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View Full Version : TX Student Suspended for removing Mexican flag hung in H.S.


rockdawg21
05-11-2010, 04:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO8MGmoVgGU&feature=popular

This is f'ed up. The flag was taken down by the student because the Mexican flag was displayed HIGHER than all other flags in the building.

rearnakedchoke
05-11-2010, 04:33 AM
he took the flag down without talking to officials in the school and threw the flag out ... he should have been suspended ...

rockdawg21
05-11-2010, 04:52 AM
Disgusting, I can't believe for a second that you could possibly NOT defend this student's actions. This student and his mother deserve a Presidential award, however, our President is not pro-U.S. so it wouldn't have any value to any true American anyways.

Read the U.S. flag code:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000007----000-.html

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag’s own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.
(a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (i) of this section.
(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.
(d) The flag of the United States of America, when it is displayed with another flag against a wall from crossed staffs, should be on the right, the flag’s own right, and its staff should be in front of the staff of the other flag.
(e) The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs.
(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag’s right.
(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.
(h) When the flag of the United States is displayed from a staff projecting horizontally or at an angle from the window sill, balcony, or front of a building, the union of the flag should be placed at the peak of the staff unless the flag is at half-staff. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from a house to a pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out, union first, from the building.
(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag’s own right, that is, to the observer’s left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.
(j) When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in a north and south street.
(k) When used on a speaker’s platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman’s or speaker’s right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience.
(l) The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statue or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statue or monument.
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia. When the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, or the Mayor of the District of Columbia, issues a proclamation under the preceding sentence that the National flag be flown at half-staff in that State, territory, or possession or in the District of Columbia because of the death of a member of the Armed Forces, the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area covered by that proclamation shall be flown at half-staff consistent with that proclamation. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection—
(1) the term “half-staff” means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;
(2) the term “executive or military department” means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and
(3) the term “Member of Congress” means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.
(n) When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground.
(o) When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag to the observer’s left upon entering. If the building has more than one main entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in more than two directions, the union should be to the east.

flo
05-11-2010, 05:30 AM
In the US, the flag of another country cannot fly higher than the US flag. I'm glad he took it down. Can you imagine for one second the shoe being on the other foot??

I haven't been so steamed for a long time as I was tonight watching the same kids from that CA high school, still "marching" against the kids who wore the flag on the 5th of May, rip the US flag out of someone's hand who was driving by and throw it on the ground. Both my husband's and my dad bled for that flag and I personally wanted to inflict some bodily harm on that jerk. This kind of stuff would NEVER fly in Mexico and yet some people here defend it! I'm sick of this and I've had enough!
:angry:

donaldbreland
05-11-2010, 05:53 AM
he took the flag down without talking to officials in the school and threw the flag out ... he should have been suspended ...

You know what? You are a sick human being. This is the United States of America. There should be no rights to fly another flag in this Country except for the American Flag. This kid shouldn't be suspended. He should be awarded.

I am sick and tired of people on here defending other people when they harm this great Country. I don't know how you were raised but I was brought up to love, cherish and honor my Country. Not degrade it by defending people who intend to harm us.

logrus
05-11-2010, 10:56 AM
You know what? You are a sick human being. This is the United States of America. There should be no rights to fly another flag in this Country except for the American Flag. This kid shouldn't be suspended. He should be awarded.

I am sick and tired of people on here defending other people when they harm this great Country. I don't know how you were raised but I was brought up to love, cherish and honor my Country. Not degrade it by defending people who intend to harm us.

Welcome to America, this is only a great country when they need or want something otherwise piss on it an those who bled for it, or swore the oath to protect it.

There are flag codes, but sadly nothing enforceable.

rearnakedchoke
05-11-2010, 12:51 PM
i am not saying the flag should have come down, but there are ways of going about doing it ... taking down the flag of any country and throwing it in the trash isn't acceptable .. but maybe that is just me ...

rearnakedchoke
05-11-2010, 12:53 PM
You know what? You are a sick human being. This is the United States of America. There should be no rights to fly another flag in this Country except for the American Flag. This kid shouldn't be suspended. He should be awarded.

I am sick and tired of people on here defending other people when they harm this great Country. I don't know how you were raised but I was brought up to love, cherish and honor my Country. Not degrade it by defending people who intend to harm us.

you are right, i am not feeling so great today ... donald, i agree with the flag not being above the american one, but i don't agree that the kid did it on his own and threw the mexican flag in the garbage ... it's not his property to touch and destroy ..

Chuck
05-11-2010, 02:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO8MGmoVgGU&feature=popular

This is f'ed up. The flag was taken down by the student because the Mexican flag was displayed HIGHER than all other flags in the building.

I agree with the school. I would have suspended the kid too. The kid was looking for attention and now he's got it. :sad:

All of this is just sensationalism at it's best. You can't possibly quote the rules for displaying a US Flag in this case. This flag was draped over a railing. There wasn't any other US flag in site. Quoting the rules is taking them completely out of context. The kid didn't like the flag being there, took it down and put it in the garbage. And you defend that????:mellow:

If a group of American students in England displayed our flag out of pride and someone threw it in the trash you wouldn't be defending that would you??

He sounded like a gung-ho ROTC kid looking for attention...

All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? :scared0011: Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......

logrus
05-11-2010, 03:41 PM
I agree with the school. I would have suspended the kid too. The kid was looking for attention and now he's got it. :sad:

All of this is just sensationalism at it's best. You can't possibly quote the rules for displaying a US Flag in this case. This flag was draped over a railing. There wasn't any other US flag in site. Quoting the rules is taking them completely out of context. The kid didn't like the flag being there, took it down and put it in the garbage. And you defend that????:mellow:

If a group of American students in England displayed our flag out of pride and someone threw it in the trash you wouldn't be defending that would you??

He sounded like a gung-ho ROTC kid looking for attention...

All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? :scared0011: Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......

I didnt fight in no wars, but I did my enlisted time. An to be honest I don't mind when others drape themselves in the colors I swore to protect. I did work when I was younger for Vietnam vets, they wore the flag on shirts and bandannas and hats. Proud for what it stood for, and most of all proud of those who fell to protect it.

Sad we find it acceptable to fly another countries colors in our schools and yet our very own flag is being pulled from the same classrooms, things like the Pledge of Allegiance has been done away with because some immigrant was offended.

flo
05-11-2010, 06:22 PM
All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? :scared0011: Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......
You don't need to lecture me. I know very well the proper flag etiquette. I'm sick of seeing the Mexican flag (or any other flag) flown in our American schools. I've watched this sort of thing go on for years and I've finally reached the point where I'm sick of it.

Chuck
05-11-2010, 07:55 PM
You don't need to lecture me. I know very well the proper flag etiquette. I'm sick of seeing the Mexican flag (or any other flag) flown in our American schools. I've watched this sort of thing go on for years and I've finally reached the point where I'm sick of it.


Where exactly was I lecturing you????? I quoted Rock the OP not you.

1) The Mexican flag wasn't being "flown" it was being displayed. If you know proper flag etiquette as you say then you should be able to recognize the difference.

2) You've "watched" this sort of thing go on for years? Where? Name me 1 school in Washington state that has a Mexican flag flown outside of it? Heck name me 1 in the United States.

flo
05-11-2010, 08:03 PM
Lecturing:

All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......

Pardon me for saying "flown" rather than "displayed". It's my OPINION that no flag of another country should be "displayed" without the American flag above it.

I wasn't talking about Washington schools, I was talking about the disrespect towards our flag which seems to be on the increase, if possible. Like the incident I posted about on last night's news and the link I provided here a week ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

flo
05-11-2010, 08:05 PM
"This sort of thing" = disrespect for our flag.

I will try to be more clear in my posting.

Chuck
05-11-2010, 08:27 PM
Lecturing:



Pardon me for saying "flown" rather than "displayed". It's my OPINION that no flag of another country should be "displayed" without the American flag above it.

I wasn't talking about Washington schools, I was talking about the disrespect towards our flag which seems to be on the increase, if possible. Like the incident I posted about on last night's news and the link I provided here a week ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

To me, the incident in your video and the video in this thread from Rock are completely different instances. I love my country, consider myself a Patriot and in the case of your video would have done the exact same thing.

A Mexican flag hanging from a wall in a HS hallway or commons area is a different situation IMO.

flo
05-11-2010, 08:38 PM
To me, the incident in your video and the video in this thread from Rock are completely different instances. I love my country, consider myself a Patriot and in the case of your video would have done the exact same thing.

A Mexican flag hanging from a wall in a HS hallway or commons area is a different situation IMO.

I see what you're saying, Chuck.

Today a friend posted a pictorial commemorating the 35th anniversary (4/30) of the fall of Saigon; it made me feel very emotional and I brought some of those feelings to this thread. I didn't intend to get so heated up, I apologize.

Spiritwalker
05-11-2010, 08:39 PM
As far as wearing the flag..

I feel that this has become accecptable over the years. I take great pride in a few shirts I have and a custom jacket I painted when i was in high school.

While I understand that some people back Section 8d. reads, "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."

But I belive that this has come to stand for pride in our country.

Not saying that people who back Section 8d are wrong, just that I feel different.

donaldbreland
05-11-2010, 08:55 PM
If you are proud of your heritage then go back to wear you came from. I am prod to be an American so I love our Flag. I do not have a problem with someone from another Country moving here as long as they are proud to want to be an American. We should not display any other flag but ours in this Country. Bottom Line.

Tyburn
05-11-2010, 09:03 PM
You know, its not what he did it but the way he did it.

If I had been him, I would have pointed it out to the head, and asked for it to be rectified...on refusal, I'd have gone to the press.

THEN the School would be in the shyte and not the pupil (at least not quite so much) :)

I mentioned Flag Codes in the other thread I think....I got one when I bought my U.S flag...I actually have a St George on the way soon...but I dont think it will come with a copy of any code...Couldnt see one in the shop I found it in (incidently...its only on sale because of the Football World Cup....)

Tyburn
05-11-2010, 09:07 PM
All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? :scared0011: Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......

:angry: Read again! because I did...anbd I'm not even American. Trust you to be selective in noticing...or does it not count because it came from a "Brit" :rolleyes:

Chuck
05-11-2010, 09:26 PM
:angry: Read again! because I did...anbd I'm not even American. Trust you to be selective in noticing...or does it not count because it came from a "Brit" :rolleyes:

:angry: Read again! because you're an idiot and you're not even an American! Everything really does have to be about you doesn't it Dave? The "none of you" I was referring to were the people who had actually posted in THIS thread when I had made that comment.

:doh:

Tyburn
05-11-2010, 09:29 PM
:angry: Read again! because you're an idiot and you're not even an American! Everything really does have to be about you doesn't it Dave? The "none of you" I was referring to were the people who had actually posted in THIS thread when I had made that comment.

:doh:

You should write with more clarity.

Dont call me names Chuck. Thats Rude, and we dont do that here

Chuck
05-11-2010, 09:47 PM
You should write with more clarity.

Dont call me names Chuck. Thats Rude, and we dont do that here

Wow Dave! Is it the battle of the font size now???

No further clarity on my part is necessary... perhaps a little more common sense on your part is.

A thread is much like a conversation and in this case you hadn't yet inserted yourself into it so I think my intent was pretty clearly to those who had posted in the thread.

If we don't have rudeness here perhaps you should lead by example. I'm pretty sure a post that starts with ":angry: Read again! would be rude by most peoples definition.

Chuck
05-11-2010, 09:49 PM
I see what you're saying, Chuck.

Today a friend posted a pictorial commemorating the 35th anniversary (4/30) of the fall of Saigon; it made me feel very emotional and I brought some of those feelings to this thread. I didn't intend to get so heated up, I apologize.

No apology necessary. I still love ya sister!

Tyburn
05-11-2010, 09:49 PM
Wow Dave! Is it the battle of the font size now???


:laugh: And I do Colour :laugh:

J.B.
05-11-2010, 10:02 PM
Seeing the flag on clothing and as part of advertisements has basically become commonplace. Most people don't even realize that it's against the "code" and they just want to be patriotic, so I don't get too mad about seeing it on certain things. However, the flag should never be on anything that is going to be thrown in the trash, like paper plates or napkins. I'm not a fan of that.

Chuck
05-11-2010, 10:04 PM
:laugh: And I do Colour :laugh:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

NateR
05-11-2010, 10:14 PM
All of this "respect" for our flag and none of you complained in the other thread of 5 young men with flags on as clothing?? :scared0011: Ask a Vet someday what they think about clothing made to look like our flag......

I'm a veteran and I'm fine with it; but it depends on the intent of the wearer.

However, using the American flag as inspiration for clothing design is very different from actually wearing an American flag as clothing.

A t-shirt with an American flag print on it, is designed to be worn like a t-shirt, so wearing it is not disrespecting the flag. However, if I were to take an actual American flag, cut it up and sew it into a t-shirt, then that would be disrespectful.

A silkscreened print of an American flag is no more a real American flag than the digital photo of our flag on the banner of this website. Claiming otherwise would be like claiming that that is actually Matt Hughes up there and not just a photograph of Matt Hughes.:)

In the military mind, our flag is more than just a piece of cloth and it's definitely more than just a set of colors. Each American flag is a living thing and should be treated with the same amount of respect as you would treat a human being.

logrus
05-11-2010, 10:47 PM
I'm a veteran and I'm fine with it; but it depends on the intent of the wearer.

However, using the American flag as inspiration for clothing design is very different from actually wearing an American flag as clothing.

A t-shirt with an American flag print on it, is designed to be worn like a t-shirt, so wearing it is not disrespecting the flag. However, if I were to take an actual American flag, cut it up and sew it into a t-shirt, then that would be disrespectful.

A silkscreened print of an American flag is no more a real American flag than the digital photo of our flag on the banner of this website. Claiming otherwise would be like claiming that that is actually Matt Hughes up there and not just a photograph of Matt Hughes.:)

In the military mind, our flag is more than just a piece of cloth and it's definitely more than just a set of colors. Each American flag is a living thing and should be treated with the same amount of respect as you would treat a human being.

Glad you agree with me on this one lil buddy..

logrus
05-11-2010, 10:48 PM
Seeing the flag on clothing and as part of advertisements has basically become commonplace. Most people don't even realize that it's against the "code" and they just want to be patriotic, so I don't get too mad about seeing it on certain things. However, the flag should never be on anything that is going to be thrown in the trash, like paper plates or napkins. I'm not a fan of that.

Hey old man, glad your with me on this one.....

flo
05-11-2010, 10:51 PM
No apology necessary. I still love ya sister!

Ditto!

:happydancing:

NateR
05-12-2010, 12:01 AM
Glad you agree with me on this one lil buddy..

Hey, when you're right, you're right. :)

logrus
05-12-2010, 12:50 AM
Hey, when you're right, you're right. :)

Which doesn't happen to me very often. :laugh:

J.B.
05-12-2010, 01:18 AM
Hey old man, glad your with me on this one.....

Not quite yet, but I'm working on it! :laugh:

I definitely agree with you on this one though.

Rev
05-12-2010, 03:22 AM
Hey, just vote for "Shoots like a girl" in 2012 and we will fix all this nonsense.

Neezar
05-12-2010, 12:06 PM
I'm a veteran and I'm fine with it; but it depends on the intent of the wearer.

However, using the American flag as inspiration for clothing design is very different from actually wearing an American flag as clothing.

A t-shirt with an American flag print on it, is designed to be worn like a t-shirt, so wearing it is not disrespecting the flag. However, if I were to take an actual American flag, cut it up and sew it into a t-shirt, then that would be disrespectful.

A silkscreened print of an American flag is no more a real American flag than the digital photo of our flag on the banner of this website. Claiming otherwise would be like claiming that that is actually Matt Hughes up there and not just a photograph of Matt Hughes.:)

In the military mind, our flag is more than just a piece of cloth and it's definitely more than just a set of colors. Each American flag is a living thing and should be treated with the same amount of respect as you would treat a human being.

Hooray for common sense! :happydancing:

Spiritwalker
05-12-2010, 12:46 PM
However, using the American flag as inspiration for clothing design is very different from actually wearing an American flag as clothing.

Excellent point. I wish more people could understand the difference.

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm a veteran and I'm fine with it; but it depends on the intent of the wearer.

However, using the American flag as inspiration for clothing design is very different from actually wearing an American flag as clothing.

A t-shirt with an American flag print on it, is designed to be worn like a t-shirt, so wearing it is not disrespecting the flag. However, if I were to take an actual American flag, cut it up and sew it into a t-shirt, then that would be disrespectful.

A silkscreened print of an American flag is no more a real American flag than the digital photo of our flag on the banner of this website. Claiming otherwise would be like claiming that that is actually Matt Hughes up there and not just a photograph of Matt Hughes.:)

In the military mind, our flag is more than just a piece of cloth and it's definitely more than just a set of colors. Each American flag is a living thing and should be treated with the same amount of respect as you would treat a human being.

More then that. Each Flag Can be thought of AS America, so its a very important living thing...its whats known as the personification, or embodiement of the National Spirit.

You have a Document and a Standard, We have a living Person and a Standard.

I think that the flag code is strictly talking about flags...not the immitation of the standard...although, like JB said...I'd try and avoid putting the imprint on stuff that will be tossed in the bin...that just doesnt sit right...but then for me, neither does burning old flags...and indeed certain regimental standards dont get burned...they get retired by being hung somewhere else. For example the Middlesex Chapel at Saint Paul's Cathedral has lots of banners...and they remain until they naturally fall apart...and they do, over time, naturally fall to pieces until there is nothing left...but these flags are not like the flags that I bought at Wal-Mart when I was with you....These Standards are actually tapestry...not plastic...but embellished and embossed Fabric...eventually they fall apart where the plastic ones dont. These Standards you dont see very often, and they will usually never "fly" from a pole...they are the kind of Standards that you would process with, they are Ceremonial Flags, when they are not in use they tend to be in chapels, or churches, or stores on Military bases and the likes.

Spiritwalker
05-12-2010, 01:53 PM
Some people find that this image is offensive for some reason.

Opinions?

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84022445.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=01CA24CC2899D98A112ED5CAF50ED7CA9C2221730A9B60F2 79FCC84F1A29D7D1E30A760B0D811297

NateR
05-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Some people find that this image is offensive for some reason.

Opinions?

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84022445.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=01CA24CC2899D98A112ED5CAF50ED7CA9C2221730A9B60F2 79FCC84F1A29D7D1E30A760B0D811297

Yeah, that's not cool. :no:

Spiritwalker
05-12-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah, that's not cool. :no:

ok, why?

an athelete who competes while repersenting his country.. and competes with honor... drapes themseleves in the flag of the country they love...

it's not really "wearing"

NateR
05-12-2010, 08:31 PM
ok, why?

an athelete who competes while repersenting his country.. and competes with honor... drapes themseleves in the flag of the country they love...

it's not really "wearing"

Because the flag is not a towel or a blanket. By wrapping himself in the flag, he is placing himself in a position of importance above the flag. Not cool.

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 08:41 PM
ok, why?

an athelete who competes while repersenting his country.. and competes with honor... drapes themseleves in the flag of the country they love...

it's not really "wearing"

Its about the rules of Ettiquette, which are in place to cover due respect.

Something, any item, seen in some way as Sacred, should be handled with only the deepest of reverence. Its really to be observed and not to be handled at all....and far from being diluted...the longer the History, the more the flag really, because it has stood at more momentous occasions, appeared in more places, seen more history, experienced more, been cherished and loved by more.

The Flag is consistant, when everything around it changes, Governmental Administrations enter, and exit...but its almost certainly the same flag that looks down upon them all.

Thats why The Queen can be thought of as a person, representing 80 odd years...or, more properly, she is the continuation of more then Two Thousand Years of Reigning Monarchs...in a very real sense, she carries that, and all that has been with that, around with her...she is thus roundabout 2500 years old in the complete sum of her parts

No matter how excited or patriotic you get...there are things you do not do, because far from exaulting, you end up disgracing, or making a mockery. You should never actually touch the Standard, unless you are one of the few whose job it is to physically attach it, replace, repair, or unceremoniously transport it. If You must carry the flag, then you carry it on a long pole.

Dignity Spiritwalker :laugh:

Spiritwalker
05-12-2010, 08:46 PM
Its about the rules of Ettiquette, which are in place to cover due respect.

Something, any item, seen in some way as Sacred, should be handled with only the deepest of reverence. Its really to be observed and not to be handled at all....and far from being diluted...the longer the History, the more the flag really, because it has stood at more momentous occasions, appeared in more places, seen more history, experienced more, been cherished and loved by more.

The Flag is consistant, when everything around it changes, Governmental Administrations enter, and exit...but its almost certainly the same flag that looks down upon them all.

Thats why The Queen can be thought of as a person, representing 80 odd years...or, more properly, she is the continuation of more then Two Thousand Years of Reigning Monarchs...in a very real sense, she carries that, and all that has been with that, around with her...she is thus roundabout 2500 years old in the complete sum of her parts

No matter how excited or patriotic you get...there are things you do not do, because far from exaulting, you end up disgracing, or making a mockery. You should never actually touch the Standard, unless you are one of the few whose job it is to physically attach it, replace, repair, or unceremoniously transport it. If You must carry the flag, then you carry it on a long pole.

Dignity Spiritwalker :laugh:

It's funny you.. oh never mind....Please refrain from telling me what "you don't do".

And how I touch my Standard is my business. No matter the legnth of the pole.

Spiritwalker
05-12-2010, 08:48 PM
Because the flag is not a towel or a blanket. By wrapping himself in the flag, he is placing himself in a position of importance above the flag. Not cool.

I see your point. But I tend to think that it's show a devotion to your country.. maybe similiar to a "church offical" donning their vestments. But I do see what you mean.

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 08:55 PM
Please refrain from telling me what "you don't do".

And how I touch my Standard is my business.

Its not your standard...I think thats the point you, and the guy in that picture are missunderstanding...The Standard doesnt belong to anyone, it stands alone, it is, for want of a better phrase, "set a side"

True Soverignty only belongs to GOD, the Standard is HIS Seal for Your Nation. Its Virtually Sacred, The Physicals ones used in Ceremony/or hoisted at Prominat places may well even be Consecrated. Do you actually understand what that means? Do you understand that there is real power in Consecration.

Its Consecrated like the Ark of the Covernant was Consecrated...and you know the story about the man who tried to touch the Ark of The Covernant....Even to steady it, even for what he though was perfectly justifiable and dignified reasons?

He Died.


It isnt an object you can own, it doesnt belong to you, its a gift, its a blessing, its everything your Nation is, was, and ever will be.

Its a Relic. Its an important artifact, what is symbolises is more important then you alone.

This isnt just aimed at you, its aimed at all people and all National Standards...You dont have to listen to me...but I have the right to make this truth known.

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 08:57 PM
maybe similiar to a "church offical" donning their vestments. But I do see what you mean.

Priests are ORDAINED!

If YOU tried to Don Vestments that would be unacceptable...unless you are in ordained ministry.

So its not similar at all.

Vestments, are also put on in a certain order, whilst certain specific prayers are said by the one putting them on. Its a solomn venture. something you dont seem to be understanding

VCURamFan
05-12-2010, 09:03 PM
Priests are ORDAINED!

If YOU tried to Don Vestments that would be unacceptable...unless you are in ordained ministry.

So its not similar at all.

Vestments, are also put on in a certain order, whilst certain specific prayers are said by the one putting them on. Its a solomn venture. something you dont seem to be understanding
Just to play Devil's Advocate here for a sec:

Couldn't one argue that an Olympic Athlete has be ordained by their country to represent them? Hence allowing them the right to wear the clothes of office (i.e. the flag)?

NOTE: I'm arguing that it's acceptable, simply following up on the Daves' example. I guess the philosopher in me got excited at the chance for a thought experiment! :laugh: :ashamed:

NateR
05-12-2010, 09:04 PM
I see your point. But I tend to think that it's show a devotion to your country.. maybe similiar to a "church offical" donning their vestments. But I do see what you mean.

Well, church vestments are intended to be donned. Flags are not.

The accomplishments of athletes are less than insignificant when compared to the accomplishments of our soldiers and you would NEVER see a US soldier wrapping the flag around their body after a big battle to show their "devotion" to their country. They would properly honor the flag by raising it high and proud above the battlefield.

NateR
05-12-2010, 09:06 PM
Just to play Devil's Advocate here for a sec:

Couldn't one argue that an Olympic Athlete has be ordained by their country to represent them? Hence allowing them the right to wear the clothes of office (i.e. the flag)?

No. Running some silly race or throwing a stick into the ground is simply not important enough to consider them "ordained."

VCURamFan
05-12-2010, 09:14 PM
Well, church vestments are intended to be donned. Flags are not.

The accomplishments of athletes are less than insignificant when compared to the accomplishments of our soldiers and you would NEVER see a US soldier wrapping the flag around their body after a big battle to show their "devotion" to their country. They would properly honor the flag by raising it high and proud above the battlefield.OK, yes, this I agree with. Which I suppose makes sense since the only time that an American Flag is "worn" is when it's draped open the coffin of a fallen warrior.

No. Running some silly race or throwing a stick into the ground is simply not important enough to consider them "ordained."
Hahahahaha, sig worthy!!! :happy0198:

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Just to play Devil's Advocate here for a sec:

Couldn't one argue that an Olympic Athlete has be ordained by their country to represent them? Hence allowing them the right to wear the clothes of office (i.e. the flag)?

NOTE: I'm arguing that it's acceptable, simply following up on the Daves' example. I guess the philosopher in me got excited at the chance for a thought experiment! :laugh: :ashamed:

Yes you could argue that. The difference is that Vestments are Litugical Items of Clothing designed to be worn by those in Orders...Now the Flag is not designed to be worn by anyone...its not a Patriotic Vestment

I guess it could qualify them to be Standard Bearers...which you will notice is chosen prior to the opening ceremony. There will be a chosen Athlete to march ahead of the other Athletes carrying the Standard...but he wont carry it on his shoulders of clothing...he will carry it Ceremoniously, on the end of a pole.

You could I suppose go as far as saying that Athletes should be allowed/or presented with a Standard if they gain a medal, in the same way that the Family of a Deceased Military person will be presented with the Funerial Paal (which is often the Standard) But in that case...they would accept it in the same way...That is, nice and folder, and they wont then unfold it and wrap themselves up in it.

They might go home and attach it to their flag pole, or they might keep it in a display box or some other mounted fashion.

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 09:42 PM
No. Running some silly race or throwing a stick into the ground is simply not important enough to consider them "ordained."

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Tyburn
05-12-2010, 09:51 PM
OK, yes, this I agree with. Which I suppose makes sense since the only time that an American Flag is "worn" is when it's draped open the coffin of a fallen warrior.


The Standard here is not actually acting as a Standard primarily, its acting as a Liturgical Vestment :ninja: Its called a Funeral Pall

Thats a latin derivertive for Coat. So the Standard is actually primarily called an Item of Clothing...Even then, you will notice, it is not the same as a Shroud, the Body itself never comes into physical contact with the Standard...not ever.

There is no Rules on what colour a funerial Pall can be, thats why you can get away with making a Standard become a Pall. So its user discretion. Anyone may have a Pall if they want...some may even have two depending on the Catafalque...and I guess what it is, is up to whoever is presiding at the Funeral.

At Saint Paul's Cathedral, they had a Heavenly Purple Pall...it was...to die for :laugh:

atomdanger
05-13-2010, 01:17 AM
Immigrants = more fights than US citizens.

Seems like a fact.

Spiritwalker
05-13-2010, 03:18 AM
Well, church vestments are intended to be donned. Flags are not.

The accomplishments of athletes are less than insignificant when compared to the accomplishments of our soldiers and you would NEVER see a US soldier wrapping the flag around their body after a big battle to show their "devotion" to their country. They would properly honor the flag by raising it high and proud above the battlefield.

hmmmm.... I like the idea.. definitely agree there... something to think on..

Jimmy Mack
05-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Where exactly was I lecturing you????? I quoted Rock the OP not you.

1) The Mexican flag wasn't being "flown" it was being displayed. If you know proper flag etiquette as you say then you should be able to recognize the difference.

2) You've "watched" this sort of thing go on for years? Where? Name me 1 school in Washington state that has a Mexican flag flown outside of it? Heck name me 1 in the United States.

In Montebello , Ca at Montebello High School a couple years ago , some Mexican students took down the American flag and replaced it with a Mexican flag and then hung the American flag upside down beneath their flag. This incident happened on march 27, 2006, you can Google it and see the pictures and read about it.

donaldbreland
05-15-2010, 10:24 PM
In Montebello , Ca at Montebello High School a couple years ago , some Mexican students took down the American flag and replaced it with a Mexican flag and then hung the American flag upside down beneath their flag. This incident happened on march 27, 2006, you can Google it and see the pictures and read about it.

I am not saying this to you Jimmy so be don't be offended.

If you don;t like the American flag and Honor the Mexican flag more. Please do this Country a favor and Leave.

Tyburn
05-16-2010, 12:22 PM
At Saint Paul's Cathedral, they had a Heavenly Purple Pall...it was...to die for :laugh:
:) See

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4186/l24a37361dba6466ba4905e.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/l24a37361dba6466ba4905e.jpg/)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4918/l2bfa33ce994f4beab5db0b.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/l2bfa33ce994f4beab5db0b.jpg/)

We used it at the 2005 Easter Vigil, actually there is no Casket, its simply the Catafalque but in the dark it looks like both are present.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5984/le60cda86c92d4a389882cf.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/le60cda86c92d4a389882cf.jpg/)

You can see Karl Huber and Martin Warner setting up the Ikon infront of it, they had a bowl of insence infront of that two, it looked amazing when it was set up.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2990/l910c03b5036a44559f6666.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/l910c03b5036a44559f6666.jpg/)

Jimmy Mack
05-16-2010, 03:18 PM
I am not saying this to you Jimmy so be don't be offended.

If you don;t like the American flag and Honor the Mexican flag more. Please do this Country a favor and Leave.

No offense taken, I agree whole heartedly with you.

Jonlion
05-16-2010, 10:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY

How could anyone be against this!

Any countries Flag should be treated with respect.

However I can get very mixed feelings on this. Only so much pride can be staked on a Flag. Its a special thing but ultimately a flag.

Men fight a die for what that flag represents. Things have changed a little bit from when it was the ultimate disgrace to lose one colours (ie flags) or standards as battle just isn't done that way anymore.

Tyburn
05-16-2010, 10:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY

How could anyone be against this!

Any countries Flag should be treated with respect.

However I can get very mixed feelings on this. Only so much pride can be staked on a Flag. Its a special thing but ultimately a flag.

Men fight a die for what that flag represents. Things have changed a little bit from when it was the ultimate disgrace to lose one colours (ie flags) or standards as battle just isn't done that way anymore.

The Standard doesnt change. It Comes from a previous age where those things were really important.

Its easy to take that attitude with the United States...but what about Britian...its harder to do it when along with the flag, rather then another inanimate object, some have a Human Being...like Her Majesty The Queen.

Two of the Three major Branches of the British Armed Forces STILL hold the title "Royal"...and make no mistake, the other is above all Loyal to The Crown.