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J.B.
04-23-2010, 12:33 AM
Some people are pretty upset about this.

The bill would for the most part, just ramp up efforts to punish people for doing things that are ALREADY illegal. Still, the basic gist is that it would make it a crime for illegal aliens to be in the state, and it would also require police to ask for proof of citizenship or legal status if there is a reason to suspect a person is in the country illegally.

Needless to say, Mexicans in the Valley of the Sun are pissed, and they voice that displeasure by taking to the streets and waving Mexican flags.

Word of advice to you protesters; When the topic of debate is an issue pertaining to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you don't help your cause in the public eye when you gather in large groups and march through the streets waving the flag of another country. When people see that on the news, they either laugh, face-palm, get angry, or a combination of the three. Unless it's the American flag, or one of the 52 state flags, don't even go there. It's fine to be proud, but use some common sense when doing so. You are in America.

With that being said. I love Mexicans, and the culture that comes with living in the southwest US. I love Mexican food, Mexican women, and even some Mexican fighters. It just drives me nuts that when we try to address a REAL problem that is hurting our state and our country, some people try to make it a race issue and refuse to look at the bigger picture in terms of what is happening.

Buzzard
04-23-2010, 02:52 AM
Some people are pretty upset about this.

The bill would for the most part, just ramp up efforts to punish people for doing things that are ALREADY illegal. Still, the basic gist is that it would make it a crime for illegal aliens to be in the state, and it would also require police to ask for proof of citizenship or legal status if there is a reason to suspect a person is in the country illegally.

Needless to say, Mexicans in the Valley of the Sun are pissed, and they voice that displeasure by taking to the streets and waving Mexican flags.

Word of advice to you protesters; When the topic of debate is an issue pertaining to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you don't help your cause in the public eye when you gather in large groups and march through the streets waving the flag of another country. When people see that on the news, they either laugh, face-palm, get angry, or a combination of the three. Unless it's the American flag, or one of the 52 state flags, don't even go there. It's fine to be proud, but use some common sense when doing so. You are in America.

With that being said. I love Mexicans, and the culture that comes with living in the southwest US. I love Mexican food, Mexican women, and even some Mexican fighters. It just drives me nuts that when we try to address a REAL problem that is hurting our state and our country, some people try to make it a race issue and refuse to look at the bigger picture in terms of what is happening.

I think that are rightfully upset because they can be stopped based on the color of their skin alone, in a profiling action.

The links following are posted for information only, and I'm not stating that they are factual or true. I'm just posting for information.

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/20/arizonas-disgusting-new-immigration-policy-written-by-neo-nazi-sympathizer/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-17/immigration-policy-gone-loco/

I'm pretty sure they won't be targeting any white or Caucasian folks from European states or Canadians.

I'm all for securing our borders, but how do you do it without trampling on the rights of the brown folks legally living here?

J.B.
04-23-2010, 03:06 AM
I think that are rightfully upset because they can be stopped based on the color of their skin alone, in a profiling action.

The links following are posted for information only, and I'm not stating that they are factual or true. I'm just posting for information.

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/20/arizonas-disgusting-new-immigration-policy-written-by-neo-nazi-sympathizer/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-17/immigration-policy-gone-loco/

I'm pretty sure they won't be targeting any white or Caucasian folks from European states or Canadians.

I'm all for securing our borders, but how do you do it without trampling on the rights of the brown folks legally living here?

Yeah, they will be "targeting" people. Why not?

It's of a high probability that people of South American descent here in Arizona could be in this country illegally. If you don't understand that, then you don't get it. I live here, and I see it everyday. We NEED to stop the bleeding, and this state is a main source of it. When we start having an influx of GSP's coming from the north and waving a big red and white Maple-Leaf I will call them out too.

The "brown folks", as you say, who are legally living here should EMBRACE this. If they are legally here, and they went through the process, why should they endorse anybody cutting in line?

flo
04-23-2010, 03:53 AM
I just heard today a conservative estimate of a quarter million illegal aliens in a Tucson county alone.

flo
04-23-2010, 03:54 AM
I think McCain will gain some momentum in the polls with his recent strong stand on border enforcement.

Bonnie
04-23-2010, 04:07 AM
Some people are pretty upset about this.

The bill would for the most part, just ramp up efforts to punish people for doing things that are ALREADY illegal. Still, the basic gist is that it would make it a crime for illegal aliens to be in the state, and it would also require police to ask for proof of citizenship or legal status if there is a reason to suspect a person is in the country illegally.

Needless to say, Mexicans in the Valley of the Sun are pissed, and they voice that displeasure by taking to the streets and waving Mexican flags.

Word of advice to you protesters; When the topic of debate is an issue pertaining to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you don't help your cause in the public eye when you gather in large groups and march through the streets waving the flag of another country. When people see that on the news, they either laugh, face-palm, get angry, or a combination of the three. Unless it's the American flag, or one of the 52 state flags, don't even go there. It's fine to be proud, but use some common sense when doing so. You are in America.

With that being said. I love Mexicans, and the culture that comes with living in the southwest US. I love Mexican food, Mexican women, and even some Mexican fighters. It just drives me nuts that when we try to address a REAL problem that is hurting our state and our country, some people try to make it a race issue and refuse to look at the bigger picture in terms of what is happening.

It drives me nuts too. I never thought about it until now, but maybe that's their "strategy"--turn it into a "race" thing to take the spotlight off of the REAL problem and the BIGGER picture.

Local police here aren't allowed to stop people to see if they are illegal. But then an illegal kills a cop and gets sentenced to death, and hello, Mexico is in our face protesting because they don't believe in the death penalty and it's one of THEIR citizens. We appear to have no control of our southern borders, people are still coming into the country illegally, and our lilly-livered politicians just see all the votes they're going to get next election.

I've come to the conclusion that our government doesn't want to close off the southern border or stop illegal immigration. The only thing I don't know is "why". They sent two border patrol officers to prison (where I believe one got beaten) and let the drug runner go free and gave him a free pass to come and go over the border to continue his trade. :wacko: I don't get it at all.

J.B.
04-23-2010, 04:32 AM
I just heard today a conservative estimate of a quarter million illegal aliens in a Tucson county alone.

That number seems about right for Pima county.

I think McCain will gain some momentum in the polls with his recent strong stand on border enforcement.

McCain has been solid in the polls from what I've seen. I don't think Hayworth can beat him.

J.B.
04-23-2010, 04:35 AM
It drives me nuts too. I never thought about it until now, but maybe that's their "strategy"--turn it into a "race" thing to take the spotlight off of the REAL problem and the BIGGER picture.


I think the answer to that is it's just a cheap debating tactic normally used by those who either have no logical argument, or those who are just plain ignorant to begin with.

I don't give a collective group of people like this the benefit of the doubt in terms of "strategy", like I would Anderson Silva. :laugh:

flo
04-23-2010, 05:03 AM
JB, here is an article on the race from RCP a month ago. Last November Hayworth was behind 22 to 24 points; last month 7. The latest Rasmussen (Tues, I think) showed him back only 5 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/politics_nation/2010/03/hayworth_mccain_wage_war.html

Do you think that's pretty accurate?

I know, it's in your backyard, but I still think McCain is vulnerable. Did you catch that funny TV ad he released?

flo
04-23-2010, 05:06 AM
Heh, in case you missed it, here it is. :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xULUb98TNwk

flo
04-23-2010, 05:10 AM
I've come to the conclusion that our government doesn't want to close off the southern border or stop illegal immigration. The only thing I don't know is "why". They sent two border patrol officers to prison (where I believe one got beaten) and let the drug runner go free and gave him a free pass to come and go over the border to continue his trade. I don't get it at all.

I've thought about it too, Bonnie, it makes me crazy. I think the pols don't want to lose any of the Hispanic vote.

It's a good thing GWB granted clemency to Ramos and Compean. I was so angry that they actually served time! I think it was a disgrace that Bush waited until he was leaving office to commute their sentences.

flo
04-23-2010, 05:11 AM
OK, rants over. :happydancing:

Bonnie
04-23-2010, 05:13 AM
I think the answer to that is it's just a cheap debating tactic normally used by those who either have no logical argument, or those who are just plain ignorant to begin with.

I don't give a collective group of people like this the benefit of the doubt in terms of "strategy", like I would Anderson Silva. :laugh:

You stinker! :tongue0011: :laugh:

I started to put this in my previous post (for real):

JB, you put that so well! I agree with you like 99.9999999% of the time. Unfortunately, you have that blot on your record from the Anderson Silva thread. :laugh:

But, I thought, "Nooooo", it will just start that whole mess up again. :rolleyes: I tell ya, it's freaky how much we think alike. :laugh: Well, except for THAT! :laugh:

flo
04-23-2010, 05:15 AM
I agree with you like 99.9999999% of the time. Unfortunately, you have that blot on your record from the Anderson Silva thread.[/B] :laugh:



:Whistle:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

J.B.
04-23-2010, 05:22 AM
http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/smiling_big_cat.jpg

Bonnie
04-23-2010, 05:39 AM
I've thought about it too, Bonnie, it makes me crazy. I think the pols don't want to lose any of the Hispanic vote.

It's a good thing GWB granted clemency to Ramos and Compean. I was so angry that they actually served time! I think it was a disgrace that Bush waited until he was leaving office to commute their sentences.

I know, I was really shocked by that whole horrible mess. I think they should have been pardoned. I am glad they are out of prison but a commuted sentence doesn't nullify the charges. Here's some info from wiki on Ramos describing what went down in this incident and case. Note the "bolded":

Ignacio Ramos
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It has been suggested that this article or section be merged with Jose Compean. (Discuss)

Ignacio Ramos - Born 1969

Residence residence = El Paso, Texas
Occupation Former Border Patrol Agent

Ignacio Ramos is a former United States Border Patrol Agent, who shot an allegedly unarmed illegal alien and drug smuggler on the United States–Mexico border. He was convicted of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, and a civil rights violation.[1] On January 19, 2009, his sentence was commuted by President Bush and he was released on February 17, 2009.[2]

Border incident and prosecution
Ramos was found guilty by a jury and sentenced to 11 years and one day in prison for shooting a then unknown Mexican National in the buttocks, Osvaldo Aldrete Dávila, who was caught with over 800 lbs. of drugs, following his non-compliance near the Fabens settlement of unincorporated El Paso County, Texas, while Dávila ran away at about 1 PM on February 17, 2006. Fellow agent Jose Compean was sentenced to 12 years.[3] According to U.S. attorney Johnny Sutton, after the shooting the officers disposed of their shell casings, made no further attempt to apprehend the suspect, lied to their supervisors, and filed a false investigative report.[4] Aldrete Dávila had been found with nearly 800 pounds of marijuana in the back of his van. Following the incident, Aldrete Dávila was granted a temporary conditional visitor's visa in exchange for giving his testimony against Ramos and Compean. Ramos and his partner were incarcerated January 17, 2007.[5]

Homeland Security and Justice Department involvement
Congressmen Ted Poe and John Culberson indicated that the Department of Homeland Security lied to them about the case when it indicated that it had evidence that the agents "plotted and conspired that day to go out and shoot" Mexicans. Richard Skinner, Inspector General of DHS, apologized to the congressmen for misleading them.[6]

According to writer Jerome Corsi, the prosecution was initiated at the behest of the Mexican government. Some commentators have questioned Corsi's conclusions.[7]

Reactions
Aldrete Dávila has filed a $5 million lawsuit against the U.S. government, claiming that his civil rights were violated.[1]

A petition for the pardon of the border agents received nearly 240,000 signatures.[8] On January 18, 2007, President George W. Bush agreed to review the case, and Representative Duncan Hunter introduced a bill, titled the Ramos and Compean Act, that would pardon the two agents, though the United States Constitution does not grant Congress the authority to issue pardons.[9]

On 6 February 2007 Representative Tom Tancredo and Ramos' relatives reported to the Associated Press that Ramos had been beaten by fellow inmates in prison. His wife Mrs. Monica Ramos told the AP that he had "let his guard down" and been stomped and kicked for several minutes.[10]

On April 23, 2007 the border patrol union released a no-confidence resolution against Chief David V. Aguilar for his failure to back up Ramos during the case. [11] The union had also made a rebuttal responding to United States Attorney Sutton's reasons why convicting the agents was justified.[12]

The Senate Judiciary Committee examined the prosecution in July 2007 after which Senator Dianne Feinstein asked President Bush to commute the sentences.[13]

Legal appeal
On September 25, 2007 a legal appeal concerning the conviction of Ramos and Compean was filed with the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in New Orleans. On July 28, 2008 the Fifth Circuit court of appeals rejected the appeals of both Ramos and Compean.[14]

Commutation
On 19 January 2009, President Bush commuted the sentences of both Ramos and Compean, effectively ending their prison term on March 20, 2009.[15] The commutation was condemned by Mexico's Deputy Secretary for Foreign Relations Carlos Rico.

Bonnie
04-23-2010, 05:55 AM
http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/smiling_big_cat.jpg

:scared: That's scary! :laugh:

flo
04-23-2010, 06:26 AM
That picture, Yikes!

Following the incident, Aldrete Dávila was granted a temporary conditional visitor's visa in exchange for giving his testimony against Ramos and Compean.

Thanks for the info, Bonnie, I never knew about that little tidbit. Well, isn't that lovely? We truly entered another universe when this case was prosecuted. It still makes me literally sick to my stomach.

J.B.
04-23-2010, 06:42 AM
This is what I call taking a stand for our rights!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1NR7oGzcEg

Play The Man
04-23-2010, 07:47 AM
I think that are rightfully upset because they can be stopped based on the color of their skin alone, in a profiling action.

The links following are posted for information only, and I'm not stating that they are factual or true. I'm just posting for information.

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/20/arizonas-disgusting-new-immigration-policy-written-by-neo-nazi-sympathizer/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-17/immigration-policy-gone-loco/

I'm pretty sure they won't be targeting any white or Caucasian folks from European states or Canadians.

I'm all for securing our borders, but how do you do it without trampling on the rights of the brown folks legally living here?

Buzzard, the vast majority of illegal aliens are from Latin America. Why would police or the government target whites from Europe or Canada?

The profiling will not come down to skin color. It will likely be based on accent and the ability to speak English. If a cop pulls over Tito Ortiz and talks with him for 1 minute, he isn't going to suspect that he is an illegal alien, even though Ortiz is Hispanic. Same for a Hispanic like Diego Sanchez, who has a perfect American accent. However, if a cop pulls over a Hispanic speeder, and the speeder says: "No Hablo Ingles", I don't think it is racist or irrational for the police to pursue the speeders immigration status. Similarly, if I was in Europe, and had a run-in with the police, and they heard my American accent, I wouldn't feel persecuted if they asked me for my passport and visa.

Play The Man
04-23-2010, 08:04 AM
It drives me nuts too. I never thought about it until now, but maybe that's their "strategy"--turn it into a "race" thing to take the spotlight off of the REAL problem and the BIGGER picture.

Local police here aren't allowed to stop people to see if they are illegal. But then an illegal kills a cop and gets sentenced to death, and hello, Mexico is in our face protesting because they don't believe in the death penalty and it's one of THEIR citizens. We appear to have no control of our southern borders, people are still coming into the country illegally, and our lilly-livered politicians just see all the votes they're going to get next election.

I've come to the conclusion that our government doesn't want to close off the southern border or stop illegal immigration. The only thing I don't know is "why". They sent two border patrol officers to prison (where I believe one got beaten) and let the drug runner go free and gave him a free pass to come and go over the border to continue his trade. :wacko: I don't get it at all.

The last time I heard a figure, there were over 50 Mexicans (not Mexican-Americans, Mexican citizens) on U.S. death rows. Mexican and Mexican-American murderers in border states have learned that they can flee to Mexico in order to avoid the death penalty because Mexico will not extradite on death penalty cases.

The "why" is simple. Republicans are influenced by business interests like the Chamber of Commerce. Many business leaders look at illegals as cheap labor to increase profits. They can pay a low-wage for low-skilled labor. The businesses don't worry about the social costs like crime and the financial burden on government for prison, schools and emergency rooms. The tax-payer is on the hook for those costs, not the businesses. The businesses get the profits and the taxpayer pays for the costs of illegal immigration. Besides Cuban-Americans, most Hispanics vote for Democrats. Amnesty was granted to illegal aliens in 1986. The Democrats want to bring in illegal aliens by the millions and then pass an amnesty bill. Millions of new Hispanic citizens with the right to vote will give the Democrats millions of votes.

Play The Man
04-23-2010, 08:20 AM
I've thought about it too, Bonnie, it makes me crazy. I think the pols don't want to lose any of the Hispanic vote.

It's a good thing GWB granted clemency to Ramos and Compean. I was so angry that they actually served time! I think it was a disgrace that Bush waited until he was leaving office to commute their sentences.

Wait a second! I'm confused.:huh: You mean you actually care about Ramos and Compean? I thought you were against illegal immigration? Therefore, you must be a racist and hate Hispanic people.:rolleyes: Didn't you realize that Ramos and Compean were Hispanic?:wink:

Buzzard
04-23-2010, 11:54 AM
Buzzard, the vast majority of illegal aliens are from Latin America. Why would police or the government target whites from Europe or Canada?

The profiling will not come down to skin color. It will likely be based on accent and the ability to speak English. If a cop pulls over Tito Ortiz and talks with him for 1 minute, he isn't going to suspect that he is an illegal alien, even though Ortiz is Hispanic. Same for a Hispanic like Diego Sanchez, who has a perfect American accent. However, if a cop pulls over a Hispanic speeder, and the speeder says: "No Hablo Ingles", I don't think it is racist or irrational for the police to pursue the speeders immigration status. Similarly, if I was in Europe, and had a run-in with the police, and they heard my American accent, I wouldn't feel persecuted if they asked me for my passport and visa.

I'm all for securing our borders. I'm not against a speeder who has been caught breaking the law having to show his license, registration and status when he has been caught doing a crime. I'm against the profiling based solely on ones color.

When I lived in CA I was well aware of the illegal immigration problem. I remember the road signs on the 405 freeway coming home from Tijuana showing a family crossing the road and to be on the lookout for them.

If they are going to profile, how about do it to all skin colors, then I think you may have a problem with it. I've seen first hand cops profiling and detaining someone solely because of the color of their skin. It left me feeling sick.

Here is a link that talks about the other colors of illegal immigration.

http://www.hacer.org/current/US313.php

Again, I'm for securing our borders against illegals, but not willing to lose my liberty or see other legals lose theirs in the process.

I know, I was really shocked by that whole horrible mess. I think they should have been pardoned. I am glad they are out of prison but a commuted sentence doesn't nullify the charges. Here's some info from wiki on Ramos describing what went down in this incident and case. Note the "bolded":

Did you read this part of what you quoted?

3] According to U.S. attorney Johnny Sutton, after the shooting the officers disposed of their shell casings, made no further attempt to apprehend the suspect, lied to their supervisors, and filed a false investigative report.[4]

Sounds like they were trying to cover this up. I can see wanting them to not be arrested, in fact this could be a plot in the TV show "The Shield" and I would be rooting for them too.:ninja:

Mark
04-23-2010, 12:32 PM
If they are going to profile, how about do it to all skin colors, then I think you may have a problem with it. I've seen first hand cops profiling and detaining someone solely because of the color of their skin. It left me feeling sick.

What is the percentage of white people verses the percentage of hispanics that are illegal aliens? Especially near the border?

NateR
04-23-2010, 12:52 PM
I think that are rightfully upset because they can be stopped based on the color of their skin alone, in a profiling action.

Well, considering that Mexicans crossing the Mexican border into the US tend to look like Mexicans, then I fully support racial profiling in helping to slow down illegal immigration.

And before you throw out your trite and overused labels of "racist" and "xenophobe" you should realize that I have dark hair and dark eyes; so I have been stopped and had my car searched about 90% of the time that I pass through the Border Patrol stations near my parents' home in Alamogordo, NM. It's an inconvenience, but I understand why it's necessary, so I simply cooperate and I can go on my way within a few minutes.

J.B.
04-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Well, considering that Mexicans crossing the Mexican border into the US tend to look like Mexicans, then I fully support racial profiling in helping to slow down illegal immigration.


I don't think it can be put much better than that... :laugh:

Buzzard
04-23-2010, 03:59 PM
Well, considering that Mexicans crossing the Mexican border into the US tend to look like Mexicans, then I fully support racial profiling in helping to slow down illegal immigration.

And before you throw out your trite and overused labels of "racist" and "xenophobe" you should realize that I have dark hair and dark eyes; so I have been stopped and had my car searched about 90% of the time that I pass through the Border Patrol stations near my parents' home in Alamogordo, NM. It's an inconvenience, but I understand why it's necessary, so I simply cooperate and I can go on my way within a few minutes.

I only use those labels on you when appropriate.

There is a difference in what you were stopped for, and where. You say you were stopped at border patrol stations. Far different then being pulled over solely because you have dark skin and eyes. I too have been stopped when traveling near border states, not because of racial profiling though. I remember traveling across country as a kid and our camper got pulled over in New Mexico late late one night. It wasn't because of profiling then either.

Dah! Let me see your papers!

flo
04-23-2010, 05:52 PM
Wait a second! I'm confused.:huh: You mean you actually care about Ramos and Compean? I thought you were against illegal immigration? Therefore, you must be a racist and hate Hispanic people.:rolleyes: Didn't you realize that Ramos and Compean were Hispanic?:wink:

LOL! :)

Great points previously, PTM.

flo
04-23-2010, 05:53 PM
This is what I call taking a stand for our rights!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1NR7oGzcEg

I love that, I'm stealing it now!

Must be part meerkat!

Miss Foxy
04-23-2010, 06:01 PM
Funny thing is a whole lotta 'Mexicans" don't even look dark hair/dark eyes. :laugh:.. My ex's family for example.. White skin, blue eyes, and red/blonde hair.. This is hilarious..Now I feel like eating some taquitos darn it!+

J.B.
04-24-2010, 12:16 AM
Gov. Brewer signed the bill today, and it takes effect in 90 days.

They are going to send all officers to a training course that teaches them specifically what constitutes reasonable suspicion that a person could be in the country illegally.

So what do people do today? They take to the streets and throw things at police officers and people that disagree with them like a bunch of savages. Downtown PHX is filled with police in riot gear, this is ridiculous. They should enact the law right now and start asking the people down there for their paperwork.

For real, all this crying about "profiling" is just a bunch of crap. It's not as if having to show your proof of ID and legal status is as big of an inconvenience as having all these illegal aliens in this country is.

NateR
04-24-2010, 02:26 AM
It's not as if having to show your proof of ID and legal status is as big of an inconvenience as having all these illegal aliens in this country is.

Exactly, and I think the first people that should be required to provide proof of US citizenship are the ones protesting against this bill by waving Mexican flags around. Then they should stop every car with a Mexican flag bumper sticker.

After that, they can just drive around and look for the houses with cars parked on their lawn. :laugh:

flo
04-24-2010, 02:33 AM
They are going to send all officers to a training course that teaches them specifically what constitutes reasonable suspicion that a person could be in the country illegally.

So what do people do today? They take to the streets and throw things at police officers and people that disagree with them like a bunch of savages. Downtown PHX is filled with police in riot gear, this is ridiculous. They should enact the law right now and start asking the people down there for their paperwork.

For real, all this crying about "profiling" is just a bunch of crap. It's not as if having to show your proof of ID and legal status is as big of an inconvenience as having all these illegal aliens in this country is.

This is the most common sense I have heard on the topic all week long.

flo
04-24-2010, 02:42 AM
I have to admit to feeling some smug satisfaction that she signed the bill following BO's comments.

The signing came just a few hours after President Obama harshly criticized the legislation, calling it "misguided." The president also instructed the Justice Department to examine the Arizona law to see if it would violate civil rights.


Obama criticized the bill at a naturalization ceremony in the White House Rose Garden for active duty service members from 24 countries.

The president said if Congress fails to enact comprehensive immigration reform at the national level, "We will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."

Never mind how Robert Krentz's civil rights were violated...

J.B.
04-24-2010, 02:54 AM
They are saying on the news that one of the "protesters" tried to steal an Ice Cream cart during the commotion and when the cops were arresting him the other protesters thought he was being harassed about his citizenship, so they starting throwing bottles of water at the cops. It looked like a riot scene.

This is the mentality of people....unbelievable. :laugh:

And I am supposed to feel bad about cops asking people to prove they are here legally? :rolleyes:

J.B.
04-24-2010, 03:03 AM
I have to admit to feeling some smug satisfaction that she signed the bill following BO's comments.



Never mind how Robert Krentz's civil rights were violated...

Not only Mr. Krentz, but a lot of other people in this state, and all over the southwest. This state has bent over backwards for years trying to find a reasonable way to deal with the problem, and nothing has really been done on a federal level.

I will give Obama credit for acknowledging that the reason this legislation came to fruition was because of the federal government's failure to act on the issue, but he is just pandering to his liberal base when he calls the efforts misguided. What is misguided about telling our LAW ENFORCEMENT officers to do their job and ENFORCE LAWS? We didn't rewrite the immigration laws, we just gave our cops the power to enforce them. Simple as that.

NateR
04-24-2010, 03:27 AM
I only use those labels on you when appropriate.

Well, they are never appropriate because neither of them apply to me. You just make yourself look like a fool when you use them.

There is a difference in what you were stopped for, and where. You say you were stopped at border patrol stations. Far different then being pulled over solely because you have dark skin and eyes. I too have been stopped when traveling near border states, not because of racial profiling though. I remember traveling across as a kid and our camper got pulled over in New Mexico late late one night. It wasn't because of profiling then either.

Wrong. Racial profiling is the only way that the Border Patrol can effectively do it's job along the Mexican border. When you drive through the Border Patrol checkpoints, they take a look at the driver and passengers and will usually wave non-Hispanic looking families through. Since I had dark hair and dark eyes and I was driving by myself, I was usually stopped and searched.

It happened so much that I remember specifically asking Mark to ride back across the border with me, on our way back from the Rancho3M orphanage in 2006, because I knew that having someone riding along who was unmistakably Caucasian would make it much easier to get through the border checkpoints, than if I was just riding by myself.

Dah! Let me see your papers!

Enforcing our immigration laws makes us Nazi Germany? :rolleyes:

I think you dropped your credibility back there, you might want to go pick that up.

mscomc
04-24-2010, 03:31 AM
I have always wondered something, maybe you guys can help me out.

Whenever I have watched CNN (or some other program) that is showing some kind of rally or protest in favour of NOT denying illegal aliens the american dream, many of the demonstrators are yelling out and holding signs and even telling news crew that they are illegal (well not right to the camera of course).

Are the police (or other law enforcement) NOT allowed to go down to these protests and start arresting anyone without papers, or documents etc ???

NateR
04-24-2010, 03:39 AM
NOT denying illegal aliens the american dream,

I'm all for denying ILLEGAL immigrants the American dream. Especially when they clearly don't want the American dream and they just come over here to leach off of American taxpayers.

If they are truly interested in pursuing the American dream, then they can legally immigrate to this country, become naturalized citizens, and toss those Mexican flags in the garbage.

As for why those people admitting their illegal status on camera aren't deported. That just shows how badly tied the hands of our law enforcement officials have been by the Liberal idiots in this country.

mscomc
04-24-2010, 03:40 AM
I'm all for denying ILLEGAL immigrants the American dream. Especially when they clearly don't want the American dream and they just come over here to leach off of American taxpayers.

If they are truly interested in pursuing the American dream, then they can legally immigrate to this country, become naturalized citizens, and toss those Mexican flags in the garbage.

I agree with you.

I was just wondering about the second part of my post....you haven't noticed such things when watching the news? maybe its just me.


**** oops my bad, i saw the second part of your post......my BAD :)

NateR
04-24-2010, 03:41 AM
I agree with you.

I was just wondering about the second part of my post....you haven't noticed such things when watching the news? maybe its just me.

I realized that I forgot to answer your question, so I edited it into my post. :ashamed:

mscomc
04-24-2010, 03:43 AM
I realized that I forgot to answer your question, so I edited it into my post. :ashamed:

Ahhhh the beauties of the edit function :laugh:

flo
04-24-2010, 03:51 AM
Not only Mr. Krentz, but a lot of other people in this state, and all over the southwest. This state has bent over backwards for years trying to find a reasonable way to deal with the problem, and nothing has really been done on a federal level.

I will give Obama credit for acknowledging that the reason this legislation came to fruition was because of the federal government's failure to act on the issue, but he is just pandering to his liberal base when he calls the efforts misguided. What is misguided about telling our LAW ENFORCEMENT officers to do their job and ENFORCE LAWS? We didn't rewrite the immigration laws, we just gave our cops the power to enforce them. Simple as that.

I hear you, JB. The Krentz murder really personalized the whole issue for me. He looked a lot like my uncle and it was just so frickin' SENSELESS!

Buzzard
04-24-2010, 04:51 AM
Well, they are never appropriate because neither of them apply to me. You just make yourself look like a fool when you use them.

No, you make yourself look like the fool when spouting things that make you look like the labels I place upon you.:wink:



Wrong. Racial profiling is the only way that the Border Patrol can effectively do it's job along the Mexican border. When you drive through the Border Patrol checkpoints, they take a look at the driver and passengers and will usually wave non-Hispanic looking families through. Since I had dark hair and dark eyes and I was driving by myself, I was usually stopped and searched.

Like I said before, you weren't stopped solely because you were of a different color. You were stopped at a border patrol checkpoint. Big difference. What's that quote that a lot of the members here have quoted? Oh yeah, Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


It happened so much that I remember specifically asking Mark to ride back across the border with me, on our way back from the Rancho3M orphanage in 2006, because I knew that having someone riding along who was unmistakably Caucasian would make it much easier to get through the border checkpoints, than if I was just riding by myself.

What's to stop a Canadian from illegally entering the U.S. via the southern borders? Mark could have been mistaken for a Canadian. They should have stopped you twice then!:laugh:



Enforcing our immigration laws makes us Nazi Germany? :rolleyes:

I think you dropped your credibility back there, you might want to go pick that up.

Nothing dropped there. I'm don't wish to give up any liberty for a temporary sense of security. I equate the stopping of someone on the street solely for checking papers with illegal search and seizure. It's a fishing expedition. I'll be surprised if there is no backlash because of this.

Seeing as how the link I provided shows that 25% of illegal immigrants aren't of Hispanic origin, shouldn't they stop and question everyone in every state or in all states touching our northern and southern borders? I don't even like getting stopped at DUI checkpoints. I can't imagine how pissed I would be if I were to be continually harassed and asked to show my papers.

J.B.
04-24-2010, 04:54 AM
I hear you, JB. The Krentz murder really personalized the whole issue for me. He looked a lot like my uncle and it was just so frickin' SENSELESS!

It was senseless, and that was pretty much the last straw for a lot of folks down here.

J.B.
04-24-2010, 05:07 AM
Buzz, this legislation does not tell cops to just start stopping people on the street or pulling them over for no reason just to check their legal status.

It does however give them the power to inquire if they feel that the person in question could be here illegally, and forces those who are NOT citizens to carry their legal documentation at all times. What is WRONG with that?

I'm sorry I have to break it to you, but if I see a middle-aged Mexican guy standing on one of the street corners in downtown Mesa Arizona at 7am, it is a VERY SAFE bet to assume that he is an illegal immigrant looking for work from one of the people who drive around and hire cheap day-labor. If it bothers liberals or Mexicans, too bad. It's the truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can try to ignore common sense in exchange for "civil liberties" they feel could POTENTIALLY be violated. I mean, really...is it THAT big of a deal to just accept the fact that we need to address this problem, and it's a problem that is largely centered around ONE group of people? Just like with terrorism. When 80 year old white ladies start flying planes into buildings and threatening "jihad" on America, then we will start singling them out too.

Buzzard
04-24-2010, 05:34 AM
Buzz, this legislation does not tell cops to just start stopping people on the street or pulling them over for no reason just to check their legal status.

It does however give them the power to inquire if they feel that the person in question could be here illegally, and forces those who are NOT citizens to carry their legal documentation at all times. What is WRONG with that?

Nothing if that is actually how it will be. They shouldn't be able to violate the 4th amendment of citizens in the process.


I'm sorry I have to break it to you, but if I see a middle-aged Mexican guy standing on one of the street corners in downtown Mesa Arizona at 7am, it is a VERY SAFE bet to assume that he is an illegal immigrant looking for work from one of the people who drive around and hire cheap day-labor. If it bothers liberals or Mexicans, too bad. It's the truth.

I knew Mexican day laborers who were citizens when I lived in CA. I also knew/know Caucasians who are/were day laborers. Most would fall into the category of knew/were.

Why not target the folks hiring the illegals? It's similar to the drug war, go after the kingpin/employers. You get rid of 10 day laborers and 10 more will fill their shoes. Remove the employer from the picture and ten day laborer jobs have just vanished until another employer fills his slot. If it is illegal to hire these day laborers, then arrest the employers first. Ooh, problem though, then you would have to put a Caucasian business man in prison, assuming the businessman was Caucasian and a male.


It never ceases to amaze me how people can try to ignore common sense in exchange for "civil liberties" they feel could POTENTIALLY be violated. I mean, really...is it THAT big of a deal to just accept the fact that we need to address this problem, and it's a problem that is largely centered around ONE group of people? Just like with terrorism. When 80 year old white ladies start flying planes into buildings and threatening "jihad" on America, then we will start singling them out too.

When 25% of illegals aren't of Hispanic origin, I wouldn't say that it centered around one group of people. I could say the same to you about being amazed at one wishing to give up a portion of their liberty. Yes there is a problem, but I don't like the solution at hand. I support the 4th Amendment, and if the law can be effectively enforced without violating it, then so be it and let it stand.

J.B.
04-24-2010, 06:11 AM
This is not calling for an unreasonable search and seizure and it is not violating the 4th amendment.

Just because some legal citizens are day laborers doesn't change the fact that MOST are NOT, especially not here in AZ.

They ARE targeting people who hire day-laborers, and it is a major part of this legislation.


Now, why say something like this....

"Ooh, problem though, then you would have to put a Caucasian business man in prison"


Why are you assuming that people just want to target Mexicans because they are racist against them?

Racial profiling is not always racism. However, that point seems to get lost on liberals and those too stubborn to admit their ignorance. When a group of people don't want to accept the facts of what is happening, or they feel singled out in even the SLIGHTEST way, they cry foul and try playing the race card. and I think it's pathetic. Rather than accept the FACTS and use sound reasoning, they automatically assume that any solution purposed by conservatives must in some way be "racist". It's as if liberals automatically assume that anybody who wants to see these problems dealt with in a strict fashion must be an inbreed hillbilly waiting to go to his next clan meeting.



When 25% of illegals aren't of Hispanic origin, I wouldn't say that it centered around one group of people. I could say the same to you about being amazed at one wishing to give up a portion of their liberty. Yes there is a problem, but I don't like the solution at hand. I support the 4th Amendment, and if the law can be effectively enforced without violating it, then so be it and let it stand.

Give me a friggin break man....I'm not trying bust your chops, but this is where the fundamental differences that are never going to change come into play. All too often, liberals go off on these tangents about liberties being violated when the only reason they are doing it is because it falls in line with the typical liberal mindset, rather than actually addressing the situation logically and accepting the facts of what is happening.

In Arizona, the illegal immigration problem IS centered around one group of people. Sure, their are illegal immigrants who are of other nationalities besides Mexico, but they are the VAST majority of it, and here in Arizona I am willing to bet the number is much higher than 75%. I don't need to look it up either, because even Stevie Wonder could walk down the streets of Mesa and tell you it's over 90% Mexicans.

The bottom line is simple. The mighty Obama and the rest of the knuckleheads in Washington have ignored the problem for years, and now this state is taking matters into it's own hands. If people don't like it, they can stay out of Arizona, and take the snowbirds with them for all I care. :laugh:

NateR
04-24-2010, 06:12 AM
Ooh, problem though, then you would have to put a Caucasian business man in prison, assuming the businessman was Caucasian and a male.

This is not a race issue. You continue to destroy your credibility by trying to foolishly paint it as such.

Buzzard
04-24-2010, 07:49 AM
This is not calling for an unreasonable search and seizure and it is not violating the 4th amendment.

Just because some legal citizens are day laborers doesn't change the fact that MOST are NOT, especially not here in AZ.

They ARE targeting people who hire day-laborers, and it is a major part of this legislation.

Good for them.


Now, why say something like this....



Why are you assuming that people just want to target Mexicans because they are racist against them?

I guess my ill-fated attempt at humor/sarcasm failed to come through. Yeah, it wasn't my strongest attempt and I could have gone about it differently.


Racial profiling is not always racism. However, that point seems to get lost on liberals and those too stubborn to admit their ignorance. When a group of people don't want to accept the facts of what is happening, or they feel singled out in even the SLIGHTEST way, they cry foul and try playing the race card. and I think it's pathetic. Rather than accept the FACTS and use sound reasoning, they automatically assume that any solution purposed by conservatives must in some way be "racist". It's as if liberals automatically assume that anybody who wants to see these problems dealt with in a strict fashion must be an inbreed hillbilly waiting to go to his next clan meeting.

Racial profiling is just that, profiling someone because of their race. BTW, for the umpteenth time, I'm not a liberal. You are making broad assumptions about my thoughts. I am against the policy of illegal search and seizure and violating the 4th amendment. If they can enact this policy and not violate the 4th, I am all for it. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I have said this before and I will say it again. If they can enact the policy and not trample on the 4th amendment, great, I'm all for it.



Give me a friggin break man....I'm not trying bust your chops, but this is where the fundamental differences that are never going to change come into play. All too often, liberals go off on these tangents about liberties being violated when the only reason they are doing it is because it falls in line with the typical liberal mindset, rather than actually addressing the situation logically and accepting the facts of what is happening.

Again, I'm not a liberal. I may have some issues where I side with the liberal side, but I'm not a liberal. Just as I wouldn't classify myself as a conservative because I side with that group on other issues. I have logically addressed the situation. Play fair and don't violate the 4th and all is well.


In Arizona, the illegal immigration problem IS centered around one group of people. Sure, their are illegal immigrants who are of other nationalities besides Mexico, but they are the VAST majority of it, and here in Arizona I am willing to bet the number is much higher than 75%. I don't need to look it up either, because even Stevie Wonder could walk down the streets of Mesa and tell you it's over 90% Mexicans.

The bottom line is simple. The mighty Obama and the rest of the knuckleheads in Washington have ignored the problem for years, and now this state is taking matters into it's own hands. If people don't like it, they can stay out of Arizona, and take the snowbirds with them for all I care. :laugh:

Here is one legal battle surely to happen.

Legal challenges to Arizona's new immigration law are a certainty. As has been pointed out by numerous legal scholars, states are not authorized to enforce immigration laws in this country, and it seems inevitable that the courts - and Congress - will have something to say about this. Here in California, the anti-immigrant Proposition 187 was passed by voters but struck down by a federal judge. Karl Manheim of Loyola Law School tells Law Blog: "States have no power to pass immigration laws because it's an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can't have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can't have their own immigration laws either."

From http://www.scpr.org/blogs/business-update-mark-lacter/2010/04/23/not-so-fast-arizona-immigration-law/

Yet criticism builds. Cardinal Roger Mahony, archbishop of Los Angeles, likened the law to “German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques whereby people are required to turn one another in to the authorities”.

From http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7cd0d040-4ef9-11df-b8f4-00144feab49a.html

We differ on opinions and I accept that. If the law can be enacted without trampling on the 4th amendment, I say do it.

This is not a race issue. You continue to destroy your credibility by trying to foolishly paint it as such.

It is a race issue bundled with the immigration issue NateR, as the Hispanic race appears to be the only one targeted. How many white people do you think will be targeted? If it wasn't/isn't a race issue, the police will apply this law to any and all people, not just those appearing to be of Hispanic origin.

J.B.
04-24-2010, 08:32 AM
Racial profiling is just that, profiling someone because of their race

You are absolutely right about what racial profiling is.

However RACISM, is the belief that one race is superior to another, and that is not the case here. The only reason I pointed that out was because of your comment about arresting a white businessman.

Thats fine that you say "don't violate the 4th amendment and you will be okay with it" but in another breath you say you don't like it because we should be targeting everybody and not just Mexicans. Well, the fact is that targeting everybody when we already know the demographic is a little ridiculous. Does that mean we IGNORE other people besides Mexicans? No. It just means that Mexicans, or hispanic looking people in general, are more likely to be in this country illegally here in Arizona then in another state like Illinois for instance.

Lastly, if you don't chose to associate yourself with a side, that is fine, and I can respect that, but you should not act surprised at the fact that a lot of times your views on these topics are seen as status quo for the liberal side of things. It's like if a straight guy came walking out of a gay-bar and got mad when people assumed he was gay. Not exactly the same, but I'm sure you get the point. :laugh:

J.B.
04-24-2010, 02:41 PM
Here are some key elements of the new immigration law



-- Bars governments and agencies from limiting or restricting their employees from enforcing immigration laws "to less than the full extent permitted by federal law."

-- Requires police, where there is "reasonable suspicion" the person is an illegal immigrant, to make a "reasonable attempt ... when practicable" to determine that person's legal status.

-- Contains an exception if pursuing that inquiry "may hinder or obstruct an investigation."

-- Prohibits race, color or national origin from being the sole factor used in determining whether to pursue investigating someone's immigration status.

-- Says governments cannot prohibit their employees from sending, receiving or maintaining information about someone's immigration status to determine whether they are eligible for public benefits or services.

-- Permits any legal resident to sue if a government agency adopts any policy or practice that restricts the ability of their workers to enforce immigration laws, with judges required to impose penalties of up to $5,000 a day.

-- Effective makes it a violation of state law to be in this country illegally, linking it to the failure to have the requisite "alien registration document."

-- Makes it illegal to stop on a roadway to hire day laborers, or enter a car stopped on a roadway to get temporary work.

-- Criminalizes transporting, concealing, harboring or shielding an alien from detection if the person knows or "recklessly disregards" that the other person is in this country illegally.

http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/545b7908-f994-532b-81aa-867d051813b0.html

Buzzard
04-24-2010, 02:59 PM
Here are some key elements of the new immigration law



http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/545b7908-f994-532b-81aa-867d051813b0.html

Thanks for that info. It clears a lot up.

Bonnie
04-27-2010, 11:24 PM
Here are some key elements of the new immigration law



http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/545b7908-f994-532b-81aa-867d051813b0.html

It sounds like they are actually trying to "uphold" and "enforce" the law. Just saw all the protests with signs about "hate", blah, blah, blah, and SNL/Jon Stewart jokes (not funny!). Last night Joy Behar was saying something to the effect, "Doesn't this take away from them going after criminals...?". :rolleyes: I thought if you entered this country, or any country for that matter illegally, it was breaking the law so isn't that "criminal"?

People want to protest about their civil rights being violated.....what about the civil rights of the citizens of Arizona (and other southern states bordering Mexico) whose property and lives are being violated by these law breakers? What about the citizens who have been murdered?

WHAT ABOUT THAT!!! :angry:

J.B.
04-27-2010, 11:35 PM
It gets even better....

Now the protesters are planning to follow the Arizona Diamondbacks around at their away games and protest them, starting this week in Denver and Chicago.

That will really help their cause....protesting against a team that is part of what is considered "America's Past-time". :rolleyes:

Mexican rights groups are even calling for sports teams/leagues around the country not to come to Arizona for their sporting events.

Bonnie
04-27-2010, 11:45 PM
It gets even better....

Now the protesters are planning to follow the Arizona Diamondbacks around at their away games and protest them, starting this week in Denver and Chicago.

That will really help their cause....protesting against a team that is part of what is considered "America's Past-time". :rolleyes:

Mexican rights groups are even calling for sports teams/leagues around the country not to come to Arizona for their sporting events.

They showed the Mexican president saying how this could "strain" relations between Mexico and the United States. I say, "Great!".

Why don't you do something about your politically corrupt, drug-making/exporting, murdering cartel country President Calderon BEFORE criticizing anything going on in OUR country!

flo
04-28-2010, 04:14 PM
They showed the Mexican president saying how this could "strain" relations between Mexico and the United States. I say, "Great!".

Why don't you do something about your politically corrupt, drug-making/exporting, murdering cartel country President Calderon BEFORE criticizing anything going on in OUR country!

Amen to that, I agree 100%.

Most of the "protests" and boycott threats are all being done by illegals, the far left and Al Sharton and his ilk. LOL Judging by poll numbers, more than 70% of Arizonans want this bill, that's an overwhelming majority! It's their state and the feds won't enforce the law. Bravo to the legislators who carefully wrote this bill to closely follow federal law and the the governor for signing it.

I'm with Bonnie, Mexico can BUTT OUT. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, the Mexican Army Patrols THEIR border with Guatemala. BTW, if a person doesn't have "ID papers" in Mexico, they go to jail. What a bunch of interfering hypocrites.

Thanks for listing the key elements, JB. It makes fire shoot out of my eyes to listen to the PC demagogues spreading bald-faced lies about this bill.

Spiritwalker
04-28-2010, 05:04 PM
Awww....

The poor business owners... They are taking a hit already.. they aren't making any money from people that are not here legally.... And they are going to suffer... Sorry.. I bet you get a bail out....

I really don't care if their business suffers...

Kinda like a crack dealer.. you lock up all the users.. or at least get them out of the area.. you have no customers...

What does it say about a business that starts hurting.. when you start looking for people that are criminals???

While I do not live in AZ.. I do like this idea. If a cop wants to ask me for proof of citizenship.. sure.. "here you go".. If your here legally.. then why worry.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/28/arizona.immigration/index.html?hpt=C1


Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Hector Manrique takes a look around his taqueria and sighs. It's 3:30 in the afternoon, and usually around this time at least five or six tables are occupied by day laborers fresh off work, or schoolchildren and families in search of a torta or taco after school.

But today, Taqueria Guadalajara's plastic lawn chairs and tables are empty, and so is the tip jar on the counter. Street traffic in this predominantly Hispanic neighborhood of Phoenix, Arizona, is also lighter than usual, says Manrique, who opened the casual Mexican eatery in 2003.

Not even a week has passed since Gov. Jan Brewer signed into law tough measures targeting illegal immigrants, but Manrique and others who own businesses that cater primarily to Phoenix's large Hispanic community say they are already feeling the effects.

"I think they're afraid of being out on the streets knowing they're going to get pulled over by the sheriff," says Manrique, a Mexican-born U.S. citizen who has lived in Phoenix since the 1990s. "A lot of people told me they're afraid to go out even though the law's not fully passed."


The governor's signing of the bill has ignited a firestorm of debate in Arizona, with activists on both sides of the issue clamoring to keep the issue alive. If the new law withstands the numerous legal challenges being threatened, it could take effect as soon as August.



Supporters say the law will temper the negative effects of immigration, such as crime and the misuse of taxpayer dollars to fund health care and education needs of illegal immigrants.

Opponents fear that the "reasonable suspicion" standard applied to enforcing the bill will create a climate that fosters fear and condones racial profiling, drawing comparisons to fascism and apartheid.

On Monday, Brewer deflected concerns that the state's new immigration law will hurt economic development, saying many businesses have long wanted tougher action.

Manrique says customers started to become scarce a few weeks ago, when news surfaced that the bill was likely to pass. Then came Friday, the day Brewer signed the legislation.

"The streets just went empty. Usually on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, we're packed. But this weekend was empty like I'd never seen it before," Manrique said.

Immigrant soldier: 'Freedoms we enjoy are for everyone'

Across town, Jose Rivas' bodega offers customers a money wiring teller, a butcher counter and a wide variety of Mexican brands of cookies, beverages and household goods. He said his business also is taking a hit, and that the effects could be long-term.

"Ours is a culture that consumes a lot -- food, drinks, clothes, you name it," said Rivas, periodically stopping to greet or wave at a customer. "If no one's out shopping, how can I afford to employ my workers? They're all here legally. What happens to them?"

Ernesto Tercero, a first-generation Arizonan whose family is from Mexico, owns a meat distribution company that supplies dozens of stores in Phoenix. He says SB 1070 is a slap in the face to the Hispanic community.

"These people came here because they were told that there were jobs. They were brought here under promises of work, the American dream, and for many years we kept the dream alive," he said.

GOP lawmakers work to halt immigration agenda

Tercero, a tall, outspoken man whose gregarious manner underscores his deep connection to the community, noted that Hispanics both legal and illegal are considering leaving Arizona to avoid confrontations with law enforcement.

"They got people who've been here 20 years, they got kids, people who came when their kids were 3, 4 years old. Now they're 20 years old. They can't go back to Mexico. They've never even been to Mexico."

Growing up in Phoenix, Tercero recalls a time when Spanish was discouraged from being spoken in schools and Hispanics were limited in the jobs they could pursue and the places they could live.

Since then, self-made businessmen like Tercero, Rivas and Manrique have become models of success in Phoenix's small business community, said Todd Landfried, a spokesman for Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

"This law punishes local business owners who make a living catering to a certain market," Landfried said. "They've done everything expected of them. So why are they the ones getting punished?"

Spiritwalker
04-28-2010, 05:08 PM
It gets even better....

Now the protesters are planning to follow the Arizona Diamondbacks around at their away games and protest them, starting this week in Denver and Chicago.

That will really help their cause....protesting against a team that is part of what is considered "America's Past-time". :rolleyes:

Mexican rights groups are even calling for sports teams/leagues around the country not to come to Arizona for their sporting events.


Well.. at least all the cops will know where to look!

flo
04-28-2010, 05:14 PM
"The streets just went empty. Usually on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, we're packed. But this weekend was empty like I'd never seen it before," Manrique said.

He must have missed the "protestors" attacking the police.

I'm still waiting for the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Bill Clinton and Harry Reid, all of whom made statements on the potential violence of the Tea Partiers (hasn't happened yet) to comment on the REAL violence of the Arizona protesters.

:Whistle:

flo
04-28-2010, 05:16 PM
"This law punishes local business owners who make a living catering to a certain market," Landfried said. "They've done everything expected of them. So why are they the ones getting punished?"

i.e., the illegal alien market.

Cry me a river.

Spiritwalker
04-28-2010, 05:17 PM
... and toss those Mexican flags in the garbage.



there really is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage and where you were born...

I understand where you are coming from.. but I don't see a problem with flying a flag of another country....

At my dojo we have the Colombian, Brazillian, Filipino and Japanese flags ..

Of course they are under the American flag! :)

J.B.
04-28-2010, 05:35 PM
Well.. at least all the cops will know where to look!

Well, the problem is these protesters aren't dumb enough to pull that crap outside of Chase Field where a bunch of drunken D-Back fans can come stumbling out of the stadium and pick a fight.

They are doing this at the road games in other cities, where that respective cities drunken fans will come stumbling out and say "Yeah, f**k the Diamondbacks". Also, in cities like Chicago and Denver, the cops basically ignore illegal immigration.

Bonnie
04-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Amen to that, I agree 100%.

Most of the "protests" and boycott threats are all being done by illegals, the far left and Al Sharton and his ilk. LOL Judging by poll numbers, more than 70% of Arizonans want this bill, that's an overwhelming majority! It's their state and the feds won't enforce the law. Bravo to the legislators who carefully wrote this bill to closely follow federal law and the the governor for signing it.

I'm with Bonnie, Mexico can BUTT OUT. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, the Mexican Army Patrols THEIR border with Guatemala. BTW, if a person doesn't have "ID papers" in Mexico, they go to jail. What a bunch of interfering hypocrites.

Thanks for listing the key elements, JB. It makes fire shoot out of my eyes to listen to the PC demagogues spreading bald-faced lies about this bill.

Maybe if Mexico worried more about what's happening in their country, to their citizens, and did something about it, people would want to stay there, and we wouldn't have millions of illegal immigrants in our country. Mexico has failed her citizens for years, and Americans are paying the price (some with their lives), and all our government wants to do is bash those who are stepping up to do what the federal government should have been doing....which is enforce the laws of our land. If they can't or won't, I think the states should have the right to protect it's borders, lands and people from invading illegal masses.

Our government essentially keeps rewarding people who have broken the law of entering this country illegally. Does that make them an accessory to a crime? :unsure:

Now they're calling Arizona and these 70% plus citizens Nazis. :rolleyes: I think that term could easily be turned around; didn't the Nazis invade other countries trying to force themselves and their thinking on others....

J.B.
04-28-2010, 06:03 PM
Awww....

The poor business owners... They are taking a hit already.. they aren't making any money from people that are not here legally.... And they are going to suffer... Sorry.. I bet you get a bail out....

I really don't care if their business suffers...

Kinda like a crack dealer.. you lock up all the users.. or at least get them out of the area.. you have no customers...

What does it say about a business that starts hurting.. when you start looking for people that are criminals???



I completely understand your point, but I have to disagree with your comparison to crack dealers. Crack dealers KNOW they are selling crack to crack-heads. That is completely different than the guy down the street from me who runs a gas station or a sandwich shop. A cop asking a guy for ID is one thing, but are you gonna ask a guy for ID to sell him some food?

I actually live here in Arizona, so I DO care if their business suffers. One of the BIGGEST complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that many of them do not pay taxes. Well, these businesses DO pay taxes, and if they go out of business that doesn't help ANYBODY.

While I do support this law, and the process of immigration and naturalization in this country, I also understand reality. If EVERY illegal immigrant was gone from Arizona today, it would hurt our already depleted local economy.

This may seem like a grey area, because it is, but I don't have a problem with ALL illegal immigrants. Believe it or not, SOME of them actually do try to do things the right way, and actually pay taxes and contribute to our society, and I do think in some respects it's fair to say it should be a case by case basis. However, I also understand the logic that illegal means illegal, so if they are in this country illegally, they have to suffer the consequences if they are caught, just like I would have to in another country.

Make no mistake though, this new law down here wasn't put into action because of the tax-dodging border-jumpers, or this would have been done a long time ago. This law was enacted because of all the reports of illegal aliens committing violent crimes. For years our federal government ignored the problem along the border, and this state stood by and took it right on the chin. Finally, after the Krentz murder, and countless other cases in recent years, Arizona said enough is enough.

Bonnie
04-28-2010, 06:56 PM
I completely understand your point, but I have to disagree with your comparison to crack dealers. Crack dealers KNOW they are selling crack to crack-heads. That is completely different than the guy down the street from me who runs a gas station or a sandwich shop. A cop asking a guy for ID is one thing, but are you gonna ask a guy for ID to sell him some food?

I actually live here in Arizona, so I DO care if their business suffers. One of the BIGGEST complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that many of them do not pay taxes. Well, these businesses DO pay taxes, and if they go out of business that doesn't help ANYBODY.

While I do support this law, and the process of immigration and naturalization in this country, I also understand reality. If EVERY illegal immigrant was gone from Arizona today, it would hurt our already depleted local economy.

This may seem like a grey area, because it is, but I don't have a problem with ALL illegal immigrants. Believe it or not, SOME of them actually do try to do things the right way, and actually pay taxes and contribute to our society, and I do think in some respects it's fair to say it should be a case by case basis. However, I also understand the logic that illegal means illegal, so if they are in this country illegally, they have to suffer the consequences if they are caught, just like I would have to in another country.

Make no mistake though, this new law down here wasn't put into action because of the tax-dodging border-jumpers, or this would have been done a long time ago. This law was enacted because of all the reports of illegal aliens committing violent crimes. For years our federal government ignored the problem along the border, and this state stood by and took it right on the chin. Finally, after the Krentz murder, and countless other cases in recent years, Arizona said enough is enough.

Unfortunately, if you allow "one", as we've seen, the "rest" will follow and you end up with "millions" and not all of them are coming to be "upstanding" citizens. I'm for legal immigration/naturalization. My heart goes out to those downtrodden and suppressed in their own countries looking for a better life. But, illegally entering another country only creates another set of problems for them and everyone else.

You see that fence they have around the White House? Why is that fence there? What happens to people who trespass there? Are they haters? Are they "misguided"?

Spiritwalker
04-28-2010, 07:01 PM
I completely understand your point, but I have to disagree with your comparison to crack dealers. Crack dealers KNOW they are selling crack to crack-heads. That is completely different than the guy down the street from me who runs a gas station or a sandwich shop. A cop asking a guy for ID is one thing, but are you gonna ask a guy for ID to sell him some food?

I actually live here in Arizona, so I DO care if their business suffers. One of the BIGGEST complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that many of them do not pay taxes. Well, these businesses DO pay taxes, and if they go out of business that doesn't help ANYBODY.

While I do support this law, and the process of immigration and naturalization in this country, I also understand reality. If EVERY illegal immigrant was gone from Arizona today, it would hurt our already depleted local economy.

This may seem like a grey area, because it is, but I don't have a problem with ALL illegal immigrants. Believe it or not, SOME of them actually do try to do things the right way, and actually pay taxes and contribute to our society, and I do think in some respects it's fair to say it should be a case by case basis. However, I also understand the logic that illegal means illegal, so if they are in this country illegally, they have to suffer the consequences if they are caught, just like I would have to in another country.

Make no mistake though, this new law down here wasn't put into action because of the tax-dodging border-jumpers, or this would have been done a long time ago. This law was enacted because of all the reports of illegal aliens committing violent crimes. For years our federal government ignored the problem along the border, and this state stood by and took it right on the chin. Finally, after the Krentz murder, and countless other cases in recent years, Arizona said enough is enough.




Fair Enough... the crack dealer comparison is a bit harsh..

Maybe I really do care a bit..

Like martial arts.. "if you got no feet.. your hands will suffer" .. If your primary income source is gone.. you got nothing.. So you should have a good foundation...

I am not saying that shop owners should be "carding" to buy stuff.. but around here (NC) we have a exploding hispanic population.. and I would be willing to bet a LARGE portion of the catering to hispanics shops get the majority of their income from people that shouldn't be here.

J.B.
04-28-2010, 07:58 PM
Unfortunately, if you allow "one", as we've seen, the "rest" will follow and you end up with "millions" and not all of them are coming to be "upstanding" citizens. I'm for legal immigration/naturalization. My heart goes out to those downtrodden and suppressed in their own countries looking for a better life. But, illegally entering another country only creates another set of problems for them and everyone else.

You see that fence they have around the White House? Why is that fence there? What happens to people who trespass there? Are they haters? Are they "misguided"?

I understand that not all of them are upstanding citizens, which is why I put emphasis on the word SOME. Don't get me wrong, I am FOR this law, and I am for LEGAL immigration. I am just saying that I am not personally as upset about the ones who are actually paying taxes and trying to assimilate, like I am about the ones who work for cash and send the money back to Mexico, or the ones who are coming here and committing serious crimes.

Now, looking at your example regarding the White House;

If the federal government cared as much about our borders and illegal immigrants as it does about the lawn of the White House, we would have a much better fence and better protection down there than we do right now. This problem is just as much our own fault as it is the people who keep coming here illegally at this point, because we are basically doing NOTHING about it. Most of the illegals are not border jumpers, but rather people who overstay their visa.

Going back to your White House example, imagine if some of the people on a White House tour just wandered off unsupervised and Secret Service just said "meh, whatever...". That wouldn't fly, would it? Of course not, yet thats essentially what we say in a lot of "sanctuary cities" around the nation. I applaud the state of Arizona for taking a stand to enforce the law, and anybody who is here illegally has to understand that they are breaking the law and if they are caught they should suffer the consequences the same as anybody else who breaks the law.

J.B.
04-28-2010, 08:10 PM
Fair Enough... the crack dealer comparison is a bit harsh..

Maybe I really do care a bit..

Like martial arts.. "if you got no feet.. your hands will suffer" .. If your primary income source is gone.. you got nothing.. So you should have a good foundation...

I am not saying that shop owners should be "carding" to buy stuff.. but around here (NC) we have a exploding hispanic population.. and I would be willing to bet a LARGE portion of the catering to hispanics shops get the majority of their income from people that shouldn't be here.

I totally agree with what you are saying.

At the same time, those taco-stands and carnicerias are typically run by legit businessmen who pay taxes. So, in a way, taking that away actually hurts the local economy. Maybe not permanently, and maybe more so in some areas than others, but all the same, taking jobs and tax revenue away is rarely ever a "good" thing. Also, it's not only the Latino based shops that suffer, but also other local businesses within areas that have a high concentration of illegals, such as central Phoenix or Mesa in this case.

Bonnie
04-28-2010, 08:20 PM
I understand that not all of them are upstanding citizens, which is why I put emphasis on the word SOME. Don't get me wrong, I am FOR this law, and I am for LEGAL immigration. I am just saying that I am not personally as upset about the ones who are actually paying taxes and trying to assimilate, like I am about the ones who work for cash and send the money back to Mexico, or the ones who are coming here and committing serious crimes.

Now, looking at your example regarding the White House;

If the federal government cared as much about our borders and illegal immigrants as it does about the lawn of the White House, we would have a much better fence and better protection down there than we do right now. This problem is just as much our own fault as it is the people who keep coming here illegally at this point, because we are basically doing NOTHING about it. Most of the illegals are not border jumpers, but rather people who overstay their visa.

Going back to your White House example, imagine if some of the people on a White House tour just wandered off unsupervised and Secret Service just said "meh, whatever...". That wouldn't fly, would it? Of course not, yet thats essentially what we say in a lot of "sanctuary cities" around the nation. I applaud the state of Arizona for taking a stand to enforce the law, and anybody who is here illegally has to understand that they are breaking the law and if they are caught they should suffer the consequences the same as anybody else who breaks the law.

I know you are; I am too. I hope more states follow Arizona. I really wasn't "arguing" so much as adding my 2 cents. :wink: That last sentence in my post was really to give some food for thought to those opposing enforcing our immigration laws which seems to include our president (AND those that have come before him--democrat and republican).

We've got our "rydum" going again, JB. :w00t: Let's keep Anderson out of it. :laugh:

Dethbob
04-28-2010, 08:30 PM
Why not target the folks hiring the illegals?

ABSOLUTELY! If they can’t stay in business legally, they should not be in business.

J.B.
04-28-2010, 08:35 PM
I know you are; I am too. I hope more states follow Arizona. I really wasn't "arguing" so much as adding my 2 cents. :wink: That last sentence in my post was really to give some food for thought to those opposing enforcing our immigration laws which seems to include our president (AND those that have come before him--democrat and republican).

We've got our "rydum" going again, JB. :w00t: Let's keep Anderson out of it. :laugh:

Well, if Dana ever gets off his butt and brings the UFC to Phoenix, Anderson better make sure he has his papers with him! :laugh:

This is great discussion, and I know you weren't arguing, it's all good. :wink:

I like your comparison to the White House, but it really made me think about it in terms of how much our federal government has just ignored this issue, unlike they would if the situation actually involved the White House.

Dethbob
04-28-2010, 08:37 PM
When I was in high school we all worked bucking bales, cutting firewood, fixing fences or whatever. That work is all done by illegals now. A whole generation is learning to expect an allowance and that work is for other people.

Bonnie
04-28-2010, 09:12 PM
Well, if Dana ever gets off his butt and brings the UFC to Phoenix, Anderson better make sure he has his papers with him! :laugh:

This is great discussion, and I know you weren't arguing, it's all good. :wink:

I like your comparison to the White House, but it really made me think about it in terms of how much our federal government has just ignored this issue, unlike they would if the situation actually involved the White House.

Yeah, I don't think his "strategy" will go over well with law enforcement. :laugh: The protesters would probably love it though and one Arizonan named JB. :laugh:

The corporations and politicians have tunnel vision regarding illegal immigration; they just see dollars and votes. Let's face it, unless it affects their profits or elections negatively, they're going to stick together while sticking it to the rest of us. :wink: Their greed for money and power are ruining us as a great country.

flo
04-28-2010, 09:23 PM
I actually live here in Arizona, so I DO care if their business suffers. One of the BIGGEST complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that many of them do not pay taxes. Well, these businesses DO pay taxes, and if they go out of business that doesn't help ANYBODY.

While I do support this law, and the process of immigration and naturalization in this country, I also understand reality. If EVERY illegal immigrant was gone from Arizona today, it would hurt our already depleted local economy.

This may seem like a grey area, because it is, but I don't have a problem with ALL illegal immigrants. Believe it or not, SOME of them actually do try to do things the right way, and actually pay taxes and contribute to our society, and I do think in some respects it's fair to say it should be a case by case basis. However, I also understand the logic that illegal means illegal, so if they are in this country illegally, they have to suffer the consequences if they are caught, just like I would have to in another country.



Good points, I see what you're saying. Believe me, we have thousands of illegal immigrants here too (WA); that's who is currently building the final 3 houses in the subdivision directly behind us. Those are they guys that did the actual work on our roof last year.

I'm not a hard-hearted person. I am for legal immigration. I really enjoy meeting people from different countries and learning something about their cultures and am proud that they want to be Americans.

But we are a sovereign country with a right to decide who can live here and become a citizen, who can work here and the process in which to do those things. Like all other countries, we make the immigration quotas based on what's best for us, not what benefits other countries. But I'm sick and tired of the INVASION of our country by illegals and our southern states in particular just can't financially bear the burden any longer.

Meanwhile, the feds continue to do NOTHING while the majority of people demanding enforcement of our laws are labeled racist and worse.

J.B.
04-28-2010, 09:26 PM
Completely agree, Flo :)

flo
04-28-2010, 09:28 PM
Going back to your White House example, imagine if some of the people on a White House tour just wandered off unsupervised and Secret Service just said "meh, whatever...".

We've got our "rydum" going again, JB. :w00t: Let's keep Anderson out of it. :laugh:

I was starting to get all steamed up again until I read those comments. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Guess it was time to lighten up. :wink:

J.B.
04-28-2010, 09:30 PM
Yeah, I don't think his "strategy" will go over well with law enforcement. :laugh: The protesters would probably love it though and one Arizonan named JB. :laugh:

You got me there Bonnie...I would love it if Anderson danced for the cops when they asked for his papers. :laugh:

Although, Sherrif Joe's method's of engagement are slightly more effective than Damian Maia's. They have guns.

flo
04-28-2010, 09:44 PM
When I was in high school we all worked bucking bales, cutting firewood, fixing fences or whatever. That work is all done by illegals now. A whole generation is learning to expect an allowance and that work is for other people.

Sadly true. I have a nephew who apparently thinks the world owes him a living (I also have a couple industrious ones, so I'm not generalizing!).

The men working on the houses behind us work 7 days a week; they work in the wind and rain, heck - it was even hailing last week when they were roofing and they didn't stop. They are obviously hard workers but seem glad to have the jobs, I can hear them singing and whistling :-) So no, I don't think they should be sent back to Mexico but I want them to become citizens or get work visas (which they may well have).

It's such a complicated problem but, thanks to this horrible economy and the recent spikes in violence, I believe it has reached the breaking point.

MattHughesRocks
04-28-2010, 09:56 PM
I don't know if I'm missing something here or what (and I certainly didn't read much of this thread :laugh:) but I'm all for them asking for documentation for someone they suspect is here illegally . It's no different then a cop asking some gang banger looking thug on the streets at 3 am for ID. I think when people talk about being here illegally it's done so much we stop hearing the fact that it means against the law. NOT ok!

Rev
04-28-2010, 10:11 PM
When I was in high school we all worked bucking bales, cutting firewood, fixing fences or whatever. That work is all done by illegals now. A whole generation is learning to expect an allowance and that work is for other people.

We might have grown up together. lol

logrus
04-28-2010, 10:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=player_embedded

Could Alabama be next?

Tests are given in Arabic, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese,

J.B.
04-28-2010, 10:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=player_embedded


that was awesome :laugh:

Bonnie
04-28-2010, 11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=player_embedded

Could Alabama be next?

Tests are given in Arabic, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese,

Makes sense to me. You should be able to read/understand the street and highway signs when you are actually driving on the road. :wink:

Miss Foxy
04-29-2010, 12:00 AM
Makes sense to me. You should be able to read/understand the street and highway signs when you are actually driving on the road. :wink:

Lmao!! For reals Bonnie it would probably reduce accidents that certain minorities cause.. Oh im not pointing any fingers to Asia or anything.. :rolleyes:

flo
04-29-2010, 12:54 AM
Wow, someone speaking with plain common sense, how refreshing! I am actually stunned that they now give the test in 12 languages! I wonder how many other countries do that? I'm willing to bet not a single one.

Makes sense to me. You should be able to read/understand the street and highway signs when you are actually driving on the road.

Wouldn't THAT be nice? :frantics:

Bonnie
04-29-2010, 01:01 AM
Lmao!! For reals Bonnie it would probably reduce accidents that certain minorities cause.. Oh im not pointing any fingers to Asia or anything.. :rolleyes:

:laugh:

Honestly, when I watched the link, I thought, "How in the heck DO foreigners drive over here if they can't speak or read English? :scared0015: And I thought it was dangerous enough driving on the roads with all these crazy English-speaking Americans! Oh, well, I think everyone understands universal sign language. :laugh:

Spiritwalker
04-29-2010, 02:27 AM
Wow, someone speaking with plain common sense, how refreshing! I am actually stunned that they now give the test in 12 languages! I wonder how many other countries do that? I'm willing to bet not a single one.


In South America I saw English, Spanish and Portuguese. Granted.. this was in major tourist areas.. once we left those areas.. Not a single one... that's why most shapes are universal.

flo
04-29-2010, 02:42 AM
Where you in Brazil, Spirit? IIRC, Portuguese is their official language?

I don't object to traffic signs in urban areas being bi-lingual. Heck, our Home Depots have every single sign in the store in English and Spanish.

But when states are required to give a driver's exam in 12 different languages, that just boggles my mind! It's ridiculous, I don't travel with the expectation that everything be in English, this requirement is so far beyond the pale it boggles the mind.

Bonnie
04-29-2010, 02:44 AM
I don't know if I'm missing something here or what (and I certainly didn't read much of this thread :laugh:) but I'm all for them asking for documentation for someone they suspect is here illegally . It's no different then a cop asking some gang banger looking thug on the streets at 3 am for ID. I think when people talk about being here illegally it's done so much we stop hearing the fact that it means against the law. NOT ok!

I know, right...what's not to understand? :rolleyes: Maybe the "il" is being lost in translation. :unsure-1:

Illegal immigration is the movement of people across national borders in a way that violates the immigration laws of the destination country. Illegal immigrants are also known as illegal aliens to differentiate them from legal aliens. Conversely, illegal emigration refers to unlawfully leaving a country.

If only we had THAT problem. :rolleyes:

Spiritwalker
04-29-2010, 02:57 AM
Where you in Brazil, Spirit? IIRC, Portuguese is their official language?

I don't object to traffic signs in urban areas being bi-lingual. Heck, our Home Depots have every single sign in the store in English and Spanish.

But when states are required to give a driver's exam in 12 different languages, that just boggles my mind! It's ridiculous, I don't travel with the expectation that everything be in English, this requirement is so far beyond the pale it boggles the mind.

I went to Colombia for 12 days... Didn't have the $$ to make it to Brazil...

Loved that country.. and can't wait to go back.

Tyburn
04-29-2010, 09:53 PM
Word of advice to you protesters; When the topic of debate is an issue pertaining to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you don't help your cause in the public eye when you gather in large groups and march through the streets waving the flag of another country.

Want to know something interesting I discovered from a friend at work who has a flag pole in his back garden? Firstly, as Suspected, you need council planning permission to put up a flag pole...even if away from the house and in the garden...secondly, height restrictions apply...finally, you may fly any flag you wish...EXCEPT...it is ILLEGAL to fly the flag of any other Nation (I think you might get away with a commonwealth country) This means...if I decided tommorow I wanted to fly the American flag I have on my wall, outside...they'd probably come and arrest me :laugh:

...ohhh the temptation :ninja:

Special discompensation is obviously given to Embassies, and I imagine to places like Concert Venues and the likes...but I bet they have to pay through the teeth to hoise flags of non EU/Non Commonwealth countries....:laugh: ...I laugh..BUT there is a decent sized American population living in and around Harrogate because of Menwith Hill airbase...I cant think it would help the homesickness of some of the wives and families of the Military who might be used to the daily labour of rising and setting their flag to be told they cant do it...that seems a little harsh particularly when its not like any English person is really bothering to fly their own flags...its not like there is going to be competition...and its not like any American who did it would forget they were in England...for some of them, who may be over here for the love of their country...it seems a very mean thing to impose upon them when our Countries are supposed to be best of friends...its not like they are going to fly the Irainian flag or something :rolleyes:

J.B.
04-29-2010, 10:18 PM
This means...if I decided tommorow I wanted to fly the American flag I have on my wall, outside...they'd probably come and arrest me :laugh:


They need to start doing that here! :laugh:

Seriously though, I don't mind people being proud of their heritage, but the mob-scene atmosphere and waving a Mexican flag is just unsettling to me. Same goes for when Homosexuals have parades and wave a "rainbow flag". That drives me absolutely nuts.

The only two flags I care to see are these.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/419187374_244fb2442b.jpg

http://www.adwr.state.az.us/azdwr/StatewidePlanning/Conservation2/Residential/images/arizona_flag.gif

Tyburn
04-29-2010, 10:31 PM
They need to start doing that here! :laugh:

Seriously though, I don't mind people being proud of their heritage, but the mob-scene atmosphere and waving a Mexican flag is just unsettling to me. Same goes for when Homosexuals have parades and wave a "rainbow flag". That drives me absolutely nuts.

The only two flags I care to see are these.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/419187374_244fb2442b.jpg

http://www.adwr.state.az.us/azdwr/StatewidePlanning/Conservation2/Residential/images/arizona_flag.gif

The irony is, that you can hoist a foreign company logo, or a sports logo, or yes, even a rainbow flag....but not a standard of a foreign Government I suppose.

I have a gift for you

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4108/pict0122t.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/pict0122t.jpg/)

Atmospheric...no :huh:

J.B.
04-29-2010, 11:09 PM
The irony is, that you can hoist a foreign company logo, or a sports logo, or yes, even a rainbow flag....but not a standard of a foreign Government I suppose.

I have a gift for you

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4108/pict0122t.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/pict0122t.jpg/)

Atmospheric...no :huh:

Thats an awesome pic :wink:

I have no problem with flags for sports teams or businesses, but the rainbow flag is just annoying to me.:laugh:

flo
04-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Same goes for when Homosexuals have parades and wave a "rainbow flag". That drives me absolutely nuts.


The rainbow flag doesn't bother me too much, it's when they wave other things...

:ninja:

flo
04-29-2010, 11:18 PM
But seriously, beautiful pic of our flag, JB.

I get really steamed when I see anyone mistreating it. Remember that video of a vet cutting down the Mexican flag flying on top of a US flag in front of a business? I'll have to see if I can dig that up...

US flag ALWAYS takes precedence.

flo
04-29-2010, 11:22 PM
Here it is. I love that this guy stood up for our flag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

donaldbreland
04-29-2010, 11:48 PM
I ask any of you against this bill to please explain a better way to deal with illegals. I don't think the cops would harass someone for long when they showed them legal paperwork of them being legal. Maybe 2 minutes at most. The problem with Canadians crossing the border is they are not causing trouble. 87% of the illegal Mexican coming across the boarder have a criminal history. That's the problem. I think the two problems we have facing right now in this Country is
Illegal Mexicans and Muslim terrorist. If racially profiling makes our country safer then I am all for it. I just want it to be done the right way. If you look like you're doing something wrong or illegal then the cop should be able to question you. No matter the color of someones skin.
I am sick and tired of everything being about race. Arizona has a problem with Illegals and this will help stop the problem.

Tyburn
04-29-2010, 11:50 PM
The rainbow flag doesn't bother me too much, it's when they wave other things...

:ninja:

:huh: I can only imagine :ninja::ashamed::laugh:

Tyburn
04-29-2010, 11:54 PM
Thats an awesome pic :wink:


:w00t: I'm glad you like it. Its actually a picture of the little circle of flags around the base of the Washington Monument...actually...as you can see...you only get the curverture of the concourse...you probably cant tell, but your facing towards the Lincoln Memorial, on (now its very difficult for me because I dont know the compass in Washington...I want to say North side...because I feel like the National Mall should run east/west, with the Capitol Building being at the East...but I'm not actually sure thats correct :laugh:) the side of the Elipse :)

One can only hope...but the National Mall, if its truely in keeping with European Design, could well be a liturgical outline, supposed to be viewed from above...if so...you'd put the most important thing in the East, then you would have a cross shape coming out from that...down to the Washington, North Transept would be the Whitehouse, South Transept would be Jefferson, and West End would be Lincoln...it would be Beautiful if true to compass...dont know if it is or not though...certainly thats how I would have designed it LOL

atomdanger
04-29-2010, 11:58 PM
I ask any of you against this bill to please explain a better way to deal with illegals. I don't think the cops would harass someone for long when they showed them legal paperwork of them being legal. Maybe 2 minutes at most. The problem with Canadians crossing the border is they are not causing trouble. 87% of the illegal Mexican coming across the boarder have a criminal history. That's the problem. I think the two problems we have facing right now in this Country is
Illegal Mexicans and Muslim terrorist. If racially profiling makes our country safer then I am all for it. I just want it to be done the right way. If you look like you're doing something wrong or illegal then the cop should be able to question you. No matter the color of someones skin.
I am sick and tired of everything being about race. Arizona has a problem with Illegals and this will help stop the problem.

Very well said.
I know a lot of Mexican's aren't going to be ok with this,
but if you're here to work and be good, whats the problem?
I have never understood the problem with racial profiling.
I know blacks complain about it often, but they're 15 percent of the population,
and over 50 percent of the prison population.

J.B.
04-30-2010, 01:07 AM
:w00t: I'm glad you like it. Its actually a picture of the little circle of flags around the base of the Washington Monument...actually...as you can see...you only get the curverture of the concourse...you probably cant tell, but your facing towards the Lincoln Memorial, on (now its very difficult for me because I dont know the compass in Washington...I want to say North side...because I feel like the National Mall should run east/west, with the Capitol Building being at the East...but I'm not actually sure thats correct :laugh:) the side of the Elipse :)

One can only hope...but the National Mall, if its truely in keeping with European Design, could well be a liturgical outline, supposed to be viewed from above...if so...you'd put the most important thing in the East, then you would have a cross shape coming out from that...down to the Washington, North Transept would be the Whitehouse, South Transept would be Jefferson, and West End would be Lincoln...it would be Beautiful if true to compass...dont know if it is or not though...certainly thats how I would have designed it LOL

I gotta give you credit Dave, your observation skills are something else. The little nuances you pick up on and think about are definitely outside the box of my typical train of thought. :laugh:

Play The Man
04-30-2010, 05:05 AM
Dah! Let me see your papers!

If I am pulled over for speeding I must show a valid driver's license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration. When I fly I must show a driver's license and run my credit card through a scanner. When I make a purchase with a credit card, I must show my driver's license. Travel to Mexico and Canada now requires a passport. Travel to foreign countries requires a passport, visa and sometimes proof of immunization. In our modern world, there is nothing wrong with expecting a person to carry valid identification. I'm sorry, but carrying proof of legal immigration status is not burdensome. In fact, in some cases native-born citizens are given more of a hassle than immigrants. For example, a number of years ago I moved to a different state. When I applied for a new driver's license, they sent me home because an out-of-state license was not enough proof of identity for the DMV. I came back with the out-of-state license and a birth certificate. I was again refused, this time because my birth certificate did not have a raised, palpable seal. I had to arrange to have another birth certificate sent from my town of birth, hundreds of miles away (isn't it ironic that I have to supply a birth certificate to get a driver's license and yet Barack Obama can become president without showing his . . . but I digress). Finally, on the third attempt, I received a new license. The ironic thing was that the DMV office was filled with Somali immigrants who couldn't speak a lick of English. In case you are not familiar with Somalis, they don't celebrate birthdays, and most Somalis don't know their actual birthdates. Therefore, many Somalis choose the date of January 1st as their birthdate. Here I was, a native-born citizen, having my records scrutinized while Somalis without English proficiency, without a birth certificate and with completely fabricated birthdates (everyone in the entire DMV probably had the birthdate of January 1st) were allowed to skate through the exam, with driving tests in their native tongue, and were issued licenses without delay (complete with picture partially obscured by Islamic head coverings)

Bonnie
04-30-2010, 05:13 AM
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4108/pict0122t.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/pict0122t.jpg/)

Atmospheric...no :huh:

That's beautiful, Dave. :)

It would have been even more awesome if the wind had been blowing so they would all have been billowing out. There's this huge American flag along the roadside I travel daily and it is just beautiful to see those stars and stripes waving on the wind.

donaldbreland
04-30-2010, 05:23 AM
I think I seen a poll where 60% of Americans agree with this Bill. This is what we need to do in all 50 States. This will be the beginning of America finally putting up with Illegals from any country. When I travel to another country I have to have shots so I don't bring a disease over or carry one back. Think about all the illegals who have brought disease upon us. I don't know about you but I want to die of old age not from a foreign sickness brought over from some illegal.

Bonnie
04-30-2010, 05:42 AM
You know what gets me. I'm hearing like the mayor of Phoenix and others in Arizona are against this bill and some guy from California was talking about boycotting Arizona. They'll put resources, time and money into protesting and boycotting Arizona, but they can't do the same to push members of their party, the president and congress to get together and do something on a federal level about illegal immigration.

Some guy was on Greta last night and gave her all the reasons he's against this bill, but when she asked him, "What would you do about illegal immigration?", he said it was up to the federal government not the states. She cut him off and said, "But the federal government isn't doing anything." He had no answer for her just like all these other people crying and ******** about racial profiling and civil rights. Apparently, they have no problem with people coming into our country illegally (even after 9/11), but they have a big problem with a state at least attempting to find a solution.

Absolutely crazy!

donaldbreland
04-30-2010, 05:45 AM
You know what gets me. I'm hearing like the mayor of Phoenix and others in Arizona are against this bill and some guy from California was talking about boycotting Arizona. They'll put resources, time and money into protesting and boycotting Arizona, but they can't do the same to push members of their party, the president and congress to get together and do something on a federal level about illegal immigration.

Some guy was on Greta last night and gave her all the reasons he's against this bill, but when she asked him, "What would you do about illegal immigration?", he said it was up to the federal government not the states. She cut him off and said, "But the federal government isn't doing anything." He had no answer for her just like all these other people crying and ******** about racial profiling and civil rights. Apparently, they have no problem with people coming into our country illegally (even after 9/11), but they have a big problem with a state at least attempting to find a solution.

Absolutely crazy!

I agree 1000000000000000000000000000%

Look if you come legally then I don't have a problem with that. How can someone defend someone breaking the law. It's unheard of.

J.B.
04-30-2010, 06:04 AM
You know what gets me. I'm hearing like the mayor of Phoenix and others in Arizona are against this bill and some guy from California was talking about boycotting Arizona. They'll put resources, time and money into protesting and boycotting Arizona, but they can't do the same to push members of their party, the president and congress to get together and do something on a federal level about illegal immigration.

This pisses me off to no end.

How stupid are these people?

Yeah....go ahead and boycott us. Go ahead and try to hurt the same people you are supposed to care about. :rolleyes:

If these people took their heads out of their asses for 10 seconds, or if they had any sort of REALISTIC understanding of the situation in Maricopa County they would shut their mouths and realize we are just enforcing the law that is already there. Enough is enough.

I took great pleasure in listening to the Arizona Diamondbacks whoop the S**T out of the Chicago Cubs today as all those idiots stood outside Wrigley Field protesting during this nation's past-time. :wink:

J.B.
04-30-2010, 06:13 AM
My all time favorite Andy Griff... I mean Joe Arpaio, interview... :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-5_h7KuF8

Right at 3:04 is the BEST...

flo
04-30-2010, 06:43 AM
If I am pulled over for speeding I must show a valid driver's license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration. When I fly I must show a driver's license and run my credit card through a scanner. When I make a purchase with a credit card, I must show my driver's license. Travel to Mexico and Canada now requires a passport. Travel to foreign countries requires a passport, visa and sometimes proof of immunization. In our modern world, there is nothing wrong with expecting a person to carry valid identification. I'm sorry, but carrying proof of legal immigration status is not burdensome. In fact, in some cases native-born citizens are given more of a hassle than immigrants. For example, a number of years ago I moved to a different state. When I applied for a new driver's license, they sent me home because an out-of-state license was not enough proof of identity for the DMV. I came back with the out-of-state license and a birth certificate. I was again refused, this time because my birth certificate did not have a raised, palpable seal. I had to arrange to have another birth certificate sent from my town of birth, hundreds of miles away (isn't it ironic that I have to supply a birth certificate to get a driver's license and yet Barack Obama can become president without showing his . . . but I digress). Finally, on the third attempt, I received a new license. The ironic thing was that the DMV office was filled with Somali immigrants who couldn't speak a lick of English. In case you are not familiar with Somalis, they don't celebrate birthdays, and most Somalis don't know their actual birthdates. Therefore, many Somalis choose the date of January 1st as their birthdate. Here I was, a native-born citizen, having my records scrutinized while Somalis without English proficiency, without a birth certificate and with completely fabricated birthdates (everyone in the entire DMV probably had the birthdate of January 1st) were allowed to skate through the exam, with driving tests in their native tongue, and were issued licenses without delay (complete with picture partially obscured by Islamic head coverings)


You nailed it again, PTM.

flo
04-30-2010, 06:46 AM
Some guy was on Greta last night and gave her all the reasons he's against this bill, but when she asked him, "What would you do about illegal immigration?", he said it was up to the federal government not the states. She cut him off and said, "But the federal government isn't doing anything." He had no answer for her just like all these other people crying and ******** about racial profiling and civil rights. Apparently, they have no problem with people coming into our country illegally (even after 9/11), but they have a big problem with a state at least attempting to find a solution.

Absolutely crazy!

I saw that too, Bonnie, it made me crazy! I have to say that Greta conducted that interview very professionally while I was hollering at the screen "answer the question!". :laugh::laugh::laugh:

flo
04-30-2010, 06:53 AM
My all time favorite Andy Griff... I mean Joe Arpaio, interview... :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-5_h7KuF8

Right at 3:04 is the BEST...
They can put that in their pipe and smoke it.:laugh::laugh:
I missed that video the first time around but I do remember when they were initially piling on Sheriff Joe. He can hold his own, thank goodness.

J.B.
04-30-2010, 07:01 AM
:laugh::laugh:
I missed that video the first time around but I do remember when they were initially piling on Sheriff Joe. He can hold his own, thank goodness.

Me and my friends love that sound-bite. It has literally been cannon-fodder for many timeless jokes around our "water-cooler".

Sheriff Joe is a very colorful guy, and he always forces a hilarious discussion. Given the fact that all of us actually live in Arizona, I can imagine Andy Grif....I mean Sheriff Joe, being a talking point from time to time on our podcast. :laugh:

Play The Man
04-30-2010, 07:15 AM
Some people are pretty upset about this.

The bill would for the most part, just ramp up efforts to punish people for doing things that are ALREADY illegal. Still, the basic gist is that it would make it a crime for illegal aliens to be in the state, and it would also require police to ask for proof of citizenship or legal status if there is a reason to suspect a person is in the country illegally.

Needless to say, Mexicans in the Valley of the Sun are pissed, and they voice that displeasure by taking to the streets and waving Mexican flags.

Word of advice to you protesters; When the topic of debate is an issue pertaining to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you don't help your cause in the public eye when you gather in large groups and march through the streets waving the flag of another country. When people see that on the news, they either laugh, face-palm, get angry, or a combination of the three. Unless it's the American flag, or one of the 52 state flags, don't even go there. It's fine to be proud, but use some common sense when doing so. You are in America.

With that being said. I love Mexicans, and the culture that comes with living in the southwest US. I love Mexican food, Mexican women, and even some Mexican fighters. It just drives me nuts that when we try to address a REAL problem that is hurting our state and our country, some people try to make it a race issue and refuse to look at the bigger picture in terms of what is happening.
Some pictures of the protest from MichelleMalkin.com
http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/immigmask.jpg

He sure looks like an American patriot to me!



http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/immigflag.jpg

The above picture would be one time when a liberal would not say "Stop wrapping yourself in the flag!"



http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/luz.jpg

For those of you who don't speak Spanish, it says, "Green light to invade Arizona"



http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/immignobord.jpg

Please note the fine print of the sign - "No Borders!"



http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/immig4.jpg

"Smash The State!" - Nice, peaceful, well-meaning protesters



http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/immig1.jpg

A Communist flag being carried by a protester




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9Xyer7GTY&feature=player_embedded Link to a YouTube video of a Hispanic lady at the protest hitting a camera. Subsequently, numerous Hispanic male protesters try to intimidate the cameraman and get him to leave. The cameraman asserts his right to assemble and stands his ground.

J.B.
04-30-2010, 07:28 AM
I love ya PTM, but those pictures are making me angry. : :angry:

Maybe I should take to the streets with my anger and wave an American flag? :propeller:

Then I could go to jail for actually giving a crap about THIS country! :Whistle: :laugh:

J.B.
04-30-2010, 07:38 AM
Funny how MOST of ARIZONA seems to support this, but the national media makes it seem as if this is the biggest civil rights violation since slavery.

Another thing I think I NEED to say is that it's funny how many people will criticize harsh measures like this until THEY are ACTUALLY in danger. All the libtards are against gun rights UNTIL somebody breaks into THEIR home and violates THEIR family.

Play The Man
04-30-2010, 08:01 AM
I love ya PTM, but those pictures are making me angry. : :angry:

Maybe I should take to the streets with my anger and wave an American flag? :propeller:

Then I could go to jail for actually giving a crap about THIS country! :Whistle: :laugh:

Get out your checkbook. Unfortunately, politicians only see dollar signs. Donate the biggest check you can to the candidate and issues that you support. P.J. O'Rourke had a book with the title: Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence and a Bad Haircut. In my opinion, a nice big campaign donation beats a protest riot of radicals with bad haircuts.

If you are already angry with the pictures I posted, I guess I will have to save the Aztlan and The Reconquista signs for later.

Play The Man
04-30-2010, 08:05 AM
Funny how MOST of ARIZONA seems to support this, but the national media makes it seem as if this is the biggest civil rights violation since slavery.

Another thing I think I NEED to say is that it's funny how many people will criticize harsh measures like this until THEY are ACTUALLY in danger. All the libtards are against gun rights UNTIL somebody breaks into THEIR home and violates THEIR family.

Please see my thread in Politics about "How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens". Mexico's immigration policies are much, much more restrictive than anything in the U.S. They allow citizen's arrests of illegal aliens.

J.B.
04-30-2010, 08:08 AM
Please see my thread in Politics about "How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens". Mexico's immigration policies are much, much more restrictive than anything in the U.S. They allow citizen's arrests of illegal aliens.

They also allow you to walk right in without any form of ID.

The "Federales" can also seize anything they want at any time...

Welcome to Mexico...:laugh:

Tyburn
04-30-2010, 11:28 AM
I gotta give you credit Dave, your observation skills are something else. The little nuances you pick up on and think about are definitely outside the box of my typical train of thought. :laugh:

:laugh: sometimes I wish I could shut it off...but these things just come to me. :blink:

I remember that the final product of the Mall isnt the original design anyway...because I seem to recall the original design is outlined in a scale drawing on the floor of Freedom Plaza (which is behind the Federal Triangle and sorta between the Whitehouse and the Capitol) What I cant remember is if the person who finally installed the Mall was the same person who conceived the original idea...also of course...the monuments may not have all been planned...like the World War Two Memorial...I mean that couldnt be part of the design because the war hadnt happened yet :laugh: I did a little reading on it when I visited...but I cant remember much without a little research. :laugh:

Tyburn
04-30-2010, 11:42 AM
That's beautiful, Dave. :)

It would have been even more awesome if the wind had been blowing so they would all have been billowing out. There's this huge American flag along the roadside I travel daily and it is just beautiful to see those stars and stripes waving on the wind.

Yes...and the lights a little brighter. Washington is actually really quite poorly lit at night I think. The little spotlights arent really adequet...I'm not advocating making the Mall into a bunch of Christmas Trees...but slightly more light would have helpped...I dont think Lincoln was lit at all...it suprises me that the Americans havent put more into it just for aesthetics...its beautiful as it is...but better lighting would definately improve it.

The irony was that the day I took the photo was a day of wind and rain...and both stopped just at night fall...so when I couldnt take photographs of the flags because they were billowing in rain...I got my camera out, the wind dropped, and the rain soaked flags sorta flopped :rolleyes:

Chicago was better for that...here are some of my flag photographs :)

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9532/pict0102r.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/pict0102r.jpg/)

Chicago Harbour

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8435/pict0008rz.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/pict0008rz.jpg/)

Standard of the State of Illinois and Standard of The City of Chicago

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/425/pict0007uj.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/pict0007uj.jpg/)

The end of Navy Pier on Lake Michigan

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1769/pict0118x.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/pict0118x.jpg/)

Congress.

:)

Bonnie
04-30-2010, 12:51 PM
This pisses me off to no end.

How stupid are these people?

Yeah....go ahead and boycott us. Go ahead and try to hurt the same people you are supposed to care about. :rolleyes:

If these people took their heads out of their asses for 10 seconds, or if they had any sort of REALISTIC understanding of the situation in Maricopa County they would shut their mouths and realize we are just enforcing the law that is already there. Enough is enough.

I took great pleasure in listening to the Arizona Diamondbacks whoop the S**T out of the Chicago Cubs today as all those idiots stood outside Wrigley Field protesting during this nation's past-time. :wink:

That's what one host said to a man who was advocating boycotting. "But, you're going to hurt the very people you claim you care about." :rolleyes:

Sheriff Joe pointed that out repeatedly--that they are just enforcing the federal law that is already there.

Bonnie
04-30-2010, 01:06 PM
Please see my thread in Politics about "How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens". Mexico's immigration policies are much, much more restrictive than anything in the U.S. They allow citizen's arrests of illegal aliens.

Like Flo mentioned in a previous post, they're a bunch of hypocrites. They oppose the death penalty here, but have you seen their prisons. :blink: I guess they think they're humane. If I had the choice between being put to death here or languishing in those horrible conditions, I'd say, "Hook me up with that cocktail!"

NateR
04-30-2010, 01:48 PM
If I am pulled over for speeding I must show a valid driver's license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration. When I fly I must show a driver's license and run my credit card through a scanner. When I make a purchase with a credit card, I must show my driver's license. Travel to Mexico and Canada now requires a passport. Travel to foreign countries requires a passport, visa and sometimes proof of immunization. In our modern world, there is nothing wrong with expecting a person to carry valid identification. I'm sorry, but carrying proof of legal immigration status is not burdensome. In fact, in some cases native-born citizens are given more of a hassle than immigrants. For example, a number of years ago I moved to a different state. When I applied for a new driver's license, they sent me home because an out-of-state license was not enough proof of identity for the DMV. I came back with the out-of-state license and a birth certificate. I was again refused, this time because my birth certificate did not have a raised, palpable seal. I had to arrange to have another birth certificate sent from my town of birth, hundreds of miles away (isn't it ironic that I have to supply a birth certificate to get a driver's license and yet Barack Obama can become president without showing his . . . but I digress). Finally, on the third attempt, I received a new license. The ironic thing was that the DMV office was filled with Somali immigrants who couldn't speak a lick of English. In case you are not familiar with Somalis, they don't celebrate birthdays, and most Somalis don't know their actual birthdates. Therefore, many Somalis choose the date of January 1st as their birthdate. Here I was, a native-born citizen, having my records scrutinized while Somalis without English proficiency, without a birth certificate and with completely fabricated birthdates (everyone in the entire DMV probably had the birthdate of January 1st) were allowed to skate through the exam, with driving tests in their native tongue, and were issued licenses without delay (complete with picture partially obscured by Islamic head coverings)



Excellent post! I remember when I got discharged from the Army, I had moved over 14 times within my 10 year enlistment and somewhere along the line my birth certificate had gotten lost. So when I got out, I couldn't get a job anywhere until I could get a new, certified copy of my birth certificate (I'm not Barack Obama so I couldn't just email prospective employers a digital scan off the internet :rolleyes: ). Unfortunately, that took a few months, since everything had to be done by mail, and in that time I was forced to declare bankruptcy because I had no way to replace my Army income.

So, these "immigrants" can cry me a river about their "civil rights" being violated because they will be required to prove that they are in this country legally.

Spiritwalker
04-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Wow.. fear the logic.. !!!!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/index.html?hpt=C1

Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Sue Schwartz says she's been called a racist so many times she doesn't mind the label anymore. If wanting immigrants to enter the country legally, like her great-grandparents from Mexico, and obey the laws of the land makes her racist, then so be it, she says firmly.

"I'm getting to the point I wear it with pride," says Schwartz, a lifelong Arizonan who has warily watched the growth of the illegal immigrant population in the state over the course of her life.



"I hope it makes a lot of them leave on their own, self-deportation. Hopefully that'll open up more jobs. There's a lot of people here who will do menial jobs -- maybe not pick lettuce, but these people aren't just picking lettuce any more," says Schwartz.

My newest favorite American... Let's see what Obama has to say to her at her beer summit!

Spiritwalker
04-30-2010, 07:31 PM
EVEN BETTER!

Gaines, who came to the United States as a nurse on a work visa during the Vietnam War and met her current husband, says she thinks immigrants have changed over the years.

"There used to be a level of dignity and self-respect. They were hard-working people who wanted to contribute to American society because it was better than where they came from," says Gaines, a petite woman in her 70s. "But our government has been giving them handouts for so long that now they expect them."

Gaines says SB 1070 mirrors federal law on fortifying the borders, allowing local officials to enforce immigration law in a manner that the federal government should have been doing all along.

"We as Americans have the right to defend this country's laws. There's nothing racist about protecting the country," she says.

Payan, originally from Puerto Rico, hopes the law will deter future illegal immigration.

"I hope it stops trespassers and lets people know the law is the law and you cross that border illegally, it's a crime," she says.

atomdanger
05-01-2010, 02:27 AM
To be honest if any state needs this sort of thing its Arizona.
It was ranked the 5th most dangerous state in 2008,
and the 8th in 2009.

Over 400 murders a year,
1600 rapes, over 9 thousand robberies, 17K assaults, 56K burglaries.

All in 2008.

Buzzard
05-01-2010, 10:09 AM
As long as stops are being done legally and not solely because of a persons race, I'm okay with it. Stopping someone just because of their race isn't a valid reason imo.

J.B.
05-01-2010, 11:13 AM
As long as stops are being done legally and not solely because of a persons race, I'm okay with it. Stopping someone just because of their race isn't a valid reason imo.

Why do people keep reverting back to this argument?

The law specifically states that race cannot be the sole reason for interrogating a suspect about their immigration status.

This law is NOT racist, and it's not promoting racism. Anybody who even suggests that is either completely ignorant or has political motivations.

Buzzard
05-01-2010, 06:56 PM
Why do people keep reverting back to this argument?

The law specifically states that race cannot be the sole reason for interrogating a suspect about their immigration status.

This law is NOT racist, and it's not promoting racism. Anybody who even suggests that is either completely ignorant or has political motivations.

If you read what I said, I wasn't reverting back to anything. I merely stated that if they do so within the confines of the law it is okay, then offered my opinion that stopping someone solely because of their race isn't a valid reason, as demonstrated by the law itself.

J.B.
05-01-2010, 07:13 PM
If you read what I said, I wasn't reverting back to anything. I merely stated that if they do so within the confines of the law it is okay, then offered my opinion that stopping someone solely because of their race isn't a valid reason, as demonstrated by the law itself.

My intention wasn't really to direct that statement at you personally, but rather to make a point in general. I apologize if I came off harsh.

Some people use the very scenario you are suggesting is wrong, and make claims that this law ENDORSES such action, which is totally not the case, as we have established.

Buzzard
05-01-2010, 08:01 PM
My intention wasn't really to direct that statement at you personally, but rather to make a point in general. I apologize if I came off harsh.

Some people use the very scenario you are suggesting is wrong, and make claims that this law ENDORSES such action, which is totally not the case, as we have established.

No apologies needed, but thanks.

Have you read about this?

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Egad!

J.B.
05-01-2010, 08:14 PM
No apologies needed, but thanks.

Have you read about this?

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Egad!

I hadn't heard about that, but I don't see that as a solution to the problem by any means.