PDA

View Full Version : Obama Cancels National day of Prayer


Chris F
04-16-2010, 05:03 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1724544/obama_cancels_national_day_of_prayer.html


Funny how he participated in a Muslim prayer day but Cancels a Christian one because he fears people will be offended.

Chuck
04-16-2010, 05:22 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1724544/obama_cancels_national_day_of_prayer.html


Funny how he participated in a Muslim prayer day but Cancels a Christian one because he fears people will be offended.

It's a hoax. Check Google... it's all good. :wink:

Chris F
04-16-2010, 05:33 AM
Thanks Chuck. I hope it is true.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/prayerday.asp

flo
04-16-2010, 07:30 AM
Snopes is great for fact-checking. Email forwards can range from gospel truth to outright falsehoods. I got one several years ago about the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier that was about 98% correct but whoever initiated it had thrown in a couple strange details that were false.

Chuck
04-16-2010, 02:18 PM
Snopes is great for fact-checking. Email forwards can range from gospel truth to outright falsehoods. I got one several years ago about the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier that was about 98% correct but whoever initiated it had thrown in a couple strange details that were false.

I normally go to www.truthorfiction.com first then snopes... but they're both good!!

Play The Man
04-16-2010, 04:17 PM
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/?test=latestnews

The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.

In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.

"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."

The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."

Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.

"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.

The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.

"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.

Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.

"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next? Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"

Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.

She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.

"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."

The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.

Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."

On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."

"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."

flo
04-16-2010, 05:51 PM
I normally go to www.truthorfiction.com first then snopes... but they're both good!!

Thanks, Chuck, I just bookmarked it.

flo
04-16-2010, 05:58 PM
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/?test=latestnews

This is even worse than the original thread story. :sad:

To have a day of prayer is NOT establishing a religion. I assume one could pray to Gaia or a doorknob. This ruling makes me literally sick to my stomach. Once again, aetheists (Freedon From Religion Foundation people) and idiotic judges (Barbara Crabb) are taking our country down a road to ruin.

I'm glad Lamar Smith is making some noise and I hope the Thomas More Center is appealing.

flo
04-16-2010, 06:02 PM
A Jimmy Carter appointee.

Here's another one of her rulings ~

Barbara Crabb ruled in the case of Siefert v. Alexander, et al., 3:08-cv-126 in which Milwaukee County Circuit Court judge John Siefert had sought the right to join the Democratic party, endorse then Presidential candidate Barack Obama, and personally solicit campaign contributions.

Each of these activities, however, was prohibited by the Wisconsin Code of Judicial Conduct. In March of 2008, Siefert brought suit to the United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin suing all the current sitting members of the Wisconsin Judicial Commission arguing that the restrictions violated his First Amendment rights on the basis of free speech.

On February 18, 2009, Judge Crabb issued her ruling using the similar ruling in Republican Party of Minnesota v. White that the Wisconsin Judicial Commission's stance on the code of judicial conduct violates the first amendment by restricting speech. This ruling could help pave the way for partisan judicial elections in Wisconsin.

We're screwed.

Buzzard
04-17-2010, 06:19 AM
This is even worse than the original thread story. :sad:

To have a day of prayer is NOT establishing a religion. I assume one could pray to Gaia or a doorknob. This ruling makes me literally sick to my stomach. Once again, aetheists (Freedon From Religion Foundation people) and idiotic judges (Barbara Crabb) are taking our country down a road to ruin.

I'm glad Lamar Smith is making some noise and I hope the Thomas More Center is appealing.

It is establishing and endorsing a religious ritual in the government, though not a specific one.

Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.

"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.

"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."

Do people really need a National Day of Prayer to bolster their faith? Are they preventing anyone from praying?

Buzzard
04-17-2010, 06:29 AM
I normally go to www.truthorfiction.com first then snopes... but they're both good!!

Thanks for that link Chuck. I use Snopes.com, but will also use this site now too. I have so many people send me emails with false stuff in them, and I always refer them to Snopes. Even after showing them the stuff is nothing more than rumor, they sometimes get real defensive about it.

To Caveman: I remember a thread from many months ago which you talked about this subject.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/Biblical-Giants.htm

Was this what you were talking about?

flo
04-17-2010, 07:41 AM
The law is not about establishing a "religious ritual". Here are the exact words in the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

This is very clearly referring to the establishment of a specific religion, which the National Day of Prayer does not do.

Yes, people REALLY need a National Day of Prayer. Don't take part if it so offends you.

Buzzard
04-17-2010, 03:33 PM
The law is not about establishing a "religious ritual". Here are the exact words in the first amendment:

Quote:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

This is very clearly referring to the establishment of a specific religion, which the National Day of Prayer does not do.

Yes, people REALLY need a National Day of Prayer. Don't take part if it so offends you.

Your interpretation is different than mine.

I don't need a NDoP, I've gotten along just fine without it. It doesn't offend me one bit, and I won't tale part and never have taken part of it, even when I thought I was a believer.

Can you please explain why people REALLY need a NDoP? I find your statement that people NEED a NDoP to be somewhat silly, no disrespect intended. How does one get by during the 364 days of each year that aren't NDoP's?

Please pray as often as you like, where and whenever you see fit, just please don't waste any more of my tax dollars with any more government endorsements of religious rituals.

Tyburn
04-17-2010, 05:29 PM
The point of the Clause is not to prevent the Government supporting Christianity...its supposed to stop it choosing one denomination over the other...thats why its disestablished...An Established Church endorses one denomination over another...thus as has happened, it can lead to persecution of the Denomination not Chosen.

National Day of Prayer is constitutional...so long as ALL CHRISTIAN CHURCHES can take part...

Tyburn
04-17-2010, 05:34 PM
it doesnt matter :(

flo
04-17-2010, 05:36 PM
Back to scroll-over country...

Tyburn
04-17-2010, 05:46 PM
nevermind :(

flo
04-17-2010, 06:34 PM
I didn't mean you, Tyburn. :wink:

:ninja:

Buzzard
04-17-2010, 10:29 PM
Back to scroll-over country...

Shall I take it that you have no valid answer as to why people NEED a NDoP? We have differing views on things, I'm okay with that. Scroll over if you must, it's what I expected. If you really believe in something, speak your piece. I respect an answer of any sort, at least it shows that you have some conviction.

Tyburn
04-18-2010, 09:24 AM
I didn't mean you, Tyburn. :wink:

:ninja:

:frantics: oh...thank GOD :frantics:

Still :ninja: be our little secret what I wrote...just incase :ninja:

:laugh:

Dethbob
04-18-2010, 09:51 PM
I don't need a NDoP, I've gotten along just fine without it. It doesn't offend me one bit, and I won't tale part and never have taken part of it, even when I thought I was a believer.

Can you please explain why people REALLY need a NDoP? I find your statement that people NEED a NDoP to be somewhat silly, no disrespect intended. How does one get by during the 364 days of each year that aren't NDoP's?

Please pray as often as you like, where and whenever you see fit, just please don't waste any more of my tax dollars with any more government endorsements of religious rituals.

Hmm, maybe it’s not about you. ‘People’ don’t need it, but ‘the people’ do. Civic religion doesn’t make sense to non or former believers the way team spirit doesn’t make sense to skinny goth kids.

Tyburn
04-18-2010, 10:25 PM
Hmm, maybe it’s not about you. ‘People’ don’t need it, but ‘the people’ do. Civic religion doesn’t make sense to non or former believers the way team spirit doesn’t make sense to skinny goth kids.

:laugh: now thats funny! :laugh:

Buzzard
04-19-2010, 06:14 AM
Hmm, maybe it’s not about you. ‘People’ don’t need it, but ‘the people’ do. Civic religion doesn’t make sense to non or former believers the way team spirit doesn’t make sense to skinny goth kids.

Actually it is also about me and other non-believers. We are part of "the people" too. You say that "the people" need it. Can you please elaborate on that? How do you manage to get by on the 364 days that aren't a NDoP?

Pray all you wish, but keep the government out of it. It doesn't really bother me that there is one, but if you let one thing slide, it could set a precedent for others.

Would you be happy if some of your tax dollars were to go to the promotion of a "National Atheist/Agnostic Awareness Day?"

Chris F
04-19-2010, 07:27 AM
Actually it is also about me and other non-believers. We are part of "the people" too. You say that "the people" need it. Can you please elaborate on that? How do you manage to get by on the 364 days that aren't a NDoP?

Pray all you wish, but keep the government out of it. It doesn't really bother me that there is one, but if you let one thing slide, it could set a precedent for others.

Would you be happy if some of your tax dollars were to go to the promotion of a "National Atheist/Agnostic Awareness Day?"

There is such a thing it is on April 1st every year :) NDOP is a tradition nothing more. God does not hear the prayers of unbelievers accept the prayer of repentance so really it is nothing more the an excersise of ritual and therefore meaningless to God. The reason I find it cray Obama would cancel it is that on the campaign trail he played the Christan card when in fact he is by no means a believer.

Buzzard
04-19-2010, 07:44 AM
There is such a thing it is on April 1st every year :)

:laugh::tongue0011:

NDOP is a tradition nothing more. God does not hear the prayers of unbelievers accept the prayer of repentance so really it is nothing more the an excersise of ritual and therefore meaningless to God. The reason I find it cray Obama would cancel it is that on the campaign trail he played the Christan card when in fact he is by no means a believer.

I think you are making an assumption about Obama and whether he is a believer or not. To me it makes no difference. I just hope he does the country right, I'm okay with him in some respects and in others not. In general, I don't really care for any politicians. There are probably some out there who are okay, but I'm not really familiar with them.

I take it that "cray" was a typo for "crazy"? A politician does what needs to be done to win. Trust them as far as you can throw them. We truly need a new bunch, but they will probably turn out as the old ones. The Who's "Won't get fooled again" keeps popping into my mind. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

flo
04-19-2010, 08:05 AM
Buzzard:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1549/olivebranch.jpg

Buzzard
04-19-2010, 08:43 AM
Buzzard:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1549/olivebranch.jpg

Mmm, grapes.:laugh:

Thanks Flo!

Dethbob
04-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Actually it is also about me and other non-believers. We are part of "the people" too. You say that "the people" need it. Can you please elaborate on that?

From Wikipedia: “Jean-Jacques Rousseau coined the term in chapter 8, book 4 of The Social Contract, to describe what he regarded as the moral and spiritual foundation essential for any modern society. For Rousseau, civil religion was intended simply as a form of social cement, helping to unify the state by providing it with sacred authority.”

Without social cohesion it turns for ‘we the people’ to ‘me the armed and angry’ very quickly. Even from a strictly secular, even atheist, viewpoint you can see how people thinking ‘us’ rather than ‘me’ benefits ‘the people’.

How do you manage to get by on the 364 days that aren't a NDoP?

Fine, thanks! See, it’s not about me either, see above.

Would you be happy if some of your tax dollars were to go to the promotion of a "National Atheist/Agnostic Awareness Day?"

I’m not sure how that would help, see above.

CAVEMAN
04-19-2010, 05:39 PM
So to clarify, Obama is not canceling the National Day Of Prayer, he's just not endorsing it or taking part in it?

CAVEMAN
04-19-2010, 06:01 PM
Thanks for that link Chuck. I use Snopes.com, but will also use this site now too. I have so many people send me emails with false stuff in them, and I always refer them to Snopes. Even after showing them the stuff is nothing more than rumor, they sometimes get real defensive about it.

To Caveman: I remember a thread from many months ago which you talked about this subject.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/Biblical-Giants.htm

Was this what you were talking about?

I think it was more about giant human footprints being found in a river bed in Glen Rose Texas. But yes, I have seen these pictures before. A little hard to believe when one picture shows the skull alone being physically larger than an entire human body. However the Bible does state that there were human giants that did walk the earth in old testament days. Goliath according to Hebrew measurements was 9'5" tall. Other bible scholars say 9'9". Even then, much smaller than some of the findings in those pictures.

Tyburn
04-19-2010, 06:14 PM
Can I ask a question.

As I understand it, the big misinterpretation about the freedom of Religion in the United States Consitution, it the ideal that all Faiths should be allowed to do their thang, and the Government shouldnt support one more then the other..so without supporting all, it should support none.

The Missinterpretation I believe is in that word "religion" and what that entails. As I understand it the Constitution was supposed to create a better alternative to the previous set of governances that rulled the American Collonies. Specifically, those rulled by the Crown. A Crown which had jumped, not from different religions, but from different denominations of the same Faith....and with catestrophic consequences, and the bloodshed that bore the Reformation...and forced a lot of people to flee to the Collonial outposts in the first place.

Based on this pragmatism...is it not a better interpretation to say that the American Government, is not supposed to support any one denomination of Christianity, and thus all the different Denominations should be allowed to express themselves?

This would mean the Disestablished Church is not meant to strip the Government of Religion, but to protect people of different Denominations of the same Faith from favouritism that could cause bloodshed by stomping on the Freedoms of a particular denomination.

This would also mean the ideaology of Freedom of Religion, is written into the Constitution to apply in the minds of the Author, to the Christian Religious Denominations only.

Finally...if all of the above is true: can anyone explain to me why the Federal Government granted a Charter to the State Government of the District of Colombia to build "National" Cathedral...and then to make that National Cathedral the Premier of The Episcopal Church...as aposed to any other denomination? I'm all for it...but could you not argue that the whole idea of "National Cathedral" is unconstitutional :huh: Wherease a day for Prayer would be perfectly constitutional so long as, ANY Christian denomination could take part :huh:

Personally...I wish to return to Washington DC, not because I particularly like it as a city (though I dont hate it by any means)...I feel its a bit European infact, far to many tourists, and the layout and design is clearly European... But I actually didnt have time to visit Washington National Cathedral on my ADT2 because I was central, and the Episcopal Seat is in some Northern Suberb on the outskirts and there simply wasnt time to journey out that far.

Here is something else..did you know that when the Nave of Washington National was built, and the Rose Window at the West End in place, the Americans held a special dedication ceremony...and do you know who attended the Ceremony besides the President :huh: ...I assume because it was Episcopal, and they are part of the World Wide Anglican Communion...Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 2nd :w00t: