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View Full Version : Obama embarisses Israeli Prime Minister


Tyburn
03-27-2010, 01:48 PM
So as I outlined before, Israel are trying to develope a little settlement in East Jerusalem...and they have some issues.

England has got pissed off with them and infact effectively deported the Highest ranking Mossad official in London because of the fact Israel supposedly used British Passports to fake, in order to kill a Palestinian Commander in Dubai not so long ago.

Now The United States have told Israel NOT to go ahead with their settlement plans, and have, in effect, backed Palestine claims to the land. So Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (a Great amoung Israel Leaders of new) went to Washington to explain himself before a committee

Netanyahu says that he feels really embarissed. He was kept waiting on Obama for more then an hour, whilst Obama showed his disdain by deciding to have dinner with his family before accepting the audience with Israel. Thats rude...and other Americans have said that Obama does things like this to people who displease him...he uninvites people from State Dinners and the likes. (I posted about that when it happened)

This may be punishment for the fact that the Israeli release of the information about the settlement happened at the same time the Vice President of America was on a State Visit to Israel...and that might have left him feel a little awkward as he wasnt prepared for that.

Many people say that the Coillition Government of Israel that has excluded most of the Leftist wings, is actually responsible...and Netanyahu is now being made to choose between supporting his own government (failure to do so might lead to him being ousted) or rebuilding and retaining good and friendly links and relationships with The Obama Administration.

Chuck
03-27-2010, 03:40 PM
How hussein treated him was disgraceful. I will be truly shocked if he makes it his full term as President.

He's a disgrace.

Crisco
03-27-2010, 03:50 PM
How hussein treated him was disgraceful. I will be truly shocked if he makes it his full term as President.

He's a disgrace.

Your average Obama voter doesn't give a flying frig about how he treats Israel or the implications.

He will be reelected unless someone can steal some of the black vote from him.

donaldbreland
03-27-2010, 04:20 PM
The black vote didn't win Obama this election. In fact there is around 41,000,000 living in the United States.

There are currently 211,460,626 whites living in the united states. I don't want this to be about a Race thing but the Whites are the one who Voted him in. I just don't think he won this election. I think this was a government cover up so there wouldn't be a race war in America if Obama had lost.

Obama will get impeached. He is damaging the U.S. The people aren't gonna take it no more. It's just about time we as Americans stand up and fight without violence and do what we can to get him impeached.

Chuck
03-27-2010, 04:44 PM
The black vote didn't win Obama this election. In fact there is around 41,000,000 living in the United States.

There are currently 211,460,626 whites living in the united states. I don't want this to be about a Race thing but the Whites are the one who Voted him in. I just don't think he won this election. I think this was a government cover up so there wouldn't be a race war in America if Obama had lost.

Obama will get impeached. He is damaging the U.S. The people aren't gonna take it no more. It's just about time we as Americans stand up and fight without violence and do what we can to get him impeached.

What the hell are you talking about????:blink:

rearnakedchoke
03-27-2010, 10:11 PM
the US shouldn't have to kiss anyones ass ... including Israel ...

Crisco
03-27-2010, 10:11 PM
The black vote didn't win Obama this election. In fact there is around 41,000,000 living in the United States.

There are currently 211,460,626 whites living in the united states. I don't want this to be about a Race thing but the Whites are the one who Voted him in. I just don't think he won this election. I think this was a government cover up so there wouldn't be a race war in America if Obama had lost.

Obama will get impeached. He is damaging the U.S. The people aren't gonna take it no more. It's just about time we as Americans stand up and fight without violence and do what we can to get him impeached.

Also on what grounds will he be impeached? He has the senate backing his every move. They are the ones who remove the president not the courts. Ask slick willy.

Crisco
03-27-2010, 10:14 PM
the US shouldn't have to kiss anyones ass ... including Israel ...

When it's your most important ally in the entire world they deserve a little respect. Israel would back us in any war with anybody if we needed them. They have one of the most battle ready Armies in the world. If Israel and and Iran squared up 1 v 1 Iran would be a blank spot on the map. She's the strongest nation in the region.

All none sense aside if we don't back Israel we slide closer to backing Mohammed. I'll be damned if one ****ing cent of my tax dollars go to spreading that heathen rodent spit.

rearnakedchoke
03-27-2010, 10:17 PM
When it's your most important ally in the entire world they deserve a little respect. Israel would back us in any war with anybody if we needed them. They have one of the most battle ready Armies in the world. If Israel and and Iran squared up 1 v 1 Iran would be a blank spot on the map. She's the strongest nation in the region.

All none sense aside if we don't back Israel we slide closer to backing Mohammed. I'll be damned if one ****ing cent of my tax dollars go to spreading that heathen rodent spit.

your country has plenty of ties with arab nations .. almost all recent prez's have had close ties with SA and other nations .... so your tax dollars have already probably been going there already ...

Crisco
03-27-2010, 10:19 PM
your country has plenty of ties with arab nations .. almost all recent prez's have had close ties with SA and other nations .... so your tax dollars have already probably been going there already ...

Yea I know. I get angry about every 2-3 days about it.

Most want alternative fuels for a cleaner planet or what have you. I'd love a new energy source just to break ties with those animals.

The Saudi's are disgusting smile and take our money and send it to the terrorists to use against us.

rearnakedchoke
03-27-2010, 10:22 PM
Yea I know. I get angry about every 2-3 days about it.

Most want alternative fuels for a cleaner planet or what have you. I'd love a new energy source just to break ties with those animals.

The Saudi's are disgusting smile and take our money and send it to the terrorists to use against us.

i agree .. and until something comes up, they have the world by the balls ...

Crisco
03-27-2010, 10:27 PM
i agree .. and until something comes up, they have the world by the balls ...

What happened to the good old days when if we wanted resources we just took them? haha.

Damn liberals turned us soft.

flo
03-27-2010, 11:06 PM
When it's your most important ally in the entire world they deserve a little respect. Israel would back us in any war with anybody if we needed them. They have one of the most battle ready Armies in the world. If Israel and and Iran squared up 1 v 1 Iran would be a blank spot on the map. She's the strongest nation in the region.



Word.

I wish BO was HALF the statesman Benjamin Netanyahu is.

BO couldn't pack his lunch.

mscomc
03-27-2010, 11:35 PM
When it's your most important ally in the entire world they deserve a little respect. Israel would back us in any war with anybody if we needed them. They have one of the most battle ready Armies in the world. If Israel and and Iran squared up 1 v 1 Iran would be a blank spot on the map. She's the strongest nation in the region.

All none sense aside if we don't back Israel we slide closer to backing Mohammed. I'll be damned if one ****ing cent of my tax dollars go to spreading that heathen rodent spit.

Well, I think you have bigger allies...you know to the north a little :Whistle: ...:laugh:

Plus, the only real reason israel has has such a strong army is because of US has given them countless: weapons, jets, tanks, technology and MONEY. That the reason they will "back you" (you back them?). They didnt get that way by themselves.

"Since 1976, Israel had been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance. In 2004, Israel received $2.16 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants from the Department of Defense" http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/cbj/

You give any nation all that, and they will become your allies.

mscomc
03-27-2010, 11:42 PM
Yea I know. I get angry about every 2-3 days about it.

Most want alternative fuels for a cleaner planet or what have you. I'd love a new energy source just to break ties with those animals.
The Saudi's are disgusting smile and take our money and send it to the terrorists to use against us.

Well, a new energy source alone would not be enough to sever ties in my oppinion.

SA, has way to much money invested in US banks. As I recall, ONE sadui prince has around 3 billion dollars invested in Citigroup (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MarketTalk/story?id=5398191&page=1)

One the whole, the entire kingdom has close to 1 trillon dollars I beleive. If they were to ever remove those funds from the US banks.... :unsure-1:you think the depression is bad now?????

Hey, its the same deal in my country, and with all the other G8 countries.

flo
03-27-2010, 11:49 PM
The US was in support of the Balfour Declaration 3 decades before the Jews established and returned to their homeland, Israel. So our support, and their loyalty as an ally, is NOT dependent of our financial aid. Every president knows that we MUST support them as they are the only stable democracy in the region.

Israel's advances in medicine, technology, art, all sciences, etc., equal or surpass any country, per capita.

flo
03-27-2010, 11:52 PM
Just one example of Israeli awesomeness:

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4551/uzi2.jpg

mscomc
03-28-2010, 12:02 AM
The US was in support of the Balfour Declaration 3 decades before the Jews established and returned to their homeland, Israel. So our support, and their loyalty as an ally, is NOT dependent of our financial aid. Every president knows that we MUST support them as they are the only stable democracy in the region.

Israel's advances in medicine, technology, art, all sciences, etc., equal or surpass any country, per capita.

Yeah, they became the most stable country in the region from US AID. my point exactly...or maybe I didnt explicitly say that? oh well.

In regards to your second point... well since I am in the medical science field, please tell me what they have done? I mean really. If you are suggesting that they have made advnaces that are "relatively" faster than other countries, ok, maybe I will give you that. But in terms of: new drugs, new technologies, new process for science work...I know of nothing of real significance. North america and Western Europe still hold the strongpoint. At the last major conference I attended in California, there was not a single israel scientist. And we had people, from london, germany, the Us, Canada, Russia etc etc.

BUT!!! we can also go back to the word 'aid'! for the most part, top israel scientists have had their major training in the US, or london, or switzerland. And whatever contributions they have made, were all possible by grants and investments from the U.S. Thats my oppinion, you may disagree, and thats fine.

So whats my point? Israel became as graet as it is, because of all the aid it got. Be it in the form of money, army, technology etc. If you sent all the stuff to lets say....sierra leone, it would become a superpower to.

flo
03-28-2010, 12:20 AM
Yeah, they became the most stable country in the region from US AID. my point exactly...or maybe I didnt explicitly say that? oh well.



Why do you have to be sarcastic about it? I was polite in response to you.

I disagree. It wasn't US aid that won the 6-Day War, check it out.

flo
03-28-2010, 12:29 AM
Here is just a recent Israeli breakthrough in medical technology.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091117124015.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+sciencedaily+(ScienceDaily:+Lat est+Science+News)

Here is a link to Israeli 2009 Nobel award in Chemistry.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3786746,00.html

There are many, many more but I have a feeling your mind is already made up.

flo
03-28-2010, 12:47 AM
Another:



(http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1076671.html)

These are just from last year. Doesn't take into account their contributions from the last 50 years.

flo
03-28-2010, 12:59 AM
My link was invisible. Here it is for those without xray vision:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1076671.html

mscomc
03-28-2010, 01:25 AM
Why do you have to be sarcastic about it? I was polite in response to you.

I disagree. It wasn't US aid that won the 6-Day War, check it out.

Well, I am sorry If you feel I was being sacrcastic. I was not my intention. I think I articulated that the wrong way. So forgive me for that.

And the links you posted, speak very little to me. I have seen FAR more advanced and spectacular advances then those. And so what? the 2009 nobel prize winner was from israel, ok. I mean good for her, its an amaizing acomplishment. But I could just as easily post FAR more incredible acheivements and people who are constantly published in medical journals from the countries I eluded to. Plus, did you really read up on her career. Look at where she got some of her major training: Carnegie Mellon University, MIT, the Max Planck institute, and the University of Chicago. Then she went back to israel.

Garandshooter
03-28-2010, 01:32 AM
I support the Jews. Everyone else in that part of the world want's to kill them, and then us. But I'm a pig eating infadel.:punch:

mscomc
03-28-2010, 01:34 AM
Why do you have to be sarcastic about it? I was polite in response to you.

I disagree. It wasn't US aid that won the 6-Day War, check it out.

Oh I have checked it out. And there is still alot of un-answered questions about that. And plenty of people say that US did aid israel in that.

"May 23, President Johnson secretly authorized supplying Israel by air with a variety of arms systems" http://books.google.com/books?id=Zklm91y8exkC&pg=PA88&dq=Green+Israel+reconnaissance+1967+Stephen&lr=&cd=16#v=onepage&q=Green%20Israel%20reconnaissance%201967%20Stephen&f=false

"the United States sent reconnaissance aircraft to track nighttime movement of Egyptian ground forces in order to facilitate daytime Israeli air attacks that proved important for Israel's advances" http://books.google.com/books?id=cZCRAAAAIAAJ&q=America%27s+Secret+Relations+With+a+Militant+Isr ael.+Author+Stephen+J.+Green.&dq=America%27s+Secret+Relations+With+a+Militant+Is rael.+Author+Stephen+J.+Green.&cd=2

And many more.........

------------- Ok, I know what you are thinking. These are just a few guys who say this. You are right, and I know there are people who try to debunk this info. So I do not take it at full value. But this coupled with that Israel had as an army, versus what the Arabs had, and how Israel still won, is a little suspect to me.

Anyway, I am sorry, I didnt mean to stir an big argument. Lets just agree to disagree. Truce?:wink:

mscomc
03-28-2010, 01:36 AM
My link was invisible. Here it is for those without xray vision:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1076671.html

AHAHAHAH , MAY help skin cancer, MAY.

I been a researcher too long to know what that means. Nice try though.

Anyway, I am sorry, I didnt mean to stir an big argument. Lets just agree to disagree. Truce? :)

NateR
03-28-2010, 01:37 AM
So whats my point? Israel became as graet as it is, because of all the aid it got. Be it in the form of money, army, technology etc. If you sent all the stuff to lets say....sierra leone, it would become a superpower to.

I disagree with that completely. History has shown us that throwing money at someone doesn't automatically improve their lives.

Did you receive any scholarships or grants to get your college degree (I'm assuming you have quite a bit of education, considering the job field you work in)? If you did receive money from outside sources, does that mean that these organizations funding your education did all of your studying and took all of your tests for you to ensure that you passed all of your classes? No. You still had to do all of the hard work yourself even with money coming in from outside sources.

It's the same with Israel. We've thrown money at countries before only to watch them degrade into chaos. Israel just happened to be one of our more successful investments. We have no one to thank for that except the Israelis themselves and GOD in Heaven. :)

mscomc
03-28-2010, 01:42 AM
I disagree with that completely. History has shown us that throwing money at someone doesn't automatically improve their lives.

Did you receive any scholarships or grants to get your college degree (I'm assuming you have quite a bit of education, considering the job field you work in)? If you did receive money from outside sources, does that mean that these organizations funding your education did all of your studying and took all of your tests for you to ensure that you passed all of your classes? No. You still had to do all of the hard work yourself even with money coming in from outside sources.

It's the same with Israel. We've thrown money at countries before only to watch them degrade into chaos. Israel just happened to be one of our more successful investments. We have no one to thank for that except the Israelis themselves and GOD in Heaven. :)

tisk tisk tisk Nate, I didnt just say MONEY. I listed several things. Money was one, so was army support and technology. There has also been hugh investments in infrastructure, many israel scientists and engineers have come to the states for advanced training that only the western world has to offer.

You are right, you can't just throw money at something, I agree with that. But the US gave Israel more then just that. They gave them a HUGE hand of support. Has the US shared the same amount of money, weapons, technology with any other country in the middle east? or any other country NOT in the G8? such as southern africa for example? I dont think so. Try doing EXACTLY, and I mean Exactly what the US did for israel for another country, and watch how it changes.

Anyway, you have your views, I have mine. I am sorry, I didnt mean to stir the pot, I apologize.

NateR
03-28-2010, 01:49 AM
tisk tisk tisk Nate, I didnt just say MONEY. I listed several things. Money was one, so was army support and technology. There has also been hugh investments in infrastructure, many israel scientists and engineers have come to the states for advanced training that only the western world has to offer.

You are right, you can just throw money at something, I agree with that. But the US gave Israel more then just that. They gave them a HUGE hand of support. Has the US shared the same amount of money, weapons, technology with any other country in the middle east? or any other country NOT in the G8? such as southern africa for example? I dont think so.

Anyway, you have your views, I have mine. I am sorry, I didnt mean to stir the pot, I apologize.

I see nothing wrong with that, we support our allies in any way we can. However, it is the Hand of GOD that deserves all the credit for Israel's success against such impossible odds.

Israel is a special case since they are GOD's Chosen People, so we need to do everything we can to build them up. Anyone who is an enemy of Israel is an enemy of GOD Himself, so if our government wasn't supporting Israel, you can be sure that we would have never risen to the position of being the world's sole remaining super power.

So, we've helped put Israel (a democratic nations surrounded by Muslim tyrannies) in the position they are in and, in return, GOD has blessed the United States and made us into one of the world's most powerful nations.

NateR
03-28-2010, 02:19 AM
the US shouldn't have to kiss anyones ass ... including Israel ...

It's not ass-kissing, it's called respect for a fellow world leader. It's not like anyone expects him to bow down the Israeli Prime Minister, he only does that to Saudi Arabian royalty. :rolleyes:

However, I find it funny that Obama shows more respect for the tyrannical leaders of the Muslim world than he does for the democratically elected leader of the only free nation in the Middle East.

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 05:40 AM
What the hell are you talking about????:blink:

I do not believe that Obama won this election the right way. I think the polls were rigged. One reason I believe this is because what do you think would have happened in Obama had lost. This was one of the first elections that a man of Color had a real chance of winning presidency. I don't know how it is in other states but I know here in South Carolina blacks were already saying that if Obama didn't win they were going to riot. I know this may sound crazy but if he didn't win do you think that there would not have been riots in America. The way I see it this election was given to Obama in hopes of stopping Racism in America.

My other thought is that this was planned for many years for someone to come in and tear our Country apart. Look whats happening with Israel. Obama is a socialist and wants to have a one world government. Whats the best way to make that happen. Weaken our Country by breaking us Americans. Take our food away from us. Take our power away from us. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama isn't giving restricted information to China or Russia. I don't know I am confused at this mess. I am just tired of whats going on in our Country and we are just sitting here letting it happen.

rearnakedchoke
03-28-2010, 05:42 AM
I do not believe that Obama won this election the right way. I think the polls were rigged. One reason I believe this is because what do you think would have happened in Obama had lost. This was one of the first elections that a man of Color had a real chance of winning presidency. I don't know how it is in other states but I know here in South Carolina blacks were already saying that if Obama didn't win they were going to riot. I know this may sound crazy but if he didn't win do you think that there would not have been riots in America. The way I see it this election was given to Obama in hopes of stopping Racism in America.

My other thought is that this was planned for many years for someone to come in and tear our Country apart. Look whats happening with Israel. Obama is a socialist and wants to have a one world government. Whats the best way to make that happen. Weaken our Country by breaking us Americans. Take our food away from us. Take our power away from us. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama isn't giving restricted information to China or Russia. I don't know I am confused at this mess. I am just tired of whats going on in our Country and we are just sitting here letting it happen.

are you saying white people don't have the ability to vote for a black man?

rearnakedchoke
03-28-2010, 05:48 AM
It's not ass-kissing, it's called respect for a fellow world leader. It's not like anyone expects him to bow down the Israeli Prime Minister, he only does that to Saudi Arabian royalty. :rolleyes:

However, I find it funny that Obama shows more respect for the tyrannical leaders of the Muslim world than he does for the democratically elected leader of the only free nation in the Middle East.

there are plenty of pics of bush holding hands and walking with middle eastern leaders, but when obama bows, that is a big deal ... i'd rather bow to a man than hold his hand and go for a walk ... yea yea, i know that is tradition over there, but still ...

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 05:48 AM
The black vote didn't win Obama this election. In fact there is around 41,000,000 living in the United States.

There are currently 211,460,626 whites living in the united states. I don't want this to be about a Race thing but the Whites are the one who Voted him in. I just don't think he won this election. I think this was a government cover up so there wouldn't be a race war in America if Obama had lost.

Obama will get impeached. He is damaging the U.S. The people aren't gonna take it no more. It's just about time we as Americans stand up and fight without violence and do what we can to get him impeached.

I do think they voted him in if the voting was legit.

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 05:49 AM
Your average Obama voter doesn't give a flying frig about how he treats Israel or the implications.

He will be reelected unless someone can steal some of the black vote from him.

This is what I was referring to.

rearnakedchoke
03-28-2010, 05:52 AM
This is what I was referring to.

ok ... the us pop is like 15% black ... now that's probably 5% voting pop ... so it wasn't really the black viote that won it for obama ...

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 06:05 AM
I think that the black man did help him win the election. If it was done right. Personally I do not want to see any President win by having a majority of one color vote for him.I have heard many black comedians say that they didn't know anything about Obama but they voted for him because of his color. I think that is wrong. What happens if the next time around we don't vote a Black man in because of his color. He may be the best for the job and if we do not vote him in then that's racist. I am against that believe it or not. I want everyone to have a fair chance as long as we are not at war with people of their kind. I honestly wanted Colin Powell to be our first black President because he was right for the job. I don't think now he will have a shot because of Obama. I think some crazy white people will have more to blame on the Black man and prevent a good black candidate from winning Presidency the next time around. I think Obama is bad for our Country in so many ways and I still don't understand why a man with two names got voted in. Barry Sorieto and Barack Hussein Obama. I don't understand how a man with the middle name Hussein won our Presidency. I don't know what to believe or not believe about him and his name and religion.

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 06:10 AM
I would like to see a man come in and run for President who can capture the votes by being the best candidate for the Job. I would like to see someone with military experience. I would also like to see the President and the Vice President be voted in by who wins the presidential election. Whoever loses should be vice. That way the two best people that America thinks deserve to be President gets to be president and Vice. That way they could learn how to work together and work on bills that both sides agree on.

rearnakedchoke
03-28-2010, 06:12 AM
I would like to see a man come in and run for President who can capture the votes by being the best candidate for the Job. I would like to see someone with military experience. I would also like to see the President and the Vice President be voted in by who wins the presidential election. Whoever loses should be vice. That way the two best people that America thinks deserve to be President gets to be president and Vice. That way they could learn how to work together and work on bills that both sides agree on.

i agree that obama was voted in by most people not because he seemed to be the best person for the job, but the best personality .. but i think that had to do with who he was running against ... the opposition should have put up a better fight ...

mscomc
03-28-2010, 06:13 AM
I think that the black man did help him win the election. If it was done right. Personally I do not want to see any President win by having a majority of one color vote for him.I have heard many black comedians say that they didn't know anything about Obama but they voted for him because of his color. I think that is wrong. What happens if the next time around we don't vote a Black man in because of his color. He may be the best for the job and if we do not vote him in then that's racist. I am against that believe it or not. I want everyone to have a fair chance as long as we are not at war with people of their kind. I honestly wanted Colin Powell to be our first black President because he was right for the job. I don't think now he will have a shot because of Obama. I think some crazy white people will have more to blame on the Black man and prevent a good black candidate from winning Presidency the next time around. I think Obama is bad for our Country in so many ways and I still don't understand why a man with two names got voted in. Barry Sorieto and Barack Hussein Obama. I don't understand how a man with the middle name Hussein won our Presidency. I don't know what to believe or not believe about him and his name and religion.

But if you do not know what to beleive, as you have eluded to. Than why are you posting things that constantly drag down his: name, what religion you think he belongs to? If you do not know what to believe. It seems to me that you believe something very clearly. If that is the case dont back-peddle.

mscomc
03-28-2010, 06:14 AM
I would like to see a man come in and run for President who can capture the votes by being the best candidate for the Job. I would like to see someone with military experience. I would also like to see the President and the Vice President be voted in by who wins the presidential election. Whoever loses should be vice. That way the two best people that America thinks deserve to be President gets to be president and Vice. That way they could learn how to work together and work on bills that both sides agree on.

That is actually not a bad idea, but is it practical?

donaldbreland
03-28-2010, 06:32 AM
I am sitting here like most Americans and for once in my life I a bit clueless on thoughts these days. I want whats best for my kids and your kids and everyone in this Country's kid. I do not see a third party coming in and winning the election. It's going to have to be democrat or republican. If Obama was president and McCain was vice do you think that we would have an argument over the democrat and the republican party. I don't think we would. I think we would have a much better health care bill that this country agrees on. I think too many people are voting on party instead of person. there are some good democrats and good republicans. Just like there are bad on each side as well. I think our country truly needs a better system of how we choose our President/vice.

mscomc
03-28-2010, 07:04 AM
I am sitting here like most Americans and for once in my life I a bit clueless on thoughts these days. I want whats best for my kids and your kids and everyone in this Country's kid. I do not see a third party coming in and winning the election. It's going to have to be democrat or republican. If Obama was president and McCain was vice do you think that we would have an argument over the democrat and the republican party. I don't think we would. I think we would have a much better health care bill that this country agrees on. I think too many people are voting on party instead of person. there are some good democrats and good republicans. Just like there are bad on each side as well. I think our country truly needs a better system of how we choose our President/vice.

Good!!!!!:wink:
You see, this is creating an open dialogue and debate. Keep it up.

I agree, most politicians seem to turn the election into a "pissing" contest. Both are trying to say "I am better than you", but most of the time, they are thinking of their own agendas, and not the people. Its like that in all countries unfortunately.

Tyburn
03-28-2010, 07:27 AM
It's not ass-kissing, it's called respect for a fellow world leader. It's not like anyone expects him to bow down the Israeli Prime Minister, he only does that to Saudi Arabian royalty. :rolleyes:

However, I find it funny that Obama shows more respect for the tyrannical leaders of the Muslim world than he does for the democratically elected leader of the only free nation in the Middle East.

I aggree.

The debate isnt about who funds Israel, or how they hold things together. The debate is...why would you as the worlds most powerful man, be rude like that to anyone...where is the example that your setting?

Obama shouldnt be rude like that to any world leader. Its not about kissing ass...its about respect for another Human Being....pride comes before a fall..and him thinking that because he's the President of the US, and because Benjamin has said something that upset him...means he should be marginalised, left and kept waiting, to show how small he is...its not the actions of a Good Christian Man...Is it Nathan :huh:

Just because someone is rude to you, or does something you dont like, doesnt mean you have the right to treat them bad. Does it Nathan :huh: Well if that applies to you and me...why doesnt it apply to Barack Obama :ninja:

NateR
03-28-2010, 02:35 PM
there are plenty of pics of bush holding hands and walking with middle eastern leaders, but when obama bows, that is a big deal ... i'd rather bow to a man than hold his hand and go for a walk ... yea yea, i know that is tradition over there, but still ...

No American President has ever bowed to a foreign king. What Obama did was a disgrace to the Presidency, to the principles of our Founding Fathers and to the American people. It was not an act of respect, it was an act of subservience, which only served to reveal Obama's incompetence when it comes to foreign affairs.

Bush holding hands with the Saudi Leader had a completely different cultural meaning. It was a gesture of friendship, not an act of servitude.

flo
03-28-2010, 08:14 PM
"HOW TO DIVEST FROM ISRAEL PROPERLY?"

http://www.take-a-pen.org/english/Articles/Art04012005.htm

NateR
03-29-2010, 02:58 AM
"HOW TO DIVEST FROM ISRAEL PROPERLY?"

http://www.take-a-pen.org/english/Articles/Art04012005.htm

Excellent article! People also tend to ignore how well the Israelis treat the Palestinians despite how much the Palestinians hate them. Under Israeli rule, the Palestinians enjoy:

Freedom of religion (even though their religion claims that Jews are descended from pigs and need to be exterminated)
Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
The right to peacefully assemble
The right to vote
Equal rights for women


They would have none of those rights or freedoms under Muslim law.

Israel is the most civilized nation in that entire region and it pisses me off when cowards want us to pull our support from that country just because it's inconvenient for us.

J.B.
03-29-2010, 06:09 PM
ok ... the us pop is like 15% black ... now that's probably 5% voting pop ... so it wasn't really the black viote that won it for obama ...

No other presidential candidate has ever received 98% of the African-American vote in this country. So, it most certainly played a major role in the election.

I will come right out and say it because it's true. A lot of un-educated voters went out and voted for Obama JUST because he is black. Some people were just gonna vote Democrat no matter what, but a lot of people felt obligated to vote for Obama. As if NOT voting for him would somehow turn them into a racist.

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 06:19 PM
No other presidential candidate has ever received 98% of the African-American vote in this country. So, it most certainly played a major role in the election.

I will come right out and say it because it's true. A lot of un-educated voters went out and voted for Obama JUST because he is black. Some people were just gonna vote Democrat no matter what, but a lot of people felt obligated to vote for Obama. As if NOT voting for him would somehow turn them into a racist.

not to start the race thing, but i am sure there were more whites that didn't want a black pres, than blacks that wanted a black pres ...

J.B.
03-29-2010, 06:26 PM
not to start the race thing, but i am sure there were more whites that didn't want a black pres, than blacks that wanted a black pres ...

If that were REALLY true, they would have come out in droves to vote for McCain.

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 06:29 PM
If that were REALLY true, they would have come out in droves to vote for McCain.

i didn't say all white people didn't want a black president ...

Bonnie
03-29-2010, 06:38 PM
No other presidential candidate has ever received 98% of the African-American vote in this country. So, it most certainly played a major role in the election.

I will come right out and say it because it's true. A lot of un-educated voters went out and voted for Obama JUST because he is black. Some people were just gonna vote Democrat no matter what, but a lot of people felt obligated to vote for Obama. As if NOT voting for him would somehow turn them into a racist.

I think you're right, JB. It wasn't just the un-educated voters either. There were a few, maybe several, high-ranking black leaders who had already pledged their vote/support to Hillary Clinton that dumped her to jump on the Obama bandwagon. I'm not sure if they felt pressured to do so, but I thought that was a ****** thing to do. If they thought he was the right one for the job, they should have been backing him from the get-go.

flo
03-29-2010, 06:54 PM
I think you're right, JB. It wasn't just the un-educated voters either. There were a few, maybe several, high-ranking black leaders who had already pledged their vote/support to Hillary Clinton that dumped her to jump on the Obama bandwagon. I'm not sure if they felt pressured to do so, but I thought that was a ****** thing to do. If they thought he was the right one for the job, they should have been backing him from the get-go.

Yeah, I was kind of stunned at the time how the party loyalists threw Hillary under the bus with Reverend Wright and grandma.

Just for me personally, I didn't want to vote for either McCain or Obama. I was a Giuliani supporter with Romney as my 2nd choice.

I think JB is right that a lot of people voted for Obama because it was a historic choice. I'm a conservative but I was very moved by BO's speech right before the election.

Of course, now we're all seeing just how much hoohaw those campaign promises were. It's "change" all right...heaven help us.

J.B.
03-29-2010, 06:58 PM
i didn't say all white people didn't want a black president ...

I realize that, but you did say that more white people did NOT want Obama than black people DID want Obama.

That is misleading, and that logic operates under an assumption that there is not a lot of hardcore evidence to support. It makes it seem as if there was some sort of racial push AGAINST Obama that was larger than the racial push FOR Obama. Of course we know that there are crazy uneducated racists on both sides, but the fact is that there is clear evidence to show that the majority of the black vote was racially motivated in the last election.

I don't have the time to do serious digging right now, but even this snippet from Wikipedia is very telling.

African American turnout increased from 11.1% of the electorate in 2004 to 13.0% in 2008.[186] According to exit polls, over 95% of African Americans voted for Barack Obama. This played a critical role in southern states such as North Carolina. 74% of North Carolina's registered African American voters turned out, as opposed to 69% of North Carolinians in general, with Obama carrying an unprecedented 100%[citation needed] (with rounding) of African American females and African Americans age 18 to 29, according to exit polling.[187] This was the case in Virginia as well where much higher turnout among African Americans propelled Obama to victory in the former Republican stronghold.[188] Even in southern states where Obama was unsuccessful, such as Georgia and Mississippi, due to large African American turnout he was much more competitive than John Kerry in 2004

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 07:07 PM
no, but if you go based on numbers of whites and blacks in the US, even a small percentage of whites who didn't want a black pres may have been more than the black vote ... i could be wrong ... here is something from wikipedia, maybe i am reading this wrong ...

An October 17–20, 2008 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll showed among registered voters race made 2% more likely to vote for Barack Obama and made 4% less likely to vote for Barack Obama. Those not sure how it swayed them were 2%, and race was not a major factor in the other 92% (margin of error was 2.9).[147]

so is this saying that 2% of the pop voted him because he was black and 4% voted didn't vote for him because he was black ... if so, it doesn't say what the race of the people are and it is possible that blacks didn't vote for him because he was black, but it was probably majority whites, hispanics and asians ...

and these polls are not scientific because of the double standard ... it is easier for a black person to be more open to say he voted obama based on race, than it is for a white person to say they didn't vote because of his race ... both ways is racist ..

J.B.
03-29-2010, 07:28 PM
and these polls are not scientific because of the double standard ... it is easier for a black person to be more open to say he voted obama based on race, than it is for a white person to say they didn't vote because of his race ... both ways is racist ..

Exactly, and lets just ignore the links and ridiculous numbers, because this is a crux of the issue I was pointing to. We could both find numbers and links to back up our opinions, but the real issue here is what we can actually see on the surface.

Many people felt before the 2008 election that Obama would NOT win because the majority of white people would come out and vote against him, clearly that was not the case. However, still to this day, it is common for critics of Obama to be labeled racists by certain people even if they are only talking about the issues and not race.

The fact of the matter is that this country has a lot of what is called "white-guilt", and that was also a part of the election that directly and indirectly affected the voting too. Many white people voted for him just because he is black, and because NOT voting for him would alienate them in some circles. It may sound silly, but I know people who are like that first hand.

Bottom line, Obama got in because he is black and that represented something DIFFERENT to people. Some likely don't even see the racism in that, but it's racism all the same.

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 07:34 PM
is still say race was only part of the reason he got elected ... Bush had a low approval rating and to most people, McCains just seemed like he'd be another bush ... I think the Reps made a mistake choosing him as their candidate and the dems jumped on that .. but whatever ..

donaldbreland
03-29-2010, 07:38 PM
I know this is wrong but I think the reason Mccain lost was because of Palin. I like Palin but no one knew much about her. We already had a chance to have our first black president. many didn't want to see the first woman as vice president. I think it was all wrong. I would have liked to see McCain run with Huckabee or Romney. I don't think he would have won but it would have been very close.

Neezar
03-29-2010, 07:43 PM
no, but if you go based on numbers of whites and blacks in the US, even a small percentage of whites who didn't want a black pres may have been more than the black vote ... i could be wrong ... here is something from wikipedia, maybe i am reading this wrong ...

An October 1720, 2008 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll showed among registered voters race made 2% more likely to vote for Barack Obama and made 4% less likely to vote for Barack Obama. Those not sure how it swayed them were 2%, and race was not a major factor in the other 92% (margin of error was 2.9).[147]

so is this saying that 2% of the pop voted him because he was black and 4% voted didn't vote for him because he was black (No, this is a poll asking a different question?) ... if so, it doesn't say what the race of the people are and it is possible that blacks didn't vote for him because he was black, but it was probably majority whites, hispanics and asians ...
Why would you think this?

and these polls are not scientific because of the double standard ... it is easier for a black person to be more open to say he voted obama based on race, (I disagree here.) than it is for a white person to say they didn't vote because of his race ... both ways is racist ..


When was this poll again?

J.B.
03-29-2010, 07:53 PM
is still say race was only part of the reason he got elected ... Bush had a low approval rating and to most people, McCains just seemed like he'd be another bush ... I think the Reps made a mistake choosing him as their candidate and the dems jumped on that .. but whatever ..

Obama has a low approval rating too, and Clinton was a liar. Controlling parties change all the time, but this was the first time there was a black candidate that actually stood a chance of winning, and he won by a very large margin in comparison to other elections.

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 07:56 PM
Obama has a low approval rating too, and Clinton was a liar. Controlling parties change all the time, but this was the first time there was a black candidate that actually stood a chance of winning, and he won by a very large margin in comparison to other elections.

yeah, that is why i think obama will be gone after the next election .. but i don't think it is accurate to say he won solely based on race.

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 07:58 PM
When was this poll again?

well, because i think if blacks weren't going to vote for him, it would more likely be his campaign and not the fact that they wouldn't want to see a black leader ... but like i said, i can't say that for sure ...

i think it was oct 2008 ...

Bonnie
03-29-2010, 08:23 PM
Exactly, and lets just ignore the links and ridiculous numbers, because this is a crux of the issue I was pointing to. We could both find numbers and links to back up our opinions, but the real issue here is what we can actually see on the surface.

Many people felt before the 2008 election that Obama would NOT win because the majority of white people would come out and vote against him, clearly that was not the case. However, still to this day, it is common for critics of Obama to be labeled racists by certain people even if they are only talking about the issues and not race.

The fact of the matter is that this country has a lot of what is called "white-guilt", and that was also a part of the election that directly and indirectly affected the voting too. Many white people voted for him just because he is black, and because NOT voting for him would alienate them in some circles. It may sound silly, but I know people who are like that first hand.

Bottom line, Obama got in because he is black and that represented something DIFFERENT to people. Some likely don't even see the racism in that, but it's racism all the same.

Is that what made it MORE important (historically) to vote in the first black president versus the first WOMAN president? And I'm not saying she would have been elected, but it would have been something DIFFERENT also.

If we took away what we knew about the candidates as far as race, sex, social status, financial status, religious affiliations, and who there're married to, and only voted on what we knew about their body of work as an elected official, who would we vote for? I know this isn't a "realistic" situation I'm creating; I'm just trying to make people think about what we're really putting into our decision when we vote for someone....especially the President.

Maybe if we could do that, we could more easily "separate the wheat from the chaff".

(sorry, I know we've gotten "off-topic")

Tyburn
03-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I dont understand a word of what you guys are talking about :blink:

rearnakedchoke
03-29-2010, 09:01 PM
I dont understand a word of what you guys are talking about :blink:

huh? impossible .. i thought you know what others don't???

haha .. just kidding ...

J.B.
03-29-2010, 10:14 PM
yeah, that is why i think obama will be gone after the next election .. but i don't think it is accurate to say he won solely based on race.

Of course it's not the ONLY reason, I would like to think there ARE still people who make informed decisions, even if they are ones I don't agree with. :laugh:

Still, I think that race was the driving factor that fueled the majority of the uninformed votes and the unprecedented voter turnout, which was, in turn, precisely what got Obama elected.

donaldbreland
03-29-2010, 10:24 PM
Is that what made it MORE important (historically) to vote in the first black president versus the first WOMAN president? And I'm not saying she would have been elected, but it would have been something DIFFERENT also.

If we took away what we knew about the candidates as far as race, sex, social status, financial status, religious affiliations, and who there're married to, and only voted on what we knew about their body of work as an elected official, who would we vote for? I know this isn't a "realistic" situation I'm creating; I'm just trying to make people think about what we're really putting into our decision when we vote for someone....especially the President.

Maybe if we could do that, we could more easily "separate the wheat from the chaff".

(sorry, I know we've gotten "off-topic")

This is exactly the way we should vote. I wish we would do away with parties all together. I think we should vote on someone for what they can do or have already done for us.

J.B.
03-29-2010, 10:42 PM
Is that what made it MORE important (historically) to vote in the first black president versus the first WOMAN president? And I'm not saying she would have been elected, but it would have been something DIFFERENT also.

If we took away what we knew about the candidates as far as race, sex, social status, financial status, religious affiliations, and who there're married to, and only voted on what we knew about their body of work as an elected official, who would we vote for? I know this isn't a "realistic" situation I'm creating; I'm just trying to make people think about what we're really putting into our decision when we vote for someone....especially the President.

Maybe if we could do that, we could more easily "separate the wheat from the chaff".

(sorry, I know we've gotten "off-topic")

You raise interesting questions....

Obviously, I don't know the exact answer, but I will gladly offer my opinion.

First off...lovely ladies of the forum...don't kill the messenger here...:ninja:

I think it will be a lot harder for a woman to get elected than a black man, or any "man" for that matter. Even with all of the strides we have made in equal rights, especially in this country, I still don't think we have reached a point where most people (generally men) are going to feel comfortable with a woman at the head of our armed forces. Women and men who are in the public spotlight are perceived very differently by the masses, and while it may not be "fair", it's a fact of life. The one thing that killed Sarah Palin in my opinion is the same exact thing that also has made her such a celebrity; she is an attractive woman.

I think that makes a lot of people not take her seriously before they even hear what she has to say. At the same time, I also think it makes some conservatives just blindly love her to death. Then, I think there are some women who just don't like her because she is a woman (I know that may sound crazy to some, but some girls seem to have this thing where they just hate other girls, any ladies of the forum are welcomed to explain this if they have any insight :laugh:)

To answer your second question, I think if we took away everything except the issues we would barely have anybody voting. The truth is, from my personal experience, 95% of the people in the streets don't know diddly squat about the issues, even around election time. That's not to say people don't care, they just don't care MORE than what is going on in their daily lives.

Good questions though Bonnie, those really made me think. :wink:

Bonnie
03-30-2010, 12:53 AM
You raise interesting questions....

Obviously, I don't know the exact answer, but I will gladly offer my opinion.

First off...lovely ladies of the forum...don't kill the messenger here...:ninja:

I think it will be a lot harder for a woman to get elected than a black man, or any "man" for that matter. Even with all of the strides we have made in equal rights, especially in this country, I still don't think we have reached a point where most people (generally men) are going to feel comfortable with a woman at the head of our armed forces. Women and men who are in the public spotlight are perceived very differently by the masses, and while it may not be "fair", it's a fact of life. The one thing that killed Sarah Palin in my opinion is the same exact thing that also has made her such a celebrity; she is an attractive woman.

I think that makes a lot of people not take her seriously before they even hear what she has to say. At the same time, I also think it makes some conservatives just blindly love her to death. Then, I think there are some women who just don't like her because she is a woman (I know that may sound crazy to some, but some girls seem to have this thing where they just hate other girls, any ladies of the forum are welcomed to explain this if they have any insight :laugh:)

To answer your second question, I think if took away everything except the issues we would barely have anybody voting. The truth is, from my personal experience, 95% of the people in the streets don't know diddly squat about the issues, even around election time. That's not to say people don't care, they just don't care MORE than what is going on in their daily lives.

Good questions though Bonnie, those really made me think. :wink:

You've got very good insight, JB, and I agree with your take on things. As a woman, it's very disheartening.

As for what happened to Sarah Palin, I think it was about what you mentioned above--people (men & a lot of women) aren't ready (and may never be it appears) to have a woman run our country. It's funny (not haha) that people had to walk on eggshells being careful of what they said about Barack Obama during the campaign (or else be called racist), but it was perfectly acceptable to denigrate and mock Sarah Palin. People were to tread carefully when they talked of Michelle Obama and the Obama children were to be left alone. But, for some reason, that didn't apply to Sarah Palin and her family. Not only did race play a big part in the election, but so did good ol' fashioned sexism. It's bad enough when men pull that **** on women, but when I see women doing that to women, it makes my blood boil.

I still can't watch Tina Fey without wanting to spin her around by the hair until her tongue is ***** slapp'n her......and Katie Couric. :ninja:

As to why women hate other women, it could be a number of things, but jealousy is usually at the root of things......and men. :laugh:

J.B.
03-30-2010, 02:02 AM
You've got very good insight, JB, and I agree with your take on things. As a woman, it's very disheartening.

As for what happened to Sarah Palin, I think it was about what you mentioned above--people (men & a lot of women) aren't ready (and may never be it appears) to have a woman run our country. It's funny (not haha) that people had to walk on eggshells being careful of what they said about Barack Obama during the campaign (or else be called racist), but it was perfectly acceptable to denigrate and mock Sarah Palin. People were to tread carefully when they talked of Michelle Obama and the Obama children were to be left alone. But, for some reason, that didn't apply to Sarah Palin and her family. Not only did race play a big part in the election, but so did good ol' fashioned sexism. It's bad enough when men pull that **** on women, but when I see women doing that to women, it makes my blood boil.

I still can't watch Tina Fey without wanting to spin her around by the hair until her tongue is ***** slapp'n her......and Katie Couric. :ninja:

Some of the things people feel it is appropriate to say truly boggles my mind at times. Especially those with a large public forum, like David Letterman for instance. Considering the kinda guy the public knows him to be, that''s one person I wouldn't mind catching an assault beef for socking a few times in the jaw. When he made those jokes about Palin's daughter, it was tasteless, but that wasn't even the worst part. It was how Letterman issued a half-ass apology and then continued to mock it. Real classy....:rolleyes:

A side story about that situation is that I actually got into an on air/text message argument with a very popular Chicago sports radio broadcaster over the whole thing. I actually posted a thread about it when it happened in June of last year, and you can check it out here.....http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1951&highlight=terry+boers


As to why women hate other women, it could be a number of things, but jealousy is usually at the root of things......and men. :laugh:


Yeah.... I think I figured that one out a while ago. I just figured it would be best if a woman explained it....:laugh:

Neezar
03-30-2010, 11:55 AM
You've got very good insight, JB, and I agree with your take on things. As a woman, it's very disheartening.

As for what happened to Sarah Palin, I think it was about what you mentioned above--people (men & a lot of women) aren't ready (and may never be it appears) to have a woman run our country. It's funny (not haha) that people had to walk on eggshells being careful of what they said about Barack Obama during the campaign (or else be called racist), but it was perfectly acceptable to denigrate and mock Sarah Palin. People were to tread carefully when they talked of Michelle Obama and the Obama children were to be left alone. But, for some reason, that didn't apply to Sarah Palin and her family. Not only did race play a big part in the election, but so did good ol' fashioned sexism. It's bad enough when men pull that **** on women, but when I see women doing that to women, it makes my blood boil.

I still can't watch Tina Fey without wanting to spin her around by the hair until her tongue is ***** slapp'n her......and Katie Couric. :ninja:

As to why women hate other women, it could be a number of things, but jealousy is usually at the root of things......and men. :laugh:

:scared0015:

Note to self: Never piss Bonnie off.....especially while wearing a pony tail. :unsure:

Bonnie
03-30-2010, 03:32 PM
:scared0015:

Note to self: Never piss Bonnie off.....especially while wearing a pony tail. :unsure:

That wasn't me, it was Sybil. :scared0011:

This is why I had to limit how much political stuff I was watching on tv during the elections. And I'm not allowed to watch SNL anymore. :laugh: