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TheConcretekid
02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
http://i.imgur.com/R4BMk.jpg

County Mike
02-12-2010, 02:46 PM
I guess those people should get a job and pay for their healthcare.

Chris F
02-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Everyone has prioriteis with their money. People choose not to have healthcare it is not kept from them. It i snot hard to get a policy from an underwriter that is not much more expenisive then a work plan. Many even have pay plans to cover only what you tthink you will need. SO there is no real excuse. The lack of healthcare is as big of a myth as global warming. I live below the poverty line and I still have insurance because I know I need it and sacrafice somewhere lese to pay for it.

TheConcretekid
02-12-2010, 04:32 PM
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=trumal.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrumal.files.wordpress.com%2F2009 %2F06%2Fwwjd.jpg

Neezar
02-12-2010, 05:44 PM
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=trumal.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrumal.files.wordpress.com%2F2009 %2F06%2Fwwjd.jpg

He would get a paying gig. :laugh:

NateR
02-12-2010, 05:46 PM
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=trumal.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrumal.files.wordpress.com%2F2009 %2F06%2Fwwjd.jpg

He would tell people to depend on GOD, not the government, to take care of them.

NateR
02-12-2010, 05:47 PM
Everyone has prioriteis with their money. People choose not to have healthcare it is not kept from them. It i snot hard to get a policy from an underwriter that is not much more expenisive then a work plan. Many even have pay plans to cover only what you tthink you will need. SO there is no real excuse. The lack of healthcare is as big of a myth as global warming. I live below the poverty line and I still have insurance because I know I need it and sacrafice somewhere lese to pay for it.

Exactly, I could probably afford it, but I don't want it so I don't buy it.

NateR
02-12-2010, 05:58 PM
http://i.imgur.com/R4BMk.jpg

This is a total lie, but what do you expect from Liberals? There is no lack of healthcare in America. That's just more brainwashed Liberal propaganda.

Yes, lack of access, because not everyone can afford it, but forcing everyone to buy insurance policies with high co-pays would make access to healthcare even worse. Suddenly the money that people might have been able to save up for themselves, goes into an insurance company who requires even more money if the policy holder actually gets sick. Or the insurance company could just come up with any reason whatsoever to drop coverage on the person.

For instance, if I can only afford a cheap health insurance plan and I need to go in for heart surgery (I have a history of heart disease on both sides of my family, so this is more than a hypothetical here), the insurance company will still require me to pay $2500 or more for the co-pay before they do ANYTHING. So, now I've been spending $100 a month for an insurance policy that is completely useless to me when I need it.

The problem here is the insurance companies, not the healthcare system itself. And Obama's healthcare plan will just make everything worse. It's more of a health insurance company bailout than a true healthcare plan for the US.

Fortunately, the current bill looks to be dead in the water, even Obama and Nancy Pelosi are forced to admit it. So my only question is, where do I sign up to go dance on the grave? :happydancing:

CAVEMAN
02-12-2010, 08:46 PM
Yeah and notice who performed the studies for your poster. Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance. 2 places associated with the most liberal thinking schools in the country!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Rev
02-12-2010, 08:52 PM
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=trumal.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrumal.files.wordpress.com%2F2009 %2F06%2Fwwjd.jpg

He would get a job that's not called "welfare"

Shouldnt it be a rule that if Americans are discussing American healthcare, only Americans can input. jk, dont cry.

Mark
02-13-2010, 01:26 AM
I guess those people should get a job and pay for their healthcare.

This is what I believe.

flo
02-13-2010, 02:08 AM
He would tell people to depend on GOD, not the government, to take care of them.

LOL!! :applause:

flo
02-13-2010, 02:12 AM
He would get a paying gig. :laugh:

:laugh: :applause:

For every person that dies in a terrorist attack globally, 58 people in the US die due to lack of health care.

Now there's a meaningful analogy.


Not.

Of course, I'm one of those bible thumpin', Nascar lovin', gun huggin' stupid conservatives, so what do I know?

Neezar
02-13-2010, 02:39 AM
For every person that dies in a terrorist attack globally, 58 people in the US die due to lack of health care.


I would love to see this study of people in the US that die due to lack of health care. There are free clinics in EVERY county in America. There is a hospital in EVERY county seat or the adjoining county that has to accept people, insurance or not. I wonder what these people are supposedly dying from.

For instance, we have people who come in regularly with diabetes that are in crisis because they don't take care of themselves. When they die due to uncontrolled diabetes, are they counted as died due to lack of health care?

Also, we have people EVERYDAY that come to the ER and want a prescription for their high blood pressure medicine. They haven't taken it in three months because they have been out, no money, etc, etc. I always take the time to tell these people of our free clinic that will follow their care, monitor their blood pressure long term, AND they give them their meds for FREE. You would be shocked at how many times the answer I receive is, "Yeah, I know but it takes 3 weeks to get an appointment and you have to sit in there half a day."

:huh: WTFEVER :angry:

mscomc
02-13-2010, 03:47 AM
I would love to see this study of people in the US that die due to lack of health care. There are free clinics in EVERY county in America. There is a hospital in EVERY county seat or the adjoining county that has to accept people, insurance or not. I wonder what these people are supposedly dying from.

For instance, we have people who come in regularly with diabetes that are in crisis because they don't take care of themselves. When they die due to uncontrolled diabetes, are they counted as died due to lack of health care?

Also, we have people EVERYDAY that come to the ER and want a prescription for their high blood pressure medicine. They haven't taken it in three months because they have been out, no money, etc, etc. I always take the time to tell these people of our free clinic that will follow their care, monitor their blood pressure long term, AND they give them their meds for FREE. You would be shocked at how many times the answer I receive is, "Yeah, I know but it takes 3 weeks to get an appointment and you have to sit in there half a day."

:huh: WTFEVER :angry:

something I have been meaning to ask you, but i kept fogetting. What is your expereince with the average person that comes into your free clinics??? I ask because, a little while back, I was visiting family of mine in New York City, and their son is an ER resident, and he was doing some volunteer/rotation work at a free clinic. When he took us to see where this clinc was, it was literally full of: drug addicts, prostitutes, probable pimps, and other bad lookin guys. And he was telling me that all he gets asked to do are: HIV, hepatitis, pregnancy and other STI/drug realted tests. Granted, this is an inner city clinic, and its only one of them....I just wanted to know what things were like in your town? If they are anything like that, i can imaigne why you average guy wouldnt wanna come near a place like that.

Neezar
02-13-2010, 03:54 AM
something I have been meaning to ask you, but i kept fogetting. What is your expereince with the average person that comes into your free clinics??? I ask because, a little while back, I was visiting family of mine in New York City, and their son is an ER resident, and he was doing some volunteer/rotation work at a free clinic. When he took us to see where this clinc was, it was literally full of: drug addicts, prostitutes, probable pimps, and other bad lookin guys. And he was telling me that all he gets asked to do are: HIV, hepatitis, pregnancy and other STI/drug realted tests. Granted, this is an inner city clinic, and its only one of them....I just wanted to know what things were like in your town? If they are anything like that, i can imaigne why you average guy wouldnt wanna come near a place like that.

You can get those done there but I have done work there also and for the most part it is people with High blood pressure, Diabetes, etc.We have an free HIV clinic that is separate. They would be referred there. The health dept does free screening for STD's and pregnancy tests. So those are kinda steered to a different place. This place is more geared towards people who need monitored free health care and help with their medications.

Buzzard
02-13-2010, 06:25 AM
This is what I believe.

Do you think retired veterans should get their health care as it is now set up with the VA or should they abolish it and make them work to get their health care?

NateR
02-13-2010, 06:51 AM
Do you think retired veterans should get their health care as it is now set up with the VA or should they abolish it and make them work to get their health care?

That's a different situation. The free healthcare that our retired veterans receive is something that they earned after devoting 15-20+ years of their lives to serving our country.

Neezar
02-13-2010, 01:10 PM
Do you think retired veterans should get their health care as it is now set up with the VA or should they abolish it and make them work to get their health care?


Sometimes I believe they might as well. We have a VA clinic here now but before Vets had to travel to stinky Birmingham to see a doctor. And you might as well plan to spend a night because if you weren't one of the first ones to sign in for the day then you may not be seen. Even if you had the rare appt with a specialist, you still may not be seen. They would just move you to the next day. Atrocious!

surveyorshawn
02-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Sometimes I believe they might as well. We have a VA clinic here now but before Vets had to travel to stinky Birmingham to see a doctor. And you might as well plan to spend a night because if you weren't one of the first ones to sign in for the day then you may not be seen. Even if you had the rare appt with a specialist, you still may not be seen. They would just move you to the next day. Atrocious!
Yeah, I have to drive nearly 2 hours to the VA, and it is an all day ordeal, so unless I have a major health problem or a routine visit that is scheduled weeks in advance, I just go to a local doctor and pay for it. I have had to go for major problems before, though, and was thankful to have access to the VA for sure!

NateR
02-13-2010, 04:35 PM
Sometimes I believe they might as well. We have a VA clinic here now but before Vets had to travel to stinky Birmingham to see a doctor. And you might as well plan to spend a night because if you weren't one of the first ones to sign in for the day then you may not be seen. Even if you had the rare appt with a specialist, you still may not be seen. They would just move you to the next day. Atrocious!

Yeah, the current system of veteran's healthcare is horrible, which gives me zero faith that the federal government would be able to competently manage healthcare for the entire nation. My brother tried getting a blood test through the VA once and it took 6 months to get an appointment, then when he showed up for the appointment, they cancelled it and rescheduled it for 90 days later.

The sad thing is that the veterans have actually earned their free healthcare and they are getting the royal shaft by our government. :sad:

NateR
02-13-2010, 04:38 PM
Shouldnt it be a rule that if Americans are discussing American healthcare, only Americans can input. jk, dont cry.

:laugh: I just realized that ConcreteKid wasn't an American. That definitely turns this into an :sign0090: moment. :wink:

bradwright
02-13-2010, 04:40 PM
Yeah, the current system of veteran's healthcare is horrible, which gives me zero faith that the federal government would be able to competently manage healthcare for the entire nation. My brother tried getting a blood test through the VA once and it took 6 months to get an appointment, then when he showed up for the appointment, they cancelled it and rescheduled it for 90 days later.

The sad thing is that the veterans have actually earned their free healthcare and they are getting the royal shaft by our government. :sad:

if that really is the kind of health care your government is proposing for everyone then i agree,you are better off without it.

NateR
02-13-2010, 04:51 PM
if that really is the kind of health care your government is proposing for everyone then i agree,you are better off without it.

Yeah, and I doubt that this current administration would do anything to fix the broken VA healthcare system. So we'd most likely end up with civilians, who have never served this country a day in their life, receiving better healthcare from the government than our own veterans. That is simply unacceptable.

surveyorshawn
02-13-2010, 07:22 PM
I had a CT scan done at the VA in October for frequent recurring migraines. My appointment to get the results and discuss treatment options with the VA doctor is in mid-March. I finally gave up and went to a doctor in my town, who ordered the results and treated me. Of course I paid for it since I don't have insurance, but at least I am receiving treatment now instead of waiting for months to even know what could be causing them and get any relief.

Buzzard
02-13-2010, 11:02 PM
That's a different situation. The free healthcare that our retired veterans receive is something that they earned after devoting 15-20+ years of their lives to serving our country.

I know folks who served only 3-4 years and get it, so you are fluffing your required service years. I've worked for a company for over 24 years, and may lose my job due to work injuries and if I do lose it, I also lose my insurance. Heck, you're eligible for it, why don't you use it? BTW, I am for providing our vets with health care.

So it seems that the VA type of socialized medicine is ok for you, but you don't want the government to help other Americans. Funny how it's ok for our government to spend billions of dollars helping other countries and providing care for non-Americans when some of our own can't afford it.

Yeah, and I doubt that this current administration would do anything to fix the broken VA healthcare system. So we'd most likely end up with civilians, who have never served this country a day in their life, receiving better healthcare from the government than our own veterans. That is simply unacceptable.

What did our past administration do to fix the broken VA health care system? You don't necessarily have to serve in the Armed Forces to serve your country. Many civilian jobs serve and provide for our country too, from truck drivers and civil servants etc.

NateR
02-13-2010, 11:28 PM
I know folks who served only 3-4 years and get it, so you are fluffing your required service years. I've worked for a company for over 24 years, and may lose my job due to work injuries and if I do lose it, I also lose my insurance. Heck, you're eligible for it, why don't you use it? BTW, I am for providing our vets with health care.

Well, your post specifically referenced "retired veterans" so I was addressing that. If you didn't retire from the military, then you get more limited access to VA care. The only way anyone would get full medical benefits from the VA without retiring would be to leave the military with some sort of documented disability. Even that is broken down into a percentage and your available benefits are scaled to that.

So it seems that the VA type of socialized medicine is ok for you, but you don't want the government to help other Americans.

Our government sends our troops into wars and hazardous duty areas, thus the government should provide full health coverage for those troops. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Funny how it's ok for our government to spend billions of dollars helping other countries and providing care for non-Americans when some of our own can't afford it.

I would agree with you there, but are you saying that we shouldn't be helping countries like Haiti because not all Americans can afford health care?

What did our past administration do to fix the broken VA health care system?

Bush did a few things to help, but overall not enough to fix all of the flaws in our system. Bill Clinton was probably the worst when it came to stripping our vets of their benefits. However, no Presidential administration has really done enough to make sure that our vets are treated properly.

You don't necessarily have to serve in the Armed Forces to serve your country. Many civilian jobs serve and provide for our country too, from truck drivers and civil servants etc.

Again, civilian workers, like Boomer, who are sent into combat zones and hazardous duty areas should be fully compensated.

But I know that you are not comparing the services of a truck driver cruising down I-55 with the services of an infantryman on the battlefields of Iraq or Afghanistan. Because that would be idiotic.

AMJ
02-14-2010, 03:55 AM
This whole universal healthcare topic doesn't really make sense for the United States. As a person who holds dual citizenship in the United States and in Canada, I am pretty familiar with each system. At the end of the day, Canada is going towards a two-tiered system, but the overall healthcare is pretty good. You have to recognize that their are only 30 million in the entire country and it still is a huge burden on the government. For those who don't have any other option, they may have to wait a little longer, but at the end of the day, they get treatment. Those who can afford better plans have the ability to pay to get "better" care. All this means is the wait times aren't as long. I have regular coverage in Canada and the longest I had to wait to see my Dr. was 30 minutes. I'll take that to save a couple hundred bucks a month for when I have to see my doc.


In America, they need to look at 1) The access to Health Care and 2) The Cost of Health Care. You don't need to create universal coverage to do this. With nearly 350 Million, it's just not feasible to cover anyone and everyone, even if it the plan has positive intentions. I do think a bill needs to be passed to do some regulatory overhaul on health insurance companies. If the Government can impose restrictions on financial institutions for our safety then it should the same for companies that are supposedly looking after our health.

I do know for sure that Americans are paying top dollar for prescription drugs that are half the price in Canada, i'm talking about the lipitor's etc etc. Something needs to be done, but universal coverage is not the solution.

NateR
02-14-2010, 04:16 AM
This whole universal healthcare topic doesn't really make sense for the United States. As a person who holds dual citizenship in the United States and in Canada, I am pretty familiar with each system. At the end of the day, Canada is going towards a two-tiered system, but the overall healthcare is pretty good. You have to recognize that their are only 30 million in the entire country and it still is a huge burden on the government. For those who don't have any other option, they may have to wait a little longer, but at the end of the day, they get treatment. Those who can afford better plans have the ability to pay to get "better" care. All this means is the wait times aren't as long. I have regular coverage in Canada and the longest I had to wait to see my Dr. was 30 minutes. I'll take that to save a couple hundred bucks a month for when I have to see my doc.


In America, they need to look at 1) The access to Health Care and 2) The Cost of Health Care. You don't need to create universal coverage to do this. With nearly 350 Million, it's just not feasible to cover anyone and everyone, even if it the plan has positive intentions. I do think a bill needs to be passed to do some regulatory overhaul on health insurance companies. If the Government can impose restrictions on financial institutions for our safety then it should the same for companies that are supposedly looking after our health.

I do know for sure that Americans are paying top dollar for prescription drugs that are half the price in Canada, i'm talking about the lipitor's etc etc. Something needs to be done, but universal coverage is not the solution.

I agree, one of the biggest problems in America is hospitals price gouging their patients. If I can get a entire bottle of aspirin at Walmart for $2, then there is no way that any hospital should be charging $8 per aspirin tablet.

Mandatory insurance is not going to solve that, in fact it will likely make the problem much worse.

BTW, it's nice to talk to a Canadian who doesn't have the "we're so much better than you because we have free healthcare" attitude. :)

Rev
02-14-2010, 04:49 AM
well, he aint full blooded. (Texas accent followed by spit of chew)
:laugh:

Tyburn
02-14-2010, 11:19 PM
http://i.imgur.com/R4BMk.jpg

:mellow: thats really insulting...Amy told me there were free hospitals or clinics around or something...and she said that they wouldnt turn away someone who was actually dying...I find this incredibly...distasteful...even if you were a supporter of some kinda NHS for the U.S. that poster...there is something really wrong with that. :blink:

ohh...and good point about the NHS vs population numbers. The only way they could effectively do an NHS would be on a state by state level I reckon

Play The Man
02-15-2010, 05:36 AM
Yes, lack of access, because not everyone can afford it, but forcing everyone to buy insurance policies with high co-pays would make access to healthcare even worse. Suddenly the money that people might have been able to save up for themselves, goes into an insurance company who requires even more money if the policy holder actually gets sick. Or the insurance company could just come up with any reason whatsoever to drop coverage on the person.

For instance, if I can only afford a cheap health insurance plan and I need to go in for heart surgery (I have a history of heart disease on both sides of my family, so this is more than a hypothetical here), the insurance company will still require me to pay $2500 or more for the co-pay before they do ANYTHING. So, now I've been spending $100 a month for an insurance policy that is completely useless to me when I need it.


I think that the high deductible plans can be a good choice in many situations. For example, if you have to go in for a CABG and don't have insurance, the bill is going to be in the tens of thousands of dollars. If you have a complication, such as a surgical site infection, the cost of the hospitalization will easily top one hundred thousand dollars. If you have a nightmare complication, like a post-op stroke, the bill could approach one million dollars. Paying a $2,500 deductible is painful, but for almost everybody, it could be a manageable expense (you may have to work out a payment plan with the hospital). However, most people couldn't pay a $100,000 or $1,000,000 medical bill, even if they have a healthy "rainy day" fund. High-deductible insurance helps prevent a catastrophic expense that would bankrupt most people.

Play The Man
02-15-2010, 05:42 AM
Do you think retired veterans should get their health care as it is now set up with the VA or should they abolish it and make them work to get their health care?

I think that veterans should have their health care covered.

I have never heard it discussed, but what if they scrapped the VA system and sold off the assets (hospitals, clinics, medical equipment) and instead paid for the veterans to have "Cadillac" health plans with private insurers and use private or university hospitals? I have never seen a cost analysis of such a proposal but I would think that it would compare favorably with the current system, which has to support a huge bureaucracy.

Play The Man
02-15-2010, 05:53 AM
In surveys I have read, about 85% of people are satisfied with their healthcare. I don't think the whole system needs to be changed; however, there are certain issues in health care that need to be reformed - pre-existing conditions, insurance portability, catastrophic expenses, outrageously high COBRA fees, tort reform, coverage for poor children, coverage for severely disabled people, insurance companies declining care, etc. I wish that instead of a huge, expensive overhaul of the system, Congress would keep the current system intact and make targeted reforms addressing the issues I mentioned above.

Play The Man
02-15-2010, 06:16 AM
Everyone has prioriteis with their money. People choose not to have healthcare it is not kept from them. It i snot hard to get a policy from an underwriter that is not much more expenisive then a work plan. Many even have pay plans to cover only what you tthink you will need. SO there is no real excuse. The lack of healthcare is as big of a myth as global warming. I live below the poverty line and I still have insurance because I know I need it and sacrafice somewhere lese to pay for it.

I think you make a good point. I would bet that if you did an audit of some of the people claiming that they can't afford health insurance, you would find expenses such as: a pack-per-day smoking habit ($3,000 + per year), cable television ($50-$100 + per month), a car less than 4 years old (Tens of thousands of dollars), an iPhone ($2,000 if you include 2 years of service), a laptop computer ($1,000), . . . (you get the point)

I am all for paying for healthcare for poor children, disabled people, veterans and people who are truly living in poverty; however, I don't want to pay for people who don't budget their money and instead spend it on luxuries or frivolous things. I am not against people having the expenses that I mentioned above; however, if you can afford those things, you can afford health insurance.

CAVEMAN
02-15-2010, 03:05 PM
In surveys I have read, about 85% of people are satisfied with their healthcare. I don't think the whole system needs to be changed; however, there are certain issues in health care that need to be reformed - pre-existing conditions, insurance portability, catastrophic expenses, outrageously high COBRA fees, tort reform, coverage for poor children, coverage for severely disabled people, insurance companies declining care, etc. I wish that instead of a huge, expensive overhaul of the system, Congress would keep the current system intact and make targeted reforms addressing the issues I mentioned above.

Totally agree. A person can go bankrupt trying to pay COBRA fees!! My mom paid some outragous fees for awhile after my Dad passed away.