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Vizion
02-11-2010, 03:09 PM
I was researching something when I came across this. :mad0233: Being the youngest of eight children I guess according this crazy witch my mom should have slain me in the crib.

Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger wrote the following in a book titled, “Woman and the new race“:

The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.

...the MOST merciful thing :sign0094: - wow, what sheer arrogance.

Note that she is not talking about abortion here but rather talking about BORN children. I am sure that some people reading this post are thinking that this statement is a fabrication or a distortion. If that is you, I would direct you to this scan of the page from her book where the statement is found:

Check out the link to find the page -> http://liveaction.org/blog/planned-parenthood-founder-large-families-should-kill-infants/

I wonder how pro-choicers would respond to this statement.

CAVEMAN
02-11-2010, 03:12 PM
I just posted another thread about Planned Parenthood advocating sex education for 10 year olds! Yeah if the public did their homework on these folks, they would see that there definitely is an agenda!

Miss Foxy
02-11-2010, 03:34 PM
Soooo I mean sooo sickening!! This woman is pure evil..I cannot stomach the thought of abortions.. I don't understand why?! I looked at that witches picture and seen pure evil and I vow to do more to get out there and advocate for these unborn children..I really can't understand her thoughts on making a large family smaller? ugg!!

DonnaMaria
02-11-2010, 06:37 PM
Wow, they would just LOVE her line of thinking in China!

Oh wait..........too late........they are already doing that. :fiery:

It's amazing how one country can be accused of civil rights violations for suggesting/acting upon such a thing..........yet another be lauded as having a "solution" to poverty and overpopulation. Unbelieveable. Horrible and unbelieveable.

This is why abortion cannot be allowed anywhere, for any reason. Because it's murder. Any way that you look at it. And if you allow abortion of an unborn baby because of "choice" , it's just a hop, skip and a jump away from murdering someone because of "choice" or for "their own good" at ANY age!

"I'm sorry sir/madam/little girl/little boy/ veteran/elderly patient/ car accident victim/cancer patient/ ...............

we just don't think it would be right to let you keep living..........
and it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive to take care of you........

so.............it's better off for everyone if we kill you."

Come on...........that's not far fetched at all. It's where we are headed.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Wow, they would just LOVE her line of thinking in China!

Oh wait..........too late........they are already doing that. :fiery:

It's amazing how one country can be accused of civil rights violations for suggesting/acting upon such a thing..........yet another be lauded as having a "solution" to poverty and overpopulation. Unbelieveable. Horrible and unbelieveable.

This is why abortion cannot be allowed anywhere, for any reason. Because it's murder. Any way that you look at it. And if you allow abortion of an unborn baby because of "choice" , it's just a hop, skip and a jump away from murdering someone because of "choice" or for "their own good" at ANY age!

"I'm sorry sir/madam/little girl/little boy/ veteran/elderly patient/ car accident victim/cancer patient/ ...............

we just don't think it would be right to let you keep living..........
and it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive to take care of you........

so.............it's better off for everyone if we kill you."

Come on...........that's not far fetched at all. It's where we are headed.

:huh:.....i think your post just might be a little far fetched....sorry.

DonnaMaria
02-11-2010, 07:08 PM
And I apologize for turning this into another anti-abortion debate. I don't mean to. I think we can ALL agree that what Ms. Sanger is suggesting is murder. There is no other way to look at it.

And I just wanted to also say this.........with regards to the pro-choice/pro-life movement.

We have had a lot of debates going on with hypothetical scenarios……..and we have had some brave people come forward and give their accounts of how they decided on one thing or another.

Here is my story. I was 18 and my best friend was careless and discovered that she was pregnant. She decided immediately to have an abortion. Told me there wasn’t anything that I could do to talk her out of it, so I didn’t. At the time I was pro-life for myself but pro-choice for other people. I thought it was her decision and I didn’t have any right to try to talk her out of it.

Well she had the abortion………and then a breakdown when she realized that she murdered her own child. She was in the hospital room, screaming and inconsolable. Tearing at her flesh. When she saw me she wailed “How could you let me do this? Why didn’t you try to stop me! I was counting on you to stop me! Why didn’t you?!”

:cry:

Why didn’t I? Her words haunt me to this day. I didn’t stop her because I thought that I didn’t have the right to tell her that I thought it was murder to abort her child. I didn’t want to ruin our friendship by telling her that I was against her having the abortion.

I left the hospital and we never spoke again. I found out from friends that she recovered…..as much as she could. And she moved away. And it’s been 22 years since that day in the hospital.

And that baby would be 22 years old now. Would he have been the one to find a cure for cancer? Would she be the one to help us achieve a more peaceful world? We will never know. And I have to accept some responsibility for that. For not speaking up.

Just had to explain where I am coming from…………….

thanks

NateR
02-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Margaret Sanger also said, "We don't want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the negro population" (December 13, 1339)

Organizations like Planned Parenthood are pure evil an just the fact that Barack Obama associates himself with their goals eliminates any possibility that he is a Christian.

NateR
02-11-2010, 07:15 PM
Wow, they would just LOVE her line of thinking in China!

Oh wait..........too late........they are already doing that. :fiery:

It's amazing how one country can be accused of civil rights violations for suggesting/acting upon such a thing..........yet another be lauded as having a "solution" to poverty and overpopulation. Unbelieveable. Horrible and unbelieveable.

This is why abortion cannot be allowed anywhere, for any reason. Because it's murder. Any way that you look at it. And if you allow abortion of an unborn baby because of "choice" , it's just a hop, skip and a jump away from murdering someone because of "choice" or for "their own good" at ANY age!

"I'm sorry sir/madam/little girl/little boy/ veteran/elderly patient/ car accident victim/cancer patient/ ...............

we just don't think it would be right to let you keep living..........
and it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive to take care of you........

so.............it's better off for everyone if we kill you."

Come on...........that's not far fetched at all. It's where we are headed.

That was most definitely where we were headed; but fortunately Barack Obama's Healthcare plan looks to be dead for now, so we've bought a little bit of time to wake people up.

DonnaMaria
02-11-2010, 07:16 PM
:huh:.....i think your post just might be a little far fetched....sorry.


I wish it was far fetched. But in reality, it's not.

How about this............

http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/obama-administration-orders-euthanasia-pamphlet-for-disabled-vets/

and would you disagree that insurance companies decide to pay or not pay for procedures based on "value" of life after the procedure? They do it all the time.

My uncle was turned down for a heart transplant 10 years ago.......and every year since........because he was considered too old for it. Yet he still lives.........and still needs it.

NateR
02-11-2010, 07:18 PM
And I apologize for turning this into another anti-abortion debate. I don't mean to. I think we can ALL agree that what Ms. Sanger is suggesting is murder. There is no other way to look at it.

And I just wanted to also say this.........with regards to the pro-choice/pro-life movement.

We have had a lot of debates going on with hypothetical scenarios……..and we have had some brave people come forward and give their accounts of how they decided on one thing or another.

Here is my story. I was 18 and my best friend was careless and discovered that she was pregnant. She decided immediately to have an abortion. Told me there wasn’t anything that I could do to talk her out of it, so I didn’t. At the time I was pro-life for myself but pro-choice for other people. I thought it was her decision and I didn’t have any right to try to talk her out of it.

Well she had the abortion………and then a breakdown when she realized that she murdered her own child. She was in the hospital room, screaming and inconsolable. Tearing at her flesh. When she saw me she wailed “How could you let me do this? Why didn’t you try to stop me! I was counting on you to stop me! Why didn’t you?!”

:cry:

Why didn’t I? Her words haunt me to this day. I didn’t stop her because I thought that I didn’t have the right to tell her that I thought it was murder to abort her child. I didn’t want to ruin our friendship by telling her that I was against her having the abortion.

I left the hospital and we never spoke again. I found out from friends that she recovered…..as much as she could. And she moved away. And it’s been 22 years since that day in the hospital.

And that baby would be 22 years old now. Would he have been the one to find a cure for cancer? Would she be the one to help us achieve a more peaceful world? We will never know. And I have to accept some responsibility for that. For not speaking up.

Just had to explain where I am coming from…………….

thanks

That's pretty rough. I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience, but it does illustrate that our current philosophy of "People should be allowed to do what is right in their own eyes," is one of the greatest and most destructive lies in our modern culture.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 07:46 PM
That's pretty rough. I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience, but it does illustrate that our current philosophy of "llowePeople should be ad to do what is right in their own eyes," is one of the greatest and most destructive lies in our modern culture.

so you want to live under a dictatorship ?
the problem with taking choice away from people is it will lead to more choices being taken away,and no Nate i do not think abortion is alright,that you already know....i just have a problem with throwing a blanket over it and saying all abortions are the same.

the case with Donna and her friend was a sad one alright but Donna did nothing wrong,it was never her job as a friend to talk her out of the abortion.
society failed that girl,not Donna...there should be manditory counseling in situations like that before an abortion could ever be done....if that were the case i think a lot of people would change their minds and not have an abortion at all.

NateR
02-11-2010, 07:50 PM
so you want to live under a dictatorship ?
the problem with taking choice away from people is it will lead to more choices being taken away,and no Nate i do not think abortion is alright,that you already know....i just have a problem with throwing a blanket over it and saying all abortions are the same.

the case with Donna and her friend was a sad one alright but Donna did nothing wrong,it was never her job as a friend to talk her out of the abortion.
society failed that girl,not Donna...there should be manditory counseling in situations like that before an abortion could ever be done....if that were the case i think a lot of people would change their minds and not have an abortion at all.

No, a dictatorship is when a man forces his own laws onto a population. I'm talking about the non-negotiable standard of morality laid out in the Bible. That's GOD's Law not man's, and those laws aren't burdensome, they are actually the only true source of freedom.

Miss Foxy
02-11-2010, 07:51 PM
I wish it was far fetched. But in reality, it's not.

How about this............

http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/obama-administration-orders-euthanasia-pamphlet-for-disabled-vets/

and would you disagree that insurance companies decide to pay or not pay for procedures based on "value" of life after the procedure? They do it all the time.

My uncle was turned down for a heart transplant 10 years ago.......and every year since........because he was considered too old for it. Yet he still lives.........and still needs it.
Its' the employer/group that decides if they want abortion benefits or not. I am very much PRO-LIFE, however I work in the health insurance business and know this firsthand. For example we administer for Catholic Healthcare and abortion is excluded.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 07:58 PM
No, a dictatorship is when a man forces his own laws onto a population. I'm talking about the non-negotiable standard of morality laid out in the Bible. That's GOD's Law not man's, and those laws aren't burdensome, they are actually the only true source of freedom.

thats fine if everyone believes in God...but you and i both know not everyone does,forcing those people who dont believe in God to adhere to Gods laws would be a dictatorship.

NateR
02-11-2010, 08:11 PM
thats fine if everyone believes in God...but you and i both know not everyone does,forcing those people who dont believe in God to adhere to Gods laws would be a dictatorship.

Yeah, all those laws against murdering, stealing, lying, and committing adultery just make life so much more difficult for everyone.

Then there are those laws that command us to be charitable and to love our enemies. That's just so incredibly oppressive.

:rolleyes:

bradwright
02-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Yeah, all those laws against murdering, stealing, lying, and committing adultery just make life so much more difficult for everyone.

Then there are those laws that command us to be charitable and to love our enemies. That's just so incredibly oppressive.

:rolleyes:

do you really need all those laws you just stated before you would or wouldn't do those things ?

and that love our enemies is one some of us seem to struggle with from time to time.(Nate:wink:).

NateR
02-11-2010, 08:24 PM
do you really need all those laws you just stated before you would or wouldn't do those things ?

and that love our enemies is one some of us seem to struggle with from time to time.(Nate:wink:).

Um, yes, we need those laws because people are inherently evil and must be taught to do good things. There is no "goodness" inside any of us, so lying, cheating, stealing and killing come all too naturally to every human being on earth.

I see you are one of those people who can't distinguish between disagreeing with someone's opinion and hating them. If so, then I'm disappointed.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Um, yes, we need those laws because people are inherently evil and must be taught to do good things. There is no "goodness" inside any of us, so lying, cheating, stealing and killing come all too naturally to every human being on earth.

I see you are one of those people who can't distinguish between disagreeing with someone's opinion and hating them. If so, then I'm disappointed.
your wrong Nate,there is a lot of goodness inside people...its just there is a lot of evil inside people as well.
ive seen some of the things you call people when you as you put it disagree with them....so yes Nate i can distinguish between the two.

NateR
02-11-2010, 08:38 PM
your wrong Nate,there is a lot of goodness inside people...its just there is a lot of evil inside people as well.

Well, the Bible would say that is a lie - Psalm 14:1-3:

1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 08:47 PM
Well, the Bible would say that is a lie - Psalm 14:1-3:

if you really believe that there is no good inside anyone then i think you might be hanging out with the wrong crowd.

i realize you take everything that is written in the bible to be held up to the world as the unquestionable truth....but i dont.

NateR
02-11-2010, 08:52 PM
if you really believe that there is no good inside anyone then i think you might be hanging out with the wrong crowd.

What? That's a stupid thing to say. :blink:

Okay, I guess I should go tell Mark, Matt, Boomer, Mac, and Brian that they are the wrong crowd and that I can't hang out with them anymore.

You're a fool.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 08:57 PM
What? That's a stupid thing to say. :blink:

Okay, I guess I should go tell Mark, Matt, Boomer, Mac, and Brian that they are the wrong crowd and that I can't hang out with them anymore.

You're a fool.

why do you resort to name calling when things dont go your way ?

you said there is no good in anyone and i was just trying to point out to you that there "IS" good in everyone....even the people you hang out with...but some how you missed my point.

NateR
02-11-2010, 08:59 PM
why do you resort to name calling when things dont go your way ?

you said there is no good in anyone and i was just trying to point out to you that there "IS" good in everyone....even the people you hang out with...but some how you missed my point.

I disagree and if you don't consider the Bible to be a reliable source of truth, then there is no common ground for us to continue this off topic discussion.

Vizion
02-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Brad:

Are you pro-choice?

bradwright
02-11-2010, 09:04 PM
I disagree and if you don't consider the Bible to be a reliable source of truth, then there is no common ground for us to continue this off topic discussion.

if everyone needed common ground to have a discussion then there wouldn't be any reason to ever have a discussion in the first place...but thats fine.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Brad:

Are you pro-choice?

in certain situations i am...but i have already stated that in a different thread.

Chuck
02-11-2010, 09:10 PM
..... the fact that Barack Obama associates himself with their goals eliminates any possibility that he is a Christian.

Uh oh!!! Here we go again!!! :tongue0011:

Rev
02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
I have been trying to stay out of the debates as of late, but I had to chime in and say that I think it would be safe to say that I am going to side with the bible on any and every issue including this one. So if anyone else is taking the side of the word, I am with them,(nate)

So +1 for nate and the Obama not being a Christian post.

Vizion
02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
in certain situations i am...but i have already stated that in a different thread.
Ok, sorry I missed that.

What do you think about Planned Parenthood? More about purely helping women, or, aside from profits (which they make by the billions annually), or more about the extermination of the undesirable?

NateR
02-11-2010, 09:31 PM
if everyone needed common ground to have a discussion then there wouldn't be any reason to ever have a discussion in the first place...but thats fine.

Okay, fine, I consider the Bible to be the ultimate source of absolute truth in the universe. Do you believe in an ultimate source of absolute truth? If so, what is it?

bradwright
02-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Ok, sorry I missed that.

What do you think about Planned Parenthood? More about purely helping women, or, aside from profits (which they make by the billions annually), or more about the extermination of the undesirable?

i honestly dont know how to answer your question because i know virtually nothing about planned parenthood.
and the extermination of the undesirable ? what are you inferring to ?

bradwright
02-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Okay, fine, I consider the Bible to be the ultimate source of absolute truth in the universe. Do you believe in an ultimate source of absolute truth? If so, what is it?

i'm not sure i could ever believe in absolute truth because i rarely ever see anything as an absolute...you might see that as a flaw in me and who knows you may be right if you did....thats just the way i see things.

Vizion
02-11-2010, 09:50 PM
i honestly dont know how to answer your question because i know virtually nothing about planned parenthood.
and the extermination of the undesirable ? what are you inferring to ?well, the undesirable would be the babies in the mother's womb.

NateR
02-11-2010, 09:52 PM
i'm not sure i could ever believe in absolute truth because i rarely ever see anything as an absolute...you might see that as a flaw in me and who knows you may be right if you did....thats just the way i see things.

So you would say that there is no absolute truth?

bradwright
02-11-2010, 09:54 PM
well, the undesirable would be the babies in the mother's womb.

i think if you want people to hear your message and view it as a positive one then the over the top stuff like that should be left out of it.

if thats what you were asking.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
So you would say that there is no absolute truth?

of course there is an absolute truth but to claim you know what it is takes an awful lot of faith in something you cant readily prove....and thats great for everyone that see's it that way...its just that i struggle with that concept.

NateR
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
i think if you want people to hear your message and view it as a positive one then the over the top stuff like that should be left out of it.

if thats what you were asking.

So, it's being offensive and making people uncomfortable that is hurting the Pro-Life cause? C'mon now, this is life and death we are talking about here! Back in WW2, do you think that it would have been worth offending a few Germans if we could have put a stop to the Holocaust a few years earlier?

It wasn't until people were faced with the grim reality of what they had done that Nazi Germany was able to feel the shame and see the horrible mistake they had made.

It's the same now with abortion. People would rather sweep it under the rug and pretend it's not happening rather than face the truth that thousands of babies are being slaughtered every day.

Vizion
02-11-2010, 10:07 PM
of course there is an absolute truth but to claim you know what it is takes an awful lot of faith in something you cant readily prove....and thats great for everyone that see's it that way...its just that i struggle with that concept. Brad, so you admit you believe in absolute truth. Do you believe in God - who then must have been the maker of absolute truth?

NateR
02-11-2010, 10:13 PM
of course there is an absolute truth but to claim you know what it is takes an awful lot of faith in something you cant readily prove....and thats great for everyone that see's it that way...its just that i struggle with that concept.

Well, you claim to believe in GOD and absolute truth, but if that was true, then you wouldn't be so unwilling to commit to and stand up for those beliefs. I think it's more accurate to say that you want to believe, but aren't sure.

Anyways, the statement "There are no absolutes" is a contradiction and a logical impossibility. Because it is either false, or it is true and it makes itself false. Because if it was true, then the very statements itself, "There are no absolutes," would be an absolute; thus it completely negates itself.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 10:30 PM
So, it's being offensive and making people uncomfortable that is hurting the Pro-Life cause? C'mon now, this is life and death we are talking about here! Back in WW2, do you think that it would have been worth offending a few Germans if we could have put a stop to the Holocaust a few years earlier?

It wasn't until people were faced with the grim reality of what they had done that Nazi Germany was able to feel the shame and see the horrible mistake they had made.

It's the same now with abortion. People would rather sweep it under the rug and pretend it's not happening rather than face the truth that thousands of babies are being slaughtered every day.

its not about sweeping anything under the rug....its about education....and honestly if you think beating people over the head is the best approach then i would say your thought process is flawed in this instance.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 10:34 PM
Well, you claim to believe in GOD and absolute truth, but if that was true, then you wouldn't be so unwilling to commit to and stand up for those beliefs. I think it's more accurate to say that you want to believe, but aren't sure.

Anyways, the statement "There are no absolutes" is a contradiction and a logical impossibility. Because it is either false, or it is true and it makes itself false. Because if it was true, then the very statements itself, "There are no absolutes," would be an absolute; thus it completely negates itself.

i never said there are no absolutes....i said i very rarely see anything as an absolute.
you assume that everything i say i believe to be true with out question...i dont or i wouldn't bother to discuss anything with anyone.

NateR
02-11-2010, 10:48 PM
i never said there are no absolutes....i said i very rarely see anything as an absolute.
you assume that everything i say i believe to be true with out question...i dont or i wouldn't bother to discuss anything with anyone.

I didn't say beating people over the head, just that we don't need to be hiding the horrific truths about abortion because we are afraid of offending people.

The issue of abortion is something that I believe is too important to even consider compromise on.

Back in the Abolitionist days, when people were fighting against slavery, do you think they spent all their time worrying about the feelings of slave owners? No, the most effective ones were the people who exposed the ugliness and inhumanity of the slave trade. That's what needs to be done on the issue of abortion.

bradwright
02-11-2010, 10:57 PM
I didn't say beating people over the head, just that we don't need to be hiding the horrific truths about abortion because we are afraid of offending people.

The issue of abortion is something that I believe is too important to even consider compromise on.

Back in the Abolitionist days, when people were fighting against slavery, do you think they spent all their time worrying about the feelings of slave owners? No, the most effective ones were the people who exposed the ugliness and inhumanity of the slave trade. That's what needs to be done on the issue of abortion.

i agree with you...i just dont agree with the method that some people want to use to get the point across.

DonnaMaria
02-12-2010, 12:54 AM
so you want to live under a dictatorship ?
the problem with taking choice away from people is it will lead to more choices being taken away,and no Nate i do not think abortion is alright,that you already know....i just have a problem with throwing a blanket over it and saying all abortions are the same.

the case with Donna and her friend was a sad one alright but Donna did nothing wrong,it was never her job as a friend to talk her out of the abortion.
society failed that girl,not Donna...there should be manditory counseling in situations like that before an abortion could ever be done....if that were the case i think a lot of people would change their minds and not have an abortion at all.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I most certainly DID do something wrong. I failed my friend and I failed that child. I was an accessory to murder. I knew she was going to do it. I didn’t talk her out of it. And because I did nothing, two lives were destroyed. After the murder my friend was a walking shell, nothing like she was before the abortion. Before that horrific day she was a happy, personable woman who was vibrant and energetic and charismatic. After the abortion she was despondent, depressed, sad. She moved away and never contacted anyone within our group again. Since that day 22 years ago she has had a really difficult life and, I feel, has never recovered from the abortion. And I could have tried to stop it. And I didn’t. I have blood on my hands.

I failed her. I failed the baby. And I don't ever, ever want to forget that. I shouldn't forget that.

NateR
02-12-2010, 01:00 AM
Well, I have to disagree with you there. I most certainly DID do something wrong. I failed my friend and I failed that child. I was an accessory to murder. I knew she was going to do it. I didn’t talk her out of it. And because I did nothing, two lives were destroyed. After the murder my friend was a walking shell, nothing like she was before the abortion. Before that horrific day she was a happy, personable woman who was vibrant and energetic and charismatic. After the abortion she was despondent, depressed, sad. She moved away and never contacted anyone within our group again. Since that day 22 years ago she has had a really difficult life and, I feel, has never recovered from the abortion. And I could have tried to stop it. And I didn’t. I have blood on my hands.

I failed her. I failed the baby. And I don't ever, ever want to forget that. I shouldn't forget that.

Yes, people forget that there is always more than one victim in every abortion. The women who have them must live with the emotional scars for the rest of their lives, because whether they admit it or not, they know EXACTLY what they have done once that child is dead.

NateR
02-12-2010, 01:01 AM
i agree with you...i just dont agree with the method that some people want to use to get the point across.

What methods would those be?

DonnaMaria
02-12-2010, 01:07 AM
Its' the employer/group that decides if they want abortion benefits or not. I am very much PRO-LIFE, however I work in the health insurance business and know this firsthand. For example we administer for Catholic Healthcare and abortion is excluded.

Well I agree, that's true, but that link was actually to an article about "Your Life-Your Choices.....

"Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices.""

Many claim that the document makes Vets believe that their lives might not be "worth living" at a certain point.

Sorry about the confusion......:)

DonnaMaria
02-12-2010, 01:09 AM
this is the link to the article

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204683204574358590107981718.html#a rticleTabs%3Darticle

NateR
02-12-2010, 01:16 AM
this is the link to the article

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204683204574358590107981718.html#a rticleTabs%3Darticle

That's sickening but it doesn't surprise me. I lived under government run health care for 10 years while I was in the Army. Just experiencing firsthand the way people are treated under that system is the #1 reason that I want ANY form of nationalized healthcare to die a quick death.

MattHughesRocks
02-12-2010, 01:27 AM
Maybe not but you for sure shouldn't be beating yourself up over it either.God forgives us and we need to do the same.


I failed her. I failed the baby. And I don't ever, ever want to forget that. I shouldn't forget that.

DonnaMaria
02-12-2010, 01:39 AM
Maybe not but you for sure shouldn't be beating yourself up over it either.God forgives us and we need to do the same.

Well, that's hard for me. Because my silence, my apathy ended up causing the death of another human being. I know that God forgives me, but it's hard to accept that I allowed it to happen. I sat by and did nothing.

So I am making sure that I don't sit by and allow things to happen again. So I appreciate this forum, as another way that I can get the word out. And not be silent again.

Maybe someone will read this....and know of someone who is thinking about getting an abortion......and maybe they will talk to that girl about it....and someone will be saved.

Choices of the Heart is a wonderful organization in NJ that has saved thousands of babies over the last 5 years. They councel expecting mothers and give women who are considering abortion free ultrasounds. Then, happily, many women decide to carry the baby to term and place the child for adoption.

MattHughesRocks
02-12-2010, 02:06 AM
I really do get it but there's nothing to tell you that if you'd have yelled, kicked, screamed and cried that she'd have listened to you anyway. Otherwise, you don't know.She very well could have done it no matter what you had done.

Well, that's hard for me. Because my silence, my apathy ended up causing the death of another human being. I know that God forgives me, but it's hard to accept that I allowed it to happen. I sat by and did nothing.

So I am making sure that I don't sit by and allow things to happen again. So I appreciate this forum, as another way that I can get the word out. And not be silent again.

Maybe someone will read this....and know of someone who is thinking about getting an abortion......and maybe they will talk to that girl about it....and someone will be saved.

Choices of the Heart is a wonderful organization in NJ that has saved thousands of babies over the last 5 years. They councel expecting mothers and give women who are considering abortion free ultrasounds. Then, happily, many women decide to carry the baby to term and place the child for adoption.

TexasRN
02-12-2010, 11:26 AM
A few years ago a friend of mine told me that one of his ex girlfriends had aborted his child. It tore him up and every year around the due date he got depressed and had to remember that his son or daughter would have celebrated another birthday. So the fathers of these aborted babies suffer too. The father has no choice in what happens to his baby.


~Amy

Neezar
02-12-2010, 01:02 PM
So sad.

Vizion
02-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Any pro-choice liberals want to address the issue of Sanger's comments???

Hello????

Miss Foxy
02-12-2010, 03:26 PM
so you want to live under a dictatorship ?
the problem with taking choice away from people is it will lead to more choices being taken away,and no Nate i do not think abortion is alright,that you already know....i just have a problem with throwing a blanket over it and saying all abortions are the same.

the case with Donna and her friend was a sad one alright but Donna did nothing wrong,it was never her job as a friend to talk her out of the abortion.
society failed that girl,not Donna...there should be manditory counseling in situations like that before an abortion could ever be done....if that were the case i think a lot of people would change their minds and not have an abortion at all.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I most certainly DID do something wrong. I failed my friend and I failed that child. I was an accessory to murder. I knew she was going to do it. I didn’t talk her out of it. And because I did nothing, two lives were destroyed. After the murder my friend was a walking shell, nothing like she was before the abortion. Before that horrific day she was a happy, personable woman who was vibrant and energetic and charismatic. After the abortion she was despondent, depressed, sad. She moved away and never contacted anyone within our group again. Since that day 22 years ago she has had a really difficult life and, I feel, has never recovered from the abortion. And I could have tried to stop it. And I didn’t. I have blood on my hands.

I failed her. I failed the baby. And I don't ever, ever want to forget that. I shouldn't forget that.
Don't be so hard on yourself. I know that you carry that guilt and burden, but your sorry and our God is forgiving. :wink: God Bless you sweetheart...

CAVEMAN
02-12-2010, 03:50 PM
Well, you claim to believe in GOD and absolute truth, but if that was true, then you wouldn't be so unwilling to commit to and stand up for those beliefs. I think it's more accurate to say that you want to believe, but aren't sure.

Anyways, the statement "There are no absolutes" is a contradiction and a logical impossibility. Because it is either false, or it is true and it makes itself false. Because if it was true, then the very statements itself, "There are no absolutes," would be an absolute; thus it completely negates itself.


Exactly! :applause:

flo
02-12-2010, 05:20 PM
It's the same now with abortion. People would rather sweep it under the rug and pretend it's not happening rather than face the truth that thousands of babies are being slaughtered every day.

I usually stay out of this debate but I have often thought that if abortions were televised, we'd see a dramatic drop in the numbers performed.

You are absolutely right, it is swept under the rug. That's why NARAL and the like choose their words very carefully and now use "pro-choice" over the inflammatory "abortion".

Margaret Sanger fought for women to have access to birth control; I agree with her there. But then she was also a proponent of eugenics and forced sterilization. Creepy and immoral (or criminal!), IMO.

flo
02-12-2010, 05:21 PM
{{{Donna}}}

flo
02-12-2010, 05:22 PM
On the lighter side, I LMAO at Amy's avatar.

TexasRN
02-12-2010, 05:25 PM
On the lighter side, I LMAO at Amy's avatar.

It's actually a t-shirt by a company called "Ranger Up." If you like my avatar, you should check this out:
http://www.rangerup.com/mensgear.html

There are some great shirts there.

~Amy

Neezar
02-12-2010, 05:41 PM
You know something else that gets me. How many times have you looked back to when you were a teenager or young adult and realize that even though you thought that you knew everything, you actually knew a little of nothing.

Our government has said that you have to be 21 to drink alcohol. Funny they can choose to kill their child at age 18 but aren't responsible enough to go out and buy a beer.

flo
02-12-2010, 06:18 PM
It's actually a t-shirt by a company called "Ranger Up." If you like my avatar, you should check this out:
http://www.rangerup.com/mensgear.html

There are some great shirts there.

~Amy

Great site, thanks for the link!

atomdanger
02-13-2010, 10:25 PM
Margaret Sanger also said, "We don't want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the negro population" (December 13, 1339)

Organizations like Planned Parenthood are pure evil an just the fact that Barack Obama associates himself with their goals eliminates any possibility that he is a Christian.

Oh come on that quote is kind of funny lol

Vizion
02-14-2010, 01:45 AM
Oh come on that quote is kind of funny lol So, considering her comments regarding the KILLING of INFANTS...do you believe her words regarding blacks were merely meant to be comical?

or is there another reason for the humour :huh:

NateR
02-14-2010, 02:01 AM
Oh come on that quote is kind of funny lol

Yeah, it might be funny if she wasn't 100% serious. Do some studying on the Eugenics movement from the 1920s. You'll see that it was not intended to be comical or sarcastic at all.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
02-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Planned Parenthood was founded by an Evil Woman for an Evil purpose!

Tyburn
02-14-2010, 10:31 PM
they sometimes drown baby girls in China :unsure-1: