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AMJ
02-08-2010, 04:18 AM
I personally think she has provided some great energy to the republican base but in terms of providing effective governing on a National or International level, I don't think she has the knowledge, skills, or abilities to be able to make those type of complex and nuanced decisions. Again, I think she can add value to the Republican party by taking over Michael Steele's position as the leader of the GOP, she definitely possesses the natural charm and political talent to handle that type of role, but her pursuit for Presidency is misguided in my opinion.

I don't want the next president reading notes off of her hand.. This is embarrasing, she was asked what were her top 3 priorities and she had to refer to the notes written on her hand? I'm sorry but just because she's your next door hockey mom does not mean she is intellectually capable for that type of role. Call me a "hater".... but I think the Republicans have a lot more candidates of far superior quality and resolve.

Republicans who I think would be far better candidates in the next election cycle would include Eric Cantor, Bobby Jindal, Tim Pawlenty, and Scott Brown.

Here's the link of Palin reading notes off of her hand at softball questions posed by her own biggest fans, the fact she had to resort to writing on her hand to recall her OWN points just makes my head hurt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtcVMTZkTZQ



AMJ.

NateR
02-08-2010, 04:19 AM
I don't want the next president reading notes off of her hand..


Hand, teleprompter, what's the difference? :rolleyes:

Miss Foxy
02-08-2010, 04:23 AM
No!! I do not like women in political positions..

NateR
02-08-2010, 04:28 AM
Anyways, yes, I would vote for Sarah Palin for President. She's the only reason I voted for McCain in the last election.

She can't be more of a disaster than Barack Obama has been, and she's definitely more in touch with what TRUE Americans believe, not anti-American, Progressive, Liberal idealogues.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 04:35 AM
You don't find it somewhat embarassing that Sarah Palin has trouble remembering 3 of her own main points? It's not like she's being interviewed with hard hitting questions by Katie Couric, like what magazines she reads. She couldn't even answer that, you're telling me a competent person can't tell you the name of 1 single magazine?


She couldn't even recall her own 3 main points of her political agenda, thats very weak if you ask me and demonstrates the lack of intellectual thought that is required of a president.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 04:40 AM
No!! I do not like women in political positions..

Why do you feel that way?

Miss Foxy
02-08-2010, 04:43 AM
Why do you feel that way? Just have my reasons.. Nothing imparticular..:unsure-1:

NateR
02-08-2010, 04:53 AM
You don't find it somewhat embarassing that Sarah Palin has trouble remembering 3 of her own main points? It's not like she's being interviewed with hard hitting questions by Katie Couric, like what magazines she reads. She couldn't even answer that, you're telling me a competent person can't tell you the name of 1 single magazine?


She couldn't even recall her own 3 main points of her political agenda, thats very weak if you ask me and demonstrates the lack of intellectual thought that is required of a president.

Well, someone who is already brainwashed into believing that she is stupid and incompetent is obviously going to interpret everything she does within that mindset.

I prefer to give people a chance and not just let the media tell me how to think.

Buzzard
02-08-2010, 04:57 AM
I hope she falls off and gets run over by her bandwagon.

NateR, why do you think she is qualified to be president, and what would she bring to the table? I hope that your not serious when you say you would vote for her, but then again you voted for McCain because of her. Very scary.

Well, someone who is already brainwashed into believing that she is stupid and incompetent is obviously going to interpret everything she does within that mindset.

I prefer to give people a chance and not just let the media tell me how to think.

Did you give Obama that same chance? Just curious. How did you come to your conclusion about Obama? Did you get your information from the media?

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:00 AM
Well, someone who is already brainwashed into believing that she is stupid and incompetent is obviously going to interpret everything she does within that mindset.

I prefer to give people a chance and not just let the media tell me how to think.

I never called her stupid anywhere in my thread, I merely said I don't think she is competent to be the President of the United States. I don't think there is anything wrong with that comment considering that being President is probably the most difficult position in the entire world, the majority of the world would be incompetent to be in that position. If you're refering to my "Hater" comment, that does not mean I actually hate her, I just think that the republicans can do a lot better. I even said she would make a remarkble candidate for the GOP leadership position that is currently headed by Michael Steele.

You prefer to give people a chance, is that sort of like the chance you are giving Obama after 1 year of being President and inheriting 2 wars and a few trillion dollars worth of a deficit, and then calling him a Muslim? Hell, I don't think he did all that of a good job but atleast i'm giving the guy a chance until 2012.

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:05 AM
I hope she falls off and gets run over by her bandwagon.

I find the unwarranted hatred that your average brainwashed Liberal has for Palin to be hilarious. :rolleyes:

NateR, why do you think she is qualified to be president, and what would she bring to the table? I hope that your not serious when you say you would vote for her, but then again you voted for McCain because of her. Very scary.

Yes, of course I would vote for her. Yes, I would vote for Sarah Palin for President. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Bonnie
02-08-2010, 05:11 AM
Hand, teleprompter, what's the difference? :rolleyes:

Exactly...none.

What happened to Barack Obama (and others) when his (their) teleprompter failed? He wasn't such a smooth talker then. :wink:

I don't think Palin "couldn't" remember what she read; I think she was just flabbergasted (and ticked) at being asked such an asinine question. I notice Katie Couric didn't ask the "men" candidates that question. Couric may have had her "gotcha" moment, but she did herself and all women a disservice doing it.

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:15 AM
You prefer to give people a chance, is that sort of like the chance you are giving Obama after 1 year of being President and inheriting 2 wars and a few trillion dollars worth of a deficit, and then calling him a Muslim? Hell, I don't think he did all that of a good job but atleast i'm giving the guy a chance until 2012.

Let's not even go down the "blame George W. Bush" road. That's a cop-out and cowardly. Obama needs to man-up and start taking resposibility for his own decisions. Villifying Bush for the first stimulus, in October 2008, is idiotic since Obama voted in favor of it as a Senator.

Obama had his chance as President until he forced through the second stimulus bill last February. He's spending too much money too quickly and needs to be stopped for the good of the country.

He's been a train wreck this first year and has only come off as arrogant, power hungry and completely incompetent. And I'm not even going to mention all the campaign promises that he's broken.

Basically I've seen everything I needed to see from Obama to know that I will never support him.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:16 AM
I find the unwarranted hatred that your average brainwashed Liberal has for Palin to be hilarious. :rolleyes:



Yes, of course I would vote for her. Yes, I would vote for Sarah Palin for President. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


What sort of policies and initiatives does she bring to the table? I respect her abortion stance, that's really the only political viewpoint she is able to articulate in confidence. Outside of that, where has she demonstrated a true ability to LEAD and be able to fully grasp the obstacles that compromises the international political landscape?

She's a charming woman with a lot of catch phrases, but the buck stops there. She's little substance, for example, her entire policy on the energy crisis is "Drill baby Drill".. She actually said that in an interview when asked about what she thinks of McCain's Energy policy.

I'll tell you right now if Eric Cantor or Scott Brown ran for president I think Obama would be in for a fight to hold on, but if it were Palin, he would win in a landslide. Imagine Palin going up against Obama in a debate, it would be almost cruel... Like putting in me in the ring with Matt Hughes, I would have to cry just to make him stop.

Bonnie
02-08-2010, 05:19 AM
Let's not even go down the "blame George W. Bush" road. That's a cop-out and cowardly. Obama needs to man-up and start taking resposibility for his own decisions. Villifying Bush for the first stimulus, in October 2008, is idiotic since Obama voted in favor of it as a Senator.

Obama had his chance as President until he forced through the second stimulus bill last February. He's spending too much money too quickly and needs to be stopped for the good of the country.

He's been a train wreck this first year and has only come off as arrogant, power hungry and completely incompetent. And I'm not even going to mention all the campaign promises that he's broken.

Basically I've seen everything I needed to see from Obama to know that I will never support him.

I'll mention one, "transparency". I thought he might come thru on that one, but, none of them do.

J.B.
02-08-2010, 05:21 AM
She's a charming woman with a lot of catch phrases, but the buck stops there.

Catch phrases? :unsure-1:

You mean like...

http://riflesready.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/barack_obama_change_fairey.jpg

http://bergmeister.web-log.nl/bergmeister/images/2009/01/19/obama_hope.jpg

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/images/2008/11/05/obama_change_yes.jpg

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:25 AM
What sort of policies and initiatives does she bring to the table? I respect her abortion stance, that's really the only political viewpoint she is able to articulate in confidence. Outside of that, where has she demonstrated a true ability to LEAD and be able to fully grasp the obstacles that compromises the international political landscape?

She's a charming woman with a lot of catch phrases, but the buck stops there. She's little substance, for example, her entire policy on the energy crisis is "Drill baby Drill".. She actually said that in an interview when asked about what she thinks of McCain's Energy policy.

I'll tell you right now if Eric Cantor or Scott Brown ran for president I think Obama would be in for a fight to hold on, but if it were Palin, he would win in a landslide. Imagine Palin going up against Obama in a debate, it would be almost cruel... Like putting in me in the ring with Matt Hughes, I would have to cry just to make him stop.

Well, the media is dedicated to destroying her character, so of course any campaign she is involved in from her on out will be pretty ugly.

I support the idea of drilling for oil in Alaska. So I don't see what's wrong with "Drill, baby, drill."

She is a big supporter of gun rights and the Christian values that this nation was founded upon. So, those are big plusses.

Also, I would hope that she would take the same attitude towards foreign policy and the War on Terror as George W. Bush. That's what we need.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:26 AM
Exactly...none.

What happened to Barack Obama (and others) when his (their) teleprompter failed? He wasn't such a smooth talker then. :wink:

I don't think Palin "couldn't" remember what she read; I think she was just flabbergasted (and ticked) at being asked such an asinine question. I notice Katie Couric didn't ask the "men" candidates that question. Couric may have had her "gotcha" moment, but she did herself and all women a disservice doing it.


There is a huge difference is preparing for a live speech and one that you know you will have a teleprompter. Do you honestly think Obama is a weak speaker? Even his biggest critics will admit that his biggest skill has been his public speaking. Obama actually accepted the GOP's offer to a Question & Answer just 2 weeks ago, where he took on some really hard hitting questions from his biggest critics without any heads up.

You put Palin in a room of Democrats and she'll be carved up like last years Christmas Turkey. Obama has the intellectual capacity to take on difficult questions and articulate them with poise and a depth of understanding. However, I do agree his 1st year as President has been pretty shaky and I really hope he can pull it together.


Let's not even go down the "blame George W. Bush" road. That's a cop-out and cowardly. Obama needs to man-up and start taking resposibility for his own decisions. Villifying Bush for the first stimulus, in October 2008, is idiotic since Obama voted in favor of it as a Senator.

Obama had his chance as President until he forced through the second stimulus bill last February. He's spending too much money too quickly and needs to be stopped for the good of the country.

He's been a train wreck this first year and has only come off as arrogant, power hungry and completely incompetent. And I'm not even going to mention all the campaign promises that he's broken.

Basically I've seen everything I needed to see from Obama to know that I will never support him.

It's not about "Blaming" George Bush as much as accepting reality that Obama didn't inherit a good starting point. But I have to agree with you that he wanted the position, he said he had the solutions, and thus far he has not delivered. Where I disagree with you is that you're not giving him a chance if you honestly think you can summarize his overall success in 1 year. That's not very fair.

I don't think thats fair at all, you should atleast keep an open mind and accept that he has 3 more years to deliver on his promises. You are essentially refusing to entertain the notion that he can improve, and that is not giving a person a chance. That is called being stubborn.

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:30 AM
I'll mention one, "transparency". I thought he might come thru on that one, but, none of them do.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.:laugh:

Catch phrases? :unsure-1:

You mean like...

http://riflesready.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/barack_obama_change_fairey.jpg

http://bergmeister.web-log.nl/bergmeister/images/2009/01/19/obama_hope.jpg

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/images/2008/11/05/obama_change_yes.jpg

:laugh: It's funny how the Liberals will continue to defend Obama's "all style, no substance" form of leadership, but criticize Palin for the EXACT same faults that Obama displays almost everyday.

It just never ceases to amaze me how blind and completely out of touch with reality Liberals have become.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:35 AM
Well, the media is dedicated to destroying her character, so of course any campaign she is involved in from her on out will be pretty ugly.

I support the idea of drilling for oil in Alaska. So I don't see what's wrong with "Drill, baby, drill."

She is a big supporter of gun rights and the Christian values that this nation was founded upon. So, those are big plusses.

Also, I would hope that she would take the same attitude towards foreign policy and the War on Terror as George W. Bush. That's what we need.


You think we need more George W. Bush? Dude, you're calling me out of touch? He had the worst presidential ratings in decades, so much so, that even republicans didn't want to touch him with a 10 foot pole.

I also don't appreciate you calling me liberal just because I am defending Obama. I don't consider myself a liberal nor a conservative, I just don't think you were being truthful when you said "you would give anyone a fair chance"..

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:37 AM
I don't think thats fair at all, you should atleast keep an open mind and accept that he has 3 more years to deliver on his promises. You are essentially refusing to entertain the notion that he can improve, and that is not giving a person a chance. That is called being stubborn.

Why would I want him to deliver on his promises if I believe that those same promises will severely damage this country?

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:40 AM
You think we need more George W. Bush? Dude, you're calling me out of touch? He had the worst presidential ratings in decades, so much so, that even republicans didn't want to touch him with a 10 foot pole.

There is a reason that you think everyone hates Bush Jr. and it has nothing to do with Bush Jr. It's the same reason that Obama got elected and Palin is so hated and misunderstood. It's called the media.

I also don't appreciate you calling me liberal just because I am defending Obama. I don't consider myself a liberal nor a conservative, I just don't think you were being truthful when you said "you would give anyone a fair chance"..

Okay, I will amend that, I will give anyone who is not a Progressive Liberal a fair chance.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:42 AM
Why would I want him to deliver on his promises if I believe that those same promises will severely damage this country?

Well, then I guess we just disagree on that level. I firmly believe the decisions that George W. Bush made during his administration made this country worse off and you don't.

I am hoping that Obama will be able to stimulate the economy, provide clean energy solutions, and focus on actually catching Bin Laden and destroying Al-Qaeda instead of sending us in wild goose chases for WMD's.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on Palin, as well.

NateR
02-08-2010, 05:49 AM
Well, then I guess we just disagree on that level. I firmly believe the decisions that George W. Bush made during his administration made this country worse off and you don't.

I am hoping that Obama will be able to stimulate the economy, provide clean energy solutions, and focus on actually catching Bin Laden and destroying Al-Qaeda instead of sending us in wild goose chases of WMD's.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on Palin, as well.

Yeah, I thought Bush's foreign policy was great and I would have supported the War in Iraq even without 9/11. In fact, one of the reasons that I voted for Bush in 2000 was because I had hoped that he would finish what his father had started and rid the world of that monster Saddam Hussein (who most definitely did have weapons of mass destruction at one point).

Anyways, I'm willing to agree to disagree. :cool:

AMJ
02-08-2010, 05:51 AM
There is a reason that you think everyone hates Bush Jr. and it has nothing to do with Bush Jr. It's the same reason that Obama got elected and Palin is so hated and misunderstood. It's called the media.

Okay, I will amend that, I will give anyone who is not a Progressive Liberal a fair chance.


In regards to the bold, it has nothing to do with the media, you could virtually take a look at any independent polling agency and it would show you that Bush jr had terrible exit polls.


Anyways, you guys have a good night.. Let's hope for some peace and prosperity in 2010!...

later.

NateR
02-08-2010, 06:03 AM
In regards to the bold, it has nothing to do with the media, you could virtually take a look at any independent polling agency and it would show you that Bush jr had terrible exit polls.


A lot of that could be blamed on the economy and the bank bailout. I was against the bank bailout and I didn't think Bush Jr. was all that great in handling the economy. Most of my support for Bush was with the way he handled foreign policy and the War on Terror.

Anyways, if we really want to talk about polls, then Obama had the lowest approval rating, at the 11-month mark of his Presidency, of any President on record. I'm not sure what his current numbers are, but I can't imagine they have changed much taking into account the recent election in Massachusetts.

Also, as a member of the US Senate in 2008, Obama shared a lower approval rating than George W. Bush.

AMJ
02-08-2010, 06:13 AM
Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think 11 months is a good indicator of how well a President can do, I essentially like to look at the polls at the 48th month in all honesty, NateR.

Listen, without getting into the bitterness of Right wing vs Left wing or Liberal vs Conservative. I just think no matter who is President, that person deserves respect because they are the commander in chief. I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized, he definitely hasn't lived up to expectations *thus far*. However, I also like to think that there should be a level of civility in American politics because as the world's leading democracy, The American political system should lead by example, this means cooperation, sacrifice, respect, and reaching goals for the betterment of this nation.

I think its disappointing to see so much hatred on both sides of the aisle and eventually it will only lead to the decline of this nation if common ground cannot be reached. That's why i'm going to support leaders who can show they can bring people together on issues instead of isolating themselves to only 1 group.


Anyhow, i'm really going to call it a night now. I'm exhausted, I had way too many ribs while watching the superbowl... The eyes are bigger than the stomach.

NateR
02-08-2010, 06:46 AM
I just think no matter who is President, that person deserves respect because they are the commander in chief.

I wish the Liberals held those ideals during the last Bush administration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWH6W_sMng

Anyhow, i'm really going to call it a night now. I'm exhausted, I had way too many ribs while watching the superbowl... The eyes are bigger than the stomach.

I know how you feel, we had meatballs, tamales, lil' smokies, pheasant nuggets and duck wings. It's hard to stick to a diet when everything is so good.

Bonnie
02-08-2010, 06:53 AM
There is a huge difference is preparing for a live speech and one that you know you will have a teleprompter. Do you honestly think Obama is a weak speaker? Even his biggest critics will admit that his biggest skill has been his public speaking. Obama actually accepted the GOP's offer to a Question & Answer just 2 weeks ago, where he took on some really hard hitting questions from his biggest critics without any heads up.

You put Palin in a room of Democrats and she'll be carved up like last years Christmas Turkey. Obama has the intellectual capacity to take on difficult questions and articulate them with poise and a depth of understanding. However, I do agree his 1st year as President has been pretty shaky and I really hope he can pull it together.

Lots of people use notes when giving live speeches. Teleprompters fail as we've seen, so coming prepared, teleprompter or no, should be a given. And, yes, I think Obama is a gifted speaker/orator. That's what got him noticed to begin with at the Democratic convention a few years back and what got him elected. IMO I guess time will tell if he is a man of his word or just a man of words.

I see where this is the "hot" topic on the news and internet. Big surprise! :rolleyes: I can see this being a minor story, but to be one of the top news stories? This just supports what Nathan said regarding the media. They played a huge (biased) part in trashing Palin during the elections and glorifying Obama. They are still going after her grabbing onto every faux pas she makes. If that's what people are going to judge her on, that she wrote three words on her hand to look at, I think it speaks more to the ? of their intelligence rather than hers.

Mark
02-08-2010, 02:57 PM
Palin for President.

Mark
02-08-2010, 03:00 PM
No!! I do not like women in political positions..

Is it because women aren't as smart as men?

Mark
02-08-2010, 03:02 PM
I am hoping that Obama will be able to stimulate the economy, provide clean energy solutions, and focus on actually catching Bin Laden and destroying Al-Qaeda instead of sending us in wild goose chases for WMD's..

You voted for Obama? If you had to do it again would you vote for him?

County Mike
02-08-2010, 03:18 PM
Is it because women aren't as smart as men?

:laugh:

Twinsmama
02-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Is it because women aren't as smart as men?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I would vote for her.

Miss Foxy
02-08-2010, 05:03 PM
Is it because women aren't as smart as men?

Dumb!! lol Mark seriously I have no straight answer as to why I don't like women in political offices I just don't..I have been pondering as to why..IDK..:unsure-1:

Buzzard
02-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Palin for President.

You say you wouldn't want a woman as a spiritual leader but would want her to be the leader of our nation. Interesting.

Mark
02-08-2010, 05:57 PM
You say you wouldn't want a woman as a spiritual leader but would want her to be the leader of our nation. Interesting.

I believe this nation was based on Christian values. She is the only Christian person running. Do you agree?

rearnakedchoke
02-08-2010, 06:07 PM
nah ... bobby jindal is the only one that can save the republican party ... he may not be able to take out barack, but he would have the best chance ... but we shall see

NateR
02-08-2010, 06:26 PM
You say you wouldn't want a woman as a spiritual leader but would want her to be the leader of our nation. Interesting.

The body of Christ and our federal government are two completely different organizations. Thus the rules for one don't necessarily apply to the other.

Bonnie
02-08-2010, 07:12 PM
Is it because women aren't as smart as men?

You know why I think women would make better politicians, Mark, our brain isn't conflicted by two heads.

Mark
02-08-2010, 07:20 PM
You know why I think women would make better politicians, Mark, our brain isn't conflicted by two heads. :tongue0011:

Ha...Ha...Ha
Put this in the joke thread. We are trying to have a serious conversation.

Bonnie
02-08-2010, 07:36 PM
Ha...Ha...Ha
Put this in the joke thread. We are trying to have a serious conversation.

You're right. I apologize. I should have left off the "neener". Makes all the difference. Fixed.

Seriously, I'm glad to hear you would vote for a woman for President. Now that we've had our first black president, there's hope....

Hey, I wonder if Palin could borrow Barrack's "Change, Hope....and let's not forget....Yes We Can". You think he'd mind? :huh:

Mark
02-08-2010, 07:42 PM
....

Hey, I wonder if Palin could borrow Barrack's "Change, Hope....and let's not forget....Yes We Can". You think he'd mind? :huh:

He wont mind he's not using them.

flo
02-08-2010, 08:35 PM
Well, someone who is already brainwashed into believing that she is stupid and incompetent is obviously going to interpret everything she does within that mindset.

I prefer to give people a chance and not just let the media tell me how to think.


Word.

flo
02-08-2010, 08:58 PM
This whole brouhaha that has the left's panties in a knot is all very amusing.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/02/awesome-palin-campaigns-for-rick-perry-writes-hi-mom-on-her-hand-pics/

NateR
02-08-2010, 09:45 PM
This whole brouhaha that has the left's panties in a knot is all very amusing.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/02/awesome-palin-campaigns-for-rick-perry-writes-hi-mom-on-her-hand-pics/

Just continues to reveal the hypocritical double-standard that we have all come to expect from the brainwashed Liberal idiots.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 02:18 AM
You voted for Obama? If you had to do it again would you vote for him?

A decision has been made, the man is the elected leader of this nation. At the end of the day, I think citizens should atleast give him a chance to complete his first term. I'm not sure about you, but I didn't expect him to make America whole again within 1 year. That's impossible and I think it would be only fair to judge him for what he has 'accomplished' or what he has 'not accomplished' at the end of his term. At that point, you can exercise your right to either vote for him or vote against him.

But don't you think giving him 1 year is a bit premature and unfair? What if the economy starts to take a real positive turn by 2012, you just don't know what will happen. There is a lot of time left.


I wish the Liberals held those ideals during the last Bush administration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWH6W_sMng



I know how you feel, we had meatballs, tamales, lil' smokies, pheasant nuggets and duck wings. It's hard to stick to a diet when everything is so good.


Yeah, but no matter who is in charge the extremes on either side will always criticize, you can't do anything about it. Thats where the American Political system needs changing. But, I honestly think Bush was given a lot of leeway since he was a War Time President.

The American people aren't stupid, whether you were against Saddam from desert storm, he was not responsible for 9/11, Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were. The fact they both still exist will forever be a giant failure for Bush...

It's like I come and Burn your house down, hurt your family and kill your dog. You eventually come looking for me but can't find me, so you go take your anger out on some dude who got into a fight with your Dad back in the day and kick the living crap out of him. At the end of the day, I still burned down your house and you didn't do anything about it. Only what Bush did was put American soldiers lives and a lot of tax dollars at stake for a dictator who had nothing to do with 9/11. And just to let you know, if you take a closer look, it was the CIA under a Republican administration back in the day which bank-rolled Saddam Hussien. When you give a crazy dictator a lot of training and weapons, it can backfire on you.

I don't care how the Neo-conservatives try and spin it, but I will never forgive Bush for letting the Man that attacked us on 9/11 get away while he was in power for 8 years.

NateR
02-09-2010, 02:47 AM
I'm not sure about you, but I didn't expect him to make America whole again within 1 year.

The only people claiming that this country is "not whole" anymore are the crackpot brainwashed Liberals. Obama didn't need to do anything to fix America because there was nothing wrong with America to begin with.

Not all of us thought Bush was a bad President. In fact, I would have voted for him a third time if given the opportunity.

I'm sorry that you can be so easily swayed by the Liberal media; but not all of us are so quick to lose faith in our country and what it stands for.

Yeah, but no matter who is in charge the extremes on either side will always criticize, you can't do anything about it. Thats where the American Political system needs changing. But, I honestly think Bush was given a lot of leeway since he was a War Time President.

The American people aren't stupid, whether you were against Saddam from desert storm, he was not responsible for 9/11, Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were. The fact they both still exist will forever be a giant failure for Bush...

It's like I come and Burn your house down, hurt your family and kill your dog. You eventually come looking for me but can't find me, so you go take your anger out on some dude who got into a fight with your Dad back in the day and kick the living crap out of him. At the end of the day, I still burned down your house and you didn't do anything about it. Only what Bush did was put American soldiers lives and a lot of tax dollars at stake for a dictator who had nothing to do with 9/11. And just to let you know, if you take a closer look, it was the Republicans back in the day who bank-rolled Saddam Hussien to take over Iraq. When you give a crazy dictator a lot of money and power, it can backfire on you.

I don't care how the Neo-conservatives try and spin it, but I will never forgive Bush for letting the Man that attacked us on 9/11 get away while he was in power for 8 years.

Still the War in Iraq was the right thing to do. Saddam most definitely did have weapons of mass destruction, we know this for a fact:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/Barada73/halabja.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/Barada73/halabja-1.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/Barada73/Kurds.jpg
Photos from the chemical weapons attack on Halabja in 1988.

Liberals are only rubbing it in the fact that Osama bin Laden escaped the last 8 years because he escaped the last 8 years. If he had been captured and killed, like Saddam Hussein, then you can bet that those same brainwashed Liberals would be trying to play down Osama's role in the 9/11 attacks.

It's just yet another cheap Liberal tactic to tear down the 7 years of safety that George W. Bush gave us. Liberals aren't in the habit of giving credit where credit is due when talking about Conservatives. This is why it's good policy to never trust anything that a Liberal says.

J.B.
02-09-2010, 02:53 AM
It's like I come and Burn your house down and kill your family and your dog and you come looking for me but can't find me.. So you go take your anger out on some dude who got into a fight with your Dad and kick the living crap out of him. At the end of the day, I still burned down your house and you didn't do anything about it. Only what Bush did was put American soldiers lives and a lot of tax dollars at stake for a dictator who had nothing to do with 9/11. And just to let you know, if you take a closer look, it was the Republicans back in the day who bank-rolled Saddam Hussien to take over Iraq. When you give a crazy dictator a lot of money and power, it can backfire on you.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but do you know WHY we bankrolled Saddam way back then?

Your analogy is a bit ridiculous. After 9/11, we declared a War on Terrorism, not just Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. That means combating any groups that are plotting attacks against Americans and their allies.

What about all the people we DID catch or kill that were connected to 9/11? What about the money that Saddam was paying to the families of suicide bombers? What about the fact that groups like Ansar Al-Islam operated for years inside of Iraq? There were a lot of reasons that support the decision to go into Iraq. The loss of life has been greater than I think we ever imagined it would be, but that only further goes to show just what kind of enemy we are up against.

Mark
02-09-2010, 03:00 AM
You never answered my question.

But don't you think giving him 1 year is a bit premature and unfair?

I did not give him a year you did.

Mark
02-09-2010, 03:02 AM
Ha...Ha...Ha
Put this in the joke thread. We are trying to have a serious conversation.

I do have a joke for you guys.

























"Free" healthcare

NateR
02-09-2010, 03:10 AM
I do have a joke for you guys.

























"Free" healthcare

:laugh:

How do you tell if Barack Obama is lying?







His lips are moving.

J.B.
02-09-2010, 03:21 AM
Question: Why doesn't Obama laugh at himself?

Answer: Because it would be racist.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 03:28 AM
I believe this nation was based on Christian values. She is the only Christian person running. Do you agree?

No, I don't believe that she was the only Christian running. BTW, she wasn't running for president, McCain was. Do you know any of the other candidates which were running and what religions they called their own?

Why do you think a woman would be capable of running the country but not capable of leading a ministry?

Yes, of course I would vote for her. Yes, I would vote for Sarah Palin for President. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

What qualities does she possess which Obama doesn't which make you think she would be a qualified president? What platforms and strategies did she use to make you think she is more qualified than Obama during the last election? Was it because she could see Russia from Alaska?:laugh:

AMJ, you sound like a rational person, and your views and opinions are well stated without needing to resort to the lame catch-phrases which are so overused by certain folks in here. I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.


EDIT:

It's funny how the Liberals will continue to defend Obama's "all style, no substance" form of leadership, but criticize Palin for the EXACT same faults that Obama displays almost everyday.


Nice to finally see you admit that Palin was all style and no substance. Why you would still vote for her is a mystery to me.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 03:35 AM
You never answered my question.



I did not give him a year you did.

I'm pretty sure you can connect the dots on what my answer would be. I would never have given a vote to a ticket that had Sarah Palin a few heart beats away from Presidency. I don't think she's nearly qualified enough to be the President of this country. Lipstick and Bulldog lines aren't enough for me, sorry folks.

Secondly, you may have not given him your vote but the majority of this country did.. That's called democracy and it's a civic process that is embedded within the fabric of this country and something that warrants respect. Just because your "Team" lost doesn't mean he's not the leader of this country.. He still deserves Respect.. That's just me, though.. I guess some people are choosing to ignore the civility that once existed in the political process.

Anyways, looks like any serious discussion is done here.. Until next time.

NateR
02-09-2010, 03:41 AM
Was it because she could see Russia from Alaska?:laugh:

That's a cheap shot that I've come to expect from someone like you. Sarah Palin never actually said, "I can see Russia from my house." That was actually Tina Fey doing a parody of Sarah Palin.

Here is the entire conversation which was misconstrued by the media in their character assassination of Palin:

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they're doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I'm giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.

If you read it, you'll notice that Charles Gibson actually brought up the subject of Russia being in close proximity to Alaska. Palin was simply responding to that specific question.

Of course, it was edited to make her looks as stupid as possible and gullible people who are pre-determined to hate any Conservative just gobble that crap up.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 03:48 AM
That's a cheap shot that I've come to expect from someone like you. Sarah Palin never actually said, "I can see Russia from my house." That was actually Tina Fey doing a parody of Sarah Palin.

Here is the entire conversation which was misconstrued by the media in their character assassination of Palin:



If you read it, you'll notice that Charles Gibson actually brought up the subject of Russia being in close proximity to Alaska. Palin was simply responding to that specific question.

Of course, it was edited to make her looks as stupid as possible and gullible people who are pre-determined to hate any Conservative just gobble that crap up.



The way she articulated her response was terrible and really showed her lack of understanding of the whole process of what was occuring in Georgia.

LOL @ "We will not repeat a Cold-War"... Obviously, Communism was defeated a long time ago. I understand her point but the reference itself was extremely misguided. Just because two countries disagree on foreign policy does not mean "war", and the fact she starts talking about avoiding a Cold War was foolish.

What is she exactly talking about pressuring Russia, and "reminding" them it is in their benefit. That's why Medvedev and Putin both criticized her language. She does not understand the complexities and nuances of International policy, that takes years and years to formulate, it does not come over night. A guy like Obama who is an academic, a trained lawyer, possesses the intellectual capacity to recognize the importance of these type of situations, and that what a President says can have enormous effects.



She would not make an effective leader of this country.

NateR
02-09-2010, 03:51 AM
Secondly, you may have not given him your vote but the majority of this country did.

False. The majority of people who voted voted for Obama, not the majority of the country.

Obama received 62,704,840 votes, which was 52% of votes cast; but only accounts for about 20.6% of the entire American population.

So it is factually inaccurate to say that the majority of Americans voted for Obama.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 03:58 AM
False. The majority of people who voted voted for Obama, not the majority of the country.

Obama received 62,704,840 votes, which was 52% of votes cast; but only accounts for about 20.6% of the entire American population.

So it is factually inaccurate to say that the majority of Americans voted for Obama.

Well, alot of this country are not of voting age, and you can't say for certain that those who didn't vote, would have only voted for McCain.

Bottom line, the people who cared enough about their civic duty, elected Obama. Regardless of your point, he won.

I can also get into Bush's election win and Florida, but oh well right.. Atleast, Obama actually won.

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:01 AM
She would not make an effective leader of this country.

This is just your opinion and your liberal bias is starting to show through more and more.

Mark
02-09-2010, 04:03 AM
I don't think she's nearly qualified enough to be the President of this country.

But Obama was?

AMJ
02-09-2010, 04:05 AM
This is just your opinion and your liberal bias is starting to show through more and more.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, I don't have any bias. I even said in the first post that there are actual republicans who exist that I would potentially support.

The fact remains is you ignore a lot of my points and just accuse me of having a liberal bias. Atleast, I am trying to engage in a discussion with you. Just because I do not support Palin does not mean i'm incapable of recognizing good conservative/Republican policy.


Really NateR, you're really starting to stretch, now.

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:06 AM
Well, alot of this country are not of voting age, and you can't say for certain that those who didn't vote, would have only voted for McCain.

That's not my point. I was just exposing your lie that "the majority of this country" voted for Obama.

Bottom line, the people who cared enough about their civic duty, elected Obama.

Well, 52% of them anyway.

I can also get into Bush's election win and Florida, but oh well right.. Atleast, Obama actually won.

C'mon now, you're disappointing me with all of this tired and ridiculous George W. Bush hate. I thought you were more intelligent than that.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 04:10 AM
But Obama was?

Honestly, I think McCain was a good candidate, and if he didn't listen to the ultra-rights in his corner and picked a more sensible VP, I bet he would have made that a really tight race.

Yeah, he picked up like steam engine with Palin during the announcement as her being the running-mate, but boy did that engine fall apart fast.

But yes, I thought Obama was a good candidate at the time, and although he has disappointed me this year, I will hope that he can turn it around by the end of his first term.. If not, then I guess i'll look very close at the alternatives.

Mark
02-09-2010, 04:12 AM
No, I don't believe that she was the only Christian running. BTW, she wasn't running for president, McCain was. Do you know any of the other candidates which were running and what religions they called their own?

Why do you think a woman would be capable of running the country but not capable of leading a ministry?

Christianity is what we are talking about? What do you know about that? I dont want to turn you off. It would be the best choice you have ever made. But you personally know nothing about it.
Obama calls himself a Christian, but i dont think he is by his actions.

AMJ
02-09-2010, 04:16 AM
That's not my point. I was just exposing your lie that "the majority of this country" voted for Obama.



Well, 52% of them anyway.



C'mon now, you're disappointing me with all of this tired and ridiculous George W. Bush hate. I thought you were more intelligent than that.


It wasn't exactly a lie, when I stated country, I am aware that every single person doesn't vote in the United States. I was just correlating voters to this country, and it's true.. The Majority of voters, voted for him. Its irrelevant
that people didn't vote, if they cared, they would have.


I was using the Bush reference just to make light of the situation. Since you and Mark were also doing the same thing with the your own jokes. C'mon, if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it aswell.

Mark
02-09-2010, 04:17 AM
AMJ, you sound like a rational person, and your views and opinions are well stated without needing to resort to the lame catch-phrases which are so overused by certain folks in here. I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.

As you can tell Buzzard is in need of companionship.

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:18 AM
I don't have any bias.

Um, yeah, that's not true. As I learned in Sociology, anyone who claims to be unbiased is either self-delusional or a liar.

I've never attempted to hide my political biases. I will support Conservatives and believe that only Bible-believing Christians are capable of running this country the way the Founding Fathers envisioned it. Anyone who runs on a Progressive Liberal platform is an enemy of America and will never have my support.

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:21 AM
I was using the Bush reference just to make light of the situation. Since you and Mark were also doing the same thing with the your own jokes. C'mon, if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it aswell.

Do you really believe that Bush didn't actually win in 2000?

flo
02-09-2010, 04:21 AM
I don't have any bias.


I can also get into Bush's election win and Florida, but oh well right.. Atleast, Obama actually won.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

AMJ
02-09-2010, 04:23 AM
As you can tell Buzzard is in need of companionship.



:huh:

bradwright
02-09-2010, 04:26 AM
Um, yeah, that's not true. As I learned in Sociology, anyone who claims to be unbiased is either self-delusional or a liar.

I've never attempted to hide my political biases. I will support Conservatives and believe that only Bible-believing Christians are capable of running this country the way the Founding Fathers envisioned it. Anyone who runs on a Progressive Liberal platform is an enemy of America and will never have my support.

your a puppet Nate....plain and simple.

flo
02-09-2010, 04:27 AM
In case you missed it, AMJ, Bush "actually won" too. Every organization under the sun tried to get a majority of those votes to tally for Gore but - even using the most liberal counting methods possible - could not manage to do so.

I guess next we'll be talking about the Rathergate "documents" of GWB's Nat'l Guard service that were done on Windows, lol.

Because it's all about Chimpy McBu$hitler, right?

AMJ
02-09-2010, 04:27 AM
Um, yeah, that's not true. As I learned in Sociology, anyone who claims to be unbiased is either self-delusional or a liar.

I've never attempted to hide my political biases. I will support Conservatives and believe that only Bible-believing Christians are capable of running this country the way the Founding Fathers envisioned it. Anyone who runs on a Progressive Liberal platform is an enemy of America and will never have my support.

You're taking what I said out of context, you accused me of having a liberal bias. I don't believe I have any [liberal] bias, because I know if there was Republican candidate who offered better solutions in the next election, I would support that candidate.

If a Ronald Reagan 2.0 came out, you bet your ass, I would support him. Not for his "Christian Values" per se, but because of good governing.


As for the election in 2000, i'm actually not to educated on that and the politics behind it. However, don't you recall the jokes you were making.. "How do you know Obama is lying, his lips are moving"..

I was doing the same thing. Sort of a double standard if you can make jokes and I can't.

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:37 AM
your a puppet Nate....plain and simple.

If Jesus Christ is the puppetmaster, then I'll take that as a compliment. :)

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:41 AM
As for the election in 2000, i'm actually not to educated on that and the politics behind it. However, don't you recall the jokes you were making.. "How do you know Obama is lying, his lips are moving"..

I was doing the same thing. Sort of a double standard if you can make jokes and I can't.

It wasn't worded like a joke, so I apologize for misunderstanding your intentions.

Boomer
02-09-2010, 04:42 AM
I looove me some Sarah :)

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 04:47 AM
That's a cheap shot that I've come to expect from someone like you. Sarah Palin never actually said, "I can see Russia from my house." That was actually Tina Fey doing a parody of Sarah Palin.

Here is the entire conversation which was misconstrued by the media in their character assassination of Palin:



If you read it, you'll notice that Charles Gibson actually brought up the subject of Russia being in close proximity to Alaska. Palin was simply responding to that specific question.

Of course, it was edited to make her looks as stupid as possible and gullible people who are pre-determined to hate any Conservative just gobble that crap up.

Where exactly did I state that she said she could see Russia from her house? Oh, that's right, I didn't.

Let me get this straight, you can take cheap shots and call anyone who isn't a conservative Christian any name in the book and state that they are brainwashed idiots, but you take offense when I make a joke about Palin and a statement where she said you could see Russia from Alaska. Did you miss the smiley emoticon? Strange set of values you have.

flo
02-09-2010, 04:47 AM
I thought you were serious too, AMJ or I wouldn't have piled on.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively! :happydancing:

NateR
02-09-2010, 04:49 AM
Where exactly did I state that she said she could see Russia from her house? Oh, that's right, I didn't.

Let me get this straight, you can take cheap shots and call anyone who isn't a conservative Christian any name in the book and state that they are brainwashed idiots, but you take offense when I make a joke about Palin and a statement where she said you could see Russia from Alaska. Did you miss the smiley emoticon? Strange set of values you have.

No offense taken, just educating you on the proper context of that statement.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 05:10 AM
As you can tell Buzzard is in need of companionship.

WTF? I sure hope you're not coming on to me, that's a little weird. I don't roll that way. Thanks though.

Christianity is what we are talking about?

No it wasn't. My response was to this response of yours.

I believe this nation was based on Christian values. She is the only Christian person running. Do you agree?

I said no I don't agree. I then asked if you knew any of the other candidates running and what their religious affiliations were.


What do you know about that? I dont want to turn you off. It would be the best choice you have ever made. But you personally know nothing about it.
Obama calls himself a Christian, but i dont think he is by his actions.

How do you know what I know about Christianity? I probably know much more than you think. In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

No offense taken, just educating you on the proper context of that statement.

Yeah right. When will you stop taking the cheap shots that so offend you?

To set the record straight on the 2000 election, Gore had the majority popular vote.

Mark
02-09-2010, 05:15 AM
I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

No you don't know.

NateR
02-09-2010, 05:17 AM
WTF? I sure hope you're not coming on to me, that's a little weird. I don't roll that way. Thanks though.


Watch yourself here, don't give me a reason to ban you. Mark was clearly making a reference to how you don't have any friends on the forums.

Mark
02-09-2010, 05:19 AM
Watch yourself here, don't give me a reason to ban you. Mark was clearly making a reference to how you don't have any friends on the forums.

Thats all I was saying. If you want to be my friend OK... but we wont talk much.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 05:33 AM
No you don't know.

Yes, I do. You are the one who won't check out what I have stated. I'm not sure why you won't check it out, but that is for you to research and make your decisions based upon what you find.

Watch yourself here, don't give me a reason to ban you. Mark was clearly making a reference to how you don't have any friends on the forums.

For your information, I do have a few friends on here. I just don't suck up to you like some of the other folks on here.

It seems Mark is able to speak for himself and wasn't offended by my retort. You should lighten up a bit NateR.

If I offended you Mark, my apologies. To be honest though, your post was somewhat offensive. I can live with that though.

Mark
02-09-2010, 05:40 AM
Yes, I do. You are the one who won't check out what I have stated. I'm not sure why you won't check it out, but that is for you to research and make your decisions based upon what you find.



For your information, I do have a few friends on here. I just don't suck up to you like some of the other folks on here.

It seems Mark is able to speak for himself and wasn't offended by my retort. You should lighten up a bit NateR.

If I offended you Mark, my apologies. To be honest though, your post was somewhat offensive. I can live with that though.

Sorry. No you did not offend me at all.
It did look like you were sucking up to AMJ though.

Mark
02-09-2010, 05:45 AM
Yes, I do.



Main Entry: Chris·tian·i·ty
Pronunciation: \ˌkris-chē-ˈa-nə-tē, ˌkrish-, -ˈcha-nə-, ˌkris-tē-ˈa-\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies
2 : conformity to the Christian religion
3 : the practice of Christianity

Sorry you dont know about christianity.

NateR
02-09-2010, 05:49 AM
In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

Read More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell, it explains why these "facts" of yours are simply untrue.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 05:53 AM
Sorry. No you did not offend me at all.
It did look like you were sucking up to AMJ though.

Not sucking up to AMJ, just liked the fact that he could post in a rational civilized manner. It's refreshing to read. There are some folks on here who have very differing opinions on matters than I, yet they are always civil in their replies. I value and will take into account their viewpoints because of their delivery. Other folks could learn from them. I know I am.

Now if you want me to list names of suck ups, that will take me some time to compile and type out that many names.:laugh:

Mark
02-09-2010, 05:55 AM
Now if you want me to list names of suck ups, that will take me some time to compile and type out that many names.:laugh:

Yes just PM the names to me. We don't want to hurt any feelings.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 06:05 AM
Read More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell, it explains why these "facts" of yours are simply untrue.

In a nutshell, what proof does he show? I highly doubt he has any proof that could withstand any peer review or scrutiny. Without having read his book though, I can't claim that as fact.

Funny thing, someone from another forum sent me a book claiming that if I read it, I would realize that I was wrong and that it would prove it all to me. It fell far short of that goal and only strengthened my belief in my disbelief. I doubt if I read your book that it would be any different. I have an open mind though and if I can get my hands on a copy, I'll read it. Can it be found online in it's entirety anywhere that you are aware of?

Have you done any research into my claims? If you haven't, how can you know what similarities and plagiarisms I am talking about?


Sorry you dont know about christianity.

Not to be rude, but again Mark, I know more than you think. I just don't believe everything that is in the Bible. Yes, I have read the Bible from cover to cover, but it has been awhile and I am rusty in being able to quote from it. Luckily I have two of them near to check things out when in need.

NateR
02-09-2010, 06:12 AM
Funny thing, someone from another forum sent me a book claiming that if I read it, I would realize that I was wrong and that it would prove it all to me.

What book was it?

I'll send you a copy of McDowell's book if you want one.

NateR
02-09-2010, 06:16 AM
Have you done any research into my claims? If you haven't, how can you know what similarities and plagiarisms I am talking about?

Yes, I have because I used to think that the Bible couldn't possibly be 100% true.

Buzzard
02-09-2010, 06:27 AM
What book was it?

I'll send you a copy of McDowell's book if you want one.

I can't recall the title and don't have it here because I lent it to my brother. Give me a couple days and I'll get the information for you.

Thanks for your kind offer. I don't wish to bother you and have you go out of your way on my account. I do appreciate the offer. I'll see if I can find it here if I get down to the library anytime soon. It's been a good year since I made it down to a library and a trip is due.

NateR
02-09-2010, 06:30 AM
I can't recall the title and don't have it here because I lent it to my brother. Give me a couple days and I'll get the information for you.

Thanks for your kind offer. I don't wish to bother you and have you go out of your way on my account. I do appreciate the offer. I'll see if I can find it here if I get down to the library anytime soon. It's been a good year since I made it down to a library and a trip is due.

Alrighty, but let me know if you can't find it because I've got an extra copy that you can have.

Oddtodd76
02-09-2010, 07:27 AM
I will vote for her!:happydancing:

rockdawg21
02-09-2010, 12:54 PM
Not jumping on this one.

Silverback
02-09-2010, 01:55 PM
I am not jumping on the band wagon, I will just say what I said the last time, If Hillary Clinton was the one last time I would have voted for her, the reason being, I told people that time, "Maybe thats what we need a woman to come in and clean the mess up that the men have left us with, they sure as hell can't do any worse", so lets see what kind of response I get out of that statement.:fighting0028::stirthepot::sign0011:

Vizion
02-09-2010, 02:25 PM
So women don't make messes....??? :laugh:

Silverback
02-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Didnt say that, I do think this country needs change and do not beleive Obama is the change we need. I will go out on a limb and say this fine country we live in needs, (how should I put this) a different logic, the old way of thinking don't work in the new era that we live in. So give a woman a chance, to either clean it up or mess it up. :ninja: Now I will go hide and watch for awhile.So women don't make messes....??? :laugh:

Vizion
02-09-2010, 03:05 PM
I will go out on a limb and say this fine country we live in needs, (how should I put this) a different logic, the old way of thinking don't work in the new era that we live in. So give a woman a chance, to either clean it up or mess it up. So you don't know what a woman can bring (give her a chance), but are willing to entrust the most powerful office in the world to a woman because she has different logic than a man?

Explain the different logic...give some examples...how would a woman's logic in foreign affairs, taxes, education etc be different/better than a mans?

Silverback
02-09-2010, 04:03 PM
So you don't know what a woman can bring (give her a chance), but are willing to entrust the most powerful office in the world to a woman because she has different logic than a man?

Explain the different logic...give some examples...how would a woman's logic in foreign affairs, taxes, education etc be different/better than a mans?

Maybe the term logic was not correct, should have used a new way of thinking, and we all know a woman has a different thought process then a man. As far as entrusting the most powerful office in the world to a woman, we entrusted it to G.W.Bush and look what he did, sort of like the bull in the china cabinet way of thinking. Foreign Affairs already there, Hillary Clinton, and lets not forget Rice and Albright. Education, when I went to school 85% of the teachers was women, and with my son's going to school I see the same thing,I have no problem with the way the school is ran I have a problem with the way the district is ran, 3 men on the board and 1 woman and she keeps them in check, because if she see's a problem she talks to the parents and gets them involved and at the board meetings to voice their opinions. So if its change we need and we do, then lets put the right change in there and see what happens.

rearnakedchoke
02-09-2010, 04:23 PM
Not sucking up to AMJ, just liked the fact that he could post in a rational civilized manner. It's refreshing to read. There are some folks on here who have very differing opinions on matters than I, yet they are always civil in their replies. I value and will take into account their viewpoints because of their delivery. Other folks could learn from them. I know I am.

Now if you want me to list names of suck ups, that will take me some time to compile and type out that many names.:laugh:

Yes ... we are listening ... we want to know who the suck-ups are .. .LOL

Vizion
02-09-2010, 04:32 PM
Maybe the term logic was not correct, should have used a new way of thinking, and we all know a woman has a different thought process then a man. As far as entrusting the most powerful office in the world to a woman, we entrusted it to G.W.Bush and look what he did, sort of like the bull in the china cabinet way of thinking. Foreign Affairs already there, Hillary Clinton, and lets not forget Rice and Albright. Education, when I went to school 85% of the teachers was women, and with my son's going to school I see the same thing,I have no problem with the way the school is ran I have a problem with the way the district is ran, 3 men on the board and 1 woman and she keeps them in check, because if she see's a problem she talks to the parents and gets them involved and at the board meetings to voice their opinions. So if its change we need and we do, then lets put the right change in there and see what happens. That's your reasoning for a female president :unsure-1: To "keep them men in check":rolleyes:

The school district I live in has one of the worst performance rates in the nation. Guess what? Women on the school board, and the female superintendent are feminists who push female learning systems on boys. The boys here are failing school and dropping out left and right because of political correctness which seems to demand that boys become like girls to learn. Kind of like shoving a square peg through a round hole.

But that's education. And the women in charge here keeping all those men in check have blown it. You want to roll the dice, try a woman president....ok...but I know a lot of women myself who wouldn't agree with that.

Silverback
02-09-2010, 04:53 PM
So I take it you don't like the ideal of a woman for President, and you just love the way the country is being ran, And you just LOVE all the taxes and the bail-outs that our kids are going to be paying for and lets not forget all the illegal aliens, so on and so forth.:tongue0011::tongue0011::tongue0011:lThat's your reasoning for a female president :unsure-1: To "keep them men in check":rolleyes:

The school district I live in has one of the worst performance rates in the nation. Guess what? Women on the school board, and the female superintendent are feminists who push female learning systems on boys. The boys here are failing school and dropping out left and right because of political correctness which seems to demand that boys become like girls to learn. Kind of like shoving a square peg through a round hole.

But that's education. And the women in charge here keeping all those men in check have blown it. You want to roll the dice, try a woman president....ok...but I know a lot of women myself who wouldn't agree with that.

rearnakedchoke
02-09-2010, 04:54 PM
I don't understand how a woman is stereotyped as a leader? Do we even have enough precidence or proof that all women lead in the same manner? i would have no problems with women leading countries, companies, churches etc. They are just as competent as men ...

J.B.
02-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Yes ... we are listening ... we want to know who the suck-ups are .. .LOL

Yeah, let's see the list Buzz....

Twinsmama
02-09-2010, 05:06 PM
Yes ... we are listening ... we want to know who the suck-ups are .. .LOL


i'm pretty sure i can help with that list.....all the girls suck up to mark!:laugh:

CAVEMAN
02-09-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm pretty sure you can connect the dots on what my answer would be. I would never have given a vote to a ticket that had Sarah Palin a few heart beats away from Presidency. I don't think she's nearly qualified enough to be the President of this country. Lipstick and Bulldog lines aren't enough for me, sorry folks.

Secondly, you may have not given him your vote but the majority of this country did.. That's called democracy and it's a civic process that is embedded within the fabric of this country and something that warrants respect. Just because your "Team" lost doesn't mean he's not the leader of this country.. He still deserves Respect.. That's just me, though.. I guess some people are choosing to ignore the civility that once existed in the political process.

Anyways, looks like any serious discussion is done here.. Until next time.


It's called blind stupidity!

CAVEMAN
02-09-2010, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=Buzzard;98154]How do you know what I know about Christianity? I probably know much more than you think. In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.QUOTE]

Prove it!

Miss Foxy
02-09-2010, 06:09 PM
Yeah, let's see the list Buzz....

Yes, I am curious.. No feelings hurt on this side Buzzard.:wacko:

Miss Foxy
02-09-2010, 06:10 PM
i'm pretty sure i can help with that list.....all the girls suck up to mark!:laugh:
Lol.. Hmm actually I fight with Mark..teehee..Wait he's gonna get me for being off topic...:w00t:

Vizion
02-09-2010, 06:16 PM
So I take it you don't like the ideal of a woman for President, and you just love the way the country is being ran, And you just LOVE all the taxes and the bail-outs that our kids are going to be paying for and lets not forget all the illegal aliens, so on and so forth.Well, who wouldn't love all that?!? :happydancing: However, what woman was IN office matters more than just BEING a woman, yea?

J.B.
02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Yes, I am curious.. No feelings hurt on this side Buzzard.:wacko:

We want the list! :laugh:

rearnakedchoke
02-09-2010, 06:35 PM
We want the list! :laugh:

BUZZARD!!! We want the list!

Mark
02-09-2010, 07:00 PM
How do you know what I know about Christianity? I probably know much more than you think. In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

Prove it!

Great reply. thank you for stating the obvious.

CAVEMAN
02-09-2010, 07:53 PM
Great reply. thank you for stating the obvious.

Buzzard says the Bible is full of myths and tales, he should back up his claims.

J.B.
02-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Buzzard says the Bible is full of myths and tales, he should back up his claims.

Buzzard thinks this forum is full of people who suck up to Nate. He should back up his claims.

We want the list. :)

Vizion
02-09-2010, 08:24 PM
Buzzard thinks this forum is full of people who suck up to Nate. He should back up his claims.

We want the list. :)He can put ME on the list! :laugh: Of course, I respect Nate highly, if that means I'm sucking up to him then Oh well.

flo
02-09-2010, 08:38 PM
He can put ME on the list! :laugh: Of course, I respect Nate highly, if that means I'm sucking up to him then Oh well.

Same here. Make room for me on the suck-up couch, Vizion.

Silverback
02-09-2010, 08:42 PM
I sucked up last weekend:tongue0011::tongue0011::tongue0011:Same here. Make room for me on the suck-up couch, Vizion.

NateR
02-09-2010, 09:00 PM
I just suck up to Mark, I didn't think anyone sucked up to me. :unsure-1:

:laugh:

Tyburn
02-09-2010, 11:26 PM
I personally think she has provided some great energy to the republican base but in terms of providing effective governing on a National or International level, I don't think she has the knowledge, skills, or abilities to be able to make those type of complex and nuanced decisions. Again, I think she can add value to the Republican party by taking over Michael Steele's position as the leader of the GOP, she definitely possesses the natural charm and political talent to handle that type of role, but her pursuit for Presidency is misguided in my opinion.

I don't want the next president reading notes off of her hand.. This is embarrasing, she was asked what were her top 3 priorities and she had to refer to the notes written on her hand? I'm sorry but just because she's your next door hockey mom does not mean she is intellectually capable for that type of role. Call me a "hater".... but I think the Republicans have a lot more candidates of far superior quality and resolve.

Republicans who I think would be far better candidates in the next election cycle would include Eric Cantor, Bobby Jindal, Tim Pawlenty, and Scott Brown.

Here's the link of Palin reading notes off of her hand at softball questions posed by her own biggest fans, the fact she had to resort to writing on her hand to recall her OWN points just makes my head hurt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtcVMTZkTZQ



AMJ.
can she be worse then Obama :huh:

If the answer is NO...Go for her... :laugh:

Tyburn
02-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I just suck up to Mark, I didn't think anyone sucked up to me. :unsure-1:

:laugh:

I try...but you take no notice of me :mellow:

:laugh:

Neezar
02-10-2010, 04:20 AM
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2010/02/09/billboard.jpg

:laugh:

Mark
02-10-2010, 05:14 AM
In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales.


Prove it!

I want to see this Buzzard. So please go get your proof.

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 05:19 AM
I want to see this Buzzard. So please go get your proof.

Give me one second Mark. I am typing up a response as we speak. It will have a 10 minute video with the names of many tales for you to check out for yourself, explaining the similarities and down right copying. I do ask that you watch it and respond after. Fair?

Bonnie
02-10-2010, 05:26 AM
I am not jumping on the band wagon, I will just say what I said the last time, If Hillary Clinton was the one last time I would have voted for her, the reason being, I told people that time, "Maybe thats what we need a woman to come in and clean the mess up that the men have left us with, they sure as hell can't do any worse", so lets see what kind of response I get out of that statement.:fighting0028::stirthepot::sign0011:

:wub:

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 05:35 AM
Buzzard says the Bible is full of myths and tales, he should back up his claims.

Caveman, Mark, read the tale of Mithra, Horus, and others listed in the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY&feature=player_embedded#

If you don't watch it, how can we have this discussion? I await your response. I am only using this video to consolidate my response. You should actually read the tales of those discussed to show you that I'm not lying about it. If you have any videos for me to watch to refute the one I linked you to, I'll gladly watch them or read what you provide, provided you extend to me the courtesy of watching that video in its entirety. It's just under 11 minutes in length. Thanks.



To get back on track with the original topic of Sarah Palin, I send you to this site to watch this video. I lol'd.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2010/02/09/2010-02-09_stephen_colbert_defends_sarah_palin_on_colbert_ report_calls_her_a_fing_retard.html

There is a small commercial in the beginning. I'll link to the same video without the commercial.

http://www.rolandsmartin.com/blog/?p=2530

Listening to her old interviews again made me think that yes she is. Here is a loller link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSP5OoxYMVI

I really find it troubling that folks would actually vote for her. Is she really that dumb? Granted, the last video was clipped to make her look more stupid, if that could be possible. Listening to her made me realize how lucky we were that she and McCain weren't elected. If the Repubs put up a good candidate, I'll vote Republican, she is not a good candidate and they will never get my vote with her on a ticket. Shoot, she quit her last official job. I'd vote for Chael Sonnen long before I would ever vote for her. I actually like Chael.

NateR
02-10-2010, 05:44 AM
Caveman, Mark, read the tale of Mithra, Horus, and others listed in the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY&feature=player_embedded#

If you don't watch it, how can we have this discussion? I await your response. I am only using this video to consolidate my response. You should actually read the tales of those discussed to show you that I'm not lying about it. If you have any videos for me to watch to refute the one I linked you to, I'll gladly watch them or read what you provide, provided you extend to me the courtesy of watching that video in its entirety. It's just under 11 minutes in length. Thanks.


That's just a clip from that ridiculous Zeitgeist movie. That thing was clearly written by someone who doesn't know the first thing about what Christians believe and why we believe it.

Mark
02-10-2010, 05:50 AM
I wanted proof. Where is it. Is this all you have...seriously.

wpnsman2000
02-10-2010, 05:54 AM
WAR PALIN

NateR
02-10-2010, 05:54 AM
I wanted proof. Where is it. Is this all you have...seriously.

Yeah, whoever made that movie can't even tell the difference between Christian beliefs and Catholic beliefs.

Mark
02-10-2010, 05:58 AM
Yeah, whoever made that movie can't even tell the difference between Christian beliefs and Catholic beliefs.
and jesus was born December 25th

Mark
02-10-2010, 06:09 AM
Well Buzzard do you have a reply? Tell me something in the Bible that is false, and have the proof. And dont just type in in on YouTube and show us some corny video.

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 06:17 AM
That's just a clip from that ridiculous Zeitgeist movie. That thing was clearly written by someone who doesn't know the first thing about what Christians believe and why we believe it.

And? Read the tales of the folks listed in there and see for yourself. If you would read my post, I said I put the video there to list the people and the similarities. Read the tales and come back to me if you disagree with what it stated. Are you stating that what was said in regard to the myths told there are lies when it comes to the striking similarities in the tales and the Bible? Have you read any of those stories or are you just going to claim it's a lie without reading them?

I wanted proof. Where is it. Is this all you have...seriously.

You asked me to provide information to show that the Bible was taken and plagiarized from other stories. The video provided named the mythological figures and showed the similarities. Surely you don't want me to rewrite those tales here on this forum do you? Read the tales for yourself and then tell me if what I claimed is false. Here is my original claim for your convenience.


In fact, I know enough about it to know that many of the tales are myths and that there are numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, and that many of the tales were plagiarized from earlier myths and tales. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are doing yourself a disservice.


Now, I did not address the inconsistencies in the Bible, I will give you that. I will provide details of that later on this week. I need to get some sleep so I can get up early enough to try shoveling myself out from under the massive amount of snow I have in my driveway.

Yeah, whoever made that movie can't even tell the difference between Christian beliefs and Catholic beliefs.

Do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin on Dec. 25 just like Horus, Mithra etc.? Aren't those Christian beliefs too?

and jesus was born December 25th

So were these folks.

Horus, an ancient Egyptian Sun God, is introduced as having a number of attributes similar to that of many of the religious deities which came after him, including but not limited to Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra and Jesus Christ; these attributes include a virgin birth on December 25, twelve disciples, burial for three days, resurrection, and performing of miracles.

Quote taken from wikipedia describing part I of the movie.

So, am I lying to say that these striking similarities in and of the Bible are plagiarized from these older myths?

What facts do you have to refute my claims NateR. Can you show where in the myths listed that the information provided is incorrect?

Mark
02-10-2010, 06:20 AM
And


Do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin on Dec. 25 just like Horus, Mithra etc.? Aren't those Christian beliefs too?

Born of a virgin not on Dec 25th. That is the day we celebrate it.
You read the Bible where did it say Dec 25th at?

NateR
02-10-2010, 06:32 AM
Do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin on Dec. 25 just like Horus, Mithra etc.? Aren't those Christian beliefs too?

Jesus was not actually born on December 25th and every Christian knows that (Mark's response was one of sarcasm). It's a date that was chosen over 300 years after the fact to commemorate Christ's birth, because the actual date was never recorded. Most likely Jesus' birth was in September or October, but Orthodox Christians celebrate Jesus' birth on January 19th.

December 25th was a pagan festival honoring false gods centuries before Christ was born. It was chosen as the day to represent Christ's birth to give Christians an alternative reason to celebrate during that holiday, so they didn't need to get caught up in all the pagan festivities. However, Christmas was considered a completely pagan festival for centuries afterward and it was originally banned in the American colonies. It wasn't until the 1850s that the Baptist Church in America started to allow their congregations to celebrate Christmas. I'm not sure when other denominations started to allow it, but I would assume that the Baptists would be the longest hold outs.

NateR
02-10-2010, 06:36 AM
Quote taken from wikipedia describing part I of the movie.

So, am I lying to say that these striking similarities in and of the Bible are plagiarized from these older myths?

What facts do you have to refute my claims NateR. Can you show where in the myths listed that the information provided is incorrect?

Yeah, because we all know what a reliable source of information Wikipedia is.:rolleyes:

I would like to see the makers of that Zeitgeist movie actually produce some evidence for their claims. I have a feeling that more than a little "creative interpretation" (read: stretching the truth) was involved.

Besides, once they started to claim that George W. Bush orchestrated 9/11, they revealed themselves for the braindead, Liberal crackpots that they are and lost any ounce of credibility that they might have had.

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 06:42 AM
Well Buzzard do you have a reply? Tell me something in the Bible that is false, and have the proof. And dont just type in in on YouTube and show us some corny video.

Hey Mark, you know how to read, correct? EDIT: Not being smarmy, I could see how this could be taken as an insult and it is not my intention. Reading it back to myself I could see how it could be taken that way. END EDIT I suggest you read some of the tales named in the video for yourself to see that what was stated is correct. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Can you prove to me that the Noah's Ark tale is true, or is that just a good story? Do believe that everything in the Bible is literally true? I need to know where you stand on what you believe to be true tales or just good stories. No offense meant. Do you believe the name Jesus Christ was his given name? Do you believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, give or take a few hundred years?

I'd love to give you links to read so I don't have to type out many many pages of reply content so this thread can remain on topic, but I can hear the chorus of "it's liberal bias" before even beginning to post a link.

Can you refute anything I have posted yet?

Born of a virgin not on Dec 25th. That is the day we celebrate it.
You read the Bible where did it say Dec 25th at?

So the celebration is copied from the myths provided. Can't recall if I ever read in the Bible that the birth was on 12/25. Can't recall much of what I read now, which is why I like having the 2 Bibles close so I can get information quickly when needed. What do you have to say about the other similarities?

Jesus was not actually born on December 25th and every Christian knows that (Mark's response was one of sarcasm). It's a date that was chosen over 300 years after the fact to commemorate Christ's birth, because the actual date was never recorded. Most likely Jesus' birth was in September or October, but Orthodox Christians celebrate Jesus' birth on January 19th.


Thanks for that info. I would be willing to bet you that not every Christian knows that Jesus' birth date was not 12/25. You are stretching the truth there NateR.

Thanks for keeping it civil so far. WADR, I don't wish to knock you for your beliefs and hope that you don't take my replies in that way. If I am offending you or others, I truly apologize for that and we can call and end to this discussion now. If you wish to continue it, I'm glad to be a part of it as long as we can remain civil towards each other. I am enjoying this and am learning as we progress. Thanks for the input and opportunity to have this discussion.

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 06:54 AM
Yeah, because we all know what a reliable source of information Wikipedia is.:rolleyes:

So you have a problem with wikipedia's description of Part I of the movie? I felt that it was quite accurate. What do you find to be wrong with it?


I would like to see the makers of that Zeitgeist movie actually produce some evidence for their claims. I have a feeling that more than a little "creative interpretation" (read: stretching the truth) was involved.

Aren't the myths themselves good enough for you or do you think that they made the stories of the myths up? Have you read the tales for yourself, or are you just going to make that claim without having read them?


Besides, once they started to claim that George W. Bush orchestrated 9/11, they revealed themselves for the braindead, Liberal crackpots that they are and lost any ounce of credibility that they might have had.

Again, read the myths of the figures listed and then tell me what you think. If you don't read them, how can you claim that they are false? I have read them, in high school and years ago. I need to read them again to refresh my memory, but I don't think the clip that I linked is wrong in information provided in regard to the myths themselves. If it is, then I will gladly retract my statements about them and will gain knowledge in doing so. I'm not trying to lie to you, as there is nothing to gain and much to lose if I do that.

Mark
02-10-2010, 06:54 AM
Hey Mark, you know how to read, correct?
Only short stories.

I challenge you to prove me wrong.
Im not reading that. I just wasted 10 min on YouTube for nothing.

Can you prove to me that the Noah's Ark tale is true, or is that just a good story? Do believe that everything in the Bible is literally true? I need to know where you stand on what you believe to be true tales or just good stories.
I believe everything in the Bible.

Do you believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, give or take a few hundred years?
If that is the math with what the Bible says, yes.

What do you have to say about the other similarities?
Just similarities.
I am enjoying this also.

NateR
02-10-2010, 07:13 AM
Aren't the myths themselves good enough for you or do you think that they made the stories of the myths up? Have you read the tales for yourself, or are you just going to make that claim without having read them?


I've read most of those myths. Check out the book, The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. He talks about how many Christian and Catholic symbols, holidays and traditions are actually thinly disguised pagan worship.

Christmas, Christmas Eve, Easter, the symbol of the mother and the child, Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, Christmas trees, the Yule log, the Pope, nuns, the Catholic Priesthood, even the symbol of the Cross all have their origins in the Pagan worship of false gods.

That fact doesn't change the truth of who Jesus is, however.

flo
02-10-2010, 07:23 AM
I sucked up last weekend:tongue0011::tongue0011::tongue0011:

:laugh: :laugh:

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 07:24 AM
I am enjoying this also.

Mark, I find that if you won't at least read or research the stories provided, how can you give an honest answer? I've read the Bible and plan on another reading of it. I've put a bit of time in replying, is it too much to ask of you to do the same in regards to the claims I have made.

I'll gladly take time to list some contradictions which I have found with the help of the internet, but won't list them until I have actually verified through my two Bibles that what I list is accurate. I would hope that you would show me the same courtesy.


I believe everything in the Bible.

I know you believe everything in the Bible, but do you believe that everything in the Bible actually happened, or are some of the stories in it just used to make a point? I remember reading in the old forum a reply of NateR's in which he stated that not everything in the Bible actually happened, but some were just stories which made a point. Do you believe the same, and if so, which do you believe actually happened and which do you believe are just stories to make a point?


If that is the math with what the Bible says, yes.

I don't mean to try and trap you or anything, so if you aren't sure of anything please just say so. I gather from your answer that you haven't really thought about that question before. My apologies if that an inaccurate assumption on my part.

As for the similarities, why do you not think that they were taken from earlier stories and put into the Bible? Doesn't it seem a little strange that there are so many similarities? I know I do. In fact, if I were to write a story using the exact same similarities and claim it as my own work I would be sued for plagiarization.

I really need to get some sleep now, thanks for the replies.

flo
02-10-2010, 07:25 AM
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2010/02/09/billboard.jpg

:laugh:

:w00t: I love it!

Tyburn
02-10-2010, 12:48 PM
I am enjoying this also.

:laugh::laugh:

Tyburn
02-10-2010, 12:53 PM
I've read most of those myths. Check out the book, The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. He talks about how many Christian and Catholic symbols, holidays and traditions are actually thinly disguised pagan worship.

Christmas, Christmas Eve, Easter, the symbol of the mother and the child, Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, Christmas trees, the Yule log, the Pope, nuns, the Catholic Priesthood, even the symbol of the Cross all have their origins in the Pagan worship of false gods.

That fact doesn't change the truth of who Jesus is, however.

Furthermore, as Symbols are just physical tokens that point to something and in themselves have no meaning outside of that to which they point...it is fine to use a symbol that has been used to point to one thing, and change it to point to another....its no less valid.

:)

But I think with the majority on your list, there is no need to keep them as Christian symbols at all...The Easter Egg was never a Christian Symbol to begin with, neither the rabit nor yule.

Christmas Trees maybe, the cross is alright.

Also bear in mind the rest of the Christian World outside of the Christian Right see Catholicism as a valid form of Christianity...even if it does have symbology and heirachy purely used only within that denomination.

I would aggree with the Office of the Pope as being bogus though, as that pre-supposes Apostolic Succession which is a HUGE assumption based on one single verse of the Bible taken out of all context :laugh:

adamt
02-10-2010, 01:23 PM
I've read most of those myths. Check out the book, The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. He talks about how many Christian and Catholic symbols, holidays and traditions are actually thinly disguised pagan worship.

Christmas, Christmas Eve, Easter, the symbol of the mother and the child, Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, Christmas trees, the Yule log, the Pope, nuns, the Catholic Priesthood, even the symbol of the Cross all have their origins in the Pagan worship of false gods.

That fact doesn't change the truth of who Jesus is, however.


i think it all boils down to the why not the what, God is a discerner of the heart and spirit

NateR
02-10-2010, 05:59 PM
I remember reading in the old forum a reply of NateR's in which he stated that not everything in the Bible actually happened, but some were just stories which made a point. Do you believe the same, and if so, which do you believe actually happened and which do you believe are just stories to make a point?


I think I was referring to Jesus' parables, which were clearly categorized as parables in the text.

The accounts of Creation, Noah's Ark, Jonah and the Fish, etc. are all historical events, not fairy tales.

Primadawn
02-10-2010, 06:47 PM
Wait...what was the topic again? :laugh:

First of all, I will say that while I am not against females in political roles, I'm not sure that the current climate makes it a good time to have a female president. Most of our enemies and many countries that we have a tenuous relationship with are primarily comprised of members of a religion that places no value on women, so I would think that would make her job much harder, if not impossible.
That said, I WOULD vote for Sarah Palin against Barack Obama or any other liberal she was running against if she got the nomination. All other things being equal (hypothetically), I would vote for her or anyone else on abortion stance alone. I cannot stand behind a leader who has no respect for human life.

My feeling, though, is that if the next 3 years go anything like the last one...ANY republican will win handily against Obama.

Primadawn
02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
OH! And as far as the public speaking thing...who cares? So much emphasis is put on how "eloquent" our public figures are.

Speeches and promises don't run a country. I don't care if she had to look at her hand, write it on the back of a napkin or crack open a dictionary! It's like my favorite history teacher's thoughts on open-book tests: "I don't care if you know how to memorize...show me you can find the right answer!"

Primadawn
02-10-2010, 06:54 PM
P.S. Am I on the suck-up list? :ninja:

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 07:25 PM
I think I was referring to Jesus' parables, which were clearly categorized as parables in the text.

The accounts of Creation, Noah's Ark, Jonah and the Fish, etc. are all historical events, not fairy tales.

To set the record straight: I don't ever recall me calling the stories fairy tales, I called them myths. If I did, I apologize and will try to not do that again.

Do you have any proof to back your claims up? I'd like to see that. The Noah's Ark tale is also a myth along with the many other flood stories. You honestly believe that two of every creature on earth were put onto a ship and then released after this flood? That is beyond belief. I can't possibly fathom how one could believe that to be a historical fact and highly await your sources of proof so I can read it for myself.

I'd be willing to accept that the story was taken and adapted from some truths of real floods, and then extended into the story that we have today. I can't believe that the story is an actual historical account. Again, I highly await your proofs.

Tyburn
02-10-2010, 08:29 PM
To set the record straight: I don't ever recall me calling the stories fairy tales, I called them myths. If I did, I apologize and will try to not do that again.

Do you have any proof to back your claims up? I'd like to see that. The Noah's Ark tale is also a myth along with the many other flood stories. You honestly believe that two of every creature on earth were put onto a ship and then released after this flood? That is beyond belief. I can't possibly fathom how one could believe that to be a historical fact and highly await your sources of proof so I can read it for myself.

I'd be willing to accept that the story was taken and adapted from some truths of real floods, and then extended into the story that we have today. I can't believe that the story is an actual historical account. Again, I highly await your proofs.


The Flood is an historical fact. The Summerian King List is not a "Myth" its a list of Kings that rulled the early Mesopotamia basin before and after the flood. They MENTION the flood...thats not story, that an historical document...Egypt also has a legend of a flood...and the Indus Valley has a burried city off the north west coast of India which hasnt been on dry land since the run off, from the last Ice Age...that would date it prior to any large civilization...unless of course there was a culture lost in a flood....there are many myths about continents, Islands, and the likes dissapearing into the sea.

Myths, you might have from one culture....but when all the ancient cultures retell the same myth...thats going to far...logically there must have been SOME flood.

btw...It doesnt need to be a world wide flood. Civilization both before and after the flood was concentrated in one area of the globe, flood the entire middle east, between Africa and India...et viole...all the people on the planet perish...it also means that those animals that needed saving would be slightly less in number...the Scriptures dont put a lot of geographical limits on things...it says all the animals...like...that could mean every animal on earth...or it could mean all the animals Humans have come into contact with.

if you read the account there are measurements for the Ark of Noah. There is even a full scale reproduction of it in Europe...made by an enthusiast. he followed the measurements laid out in the bible, and the rough schematic for how many levels it should have.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/325099094/828964


Besides...I dont think Noah collected all the animals...I have a feeling that GOD probably provided all the animals.

The problem with people like you Buzzard is your focus on a meaningless detail...and it is meaningless...because although an historical account, the whole of the Torah is symbolic on a great number of levels which you wont know about without a significant understanding of ancient hebrew...which carried numerical values for each of its letters, and word orders and the likes...thats why when you read some of the Psalms of David you think wow...but then the little bit at the bottom will say "an acrostic of the Alphabet" which means each line begins with the succeeding letter in the alphabet...one that is AS MUCH of numerical importance, then of literary understanding.

You might understand these little details if you could understand ancient Hebrew :)

Bonnie
02-10-2010, 08:35 PM
To set the record straight: I don't ever recall me calling the stories fairy tales, I called them myths. If I did, I apologize and will try to not do that again.

Do you have any proof to back your claims up? I'd like to see that. The Noah's Ark tale is also a myth along with the many other flood stories. You honestly believe that two of every creature on earth were put onto a ship and then released after this flood? That is beyond belief. I can't possibly fathom how one could believe that to be a historical fact and highly await your sources of proof so I can read it for myself.

I'd be willing to accept that the story was taken and adapted from some truths of real floods, and then extended into the story that we have today. I can't believe that the story is an actual historical account. Again, I highly await your proofs.

God is beyond what our little "human" minds can comprehend, Buzzard. That is where FAITH comes in. If you limit yourself to only what you understand or can see or touch, the accounts that have been written in the Bible for us will always be beyond belief for you and no amount of "proof" will convince you otherwise. I'm confused from your posts in other threads as to how you pick and choose what you believe is true from the Bible. You sound like a non-believer, yet you've posted you learned right and wrong from your mom and dad and from what the Ten Commandments teaches us. Even though you've stated before you're not being contradictory, it seems you're all over the place.

If neither side is going to be swayed by the other (despite any "proofs" or the lack thereof), further debate seems pointless to me. JMHO :wink:

But, whatever.... :laugh:

Bonnie
02-10-2010, 08:47 PM
Wait...what was the topic again? :laugh:



Uhmmm..... :unsure-1:

:laugh:

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 10:24 PM
God is beyond what our little "human" minds can comprehend, Buzzard. That is where FAITH comes in. If you limit yourself to only what you understand or can see or touch, the accounts that have been written in the Bible for us will always be beyond belief for you and no amount of "proof" will convince you otherwise.

If you have proof of something, I seriously take that into consideration. Unfortunately, no proof has been shown to me or to other non-believers which can stand the scrutiny and is actual proof. If I am wrong, kindly list these proofs and again I will gladly acknowledge that I was in error.


I'm confused from your posts in other threads as to how you pick and choose what you believe is true from the Bible. You sound like a non-believer, yet you've posted you learned right and wrong from your mom and dad and from what the Ten Commandments teaches us. Even though you've stated before you're not being contradictory, it seems you're all over the place.

It's not that hard to follow. I learned things from my parents, and also learned from the Golden Rule. The Ten Commandments are common sense things and one can learn from them without having to believe in God. Common sense is just that, common sense.

Can you please list my contradictions, because I really don't feel I have been. Before I recognized my agnosticism, I was taught to be religious and to learn lessons from the Bible. There are many good lessons to be learned in there, that I won't deny. There are also good lessons to be learned from Aesop's Fables, and a myriad of other books and tales out there. I don't need to believe that the Tortoise and the Hare story is a factual account to learn the lesson from that story. I hope that helped to clear the air.

I don't believe the Bible is the true word of/from God. What's hard to understand about that? I don't believe in the tales from the Bible, certainly not the story of Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, The Burning Bush, etc. I believe them to be finely crafted stories, nothing more. I don't believe that Noah was a 600 year old man, that Jesus fed the masses with few a loaves of bread and a couple of fish. I certainly don't believe that Zeus was real, nor that other mythological tales are real either. Do you believe in the FSM? Ramen!:) No disrespect intended.


If neither side is going to be swayed by the other (despite any "proofs" or the lack thereof), further debate seems pointless to me. JMHO :wink:

But, whatever.... :laugh:

I was more than willing to end the discussion, but since it has been a civil conversation and I was encouraged to continue and answer questions asked of me, I felt it would be appropriate to honestly answer the questions posed.

Thanks for your input too.

I'll get to Tyburn and his response later.

Buzzard
02-10-2010, 11:30 PM
The Flood is an historical fact.

I never said that there weren't or wasn't and flooding back in those times, I say there was no flood that covered the entire planet.


They MENTION the flood...thats not story, that an historical document...Egypt also has a legend of a flood...and the Indus Valley has a burried city off the north west coast of India which hasnt been on dry land since the run off, from the last Ice Age...that would date it prior to any large civilization...unless of course there was a culture lost in a flood....there are many myths about continents, Islands, and the likes dissapearing into the sea.

I don't doubt that there were floods in those days, I doubt that there was one flood that covered the entire planet. I can't recall the depth of the water that was stated to have covered the tallest mountains, I can look that up later so I can have that information if needed.


Myths, you might have from one culture....but when all the ancient cultures retell the same myth...thats going to far...logically there must have been SOME flood.

Logically, there were probably many floods throughout time and will be many more.


btw...It doesnt need to be a world wide flood. Civilization both before and after the flood was concentrated in one area of the globe, flood the entire middle east, between Africa and India...et viole...all the people on the planet perish...it also means that those animals that needed saving would be slightly less in number...the Scriptures dont put a lot of geographical limits on things...it says all the animals...like...that could mean every animal on earth...or it could mean all the animals Humans have come into contact with.

I'd love to read your source material for your statement that Civilization was concentrated in only one area of the globe. Plus, if you are going to make a statement in another language, please at least spell it right.:wink:


if you read the account there are measurements for the Ark of Noah. There is even a full scale reproduction of it in Europe...made by an enthusiast. he followed the measurements laid out in the bible, and the rough schematic for how many levels it should have.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/325099094/828964


Besides...I dont think Noah collected all the animals...I have a feeling that GOD probably provided all the animals.

Just because someone made a vessel using measurements from the Bible doesn't mean much. It isn't a full scale reproduction BTW. How can one be sure it is an accurate version when one has never seen the original?

King James Version.

Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Genesis 6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Genesis 6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

I don't see anywhere in there where it states God provided the animals, though I could see how it could be construed with the wording. It states Noah needed to gather the food for the animals and the people. How did he manage to gather the food for each individual animal, or did he just feed porridge to them all? After the animals were released, how did the Koalas get to Australia and the Pandas to China? Where did they keep the Black Widow spiders and the Fire Ants? How did they capture and contain each species of insect, as there are thousands of different kinds of insects? Where were the wasps kept?


The problem with people like you Buzzard is your focus on a meaningless detail...and it is meaningless...because although an historical account, the whole of the Torah is symbolic on a great number of levels which you wont know about without a significant understanding of ancient hebrew...which carried numerical values for each of its letters, and word orders and the likes...thats why when you read some of the Psalms of David you think wow...but then the little bit at the bottom will say "an acrostic of the Alphabet" which means each line begins with the succeeding letter in the alphabet...one that is AS MUCH of numerical importance, then of literary understanding.

You might understand these little details if you could understand ancient Hebrew :)

You may think details are meaningless, but they are needed if you are trying to prove your case. Even the smallest details are needed and if you can't provide them, that leaves a lot of room for error.

I do have a question for you though. What do you mean by "people like me?" Are you being snotty, or do you mean people that ask questions because they don't just believe because "the Bible says so?" Please clarify that if you could.

Thanks for your participation.

Mark
02-11-2010, 03:06 AM
Buzzard look at this website and tell me if you think this could be the ark.
http://www.detailshere.com/noahsark.htm

Miss Foxy
02-11-2010, 03:14 AM
We want the list Buzzard..:mischievous:

AMJ
02-11-2010, 03:16 AM
This thread has become very entertaining.

NateR
02-11-2010, 03:25 AM
After the animals were released, how did the Koalas get to Australia and the Pandas to China?

Genesis 10:25 (NKJV)
To Eber were born two sons; the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Even after the flood, the earth was one land mass and didn't break up into different continents until several generations later.

Where did they keep the Black Widow spiders and the Fire Ants? How did they capture and contain each species of insect, as there are thousands of different kinds of insects? Where were the wasps kept?


Many insects would have been able to survive outside in the flood conditions. There would have been enough debris and rotting bodies for them to thrive without any help from Noah.

NateR
02-11-2010, 03:52 AM
Do you believe in the FSM? Ramen!:)

:huh:

I'm sure that FSM stands for Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I can't figure out what the "Ramen" is.

Vizion
02-11-2010, 04:31 AM
Genesis 10:25 (NKJV)
To Eber were born two sons; the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Even after the flood, the earth was one land mass and didn't break up into different continents until several generations later. Hmm...the flood would have put pressures on the tectonic plates that could have divided it then. I always thought "pangea" happened during the flood.



Many insects would have been able to survive outside in the flood conditions. There would have been enough debris and rotting bodies for them to thrive without any help from Noah. And on the backs, manes, and beards of the hairy animals both large and small.

Buzzard
02-11-2010, 10:04 AM
Buzzard look at this website and tell me if you think this could be the ark.
http://www.detailshere.com/noahsark.htm

I'll check that out when I have more time to respond. It's late and I should get some sleep.

:huh:

I'm sure that FSM stands for Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I can't figure out what the "Ramen" is.

You are correct NateR. It does stand for Flying Spaghetti Monster. Ramen is how the Pastafarians end their prayers to his Noodly Appendage, like Amen but Ramen.:laugh:

I threw that in to lighten the mood. I'll address your points when I'm not so tired. Thanks for your input, I like the overall tone that this discussion has had. I'd almost bet that you wouldn't have thought I would quote from the Bible. It has now made it out of hiding and is in my living room. I only wish that the text wasn't so small, even with my reading glasses.

Have a great night/morning/day all. BTW, I would never actually make a list of those I consider suck-ups, that too was to keep the mood light. Sorry to disappoint you all, though I could keep the joke going by saying I'll post the list tomorrow each and every following day.

Tyburn
02-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Buzzard look at this website and tell me if you think this could be the ark.
http://www.detailshere.com/noahsark.htm

is that the remains of one they found on mount ararat? :ninja:

Tyburn
02-11-2010, 12:44 PM
Thanks for your participation.
you are welcome :)

rearnakedchoke
02-11-2010, 03:11 PM
We want the list Buzzard..:mischievous:

glad i am not the only one still waiting ... THE LIST BUZZARD!!!!

Silverback
02-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Yes we are all doing the Buzzard thing, waiting for it to get up and walk away or fall over dead, the list man just the list:tongue0011::tongue0011::tongue0011:glad i am not the only one still waiting ... THE LIST BUZZARD!!!!

CAVEMAN
02-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Buzzard, I watched the video and read some of the stories. I have to side with Nate and Mark on this. There is plenty of evidence for a world wide flood and the existence of Noah's ark.

Being you are a skeptic(and there is nothing wrong with that) I would suggest you read the book, "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel. Lee was a skeptic and an atheist until he did the research for this book.

CAVEMAN
02-11-2010, 03:58 PM
When I watched the video, I could only think of this Chapter from Isaiah. The Chaldean's were pagans, astrologers, and stargazers. And here is what the LORD said to them:

Isaiah 47
1Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

2Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers.

3Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

4As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

5Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.

6I was wroth with my people, I have polluted mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke.

7And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.

8Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

9But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.

10For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.

11Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.

12Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.

13Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

14Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

15Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.

Neezar
02-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Pray for the "spiritually homeless".

rearnakedchoke
02-12-2010, 07:57 PM
Pray for the "spiritually homeless".

and THE LIST!!!!!

Buzzard
02-13-2010, 11:50 PM
and THE LIST!!!!!

I told you all, I'll post the list tomorrow.

I still have to check out the Ark site that Mark linked to.

J.B.
02-14-2010, 12:02 AM
I told you all, I'll post the list tomorrow.

I still have to check out the Ark site that Mark linked to.

I forgot about this thread...

However, without going back and reading what I missed, I will take this as a guarantee that we are actually going to see the list.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/6/68/Awesome.svg_copy.png/600px-Awesome.svg_copy.png

Buzzard
03-20-2010, 07:39 AM
Buzzard look at this website and tell me if you think this could be the ark.
http://www.detailshere.com/noahsark.htm

My skeptical side says no, mainly because I don't believe that story. I still need to watch the videos found on that site and the others it directs me to. So far after watching 20 minutes of one video, I still say no.

Interesting read about the site, written by a Christian I believe. Found the site when looking for more information.

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/BoatShaped.html

Bumped because I almost forgot about it.