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Country Breakfast
02-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Despite his status as a talented welterweight prospect, potential alone was not enough to keep Matt Arroyo employed by the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

FiveOuncesOfPain.com has confirmed that the Rob Kahn-trained fighter was released from the promotion soon after his split decision loss to Dan Cramer during last month’s UFC 94 event. The bout served as Cramer’s professional debut.

Arroyo, a jiu-jitsu black belt who gained national notoriety after appearing on the sixth season of The Ultimate Fighter, fell to 0-2 in his last two bouts following the defeat against Cramer. The initial loss of his current two fight losing streak took place this June during the live finale for the seventh season of The Ultimate Fighter.

Facing TUF 7 veteran Matt Brown in a rematch from a Renegade Fighting Championships bout that took place in November of 2006, Arroyo fell to 0-2 lifetime against the Team Jorge Gurgel member following a TKO at 3:40 of round 2.

Arroyo departs the UFC with a 1-2 lifetime record inside of the Octagon with a first round armbar submission victory over John Kolosci from the live finale of TUF 6 also to his credit.

He joins a confirmed list of recent releases by the UFC that includes Nate Mohr, Rich Clementi, Luigi Fioravanti, Eddie Sanchez, Christian Wellisch, Reese Andy, and Derek Downey.

Tyburn
02-15-2009, 07:15 PM
thats shyte. I'm sorry but he hadnt lost three in a row, and since TUF he'd competed thrice and won once.

He should have been allowed his third strike.

hy get rid of Nate Mohr?? I know he lost his last one but prior to that he hadnt competed in a whole year due to injury.

They are looking for ANY excuse to cut fighters...is not even the UFC safe from the Credit Crunch...dont tell me these are legitamate because they arent...Christian Wellisch aswell??

Luigi has been cut?? :huh: are you sure :huh:

It frustrates me that if they arent careful it will be one loss equalls termination of contract. Thats the road they are heading towards. 1 poor performance equals termination also. They still have too big a stable, thats there main problem, and now I reckon they are trying cut backs...I cant think of another good reason. Legitamately All these three guys shouldnt have been cut. One loss doesnt equate to termination particularly after a year out. Two losses in a row dont equate to a termination.

Wellisch...well if you ask me they are still punishing AKA fighters...big suprise. Wellisch is from Jon Fitch camp and he lost...so they dont want him. Lets hope Dana White never needs a lawyer to defend him in a criminal Court..lets hope his prosection never hires Christian niether :laugh: at least he has a different job as I understand it.

Nate Mohr is one of my suckerpunch guys, so I'm pretty pissed about that actually :angry: ...Arroyo I dont care about...I just think the judgement is to harsh.

Clementi and Sanchez I'm not suprised about...Downey..well they might start saying debutees have to win in order to get a contract...and Andy went a while ago...they just didnt want him for some reason. :cry:

VCURamFan
02-15-2009, 09:52 PM
thats shyte. I'm sorry but he hadnt lost three in a row, and since TUF he'd competed thrice and won once.

He should have been allowed his third strike.Ummmm, perhaps you've forgotten his kung fu grip of sarah nether bits? That sounds like strike 3 to me!!!

Why get rid of Nate Mohr?? I know he lost his last one but prior to that he hadnt competed in a whole year due to injury.I think you just answered your own question. With so many fighters in the stable, they can't afford to keep one around that's not producing for them.

Tyburn
02-15-2009, 11:46 PM
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=52276166

Christian Wellisch aint ammused :laugh:

Tyburn
02-15-2009, 11:54 PM
I think you just answered your own question. With so many fighters in the stable, they can't afford to keep one around that's not producing for them.
that was, I think, before he was in the UFC...I'm not sure if he was in it. I was under the impression he just failed his debut...but I could be wrong, I havent been following Suckerpunch for that long and he's not online for me to connect with much.

I just think they deal with their employees in a bad way and one day its gonna bite em on the cheek. :ninja:

btw I suggested to wellisch that he do just what he said. Start up a proper Union. He's a law man...and the UFC just fired him. Sounds like the perfect candidate. Disgruntled employee sets up Union against former employer :laugh:

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 12:26 AM
With so many fighters in the stable, they can't afford to keep one around that's not producing for them.



See, that may be right.. but I don't think so. What does the UFC do for fighters when they are not fighting?

They don't pay for their camps. Health insurance? Isn't that only good during thier fights??

Maybe it's just to keep their numbers down to ensure that all of their fighters get chances???

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 12:29 AM
btw I suggested to wellisch that he do just what he said. Start up a proper Union. He's a law man...and the UFC just fired him. Sounds like the perfect candidate. Disgruntled employee sets up Union against former employer :laugh:


IMO, In the States at least.. the "need" for a union is long since past.

VCURamFan
02-16-2009, 12:49 AM
See, that may be right.. but I don't think so. What does the UFC do for fighters when they are not fighting?

They don't pay for their camps. Health insurance? Isn't that only good during thier fights??

Maybe it's just to keep their numbers down to ensure that all of their fighters get chances???It's about the contracts. If they have all their money committed in contracts to lack luster or injured fighters, then they can't go after new talent.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 12:57 AM
IMO, In the States at least.. the "need" for a union is long since past.
They do need a union. They get treated unfairly and in an incorrect manner.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 01:05 AM
It's about the contracts. If they have all their money committed in contracts to lack luster or injured fighters, then they can't go after new talent.
They dont NEED new tallent at the moment.

There biggest mistake was to flood the stupid ranks with former TUFers who FAILED to make the grade. now they have TUFers all over the place. THATS SAD. That is a BAD mistake. Stephane Bonner for example...he highlighted a card last month...he's a FAILED TUFer...he had no place in the organisation to begin with. The UFC is a laughing stock because it breaks its own rules. TUF winners fight for a contract, and yet half of them get contracts whether they win or lose...and NOW they change the rules which is unfair on the later people involved in the project...but then TUF is no longer about tallent, its about generating pure and unadultorated ratings and advertisement...and the way they do that is by deliberately bringining in fighters who have NO place in the sport let alone in the organisation with the way they represent.

War Machine...Junie Browning...etc

Yet GOOD fighters like Mike Dolce, or Joe Duarte for example...where are they?? No...its absolute and utter bollox and this farse is why Dana White has outlived his position. Sure he did a great job putting it on the map...but now he's in danger of ruining what he's created.

Becareful who you call "lackluster" :angry: thats very rude for a fighter who gets injured and simply needs to take time out to heal. We arent talking Matt Serra popped a vertibrae doing a silly demonstration, or Georges Slipped on Sweat...we're talking a legitamate fighter with plenty of potential, who simply has come back from recovery. He's not a repeat offender, so dont try and say thats an issue.

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 01:22 AM
Not to mention, Frank Mir had an outside of the Octagon injury, he's came back and is now one of the top heavyweights in the world again.

VCURamFan
02-16-2009, 01:26 AM
They dont NEED new tallent at the moment.I whole-heartedly disagree. Look at the MW & HW divisions! They are so shallow that the champ in one has to move up in weight to avoid boredom & the champ in the other lost to the interim champ 2 fights ago!

There biggest mistake was to flood the stupid ranks with former TUFers who FAILED to make the grade. now they have TUFers all over the place. THATS SAD. That is a BAD mistake. Stephane Bonner for example...he highlighted a card last month...he's a FAILED TUFer...he had no place in the organisation to begin with. The UFC is a laughing stock because it breaks its own rules. TUF winners fight for a contract, and yet half of them get contracts whether they win or lose...and NOW they change the rules which is unfair on the later people involved in the project...but then TUF is no longer about tallent, its about generating pure and unadultorated ratings and advertisement...and the way they do that is by deliberately bringining in fighters who have NO place in the sport let alone in the organisation with the way they represent. On a pure skill basis, I completley agree. There are a lot of TUFers who deserve to be let go. The difference is that a lot of them are also fan favorites. Since the business is getting big numbers, that can be achieved by 1) putting on the best fights & 2) putting on the favorite fighters. Dana's going to be hard pressed to drop Stephan since he's half the reason the sport exploded.

Becareful who you call "lackluster" :angry: thats very rude for a fighter who gets injured and simply needs to take time out to heal. We arent talking Matt Serra popped a vertibrae doing a silly demonstration, or Georges Slipped on Sweat...we're talking a legitamate fighter with plenty of potential, who simply has come back from recovery. He's not a repeat offender, so dont try and say thats an issue.When I saw "lackluster" I mean some who doesn't distinguish themselves from the crowd. I recognize the names Wellisch & Mohr, but I'mhard-pressed to put a face to the name without a google search. I'm not saying that they aren't skilled or that they didn't have extenuating circumstances, but them's the breaks.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 01:53 AM
[/I] 1) I whole-heartedly disagree. Look at the MW & HW divisions! They are so shallow that the champ in one has to move up in weight to avoid boredom & the champ in the other lost to the interim champ 2 fights ago!

2) On a pure skill basis, I completley agree. There are a lot of TUFers who deserve to be let go. The difference is that a lot of them are also fan favorites. Since the business is getting big numbers, that can be achieved by 1) putting on the best fights & 2) putting on the favorite fighters. Dana's going to be hard pressed to drop Stephan since he's half the reason the sport exploded.

3) When I saw "lackluster" I mean some who doesn't distinguish themselves from the crowd. I recognize the names Wellisch & Mohr, but I'mhard-pressed to put a face to the name without a google search. I'm not saying that they aren't skilled or that they didn't have extenuating circumstances, but them's the breaks.
1) that wouldnt happen if the UFC werent in such a rush to fast-track people TO the title in the first place! If they stopped playing games and started treating their fighters with respect ALL of their fighters rather then just one or two, they'd have better results. Lesnar should never have been fighting anywhere near the title. Nog should have been fighting Mir for the belt, and Couture should have been stripped.

As for MW. Perhaps they should have let Anderson Silva actually work his way to the title. Then he wouldnt have spent so much time on top with nowt to do. Not that his performance verses Cote was half what he's capable of.

GSP needs to finish a fight in a title defence before he even thinks of fighting anywhere outside of his division, and BJ Penn should stick to what he's good at and leave the big boys alone, grease or no grease.

2) Pro Wrestling has big numbers aswell. Want the sport to end up like that? You dont reward drug users and or cheats...so Bonnar should be dumped in exactly the manner that Sobral was....and the UFC brought in the TUFers now they must deal with the consequences.

3) Perhaps you'll be hearing more of Wellisch when he sets up a Union and stops the UFC running roughshod across other people. As for Mohr...well he might need more then a debutees loss to get recognised. If The UFC arent prepared to let people recover from a single loss, then you'll never get to bloody see his face will you...and that wont be HIS fault.

bradwright
02-16-2009, 02:00 AM
GSP needs to finish a fight in a title defence before he even thinks of fighting anywhere outside of his division,

:huh: i'm pretty sure he finished BJ,

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 02:04 AM
:huh: i'm pretty sure he finished BJ,
okay...lets see him do it without any trace of vaseline.

Sorry...but we cant include that...besides...it wasnt exactly a normal title defense.

:blink:

bradwright
02-16-2009, 02:07 AM
okay...lets see him do it without any trace of vaseline.

Sorry...but we cant include that...besides...it wasnt exactly a normal title defense.

:blink:
he finished Serra,,do you want me to go on?,,

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 02:09 AM
he finished Serra,,do you want me to go on?,,
Serra shouldnt really have been fighting him. :rolleyes:

He didnt finish Jon Fitch. :tongue0011:

bradwright
02-16-2009, 02:12 AM
Serra shouldnt really have been fighting him. :rolleyes:

He didnt finish Jon Fitch. :tongue0011:
he finished Matt,,

oh oh,,did i say that out loud?:Whistle:

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 02:26 AM
They do need a union. They get treated unfairly and in an incorrect manner.


Disagree... on the whole.. they are treated very good.. you don't see up and comers wanting to go to Affliction or somewhere else.. It's UFC. Well if it was so bad for the fighters, then no one would want to go there..

I would like to see some of my favorite fighters takes on that...

Hell.. even Tito is lobbying to get back in the UFC.. but that's cause no one wants him.

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 02:28 AM
[I]
Becareful who you call "lackluster"


All of our favorite fighters have had bad nights... should have won fights.. lackluster fights.. it happens.. breath deep.. stay calm.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
02-16-2009, 08:31 AM
I don't have the same faith and Trust in Unions that you apparently do!

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 09:56 AM
he finished Matt,,

oh oh,,did i say that out loud?:Whistle:
Not in a title defence he didnt :rolleyes:

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 10:00 AM
Disagree... on the whole.. they are treated very good.. you don't see up and comers wanting to go to Affliction or somewhere else.. It's UFC. Well if it was so bad for the fighters, then no one would want to go there..

I would like to see some of my favorite fighters takes on that...

Hell.. even Tito is lobbying to get back in the UFC.. but that's cause no one wants him.
That will eventually change if they keep up their most recent maltreatment.

As for Unions...the reason noone wants one is because they are skeeeeerd that the Union might actually tell the UFC they cant do something. I know one of the things about America I dislike is that across the board most things have been de-unionized. This makes working a littttttttle bit unprotected because who do you have to turn to for help if you are wronged?

I believe that Wal-Mart is now completely de-unionized :unsure-1:

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 01:31 PM
This country is way better off without Unions. All Unions do is bleed companies (reference dock workers and forklift drivers who make $30 an hour, that's bs) and promote the idea that people cannot speak for themselves.

I agree that things should be done better in the UFC without needing to completely form a Union. The fighters could certainly go on strike, then what would Dana do? I'm not big on strikes, but I could certainly understand the fighters, especially those at the bottom, needing better compensation for their fights. Those guys making $3000 a fight are just being wronged.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 02:11 PM
1)This country is way better off without Unions. All Unions do is bleed companies (reference dock workers and forklift drivers who make $30 an hour, that's bs) and promote the idea that people cannot speak for themselves.

2) I agree that things should be done better in the UFC without needing to completely form a Union. The fighters could certainly go on strike, then what would Dana do? I'm not big on strikes, but I could certainly understand the fighters, especially those at the bottom, needing better compensation for their fights.

3) Those guys making $3000 a fight are just being wronged.
1) no its not. De-unionization promotes the idea that your workers can be abused like slaves.. "Cannot speak up for themselves" the sad fact is without a Union they absolutely cant! Why should the UFC pay any notice whatsoever to Mr Mohr for example? Why should they keep him? who can he possibly complain to? He and all those in the UFC have almost no voice at all. A union ensures that promotions like the UFC cant just hire and fire and play politics or treat their employees like cattle!!

2) Wait, thats what he would do. Because it wouldnt take long for the fighters to starve to death or be forced into other jobs. plus you'd need a united front. If ten fight camps went on strike, he'd find replacements. if they all went on strike he'd wait...within a month some of them would be forced back.

3) so I'm waiting for your better views. :huh: What good is it to point out an issue and no suggest an alternative? If not a Union...what? You gonna excercise YOUR voice and write to the UFC...do you think that would change their minds? A Union on the other hand will change their minds because a Union means EMPLOYMENT LAW is protected.

I feel VERY strongly about these sort of issues because I've been wronged in an area that is De-Unionized. I've experienced first hand what big Institutions think they can get away with when noone is watching them. Its criminal, no it actually IS criminal.

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 03:46 PM
1) no its not. De-unionization promotes the idea that your workers can be abused like slaves.. "Cannot speak up for themselves" the sad fact is without a Union they absolutely cant! Why should the UFC pay any notice whatsoever to Mr Mohr for example? Why should they keep him? who can he possibly complain to? He and all those in the UFC have almost no voice at all. A union ensures that promotions like the UFC cant just hire and fire and play politics or treat their employees like cattle!!

2) Wait, thats what he would do. Because it wouldnt take long for the fighters to starve to death or be forced into other jobs. plus you'd need a united front. If ten fight camps went on strike, he'd find replacements. if they all went on strike he'd wait...within a month some of them would be forced back.

3) so I'm waiting for your better views. :huh: What good is it to point out an issue and no suggest an alternative? If not a Union...what? You gonna excercise YOUR voice and write to the UFC...do you think that would change their minds? A Union on the other hand will change their minds because a Union means EMPLOYMENT LAW is protected.

I feel VERY strongly about these sort of issues because I've been wronged in an area that is De-Unionized. I've experienced first hand what big Institutions think they can get away with when noone is watching them. Its criminal, no it actually IS criminal.
1) Why not complain to the source, Mr. White? When I was a teenager and if I had a problem with somebody, I confronted them. I didn't go to their mommy and daddy and ask them to handle the situation for me. A person could simply schedule an appointment to meet with him when he isn't busy. That's just a simple phone call and ask them guy for a few minutes of his time to express concerns, ask questions, etc.

2) If the UFC started bringing in a bunch of bums to head main events, nobody would buy them. It would be the demise of the UFC and the start of another organization. At least, that's how I feel.

3) It's like shopping at Wal-Mart, I don't agree with the way their workers are treated, but I still shop there because it saves me money. As long as the UFC keeps putting on fights that I enjoy watching, I'll keep buying PPV events and watching the shows on Spike. Like I said, fighters should speak up for themselves and go personally to Dana if they have any issues. I'm quite certain that Dana would respect them more if they brought the problems directly to him instead of going to the press or just complaining in radio shows and things like that. If they don't like the way the meeting was handled, they can go and fight elsewhere. Besides, Affliction is paying fighters much more than the UFC.

4) Sorry to hear what happened to you in your past. There are some companies who are quite large, like Wal-Mart, who I feel abuse their power. However, one thing I do know about Dana is he definitely would appreciate a guy who has the balls to confront him about issues and if they don't like the way Dana is handling it, they can leave.

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 04:10 PM
Not to mention, Frank Mir had an outside of the Octagon injury, he's came back and is now one of the top heavyweights in the world again.


Well, Frank was never cut from the UFC due to losing. It would be the same with any champion. "see you when you are healty" type of thing..

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 04:20 PM
As for MW. Perhaps they should have let Anderson Silva actually work his way to the title. Then he wouldnt have spent so much time on top with nowt to do. Not that his performance verses Cote was half what he's capable of.


Dude.. Anderson (and I am not the fan boy) worked for his shot.. he came into the UFC from Pride (which Zuffa owns).. with something like a 15-4 record..was given a tune up fight.. against someone that had a lot of hype (Leban) and TKOed him. made sense to strike while the name was hot..


GSP needs to finish a fight in a title defence before he even thinks of fighting anywhere outside of his division, and BJ Penn should stick to what he's good at and leave the big boys alone, grease or no grease..

No one is really pushing him to fight Anderson.. prolly cause Anderson couldn't cut to WW.. granted.. I would like to see that at a catch weight fight..


2) Pro Wrestling has big numbers aswell. Want the sport to end up like that? You dont reward drug users and or cheats...so Bonnar should be dumped in exactly the manner that Sobral was....and the UFC brought in the TUFers now they must deal with the consequences.


Renato was dumped HARD for his actions in the cage.. Bonner just lost to a "nobody". Granted that Jones is a friend of a friend.. he still hasn't done much.. one on the way up.. (jones) and another on the way down (bonner)


3) Perhaps you'll be hearing more of Wellisch when he sets up a Union and stops the UFC running roughshod across other people. As for Mohr...well he might need more then a debutees loss to get recognised. If The UFC arent prepared to let people recover from a single loss, then you'll never get to bloody see his face will you...and that wont be HIS fault.


Who has gotten cut from a single loss? It seems more to me that they are cut after 2/3 losses.. and really bad preformances...

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 04:27 PM
That will eventually change if they keep up their most recent maltreatment.

What mis-treatment? The cuts? It's not like it's within their (UFCs) rights. I would be willing to bet it's in their contracts what could cause a contact to be voided..


As for Unions...the reason noone wants one is because they are skeeeeerd that the Union might actually tell the UFC they cant do something. :

Well.. Maybe the UFC just says "F you Union.. " A union is not needed. If you think that a Union is the only think that would make changes.. welll.. your.. just.. UNAMERCIAN!!!


I know one of the things about America I dislike is that across the board most things have been de-unionized. This makes working a littttttttle bit unprotected because who do you have to turn to for help if you are wronged?:

No unions and we are doing pretty good... hmmm interesting. Most larger companies and smaller.. protect their workers.. I guess it depends on what you view as "wronged".. We have many labor laws..




I believe that Wal-Mart is now completely de-unionized :unsure-1:

There has never been a wally world union in the states.. and besides.. the workers couldn't afford to pay for it.. and most are too stupid to get their lazy arses to work on TIME.. let alone for a union meeting..

Spiritwalker
02-16-2009, 04:29 PM
1) Why not complain to the source, Mr. White? When I was a teenager and if I had a problem with somebody, I confronted them. I didn't go to their mommy and daddy and ask them to handle the situation for me. A person could simply schedule an appointment to meet with him when he isn't busy. That's just a simple phone call and ask them guy for a few minutes of his time to express concerns, ask questions, etc.

2) If the UFC started bringing in a bunch of bums to head main events, nobody would buy them. It would be the demise of the UFC and the start of another organization. At least, that's how I feel.

3) It's like shopping at Wal-Mart, I don't agree with the way their workers are treated, but I still shop there because it saves me money. As long as the UFC keeps putting on fights that I enjoy watching, I'll keep buying PPV events and watching the shows on Spike. Like I said, fighters should speak up for themselves and go personally to Dana if they have any issues. I'm quite certain that Dana would respect them more if they brought the problems directly to him instead of going to the press or just complaining in radio shows and things like that. If they don't like the way the meeting was handled, they can go and fight elsewhere. Besides, Affliction is paying fighters much more than the UFC.

4) Sorry to hear what happened to you in your past. There are some companies who are quite large, like Wal-Mart, who I feel abuse their power. However, one thing I do know about Dana is he definitely would appreciate a guy who has the balls to confront him about issues and if they don't like the way Dana is handling it, they can leave.


Nicely said!

And besides.. it's a moot point. Prize fighters are mostly considered "contractors". I don't know what the english term would be.

hizo64
02-16-2009, 04:34 PM
Hmm seems I missed an interesting thread... darn it! I felt like arguing with someone!! :tongue0011:

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 05:03 PM
1) Why not complain to the source, Mr. White? When I was a teenager and if I had a problem with somebody, I confronted them. I didn't go to their mommy and daddy and ask them to handle the situation for me. A person could simply schedule an appointment to meet with him when he isn't busy. That's just a simple phone call and ask them guy for a few minutes of his time to express concerns, ask questions, etc.

2) If the UFC started bringing in a bunch of bums to head main events, nobody would buy them. It would be the demise of the UFC and the start of another organization. At least, that's how I feel.

3) It's like shopping at Wal-Mart, I don't agree with the way their workers are treated, but I still shop there because it saves me money. As long as the UFC keeps putting on fights that I enjoy watching, I'll keep buying PPV events and watching the shows on Spike. Like I said, fighters should speak up for themselves and go personally to Dana if they have any issues. I'm quite certain that Dana would respect them more if they brought the problems directly to him instead of going to the press or just complaining in radio shows and things like that. If they don't like the way the meeting was handled, they can go and fight elsewhere. Besides, Affliction is paying fighters much more than the UFC.

4) Sorry to hear what happened to you in your past. There are some companies who are quite large, like Wal-Mart, who I feel abuse their power. However, one thing I do know about Dana is he definitely would appreciate a guy who has the balls to confront him about issues and if they don't like the way Dana is handling it, they can leave.
1) :blink: Because Dana White already knows what he's doing is wrong...what is going to him going to solve...except getting antsy and thus giving him true reason to want rid of you. Dont you see...if he believed you should be in the institution in the first place he wouldnt be sacking you. You need a higher authority to keep him in line. When you get a letter of termination and you cause a scene you only do yourself harm. They arent going to retract it because you sit in their office and say "please" Honnestly... :laugh:

2) It wouldnt last long enough. Thats the issue. How long canm a fighter last without any money...or before some camp decides to go back to work? You cant ALL strike indeffinately, and Mr White knows that...and he's made it so you cant just pull out and fight for someone else. You in essence, CANT resign. Unless you want to go to Court...but remember that would be on top of having no income. Verses a million dollar company.

Tell me...if the UFC vanished tommorow...how would you get to watch events on your TV. most local shows arent on the networks. Fans would have exactly the same reaction, avoid one or two shows...then they would return unless they could find an equally accessable, regular and preferably cheaper ulternative.

I guarentee you Mr White can wait longer then the fighters and fans, because he only needs a minimal proportion of them to reconsider. Can you guarentee that fans actually wouldnt pay to see bum fights? Do you see boycotts with fans over the UFC at present when they treat people badly? People are all full of principle until they have to act on it...then suddenly..well the what the UFC are doing is terribly sad and unfair...BUT...

3) I dont really think Dana White cares do you? In any other organisation going to the press would be exactly LIKE going to a Union, because of public accountability...but go to the press as an athlete...and all you get is people posting an opinion poll in response.

4) Do you understand the term Constructive Dismissal? It wasnt Wal-Mart...it was The Church of England. It was a civil case...which means the Jury and Judge is the prosecution. You need to convince the people who are trying to remove you they are wrong. Thing is...they wouldnt be trying to get rid of you if they thought you were right would they :rolleyes: The only way to win is if the Civil Case involves a third party. Mine did not. Or to undermine the integrity of the Prosecution. I did that. I watched them like a hawk and when they broke protocol, I pounced. They still found me guilty, but they couldnt punish me because I had rendered them, as individuals, untrustworthy and unable to follow the rules concerning such things. I had people who wanted me to go public, a family member of mine is in Parliament, another has links with publishers. I refused. Why? because I recognised the disgrace it would bring, not just to the person...but to their office, and that Historic Office is bigger then the both of us, existed before we arrived, continues after we've departed. I couldnt shame the place I loved the most despite how they wronged me...and there was no Union to help me. I didnt even know my legal rights. I had strong allies who were able to get me a social drink with some off duty law people who could tell me what rights I had and how I could exercise them...or try to.

Course the time has past...this summer will mark the fifth year since that saga. I've moved on. But I have experience on the receiving end of some of this stuff. I know what Sean Sherk feels like when wrongly accused, when he has to face a Civil Case which is nigh on impossible for the defendant to win. I know how it feels to be mistreated by a large institution, thats headed by politicians and business men who, trust me, do not care about your view, do not care if you dissagree with them, dont want to listen to your complaints, and will not be moved by your innocence because THEY put you in that position in the first place. I do not believe in Slavery, and that IS a kind of slavery. Unions may be a pain in the arse...but not to the employees...just to the companines...which...on the whole deserve it. :mellow:

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 05:14 PM
1)Well.. Maybe the UFC just says "F you Union.. " A union is not needed. If you think that a Union is the only think that would make changes.. welll.. your.. just.. UNAMERCIAN!!!



2) No unions and we are doing pretty good... hmmm interesting. Most larger companies and smaller.. protect their workers.. I guess it depends on what you view as "wronged".. We have many labor laws..




There has never been a wally world union in the states.. and besides.. the workers couldn't afford to pay for it.. and most are too stupid to get their lazy arses to work on TIME.. let alone for a union meeting..
1) I'm English. :rolleyes: ...and the UFC wouldnt dare do that to a Union, because Unions have LEGAL backings. They are like Moral Enforcers for Mass Employees

2) As If...do the UFC protect their employees???

3) :scared0011: do you want to rephrase that with the knowledge of my current employer :huh:

You dont even know what a Union is do you...you dont need everyone to turn in for "Union" meetings :laugh: you'd need one person to act as a Representative of a Union...which would probably have its own staff aswell. Trust me...like it or not, the UFC wont go on much further before some fighters get anoyed enough to start creating one.

Even Americans want to ensure their individual rights are protected from big institutions. Mark my words, it will happen if the UFC doesnt start treating better and paying more :ninja:

Neezar
02-16-2009, 05:27 PM
1) I'm English. :rolleyes: ...and the UFC wouldnt dare do that to a Union, because Unions have LEGAL backings. They are like Moral Enforcers for Mass Employees

2) As If...do the UFC protect their employees???

3) :scared0011: do you want to rephrase that with the knowledge of my current employer :huh:

You dont even know what a Union is do you...you dont need everyone to turn in for "Union" meetings :laugh: you'd need one person to act as a Representative of a Union...which would probably have its own staff aswell. Trust me...like it or not, the UFC wont go on much further before some fighters get anoyed enough to start creating one.

Even Americans want to ensure their individual rights are protected from big institutions. Mark my words, it will happen if the UFC doesnt start treating better and paying more :ninja:

Americans have a long history with unions. Why don't you google it? In most cases unions do more harm than good here in America.

Neezar
02-16-2009, 05:29 PM
1) I'm English.

Even Americans want to ensure their individual rights are protected from big institutions. Mark my words, it will happen if the UFC doesnt start treating better and paying more :ninja:

1) That explains everything. :laugh:

Mark my words, the worst thing that could happen to fighters is to attempt to form a union.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Americans have a long history with unions. Why don't you google it? In most cases unions do more harm than good here in America.
really :huh:

why dont you expound on that :)

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 06:16 PM
1) That explains everything. :laugh:


it comes in handy as a great excuse :laugh:

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 06:40 PM
As an example, labor unions are one of the many reasons why the American auto industry is suffering. Some of those dock workers, the guys who drive forklifts for a living, make $30-$50 an hour. That's hardly a skilled labor to warrant such a high earning. With tens of thousands of employees paid like that, it's no wonder they can't make a profit.

hizo64
02-16-2009, 07:02 PM
I have to agree, I hate Unions, they ran all the mines out of business for making such lucrative demands. Also our fire departments here are union and it took them and their uunion two years to get a .20 cent raise out of the city. Unions are ridiculous...

KENTUCKYREDBONE
02-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Unions originally had a good idea but now they are just a money grabbing arm of the Democrat party!

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 08:23 PM
As an example, labor unions are one of the many reasons why the American auto industry is suffering. Some of those dock workers, the guys who drive forklifts for a living, make $30-$50 an hour. That's hardly a skilled labor to warrant such a high earning. With tens of thousands of employees paid like that, it's no wonder they can't make a profit.
I wish our Unions were like yours :laugh: I might get paid more...I know forklift truck drivers on less the 11k STIRLING per year!

thats LESS then 24K Dollars Per Year BEFORE Tax :angry:

They get paid in a whole year what a lower top tear fighter gets paid for one fight :unsure-1:

...and you thought you were underpaid :sad:

:cry:

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 08:57 PM
I wish our Unions were like yours :laugh: I might get paid more...I know forklift truck drivers on less the 11k STIRLING per year!

thats LESS then 24K Dollars Per Year BEFORE Tax :angry:

They get paid in a whole year what a lower top tear fighter gets paid for one fight :unsure-1:

...and you thought you were underpaid :sad:

:cry:
Well in the past they were necessary, but in today's world, there's plenty of laws and regulations that take care of it. I really don't know anything about Britain, but it sounds like a much different world over here.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Well in the past they were necessary, but in today's world, there's plenty of laws and regulations that take care of it. I really don't know anything about Britain, but it sounds like a much different world over here.
:laugh:

We are worlds apart. Thats what a lot of people on BOTH sides forget. Americans sometimes cant understand why English people are so reserved and so stiff upper lipped. They see it as an expression of distaste or insincerity. Its not. It just looks that way because England doesnt have the same cultural confidence emphasis. Its normal for some English to be less enthusiastic visibly. It doesnt mean we hate you :laugh:

But the English are just overwhelemed by the American Bravado that wont leave them alone. American shout, are blunt to the point of being rude and insensative....and many dont understand the confidence emphasis. They dont realize its perfectly normal for Americans to fly their flags, be patriotic, loud and gun-ho. So some English think they are arrogant and to prideful.

And yet the East and Orient sees just ONE Western World, when there is perhaps Three if not Four major Cultures. There is the American Culture of the Combined 49 states (we'll exclude Hawaii because they are...different) There is the British Culture (which includes Canada and Austrailia) and there is the European Perspective (which includes Northern and Med countries, it also includes a fair ammount of Latin America aswell!) Then I would say there is the Slavic Viewpoint, (that accounts for the Baltic, the Eastern Bloc and Russia) The Eastern Viewpoint (which covers much of Africa, the Middle East, parts of South East Europe, and Asia) and then the Oriental (which covers China, India and Oceania) After that you have Tribal Cultures, that covers some of South America, some of Africa, and The Ring of Fire. I think Hawaiians are far closer in culture to their Samoan and Polynesian roots, then there American roots...thus I thing that 50th State is caught in Limbo...a little like the French-Canadians

hahahahaha Obviously generalizations...but the point is. England and America are categorically NOT the same culture

hizo64
02-16-2009, 10:29 PM
Im from a small town and I feel totally worlds apart when I visit a huge city lol does that count?

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 11:03 PM
Im from a small town and I feel totally worlds apart when I visit a huge city lol does that count?
Well, I'm from a town of 3,000 and since 2004, I live the 6th most populated city in the U.S. Doesn't feel much different, except there's more to do and there's traffic, that sucks.

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 11:05 PM
Im from a small town and I feel totally worlds apart when I visit a huge city lol does that count?
:laugh: absolutely! :laugh:

rockdawg21
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
hahahahaha Obviously generalizations...but the point is. England and America are categorically NOT the same culture
Not in the least, see, in America,
we don't smoke fags, we hate fags,
nothing here is "bloody", it's just "s*i*ty",
we don't drive on carriageways, he drive on highways,
we don't get pissed, we get drunk, then piss on ourselves,
we don't play draughts, we play checkers,
we don't eat bangers, just sausages,
furthermore,
we don't have National Insurance Numbers, we have Social Security Numbers :tongue0011:

I don't know if that's any better, but there it is, lol

Tyburn
02-16-2009, 11:13 PM
Not in the least, see, in America,
we don't smoke fags, we hate fags,
nothing here is "bloody", it's just "s*i*ty",
we don't drive on carriageways, he drive on highways,
we don't get pissed, we get drunk, then piss on ourselves,
we don't play draughts, we play checkers,
we don't eat bangers, just sausages,
furthermore,
we don't have National Insurance Numbers, we have Social Security Numbers :tongue0011:

I don't know if that's any better, but there it is, lol
:laugh: :laugh:

slightly more accurate possibly :w00t:

Spiritwalker
02-17-2009, 02:06 AM
hahahahaha Obviously generalizations...but the point is. England and America are categorically NOT the same culture


Agreed!