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KevinD
01-07-2010, 02:39 PM
I have struggled with this question for a few years now. As some of you know my brother took his life a few years ago and it has made me rethink my thoughts about a spot in heaven for someone who committed suicide.

I would appreciate your thoughts and scripture references. Thanks.

billwilliams70
01-07-2010, 02:56 PM
I can offer nothing really substantial for you, so I will link you to the GotQuestions discussion on the subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/suicide-Bible-Christian.html

Particular attention must be paid to the portion where it talks about what the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide, was your brother a Christian?

Hope it helps.

Later.

Vizion
01-07-2010, 02:58 PM
It depends. A saved person can committ suicide if they are so depressed they have no rationale to speak of.

NateR
01-07-2010, 03:14 PM
It depends. A saved person can committ suicide if they are so depressed they have no rationale to speak of.

That's also not counting mental illnesses or drug-induced delusions. Not even taking into account the fact that sometime people just do incredibly stupid things, Christian or not.

So, theoretically, if a born-again Christian commits suicide for any reason, does he lose his salvation and go to Hell? My opinion would be a definitive NO. If you can't lose your salvation by committing murder, then you can't lose it by suicide.

However, realistically, depending on the circumstances, I think it's highly unlikely that a true, born-again Christian would ever reach the point of suicide. 99.99% of the time, I would say that people who commit suicide were probably never really Christians to begin with.

But there is simply not enough guidance given in the Bible about this specific sin to be 100% sure. Back in the ancient days, when everyone was just struggling to stay alive, the notion that someone would willfully take their own life because they were depressed would be almost inconceivable.

Also, to clarify, I'm talking about suicide as a purely selfish act, not instances where a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his buddies or a police officer jumps in front of a gun to save the life of an innocent person.

Tyburn
01-07-2010, 05:18 PM
I have struggled with this question for a few years now. As some of you know my brother took his life a few years ago and it has made me rethink my thoughts about a spot in heaven for someone who committed suicide.

I would appreciate your thoughts and scripture references. Thanks.

in truth, we dont know.

All I can offer you is theories that you've no doubt seen me write on here before, theological theories, that may, or may not be correct. There doesnt seem to be any reliable scripture that even mentions it to the best of my knowledge.

I'm so sorry for your loss :unsure-1:

KevinD
01-08-2010, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the thoughts. It is an incredibly hard topic to deal with especially when the emotional side enters in because a loved one is involved.
My brother was a born-again Christian. The change in his life was very visible. I do think that towards the end he was not walking as closely with God as he was. There were some very sad circumstances that happened that to my knowledge made things "seem" unbearable for him. I understand people commenting on it being a selfish act, but it is so much more than that. It goes far more deeper.
I guess there are some mysteries on this earth we cannot answer and must rely on God to one day reveal them to us if we are to know.

Miss Foxy
01-08-2010, 03:40 PM
I have struggled with this question for a few years now. As some of you know my brother took his life a few years ago and it has made me rethink my thoughts about a spot in heaven for someone who committed suicide.

I would appreciate your thoughts and scripture references. Thanks.

I am sorry about your loss.
When I was 15 my ex-boyfriend took his life RIP Kristopher Wayne Lindsey...
It is so hard and I always feel lost when thinking of where he ended up..:sad: Thanks for your post this will help me as well.. Take care..Lost but not forgotten..

Blade
01-08-2010, 11:30 PM
Unless you're Hitler, lol, I think people who commit suicide still go to heaven. People who kill themselves are not well people. They are hurt, damaged or mentally ill people, maybe a combination of all three, and God would not turn His back on people who have suffered in this way. I've got no Bible quotes to back this up, that's not my style, it's just the way I feel.

que
01-08-2010, 11:39 PM
Unless you're Hitler, lol, I think people who commit suicide still go to heaven. People who kill themselves are not well people. They are hurt, damaged or mentally ill people, maybe a combination of all three, and God would not turn His back on people who have suffered in this way. I've got no Bible quotes to back this up, that's not my style, it's just the way I feel.

well said

Vizion
01-09-2010, 12:00 AM
Unless you're Hitler, lol, I think people who commit suicide still go to heaven. People who kill themselves are not well people. They are hurt, damaged or mentally ill people, maybe a combination of all three, and God would not turn His back on people who have suffered in this way. I've got no Bible quotes to back this up, that's not my style, it's just the way I feel.
Here's a Bible verse for you!

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What you "feel" means nothing. Whether the person who committed suicide was SAVED is ALL that matters. You have absolutely zero influence in whether they go to Heaven - not trying to insult you, just saying. People struggle, whether you kill yourself or die of natural causes we ALL have deep struggles within. God OWES us nothing. God can change you, He can do anything. But God does not change FOR YOU. We play be HIS RULE BOOK, not some set of rules we make ourselves.

Blade
01-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Here's a Bible verse for you!

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What you "feel" means nothing. Whether the person who committed suicide was SAVED is ALL that matters. You have absolutely zero influence in whether they go to Heaven - not trying to insult you, just saying. People struggle, whether you kill yourself or die of natural causes we ALL have deep struggles within. God OWES us nothing. God can change you, He can do anything. But God does not change FOR YOU. We play be HIS RULE BOOK, not some set of rules we make ourselves.

Awww you hurt my feelings :cry: Oh wait...nah you didn't. Sorry but it's gonna take more than a bit of glorified reported speech to change my feelings. Not trying to insult you, just saying.

adamt
01-09-2010, 12:23 AM
suicide is self murder, so anything said about suicide should go for murder as well....

do murderers automatically go to hell?

Vizion
01-09-2010, 12:37 AM
Awww you hurt my feelings :cry: Oh wait...nah you didn't. Sorry but it's gonna take more than a bit of glorified reported speech to change my feelings. Not trying to insult you, just saying.
Don't be on the defensive!

Glorified speech? What are you on about??? Attack the argument, do not resort to attacking the arguer personally.

What have I said that is wrong?

explain.

Blade
01-09-2010, 12:41 AM
Don't be on the defensive!

Glorified speech? What are you on about??? Attack the argument, do not resort to attacking the arguer personally.

What have I said that is wrong?

explain.

lol I wasn't attacking you personally, the 'glorified reported speech' referred to the quote you posted that is basically someone else saying what Jesus may have said.

Vizion
01-09-2010, 12:44 AM
lol I wasn't attacking you personally, the 'glorified reported speech' referred to the quote you posted that is basically someone else saying what Jesus may have said.
Good, I can't stand wimps.

Now, about that verse. So now I know you are a non-believer. Yet, you believe in God, yes?

Where do you gather these "feelings" from? You say you don't "feel" God would send a person such as this to hell, from where do you derive such an intimate understanding of the nature of God?

NateR
01-09-2010, 01:32 AM
do murderers automatically go to hell?

Well that begs the question, is a born-again Christian capable of committing murder? I would say most definitely yes. I can think of plenty of nightmare scenarios that would push any man over the edge within seconds and before he had the chance to consider the consequences of his actions.

So would that Christian lose his salvation after that? I don't think so and I say this because of Psalm 51:11-12
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

Psalm 51 is a prayer of repentance that was written by David after he committed adultery with Bathsheba, tried to cover it up by murdering Uriah, and only admitted his sin when he was confronted face-to-face by Nathan the prophet.

It was over 9 months between David adultery and being publicly called out by Nathan. So you would think, if he could lose his salvation, that he would have lost it immediately after sleeping with Bathsheba. However, in verse 11, he pleads for GOD to not cast him from His presence and to not take His Holy Spirit. If David had lost his salvation, then shouldn't he be asking to have the Holy Spirit returned, instead of pleading that it not be taken?

(Now keep in mind that in the OT days, there was no permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because Christ had not come yet.)

However, verse 12 is the clincher. After he commits these sins and has spent almost a year covering them up, does David ask GOD to restore his salvation? No! He asks GOD to restore the joy of his salvation. Even after he had committed these horrible crimes, David still understood that he was saved no matter what. He had just lost the joy of his salvation, not the actual salvation.

A good allegory would be two brothers who are angry with each other (for whatever reason) and are holding a grudge against each other that lasts for months or even years. During that time, there is no joy in their relationship because whatever the offense was has never been dealt with. However, that doesn't change the fact that they are still brothers. The relationship still exists, but they can't enjoy it because of the grudge.

So are we to believe that our Heavenly relationship with GOD is weaker and less permanent than our earthly relationships with each other?