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View Full Version : More Guns Equal More Crime? Not so fast says FBI


Mac
12-24-2009, 01:49 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1223/More-guns-equal-more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows.



Atlanta
The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.

Add to that the fact that many experts had predicted higher crime rates as the US grinds through a difficult recession, and the discrepancy has advocates on both sides of the Second Amendment debate rushing to their ramparts.

After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

Concurrently, the FBI reports that gun sales – especially of assault-style rifles and handguns, two main targets of gun-control groups – are up at least 12 percent nationally since the election of President Obama, a dramatic run on guns prompted in part by so-far-unwarranted fears that Democrats in Congress and the White House will curtail gun rights and carve apart the Second Amendment.

Pro-gun groups jumped at the FBI report, saying it disproves a long-running theory posited by gun-control groups and many in the mainstream media that gun ownership spawns crime and violence. “Anti-gunners have lost another one of their baseless arguments,” Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, told the Examiner's Dave Workman.

Some gun-control groups have long sought to establish gun ownership as a health issue, which would expose purchasers to the kind of regulation now imposed on prescription drugs and alcohol. That view embodies the idea that mere exposure to guns makes people more violent.

But more pragmatically, groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence have mostly targeted illegal sales and gun-show loopholes as the primary problem in America’s gun culture. They say such loopholes and lax enforcement allow violent criminals to get their hands on used, stolen, and inexpensive guns. “The guns that cause the worst problems in this country are not selling for very high prices,” Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm has said.

No correlation, researchers say
As advocates on both sides keep score, what’s the rest of America to think as they weigh the relative crime risks – and statistics – in their own neighborhoods?

The debate over whether guns spur or deter crime has been under way for decades. So far, research has come out with, in essence, a net-zero correlation between gun sales and crime rates. More likely factors for the crime rate decline have to do with Americans hunkering down, spending less time out on the town with cash in their pockets and more time at home with the porch lights on, experts say. So-called "smart policing" that focuses specifically on repeat offenders and troubled areas could also be playing a role, as could extended unemployment benefits that staved off desperation.

“We can absolutely draw a fact-based conclusion about [whether there’s a correlation between declining crime rates and increasing gun ownership], and the answer is no,” says David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control in New York. “There are very consistent findings that the acquisition and obtaining of carry permits by ordinary law-abiding people has either no or very little impact on the crime rate.”

He finds more evidence in the FBI’s new report, which shows crimes declining not only across a variety of violent and nonviolent crime classifications, but also in both gun-resistant and gun-friendly corners of the country.

“When you’re seeing declines [in violent crime] both in cities like Atlanta, which is in a relatively gun-friendly state, and in places like New York City, where it is essentially impossible for ordinary folks to acquire and carry especially handguns, then it’s not the guns that are driving the [statistics],” Mr. Kennedy says.

A possible deterrent effect?
But one prominent gun rights researcher, Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee, leaves the door open to the idea that news of booming gun sales could have a deterrent effect on violent criminals.

“It’s possible that criminals hear about lots of people buying guns, and then you can see a plausible mechanism, that conceivably could have produced a reduction in murder,” says Professor Kleck. “It’s all a matter of perception, not reality, for prospective murderers."

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-25-2009, 11:31 PM
I've thought for years that more guns = less crime! But I've run across some delusional people who refuse to believe it cause they are afraid of the big bad gun!

NateR
12-26-2009, 04:02 AM
I've thought for years that more guns = less crime!

The evidence would seem to support that theory:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/opinion/16reynolds.html?_r=1

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-26-2009, 10:49 AM
The evidence would seem to support that theory:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/opinion/16reynolds.html?_r=1





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 16, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
A Rifle in Every Pot
By GLENN REYNOLDS
Knoxville, Tenn.

IT’S a phenomenon that gives the term “gun control” a whole new meaning: community ordinances that encourage citizens to own guns.

Last month, Greenleaf, Idaho, adopted Ordinance 208, calling for its citizens to own guns and keep them ready in their homes in case of emergency. It’s not a response to high crime rates. As The Associated Press reported, “Greenleaf doesn’t really have crime ... the most violent offense reported in the past two years was a fist fight.” Rather, it’s a statement about preparedness in the event of an emergency, and an effort to promote a culture of self-reliance.

And it may not be a bad idea. While pro-gun laws like the one in Greenleaf are mostly symbolic, to the extent that they actually make a difference, it is likely to be a positive one.

Greenleaf is following in the footsteps of Kennesaw, Ga., which in 1982 passed a mandatory gun ownership law in response to a handgun ban passed in Morton Grove, Ill. Kennesaw’s crime dropped sharply, while Morton Grove’s did not.

To some degree, this is rational. Criminals, unsurprisingly, would rather break into a house where they aren’t at risk of being shot. As David Kopel noted in a 2001 article in The Arizona Law Review, burglars report that they try to avoid homes where armed residents are likely to be present. We see this phenomenon internationally, too, with the United States having a lower proportion of “hot” burglaries — break-ins where the burglars know the home to be occupied — than countries with restrictive gun laws.

Likewise, in the event of disasters that leave law enforcement overwhelmed, armed citizens can play an important role in stanching crime. Armed neighborhood watches deterred looting in parts of Houston and New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Precisely because an armed populace can serve as an effective backup for law enforcement, the ownership of firearms was widely mandated during Colonial times, and the second Congress passed a statute in 1792 requiring adult male citizens to own guns.

The twin purposes of self and community defense may very well lie behind the Second Amendment’s language encompassing both the importance of a well-regulated militia and the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. As the constitutional and criminal law scholar Don Kates has noted in the journal Constitutional Commentary, thinkers at the time when the Constitution was written drew no real distinction between resisting burglars, foreign invaders or domestic tyrants: All were wrongdoers that good citizens had the right, and the duty, to oppose with force.

Greenleaf’s ordinance is consistent with this approach. But it may also serve another purpose.

Experts don’t think the Kennesaw ordinance, which has never actually been enforced, did much to change gun ownership rates among Kennesaw residents. And, given that Greenleaf’s mayor has estimated that 80 percent of the town’s residents already own guns, the new ordinance can’t make all that much of a difference. But criminals are likely to suspect that towns with laws like these on the books will be unsympathetic to malefactors in general, and to conclude that they will do better elsewhere.

To the extent that’s true, we’re likely to see other communities adopting similar laws so that criminals won’t see them as attractive alternatives. The result may be a different kind of “gun control.”

Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee, is the author of the blog Instapundit and of “An Army of Davids: How Markets and Technology are Empowering Ordinary People to Take on Big Government, Big Media and Other Goliaths.”

Spiritwalker
12-26-2009, 01:42 PM
To me it's pretty simple....

My guns will not be used in a crime.. "More guns but no additional crimes" = lesser crime precentage while higher gun ownership precentage

I carry always (honestly 80%) - a criminal tries to rob me.. or breaks into my home = one less criminal!

atomdanger
12-26-2009, 05:40 PM
To me it's pretty simple....

My guns will not be used in a crime.. "More guns but no additional crimes" = lesser crime precentage while higher gun ownership precentage

I carry always (honestly 80%) - a criminal tries to rob me.. or breaks into my home = one less criminal!

Until your home gets robbed when you're not there.

But yeah, most guys aren't out getting guns legitimately,
the bulk of them are either brought from Mexico or bought on the street and acquired from burglary.

Spiritwalker
12-26-2009, 09:35 PM
Until your home gets robbed when you're not there.

Then my dogs have a feast... Goo think I am looking for another pitbull my shepard/chow mix could do damage, but not eat that much..I also have an alarm system.. but that's more to alert the cops and me should I not be home.


But yeah, most guys aren't out getting guns legitimately,
the bulk of them are either brought from Mexico or bought on the street and acquired from burglary.


That's where the problem is. Not with legal gun owners.. but criminals..

And I don't know about you, but every one I know has bought their guns legally.

atomdanger
12-26-2009, 11:10 PM
That's where the problem is. Not with legal gun owners.. but criminals..

And I don't know about you, but every one I know has bought their guns legally.

Yeah, the problem is probably 90 percent criminals.

Most people I know bought their guns legally.

NateR
12-26-2009, 11:54 PM
Precisely because an armed populace can serve as an effective backup for law enforcement, the ownership of firearms was widely mandated during Colonial times, and the second Congress passed a statute in 1792 requiring adult male citizens to own guns.


The only thing about that article that I disagree with is this paragraph, but only because they have it backwards. What it should say is that law enforcement can serve as an effective backup for an armed populace.

Tyburn
12-27-2009, 12:13 AM
I dont think Firearms make more crimes, but I do think Firearms create more deaths in crime.

Lets face it, what is the easiest method of killing someone? you shoot them? no? its going to take less time (and so less chance of being stopped) it easier (takes less skill) you can kill from a fair distance (and thus, safer)

So if you were to carry out a violent crime, whereupon you planned on, or had to kill someone...are you more likely to be successful with, or without a gun?

The answer, is logically, WITH.

Now, it would be interesting to compare the deaths of guncrime, with the deaths of knife crime...and in a Military position, the use of explosives

I suspect Explosives probably win in a military situation above firearms, but I suspect firearms beat Knives.

So I dont think they create, or particularly promote crime...but they would make a criminals life more easy...and would also be of great benefit to a suicidal :mellow:

Tyburn
12-27-2009, 12:17 AM
you could also look at firearms as a deterent to crime I suppose.

Are you more or less likely to attack someone if you know they are armed...but of course the difficulty is, if you are armed as well...then it negates the deterent. then its just who you think is a better shot I suppose :laugh:

I have almost never seen a real life firearm. I saw a blunderbuss once behind glass at a Museum. I saw a few behind glass at Litchfield Wal-Mart in 2007...MAC tells me I was sharing a car with some assult rifle the same year...but I didnt see it.

I saw a couple of The British Transport Police with Submachine Guns in Waterloo Station...and once I saw a little pistol thing...when I went to a take-away and this plainclothes special opporations person decided he too was a tad peckish...that freaked me out to be honnest. :laugh:

You dont even expect to see a police person with a firearm...so when he came in wearing a holster around his waist I was a bit like....ooooookkkkkaaaaay

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-28-2009, 12:26 AM
Most criminals want easy prey! I find it very strange that anybody has never seen a gun except for a Museum! Where I live everybody has at least seen one at Walmart. Its also extremely unusual to find anybody as old as 15 that has not fired a gun at least once!

MattHughesRocks
12-28-2009, 12:29 AM
More thugs = more crime!

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Most criminals want easy prey! I find it very strange that anybody has never seen a gun except for a Museum! Where I live everybody has at least seen one at Walmart. Its also extremely unusual to find anybody as old as 15 that has not fired a gun at least once!

Wal-Mart in England, for obvious reasons, do not stock or sell Firearms.

The majority of English people born since the baby boom have probably never even seen a firearm much less "fired a gun" the earliest of those boomers are now in their mid-late 50s :laugh:

Obviously anyone who has served in the Military, or possibly at some level of Government or Civil Service, or those who are Octogenarians or above will almost undoubtedly have seen a firearm...in the latter case...those who fired the guns probably never came home :sad:

Play The Man
12-28-2009, 12:41 AM
Wal-Mart in England, for obvious reasons, do not stock or sell Firearms.

The majority of English people born since the baby boom have probably never even seen a firearm much less "fired a gun" the earliest of those boomers are now in their mid-late 50s :laugh:

Obviously anyone who has served in the Military, or possibly at some level of Government or Civil Service, or those who are Octogenarians or above will almost undoubtedly have seen a firearm...in the latter case...those who fired the guns probably never came home :sad:

You should go to a firing range during "American Dreams" tour III.:fighting0023:

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 01:09 AM
You should go to a firing range during "American Dreams" tour III.:fighting0023:

Why :huh:

If I decide I like it...I cant take it with me can I :laugh:

I'll only end up accidently killing someone, or myself :laugh:

Play The Man
12-28-2009, 01:14 AM
Why :huh:

If I decide I like it...I cant take it with me can I :laugh:

I'll only end up accidently killing someone, or myself :laugh:

I suspect that one day Tyburn will jump the pond and become an American.:Whistle:

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 01:26 AM
I suspect that one day Tyburn will jump the pond and become an American.:Whistle:

One can but hope :ashamed:

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 01:37 AM
I suspect that one day Tyburn will jump the pond and become an American.:Whistle:



I don't know about that... he would freak out for years at seeing guns on cops belts.. Rifles at wallyworld...

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 01:56 AM
I don't know about that... he would freak out for years at seeing guns on cops belts.. Rifles at wallyworld...

I have to say...I do dislike elements of your law enforcement system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-28-2009, 08:14 AM
Years ago we ran out of Gas in Hazard Kentucky. It was a cop who saved me a second walk down the hill and back up by giving me a ride! While there are a few smart Alec's out their we also have some decent ones who know that their duty is to protect and serve!

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 11:14 AM
Years ago we ran out of Gas in Hazard Kentucky. It was a cop who saved me a second walk down the hill and back up by giving me a ride! While there are a few smart Alec's out their we also have some decent ones who know that their duty is to protect and serve!

I have been to Hazard.. man.. that was a tough town.. me and a co-worker were passing through.. and these two 10-12 year olds were fighting.. one kid saw us coming and slung the other into the street...

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 11:21 AM
I have to say...I do dislike elements of your law enforcement system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo


And I say Rodney King got what he deserved...

I have been around cops for years and I wanted to be one.. cops are put through hell pretty much every day.. just by putting on the uniform they earn they respect that many refuse to give them...

Sure there are some cops that shouldn't be cops.. but that can be said about any job/career.. whatever..

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 11:42 AM
Years ago we ran out of Gas in Hazard Kentucky. It was a cop who saved me a second walk down the hill and back up by giving me a ride! While there are a few smart Alec's out their we also have some decent ones who know that their duty is to protect and serve!
In my case the Officer did nothing wrong. She couldnt well ignore a complaint from the General Public...as she explained, she had to come out and talk to me, even if it was obvious that I wasnt anything but a tourist.

Imagine if she had not done...and I had been planning to break into someones house?

I mean I truely understand what she was doing. But you have to understand that this was not the first time I had been stopped for taking pictures when there is no law against taking pictures unless its of some Military Instillation..the time before it had been some overdressed Security Guard who thought it prudent to speak to me inside a shopping centre :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FajMEvq5rqw it was in Richmond :ninja:

I was...to be fair, feeling a little like...picked on :mellow:

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 12:22 PM
I was...to be fair, feeling a little like...picked on :mellow:


Ya know Dave.. I bet you get that feeling alot...

just saying..

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Ya know Dave.. I bet you get that feeling alot...

just saying..

Not usually.

But when one had never come into contact with police, and then travels alone to a foreign country and keeps getting stopped but has committed no crime.

Well..do you blame me for being...weary :mellow:

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 12:53 PM
Not usually.

But when one had never come into contact with police, and then travels alone to a foreign country and keeps getting stopped but has committed no crime.

Well..do you blame me for being...weary :mellow:


No. Just sensetive and self center.


I traveled to another country last year and ended up with an automatic rifle pointed at my face, they were speaking another language and I was only catching 3 words or so. Scared the crap out of me.. but given the circumstances.. I understood and went on...

You look real closely.. you can see the driver look right at me.. and if you listen to the end.. you will hear my instructor say something...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo6TSi7LdFg

County Mike
12-28-2009, 01:10 PM
Not usually.

But when one had never come into contact with police, and then travels alone to a foreign country and keeps getting stopped but has committed no crime.

Well..do you blame me for being...weary :mellow:

Honestly, I would rather have some people feel a little harrassed and know that the police are checking up on any suspicions, even if they turn out to be unwarranted. The alternative, is for the police to dismiss their suspicions and that would lead to fewer crimes being interrupted. If I have to be inconvenienced for a few minutes due to a policy that could ultimately protect people, I'm OK with that.

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Honestly, I would rather have some people feel a little harrassed and know that the police are checking up on any suspicions, even if they turn out to be unwarranted. The alternative, is for the police to dismiss their suspicions and that would lead to fewer crimes being interrupted. If I have to be inconvenienced for a few minutes due to a policy that could ultimately protect people, I'm OK with that.



Agreed.

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 02:08 PM
Honestly, I would rather have some people feel a little harrassed and know that the police are checking up on any suspicions, even if they turn out to be unwarranted. The alternative, is for the police to dismiss their suspicions and that would lead to fewer crimes being interrupted. If I have to be inconvenienced for a few minutes due to a policy that could ultimately protect people, I'm OK with that.

Really? and yet you dont want to give information to your government so they can do the same. When they do it, you talk about your rights to...basically privacy. :laugh: you insist THEY mind their own business...perhaps because they dont walk around with guns...I dont know. :ninja:

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 02:13 PM
Really? and yet you dont want to give information to your government so they can do the same. When they do it, you talk about your rights to...basically privacy. :laugh: you insist THEY mind their own business...perhaps because they dont walk around with guns...I dont know. :ninja:



Nope you don't know.. but that's ok...

Personal Privacy and asking questions about "what are you doing taking pictures of that building".. and then giving a snotty answer about it.. are two totally different things..

County Mike
12-28-2009, 02:30 PM
Really? and yet you dont want to give information to your government so they can do the same. When they do it, you talk about your rights to...basically privacy. :laugh: you insist THEY mind their own business...perhaps because they dont walk around with guns...I dont know. :ninja:

I didn't complain about giving my info to purchase a gun. I complained about all the extra hoops I have to jump through to get the license. I don't even mind being fingerprinted to get my gun purchase ID. I just hated that it all takes so much time and so many trips to various places.

Play The Man
12-28-2009, 05:38 PM
I didn't complain about giving my info to purchase a gun. I complained about all the extra hoops I have to jump through to get the license. I don't even mind being fingerprinted to get my gun purchase ID. I just hated that it all takes so much time and so many trips to various places.

The hoops are on purpose. They are not just trying to screen for criminals. They are trying to intimidate law-abiding citizens from owning a firearm.

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 07:12 PM
Nope you don't know.. but that's ok...

Personal Privacy and asking questions about "what are you doing taking pictures of that building".. and then giving a snotty answer about it.. are two totally different things..

Really? Is there a law against taking pictures of any buildings? (besides...it was a picture of a road actually...not any building) The answer to that is...not unless either there is a sign up saying "no pictures" OR its a Military Building...in which case fair enough.

The Street I took a picture of had no signs, and no Military Buildings (I was in Bettendorf no Rock Island Arsenal :rolleyes:

As Far as I'm concerned whatever I do within the law is my own business..no :huh: and FYI...I didnt give her a snotty answer at all. I was fully forth coming...I even offered to show her the pictures :w00t:

BUT I do find it hypercritical when Americans complain that the Government violates their rights when looking at sensative information, sometimes to prevent crime....and yet its perfectly acceptable for a Law Enforcement Officer to start asking you serious questions about where you have been, where you are going, why you chose the route you did, who you talked to etc

Because somehow that isnt a violation of your rights.

Bear in mind...I think your concept of "rights" detached from the Government is foolish to a certain degree anyway...I am simply saying, I cant understand why its one rule for Government and another for Law Enforcement.

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 07:27 PM
I didn't complain about giving my info to purchase a gun. I complained about all the extra hoops I have to jump through to get the license. I don't even mind being fingerprinted to get my gun purchase ID. I just hated that it all takes so much time and so many trips to various places.

And I fully understood that the Officer was only doing her duty and job. I just hated that it was an embarrisment and an awkward situation for me, and that, I then felt actively threatened by your police.

In England the Police are a sign of help, they are a sign of comfort. They will aid you if support is needed.

Now in America I didnt feel comforted by the Police at all. I felt like they were watching me, I felt like everytime I saw a Police car there was the likelihood they would stop and ask me questions that would make me feel like I had done something wrong. People say she was just being nice when she offered me a lift back to the Hotel in the police car...and at first I didnt want to say no..because it made me look like I was being difficult. But Why would I want to tern up to a Hotel in a police car? WTF would people have thought if I got out of a police car?? They would think I was a criminal :mellow: or at the very least had done something wrong...also...I didnt know for sure...but I didnt think she was alone in the car...She was the only one who I saw..but when the car first pulled past me into this side road ahead...I thought she had a male partner with her also. Now it was bad enough that she had a firearm...I didnt want to be sitting next to some male cop with a revolver in the back of a police car or something... :unsure-1:

Do you understand the difference?

Some of that might just have been circumstance...I had a situation with one which put me on edge. But I was also highly unnerved by her being armed. I felt at a distinct disadvantage...I was very uncomfortable...I didnt like her giving my passport number over a radio to GOD knows who :unsure-1: She might have just been doing her job...but I was really unhappy...and when I walked home, I could have sworne she kept driving past...but I didnt look at the road to see...she freaked me out the next day also...because there I was outside Champions Gym waiting for a taxi (specifically so I didnt have to walk through that suberb at the same time the day after...even though I had every bloody right to walk down that street, and every bloody right to stop and take another picture should I so desire...but it wouldnt have been prudent) and guess who comes round the corner and is waving at me from a police car :blink:

:laugh:THE SAME OFFICER :laugh:

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 07:45 PM
The hoops are on purpose. They are not just trying to screen for criminals. They are trying to intimidate law-abiding citizens from owning a firearm.



Well I don't feel intimidated in the slightest.. and should I feel the need to not get another gun permit.. I will just by a shotgun.. a hacksaw.. and ..ermm never mind..:Whistle:

Twinsmama
12-28-2009, 07:50 PM
I just bought my husband a new pistol for Christmas. We both like shooting almost any kind of gun. (I'm a wimp I'll only shoot a 30-06 or bigger if I'm shooting at a deer! you don't feel it kick then!) I don't think me having a gun impacts the world one way or another. I'd like to think I'm that important but I doubt it.


(Also spirit I'm glad to know your pits that aren't aggressive protect your house...wait that doesn't make sense. :laugh:)

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 07:51 PM
Really? Is there a law against taking pictures of any buildings? (besides...it was a picture of a road actually...not any building) The answer to that is...not unless either there is a sign up saying "no pictures" OR its a Military Building...in which case fair enough.

Most.. no law.. none at all.. but that doesn't mean the cops can't ask you a question or three...


As Far as I'm concerned whatever I do within the law is my own business..no :huh: and FYI...I didnt give her a snotty answer at all. I was fully forth coming...I even offered to show her the pictures :w00t:


Depending on what your doing.. is is.. but again.. nothing wrong asking "what's going on"..

and BTW dave.. Your British.. your snotty..


BUT I do find it hypercritical when Americans complain that the Government violates their rights when looking at sensative information, sometimes to prevent crime....and yet its perfectly acceptable for a Law Enforcement Officer to start asking you serious questions about where you have been, where you are going, why you chose the route you did, who you talked to etc


Define sensitive information..


Because somehow that isnt a violation of your rights.


Depending .. it isn't

Bear in mind...I think your concept of "rights" detached from the Government is foolish to a certain degree anyway...I am simply saying, I cant understand why its one rule for Government and another for Law Enforcement.

one rule for Government and another for Law Enforcement

Can you be a little more clear on that.. my foolish Amercian brain has trouble digesting what you are saying...

Bear in mind.. I just may think your concept of "rights" is foolish as well..

Spiritwalker
12-28-2009, 07:53 PM
(Also spirit I'm glad to know your pits that aren't aggressive protect your house...wait that doesn't make sense. :laugh:)


My friend died last year.... bummer....

but he would bark like hell.. and would "evil eye" new people in the house...

I have no doubt he would have chomped anyone that broke in.

Can't wait to get another.. but my heart isn't behind it yet...

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 08:10 PM
2) and BTW dave.. Your British.. your snotty..



3) one rule for Government and another for Law Enforcement

Can you be a little more clear on that.. my foolish Amercian brain has trouble digesting what you are saying...



2) I think you might find my Faux American Accent far more offending :ninja::laugh:

3) Your Government is a necc Evil, whenever it seeks to gain information about you for your protection, you tell the world that the Government is not their to look after you and that you can look after yourself just fine. You say that their inquest into information is simply so they can gain control over you, that would lead to Tyranny, and that would lead to Civil War.

BUT

Your Police are allowed to be Armed to the teeth, they may stop you and ask questions at anytime, sometimes questions that dont even really have anything to do with them or the issue they are investigating. They record it all, process you through a radio into some computer one presumes...and thats fine.

Personally, I think you should give information to both, BUT I dont think that the Police should really bother you unless you've done something wrong or you need their help. I believe the Government should protect us from big issues. I believe that is part of their duty to the people. We ellected them to Govern...we didnt Ellect them to sit with a lot of perks and do nothing.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-29-2009, 12:44 AM
Really? and yet you dont want to give information to your government so they can do the same. When they do it, you talk about your rights to...basically privacy. :laugh: you insist THEY mind their own business...perhaps because they dont walk around with guns...I dont know. :ninja:

You really need to get over your fear of the big bad gun! It's a tool made of moving parts! Do you fear cars the way you obviously fear guns? I really get the feeling that the gun part is what scares and bothers you the most!

timmyja
12-29-2009, 01:14 AM
From my experience of having grown up in Chicago and moving here to Virginia, I would have to say there is FAR less crime where I live now as opposed to where I grew up, and I strongly believe that goes hand in hand with our gun laws. If you ask people here to see there "FOID" card they'll laugh at you, but on the other hand they could probably show you their brand new stainless Smith or Ruger.

Spiritwalker
12-29-2009, 01:36 AM
And I fully understood that the Officer was only doing her duty and job. I just hated that it was an embarrisment and an awkward situation for me, and that, I then felt actively threatened by your police.

How were you actively threatened?? Did she touch you? Cuff you? Put her hand on you?

Let me guess....
Lady cop walks up..."Hey/Excuse me.. what are you doing???"
Tyburn.. "Taking pictures."
Lady Cop "Pictures huh?? Any reason?? I mean most people don't take pictures of "po-dunk" here..."
Tyburn.. "What does it matter??"
Lady Cop.. "It matters cause I am asking you"
Tyburn.. "I can take pictures if I want.."

see.. snotty....

Was it night.... was there any important buildings around??
Cool landmarks? strippers.. what ..what was so special.. if there was any security risk.. then they were doing their job.. if there was nothing special.. "just a road" as you say... then asking "what's up" is valid also.

Don't be so self centered..

In England the Police are a sign of help, they are a sign of comfort. They will aid you if support is needed.

Same they do here...They may even shoot someone that is trying to hurt you...

Now in America I didnt feel comforted by the Police at all. I felt like they were watching me, I felt like everytime I saw a Police car there was the likelihood they would stop and ask me questions that would make me feel like I had done something wrong.

They were probably watching you after you pissed off the cop.. or were just plain rude...

People say she was just being nice when she offered me a lift back to the Hotel in the police car...and at first I didnt want to say no..because it made me look like I was being difficult.

Wow.. offered a ride back to the hotel.... Man.. good thing she wasn't like threatening you... a ride in a police car... That would have been a cool story to take back home... What a rude cop... offering a ride to a visiting tourist...

But Why would I want to tern up to a Hotel in a police car? WTF would people have thought if I got out of a police car?? They would think I was a criminal :mellow: or at the very least had done something wrong...

To much self importance.. people wouldn't care...


also...I didnt know for sure...but I didnt think she was alone in the car...She was the only one who I saw..but when the car first pulled past me into this side road ahead...

It's called backup.. She was probably alone.. or else there may not have been another car pull in... If this was such a small town.. they prolly don't have many cops.. then again.. maybe you were the highlight of their night...

I thought she had a male partner with her also. Now it was bad enough that she had a firearm...I didnt want to be sitting next to some male cop with a revolver in the back of a police car or something... :unsure-1:

prolly wasn't a revolver.. most likely a semi-auto... Guess what.. they also prolly had shotguns mounted to the dash....

Do you understand the difference?

better than you I belive..

Some of that might just have been circumstance...I had a situation with one which put me on edge. But I was also highly unnerved by her being armed. I felt at a distinct disadvantage...I was very uncomfortable...I didnt

Well.. you are too self centered and paranoid..And in this country.. being a cop that is not armed.. is like being a mall cop..


like her giving my passport number over a radio to GOD knows who

Big secret Dave... She gave it to her dispatcher.. who was prolly checking your visa.. to make sure it was valid and such.. ... But you should have taken the opportunity to Mouth Off and tell her to read your passport.. like you said that you wanted to.... Force her to read it... THAT would have been fun to hear about...

:unsure-1: She might have just been doing her job...

Ya think????

but I was really unhappy

Cause you were checked out by the cops.. man.. you couldn't even look at it as an "adventure"...

...and when I walked home,

Weren't you offered a ride?

I could have sworne she kept driving past...but I didnt look at the road to see...

You would swear that she kept driving past.. but you wouldn't look...kinda sad there...

she freaked me out the next day also...because there I was outside Champions Gym waiting for a taxi (specifically so I didnt have to walk through that suberb at the same time the day after...even though I had every bloody right to walk down that street, and every bloody right to stop and take another picture should I so desire...but it wouldnt have been prudent) and guess who comes round the corner and is waving at me from a police car :blink:

:laugh:THE SAME OFFICER :laugh:


So you are in the same area.. around the same time...and you see the same cop... go figure..... And you see to think she is "stalking you"??
Yeah.. WAY to self centered

Spiritwalker
12-29-2009, 01:58 AM
3) Your Government is a necc Evil, whenever it seeks to gain information about you for your protection, you tell the world that the Government is not their to look after you and that you can look after yourself just fine. You say that their inquest into information is simply so they can gain control over you, that would lead to Tyranny, and that would lead to Civil War.

My government isn't evil.. has things to improve on.. but not "evil"

and the rest of your statement makes no sense... at least not to me...

The police will ask quesitons about people they find suspicious.. for some reason.. the government has different bits of info on different people for different reasons.. You think yours doesn't??? Or your cops don't "transmit" Info on people they question???


Your Police are allowed to be Armed to the teeth, they may stop you and ask questions at anytime, sometimes questions that dont even really have anything to do with them or the issue they are investigating. They record it all, process you through a radio into some computer one presumes...and thats fine.


Carrying a .40 is hardly "armed to the teeth"

If they are investigating "odd behavior".. that's fine for them to ask questions..
And you figure all of that from one interaction... And you tink your cops do nothing different???

Personally, I think you should give information to both, BUT I dont think that the Police should really bother you unless you've done something wrong or you need their help.

Guess what...depending on how a person is acting.. normally dictates how they act..

I believe the Government should protect us from big issues. I believe that is part of their duty to the people.

Big and small


We ellected them to Govern...we didnt Ellect them to sit with a lot of perks and do nothing.

Kinda like your Queen?

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 11:51 AM
You really need to get over your fear of the big bad gun! It's a tool made of moving parts! Do you fear cars the way you obviously fear guns? I really get the feeling that the gun part is what scares and bothers you the most!

Cars have a function that dont involve death. What do you think the whole idea of a Firearm is? what function does it serve? its purpose is to kill. Thats what it was made for, if you hunt animals, you are still killing them.

The problem I have is that its not a "tool" at all. its a weapon. Its not a case of in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon (like a car) its that the object itself has no other function...even if you only shoot tin cans or clay pigeons. Its still a weapon.

Do you see me walking around with a Sword strapped to my waist :huh::mellow:

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 12:16 PM
1) How were you actively threatened?? Did she touch you? Cuff you? Put her hand on you?

2) Let me guess....
Lady cop walks up..."Hey/Excuse me.. what are you doing???"
Tyburn.. "Taking pictures."
Lady Cop "Pictures huh?? Any reason?? I mean most people don't take pictures of "po-dunk" here..."
Tyburn.. "What does it matter??"
Lady Cop.. "It matters cause I am asking you"
Tyburn.. "I can take pictures if I want.."

see.. snotty....

3) Was it night.... was there any important buildings around??
Cool landmarks? strippers.. what ..what was so special.. if there was any security risk.. then they were doing their job.. if there was nothing special.. "just a road" as you say... then asking "what's up" is valid also.

Don't be so self centered..


4) They were probably watching you after you pissed off the cop.. or were just plain rude...



5) Wow.. offered a ride back to the hotel.... Man.. good thing she wasn't like threatening you... a ride in a police car... That would have been a cool story to take back home... What a rude cop... offering a ride to a visiting tourist...

6) prolly wasn't a revolver.. most likely a semi-auto... Guess what.. they also prolly had shotguns mounted to the dash....


7) Well.. you are too self centered and paranoid..And in this country.. being a cop that is not armed.. is like being a mall cop..

8) Big secret Dave... She gave it to her dispatcher.. who was prolly checking your visa.. to make sure it was valid and such.. ... But you should have taken the opportunity to Mouth Off and tell her to read your passport.. like you said that you wanted to.... Force her to read it... THAT would have been fun to hear about...

9) So you are in the same area.. around the same time...and you see the same cop... go figure..... And you see to think she is "stalking you"??
Yeah.. WAY to self centered

1) I had some armed woman ask me what I was doing as if I'd done something wrong

2) No. She actually first said was a carrying any Identification, so I said yes and I showed her my passport that I was carrying in my little bag under my shirt. Then whilst she was looking at it she asked if I had a camera...well..that was a foolish question since I had my camera bag strapped around my shoulder. So I told her of course I did and "why is their a problem" and she said that she'd had a complaint from someone in the suberb saying I was taking lots of pictures of houses. So I told her that I took a single picture of the road, it was actually an incline in the road and it looked really pretty. I told her that I could show it to her if she wanted because it was all digital...but she didnt want to see it. So then she asked me what I was doing in America, and I said I was on a great big trip visiting different places and the likes. So she asked me how come I was in the middle of this area of park at dusk. I told her I'd was walking back from Champions gym to my Hotel.

So then she asked why I had taken this particular route.

I was like...well I bought a map, and I just followed it from a-b. So she went on about how a different route would have been quicker. I explained to her, AGAIN, that I was a tourist, I'd never been to Bettendorf before, and I was simply following a path from a-b. So by this time she had ascertained where my hotel was, and she told me after she'd processed my details I could probably go. She kept repeating that their had been a complaint as if she were waiting for an appology, but I never gave one..I dont need to be sorry for stoping and taking a single picture of a road. Then she started reading out all my passport details into this walkie-talkie radio thing...and then she asked me if I wanted to be taken back to the Hotel...and I said, actually I was going to walk because I planned on stopping off at Cumberland Mall on the way home.

That was pretty much it.

3) it was dusk. We were in the middle of open grass land. Near Duck Creek it was an area of pretty much nothing. I was on my own in a Foreign Country worried that I might be in serious trouble :unsure-1:

4) I was not rude at all.

5) Criminals travel in the backs of Police cars. If it had happened I'd have never ever told anyone out of sheer embarissment. I couldnt live it down. I was not a Criminal, I had not broken any of your laws. I was not about to turn up to a Hotel in the back of a marked police car.

6) I am not an expert in firearms. All I knew is that it was a handgun, and if she had one, he would have one also. I didnt fancy sitting next to some strange man in the back of a marked police car carrying a firearm of any type.

7) I told you, I met one of them also :laugh:

8) you dont need a Visa for the United States, you either need an ESTA number (which I had but the US Customs Official didnt seem to understand what it was) or some little card you fill out for free on the plane. You dont pay for a Visa...and besides, if you did, you wouldnt need to check on a cmputer because the Visa would be inside the passport itself.

9) NO I didnt go to the same place around the same time. I called a cab from Champions Direct to AVOID doing that and going near the same area again. This time SHE came right outside Champions itself :mellow:

County Mike
12-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Now in America I didnt feel comforted by the Police at all. I felt like they were watching me, I felt like everytime I saw a Police car there was the likelihood they would stop and ask me questions that would make me feel like I had done something wrong.
Sounds like you're just paranoid.

when I walked home, I could have sworne she kept driving past...but I didnt look at the road to see
More paranoia.

she freaked me out the next day also...because there I was outside Champions Gym waiting for a taxi ... and guess who comes round the corner and is waving at me from a police car :blink:

:laugh:THE SAME OFFICER :laugh:

Maybe she liked you.

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 12:27 PM
1) My government isn't evil.. has things to improve on.. but not "evil"

and the rest of your statement makes no sense... at least not to me...

2) The police will ask quesitons about people they find suspicious.. for some reason.. the government has different bits of info on different people for different reasons.. You think yours doesn't??? Or your cops don't "transmit" Info on people they question???



3) Carrying a .40 is hardly "armed to the teeth"

4) If they are investigating "odd behavior".. that's fine for them to ask questions..

5) And you figure all of that from one interaction... And you tink your cops do nothing different???



Kinda like your Queen?

1) I've heard plenty on hear tell me your Government is a necc Evil

2) of course ours does. How else can it do its job :huh: Our Police take a dim view of Curtain Twitichers, because waisting police time is an offense here.

3) that depends on your perspective doesnt it.

4) what is "odd" about a tourist taking a single photograph? Does that sound like Odd behaviour to you :huh:

6) there was a time when the Queen Governed. The reason she does less then that now is because of the Parliamentarians. Its not her fault, its to do with something called The English Civil War...and the terms for the Restoration of the Monarchy...and more importantly, what they did after the first Roman Catholic Monarch post the Restoration. The Religion was a big thing due to the Reformation which happened just slightly before the Civil War.

But I doubt you would understand

5) I have never had anything to do with any Police here, because I stay out of Trouble. The only interaction I have ever had is when I had to either coordinate with them on some big event in Saint Paul's (and usually I was just a number in a group) or when they came to the University to interview me at my request after I had been attacked the second time (the first attack was not reported)

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-29-2009, 12:56 PM
Cars have a function that dont involve death. What do you think the whole idea of a Firearm is? what function does it serve? its purpose is to kill. Thats what it was made for, if you hunt animals, you are still killing them.

The problem I have is that its not a "tool" at all. its a weapon. Its not a case of in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon (like a car) its that the object itself has no other function...even if you only shoot tin cans or clay pigeons. Its still a weapon.

Do you see me walking around with a Sword strapped to my waist :huh::mellow:

A weapon is a tool! A gun can be used for plinking which is fun.
A gun can be used for hunting which not only is enjoyable and a healthy exercise but if your successful can provide more and a different food!
A gun can also be used for self defense!
However the original reason for the 2A is to keep the Government somewhat in check!

Now a car is a tool that is used primarily for transportation but is sometimes viewed as art work as well! On a side note some Guns have so much fancy engraving that they are also considered art by their collectors!
A car can also be used to kill with!
A hammer is a tool mostly used for driving nails! I'm kinda surprised that the left hasn't declared driving nails a violent act. It can also be used to pull nails. A hammer can also be used as a weapon!
A Knife is another Tool that is sometimes art work! A knife is mostly used to cut things! Like at work we use box cutters to cut the tape on boxes so its easier to stock the product.
A Knife is also used in the kitchen alot to cut food with!
Then a Knife can also be used as a weapon! Myself I have carried a Pocket Knife on a regular basis ever since 7th or 8th grade! Its handy for so many things and I'm so used to having one with me I don't hardly feel dressed without one!

Now as for the Lady cop waving! Sounds like She was being Friendly! Either She was a nice Friendly sort or She was interested in you! Maybe She was hoping to take you home with her who knows! I think you should have got a picture of her so we can see whether or not She's good looking! :Whistle:

Crisco
12-29-2009, 04:26 PM
Hey Dave....


You remember a little thing called 9-11?

Every police officer has to be more dilligent regarding tourists and natives.

Taking Random pictures is cause for concern for all she knows you are checking the area out for a robbery or some kind of bomb.



Relax dude. And are all British like you when it comes to guns? Are they are simply terrified by them? It would explain why you let your government take them from you or perhaps it exaplins why you guys are scared. They shot you with their propaganda gun in order to take yours.

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 05:43 PM
A weapon is a tool! A gun can be used for plinking which is fun.
A gun can be used for hunting which not only is enjoyable and a healthy exercise but if your successful can provide more and a different food!
A gun can also be used for self defense!
However the original reason for the 2A is to keep the Government somewhat in check!

Now a car is a tool that is used primarily for transportation but is sometimes viewed as art work as well! On a side note some Guns have so much fancy engraving that they are also considered art by their collectors!
A car can also be used to kill with!
A hammer is a tool mostly used for driving nails! I'm kinda surprised that the left hasn't declared driving nails a violent act. It can also be used to pull nails. A hammer can also be used as a weapon!
A Knife is another Tool that is sometimes art work! A knife is mostly used to cut things! Like at work we use box cutters to cut the tape on boxes so its easier to stock the product.
A Knife is also used in the kitchen alot to cut food with!
Then a Knife can also be used as a weapon! Myself I have carried a Pocket Knife on a regular basis ever since 7th or 8th grade! Its handy for so many things and I'm so used to having one with me I don't hardly feel dressed without one!

Now as for the Lady cop waving! Sounds like She was being Friendly! Either She was a nice Friendly sort or She was interested in you! Maybe She was hoping to take you home with her who knows! I think you should have got a picture of her so we can see whether or not She's good looking! :Whistle:

The point is. a firearm is MADE with the purpose of inflicting injury and or death, a car is not, a hammer is not...a Knife well that depends on what type of knife, but they at least do have a function which isnt about harm

We are not supposed to carry Knives, but then again it depends what sort of Knife it is. Peope going to the store often have stanley knives or safety knives so they can use them in their job...they dont usually come in with a Gerber of something though...that would be considered Illegal :laugh:

Yes...I think the day after the Lady was just being friendly. Actually it was in some ways nice because then my last meeting with her was not one of trouble so to speak. But it caught me off guard because I wasnt expecting to see her again, and if I did I wouldnt have expected her to remember me :ashamed:

You almost certainly would have considered her rather aesthetically pleaseing I would have thought. Quite small and dark, of good proportion for her height, quite a stark voice though, and really piercing eyes. :laugh: Looked good in the Uniform :wink:

Robertboxerboy
12-29-2009, 05:48 PM
everyone on here knows what is in bettendorf.

But go up to any normal person and ask them what is in bettendorf, Iowa. They will probably reply, "where?". So why would somebody from a foriegn country be in bettendorf? If i were any other person i would think it is odd too.

and the whole gun thing. Its one of our amendments (spelling?). We all as citizens have the right to have them in america. my dad works in a factory and has a permit to carry his hand gun where ever he like. Which he does.

and the cop car. if you were to get out of a cop car, people over here really wouldnt care, escpeccially if you just got out, not handcuffed, shut the door and they drove away. i don't think people would think your a criminal.

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Maybe she liked you.

:laugh:I think it was more curiosity. Remember, I am not American, I do not look American, I do not sound American, I am not built like an American, and I dont move like an American. I'm...Different.

Alot of people wanted to either look at me, or engage me when they heard me speak on Amtrak, becuase of my accent. You've probably seen so many of my videos that I begin to sound sort of natural to you...but actually my accent is quite different even from alot of the British dielects

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 05:50 PM
everyone on here knows what is in bettendorf.

But go up to any normal person and ask them what is in bettendorf, Iowa. They will probably reply, "where?". So why would somebody from a foriegn country be in bettendorf? If i were any other person i would think it is odd too.

.

I suppose its not the imediately obvious Tourist Destination. I hadnt thought of it like that :ninja:

Spiritwalker
12-29-2009, 07:35 PM
:laugh:I think it was more curiosity. Remember, I am not American, I do not look American, I do not sound American, I am not built like an American, and I dont move like an American. I'm...Different.

Is this a newsflash to anyone???


Alot of people wanted to either look at me, or engage me when they heard me speak on Amtrak, becuase of my accent. You've probably seen so many of my videos that I begin to sound sort of natural to you...but actually my accent is quite different even from alot of the British dielects

Man.. you really are self centered....

Tyburn
12-29-2009, 07:45 PM
Is this a newsflash to anyone???



Man.. you really are self centered....

Now your just being Rude :sad:

Spiritwalker
12-29-2009, 08:51 PM
Now your just being Rude :sad:

Not really...just a statement of the obvious I guess...considering the majority of the members here reside in the US, don't use Video Blogs.. haven't been to another country...

Your Different... and you revel in it. One of the things I always tell my kids is that "If everyone were the same, it sure would be a boring place".

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-30-2009, 12:48 AM
On a side note it ain't that unusual for a cop in small town USA to give someone a lift if they think its needed! Usually if its just one person they ride in the front!
By the way I'm curious as to what us Americans are built like and move like? I ain't jumping you on that cause I don't think it was meant in a bad way but I am curious!

Tyburn
12-30-2009, 11:45 AM
On a side note it ain't that unusual for a cop in small town USA to give someone a lift if they think its needed! Usually if its just one person they ride in the front!
By the way I'm curious as to what us Americans are built like and move like? I ain't jumping you on that cause I don't think it was meant in a bad way but I am curious!

Its difficult to describe....and it is really only a terrible stereotype. I can usually spot middle aged Americans from a mile off in store, just because they look American...I cant put my finger on exactly what that is, I just know it when I see it.

No I didnt mean them in a bad way...I'm more often then not accused of "positive Racism" towards Americans :laugh:

County Mike
12-30-2009, 11:54 AM
I'm more often then not accused of "positive Racism" towards Americans :laugh:

Americans are a race? :huh:

Tyburn
12-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Americans are a race? :huh:

well they are a mixture of many ethnic groups...but you can still discriminate against them on the basis of the country they come from

My friends think I favour Americans over other nationalities :ninja:

County Mike
12-30-2009, 12:44 PM
I was just teasing. I notice something different in the appearance of Europeans, including the English, as well. Something in the jaw line maybe. Not sure how to describe it exactly.

Tyburn
12-30-2009, 05:14 PM
I was just teasing. I notice something different in the appearance of Europeans, including the English, as well. Something in the jaw line maybe. Not sure how to describe it exactly.

I can spot Europeans aswell. I think your right, its mainly build possibly Skeletal Structure, and skin tone also...I think with Americans it might also be the way they carry themselves...of course in store its like you cant hear the English Mother talking to her Little Child...she's probably too engrosed in her list, and the Child is either getting in the way or just sorta sitting in the buggy making noises.

But the American Women never stop talking. They actually seem to narrate what they do. They will come down an Aisle and say out loud "Oh, Oranges...Do we need Oranges? I think we do" then they will turn to the Child "do you wanna go pick yourself a nice Orange, make sure its a nice one, thats right, and put it in the Trolley..."oh...Asparagus...do you like Asparagus" :laugh: They really do though. They have a confidence that means they dont care who hears them...they dont even think about it...and of course they will always stop and say Hello. One of the Women ALWAYS asks me "hows the Budgie doin?" :happydancing:

You can take an American out of America, but you cant take America out of the American...it doesnt matter where on Earth they tred. Thats just who and what they are. I like it, because I cant think its been easy for alot of them living in this Country...particularly in Harrogate because odds on if they are Americans they come from Menwith Hill. So they are the families of US Airforce personnel. There was a large Anti-American sentiment drifiting around in the last decade...and...lets just say...if I had been living in America, and the British did something that public opinion felt was wrong or damaging to the country...I wouldnt feel very comfortable...because...Well The amount of times I've heard one of our Staff go "*Sigh* Americans" and walk off shaking their heads...as if the Americans behind them cant hear or see...its just bloody rude...particularly when usually they havent even approached that member of staff, they've just talked with an Accent...and thats enough to bring out a tut in some of the older Staff...it bugs me, and I really kick off about it. Perhaps its why all the Americans always come to ME :laugh: The saddest thing about it...is you would probably NEVER be treated like that in the US. They might think it...but they wouldnt say nor show it, because their Hospitality Levels are so high that it would be grossly rude, and they would be terribly ashamed of themselves...If it were founded, then it wouldnt matter so much...but half of them dont even understand what America did with the War on Terror..they arent interested in politics, they dont really care whether we're at war or not...they dont discuss it...they just almost seem to frown upon the innocent Americans that come into the store. Its often irrational, its often blind, its often unprovoked.

You know...this is coming from a country who treated its Service men and women so badly...that the Government had to make it a LAW that it was a criminal offense to be rude to a man in Uniform. WTF...You had Hotels saying they wouldnt put returning soldiers up...because they dont allow members of the Military to stay with them...you had Ticket inspectors on Trains refusing to honnour the Military passes that give a slight rail reduction, when the Soldiers are coming home from war. Its unforgivable...do you know what I mean...if thats how we treat our own...I suppose I should not be suprised that there is a tendancy in some parts to be openly rude to Americans

Sorry for the rant...I dont say it often...but there are things I really hate about my country. We used to be like you...and now look at us. Its...Embarrising :unsure-1:

Rev
12-30-2009, 07:48 PM
I was just teasing. I notice something different in the appearance of Europeans, including the English, as well. Something in the jaw line maybe. Not sure how to describe it exactly.

Well for the Brittish its actually just above the jaw line. Its the teeth, they all have jacked up grills man! I swear they all look like they have been chewing on logging chains or something. I always thought that was a joke until my buddy had an exchange student who looked like he was chewing on a rope when his dad jurked it out.

so You are close but its just above the jaw line.:wink::laugh:
Just kidding!! but I bet that got someone mad.lol:frantics::tongue0011::happydancing:

Tyburn
12-30-2009, 08:53 PM
Well for the Brittish its actually just above the jaw line. Its the teeth, they all have jacked up grills man! I swear they all look like they have been chewing on logging chains or something. I always thought that was a joke until my buddy had an exchange student who looked like he was chewing on a rope when his dad jurked it out.

so You are close but its just above the jaw line.:wink::laugh:
Just kidding!! but I bet that got someone mad.lol:frantics::tongue0011::happydancing:

its because Dentistry isnt always on the National Health Service :laugh:

County Mike
12-30-2009, 09:20 PM
Yeah. Heaven forbid they spend any of their own money for nice teeth.

Toothbrush, paste and floss don't cost THAT much!

KENTUCKYREDBONE
12-31-2009, 08:48 AM
Yeah. Heaven forbid they spend any of their own money for nice teeth.

Toothbrush, paste and floss don't cost THAT much!

From what I'm reading EVERYTHING in Britain cost alot!

Neezar
12-31-2009, 12:01 PM
I have to say...I do dislike elements of your law enforcement system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo


There for a second I thought I was watching a bad sequel to the Blairwitch project. (When the car pulled up behind you. lol)


:laugh:



Curtain twitchers. :laugh:

Tyburn
12-31-2009, 12:02 PM
There for a second I thought I was watching a bad sequel to the Blairwitch project. (When the car pulled up behind you. lol)


:laugh:



Curtain twitchers. :laugh:

It did make me jump :laugh:

Neezar
12-31-2009, 12:04 PM
It did make me jump :laugh:

"Ooo, I shall walk around a bit." lmao. I was waiting on you to break out into a run. THAT would have been hilarous.

Tyburn
12-31-2009, 12:12 PM
"Ooo, I shall walk around a bit." lmao. I was waiting on you to break out into a run. THAT would have been hilarous.

I was worried it might have been a police car...but it was just maintainence :rolleyes:

County Mike
12-31-2009, 12:25 PM
Why are you so worried about the police? Criminal activities we don't know about?

Tyburn
12-31-2009, 03:16 PM
Why are you so worried about the police? Criminal activities we don't know about?

:laugh: No...I just dont like getting into trouble....or being told off :unsure-1:

or being approached by an armed stranger :mellow:

Spiritwalker
12-31-2009, 04:42 PM
ok..I finally watched a Dave video all the way through,.... can I have my life back??

Dave.. you can't walk and talk at the same time?? You have to go sit down to compose your thoughts?

At the 331 mark you say that the police aren't out looking for trouble makers... They are there to keep the peace... Well who do you think that they are looking for???

And upon visiting here.. you don't feel like you should make eye contact with the police?? Is that what you meant by avoiding eye contact.. or did you mean something else??

IMO.. if you don't look someone in the key.. you are either weak.. a coward.. have no confidence.. or are doing something that you feel you shouldn't be..


You were/are being paranoid...to a silly extent.. and/or very sensitive.. You should have taken the interaction and enjoyed it (afterwards)... "wow that was nutty".. but instead you talk about how "from an English point of view".. I don't like it.

Batons, mace and tazers.. Oh My.

Spiritwalker
12-31-2009, 04:46 PM
:laugh: No...I just dont like getting into trouble....or being told off :unsure-1:

or being approached by an armed stranger :mellow:

That's the point.. you didn't get into any trouble.. you were just asked a few questions.. hell, you were even offered a ride... How is that trouble..

You were "told off" by the lady cop?? That's the first I have heard of it..

You were in IOWA.. don't you think that maybe.. just maybe... you were around alot of people with guns.. that you just didn't see..

County Mike
12-31-2009, 04:55 PM
I like being approached by lady cops. ;)

Tyburn
01-01-2010, 11:21 AM
You were in IOWA.. don't you think that maybe.. just maybe... you were around alot of people with guns.. that you just didn't see..

What I dont know wont hurt me :laugh:

Tyburn
01-01-2010, 11:21 AM
I like being approached by lady cops. ;)

:laugh: I bet you do :laugh:

KENTUCKYREDBONE
01-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Dave I don't know about your criminals in Britian but we have ones in America that would be glad to beat up a cop if the police didn't have guns on them! In fact Thats the reason some big city cops are required to carry guns even of duty cuase some rioded up nutcase with a grudge may just decide to beat them to death or something! And unless you think I'm exagerating as to how violant some criminals can be study up on it. Maybe even watch a show about what go's on in prisions! Just here not long ago in Kentucky USA a pedophile got beat to death in Prison!

rearnakedchoke
01-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Here is my two cents on this subject as it is very different to most people's views on here...

More guns equal more crime .. yes there are law-abiding citizens who have guns and never use them for criminal behaviour, but when you have access (legally or not) to handguns, automatic weapons, it increases the chances of it getting into criminals hands and therefore cause more gun-related crime ... making it a right to own a firearm is stupid imo ... owning a gun should not be a right, but a privelege ...

Tyburn
01-04-2010, 04:41 PM
Dave I don't know about your criminals in Britian but we have ones in America that would be glad to beat up a cop if the police didn't have guns on them! In fact Thats the reason some big city cops are required to carry guns even of duty cuase some rioded up nutcase with a grudge may just decide to beat them to death or something! And unless you think I'm exagerating as to how violant some criminals can be study up on it. Maybe even watch a show about what go's on in prisions! Just here not long ago in Kentucky USA a pedophile got beat to death in Prison!

Why would I think you were exagerating :huh: I'm sure thats lovely, but its not the way we roll in England :laugh:

Robertboxerboy
01-04-2010, 06:38 PM
Here is my two cents on this subject as it is very different to most people's views on here...

More guns equal more crime .. yes there are law-abiding citizens who have guns and never use them for criminal behaviour, but when you have access (legally or not) to handguns, automatic weapons, it increases the chances of it getting into criminals hands and therefore cause more gun-related crime ... making it a right to own a firearm is stupid imo ... owning a gun should not be a right, but a privelege ...

hhhoooo doggy. I think your gonna get some fire for that one.

It is not stupid for it to be a right to own a fire arm. Lets your walking to a gas station and a man comes up to you and says "I'm gonna blow your brains". And little ole you doesn't have a firearm yourself, what are you gonna do. "Oh no Mr.! Please don't". No pyschopaths care if you pleade or not...but thats also just a guess. A armed robber breaks into your house when your home. And look! your not armed! What will you do call the cops? Yeah right I doubt he would just let you take the time to dial 9-1-1, tell them your problem, answer their questions then hang up the phone.

I have a whole lotta scenarios you would need a gun. Guns are A) Your Right B) A necessity. PLUS it is given to you the Right was given to you the day you were born. Why would you now want to arm yourself in every way possible from the dangers of the world?

I'm sixteen and 9 times out of 10 when I am just walking around on a daily basis I have my small hunting knife in my inside pocket of my jacket. And EVERY time I go to a downtown place like Fort Wayne I carry my dads snub nosed hand gun in my car fully loaded and with and extra speed loader loaded.

rearnakedchoke
01-04-2010, 06:52 PM
hhhoooo doggy. I think your gonna get some fire for that one.

It is not stupid for it to be a right to own a fire arm. Lets your walking to a gas station and a man comes up to you and says "I'm gonna blow your brains". And little ole you doesn't have a firearm yourself, what are you gonna do. "Oh no Mr.! Please don't". No pyschopaths care if you pleade or not...but thats also just a guess. A armed robber breaks into your house when your home. And look! your not armed! What will you do call the cops? Yeah right I doubt he would just let you take the time to dial 9-1-1, tell them your problem, answer their questions then hang up the phone.

I have a whole lotta scenarios you would need a gun. Guns are A) Your Right B) A necessity. PLUS it is given to you the Right was given to you the day you were born. Why would you now want to arm yourself in every way possible from the dangers of the world?

I'm sixteen and 9 times out of 10 when I am just walking around on a daily basis I have my small hunting knife in my inside pocket of my jacket. And EVERY time I go to a downtown place like Fort Wayne I carry my dads snub nosed hand gun in my car fully loaded and with and extra speed loader loaded.

LOL ...

you think if someone pulls a gun on you, they are going to wait and watch you pull out yours before they use theirs? and if someone breaks into your home what are you going to do? unless you have a loaded gun in your nightside table (which is a whole other story)

there are so many guns out there, so the solution is to add more guns to the equation? makes no sense.

Robertboxerboy
01-04-2010, 07:01 PM
you think if someone pulls a gun on you, they are going to wait and watch you pull out yours before they use theirs? and if someone breaks into your home what are you going to do? unless you have a loaded gun in your nightside table (which is a whole other story)

.

Actually my dad does have a 20g. shotgun near his side of the bed:ninja:

NateR
01-04-2010, 07:08 PM
Here is my two cents on this subject as it is very different to most people's views on here...

More guns equal more crime .. yes there are law-abiding citizens who have guns and never use them for criminal behaviour, but when you have access (legally or not) to handguns, automatic weapons, it increases the chances of it getting into criminals hands and therefore cause more gun-related crime ... making it a right to own a firearm is stupid imo ... owning a gun should not be a right, but a privelege ...

hhhoooo doggy. I think your gonna get some fire for that one.

Nah, most of us have just learned to ignore the stupid comments. :rolleyes:

Robertboxerboy
01-04-2010, 07:10 PM
I almost did but I could'nt help myself Nate, I had to engage.

rearnakedchoke
01-04-2010, 07:14 PM
I almost did but I could'nt help myself Nate, I had to engage.

yes, and you didn't disprove what i said .. you gave arguments like what if someone pulls a gun on me, i can shoot them back ...

the problem was to have a silly "right" to own guns in the first place.

NateR
01-04-2010, 07:16 PM
I almost did but I could'nt help myself Nate, I had to engage.

Don't worry, I understand completely. :laugh:

To put it simply, turning our Constitutional right to own firearms into a crime issue is really missing the whole point.

bradwright
01-04-2010, 09:24 PM
Don't worry, I understand completely. :laugh:

To put it simply, turning our Constitutional right to own firearms into a crime issue is really missing the whole point.

actually Nate the only thing some people are saying is that having access to guns by everyone out there simply has to add to the crime problem in some way...its just not logical to think other wise.

I myself do not own any guns...not even one,never have...never will...but i personally dont have a problem with people owning guns...i have lots of friends that own all kinds of guns and they treat them with the respect they deserve but here is an example of how owning guns can contribute to crime....a few years ago one of my friends had his house broken into and most of his guns were stolen and a few weeks later a guy was arrested for holding up a gas station and he was using one of the stolen guns to do it.

people aren't worried about law abiding citizens owning guns but they are worried about criminals having guns.

i just have to say though if a 16 year old like Robert takes a loaded hand gun with him every time he go's downtown then maybe there is a problem with owning hand guns....even you must think thats a little over the top Nate...or do you ?

Neezar
01-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Here is my two cents on this subject as it is very different to most people's views on here...

More guns equal more crime .. yes there are law-abiding citizens who have guns and never use them for criminal behaviour, but when you have access (legally or not) to handguns, automatic weapons, it increases the chances of it getting into criminals hands and therefore cause more gun-related crime ... making it a right to own a firearm is stupid imo ... owning a gun should not be a right, but a privelege ...

Well basically in this country rights are privileges. And once you break the law then you no longer have the right/privilege to own or buy a gun legally. Therefore removing or restricting any rights that are now in place will only effect the law abiding citizens, not the criminals.


actually Nate the only thing some people are saying is that having access to guns by everyone out there simply has to add to the crime problem in some way...its just not logical to think other wise.

I myself do not own any guns...not even one,never have...never will...but i personally dont have a problem with people owning guns...i have lots of friends that own all kinds of guns and they treat them with the respect they deserve but here is an example of how owning guns can contribute to crime....a few years ago one of my friends had his house broken into and most of his guns were stolen and a few weeks later a guy was arrested for holding up a gas station and he was using one of the stolen guns to do it.

people aren't worried about law abiding citizens owning guns but they are worried about criminals having guns.

i just have to say though if a 16 year old like Robert takes a loaded hand gun with him every time he go's downtown then maybe there is a problem with owning hand guns....even you must think thats a little over the top Nate...or do you ?

In my state it is a crime for a 16 year old to carry a hand gun. Not sure it is legal in any state. So that isn't showing a problem in our laws, imo.

NateR
01-04-2010, 09:53 PM
actually Nate the only thing some people are saying is that having access to guns by everyone out there simply has to add to the crime problem in some way...its just not logical to think other wise.


Of course it's logical because that's what the evidence shows. Crime tends to be lower in areas with more legal gun owners.

It's logical because criminals are more likely to prey on those who can't defend themselves than those who can.

If your idea was true, then a town like Hillsboro, where gun ownership is probably somewhere between 70-90% would be crime-ridden hellholes. Well, as someone who lives here, I can tell you that the exact opposite is true. And it's not just Hillsboro, I can name plenty of small towns in Illinois, Missouri, Texas and New Mexico where legal gun ownership is high and crime is low.

If you really pay attention, then you will see that crime is highest in high population areas with strict gun control laws. So, logically, you can say that restricting legal access to guns causes higher crime rates in areas with a high population density.

bradwright
01-04-2010, 10:48 PM
Of course it's logical because that's what the evidence shows. Crime tends to be lower in areas with more legal gun owners.

It's logical because criminals are more likely to prey on those who can't defend themselves than those who can.

If your idea was true, then a town like Hillsboro, where gun ownership is probably somewhere between 70-90% would be crime-ridden hellholes. Well, as someone who lives here, I can tell you that the exact opposite is true. And it's not just Hillsboro, I can name plenty of small towns in Illinois, Missouri, Texas and New Mexico where legal gun ownership is high and crime is low.

If you really pay attention, then you will see that crime is highest in high population areas with strict gun control laws. So, logically, you can say that restricting legal access to guns causes higher crime rates in areas with a high population density.

I grew up in a small town Nate and believe it or not gun ownership was probably between 90-99% (it couldn't have been a 100% because there were no guns in my house growing up) and out side of a few fights breaking out amongst the neighborhood kids once in a while i dont remember there ever being any crime...its not the small towns that are the problems...its the city's that are the problems for the most part and i'm not sure how the laws are different from small towns to big cities in the US but they are no different from small towns to big cities here in Canada and crime is way higher in the city i live in so you are right there is no direct relation between having guns and crime but there is a indirect one and thats all some people are trying to say.
but to tell you the truth i'm not sure what all the fuss is about,
you guys already have plenty of gun laws down there and no matter what happens you will always have plenty of guns in the hands of your citizens.
In Canada we have some very restrictive gun laws yet there are guns all over the place and even though i have never owned a gun i could purchase one any time i wanted so stop worrying its almost impossible to take your right to own guns away its been tried up here and it didn't work.

I know you think i'm against gun ownership because i dont own any myself but thats simply not true...i have handled and used a lot of guns in my life and i know they are a useful tool i just choose not to have them around my house but i dont think you or anybody else shouldn't have them if thats what you want.
i was just simply trying to help you see what some people might be thinking and why they may want access to guns restricted a bit...not that i agree or disagree.

timmyja
01-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Of course it's logical because that's what the evidence shows. Crime tends to be lower in areas with more legal gun owners.

It's logical because criminals are more likely to prey on those who can't defend themselves than those who can.

If your idea was true, then a town like Hillsboro, where gun ownership is probably somewhere between 70-90% would be crime-ridden hellholes. Well, as someone who lives here, I can tell you that the exact opposite is true. And it's not just Hillsboro, I can name plenty of small towns in Illinois, Missouri, Texas and New Mexico where legal gun ownership is high and crime is low.

If you really pay attention, then you will see that crime is highest in high population areas with strict gun control laws. So, logically, you can say that restricting legal access to guns causes higher crime rates in areas with a high population density.


Absolutely, a couple of thugs would think twice about snatching a purse from an old lady if they had to think twice about whether or not she had a .38 snubby that she knew how to use.

Cities like Chicago and Washington DC are prime examples. Tougher gun laws, but somehow the criminals still have them in great abundance.

On another note, I FINALLY turned in my application for my concealed carry permit. I don't know if its because of the new administration, but there were SEVERAL other people in the courthouse doing the same.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
01-08-2010, 07:47 AM
Why would I think you were exagerating :huh: I'm sure thats lovely, but its not the way we roll in England :laugh:

So are your criminals less violent than ours? Or are they less bold?

Tyburn
01-08-2010, 11:24 AM
So are your criminals less violent than ours? Or are they less bold?

probably less bold:laugh:

KENTUCKYREDBONE
01-09-2010, 09:47 AM
probably less bold:laugh:

That may be a good thing! Over here the law has to worry about all kinds! From steroid monsters to crack heads! We also believe that a law officer without the means to enforce his authority will soon loose it! Now in our small towns sometimes you will have a Sheriff or somebody that's well enough liked that most folk's they deal with didn't want to give them trouble but that was more because they were so well liked and respected than out of fear! Still though if unarmed it could have made it more dangerous for them to deal with the criminals that come down from the big city!