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Crisco
12-23-2009, 02:09 PM
That the bible in the infallable word of God?

NateR
12-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Because historical records prove that it is the most reliable ancient document in human history.

It passes the test of historicity in that there is evidence that most of the books were written within the lifespans of living eyewitnesses to the actual events. In other words, when most of these books were originally written you could actually check their stories against the accounts of people who were alive to witness those events themselves.

billwilliams70
12-23-2009, 02:29 PM
There's a song by Dustin Kensrue (of Thrice) called "I Believe"....great lyrics:

Seen your face in every child that smiles,
but I can't help but rejoice.
And I've heard what some called thunder,
but I knew it was your voice.
Touched the holes in your calloused hands,
stuck my fingers in your side.
oh I was six-feet-deep in doubt but
now I'm sure that you're alive

And it's safe to say we'll never know everything still blessings we receive.
And it’s safe to say I really don't know a thing,
still I choose to believe.

Smelt the scent of angel sweet floating in the summer air.
I have breathed in deep the incense,
while the saints send up their prayers.

I have tasted now I see
oh I see that you are good.
And I have ate your perfect body,
and I have drank your blessed blood

And it's safe to say we'll never know everything still blessings we receive.
And it’s safe to say I really don't know a thing,
still I choose to believe.

And all the answers that I find,
only take me so far down the line.
The tracks always give out
yeah it's a leap from the lions mouth.

And it's safe to say we'll never know everything still blessings we receive.
And it’s safe to say I really don't know a thing,
still I choose to believe.

Later.

Crisco
12-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Because historical records prove that it is the most reliable ancient document in human history.

It passes the test of historicity in that there is evidence that most of the books were written within the lifespans of living eyewitnesses to the actual events. In other words, when most of these books were originally written you could actually check their stories against the accounts of people who were alive to witness those events themselves.

But just because it is historically accurate why do we believe it is the written word of God...? If a council of men who did not actually write the book or know Christ decided what was and wasn't cannonical.

This subject interests me greatly as I love to learn more about my faith everyday and to really understand the way we are o view life.

Chris F
12-23-2009, 06:25 PM
But just because it is historically accurate why do we believe it is the written word of God...? If a council of men who did not actually write the book or know Christ decided what was and wasn't cannonical.

This subject interests me greatly as I love to learn more about my faith everyday and to really understand the way we are o view life.

It is the foundation of faith. Either it si true or it is not. If it is not the infailable word of God we have faith in a lie and do so in vain. As Nate said it has proven true time and again. It is the last thing we should struggle with. What gets screwed up is mans interpertation of His Word. This is the biggest reaon I always demand book chapter and verse in context.

Great question and I pray you find the peace about it you desire.

Jonlion
12-23-2009, 07:26 PM
A book that tackles this questions quite wonderfully, is the "case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.

As well as the Bible being historically pretty sound, there are other factors that for me pour into it.

Look at how many witnesses there are, and in the Bible they are refernced, so Luke will tell us, go ask "blah blah" son of "blah blah", he'll tell you.

Look at how Paul, Peter, John and numerous others all willingly took horrible grizzily deaths for the glory of God.

Why did so many people believe eve though it was in no way expedient to do.

The fact that if it had been tampered with, surely Peter as leader of the church would have taken out the part where Jesus calls him a Devil. The fact that it is women who find that Jesus has been resurrected, when there testimony wasn't even considered legal, so if the bible was trying to win people over on lies it would have said men found it.

Also, you notice that whilst the Jewish faith rejects Jesus as the Messiah, there are certain points and areguements the Jews do not make against christianity which they would of had it not been true ( i can't think of specific examples)

There of course is plenty more and of course more eloquently explained and detailed. But there are so many reasons.

And lastly its just faith, essentially thats alll we have and praise the Lord that in his grace we are able to know him.

Crisco
12-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Thank you all for your responses they have been very helpful.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand me I don't mean to say the bible is not the word of God I merely seek to better understand why we believe it is.

It's nice to know to some degree that your faith is infact well placed and not as misguided as all the others.

Tyburn
12-23-2009, 10:18 PM
That the bible in the infallable word of God?

Well there are two themes of theology on this. The first is that the Bible is the exact GOD breathed Text...the other is that its GOD inspired.

Whatever, the Bible makes some pretty bold statements and promises. Enough so that you can say on most issues, its either correct, or its not. Understood properly, its not a pick and mix selection box...you cant really believe one portion without logically believing the whole.

I believe it, because I know its the Truth, its been told to me, i've read it, i've matched it up with experiences, i've weighed up what moral points it makes, and I decided that its either True or False...As I believe its True, then that is pretty much the answer

I believe because I have Faith :)

Crisco
12-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Does anyone else feel is it far easier to believe in God then it is to believe in what others say about him?

That the existance of God and his presence in our lives is much easier to accept then it is to believe the bible to be his teachings?

It's a very deep question and while I don't question that the bible is our Gods instruction for living to us it is in my ultimate quest for knowledge of all things these types of questions come up in my mind often...

What is this book that I build my salvation upon. How did it come to be that my God ordained this to be his words to us.

It's extremely fascinating to me and it in no way puts me in a crisis of faith as I whole heartedly believe in God. My quest to better understand my relationship with him and to better understand all the tools he has given me for life.

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 07:50 PM
1) Does anyone else feel is it far easier to believe in God then it is to believe in what others say about him?

2) That the existance of God and his presence in our lives is much easier to accept then it is to believe the bible to be his teachings?

It's a very deep question and while I don't question that the bible is our Gods instruction for living to us it is in my ultimate quest for knowledge of all things these types of questions come up in my mind often...

4) What is this book that I build my salvation upon. How did it come to be that my God ordained this to be his words to us.

It's extremely fascinating to me and it in no way puts me in a crisis of faith as I whole heartedly believe in God. My quest to better understand my relationship with him and to better understand all the tools he has given me for life.
1)Yes, because many times I hear some Christian spouting an interpretation which I dont think is true

2) Not for me, because I am a Strict J. "GOD" as some globulous term is pretty useless to me, because it has no structure. What is nice about the Bible is it gives a framework to "GOD" he isnt just a "thing" he is a Person. He therefore has likes and dislikes, he has desires. These are taxanomical structures that you can use as a basis for a paradigm. That is very useful to me. an undefined GOD to me, is almost worse then no GOD at all...because I cant deal with chaos

3) Words are important. The fascinating thing about the creation story is that it says that GOD basically used Words to construct everything you see today. He spoke, and that breathed life into whatever it was he was calling.

I want you to listen to this piece of music...because for me it captures that vision. the piece begins with a solitary motif, quiet, unassuming...and the other instruments begin by embelishing the tune, and then one by one more instruments are added each with their own Motifs all playing over the top of one another When I close my eyes, I imagine that Basson as the voice of GOD, eminating from the Spirit that is hovering over a void...and the other Motifs seem to appear almost out of and as a response to that Basson...some are light like Birds...some are jagged like large Volcano...and finally, there is a loud Trumpet...possibly, the Creation of Man. Maybe I just have a wild imagination :laugh: Let me know what you think of it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgHMpYsv0_0

Chris F
12-28-2009, 08:36 PM
Does anyone else feel is it far easier to believe in God then it is to believe in what others say about him?

That the existance of God and his presence in our lives is much easier to accept then it is to believe the bible to be his teachings?

It's a very deep question and while I don't question that the bible is our Gods instruction for living to us it is in my ultimate quest for knowledge of all things these types of questions come up in my mind often...

What is this book that I build my salvation upon. How did it come to be that my God ordained this to be his words to us.

It's extremely fascinating to me and it in no way puts me in a crisis of faith as I whole heartedly believe in God. My quest to better understand my relationship with him and to better understand all the tools he has given me for life.

Great questions and ones that must be asked of us all. I think even if I were not a Chistian I'd still believe in God and the bible because of the evidence. As for what others say about him well as long as what they say can be veriffied by scripture I can believe, but if it does not I reject it.

Crisco
12-28-2009, 08:38 PM
1)Yes, because many times I hear some Christian spouting an interpretation which I dont think is true

2) Not for me, because I am a Strict J. "GOD" as some globulous term is pretty useless to me, because it has no structure. What is nice about the Bible is it gives a framework to "GOD" he isnt just a "thing" he is a Person. He therefore has likes and dislikes, he has desires. These are taxanomical structures that you can use as a basis for a paradigm. That is very useful to me. an undefined GOD to me, is almost worse then no GOD at all...because I cant deal with chaos

3) Words are important. The fascinating thing about the creation story is that it says that GOD basically used Words to construct everything you see today. He spoke, and that breathed life into whatever it was he was calling.

I want you to listen to this piece of music...because for me it captures that vision. the piece begins with a solitary motif, quiet, unassuming...and the other instruments begin by embelishing the tune, and then one by one more instruments are added each with their own Motifs all playing over the top of one another When I close my eyes, I imagine that Basson as the voice of GOD, eminating from the Spirit that is hovering over a void...and the other Motifs seem to appear almost out of and as a response to that Basson...some are light like Birds...some are jagged like large Volcano...and finally, there is a loud Trumpet...possibly, the Creation of Man. Maybe I just have a wild imagination :laugh: Let me know what you think of it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgHMpYsv0_0

Lovely music Dave. Intriguing.

Tyburn
12-28-2009, 10:56 PM
Lovely music Dave. Intriguing.

:ashamed: thanks Crisco...that whole piece, (the video shows the first of four or five sections) is music which I can relate to periods within Scriptural History...I dont know if it was written for that purpose...but I have a wild imagination, and for some reason that piece really brings it out in me.

I think there is something in Words Crisco...if we are made in the image of GOD, and we can speak...and when GOD spoke, things were created, then I wonder how much power there is in our own Words...I wonder how much we say might have power, over us...or over others, or against forces in the spiritual war.

Remember the Bible is known as "The Word" but actually Christ is also known as "The Word" Its a living personification in many ways is it not...because the Bible pretty much lays out the whole of History...and Jesus during his Incarnation was the key between the "before" and "After" part of History

History itself is a work of art, a Creation...and GOD speaks Creation. So perhaps that is also why the Bible is called "Word" because it has the power to create...I think Saint Paul would call it "Transform" but its the same sort of thing. Dwelling on Scripture, is...possibly, a bit like standing infront of the Mouth piece of GOD...and every time he speaks...something happens...perhaps that is how your relationship grows...you need to be "spoken" to, and its Jesus (the Word) through the Bible (The Word) that actually transforms.

More upon...I suspect its supposed to be read allowed. That way the Words become physically spoken to. When you read something outloud, you have to take it slower then when you read in your head. You cant skim read when you have to speak what you are reading.

I'm just throwing out ideas...its not something I have ever spent very long thinking about...except to say that speech in terms of a noise is something picked up in one of the Polythestic Religions that claim the Aum is like the foundation of some kinda spiritual riverberations...Imagine, an Echo of GODs voice bouncing around still...and Science to has whispered about the fact that particals even tiny ones vibrate...as if to some sort of harmonic. Both of those could be aspects of lost truth...they might be like quartz that needs refining to equate to the Scriptures...but its funny isnt it that even some secular stories...or heretical religions...stumble upon GOD IN creation...quite litterally...perhaps also his sustaining power is not so much a force...as a voice, or a sound? perhaps he litterally IS in Creation

Robertboxerboy
12-30-2009, 03:51 PM
For awhile i denied god, i didnt think he could be real, we can't physically see him, we can't hear him. How could he be real? But then for some reason one day i just stopped and looked around. Things were going way too good down here for there NOT to be a higher power. And also, when something goes wrong, I have a cross necklace that hold onto and pray too, and it works, it comforts me, makes me think everything is alright. Thats why I think people like me, believe

Bonnie
12-30-2009, 04:49 PM
For awhile i denied god, i didnt think he could be real, we can't physically see him, we can't hear him. How could he be real? But then for some reason one day i just stopped and looked around. Things were going way too good down here for there NOT to be a higher power. And also, when something goes wrong, I have a cross necklace that hold onto and pray too, and it works, it comforts me, makes me think everything is alright. Thats why I think people like me, believe

Sadly, there are a lot of people out there who think like this. It's like they are sitting on the fence, "maybe he's real", or they have no trouble "believing" when bad things happen, "God, why did you let this happen?"

He gives us a choice to choose. He wants us to choose Him.

You know what gives me comfort, Robert....is that GOD sees everything and knows everything. We cannot hide from Him. :)

Miss Foxy
12-30-2009, 06:36 PM
Belief is like the wind you can't see it, but you can feel it...:wink:

Chuck
12-30-2009, 08:43 PM
Belief is like the wind you can't see it, but you can feel it...:wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwBvyXPoojE

Miss Foxy
12-30-2009, 08:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwBvyXPoojE

I cannot even check out your link my work has everything blocked!! :angry:

donaldbreland
12-30-2009, 09:29 PM
I think everyone knows that there is a God in Heaven. I think most who say they don't believe in God is just saying that because they are comfortable with their sinful lives and they look to not believing so they won't feel bad about the sinning they do. Most of the people who don't believe will not admit to any sin or wrong doing. I think people are scared of what God thinks about them while they are out shooting dope or robbing people so they block him out of their lives. The reason I believe this is because look at all the people in prison who all of the sudden find God in their life. Now they believe because they are guilty and the know that God will be there for them. So they basically turned to God when they need him and they do so in private. How many times have I heard someone say that they found God and how they changed then when they get out of jail they go back to not believing again. That is the devil taking control of their lives. It is the devil that is making all those who say they don't believe in God feel that way. I think most of the people who don't believe are just weaker people. That doesn't make them bad people but they are just weaker.

I gave my life to God on August 13th, 2009 and I will admit it has been a struggle. I expect that because I am weak and I am a sinner. I love God and I will never question the Bible. Never. I will never take away or add anything to the Holy Bible. I believe in the Bible because it's real. It's the most powerful story ever written. I love the Bible because it helps me understand God and helps me want to do right and do better and love my fellow brothers and sisters. My dad asked me a couple questions a few months before he passed away in July of 2008. He asked if I believed if I had the same powers that God gave Jesus? He asked me if I believed if I had the power to heal someone with cancer? He asked if I wanted to move a mountain could I? I answered no to all three. Little did I know or understand what God has in store for his children. In the bible it states that ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH CHRIST. What does that mean to you? To me it means that I do have the same powers that God gave Jesus only if I believe that I am meant to do. It means that I do have the power through Christ to cure cancer and to move a mountain if it's in my way. All we have to do is believe in God and accept him in our hearts. We have to put him first. Even over our own children. We have to earn his trust and the only way to do so is by doing what is right and living our lives right by putting him first.

Last I want to leave you with this. I believe because I know it's true and I don't want any of the plagues God will put on you lol.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

I am sorry for the long post. Just had to get it off my chest.

eric84
12-31-2009, 04:56 PM
Belief is like the wind you can't see it, but you can feel it...:wink:

I second this. I think there are two ways you can look at the Bible, historically, and spiritually. Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven, and it's more important to rely on the spiritual validation of the scriptures. That is why it's not just a history book, but scripture. I really agree with the above quote, the world doesn't "see" it, but those who show their faith can "feel" it.

donaldbreland
12-31-2009, 06:29 PM
[QUOTE]Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven/QUOTE]

I think you are wrong on this. I think it is already proven because the Bible says it. If the Bible says it happened then it did. Do not question the book. A true Christian would never do that.

Miss Foxy
12-31-2009, 07:22 PM
[QUOTE]Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven/QUOTE]

I think you are wrong on this. I think it is already proven because the Bible says it. If the Bible says it happened then it did. Do not question the book. A true Christian would never do that.

And you wrote the bible? Who are you to say whether anyone is a "true CHristian" or not? Are you? I highly doubt it.. Relax.:wacko:

eric84
12-31-2009, 08:23 PM
[QUOTE]Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven/QUOTE]

I think you are wrong on this. I think it is already proven because the Bible says it. If the Bible says it happened then it did. Do not question the book. A true Christian would never do that.

Maybe you misunderstood me, I never said they weren't true, I was just explaining that you don't come to know they are true through history. Jesus the man lived as history shows, but according to history he was just a man. As a "true christian" I know he was more than just a man, but I didn't come to know this through any amount of history.

As far as a true Christian never questioning the book, that kind of thinking to me seems fanatical. If your parents taught you never to question blowing up people, I guess you should never question it right? All of us need to find out on our own, and part of finding out is questioning. I think God wants us to ask questions so he can teach us, asking questions doesn't mean your doubting, but that your seeking God's mysteries.

Chuck
12-31-2009, 08:28 PM
[QUOTE]Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven/QUOTE]

I think you are wrong on this. I think it is already proven because the Bible says it. If the Bible says it happened then it did. Do not question the book. A true Christian would never do that.

A ridiculous statement without any merit at all. To not question something doesn't show or prove your faith... it simply illustrates blind faith which isn't any better than no faith.

Crisco
12-31-2009, 10:48 PM
[QUOTE=donaldbreland;90365]

A ridiculous statement without any merit at all. To not question something doesn't show or prove your faith... it simply illustrates blind faith which isn't any better than no faith.

Agree 100% Chuck.

Asking questions is required.

donaldbreland
01-01-2010, 12:01 AM
The way I said that and what I mean came out completely wrong and for that I am sorry. I was in a rush and had to write fast so please forgive me. What I meant to say was that I believe if it's in the Bible than it has to be true. I was always told to not question the book but from time to time I can't help but to question it. I hear people all the time try and say that the Bible can't be real and that the Bible is a made up story. I just got baptized and I am learning as much as I can. I make mistakes everyday and admit that I do not lead the perfect life. I am trying each day to do better and hopefully I will become a better person. I do apologize for being in a rush earlier. I was not trying to say that you shouldn't question the Bible. I was always told not to growing up. I was always taught that if it's in the Bible than it is true. I feel that in no way should I question it even if I do have questions. I do believe that can be taken two different ways and a lot of southerners from South Carolina have took it the wrong way. I think what the statement do not question the Bible truly was supposed to mean was do not say that the Bible is a lie. Some people get that mixed up with wanting to know an answer about a question about the Bible. Again I apologize for the misunderstandment.

I will say this about y'all. I respect each and every one of you on this part of the site and look up to y'all for advice about the Bible. The only person I had to help me answer questions was my Dad. He's dead now so I no longer have him. So please try and correct me if I'm wrong I would greatly appreciate it.

MattHughesRocks
01-01-2010, 12:10 AM
I doubt that someone who truly believes in God "stops" when it's not convenient. I think they were "hoping" when in trouble then when that blows over they just go about their sinful, unbelieving lives.Just like people running around saying they are saved, they believe,even know some scripture, blah blah blah then go sleep with their boyfriend/girlfriends every night and everything else in their lives are me me me until things go bad then it's "God help me".It's ridiculous.Those people aren't really saved.
I guess that's what you said pretty much, at least the first part of your post :laugh:

I think everyone knows that there is a God in Heaven. I think most who say they don't believe in God is just saying that because they are comfortable with their sinful lives and they look to not believing so they won't feel bad about the sinning they do. Most of the people who don't believe will not admit to any sin or wrong doing. I think people are scared of what God thinks about them while they are out shooting dope or robbing people so they block him out of their lives. The reason I believe this is because look at all the people in prison who all of the sudden find God in their life. Now they believe because they are guilty and the know that God will be there for them. So they basically turned to God when they need him and they do so in private. How many times have I heard someone say that they found God and how they changed then when they get out of jail they go back to not believing again. That is the devil taking control of their lives. It is the devil that is making all those who say they don't believe in God feel that way. I think most of the people who don't believe are just weaker people. That doesn't make them bad people but they are just weaker.

I gave my life to God on August 13th, 2009 and I will admit it has been a struggle. I expect that because I am weak and I am a sinner. I love God and I will never question the Bible. Never. I will never take away or add anything to the Holy Bible. I believe in the Bible because it's real. It's the most powerful story ever written. I love the Bible because it helps me understand God and helps me want to do right and do better and love my fellow brothers and sisters. My dad asked me a couple questions a few months before he passed away in July of 2008. He asked if I believed if I had the same powers that God gave Jesus? He asked me if I believed if I had the power to heal someone with cancer? He asked if I wanted to move a mountain could I? I answered no to all three. Little did I know or understand what God has in store for his children. In the bible it states that ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH CHRIST. What does that mean to you? To me it means that I do have the same powers that God gave Jesus only if I believe that I am meant to do. It means that I do have the power through Christ to cure cancer and to move a mountain if it's in my way. All we have to do is believe in God and accept him in our hearts. We have to put him first. Even over our own children. We have to earn his trust and the only way to do so is by doing what is right and living our lives right by putting him first.

Last I want to leave you with this. I believe because I know it's true and I don't want any of the plagues God will put on you lol.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

I am sorry for the long post. Just had to get it off my chest.

donaldbreland
01-01-2010, 01:05 AM
I know for me before my dad passed away I had no clue as to what to do in life. I always believed in God but was to selfish to actually accept him and put him first. When I would go out drinking I would always have a good time and I have to admit the last thought on my mind was God. 2002 was the year I really noticed a change start happening in my life. At this point I was barely over 22 years of age and had already been to jail twice from drinking. The good thing was I never drove lol. I was always caught outside the bar raisin kane. On July 4 of 2002 I met my wife. It was on a beach on the Isle of Palms in South Carolina. A year and 2 days later we had our first kid. From that point on I stopped drinking and wanted better. So I started my own business but later found out that I was missing something in my life. See I had to Idea what life was about. My dad moved from here in 2001 and moved to Georgia. Mostly because of me. I was selfish, no good waste of nothing but lies and cheating. I was close to being an alcoholic but I didn't need the alcohol to live. I chose to do it because I felt cooler and I was hanging out with different girls and every weekend was a party. My dad got sick and tired of me and in one day he went from being my best friend to a dad and made me grow up. Little did I know I would find myself homeless. So it took me from April of 01 until July of 02 to straighten my life out. So I thought.

As I said before I had no idea what life was about and 8 years later I'm still trying to work on me. I went from 2001 until about may of 2003 without saying one word to my dad. My dad left South Carolina and was a racist and the most non Christian man I have ever met. In 2003 all I ever remembered was the way dad was. My first words to him was why in the G.D Heck is he calling me. I talked to him a few minutes and this man seemed different. He seemed more happy and didn't use any curse words when he spoke. I was wowed so much that I forgot about him leaving and leaving me homeless. Every other day for the next couple months my would always call me and only wanted to talk about the Bible and how I needed to find a church. My son was born in July and my dad came down to visit me in August. Little did I know that would be the last time I ever saw my dad alive. He held my son and to me that meant a lot. Still having dinner at Ruby Tuesdays all my dad wanted to do was talk about God and the Bible. He felt like it was the most important thing for me to do was to accept God in my life. To be honest at that point in life all I cared about was money. My business was starting to boom and I made excuse after excuse not to visit my dad. My dad lived in Albany Georgia which was 6 hours away from where I lived. I drove all the way to Orlando Florida and went to Sea World and didn't go see him like I planned. I always thought that he would be here and I questioned Gods power in my own mind. Like I said before I never got to see the man again.
In July 23rd 2008 my life would change forever. I was on the way to bid a job when I got a phone call from my sister saying daddy was dieing and to get there now. I got to Albany Georgia at 12:00 a.m exactly and seen my dad for the first time. I took my son and daughter in there and that was the first time the really seen their grand daddy. I always talked to my dad on the phone but I never actually paid attention to what he was saying. So I thought anyway. I did start to read the Bible but I was very unsuccessful at doing so Until July. Earlier that month is when I truly started to understand what he was saying. My dad that is. It all started coming together. I could sit and read and wanted to learn more. I was thirsty for the Bible. As I walked in to the lobby after seeing my dad I was amazed at how many people were there to see him before he died. My dad was in a coma and was on life support but at 12:00 in the morning the lobby had no room for other families. There were black people there for my dad which was weired. My dad in 2001 was a huge racist. He even marched for the Confederate flag when they wanted to take it down from the state capital. There was people from all ethnics there to see my dad pass. At that moment a calm feeling came over me. I wasn't crying or feeling bad for what happened but I felt good. People started coming to me and telling me what kind of an inspiration my dad was. I was truly amazed. I knew at that point I wanted to know more about God and Jesus and everything. I wanted to know all I could. My dad passed at 2:00 p.m on July 24 and had his service on July 26th. The service was at his church www.lcci.us in Albany Georgia. It was amazing. There were tons of people still coming up to me and offered hugs and again saying what kind of inspiration my dad was. I thought real hard about what to say because I knew people expected me to say something about him. So at that moment on July 26th 2008 I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins. I asked the preacher to help me with the sinners prayer and at that moment everyone in the churched prayed it with me.
I thought because I was saved that my life would go by much smoother but it didn't. In order for me to truly get a grip on my life and put God first I had to delete what kept me from my family in the first place. My business and money. I sold my business for a little of nothing and starting learning me all over again. I wanted to know who I was and what I was about. I didn't know if I would like me but I soon found out that this person I found was who I really was. I didn't change from the outside, I changed from the inside. I started to love me. I started to love my family more and more each day. I started to put God first. On August 13th at 11:30 a.m I got baptized. It was the greatest moment in my life. For a split second I felt that my dad was proud of me. Not my earthly dad either. I felt God was happy. I felt as if Jesus was celebrating. I was a new Person. I started a new Business. Born Again Handyman Services. I am living a different life now than I was in May of 2008. I am not trying to be someone I'm not anymore. I finally am being who I am. To most of you on here I owe a lot of gratitude to you for your help along the way. Please continue to be there and help me stay on the right path. Thanks so much, God Bless, I love you and Happy New Year.

MattHughesRocks
01-01-2010, 01:10 AM
Happy New Year kid! :happydancing:

Mark
01-01-2010, 04:18 AM
I second this. I think there are two ways you can look at the Bible, historically, and spiritually. Historically many of the stories in the Bible can be proven to be true, but not everything(Creation,Jesus's Miracles). Historically speaking those can't be proven, and it's more important to rely on the spiritual validation of the scriptures. That is why it's not just a history book, but scripture. I really agree with the above quote, the world doesn't "see" it, but those who show their faith can "feel" it.

When was the book of morman wrote? Do you believe everything in it?

Play The Man
01-01-2010, 05:28 AM
Because historical records prove that it is the most reliable ancient document in human history.

It passes the test of historicity in that there is evidence that most of the books were written within the lifespans of living eyewitnesses to the actual events. In other words, when most of these books were originally written you could actually check their stories against the accounts of people who were alive to witness those events themselves.

F.F. Bruce's The New Testament Documents - Are They Reliable? is a good book to read about the reliability of the New Testament.

K. A. Kitchen's On The Reliability Of The Old Testament covers the Old Testament.

Play The Man
01-01-2010, 05:40 AM
When was the book of morman wrote? Do you believe everything in it?

It was written in 1811 by Solomon Spalding as a novel of historical fiction entitled A Manuscript Found. Spalding, a down-on-his-luck former minister, was referred to as "Old Come To Pass" because his book contained the phrase "And It Came To Pass" so many times. Not surprisingly, the 1830 Book of Mormon contained the phrase, "And It Came To Pass" more than 15 times as often as the entire 1611 King James Bible.

Jonlion
01-01-2010, 04:00 PM
What I find interesting is that "evidence" and sources attributed to Alexander the Great are all generally accepted as good reliable sources.

Even so, some history may be written 200 years later, and other factors. So many things we as a general public accept as reasonable truth about the ancients are taken and never questioned or ridiculed like that of the Bible where people question how we can know the truth about it when it happened 2010 years ago!

So, with the Gospels we have numerous first hand witnesss reports, written from anything 30years to 100 years after Christs death which for this age is spectacuarly close.

And then you have this amazing thorough and precise man in Luke who goes to great trouble to seek out witnesses and double check. And you have the references of go speak to "blah bllah" son of "blah Blah" and he'll tell you he saw Jesus do this and so forth.

So for me, the Gospels in so many ways are reliable and true.

The stuff in red below is an answer from Mars Hill Theology to the question why does the OT/Bible have so much unscientific nonsense.

I think it deals well with the OT and how to take it sometimes if you have troubles with proof and so forth.



This question really makes no sense to me because the video does not specify under what grounds these things are supposed to be “unscientific.” The Bible – and the creation account in Genesis in particular – were never meant to be scientific records for us. They simply tell the story with only the details that God feels are important to us. We worship a God who is powerful enough to create simply by the power of His spoken word.


It is good to have faith and no need for proofs but it isnt a bad thing to seek and to question. Its a way to press in.

All by Gods Grace!

eric84
01-04-2010, 02:25 PM
When was the book of morman wrote? Do you believe everything in it?

I don't want to hijack the thread about mormonism when it is specifically about belief in the Bible. Also if you recall a few months back there was a big thread where I replied to alot of questions. To quickly answer your 2 questions, I believe the gospel teached in the book of mormon is true, and as far as when it was written would be different depending on your belief. As far as myself, most books in the Book of Mormon were written from 600 bc to 400 AD approximately, and then translated into English around 1830.

NateR
01-04-2010, 02:38 PM
The stuff in red below is an answer from Mars Hill Theology to the question why does the OT/Bible have so much unscientific nonsense.

I think it deals well with the OT and how to take it sometimes if you have troubles with proof and so forth.



This question really makes no sense to me because the video does not specify under what grounds these things are supposed to be “unscientific.” The Bible – and the creation account in Genesis in particular – were never meant to be scientific records for us. They simply tell the story with only the details that God feels are important to us. We worship a God who is powerful enough to create simply by the power of His spoken word.


It is good to have faith and no need for proofs but it isnt a bad thing to seek and to question. Its a way to press in.

All by Gods Grace!

This is the primary fallacy of modern thought: that anything and everything can be answered by science. Science, by definition, is the study of the natural world. In other words, the world that we can see, hear, touch, taste and smell at this very moment. Anything outside of our 5 senses and beyond our lifetimes is pseudo(false)-science.

GOD is a supernatural being who acts in supernatural ways with thoughts infinitely above our comprehension.

So why are people under this false assumption that science (a study that is strictly limited to natural phenomenon) can explain the supernatural?

Llamafighter
01-04-2010, 02:41 PM
This is the primary fallacy of modern thought: that anything and everything can be answered by science. Science, by definition, is the study of the natural world. In other words, the world that we can see, hear, touch, taste and smell at this very moment. Anything outside of our 5 senses and beyond our lifetimes is pseudo(false)-science.

GOD is a supernatural being who acts in supernatural ways with thoughts infinitely above our comprehension.

So why are people under this false assumption that science (a study that is strictly limited to natural phenomenon) can explain the supernatural?

...or why do they feel it has too?

Chris F
01-04-2010, 06:39 PM
I don't want to hijack the thread about mormonism when it is specifically about belief in the Bible. Also if you recall a few months back there was a big thread where I replied to alot of questions. To quickly answer your 2 questions, I believe the gospel teached in the book of mormon is true, and as far as when it was written would be different depending on your belief. As far as myself, most books in the Book of Mormon were written from 600 bc to 400 AD approximately, and then translated into English around 1830.

Eric would you PM me with why most Mormons do not believe the bible is infailabe and complete as is. I have never got a response from anyone I have asked this question. Thank you sir.

Jonlion
01-04-2010, 09:49 PM
This is the primary fallacy of modern thought: that anything and everything can be answered by science. Science, by definition, is the study of the natural world. In other words, the world that we can see, hear, touch, taste and smell at this very moment. Anything outside of our 5 senses and beyond our lifetimes is pseudo(false)-science.

GOD is a supernatural being who acts in supernatural ways with thoughts infinitely above our comprehension.

So why are people under this false assumption that science (a study that is strictly limited to natural phenomenon) can explain the supernatural?

I quite agree. The fact is no science can be proven but our secular society is so willing to believe anything that is spouted off as fact by scientists such as the "big bang" and would call us ridicalous for questioning it.

I remember reading an article where it said "proper" scientists never make bold statements on global warming because they are always far from sure. Its just people looking for press who spout of theories as facts.

I miss the study of natural science in its old sense, i feel it has been somewhat hijacked.

bradwright
01-04-2010, 09:52 PM
i think the actual Question asked by Crisco was why do we believe...
well i personally think the answer to that question falls into 1 of three different possibilities depending on your own personal circumstances.

#1.you believe because you have unwavering faith that God exists even though you have no facts to back it up.

#2.you believe because something has happened in your life that left no doubt in your mind that God exists. ( thats me.)

#3.because you are so scared that there might actually be a hell that you are not going to take any chances just in case.


i sure hope you didn't nod your head when you read the third one.:wink:

Jonlion
01-04-2010, 10:05 PM
i think the actual Question asked by Crisco was why do we believe...
well i personally think the answer to that question falls into 1 of three different possibilities depending on your own personal circumstances.

#1.you believe because you have unwavering faith that God exists even though you have no facts to back it up.

#2.you believe because something has happened in your life that left no doubt in your mind that God exists. ( thats me.)

#3.because you are so scared that there might actually be a hell that you are not going to take any chances just in case.


i sure hope you didn't nod your head when you read the third one.:wink:

Hey my man, I originally fell into this category, I knew without doubt there was a god, a Jesus.

Yet i kept it entirely on my own terms, and to be honest made no attempt to read the only words and guidance professed and died for over 2000 years. Its kinda arrogant of me. And so, I started to read his words and now I 100% it to be his word.

I aint trying to call you out, or be mean or holy, I am still such a baby but i would just urge to keep persueing God if you have this faith in his existance.

He is wooing you!

Anyway, sorry if i offend by jumping on something that has no relation to you