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Tyburn
02-10-2009, 07:10 PM
I want to ask a question. Why canít the Judges of a Competition deduct points without the direct command from the Ref?



You might ask why I would want to give judges that power, when they have been known to act politically at times both for and against participants in the UFC. My answer, strange though it may sound, would be on the ground of Fighter safety. Now I expect you are really puzzled, so I shall explain.

follow the link for the rest :laugh:

http://www.mmahitpit.com/news/anaccidentwaitingtohappen

ufcfan2
02-11-2009, 12:45 AM
I did'nt click on link I was afraid I would of gotten Rick 'N Rolled :tongue0011:

Tyburn
02-11-2009, 12:47 AM
:huh: I'm sorry, do you speak English :laugh:

I promise its just a link to my artical :ninja:
I did'nt click on link I was afraid I would of gotten Rick 'N Rolled :tongue0011:

Max
02-11-2009, 04:32 AM
allowing a judge to take a point away when the ref does not think a point should be taken away is stupid. Allowing a judge to take a point away when no foul has even been called or rule the fight a no contest ****ing stupid. First, if a foul, such as a low blow or poke in the eye, makes it so a fighter can not continue the fighter who committed the foul is not given the win. The only time I have ever seen this happen was in the Anthony Johnson fight and that was because the ref did not see the eye poke. In most cases the fight will be ruled a No Contest or if the fight has gone long enough (past the 3rd round I think) they will go to the judges. Second, there is no way they can allow judges to take points away if the ref did not think a point should be taken away. You are giving the judge more power than the should ever have. There would be no consistency in the judging at that point. Allowing them to take points away when no foul was even called would cause even more problems. A judge could take a point away simply because he might have seen a foul that might or might not have happened. If MMA made the changes you suggest it would destroy the sport.

Tyburn
02-11-2009, 01:23 PM
allowing a judge to take a point away when the ref does not think a point should be taken away is stupid. Allowing a judge to take a point away when no foul has even been called or rule the fight a no contest ****ing stupid. First, if a foul, such as a low blow or poke in the eye, makes it so a fighter can not continue the fighter who committed the foul is not given the win. The only time I have ever seen this happen was in the Anthony Johnson fight and that was because the ref did not see the eye poke. In most cases the fight will be ruled a No Contest or if the fight has gone long enough (past the 3rd round I think) they will go to the judges. Second, there is no way they can allow judges to take points away if the ref did not think a point should be taken away. You are giving the judge more power than the should ever have. There would be no consistency in the judging at that point. Allowing them to take points away when no foul was even called would cause even more problems. A judge could take a point away simply because he might have seen a foul that might or might not have happened. If MMA made the changes you suggest it would destroy the sport.

No, the judges only have that power IF it goes to decision....and I dont mean the judges just take points. I think when the Ref calls for a time out. So its OBVIOUS a foul has happened. then the Judges shouldnt need him to come and tell them they can deduct a point if they so wish.

It would make Fighters less careless, and also make them want to FINISH the fights more. That of course would leave the judges powerless, since they can only act IF the fighters fail to finish the fight.

This is all in the hands of a fighter. A careful fighter wont be penalized, a Fighter who finishes wether careful or not wont be penalized. A fighter who keeps delivering low blows and fails to finish his opponent legitamately will get it in the head. I think that he deserves it. There is no way that Dan Henderson deserved to win that fight. How could one expect Franklin to win the first and third rounds when dissadvantaged through no fault of his own BY illegal moves on Hendersons behalf?

So...they've rewarded Henderson for a bad performance. TUF has the power to make or break someones popularity, I hope its a curse for him. I dont know about the headbutt, but that eyepoke looked deliberate. Would you still be so happy, if Rich Franklin had been forced to retire or something...coz I'm telling you its just a matter of time. Dont you dare go on about Fighter Safety the day one of your idols is forced into early retirement by an illegal move, if you offer nothing as to how to solve the issue.

And...are you honnestly telling me if they had stopped the fight they wouldnt have called it as Henderson by TKO in the third? Look at Anderson Silva who had nothing to do with the stoppage Verses Patrick Cote...and yet who won?

Max
02-11-2009, 03:29 PM
And...are you honnestly telling me if they had stopped the fight they wouldnt have called it as Henderson by TKO in the third? Look at Anderson Silva who had nothing to do with the stoppage Verses Patrick Cote...and yet who won?
Im gonna respond to this first and then I will respond to the rest of your post later. Had the fight been stopped at that point they would not have just given the fight to Henderson. I think there were only 10 sec left so they might have gone to the judges score cards but they would not have ruled the fight a TKO for Hendo. There is a major difference in what happened in the Silva vs Cote fight and a fight ending in an illegal blow. Silva did nothing illegal to cause Cote to get hurt. Cote was throwing a punch, or kick I cant remember, and hurt himself. At that point Cote could not continue and they have to call the fight for Silva. The same thing would have happened had BJ not been able to continue when he hurt his rib against Matt. The fight would have been ruled a TKO for Matt.

VCURamFan
02-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Im gonna respond to this first and then I will respond to the rest of your post later. Had the fight been stopped at that point they would not have just given the fight to Henderson. I think there were only 10 sec left so they might have gone to the judges score cards but they would not have ruled the fight a TKO for Hendo. There is a major difference in what happened in the Silva vs Cote fight and a fight ending in an illegal blow. Silva did nothing illegal to cause Cote to get hurt. Cote was throwing a punch, or kick I cant remember, and hurt himself. At that point Cote could not continue and they have to call the fight for Silva. The same thing would have happened had BJ not been able to continue when he hurt his rib against Matt. The fight would have been ruled a TKO for Matt.Agreed. There's a huge difference between a stoppage due to illegal blow & a stoppage due to injury.

Neezar
02-11-2009, 07:06 PM
allowing a judge to take a point away when the ref does not think a point should be taken away is stupid.

I agree.

Tyburn
02-11-2009, 07:08 PM
:mellow:

Well i'm entitled to my opinion :tongue0011:

Neezar
02-11-2009, 07:10 PM
Yes, you are. :) Even if we do think it sucks. :laugh:

Tyburn
02-11-2009, 09:17 PM
Yes, you are. :) Even if we do think it sucks. :laugh:
:sign0090:

my artical doesnt suck :angry:

:laugh:

GroundNPound
02-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Maybe we can think about this when the judges actually have a clue. I'm trying to think of how we can remove them all together. WAY too many bad decisions. How can 2 judges score it 29-28 for one guy and the third judge scores it 30 - 27 for the losing guy...ummm, no.

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Maybe we can think about this when the judges actually have a clue. I'm trying to think of how we can remove them all together. WAY too many bad decisions. How can 2 judges score it 29-28 for one guy and the third judge scores it 30 - 27 for the losing guy...ummm, no.
The Judges dont exist UNLESS the fighters fail to finish.

This isnt rocket science, the easiest way to avoid politics is FINISH the Fight. :rolleyes:

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:37 PM
The Judges dont exist UNLESS the fighters fail to finish.

This isnt rocket science, the easiest way to avoid politics is FINISH the Fight. :rolleyes:

You should put that as your signature saying lately. :laugh:

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 06:39 PM
You should put that as your signature saying lately. :laugh:
:blink: But I have Jens Pulver in my siggie instead :mellow:

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:41 PM
:blink: But I have Jens Pulver in my siggie instead :mellow:

Can't you type under him? :mellow:

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:42 PM
Nmd. I see it. :laugh:

GroundNPound
02-12-2009, 06:42 PM
The Judges dont exist UNLESS the fighters fail to finish.

This isnt rocket science, the easiest way to avoid politics is FINISH the Fight. :rolleyes:

My point was that the judges are stupid so why give them any more power over the outcome of a fight. :rolleyes:

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
Can't you type under him? :mellow:
he's Delicate :ninja: :cry:

:laugh:

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
he's Delicate :ninja: :cry:

:laugh:


He is going to get way worse if he doesn't stay the hell away from those counselors! He needs a good Christian counselor.

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
My point was that the judges are stupid so why give them any more power over the outcome of a fight. :rolleyes:
Because a fighter should be punished for low blows, and at present, quite frankly, they arent

Thus...you tell me what stops a fighter going out and deliberately making illegal moves and low blows in order to gain an advantage? I've seen it where several repeats have only led to a Ref warning...but thats still undermined the guy on the receiving end whether they get a time out or not.

What will you say the day that an eyepoke leads to blindness and the end of somebodies career??

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 06:49 PM
He is going to get way worse if he doesn't stay the hell away from those counselors! He needs a good Christian counselor.
:ninja: I was talking about my Siggie :blink:

GroundNPound
02-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Because a fighter should be punished for low blows, and at present, quite frankly, they arent

Thus...you tell me what stops a fighter going out and deliberately making illegal moves and low blows in order to gain an advantage? I've seen it where several repeats have only led to a Ref warning...but thats still undermined the guy on the receiving end whether they get a time out or not.

What will you say the day that an eyepoke leads to blindness and the end of somebodies career??

I think where your logic fails is that you are painting all refs with the same brush. The responsibility is in the ref....a good ref will give warnings and take points if need be. Train the refs better...don't let a judge decide it.

If an eyepoke was THAT deliberate then AGAIN it is up to the ref to disqualify or not. Not the judge. If a guy's career is over because of an unintentional eye poke then that's just the sad part of the game. It's a contact sport.

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:51 PM
:ninja: So was I. :blink:



:mellow:

Neezar
02-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Judges are too easy to buy.

Tyburn
02-12-2009, 07:00 PM
1) I think where your logic fails is that you are painting all refs with the same brush. The responsibility is in the ref....a good ref will give warnings and take points if need be. Train the refs better...

2) don't let a judge decide it.

3) If an eyepoke was THAT deliberate then AGAIN it is up to the ref to disqualify or not. Not the judge. If a guy's career is over because of an unintentional eye poke then that's just the sad part of the game. It's a contact sport.

1) I would be happy if they made a compulsory rulling that for each low blow, which results in a time-out from the Ref, a point is deducted.

2) The Judges dont decide anything unless it goes to decision. Wowser, we kill two birds with one stone. DONT created "accidents" aiding fighter Safety, or the Judges will get ya, aiding to a greater focus on finishing the fights to avoid the Judges.

3) no, we're looking at ways to minimize that chance. If Fighters know they will be in trouble for eyepokes they will be more concentrated on not having accidents. Reduce the number of accidents, reduce the likely hood someone is hurt. Contact sport or not, we should be seen to engage with issues of fighter safety, not shake our heads and say "so sad, to bad"

If you can think of a way to motivate Fighters to 1) finish fights 2) reduce the rising number of lowblows/illegal moves...then I'm all for listening...would you rather we attack the finances instead?

For example, if you repeatedly have accidents, we could say no winners bonus if you win. Lose a K for each "accident" if you lose. But I think thats MORE mean then what i'm suggesting. :unsure-1:

GroundNPound
02-12-2009, 07:10 PM
I think most fighters are already motivated to finish the fight because they say it all the time..."Don't leave it in the hands of the judges." Most guys have been screwed on a decision one time or another.

And yeah, I say start taking money away from repeat offenders if it gets that bad. I would just hate to see the judges with any more power.

Max
02-14-2009, 05:55 AM
Dave its not always easy to finish fights. You act like ever time a fight goes to a dec its cause the fighters were not trying hard enough. Dec are bound to happen unless you just let the fights go on till one guy finishes the other.

Tyburn
02-14-2009, 12:15 PM
You act like ever time a fight goes to a dec its cause the fighters were not trying hard enough. .
No, but I do think some fighters dont try and actually finish. I think that might be on the increase aswell. Some fighters even admit it. :mellow:

Spiritwalker
02-14-2009, 04:57 PM
The same thing would have happened had BJ not been able to continue when he hurt his rib against Matt. The fight would have been ruled a TKO for Matt.


It was ruled a TKO for Matt.

http://www.ufc.com/MattHughes

matthughesfan21
02-14-2009, 06:44 PM
It was ruled a TKO for Matt.

http://www.ufc.com/MattHughesnot because of injury though, because of this right here is why it was a TKO

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/matthughes21/mattversuspenn.gif

VCURamFan
02-14-2009, 07:07 PM
not because of injury though, because of this right here is why it was a TKO

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/matthughes21/mattversuspenn.gifYeah, those knuckle sandwiches are very high in carbohydrates, it's no wonder he was struggling to work on his cardio.