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rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:00 AM
Figured I'd start the Pac/PBF thread as the Pac/Cotto match is over, and especially because...

It's on now! Mayweather calls out Pacquiao!

Negotiations are underway, but I'm sure we won't hear much more until the Cotto-Pac PPV numbers are out:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-11-16-boxing-mayweather_N.htm

Mayweather calls out Pacquiao; talks on fight set to begin

By J. Michael Falgoust, USA TODAY

In the next 24 hours, negotiations will commence to arrange the biggest fight in boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather.

The former mythical pound-for-pound king before he took an almost two-year hiatus in 2007 — Mayweather — against the current one, an action hero who already is the greatest Asian fighter in history and one of the all-time greats from any era in any weight class.

After Saturday's shocking destruction of Miguel Cotto via 12th-round knockout, Pacquiao (50-3-2, 38 KOs) has earned a share of the lineal welterweight championship and picked up a major belt in his seventh different weight class.

Monday, Mayweather called out Pacquiao, saying the fighter has not come out and actually said he wants to fight Mayweather.

"Manny Pacquiao is the fighter and every time someone asks him if he wants to fight me, he says it is up to his promoter, he's going to take a vacation, whatever the answer is," Mayweather said. "I have yet to hear him actually say, 'yes I want to fight Mayweather.' We are the fighters and if one fighter is talking about fighting another fighter, then they should just come out and say it. Manny Pacquiao doesn't say anything directly about fighting me because he might just know it's not a fight he can win."

Said Bob Arum, chairman of Top Rank, which promotes the Filipino and formerly promoted Mayweather: "All you have to know is that my fighter and his trainer Freddie Roach have gone on record saying they're happy to fight Mayweather. Hopefully we'll be able to put this together," he said. "The one thing I'm not going to do, and the only thing that's going to kill this, is to negotiate through the newspapers. If that happens and egos get in the way, the fight might not happen. From our side, we're willing."

While Mayweather has been reluctant to say he wants to fight Pacquiao, even after his decision win against Juan Manuel Marquez in September, he's been vocal about Arum and suggests the promoter is afraid of putting Pacquiao in the ring with him.

"You know that isn't true," Arum says. "Maybe I prefer not to deal with him. But if your fighter wants a fight, you deal. Mayweather is not one of my favorite people and I'm sure I'm not one of his. What difference does that make?

"If we were talking about some match on (HBO's) Boxing After Dark, then you can have plenty of spite and no one loses very much on a fight not being made. In this case it's more than just the money. It's the fact that boxing is on a roll. It's doing great. If this fight doesn't happen it hurts the momentum of the sport and that does a disservice to the sport. I'm keenly aware of that."

The undefeated Mayweather says he just wants to hear the words come from Pacquiao that he wants to fight.

"Tell Manny Pacquiao to be his own man and stop letting everyone, including his loudmouth trainer (Freddie Roach), talk for him," said Mayweather. "I am my own boss, speak for myself and tell it like it is. If Manny Pacquiao wants to fight me, all he has to do is step up to the plate and say it himself."

EDIT: Damnit, I spelled "Pacquiao" wrong in the title of the thread, lol

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:16 AM
Well...it's not set in stone yet, but this fight will happen. They risk to lose too much money if they don't make it happen next.

Definitely the biggest fight of this era. This is a great time for the sport.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:18 AM
Well...it's not set in stone yet, but this fight will happen. They risk to lose too much money if they don't make it happen next.

Definitely the biggest fight of this era. This is a great time for the sport.
Well, you know it means a lot if Mayweather is going to call out Pacquiao first. Definitely an underlying sign of respect, but you won't hear it from Mayweather :laugh:

Hope this goes down in March. I think Pac was already looking at March 23 or something like that for his next fight. Would love to see Jerry Jones host this at the new Cowboys stadium! I wouldn't care if I'm in the nosebleeds, I'm there!

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:36 AM
Well, you know it means a lot if Mayweather is going to call out Pacquiao first. Definitely an underlying sign of respect, but you won't hear it from Mayweather :laugh:

Hope this goes down in March. I think Pac was already looking at March 23 or something like that for his next fight. Would love to see Jerry Jones host this at the new Cowboys stadium! I wouldn't care if I'm in the nosebleeds, I'm there!

Yeah, I read that Arum wants to bring Pacquiao there, that would be cool.

I think that what Floyd said was to be expected. The press was not going to sit back and wait for him to come out and give his thoughts. They were trying to get a hold of him right after the fight. You know, Floyd has been a lot more respectful of Manny than people give him credit for. He's obviously not going to spend most of his time talking about how great Pacquiao is, but he has always shown Manny respect in terms of what he has accomplished in the sport.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:42 AM
Yeah, I read that Arum wants to bring Pacquiao there, that would be cool.

I think that what Floyd said was to be expected. The press was not going to sit back and wait for him to come out and give his thoughts. They were trying to get a hold of him right after the fight. You know, Floyd has been a lot more respectful of Manny than people give him credit for. He's obviously not going to spend most of his time talking about how great Pacquiao is, but he has always shown Manny respect in terms of what he has accomplished in the sport.
Yeah, and I hope that's something the press will point out. I don't like him (obviously), but I do take note of what he says. I've noticed he has deep respect for Pacquiao and will be evidenced when they step in the ring together. Even in the past, he said Pacquiao is #2 behind himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SwlhBdaoBs

Right now, he's just saying what needs to be said to get the fight going and to get the promoters going. He knows what it takes to make money in this sport and he'll pull out all the stops to make this fight big.

As for Pac, he doesn't need to do anything except the basic publicity. He's always exciting when he's in the ring and I think an underlying factor is how much people like his humility and humbleness. It's incredible he's garnered so much love and attention as a foreigner.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:52 AM
Now, see I will admit that too. I am surprised Manny has been able to get so much attention here in the states. Even after DLH, I still didn't think he would get to this level of popularity. Boxing has always held on to it's sense of nationalism, and I think it's still there, but the lines are definitely getting more blurry than they were in the 70's and 80's.

I think it's a combination of things. Pac is a very marketable guy. Just his image and his style, this helps a lot. Then, of course there is this whole Mayweather hype. People have been talking about this since Manny beat Oscar, then Hatton, and it is the fight that makes most sense. Mayweather is a easy guy to dislike, just because of the flashiness and old school Muhammad Ali style trash talking. Mix it all together and expose it to the general public and this is what you get...

A flurry of water cooler fans hoping on board the Manny wagon and even some of the old schooler's who just can't stand anything with the name Mayweather, and believe me there are a handful of those people. Then you have the actual Mayweather fans, which believe it or not, there IS a lot of. Not to mention the rest of the general Boxing community who wouldn't dare miss this fight even if they hate both men. It has all the ingredients for a super fight of epic proportions.

Neezar
11-17-2009, 04:41 AM
EDIT: Damnit, I spelled "Pacquiao" wrong in the title of the thread, lol

I can fix it for ya. But it will cost you. :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 04:50 AM
I can fix it for ya. But it will cost you. :laugh:
Hey no fair! You already fixed it! That's extortion :laugh:

rearnakedchoke
11-17-2009, 01:49 PM
pac is gonna dodge him saying he wants a 50/50 split when he doesn't deserve it ... and that will be the downfall of this fight ....

logrus
11-17-2009, 02:25 PM
Floyd is gonna dodge him saying he wants a 50/50 split when he doesn't deserve it ... and that will be the downfall of this fight ....

Fixed cause your original comment was more idiotic then anything I could ever hope to muster.

logrus
11-17-2009, 02:31 PM
"Manny Pacquiao is the fighter and every time someone asks him if he wants to fight me, he says it is up to his promoter, he's going to take a vacation, whatever the answer is," Mayweather said. "I have yet to hear him actually say, 'yes I want to fight Mayweather.' We are the fighters and if one fighter is talking about fighting another fighter, then they should just come out and say it. Manny Pacquiao doesn't say anything directly about fighting me because he might just know it's not a fight he can win."

I think Manny has started the mind games early with Floyd and is already using his leverage to gain the better deal for the fight.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 07:01 PM
"Manny Pacquiao is the fighter and every time someone asks him if he wants to fight me, he says it is up to his promoter, he's going to take a vacation, whatever the answer is," Mayweather said. "I have yet to hear him actually say, 'yes I want to fight Mayweather.' We are the fighters and if one fighter is talking about fighting another fighter, then they should just come out and say it. Manny Pacquiao doesn't say anything directly about fighting me because he might just know it's not a fight he can win."

I think Manny has started the mind games early with Floyd and is already using his leverage to gain the better deal for the fight.

Conversely, one could say the same about Floyd, and honestly, everything is a mind game with Floyd, and he is pretty good at it.

To be fair, I will call Floyd out on this one before somebody accuses me of ignoring it... Pacquiao has said the same thing that Floyd has said in the past, and in recent history. Deferring to your handlers as "the people who make your fights" is something that is generally always done by default. It's no different than a guy in the UFC saying it's up to Dana White and Joe Silva who they fight next.

Floyd has deferred to Leonard Ellerbe and his uncle Roger on many occasions in the past, and Manny is doing no different. I don't think for one minute that Floyd actually thinks Manny is scared, he is just trying to get Manny to come back with a response. That's how you hype a fight, and that's why this fight will likely be one of the biggest Boxing matches of all time.

logrus
11-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Conversely, one could say the same about Floyd, and honestly, everything is a mind game with Floyd, and he is pretty good at it.

To be fair, I will call Floyd out on this one before somebody accuses me of ignoring it... Pacquiao has said the same thing that Floyd has said in the past, and in recent history. Deferring to your handlers as "the people who make your fights" is something that is generally always done by default. It's no different than a guy in the UFC saying it's up to Dana White and Joe Silva who they fight next.

Floyd has deferred to Leonard Ellerbe and his uncle Roger on many occasions in the past, and Manny is doing no different. I don't think for one minute that Floyd actually thinks Manny is scared, he is just trying to get Manny to come back with a response. That's how you hype a fight, and that's why this fight will likely be one of the biggest Boxing matches of all time.

True, and I also heard guys except fights and issue them but then those fights never happened or took forever to get done (im drawing a blank on who but it will come to me). I think this is the second time Manny has done this about Floyd.

I think both would be a draw for this fight but I think Manny is the one who deserves more, he is the #1 ranked P4P, a champ of a couple bets lmao and pretty much streamed rolled everyone in every weight class he's chosen o fight in.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 07:57 PM
True, and I also heard guys except fights and issue them but then those fights never happened or took forever to get done (im drawing a blank on who but it will come to me). I think this is the second time Manny has done this about Floyd.

I think both would be a draw for this fight but I think Manny is the one who deserves more, he is the #1 ranked P4P, a champ of a couple bets lmao and pretty much streamed rolled everyone in every weight class he's chosen o fight in.

I don't disagree that Pac has been very impressive recently, but that does not always translate into deserving more dollars. I think it's still a very close call as to who the "bigger" draw is right now and, as I said in the other thread, I think they are both feeding off each other at this point. Six months ago, I would have said Floyd deserves the lion's share but, just based on projected numbers and all the other factors, I think it needs to be a 50/50 split, with a possible win bonus or other incentives.

I realize you don't like Floyd, but the case from his side is a strong one too. People are quick to say Manny was more impressive against Oscar and Ricky, thus he is the better fighter, but that's not really a sound argument, nor does it matter in the scope of where they stand right now or historically in the rankings. It's no different than bringing up the Pacquiao/Marquez fight in 2008. Manny didn't look like the Manny of his last 3 fights, but he still won, and ultimately that is what matters. Floyd will no doubt bring up the Marquez fight, and how easily he handled Marquez. The other side will try to discredit that by bringing up the weight issue. Then Floyd will touch on the fact that Manny has lost and drawn in his career, and he is undefeated. Then the other side will say Floyd's record is padded, which is far from true. Besides, even the deepest of Floyd haters who try to claim his record is padded (usually Mosley fans) will admit that the allure of having an "undefeated" record is one of the most important aspects of what draws the general public into watching a fight.

All of it is bullcrap, and both men have fought top competition in multiple weight classes and been successful. It's an endless circle that only comes back to one logical conclusion, this fight needs to happen. Hopefully it happens soon.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 08:06 PM
We'll talk when they sign to fight and its official.

Pac with stop Mayweather.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 09:21 PM
Negotiations are underway. Right now, it's just head games and each fighter wanting a bigger share of the purse, and there's nothing wrong with that. Both guys stand to make way too much to let it go. Now is the time and the both know it.

It'll likely end up being a 50/50 split or 45/45 + 10 going to the winner. The fight will be made. Mayweather is calling Pacquiao out and Roach is calling out Mayweather. Pac already indirectly called out Mayweather prior to the Cotto bout. It will happen, they both want it, and they're just getting the finishing touches on the contract.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 10:20 PM
Here is another point I thought would be fair to take a look at and think about...

When comparing and contrasting Pac and Floyd's fights with Oscar, Ricky, and Marquez, and looking at the time line of how things have occurred, there are some important things to note.

1. Floyd did look tested in the fight with Oscar in 07, but it was also the biggest fighter Floyd had ever faced in terms of physical size/reach, and the biggest in terms of popularity. Those things certainly play a factor in how someone approaches a fight, even if they end up having little effect on the actual outcome.

2. Floyd beat Hatton very convincingly, and he did TKO him, but he was a lot less active than he was in the De La Hoya fight (by about half the amount of punches, check CompuBox).

3. While Floyd was "retired", Manny did convincingly walk through De La Hoya and Hatton, and by no means would I call them "damaged goods", but it is valid to mention a couple things. Manny was a horrible style match up for De La Hoya in the first place, and we do know Manny was not the fight Oscar really wanted. Then, there is the weight issue, but I don't see that as a real factor. I think De La Hoya was going to get tooled no matter what. He didn't WANT the fight, and Manny is just BETTER. As for Hatton, I think his lack of skills were clearly exposed by both Manny and Floyd, and the chin that was always suspect simply got convicted guilty by both Manny AND Floyd.

4. Manny did have significant problems with Marquez, AGAIN, even though he did almost finish him off early in their 08 fight. When Floyd came back and fought JMM, he looked significantly sharper and much more active than when he fought Hatton. Again, that is not taking anything away from Manny. Most of the fight game is mental, and after the first match with Marquez going to a draw, I think that played a role in how much Marquez wanted the fight. Also, some people do just have that ONE guy that gives them problems, we have seen it time and time again. Still, it is worth noting, because I'm sure Mayweather will be bringing it up, over, and over again. Of course people will try to use weight as an issue in this fight, but I will go back to the same thing I said in point number three. Floyd is just better than JMM, and we all knew it. It's also worth noting that the general way of thinking in today's Boxing world is that ANY fight over 140 is a Welterweight fight.


Now, I am not trying to play into any of the MMA-math style of thought, but rather getting to a greater point. People really give a lot of credit to Manny for how much he has improved the last few years (and they should), but it seems some people tend to use Manny's performances in an effort to discredit Floyd.

Based on what we know, from my points above, it's not out of the question to say that Floyd's game is on the rise as well. He had a tough fight with DLH, but still clearly won. Then looked less active against Hatton, but still TKO'd him. Then after taking the time off to heal his body and his hands, came back and thoroughly dominated Marquez, and he did almost finish him. Again, check the CompuBox numbers for all these fights if your memories elude you on the details, it will support my point.

Is this a new, healthy, Floyd Mayweather who's game is just now starting to flourish at Welterweight? That answer remains to be seen. Food for thought.

logrus
11-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Here is another point I thought would be fair to take a look at and think about...

When comparing and contrasting Pac and Floyd's fights with Oscar, Ricky, and Marquez, and looking at the time line of how things have occurred, there are some important things to note.

1. Floyd did look tested in the fight with Oscar in 07, but it was also the biggest fighter Floyd had ever faced in terms of physical size/reach the biggest in terms of popularity. Those things certainly play a factor in how someone approaches a fight, even if they end up having little effect on the actual outcome.

2. Floyd beat Hatton very convincingly, and he did TKO him, but he was a lot less active than he was in the De La Hoya fight (by about half the amount of punches, check CompuBox).

3. While Floyd was "retired", Manny did convincingly walk through De La Hoya and Hatton, and by no means would I call them "damaged goods", but it is valid to mention a couple things. Manny was a horrible style match up for De La Hoya in the first place, and we do know Manny was not the fight Oscar really wanted. Then there is the weight issue, but I don't see that as a real factor. I think De La Hoya was going to get tooled no matter what. He didn't WANT the fight, and Manny is just BETTER. As for Hatton, I think his lack of skills were clearly exposed by both Manny and Floyd, and the chin that was always suspect simply got convicted guilty by both Manny AND Floyd.

4. Manny did have significant problems with Marquez, AGAIN, even though he did almost finish him off early in their 08 fight. When Floyd came back and fought JMM, he looked significantly sharper and much more active than when he fought Hatton. Again, that is not taking anything away from Manny. Most of the fight game is mental, and after the first match with Marquez going to a draw, I think that played a role in how much Marquez wanted the fight. Also, some people do just have that ONE guy that gives them problems, we have seen it time and time again. Still, it is worth noting, because I'm sure Mayweather will be bringing it up, over, and over again. Of course people will try to use weight as an issue in this fight, but I will go back to the same thing I said in point number three. Floyd is just better than JMM, and we all knew it. It's also worth noting that the general way of thinking in today's Boxing world is that ANY fight over 140 is a Welterweight fight.


Now, I am not trying to play into any of the MMA-math style of thought, but rather getting to a greater point. People really give a lot of credit to Manny for how much he has improved the last few years (and they should), but it seems some people tend to use Manny's performances in an effort to discredit Floyd.

Based on what we know, from my points above, it's not out of the question to say that Floyd's game is on the rise as well. He had a tough fight with DLH, but still clearly won. Then looked less active against Hatton, but still TKO'd him. Then after taking the time off to heal his body and his hands, came back and thoroughly dominated Marquez, and he did almost finish him. Again, check the CompuBox numbers for all these fights if your memories elude you on the details, it will support my point.

Is this a new, healthy, Floyd Mayweather who's game is just now starting to flourish at Welterweight? That answer remains to be seen. Food for thought.


I think Mayweather would have not looked as sharp if he had taken the fight sooner then coming down with the injury.

Manny did have problems with Marq both times really, but Marq vs Manny was a great match up for him then it was for Mayweather. I bet if those 2 fought another time we would be complaining about 3 disputed calls instead of 2.

the Oscar vs Floyd fight gave him troubles because Oscar threw a ton of punches, and not wild but mostly boxing styles setting up different punches and different angles. I think age was OScars worst enemy that fight too because he tired himself out throwing so much. I don't see Manny throwing himself out.

J.B.
11-18-2009, 12:06 AM
I think Mayweather would have not looked as sharp if he had taken the fight sooner then coming down with the injury.

Manny did have problems with Marq both times really, but Marq vs Manny was a great match up for him then it was for Mayweather. I bet if those 2 fought another time we would be complaining about 3 disputed calls instead of 2.

the Oscar vs Floyd fight gave him troubles because Oscar threw a ton of punches, and not wild but mostly boxing styles setting up different punches and different angles. I think age was OScars worst enemy that fight too because he tired himself out throwing so much. I don't see Manny throwing himself out.

On your first point, I am confused...are you saying you think Floyd would have looked worse against Marquez had he fought him right after the Hatton fight? Because if so, I agree. That was part of my point that maybe he needed the time off to recover.

On your second point, I agree completley. I think if Manny and Juan fought again it would be a close fight. Some people just give other people problems, and I said that.

On the third point I agree again. Oscar's age was his worst enemy. I was not trying to compare how Oscar performed against Manny to how Manny would perform against Floyd. I was actually trying to combat that same type of mentality against those who have tried to use Manny's performances to discredit Floyd.

rockdawg21
11-18-2009, 01:10 AM
The best thing to happen to Pac was the 2nd fight with Marquez. Pac was faster, stronger, and the more powerful puncher and Marquez gave Pac all he could handle. Since that fight, Pac hasn't been 100% an offensive fighter, as he had to do a lot of dodging/parrying with Hatton and Cotto. It's really made him more of a complete fighter. Plus, both fighters were on the same playing field, meaning they were in the same weight class, and that does matter.

In the case of Marquez vs. Mayweather. Mayweather proved he still has it, but Marquez did come up in weight by 10% and at age 36, no doubt slowed down his footwork and punching speed. The other thing is that Mayweather is a very defensive-style of fighter and so is Marquez, but Marquez had to go on the offensive, which has never been his style so he was at another disadvantage. Stylistically and size-wise, it was easy to predict Mayweather stomping a mudhole in Marquez' ass in that fight. Mayweather was already the bigger, stronger, and faster fighter, with a much longer reach and Marquez went up in weight by 10% in 3 months and you could easily tell it wasn't muscle.

At the very least, Mayweather proved he still has his defensive skills and it's going to be a handful for anybody to deal with. I think his style is boring as can be, but, the fact is winning on points is still part of boxing.

Mayweather had many problems with Hatton in the early going of the fight, even ducking his upper body through the ropes to avoid the hits he was taking (butthole, lol). Hatton's high pressure was pretty difficult for Mayweather to deal with, but he fought his way through it and scored the TKO with great counter-punching.

Hatton came in with the high-pressure on Pac, but Pac is a power puncher, not a finesse puncher like Mayweather. Easy KO for Pac's style.

MMAth need not apply in boxing either. The next fight will be extremely competitive as both styles are exact opposite of each other. It'll be like seeing a Marquez/Pacquiao matchup, but a larger and significantly improved version of both fighters. An epic in the making!

J.B.
11-18-2009, 01:25 AM
Arrrghhh.. Phoenix Suns time... I will be back later to discuss these recent points....

Neezar
11-18-2009, 02:05 AM
Hey no fair! You already fixed it! That's extortion :laugh:

All is fair in love and internet war. :laugh:

atomdanger
11-18-2009, 04:39 AM
Arrrghhh.. Phoenix Suns time... I will be back later to discuss these recent points....

I have a really good friend that lives in mesa

logrus
11-18-2009, 04:48 AM
On your first point, I am confused...are you saying you think Floyd would have looked worse against Marquez had he fought him right after the Hatton fight? Because if so, I agree. That was part of my point that maybe he needed the time off to recover.

On your second point, I agree completley. I think if Manny and Juan fought again it would be a close fight. Some people just give other people problems, and I said that.

On the third point I agree again. Oscar's age was his worst enemy. I was not trying to compare how Oscar performed against Manny to how Manny would perform against Floyd. I was actually trying to combat that same type of mentality against those who have tried to use Manny's performances to discredit Floyd.

I think he would have looked bad right after Hatton and if his comeback fight wasn't delayed, something tells me Floyd needed a bit more time.

Missed ti when you said it or probably over read it, look we agree cheer up =P

To be honest I think Oscar was pretty much done prior to both his encounters with Manny and Floyd. He was definitely showing signs of wear and tear in his previous fights even though he didnt fight much anymore.

Floyd said Oscar was tough cause he threw so much, and he said Hatton was tough because he kept on coming. In that sense were pretty much talking about Manny and his style.

Floyd should be worried :punch:

J.B.
11-18-2009, 05:54 AM
Floyd should be worried :punch:

I am with you on the Oscar talk completely, but as to IF Floyd needs to be worried...

:rolleyes:

Okay, well, we'll see.

J.B.
11-18-2009, 05:55 AM
I have a really good friend that lives in mesa

Don't send him to beat me up. That would really mess up my schedule,:laugh:

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 12:17 AM
Simple Manny, he kills me! :laugh:

http://fighthype.com/pages/content6269.html

MANNY PACQUIAO: "FOR THE RECORD, YEAH!"
By Ben Thompson | November 18, 2009

Los Angeles TV station KTLA was on hand yesterday at Manny Pacquiao's official victory party at The Highlands in Hollywood, California. With the boxing world buzzing about a potential showdown with Floyd Mayweather Jr., Pacquiao was asked whether or not he wanted to face the undefeated multi-division champion in his next bout. His reply was simple, "For the record, yeah!"

Mayweather recently questioned whether or not the Filipino icon truly wanted to face him, despite the fact that both his promoter Bob Arum and his trainer Freddie Roach have repeatedly stated that Team Pacquiao is open to negotiations. "Tell Manny Pacquiao to be his own man stop letting everyone, including his loud-mouth trainer, talk for him. If Manny Pacquiao wants to fight me, all he has to do is step up to the plate and say it himself," stated Mayweather.

Well Floyd, there you go! Manny Pacquiao has, for the record, stepped up to the plate. Now, before any of you get too excited and start thinking this means the two sides will rush into negotiations, keep in mind that we'll have to wait for Floyd's response to this latest development. I get the feeling it will sound something like, "Like I said before, he didn't say my name! He didn't say my name! If he wants to get his ass tore up by Floyd Mayweather, tell him to say, 'I want to fight Floyd Mayweather.' Tell him to say my name. I want to hear my name come out of his mouth!"

With the juvenile back-and-forth that Floyd has already begun in the media, it's a wonder if negotiations will ever get off the ground.

Floyd sure is pissy about this. I think it's funny, it's almost like Manny is playing head games with Floyd, but Manny's just being Manny.

J.B.
11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
Simple Manny, he kills me! :laugh:

http://fighthype.com/pages/content6269.html



Floyd sure is pissy about this. I think it's funny, it's almost like Manny is playing head games with Floyd, but Manny's just being Manny.

I don't think he really seems any more "pissy" than usual. Just sounds like typical back and fourth hype to me.

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 12:42 AM
I don't think he really seems any more "pissy" than usual. Just sounds like typical back and fourth hype to me.
Yeah, but it sounds like he's being a whiny baby, "Why won't he just say my name, wuhuhuhu!!!!!" :laugh:

VCURamFan
11-19-2009, 12:51 AM
Yeah, but it sounds like he's being a whiny baby, "Why won't he just say my name, wuhuhuhu!!!!!" :laugh:
OK, you realize that Floyd didn't actually say that, right? The article says:

I get the feeling it will sound something like, "Like I said before, he didn't say my name! He didn't say my name! If he wants to get his ass tore up by Floyd Mayweather, tell him to say, 'I want to fight Floyd Mayweather.' Tell him to say my name. I want to hear my name come out of his mouth!"Floyd hasn't responded to this yet.

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 01:42 AM
OK, you realize that Floyd didn't actually say that, right? The article says:

Floyd hasn't responded to this yet.
Oh, guess I overlooked that, lol.

Well, I agree with the writer.

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 01:53 AM
Manny answered! :punch:

http://www.ktla.com/sports/ktla-manny-pacquiao,0,3379169.story
Pacquiao Calls Out Mayweather: "Let's Fight!"

Cher Calvin KTLA News | November 17, 2009

HOLLYWOOD -- The crowd goes crazy for Manny Pacquiao, the best pound for pound boxer in the world. And there's one question everyone is asking: Will Manny Pacquiao fight Floyd Mayweather?

Manny Pacquaio has singlehandedly brought back the passion for boxing. His popularity is so enormous that hundreds of people lined up at the Highlands in Hollywood to get a glimpse of him at his victory party Tuesday night.

Pacquaio gained notoriety after knocking out Oscar de la Hoya last May. After his win on Saturday against Miguel Cotto, a 12th round knockout, everyone is calling for a Floyd Mayweather Jr. -- Manny Paquiao bout. Mayweather is calling out Pacquaio in this statement he made Monday.

"If Manny Pacquiao wants to fight me, all he has to do is step up to the plate and say it himself," Mayweather said.

So I asked Pacquaio to answer Mayweather, before anyone else talked to him. "Yes, I want to fight Mayweather," he told KTLA

Fans are demanding to see the two boxers battle it out.

The fight the world wants to see between Mayweather and Pacquaio could generate more money on pay per view with estimates over $120 million alone.

Pacquaio has made history by being the only boxer to win 7 titles in 7 weight classes. Mayweather has a perfect record. This highly anticipated bout, if it were to happen, would have to take place in a super bowl sized venue like Giants or Yankees Stadium.

Pacquiao says he's ready for it.

Will Floyd step up to the plate and accept the challenge like he claims when he says "If he want it, he can get it too." or is he just going to fight bums in the UK:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content6270.html
Forget what you've heard about a potential mega-fight between multi-division champion Floyd Mayweather Jr. and pound-for-pound champion Manny Pacquiao. Sources close to the information have informed us that Mayweather, who's been seen working out at his Las Vegas gym more than usual lately, already has a fight date lined up in the UK. According to one source, the three potential opponents in consideration are former welterweight champion Carlos Quintana, welterweight contender Matthew Hatton or jr. welterweight contender Dmitriy Salita.

Although fans assume a mega-fight with Pacquiao is on the horizon, our sources inform us that Mayweather is anticipating negotiations to take quite some time before both sides reach an agreement, therefore, the undefeated fighter has decided to to take another "tune-up" bout in order to stay sharp. "He wants to stay busy," another source remarked. [JUST MAKE THE DAMN FIGHT AND THROW YOUR STUPID BOXING POLITICS OUT THE DOOR ALREADY!]

Although no date was given, this isn't the first time that rumors of Floyd fighting in the UK have surfaced. "My ultimate goal is to fight in the UK eventually. That's always been one of my dreams to come over to the UK to display my skills and display my talent for the fans all around the world, but especially for the fans in the UK," Mayweather stated in a recent interview with Sky Sports. When asked about the possibility of going on a world tour and fighting in different countries, Mayweather continued, "I'm talking with my team about that. That's in the future, absolutely."

As for the opponents being considered, undefeated jr. welterweight Dmitriy Salita (30-0-1, 16KOs) is currently set to face WBA jr. welterweight champion Amir Khan on December 5th, welterweight contender Matthew Hatton (37-4-2, 14KOs) is coming off a tough draw against Lovemore Ndou this past Friday and former welterweight champion Carlos Quintana (34-2, 27KOs) is tentatively scheduled to appear on the December 5th undercard of Paul Williams vs. Sergio Martinez.

Personally, I sincerely hope that what we were told isn't true, but our sources are extremely reliable. Calls placed to Mayweather Promotions CEO Leonard Ellerbe have gone unanswered, but something tells me that I'll be hearing from him real soon once news of this story reaches him.

Then you got Floyd Sr. still accusing Manny of doping although Manny's had 10 fights in Las Vegas since 2002 and they test fighters before their bout:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/11/18/pacquiao-cotto/
Talks of megafight heat up, with Floyd Sr. taking first jabs

This article appears in the November 23, 2009 issue of Sports Illustrated.

Hanging from a building directly across the street from Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland is a Nike billboard 10 stories high bearing a huge image of Cavaliers star LeBron James with the words we are all witnesses at the top. The message: Go on in, and watch a legend in the making. Well, the apparel giant may want to construct a similar billboard of one of its newer clients,

Manny Pacquiao, and put it up on every building he fights in. Because history, you see, is happening right now.

Last Saturday night in Las Vegas, in front of 16,200 fans at the MGM Grand, Pacquiao dismantled Miguel Cotto to win the WBO welterweight championship with a 12th-round TKO. The victory, his 50th in 55 fights, gave the 30-year-old Pacquiao a title in a record-setting seventh weight class. "I've been around Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler and Sugar Ray Leonard," says Pacquiao's promoter, Bob Arum. "Manny Pacquiao is the best fighter I've ever seen."

Saturday's bout was expected to be the toughest test of Pacquiao's 14-year career. He would be fighting at his heaviest weight, 144 pounds, against a natural welterweight widely regarded as the division's best. Cotto, 29, brought a record of 34-1 (27 KOs) and a reputation for durability.

With trainer Freddie Roach (dubbed "my master" by Pacquiao during the week) dictating the game plan from the corner, Pacquiao rained punches on Cotto that seemed to emanate from all angles. He dropped an off-balance Cotto with a chopping right in the third round and sent him down again in the fourth with a left to his jaw. While a game Cotto responded with everything in his considerable arsenal -- including a left hook that snapped Pacquiao's head back in the third -- he could do little to stave off Pacquiao's assault.

By the ninth round Cotto's face was swollen and he was spitting blood; by the 10th he was in full retreat -- his corner almost threw in the towel -- and by the 12th a once bloodthirsty crowd was pleading for a stoppage. When Pacquiao drove Cotto to the ropes with another left, referee Kenny Bayless jumped in to wave the fight over with 2:05 remaining. "He was a lot faster than we thought," says Cotto's trainer, Joe Santiago. "A lot stronger too."

Basking in the present is a luxury afforded to no champion. Even before Pacquiao stepped out of the ring on Saturday he was asked whom he would face when he stepped back in. The first name to come up: Floyd Mayweather Jr. "We'll take the best deal out there," says Roach. "But personally I want Mayweather."

While a fight between Pacquiao and the unbeaten, five-weight-class world champion is a natural fit, there are no guarantees. There is a river of bad blood between Arum and Mayweather that flows from their ugly split in 2006. Then there is the money: Industry sources say a Pacquiao-Mayweather matchup could generate $80 million, but Mayweather has insisted he should get the larger share while Pacquiao's camp won't budge off of a 50-50 split. "Both sides need to look at the big picture," says HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg. "That's a boatload of cash and a fight that America wants." Arum, for the moment, agrees: "If [Mayweather] wants to fight Manny Pacquiao, he can call me."

The showdown, should it happen, could come as soon as early May. But Mayweather has long been criticized for avoiding the most challenging opponents, and already some in his camp appear to be looking for ways out of the bout. Mayweather's father, Floyd Sr., told SI he would advise his son not to face Pacquiao, saying that he believed Pacquiao's ability to absorb Cotto's shots and keep coming is proof that Pacquiao is taking performance-enhancing substances -- an accusation for which he had no proof. "I know Floyd is the best," says Mayweather Sr. "But when [your opponent] uses something illegal, even the best can get hurt."

Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada Athletic Commission, says there is no evidence Pacquiao is using steroids. Nevada rules, which have been in place since 2002, require fighters to submit urine samples before every fight. Those samples are tested for 40 kinds of steroids, diuretics and masking agents. Pacquiao, who has fought in Las Vegas 10 times since '02, has never tested positive. Pacquiao's conditioning coach, Alex Ariza, says the only substances Pacquiao took leading up to the fight were whey protein and liver-support supplements, while consuming a 6,500-calories-per-day diet.

Such controversy seems to bounce off Pacquiao. Humbled by poor beginnings in the Philippines, he still views himself as the reckless puncher who walked into Freddie Roach's Los Angeles gym eight years ago looking for a trainer. At the postfight press conference Pacquiao stood at a podium and declared himself "an ordinary fighter."

"You're not ordinary," Roach interrupted.

Pausing, his face reddening and then creasing with a shy smile, Pacquiao turned to Roach. "OK," he said. "Sorry about that, Master."

Scared much Floyd Sr.? :laugh:

J.B.
11-19-2009, 02:45 AM
Well, be fair Rock...

Floyd Sr is not the only one accusing Manny of doping. Kermit Cintron, and now Paul Malignaggi have both come out and said they think something is up with Manny, and word around the water-cooler is that they are not the only ones who think that in the boxing world, though many people would never make that accusation openly without any concrete evidence.

Also, Floyd Sr. has still said numerous times that he thinks Floyd Jr. would beat Manny. I think he may see Manny as a threat, and for good reason, but I think he really believes in his head that Pac is on roids. Remember, he was hinting at it a while ago when the talk of Floyd vs Manny wasn't really in the foreground of discussion, granted it had been mentioned, but it was not imminent at the time.

As for the idea of Floyd Jr taking a "tune-up" fight, I really don't think it's gonna happen, but it won't be a surprise if it does. Lots of times these kind of rumors are leaked out to make the other side more open to negotiation. Bob Arum wants this fight as much as Golden Boy does, and they ALL know that there is a lot of money at stake here. If Arum is trying to stonewall them on the negotiations , this is a way of getting him to give in. They will likely wait a little bit, and let the rumors fly while they try to come to a reasonable agreement. Unfortunately for the fans, when you talk about a fight of this magnitude there are more people involved than just the fighters. Sure, Floyd Jr DOES love making lots of money and he makes no secret of that, but Bob Arum is an old dog and he has been responsible for messing up negotiations in more than one big fight over the years, Arum has even admitted it. I know that we as fans just want them to "make the fight", but it's not always that simple. That goes for Boxing or MMA.

Richard Shaefer from Golden Boy was talking about trying to set up a Mexico city fight with Saul Alvarez a while back, but nothing was ever confirmed from the Mayweather camp that they were actually considering it and there was a lot of backlash and hub-bub over what was essentially just smoke. A fight in the UK would do a lot for putting the bargaining power back in Floyd's hand if he were to be impressive, and he certainly would be appeasing the critics who have been claiming that he needs to fight a "real" welterweight.

However, Floyd also knows that no matter who he fights next, if his name is NOT Manny Pacquaio, the casual fans are going to put all the blame squarely in his lap. I think at this point, it would take a total meltdown in negotiations for Floyd or Manny to actually consider fighting anybody else but each other.

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 02:55 AM
Yeah, but it's just jealous talk IMO. Manny's been tested by arguably the best doping agency on the planet and nothing's come of it. His fight with Hatton was in Vegas and now Cotto (it'll be a few days before the results of the test come back), but it's just ridiculous that all these jealous guys are saying that stuff.

http://fastmusclegain.com/

This is the guy that gave me the advice I've used for years to gain muscle/lose fat. In college, I followed his free advice and managed to pile on about 60 pounds in 3 years. Granted, it's not 32 in 16 weeks the way he did, but some people are just fortunate enough to have enough Type II-B muscle fibers to really stimulate growth and it appears Manny does as well. Few people truly understand it. Manny obviously still has a very nice amount of natural growth hormone in his body. It usually starts to taper around 30 years old, but Manny's not a drinker, nor does he abuse his body, so I'd imagine he's doing extremely well to stay youthful and his body is just responding. It's also possible that Manny is hitting adulthood which can cause a natural filling in the body and stimulate further growth. Of course, Manny is like Floyd where he doesn't get out of shape, so that would definitely help with regards to keeping growth hormone levels elevated.

People on the philboxing.com forum are telling Manny he should sue Floyd Sr. for defamation of character, lol. I don't think Manny cares. When first accused, he just said something like, "I don't even know what a steroid is. Maybe they're taking steroids." :laugh:

J.B.
11-19-2009, 03:12 AM
Well, Manny is a public figure, so the only way he could win any sort of defamation suit is if what was said actually caused harm. It's very hard for public figures to sue when people say stuff about them, very hard.

It may be ridiculous, and believe me, I don't think Manny is on roids. However, there have been some valid questions raised, and it's a pretty hot button issue these days. Also, let's be honest, it's not like people can't pass their drug tests when they are on the stuff. There are so many different types of drugs out there, people are finding new ways to get an edge all the time.

The biggest thing that surprises people has been his ability to come up so much in weight and not only not lose any speed or power at all but he actually seems faster and stronger. What I think some people fail to acknowledge when making those points is that there really is a lot of other things to account for as well. Such as the fact that Manny's technique has really improved as well. Or that the fighters he has faced recently were not speed guys by any stretch of the imagination.

rockdawg21
11-19-2009, 03:37 AM
It's just jealousy really. Few people work their ass off and most people are just lazy in comparison to that of an elite athlete or even just health-minded individuals in general.

I hear ya, but the thing is that Manny is doing compound progressive weight training in combination with his boxing. He's eating the right amount of calories to trigger growth while minimizing fat gain. He's obviously gaining a bit because in between fights, he does have to cut down the fat a little bit, but most people just really fail to understand what he's doing. When people say "he's the smaller fighter", well, an unnatural counterpart is almost always stronger than a natural counterpart when they are at the same weight, simply because the "smaller" person had to do compound progressive weight training just to gain the weight. It's evident in the sheer fact that Manny's hips are smaller than his opponents, yet his chest, legs, arms, etc. are just as big or bigger. Meaning, he has a smaller bone structure, but is carrying just as much or more muscle mass than the guys he's faced recently. This just isn't something that's taught, but if you speak to a body builder about it, the would completely understand the concept. Hope that makes sense, lol

J.B.
11-19-2009, 04:05 AM
It's just jealousy really. Few people work their ass off and most people are just lazy in comparison to that of an elite athlete or even just health-minded individuals in general.

I hear ya, but the thing is that Manny is doing compound progressive weight training in combination with his boxing. He's eating the right amount of calories to trigger growth while minimizing fat gain. He's obviously gaining a bit because in between fights, he does have to cut down the fat a little bit, but most people just really fail to understand what he's doing. When people say "he's the smaller fighter", well, an unnatural counterpart is almost always stronger than a natural counterpart when they are at the same weight, simply because the "smaller" person had to do compound progressive weight training just to gain the weight. It's evident in the sheer fact that Manny's hips are smaller than his opponents, yet his chest, legs, arms, etc. are just as big or bigger. Meaning, he has a smaller bone structure, but is carrying just as much or more muscle mass than the guys he's faced recently. This just isn't something that's taught, but if you speak to a body builder about it, the would completely understand the concept. Hope that makes sense, lol

I am not a body builder, but I think I have a firm grasp on the point you are making. However, I think the same can be said both ways when talking about natural counterparts against unnatural counterparts, it really just depends on who you are talking about. I think what is most shocking about Manny is that most fighters who come up in weight like he has just don't retain their speed, to which it is arguable that Manny looks faster now than ever before.

Like I said, I don't think that Manny is on steroids, but in today's sports world people are quick to be suspicious when guys start performing at high levels later in their career.

rockdawg21
11-20-2009, 12:25 AM
This is kind of a side note in case the fight with Mayweather & Pac doesn't mature, Yuri Foreman gave an invite for Pac to try for an 8th title at 154 pounds:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/7443/yuri-foreman-would-happy-give-pacquiao-crack-title/
Yuri Foreman Would Be Happy To Give Pacquiao Crack At Title No. 8

By Michael Woods

Americans aren't a culture known for their proficiency at smelling the roses. We are a forward looking bunch, barely able to exult for a nominal length of time before we are proceeding to formulations for what comes next. Perhaps it is our system of capitalism which solidifies this tendency.

Great, Mr CEO, you made oodles of money this quarter. What about the next quarter? You have to top it!

We've all seen where that mindset has gotten us. That doesn't mean we will change our habits, though.

In sports, we tend to act in the same fashion. The confetti was still dandruff in Jeter's hair as reporters asked him about who the Yanks should re-sign next year.

But Yuri Foreman seemed to be doing a fine job of living in the moment, exulting in the aroma of his championship effort which came on Saturday night in Las Vegas. The Belarussian/Israeli/Brooklyner wore the mark of a man who'd engaged in combat, as 18 stitches on his left eye and a black mark on his right told anyone who saw the beaming pugilist at Prime Grill in New York City on Thursday that he earned his right to smile from ear to ear.

Foreman, who is studying to be a rabbi, sat with rabbi DovBer Pinson and spiritual advisor Joel Lion at the restaurant, but right next to Foreman was the man he referred to as "my second rabbi," promoter Bob Arum. The promoter broke into a grin about as often as Foreman as he chatted with reporters with fierce pride about the 29-year-old Foreman's unanimous decision win over WBA junior middleweight titlist Daniel Santos on the Pacman-Cotto undercard. Clearly, this win was just as sweet, maybe sweeter for Arum, than Pacquiao's mixed blessing win against Cotto. Both of those men are contracted to Top Rank, so one's victory means a tumble in stature for the other. But really, the Foreman win was a bit more than business for Arum, I believe. For the 77-year-old dealmaker, a Jewish American, Foreman's win had to strike him from a different angle.

Jews have to do a lot of counterpunching in many parts of the world, our own melting pot included, and so over the years Arum has had to combat anti-semitic volleys from haters. One can infer that he feels an immense personal pride as one from his tribe overcame a pronounced lack of pop and sniping from critics who called him "Yuri Boreman" and recommended him as a cure for insomnia to become the first Israeli to win a world title.

"I'm carrying the flag right now for Israel," said Foreman before he tucked into a plate at the restaurant. "It's been a dream of mine since I was ten to win a world title."

The kid has to get props for his perseverance, if nothing else. He started training in an Arab gym in Israel--talk about throwing yourself into a lion's den. No, there was no shortage of willing sparring partners looking to "help" Foreman learn the finer points of pugilism. He turned pro in January 2002, and was brought along skillfully, but slowly, to the point where critics started to multiply. They'd grouse that he was more story than anything, that he built a glossy record on a weak foundation of journeymen. The critics had a point; his stiffest test before Santos was Andrey Tsurkan, and that was a split decision victory. But the turtle-paced buildup and sniping is old news now. Foreman can point to the belt at the "Boreman" brigade, and inform them, if he chooses to score a verbal counter, that a fight with Manny Pacquiao might be in the cards for 2010.

"I would love to fight Manny Pacquiao," Foreman told TSS. "I would give Pacman the opportunity to fight for his eighth title. I have mad respect for Pacquiao and think he's one of the best fighters ever. I haven't had a chance to talk to Bob Arum about it, but I will."

In fact, half an hour later, Arum talked about the potential for a Foreman-Pacquiao scrap. The promoter said he'd like Foreman to defend his crown a couple times, and then maybe entice Pacman to look for that eighth crown.

Arum blessed the meal before everyone tucked into steak, chicken and salmon. No word on whether he said a silent prayer that the numbers rolling in from Saturday's PPV would be adding to his glow. The promoter would be heading over to HBO's office a few blocks away after the meal to get some returns on PPV numbers. He'll hope that the numbers bolster leverage for he and Pacquiao, as the dance to make Pacquiao-Mayweather kicks off in earnest. If Pacquiao-Cotto does better business than Mayweather-Marquez, which did one million buys after expectations were in the 600-700,000 range, Arum and Pacquaio are in that much better shape. That tally came after an immense ad blitz, something in the neighborhood of $10 million, which is believed to be far in excess of money spent to plug Pacman-Cotto. There have been phone calls between the expected players, Arum, Richard Schaefer, Al Hayman and Leonard Ellerbe, but everyone's waiting to see the numbers before they start posturing. And, there will be posturing on both sides. Everyone talks about Mayweather's, but Pacman has his own pride and ego which will have to be attended to. Also, Freddie Roach has grown into a skilled negotiator, and will put his stamp on the formulation of terms. Will he be willing to accept even a 50-50 deal now that Pacquiao is armed with more leverage than Mayweather?

Back to Foreman, in the vein of what we touched on before, savoring the moment. Much credit for the Santos win has to be attributed to the behind the scenes work of the Top Rank staff. They lobbied hard for Foreman to rise in the WBA's ranks, so Foreman could emerge as a mandatory challenger for Santos. They realized that Santos would be not a soft touch, but certainly in a less than ideal place mentally and physically come fight time. Now 34, the Don King fighter had been on a one-fight-per-year run since 2005. He hadn't gloved up since July 2008, and rust, one imagined, could lessen his chances against the sweet science student with the above-average chin, Foreman. A few months back, Top Ranks' Carl Moretti went to Panama with two envelopes to enter a purse bid for Santos-Foreman.

"I had two envelopes in case someone else showed up," Moretti told TSS at the restaurant. "No one did."

The winning envelope contained a check for $162,500. Not a grandiose sum, but one that reflected the marketplace. Santos was a part-time fighter with a minimal fanbase, and Foreman had a compelling, novel back-story, but he needed to offer a showing which would appeal to more hardcore fight fans, not the casual sports fan intrigued by his "Lion of Zion" persona. Arum placated anyone referring to the writers who dismissed the sleep-inducing potential of the matchup by assuring that the human interest stories on Foreman would help the overall promotion.

The reviews weren't across the board raves, but to me, Foreman fought smartly and with enough aggression to win a healthy bunch of the unconvinced. Scuttlebutt has said that we'll see him tangle with another King fighter, Cory Spinks, who holds the IBF junior middleweight strap. Nope-- Moretti shot that down, saying another negotiation with King isn't a welcome prospect. So, Spinks is out, who then? Kermit Cintron is a possible, as is WBO champ Sergei Dzinziruk, or Pole Pawel Wolak. Moretti said he wouldn't hesitate to make Paul Williams-Foreman, either. Moretti said that he think Foreman might become even more of a fan-friendly hitter, as a 25% uptick in confidence could make the New York resident more willing to sit down on punches.

SPEEDBAG Puerto Rican fight fans are somewhat adrift with Cotto's demise at the hands of the typhoonesque Pacquaio. Miguel said he'd be back, but there are no guarantees, so more eyes will be trained on next gen hitter Juan Manuel Lopez, the WBO featherweight titlist. He was life and death with Rogers Mtagwa on Oct. 10, and left Madison Sguare Garden Theater with a win, just barely. Next up for 27-0 JuanMa is a Jan. 23 date, again at the Theater. He'll defend his crown against the former WBO featherweight champ Steven Luevano, a fellow lefty and a 37-1 slickee with minimal pop (15 KOs). Yuriorkis Gamboa (16-0) will again share the bill with JuanMa, as they did in October. The Cuban will take on Mtagwa (26-13), and look to blow him out, to provide a stark contrast to JuanMa, who needed luck and prayers to stave off an upset loss.

atomdanger
11-20-2009, 03:09 AM
Sad sad stuff.

There is no reason for either of these guys to fight anybody else right now.

rearnakedchoke
11-20-2009, 02:46 PM
Sad sad stuff.

There is no reason for either of these guys to fight anybody else right now.

i agree, but if manny can get another big win and title, he will have better bargaining chips on the table to get the 50/50 split he wants ... but i still don't think he deserves it ...

logrus
11-20-2009, 03:15 PM
i agree, but if manny can get another big win and title, he will have better bargaining chips on the table to get the 50/50 split he wants ... but i still don't think he deserves it ...

and why not? If anything Floyd needs something better on the table then what hes done in the past 2 years;

rearnakedchoke
11-20-2009, 05:10 PM
and why not? If anything Floyd needs something better on the table then what hes done in the past 2 years;

well, considering he was retired for the past two years .. who do you think would make more money if lennox came out of retirement to fight for the title, him or one of the klitchkos?

atomdanger
11-20-2009, 06:05 PM
i agree, but if manny can get another big win and title, he will have better bargaining chips on the table to get the 50/50 split he wants ... but i still don't think he deserves it ...

Yeah, but anytime two guys take different fights they risk losing.
One of them loses and they lost the biggest payday and PPV maybe ever?
This fight would be HUGE.

J.B.
11-20-2009, 07:31 PM
and why not? If anything Floyd needs something better on the table then what hes done in the past 2 years;

Who else would Floyd have fought when he left? Mosley? Cotto?

When Floyd decided to leave the sport he needed the time off to heal. Not to mention that neither of those two were at a point where they deserved the money Golden Boy or Top Rank were asking for. Floyd made a couple attempts to have a fight with Mosley and things fell through. After all the hoopla, trash talking, and the fact that Mosley is an admitted cheater, I don't blame Floyd for not letting Mosley cash in on Mayweather's name.

Same thing for Cotto. People barely knew who Miguel Cotto was 3 years ago, then everybody started acting like he was on another level and the only reason Floyd retired was to duck him. What people fail to realize is that Floyd desperately tried to make a fight against Cotto before the fight with Baldomir. Floyd knew he was an upcoming star and thought he would be a good test for him at Welterweight. Bob Arum said absolutely not because he knew Floyd would beat his ass and they wanted to keep hyping Cotto until the time was right. Again, when Floyd retired, he had nothing to prove, and he needed the time off after going non-stop since 87.

You keep trying to suggest that Floyd needs to prove himself worthy to fight Manny, and the whole idea is laughable at best. If Floyd did take another fight before fighting Manny and won by KO, people would still find a way to spin the situation into something negative about Floyd.

J.B.
11-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Yeah, but anytime two guys take different fights they risk losing.
One of them loses and they lost the biggest payday and PPV maybe ever?
This fight would be HUGE.

We all know that.

Still, that is the two sides of the coin in this sport. This fight is on tap to be a record breaking PPV, but the longer they drag it out, the more money it stands to be worth.

Yeah, a loss by either man would let the "air out of the balloon" so to speak, but that's why you wont hear about either one of them facing any seriously threatening competition during this time.

atomdanger
11-20-2009, 09:38 PM
Bob Arum says Pacquiao vs Mayweather Won't Happen: According to Hall of Famer Bob Arum, the Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight won’t happen after all. On Thursday, Arum stated that Pac-Man’s desire to fight Mayweather is not enough to get Money Mayweather to step into the ring with the reigning pound-for-pound king.

According to Arum, the American might not want to fight the (50-3-2) Filipino simply to not tarnish his “perfect” 40-0 record. "He is afraid, terrified of losing that zero," Arum said. "That's why he's ducked (Shane) Mosley, Bob Arum says Pacquiao vs Mayweather Won't Happen(Antonio) Margarito and Cotto, and the question is will he duck Manny Pacquiao because he's so afraid of losing that zero."

atomdanger
11-20-2009, 09:38 PM
"But you have to understand Mayweather's psyche," Arum told reporters. "Psychologically he may not be prepared to do this fight… Now this is me being an amateur psychologist, but Mayweather is so tied up with the fact that nobody has beaten him, that he has a zero on his record, I don't know if he would be willing to go into the ring with anybody that could jeopardize that zero.”

But what does the 7-time champ think about all this back-and-forth with the Mayweathers and the possibility of this fight ever concretizing? "We are not pushing the fight,” Pacquiao told the Inquirer newspaper. “He should be the first to challenge me, after all I got a higher pay-per-view from my fight."

logrus
11-20-2009, 10:45 PM
Who else would Floyd have fought when he left? Mosley? Cotto?

When Floyd decided to leave the sport he needed the time off to heal. Not to mention that neither of those two were at a point where they deserved the money Golden Boy or Top Rank were asking for. Floyd made a couple attempts to have a fight with Mosley and things fell through. After all the hoopla, trash talking, and the fact that Mosley is an admitted cheater, I don't blame Floyd for not letting Mosley cash in on Mayweather's name.

Same thing for Cotto. People barely knew who Miguel Cotto was 3 years ago, then everybody started acting like he was on another level and the only reason Floyd retired was to duck him. What people fail to realize is that Floyd desperately tried to make a fight against Cotto before the fight with Baldomir. Floyd knew he was an upcoming star and thought he would be a good test for him at Welterweight. Bob Arum said absolutely not because he knew Floyd would beat his ass and they wanted to keep hyping Cotto until the time was right. Again, when Floyd retired, he had nothing to prove, and he needed the time off after going non-stop since 87.

You keep trying to suggest that Floyd needs to prove himself worthy to fight Manny, and the whole idea is laughable at best. If Floyd did take another fight before fighting Manny and won by KO, people would still find a way to spin the situation into something negative about Floyd.

No I am saying prove why Manny does not deserve a 50/50 split or a bit more then Floyd.

J.B.
11-20-2009, 11:48 PM
No I am saying prove why Manny does not deserve a 50/50 split or a bit more then Floyd.

I agree on the 50/50 split idea, but I don't think Manny deserves more than Floyd based on a few KO's. They are BOTH feeding this frenzy and Mayweather is still a huge draw. I mean, really, this whole hype would be nothing without BOTH of them being who they are today, so I think 50/50 is fair, with a possible win bonus of like 10%.

In the other thread you said you didn't think Floyd deserved to fight the "champion", so that's were I thought you were going with this, my bad.

J.B.
11-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Bob Arum says Pacquiao vs Mayweather Won't Happen: According to Hall of Famer Bob Arum, the Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight won’t happen after all. On Thursday, Arum stated that Pac-Man’s desire to fight Mayweather is not enough to get Money Mayweather to step into the ring with the reigning pound-for-pound king.

According to Arum, the American might not want to fight the (50-3-2) Filipino simply to not tarnish his “perfect” 40-0 record. "He is afraid, terrified of losing that zero," Arum said. "That's why he's ducked (Shane) Mosley, Bob Arum says Pacquiao vs Mayweather Won't Happen(Antonio) Margarito and Cotto, and the question is will he duck Manny Pacquiao because he's so afraid of losing that zero."

"But you have to understand Mayweather's psyche," Arum told reporters. "Psychologically he may not be prepared to do this fight… Now this is me being an amateur psychologist, but Mayweather is so tied up with the fact that nobody has beaten him, that he has a zero on his record, I don't know if he would be willing to go into the ring with anybody that could jeopardize that zero.”

But what does the 7-time champ think about all this back-and-forth with the Mayweathers and the possibility of this fight ever concretizing? "We are not pushing the fight,” Pacquiao told the Inquirer newspaper. “He should be the first to challenge me, after all I got a higher pay-per-view from my fight."

LOL

Bob Arum is such a tool. Notice, the only ZERO he talks about is the one that sits in Mayweather's loss column, and not the amount of zero's he is willing to give up (from his OWN pockets) to get Floyd to agree to a deal. The guy is a slime ball, like most promoters. Bob Arum is basically just a white version of Don King, but even more sleazy. He has been a huge part of the sport, and he's done some good, but at the same time, we know he is crooked as hell. Why would Arum actually WORRY about one of his fighters getting challenged? He knows he can just buy off the judges if he needs to, he's done it before. Even Dana White thinks Bob Arum is a scumbag, that outta tell you something, lol....

Yeah, Floyd likes being undefeated, who wouldn't. But don't be fooled by Bob Arum's tactics, Floyd has no problem fighting guys who could hand him a loss, especially when the price is right. Seriously, Arum is going to have to do better than that if he thinks the serious Boxing fans are going to buy into his bulls**t. The only way this fight doesn't happen is if Bob Arum stands in the way, and it looks like he is already trying to do that. He has a real personal dislike for Floyd, just like other fighters who dumped him on his ass and now he is going to try and stonewall the Mayweather camp by offering a deal that is probably ridiculously lop-sided towards Manny.

Notice Bob Arum fails to mention that Floyd called Mosley out twice in the past and only when Mayweather had a bigger payday on the table did he pass on fighting Shane, and he also fails to mention that Mosley is an ADMITTED steroid user who was doping to get ready against De La Hoya and then got outed in the Balco investigation. You would think Arum would mention Mosleys steroids against DLH if he is gonna bring Mosley up. Why not? Arum was Oscar's promoter at the time. He had no problem s**tting all over Mosley then, but now it's fine to use Mosley's name to try and discredit Floyd, another guy Arum don't like.

Notice Arum doesn't mention that he turned down a fight against Mayweather offered to Miguel Cotto because he wanted to shelter Cotto and keep hyping him up (even though he lies about it to this day)

Arum can suck it.

logrus
11-21-2009, 06:43 AM
I agree on the 50/50 split idea, but I don't think Manny deserves more than Floyd based on a few KO's. They are BOTH feeding this frenzy and Mayweather is still a huge draw. I mean, really, this whole hype would be nothing without BOTH of them being who they are today, so I think 50/50 is fair, with a possible win bonus of like 10%.

In the other thread you said you didn't think Floyd deserved to fight the "champion", so that's were I thought you were going with this, my bad.

Well I still don't think he's earned a shot at Manny yet based on a 2yr layoff and a joke of a return match. I felt the same way about Randy's return to face Timmy even though I hated Timmy,

Right now I still think Manny is worth more then Floyd is. More Ko's more wins, has moved up in weight to take on the best over and over has won what 7 titles and is a current holder. If this was a year ago or Floyd never retired and they met I would say Floyd is the draw and should get more. But a lot has changed in 2 years.

J.B.
11-21-2009, 09:48 AM
Well I still don't think he's earned a shot at Manny yet based on a 2yr layoff and a joke of a return match. I felt the same way about Randy's return to face Timmy even though I hated Timmy,

Right now I still think Manny is worth more then Floyd is. More Ko's more wins, has moved up in weight to take on the best over and over has won what 7 titles and is a current holder. If this was a year ago or Floyd never retired and they met I would say Floyd is the draw and should get more. But a lot has changed in 2 years.

I respect that view totally, even though I don't agree with it. :wink:

rockdawg21
11-23-2009, 10:24 PM
Pac usually doesn't say much about his opponent, but apparently Floyd Sr.'s comments have gotten to him, just extra motivation. Even his wife, Jinkee, sounded-in about the comments.

http://fighthype.com/pages/content6304.html
THE PACQUIAOS WARN THE MAYWEATHERS
By Oliver Suarez | November 23, 2009

In an interview with Jimmy Manicad of GMA News (http://www.gmanews.tv/video/51134/pacquiao-talks-about-politics-career-and-family), Manny Pacquiao admitted that some of the comments from the Mayweather camp have irritated him, specifically Mayweather Sr.'s constant accusations that he is using steroids or some other illegal substance. Although Mayweather Sr. implied that he was merely joking around, Pacquiao, not known for trash talking, issued a stern warning and advice to Mayweather Sr. in his native language, stating, "Siguro sabihan yung anak niya na pag natuloy yung laban naming eh may ano ng kaunti…may hinanakit ng kunti dahil sa pag accuse ng tatay niya sa akin." Loosely translated, Pacquiao said that Floyd Mayweather Sr. should tell his son that if their fight goes through, he now has extra motivation because of the accusations.

There is no doubt that Pacquiao will be more focused and more determined than ever before for his potential clash with Floyd Mayweather Jr. That being said, it was also noted in the interview that many in Pacquiao's camp have already advised him to retire. Fortunately for fans, the newly-crowned WBO welterweight champion is not quite ready to call it quits yet. In fact, his wife, Jinkee Pacquiao, firmly supports her husband's decision to fight on and is confident that he'll be the first to defeat Mayweather. "Maybe one more time and Mayweather's arrogance will end," she stated when asked if she was ready for her husband to retire in a recent interview with Snow Badua of Filipino TV Channel NBN 4. "I am very confident in Manny's fights. I think I'm most confident in this fight with Mayweather," she continued.

With political aspirations on the horizon, however, it seems that a bout with Floyd Mayweather could very well be his last and his impending retirement is not too far off in the future. When that day comes, the sport of boxing and its fans will surely miss him.

J.B.
11-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Pac usually doesn't say much about his opponent, but apparently Floyd Sr.'s comments have gotten to him, just extra motivation. Even his wife, Jinkee, sounded-in about the comments.

http://fighthype.com/pages/content6304.html

Manny should worry about Floyd Jr's skills, not Floyd Sr's mouth.

More media bull crap though. Yeah, Floyd Sr said it, but so have some other people not even connected to the Mayweather camp. The people in the media are going to zoom in on Floyd Sr's comment and use it to keep fueling a war of words. It would be a pitty if another no-name boxing reporter actually went a day without trying to lure us in to clicking on his article with more of the same news.

rockdawg21
12-02-2009, 02:28 AM
Woohoo! It's gettin' close! Time to see Mayweather get KTFO!

BTW, JB, I'll sig bet Pac wins this fight :wink:

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=AskMNjpim8jfJcWITec9sTM5nYcB?slug=ki-floydpac120109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Mayweather-Pacquiao fight nearly finalized

By Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports
1 hour, 23 minutes ago

The much-anticipated bout between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao is all but set for March 13, a source told Yahoo! Sports.

Mayweather has agreed to terms and promoter Bob Arum is making a trip to Manila, Philippines, to finalize a deal with Pacquiao, the source said.

Las Vegas, Dallas and New Orleans are the front-runners to host the bout, which is expected to become the highest-grossing boxing match in the sport’s history.

Pacquiao is the top pound-for-pound fighter in nearly every major ranking, including Yahoo! Sports. Mayweather is No. 2 in most rankings and was No. 1 in nearly all of the polls before he briefly retired in June 2008.

Pacquiao is coming off a 12th-round stoppage of Miguel Cotto on Nov. 14 at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, a bout in which he won the World Boxing Organization welterweight championship and erased fears that he is not a legitimate welterweight.

Cotto was a legitimate welterweight in his prime and Pacquiao dominated, knocking him down twice and cruising to the one-sided victory.

Mayweather routed Juan Manuel Marquez, who had previously been ranked No. 2 in the Yahoo! Sports poll, in a Sept. 19 fight at the MGM Grand.

The public demand for the fight has been enormous, putting pressure on Arum and Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer, who represents Mayweather, to get a deal done.

Promoters had targeted May 1 for the fight almost from the moment that Pacquiao stopped Cotto. But Pacquiao filed Tuesday to run for Congress in the Philippines and the election will be held on May 10.

Given that, the bout with Mayweather had to be moved up to March 13 or pushed back until September.

Though there were reports that Arum was considering matching Pacquiao with new WBO super welterweight champion Yuri Foreman on March 13 in Dallas, that was a diversionary move and was never serious, the source said.

A survey team from Top Rank will inspect Dallas Cowboys Stadium as a possible venue. The MGM Grand Garden Arena and the New Orleans Superdome are also in the running to host the mega-fight, the source said.

rockdawg21
12-02-2009, 02:40 AM
Manny should worry about Floyd Jr's skills, not Floyd Sr's mouth.

More media bull crap though. Yeah, Floyd Sr said it, but so have some other people not even connected to the Mayweather camp. The people in the media are going to zoom in on Floyd Sr's comment and use it to keep fueling a war of words. It would be a pitty if another no-name boxing reporter actually went a day without trying to lure us in to clicking on his article with more of the same news.
The point being with that is unlike most American fighters who would tend to be intimidated by the trash talk coming from Mayweather's camp, it takes on a whole different meaning to a Filipino. Pac just isn't upset about the accusations, he also feels he's defending his honor, his family's honor, and his country's honor. Pac has never talked about harming his opponent, but he's already promised pain for Mayweather due to the accusations from his father:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auJ2R0E--jk&feature=player_embedded#

Translated:
Reporter: Pacman admitted that sometimes the trash talking that Father and Son Mayweathers are saying about him gets to his nerves. Especially when a Sports Illustrated online artcile was released about Mayweather Sr. accusing Pacman of using steroids to enhance his muscles.

Manny: I consulted my attorney about the issue, and he (Mayweather Sr.) got scared, so he withdrew all his accusations. He said that he was just joking around, and that the statement that he made about me using steroids wasn't true.

Reporter: It is not typical of him (Manny) to say comments such as this, but now he is advising Father and Son Mayweather to be prepared instead of just running their mouths.

Manny: If our fight happens... maybe he should warn his son thats this fight will be...

Reporter: What?

Manny: Painful for his son because of the false accusations that he (Mayweather Sr.) did to me.

As we say in the U.S. "Thems' fightin' words!" :punch: :laugh:

rockdawg21
12-02-2009, 04:21 AM
On another note, Arum is on his way to the Philippines right now to meet with Pacquiao. It seems to be in regards to his current run for a Congressional seat and possible conflict with a Mayweather showdown.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/12/bob-arum-to-meet-with-manny-pacquiao-over-philippines-election-affecting-floyd-mayweather-fight-date.html
Bob Arum to meet with Manny Pacquiao over election's affect on Floyd Mayweather fight date
December 1, 2009 | 5:52 pm

Manny Pacquiao's promoter, Bob Arum, will be making a trip to the Philippines tonight so he can discuss the boxer's participation in a Congressional election in the country and how it will affect a potential fight date against Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Arum said this evening that an opponent will run against the world champion boxer in the May 10 election, which will force Pacquiao to campaign extensively in the province of Sarangani in the weeks preceding the election. Mayweather, Arum and several others attempting to negotiate a potential fight would like the bout to occur on May 1. An alternate date of March 13 has been discussed but it's viewed as too early in the year to properly promote a fight of its magnitude.

Arum wants to get a firm handle on how Pacquiao's schedule and training will be impacted by his election campaign. Pacquiao routinely works with trainer Freddie Roach for eight weeks before a bout.

http://philboxing.com/news/story-30638.html
ARUM ARRIVING TO MEET WITH MANNY

By Ronnie Nathanielsz
PhilBoxing.com
Wed, 02 Dec 2009

Now that pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao has filed his Certificate of Candidacy for the lone congressional seat of Sarangani, Top Rank promoter Bob Arum is arriving in Manila on Thursday morning from Las Vegas to meet with the boxing hero and map out plans for his next fight.

Arum appeared a little disappointed that the assurances he was given by Team Pacquiao members that Pacquiao would run unopposed and that influential individuals in government, including President Arroyo, would succeed in convincing the well-established Chiongbian family in Sarangani not to run against the boxing hero, failed to materialize. The efforts to convince the Chiongians to give way to Pacquiao obviously didn't work and Chiongbian filed his C-O-C on Tuesday night.

Prior to boarding his flight for Manila, Arum told www.insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports that he would “meet with Manny about a fight and then announce my new deal with ABS-CBN.”

The giant broadcast network which has significantly advanced its involvement in sports on television has kept boxing in the forefront alongside its telecast of major billiards events like the just-concluded World 10-Ball Championships won by Mika Immonen who beat Filipino Lee Van Corteza in the finals and the on-going inaugural World 10-Ball Mixed Doubles Classic where the top seeds are pool legend Efren “Bata” Reyes and Rubilen Amit, winner of the inaugural World Women’s 10-Ball Championships.

ABS-CBN is also well known for its coverage of the exciting UAAP and NCAA basketball tournaments and other sports events both on Studio 23 and its cable network Balls with its major boxing events also telecast on its pre-eminent Channel 2. Arum indicated a formal announcement of the ABS-CBN partnership will be made on Friday.

Top Rank fights were previously telecast by Solar Sports who will however continue to telecast the fights of Pacquiao who is under a long-term contract with Solar Entertainment.

Arum told us late Tuesday night that he was trying desperately to find out whether there was any candidate opposing Pacquiao but that he had learned some hours before leaving Las Vegas that indeed Chiongbian had filed and will contest the congressional seat Pacquiao is also eyeing.

Arum indicated that with this development Pacquiao would have to fight a lesser opponent in a planned March 13 event in the new billion-dollar stadium of the Dallas Cowboys in Texas while negotiations for a multi-million dollar super-fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr will have to be held in abeyance with a possible fight date in September. He told us earlier "what's there to talk about" if Pacquiao is running for a seat in the House of Representatives in the May 2010 elections.

Arum and Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer met last week over lunch in Las Vegas and began initial talks on a possible Pacquiao-Mayweather fight after the Mayweather camp headed by chief adviser Leonard Ellerbe gave Schaefer the broad parameters for negotiations, Ellerbe himself didn’t wish to hamper the negotiations by his direct participation since he and Arum have had some differences in the past and he, Ellerbe, didn’t wish to be a stumbling block in the effort to get a fight deal done.

Meanwhile, Michael Marley seems quite confident that a deal has been made (as indicated by Kevin Iole) and I'd think it's safe to say a 50/50 split has been made and will be accepted by Pacquiao to make the fight. Each of them will make a minimum 40 million for the fight. For Pacquiao, that is the equivalent of 1,800,000,000 pesos (yes, that's approx. 1.8 billion pesos). Just to give you an idea how much that is, a Filipino family of 4 can get by with $200 U.S. or 9,000 pesos. :jaw-dropping:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-5699-NY-Boxing-Examiner~y2009m12d1-Arum-hand-delivers-Mayweather-offer-that-Pacquiao-cant-refuse
Arum hand delivers Mayweather offer that Pacquiao can't refuse

December 1, 10:46 PMNY Boxing Examiner Michael Marley

As you read this, a soon to turn age 78 year old named Robert Arum is piling up the frequent flyer miles from Las Vegas to Manila.

The Top Rank Top Dog isn’t going to the Philippines to discuss Sarangani local politics with Manny Pacquiao.

And he's not to extend sympathy because Sports Illustrated tabbed Yankees superstar Derek Jeter as Sportsman of the Year over the more deserving National Fist.

He’s going to see his star client with a firm deal in hand for Pacman to face undefeated Floyd Mayweather Jr. on March 13 in a Las vegas mega bout.

Forget the smokescreens about Pacman fighting junior middleweight champ and rabbinical student Yuri Foreman. And ditto for the one about Mayweather going to Manchester to beat up Matthew Hilton.

Arum has what he feels is a fair and viable deal in hand and he will present to Pacman for a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

If Pacquiao is amenable, septuagenarian Arum might even seal the big deal before his Dec. 8 bithday and well before Dec. 17, when Megamanny turns age 31.

They used to say, “Don’t trust anyone over 30” back in the New Age, Woodstock Generation but promoter and fighter have come to trust each other as they have piled up millions of dollars in tandem in recent Pacquiao bouts, victories all for the Pinoy Idol.

It’s an easy guess that, at least publicly, the revenue split will be said to be 50-50 and I feel that is fair to both sides. Mayweather is unbeaten, he is an American fighting in his homeland and he used to occupy the Pound For Pound throne which now belongs to Pacman.

The working date is March 13 and, again, I totally discount Texas Stadium.

What happens in Vegas won’t stay there when casino operators work together to land this whopper, this once in a generation mega fight.

When Vegas steps up, it will be, “Fumble, Jerry Jones, fumble Cowboys!”

Fight fans won’t have to beware the Ides of March, instead they will embrace it for the Biggest fight That Can Possibly Be Made is coming to fruition.

What say you, Megamanny?

The money is right, the legacy is there for the taking.

In this case, I hope Pacquiao does like Jim Carrey in that movie.

I hope Pacquiao is a “Yes Man.”

Arum lands in Manila bearing an offer, Manny, that you can’t refuse.

It's your move now, Manny.

J.B.
12-04-2009, 01:35 PM
Looks like Manny signed the deal

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23907

If this is really set, and they do make an announcement next week, that would be pretty crazy. I expected a lot more complications from both camps in terms of negotiations. From what I have been reading, it sounds like Freddie Roach is not too happy about it happening in March, but I cannot confirm that right now.

rockdawg21
12-04-2009, 06:51 PM
Looks like Manny signed the deal

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23907

If this is really set, and they do make an announcement next week, that would be pretty crazy. I expected a lot more complications from both camps in terms of negotiations. From what I have been reading, it sounds like Freddie Roach is not too happy about it happening in March, but I cannot confirm that right now.
Yeah, it became pretty obvious when Arum went to the Philippines to hand-deliver the message that this was big.

Yes, it's been confirmed, Roach wants a 3-month training camp to prepare for Mayweather rather than Pac's typical 2-month camps. Roach is also concerned about the damage suffered to Pac's ear from the Cotto fight. He would like the fight to be in May, but that's when Pac plans to run for office. I can't find the article for some reason, it was on Pac's site, but it's been pushed through with all the new news. If I'm able to find it where Roach is talking about those things, I'll link it here.

And as always, instead of trying to fight Pac at his best, he wants to stack the deck with 10 ounce gloves and a 154 pound weight limit, but it doesn't sound like Roach is too worried about it and says the fight will go on as a normal welterweight bout:

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23910
By Mark Vester

As reported earlier by BoxingScene.com's Ronnie Nathanielsz, WBO welterweight champion Manny Pacquiao met with Top Rank's Bob Arum and signed off on a deal to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. on March 13, 2010. Arum told BoxingScene there would be some minor fine tuning of the contract terms but nothing that would stand in the way of fight going forward.

According to Pacquiao's trainer Freddie Roach, who spoke with Sky Sports, Mayweather is looking for 10oz gloves and a fight weight of 154-pounds. Pacquiao's side wants 8oz gloves and a weight limit of 147. Roach says the issues with the gloves and weight will be worked out. Roach will use WBA junior welterweight champ Amir Khan as Pacquiao's main sparring partner for the fight.

We talked to Arum and he had the March date and May 1 available and Manny chose the earlier date because of the elections in the Phillipines, and I can't wait to get started," Roach told Sky Sports News. It'll be the biggest fight of all time, the biggest pay-per-view event of all time and my main sparring partner will be Amir Khan.

There's always negotiations, like he [Mayweather] wants 10oz gloves we want 8oz gloves, stuff like that, the weight he wants is 154lb, we want 147, so there's some issues but I think it can be solved. It's a tough fight because his style does give us difficulties, and we need to draft a plan for a new strategy. Yes, it's a tough fight but it's a fight Manny wants.

J.B.
12-04-2009, 07:36 PM
I had not heard that report until just now, but it makes perfect sense. I wouldn't call this SET just yet.

See, everybody knows that it would be better if the fight took place later next year, at least mid-summer. The longer they let it simmer, the bigger it will be. From what I have been reading, it seems that Manny was more willing to commit to the earlier date because he wants to focus on his political campaign.

Asking for the weight of 154 is a total leverage move. Floyd knows he would never get that, but if he comes to the table and says he wants it at 154, it stops Manny's side from asking for it at anything lower than 147. That's no surprise, and was to be expected. (However it should be noted that Freddie Roach had no problem saying that Manny would move up to 154 and challenge Foreman for the title. Not saying, but just saying)

Now, the 10 oz. gloves can be looked at a few different ways. To the Floyd camp, it may seem like fair trade for giving up more money in the deal, or they may be using it as a tactic to GET more money from the deal by agreeing to 8 oz gloves. Remember, Floyd has a history of hand problems, and it's why he took the time off, the last thing he needs is to break his hand in the middle of a war with Manny. You could say he is also thinking about the hand strength of Manny, and that is probably true, but regardless of weather they are 8 or 10 oz gloves, it will play no difference in the outcome. It's all about bargaining. Floyd may also be throwing those out there just to deliberately stall negotiations so that it can happen later in the year. Regardless, it's all just about bargaining when you are talking about a potential 80 million dollars.

Bottom line is, those kind of things go back and forth all the time in negotiations, but we just don't always hear about it unless it's a superfight like this one. In the end it boils down to getting more money out of the contract. One side says, "I want the fight at this weight". Then the other side says "okay, but you gotta give me more money". Then the other side says, "NO f**k that". Then they go back and forth and back and forth until somebody gives in, or the fight just never happens.

rockdawg21
12-04-2009, 07:44 PM
Yeah, I'd rather it be a summer blockbuster myself, but for some dumb reason, Pac thinks he needs to run for political office. He will lose again just like he lost in 2007. He's only 30 years old, I don't know why he's in such a rush, but that's his deal. I think it's great he wants to pursue it, but jeeze, wait until your career is over before trying to start a new one.

Yeah, which is why boxing is dumb, yet funny. All the politics involved with boxing are just silly IMO. Just agree to an amount and make the damn fight. The way business is handled in boxing is almost like how little children negotiate on the playground. And before you say, "if you don't like it, don't watch it", well, I have every right to bitch and moan, then watch it :laugh:

J.B.
12-04-2009, 07:53 PM
Yeah, I'd rather it be a summer blockbuster myself, but for some dumb reason, Pac thinks he needs to run for political office. He will lose again just like he lost in 2007. He's only 30 years old, I don't know why he's in such a rush, but that's his deal. I think it's great he wants to pursue it, but jeeze, wait until your career is over before trying to start a new one.

Yeah, which is why boxing is dumb, yet funny. All the politics involved with boxing are just silly IMO. Just agree to an amount and make the damn fight. The way business is handled in boxing is almost like how little children negotiate on the playground. And before you say, "if you don't like it, don't watch it", well, I have every right to bitch and moan, then watch it :laugh:

You can bitch and moan. :laugh:

I only tell people not to watch Boxing if they are elitist MMA fans or complete haters.

I never said Boxing was perfect, but I also understand why it is the way it is. Like I said, we are talking about a RIDICULOUS amount of money. We are talking about the kind of money that something like 2 oz of padding or 3 lbs in weight can add up to enough money to put all your kids through college. It may seem ridiculous to us, because we just wanna see them beat the crap out of each other, but they gotta think about that stuff. That's actually why I love Boxing so much. The fighters are so independent, and they truly have to fight their whole lives to make it to the level Manny and Floyd are at now. Once they are there, they have earned the right to squabble over minute issues and money. It's just the way it is. :)

rockdawg21
12-04-2009, 09:47 PM
Well, looks like Freddie isn't going to completely get what he wants (a May fight date), but he says if Pac is cool with it then so is he. If they start right after the new year, they'll get 10 weeks of training, which is probably better than the 12 weeks that Roach wants.

Both fighters will be ready and so will the fans :punch:

http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxing-Examiner~y2009m12d4-Roach-Mayweather-knows-Pacquaio-can-walk-through-him
Roach: Mayweather knows Pacquaio can walk through him

December 4, 2:08 PMNY Boxing Examiner Michael Marley

Photo edited by JON GARCIA
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID5699/images/byebyefloyd(1).png

I tracked down global gypsy and Manny Pacquiao trainer-guru Coach Freddie Roach to a smoky, noisy bar inside the Newscastle Hilton Hotel late Friday night.

Roach sends his young charge and WBA junior welterweight champ Amir Khan, the Bolton Bomber, into the ring in Newcastle On Thyne Saturday night against talking big, unbeaten challenger Dimitriy Saleta (Brooklyn, New York).

As far as you Paclanders having any worries about the Pacquiao-Mayweather Super Fight Express Train, bound for destiny on March 12, without Coach Roach’s full approval, rest easy.

Roach has been very firm in saying he preferred a May fight date, the better for Megamanny to heal up from any cuffing he took in stopping Miguel Cotto on Nov. 14.

But Pacquiao, as revealed to me by Bob Arum speaking by phone from Manila Friday morning (NY time), has given a full greenlight to his promoter to close the deal with undefeated Mayweather for March 13.

There’s even a Big Apple massive presser set for Jan. 11.

No problem, sayeth Coach Roach from Old Blighty.

“If Manny says yes, if Manny is OK with the March 13 date, then certainly I am also,” Roach said.

“We will have to start training right after New Year’s Day so that we get our customary 10 weeks in. I guess we will have a month in the Philippines followed by the remainder at my (Wild Card, Hollywood) gym.

“I really like it when Manny stays so active, when there is not much down time. He stays sharp and that is good.”

Roach said he also thinks minimizing Manny’s political distractions would benefit the fighter.

As far as competing against a proven Hall Of Fame lock candidate who has yet to be whipped, Roach is not trembling in his booties.

“We see flaws in Mayweather,” Roach said. “Sure, he is great defensively but we see some flaws which we can exploit.

“Whether it’s those shoulder rolls or anything else, defense does not win fights completely. We know what we can do against Mayweather. I know Manny can’t be hurt by Mayweather and Mayweather knows it also.

“Manny can walk right through anything Mayweather throws. So what happens then we shall see.”

On the upcoming Congressional campaign in Sarangani Province, Roach said having it in the back of his mind won’t deter Manny’s fight preparation.

“I do think it helps that the election campaign goes on after this key fight. We can have as good if not a better training camp than we had for the last fight.”

Roach is fully on board the Mayweather-Pacquiao Express and ready to roll.

That collective sign of relief you hear is millions of Paclanders exhaling.

PS. Remember to visit theboxingtruth.com every Sunday at 6pm Pacific Standard Time, 10 am Mondays on the Phillippines as I'll be on the internet radio waves dissecting all that is Pacquiao-Mayweather!

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 01:58 AM
You can bitch and moan. :laugh:

I only tell people not to watch Boxing if they are elitist MMA fans or complete haters.

I never said Boxing was perfect, but I also understand why it is the way it is. Like I said, we are talking about a RIDICULOUS amount of money. We are talking about the kind of money that something like 2 oz of padding or 3 lbs in weight can add up to enough money to put all your kids through college. It may seem ridiculous to us, because we just wanna see them beat the crap out of each other, but they gotta think about that stuff. That's actually why I love Boxing so much. The fighters are so independent, and they truly have to fight their whole lives to make it to the level Manny and Floyd are at now. Once they are there, they have earned the right to squabble over minute issues and money. It's just the way it is. :)
I think it's silly. Think if the Lakers were scheduling a game with the Cavs.

Kobe: "I agree to the game, but we need to have it on 11 foot rims and the 3-point line should be set at 27 feet."
Lebron: "Ok, I'll give you those, but I want an extra 5% of the ticket sales and concession stands profits, and the backboards have to be real glass and not plexiglass."
Kobe: "Sure, that's fair, but if I'm going to give you those, I want to be able to shoot free throws from 12 feet and you have to shoot them from 15 feet."
Lebron: "Ok Kobe, but if I'm going to shoot them from 15 feet, I should be able to shoot them with a woman's basketball and you should have to shoot them with a men's basketball, stand on one leg, and shoot it one-handed while wearing a blindfold."
Kobe: "Alright Lebron, you drive a hard bargain, but I want the game to be scheduled for February 14 as I don't really care about my wife as evidenced by my rape charges a few years ago, and I know you love your wife, so I'm going to deprive you of being able to spend Valentine's Day with her."
etc.

That's basically what happens in boxing. If it translated to other sports, it would be stupid, but that's what they do in boxing. It's so elementary :laugh:

J.B.
12-05-2009, 05:08 AM
I think it's silly. Think if the Lakers were scheduling a game with the Cavs.

Kobe: "I agree to the game, but we need to have it on 11 foot rims and the 3-point line should be set at 27 feet."
Lebron: "Ok, I'll give you those, but I want an extra 5% of the ticket sales and concession stands profits, and the backboards have to be real glass and not plexiglass."
Kobe: "Sure, that's fair, but if I'm going to give you those, I want to be able to shoot free throws from 12 feet and you have to shoot them from 15 feet."
Lebron: "Ok Kobe, but if I'm going to shoot them from 15 feet, I should be able to shoot them with a woman's basketball and you should have to shoot them with a men's basketball, stand on one leg, and shoot it one-handed while wearing a blindfold."
Kobe: "Alright Lebron, you drive a hard bargain, but I want the game to be scheduled for February 14 as I don't really care about my wife as evidenced by my rape charges a few years ago, and I know you love your wife, so I'm going to deprive you of being able to spend Valentine's Day with her."
etc.

That's basically what happens in boxing. If it translated to other sports, it would be stupid, but that's what they do in boxing. It's so elementary :laugh:

That's a really bad comparison Rock, and you are also downplaying the other points I made about the amount of money involved. Boxing is an individual sport and ultimately it is the fighters who control their destiny. Again, I never said Boxing's system was perfect, not by any means, but there is not ANY sport that has a system that is 100% perfect from top to bottom. Not to mention that your comparison also goes off into fantasy land when saying one side is demanding something the other side can't have in terms of the actual competition. Floyd is not asking for Manny to wear 10 oz gloves while he wears 8 oz gloves, or asking Manny to come in at 144 while he comes in at 154, it's nothing like that, it never would be anything like that, and you know it.

In major team sports the athletes are employees of their team, which are part of a league that sets the schedules and the rules. The players are part of unions that protect the player's general interests and ensure a fair pay scale for even the lowest tier players. The structure of those leagues institutes a system of checks and balances by default. Those athletes are not a part of a system that gives them independent control like fighters are. Not to mention that the big leagues like the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL are actually a huge part of local economies in the cities they are in, and usually the cities put up tax money to help front the cost of building the stadiums. That alone puts the big 4 American leagues on a completely different level than any individual sport like Boxing, Tennis, or Golf for example. I mean think about it, Jerry Jones wants to host this Manny vs Floyd fight in the new Cowboys stadium. That would bring a LOT of money to the city, and it wouldn't be possible without the Dallas Cowboys being there in the first place. Exposure and sponsorship levels are also through the roof in those sports. Even the players who scrape by in mediocrity end up making tens of millions of dollars over their careers. Very few fighters get that luxury.

How many times do fighters really get to fight for the BIG paydays in their careers? A handful, maybe, if they are lucky and DAMN good. They NEED to take full advantage of those opportunities because they never know if it will come around again. The type of bargaining and negotiating we see before these marquee fights is very similar to what athletes in other sports do during the final year of their contracts, or when they are free agents after having an MVP year. If a fighter gets hurt during training and can never fight again, he gets NOTHING. Not like the huge guarantees that the big names get in the other major sports. It's a whole different ball game, no pun intended.

It may seem silly to you, me, or some other fans, but it is their lively-hood, and they deserve the opportunity to engage in good old fashioned American capitalism like any other expert striving for leverage in their professional field. We don't have to like every aspect of it, but it's just the way it is. Just like I don't really agree with a lot of the way the UFC is being run, but it doesn't mean I don't still like the overall product, and it doesn't mean I don't understand that the UFC has done a brilliant job of building a great company that has become the foundation for an awesome sport. They too, the (Fertitias and Dana) have every right to make their money. I just have my opinions on how it could be better.

I'm not sure if you have ever seen the movie "Million Dollar Baby" with Clint Eastwood but, if not, you should check it out. While it is a fictional movie, it does actually offer a lot of great insight on how the old school Boxing mentality is, and why fighters and trainers make the decisions they do when negotiating fights. Granted everybody's situation is different and there are a lot of angles to the politics of the game, but that movie does a good job of showing and explaining the view from some old timer's perspectives. Hillary Swank is pretty good too. :)

J.B.
12-05-2009, 09:06 AM
I just got this news update on my phone from ESPN...looks like a 50/50 split is the agreement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4715684

Some interesting notes

The camps agreed to a 50-50 split of the money, which could be gargantuan. Many experts expect the fight to eclipse the all-time pay-per-view record for sales, which is the 2.44 million buys generated by Mayweather's 2007 victory against Oscar De La Hoya.

We saw this coming, and it's obviously fair.

The source also disclosed other aspects of the fight, which will take place at the welterweight limit of 147 pounds for Pacquiao's title and match the top two fighters in the world, pound-for-pound.

Again, this was obvious. 147 is what we all want to see.

Both fighters will wear 8-ounce gloves but each fighter will be allowed to select the brand of gloves he will wear for the fight.


I had no doubt this would likely be the case, but now I wonder if Floyd ever actually asked for the 10oz gloves. It could have been a rumor that somebody started, or it could have been a bargaining tactic. We wont know until the fighters actually start talking to the press, even then we may never know.

"Manny has some additional requirements, requests, which Arum didn't think was a problem. The requests of Manny were so realistic that Arum doesn't feel it's a problem and it's pretty much a done deal."

Hmmm...I wonder what those are? Still, If Arum is saying he is confident that they are minute and he thinks it's a done deal, I'm likely to believe him at this point....but Arum is a sneaky snake :ninja:

For promotional purposes, the bout will be referred to as Mayweather-Pacquiao, but Top Rank will receive first billing over Golden Boy throughout the promotion.

That may seem minute, but to Floyd he definitely sees that as a small mental victory. Nobody can argue that Floyd has earned the right to be top-bill on any fight, and that is not taking anything away from Manny because he has earned that right too.

Arum is probably tickled pink to put his name above Oscar's too, but I could care less about those two goofballs.

However, instead of a full-scale media tour, there will only be a single press conference in New York during the second week of January. With the schedule compressed because of the March 13 date for the fight, rather than May 1, which the promoters and HBO PPV preferred, it didn't leave time for a lengthy media tour.

I find this last part strange. All the reports I have read have suggested that they actually wanted to wait until later in the year. The lengthy media tour is what would really help drum up more hype. Do they really think that 3-5 extra months is going to kill the momentum? Are they afraid of the risk involved in a longer wait, such as injury or other personal matters?

The world is drooling over this fight, and a mid-late Summer fight would be perfect. I understand why Manny wants to fight soon, and I can even formulate a rationale as to why Floyd would want to fight sooner rather than later. However I can't see why the promoters would want to blow their load and bet the house so early in the game. I mean, even May makes a LOT better sense than March in terms of promoting and generating the proper amount of hype for a fight like this. Hey, I'm still just a fan though, so I am not complaining, I will be glad to see the fight sooner rather than later.

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah, I know my example was nutty, but that's similar to what's going on in boxing, I just embellished the negotiation. It's just funny and stupid to me. It's a business, and I understand that, just the way things are so back & forth with demands is funny.

I pretty much saw it the same way that the fight would ultimately be a 50/50 split, at 147 pounds, and 8 ounce gloves. I'm sure Manny simply laughed at Mayweather asking to have his name first. That's just some of Floyd's ego coming into place whereas Manny is much more humble and really could care less about something so minute.

I wonder about entrances though. IMO, Manny is the champ and if Floyd is going to come into the ring last as the challenger, that's kinda f'ed up, but Manny probably could care less about that. It'd just be another thing to boost Floyd's self-worth as he always seems to need that type of assurance. It's a respect thing either way, but the champ should always come in last regardless of who's fighting.

J.B.
12-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Yeah, I know my example was nutty, but that's similar to what's going on in boxing, I just embellished the negotiation. It's just funny and stupid to me. It's a business, and I understand that, just the way things are so back & forth with demands is funny.

I pretty much saw it the same way that the fight would ultimately be a 50/50 split, at 147 pounds, and 8 ounce gloves. I'm sure Manny simply laughed at Mayweather asking to have his name first. That's just some of Floyd's ego coming into place whereas Manny is much more humble and really could care less about something so minute.

I wonder about entrances though. IMO, Manny is the champ and if Floyd is going to come into the ring last as the challenger, that's kinda f'ed up, but Manny probably could care less about that. It'd just be another thing to boost Floyd's self-worth as he always seems to need that type of assurance. It's a respect thing either way, but the champ should always come in last regardless of who's fighting.

You can call it ego if you like, but it's also tradition. For decades it's been a matter of respect to have your name at the top of the bill when advertising big fights. It also a big thing when it comes to personal marketing, it will make his name more recognizable to new fans.

Well, there is no argument that Manny is the champ, and I would highly doubt that Mayweather comes out last. Honestly, I don't care who comes out when, but yes you are right the champ does always come out last.

Floyd doesn't need to boost his self worth, he is just that kind of guy who likes to be flashy in the public eye. He embraces his celebrity status, and there is nothing wrong with that. I realize that is huge turn off to a lot of people, but he is just being himself and not being fake. He is like a lot of guys, lots of people love him and lots of people hate him. Characters like him with the talent he has, and who accomplish what he has accomplished only come around the sport once in a great while. I can only name 3 from the last 50 years that would fit that mold; Ali, Roy Jones, and Floyd.

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 01:35 PM
LOL, Floyd is a studio gangsta rapper. He doesn't even drink and here he's talking about poppin' bottles and slingin' guns (although recently he was mentioned as a person of interest in that shooting at the skating rink a few months back). Once again, he should just stick to boxing and his guest appearances on the WWE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEC12ieb8TI&feature=player_embedded#

J.B.
12-05-2009, 01:37 PM
Thats old...

Roy Jones was way better at gangsta rap...yall must a forgot! :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWIqZKhNY90

J.B.
12-05-2009, 01:46 PM
LOL, Floyd is a studio gangsta rapper. He doesn't even drink and here he's talking about poppin' bottles and slingin' guns (although recently he was mentioned as a person of interest in that shooting at the skating rink a few months back). Once again, he should just stick to boxing and his guest appearances on the WWE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEC12ieb8TI&feature=player_embedded#

Floyd was cleared of any wrong doing in that incident

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur55623.cfm

http://allhiphop.com/stories/news/archive/2009/08/25/21910432.aspx

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 01:51 PM
LOL, I didn't forget, I just didn't know! Wow, I made it about 50 seconds into that video and just had to close it. At the very least, he's better than E40.

Yeah, I know about Floyd getting cleared. He's a studio gangsta. Like Eazy-E said about Dre in "It's On":

"Hey mista pranksta pranksta, storybook gangsta, back in '86 you wear da pumps and mascara." :laugh:

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 01:55 PM
Back on the real subject, I'm so happy this fight is happening. A few years ago, somebody suggested about that fight, and I said, "No way, Pac is 20 pounds lighter than Floyd. It'd be cool, but Pac doesn't have a snowfalls' chance in Hell of that ever happening." Well, I guess a snowfall can happen in Hell! :laugh:

Everything's going the way it should be with the 50/50 split, at the welterweight limit, and with 8 ounce gloves. My only concern is Manny's broken right eardrum not being completely healed by the fight. If it's not 100% and he gets hit in that eardrum, it could really change the outcome of the fight. Granted, fighters are never 100% for a fight, but a problem with the inner ear is a major issue. Manny says he's fine though, so hopefully it will be and both fighters will be virtually 100% so we can watch the two best fighters of our generation slug it out! :punch:

J.B.
12-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Actually Roy Jones is not half bad as a rapper. That song is just hilarious because it's all about Boxing. He did a song called "Can't Be Touched" with a group called the BodyHeadbangers...it's pretty tight. Rampage actually used it as an entrance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3i7PNBAhQY

Roy Jones was also in the last two Matrix movies, and he's not a bad actor. RJJ will always be the man! :laugh:

J.B.
12-05-2009, 01:57 PM
I agree, getting back on topic, I am excited for this fight...

This is going to be huge, and March will come sooner than you think.

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree, getting back on topic, I am excited for this fight...

This is going to be huge, and March will come sooner than you think

Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, DALLAS, DALLAS, DALLAS!!!!!!!! :laugh:

I just really want it to be in Dallas, not necessarily due to the fact it's only 4.5 hours north of here, but because I can buy the cheap crappy seats in the nosebleeds, then watch the fight clear as day on that GIANT HDTV hanging above the ring. Could always be there for the excitement, and still see it clear as day.

J.B.
12-05-2009, 02:05 PM
Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, DALLAS, DALLAS, DALLAS!!!!!!!! :laugh:

I just really want it to be in Dallas, not necessarily due to the fact it's only 4.5 hours north of here, but because I can buy the cheap crappy seats in the nosebleeds, then watch the fight clear as day on that GIANT HDTV hanging above the ring. Could always be there for the excitement, and still see it clear as day.


I am seriously considering making the trip if they do it in Vegas or LA. Texas would be fun, but it's too far of a drive for a weekend trip, and I already gotta take time out in February to fly to Chicago. I really wasn't expecting the fight to happen this fast.

To see it in Cowboys Stadium would be nuts though...

rockdawg21
12-05-2009, 06:58 PM
I am seriously considering making the trip if they do it in Vegas or LA. Texas would be fun, but it's too far of a drive for a weekend trip, and I already gotta take time out in February to fly to Chicago. I really wasn't expecting the fight to happen this fast.

To see it in Cowboys Stadium would be nuts though...
I wouldn't be able to convince my wife to go to Vegas though, it'd be too expensive with the both of us and she loves to watch me when Pac is fighting, I'm all in it yelling and screaming (same with Brock too), lol

We're saving to go to the Philippines next Christmas, so planning another vacation to see a boxing match versus her going home to see her family just isn't going to happen unless I have a stellar year in sales or if we win the lottery.

J.B.
12-05-2009, 07:35 PM
I wouldn't be able to convince my wife to go to Vegas though, it'd be too expensive with the both of us and she loves to watch me when Pac is fighting, I'm all in it yelling and screaming (same with Brock too), lol

We're saving to go to the Philippines next Christmas, so planning another vacation to see a boxing match versus her going home to see her family just isn't going to happen unless I have a stellar year in sales or if we win the lottery.

See, I wouldn't even mind spending the money to go to Dallas, it's just that now it's coming in such close proximity to when I have to go back to Chicago that I won't really have the extra money to spend on plane tickets or taking extra time off work. My old drummer and best friend is having a kid and I promised him I would be there.

For me Vegas is relatively short drive, so is LA. So I am definitely going to consider it if they come this far west.

rockdawg21
12-09-2009, 10:18 PM
I just thought of something, maybe the thread should be changed to Mayweather-Pacquiao because that's the true title of the event :laugh:

Anyways, Pac has signed as confirmed by Roach. Just waiting to hear from Mayweather:

8CN Freddie Roach Exclusive! " We signed the contract"

December 9th, 2009

Brad Cooney

8CountNews just spoke with Freddie Roach and got an update on the status of the super fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. Roach informs 8CN that Manny has signed the contract, and they are waiting for Mayweather to sign his. Roach confirms that both fighters have agreed on the purse money, and the glove size. Freddie also confirms that Dallas, Texas is in the running as a possible venue spot for the fight. Don't miss what else Freddie Roach had to say in this exclusive 8CN interview.

8CN - Freddie, thanks for joining us. Can you give us a status update on the Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd Mayweather Jr fight?

FR - Everything looks good. We have agreed on the glove size, and the weight. I talked to Arum, Dallas wants the fight, MGM wants the fight, Yankee Stadium wants the fight, so it's just trying to find out where the venue is. The fight looks good.

8CN - Do you think at this point anything can snag it, or throw this fight off of the tracks?

FR - Well anything is possible with Floyd Mayweather involved, but we signed our contract and that's all I care about. There is nothing that I can do about the other guy. I don't know if they officially signed, but we have.

8CN - Have you heard anything about New Orleans being a possible venue for the fight?

FR - I haven't heard that, but I am sure Bob Arum is looking everywhere possible.

8CN - Talk about the match-up. How does Manny match up against Floyd?

FR - It's a difficult fight, it's the most difficult style for us to go against because he is a runner and a counter puncher. We will go to camp and we will make some changes, we will set traps for this guy. This is completely opposite of the Cotto fight, opposite of the Hatton fight, and opposite from the De La Hoya fight. We will come up with a new game plan, a 10 week camp, and some changes. We will work on setting traps and taking Floyd's speed away from him.

8CN - Many of Mayweather's detractors accuse of him cherry picking his opponents and fighting smaller guys. You are an ex fighter, and the best trainer in the world. How do you answer his critics?

FR- It's the best fighting the best right now. People can say what they want, but he's very good at what he does. He's not an exciting fighter, but he's good at what he does. Let's face it, he's never been beat. We are going to come up with a great game-plan, I know my guy can do it. We will get in shape and we will try to make it as exciting as possible. Floyd is not an offensive guy he's a very defensive fighter, but defense doesn't win fights, offense does. We will excel in those areas, and we can match his hand-speed. Mayweather is very clever, it's a challenge for both men.

8CN - Will you train in PI and in USA again?

FR - Yes one month in PI and one in Los Angeles. I have no problem with that.

8CN - And just to confirm, March 13th is the date?

FR - March 13th is the date, that's not going to change.

Crisco
12-10-2009, 05:58 PM
Actually Roy Jones is not half bad as a rapper. That song is just hilarious because it's all about Boxing. He did a song called "Can't Be Touched" with a group called the BodyHeadbangers...it's pretty tight. Rampage actually used it as an entrance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3i7PNBAhQY

Roy Jones was also in the last two Matrix movies, and he's not a bad actor. RJJ will always be the man! :laugh:

indeed. It was tight, I;m not sure if RJJ wrote it tohugh haha.

J.B.
12-10-2009, 06:05 PM
Looks like Dallas is out of the question.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=AhGPFYTnM4HEkO8T_85Ne52UxLYF?slug=txpacq uiaomayweather&prov=st&type=lgns

rockdawg21
12-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Looks like Dallas is out of the question.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=AhGPFYTnM4HEkO8T_85Ne52UxLYF?slug=txpacq uiaomayweather&prov=st&type=lgns
Yeah, that one really confuses me. They would seat more people there than any other venue that's going to host the fight, meaning, more money for the fighters. I'm really shocked it was cut off just like that.

J.B.
12-10-2009, 10:36 PM
Yeah, that one really confuses me. They would seat more people there than any other venue that's going to host the fight, meaning, more money for the fighters. I'm really shocked it was cut off just like that.

Well, I kinda figured that Floyd would lobby for Vegas simply because it's his backyard and he is so popular there. Also, I know that the taxes are a big part of it too, as was mentioned in that article in relation to why they think Vegas will win out over the Staples Center in LA. I'm not sure what the capital gains taxes or income taxes are like in Texas, but that could be part of it.

Also, I can imagine that some fighters just might not feel comfortable in that type of setting. I mean, that stadium can hold over a 100,000 people, that's a lot different than the venues that hold under 20,000 people like the MGM Grand in Vegas. As a fan, I would love to see a giant outdoor setting, but where ever they decide to fight will be fine with me.

rockdawg21
12-10-2009, 11:08 PM
Well, I kinda figured that Floyd would lobby for Vegas simply because it's his backyard and he is so popular there. Also, I know that the taxes are a big part of it too, as was mentioned in that article in relation to why they think Vegas will win out over the Staples Center in LA. I'm not sure what the capital gains taxes or income taxes are like in Texas, but that could be part of it.

Also, I can imagine that some fighters just might not feel comfortable in that type of setting. I mean, that stadium can hold over a 100,000 people, that's a lot different than the venues that hold under 20,000 people like the MGM Grand in Vegas. As a fan, I would love to see a giant outdoor setting, but where ever they decide to fight will be fine with me.
Texas doesn't have any state income taxes, I seriously doubt that's the issue.

I think it's just Mayweather wanting to fight in Vegas and nothing more than that. I agree Vegas is the Mecca of the boxing world, but a fight of this magnitude should be made more available to the fans rather than limiting seating to 17-18k.

Either way, I'm watching it, would just love to be there, but if it's in Vegas, forget about it.

J.B.
12-23-2009, 03:22 AM
Texas doesn't have any state income taxes, I seriously doubt that's the issue.

I think it's just Mayweather wanting to fight in Vegas and nothing more than that. I agree Vegas is the Mecca of the boxing world, but a fight of this magnitude should be made more available to the fans rather than limiting seating to 17-18k.

Either way, I'm watching it, would just love to be there, but if it's in Vegas, forget about it.

Income taxes and Capital Gains taxes are two different things...also I think you are ignoring my point that fighting in front of 20k and fighting in front of 100k is VERY different. :wink:

What I am really worried about is this....

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-boximpasse122209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

matthughesfan21
12-23-2009, 04:08 AM
Income taxes and Capital Gains taxes are two different things...also I think you are ignoring my point that fighting in front of 20k and fighting in front of 100k is VERY different. :wink:

What I am really worried about is this....

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-boximpasse122209&prov=yhoo&type=lgnsi'm not sure how the testing works, but out of drugs they test for, do anymore show up in blood that wouldn't in urine?

J.B.
12-23-2009, 05:08 AM
i'm not sure how the testing works, but out of drugs they test for, do anymore show up in blood that wouldn't in urine?

I don't know...that's not my expertise... (although my guess is YES, because it's not only common knowledge but also completely obvious, otherwise there wouldn't be problem)

However, I am pretty good at calling bulls**t when I hear it, and Bob Arum is gonna have to come up with something better than...
“We’re not going to agree to have Manny give blood in training, because that’s stupid,” Arum said. “Every doctor in the world will tell you that is stupid. He’ll give his blood at the beginning of the year and he’s willing to be urine-tested 24/7, but blood doesn’t show [expletive] and he’s not going to do it.”

Not good...:Whistle:

Keep in mind, Floyd is not asking Manny to do anything he is not willing to do.

matthughesfan21
12-23-2009, 05:43 AM
I don't know...that's not my expertise... (although my guess is YES, because it's not only common knowledge but also completely obvious, otherwise there wouldn't be problem)

However, I am pretty good at calling bulls**t when I hear it, and Bob Arum is gonna have to come up with something better than...


Not good...:Whistle:

Keep in mind, Floyd is not asking Manny to do anything he is not willing to do.
yeah it did seem like BS, he is scared of needles? well thats understandable, but for that much money, can't he just suck it up?

J.B.
12-23-2009, 06:10 AM
yeah it did seem like BS, he is scared of needles? well thats understandable, but for that much money, can't he just suck it up?

Well, skeptics may say it's not the needle he is scared of... :unsure-1:

matthughesfan21
12-23-2009, 06:21 AM
Well, skeptics may say it's not the needle he is scared of... :unsure-1:
the way I interpreted Arum's comments is that it is ok to take a blood test at the new year, but not 48 hours prior to the fight...well that seems rather strange, whats the problem Pac?

rockdawg21
12-23-2009, 11:51 AM
Ugh, the whole thing is stupid on the part of both fighters. Mayweather's being an ass, and Pac is being a bitch.

rearnakedchoke
12-23-2009, 01:29 PM
just more drama ... this won't be an issue

J.B.
12-23-2009, 03:32 PM
Ugh, the whole thing is stupid on the part of both fighters. Mayweather's being an ass, and Pac is being a bitch.

:wink:

Crisco
12-23-2009, 03:35 PM
Ugh, the whole thing is stupid on the part of both fighters. Mayweather's being an ass, and Pac is being a bitch.

True that.


Just Scrap.

J.B.
12-23-2009, 06:29 PM
I don't think it's stupid at all.

If there is nothing to hide, then there should be no issue with taking the test.

matthughesfan21
12-23-2009, 07:32 PM
I don't think it's stupid at all.

If there is nothing to hide, then there should be no issue with taking the test.

I'm rooting for Pac and absolutely hate PBF, but I agree with this

rockdawg21
12-23-2009, 11:47 PM
I was thinking about this earlier. It's just more positioning by the Mayweather camp. They started this crap months ago starting with the accusations from Floyd Sr. Because they thought Pac wouldn't accept the fight so close after his fight with Cotto and his ear injury, this is now Mayweather's newest way to avoid the fight.

Just as Mayweather has always done, he finds, yet again, another way to avoid an elite welterweight instead of just agreeing to some simple terms and making the fight happen for the fans of the sport. It's always one excuse, one demand after another with Mayweather.

As Arum says:
"And I bet you even if his demands are met, he will have to spotlight, again and again, another set of excuses. It's pathetic his demands are endless. He wakes up with a new demand each day after every nightmare." Arum adds.:laugh:
http://philboxing.com/news/story-31604.html

rockdawg21
12-24-2009, 12:26 AM
Found a very interesting article regarding this "massive weight gain" of Pacquiao. He's been accused of gaining 17 pounds in a year or two, which is completely false - he's simply cutting less weight to make fights. I always remembered hearing how he would struggle to make weight and he continued to jump weight classes because of this.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Rumble/entry/view/48832/is_pacquiao_impossible?_why_steroid_accusations_ar e_baseless
Is Pacquiao Impossible? Why Steroid Accusations Are Baseless

First, let me say that I resent this whole thing (http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Rumble/entry/view/48773/pacquiaomayweather_snagged_over_drug_testing). I'm not interested in steroids, never have been. Barry Bonds was my favorite baseball player and I haven't watched a game since he was run out of the game.

Furthermore, if I wanted to write about steroids I would be a baseball writer. (Mostly, I resent that it forced me to make the chart above, which I'll explain and repeat later.)

But things are what they are, so lets look at it. There has been absolutely no evidence - circumstantial or otherwise - that Manny Pacquiao has used steroids. There have been no rumors from his camp or unsavory characters with a suspicious past surrounding him.

All we have is the speculation of Floyd Mayweather Sr. that Pacquiao is a steroid user, not exactly the most trustworthy source. Floyd Sr. has been crowing that Pacquiao's reluctance to give blood samples so close to the fight proves that he is right. Floyd says (http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24282), "Like I said from the start, that was just my opinion. It's a lot of people's opinions now. For that kind of money how could you not take the test?" There's a reason.

Whatever the reason, did or does Mayweather Sr. have cause to be suspicious in the first place? His argument, and that of those who believe him, has largely been based on Pacquiao's swift move up through the weight classes.

The argument goes something like "In March, 2008 Pacquiao was fighting Juan Manual Marquez at the super featherweight limit of 130 pounds. In November, 2009 he beat Miguel Cotto in the welterweight division. It's impossible to gain 17 pounds (or the 15 for the 145 pound catchweight) in such a short period of time."

This speculation is not enough to conclusively prove anything, but it is evocative. Such a large weight gain over such a short period of time is, indeed, suspicious.

But is that what actually happened? As all boxing fans know making weight is not a simple thing. When a fighter comes in at the lightweight limit of 135 they can put on any amount of weight above that in the thirty hours before the fight takes place. To see Pacquiao's growth, I went back and took screenshots of the tale of the tape of his most recent fights. His actual in-ring weight tells a far different story than the one Floyd Mayweather Sr. and the steroid skeptics would have you believe.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture4.png
Pacquiao vs. Morales: November, 2006

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/th67326_vlcsnap-5555868_122_211lo.jpg
Pacquiao vs. Barrera: October 2007 (Sorry I couldn't get a bigger version. Pacquiao's official weight was 130, and in-ring was 144.)

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture10.png
I couldn't find a shot of Pacquiao Vs. Marquez in March 2008, but Pacquiao's official weight was 129. (UPDATE: I FOUND IT: NOTE: Pacquiao's in-ring weight is not reflected in the graph.)

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture1.png
Pacquiao vs. Diaz: June, 2008

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture3.png

Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya: December, 2008.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture2.png
Pacquaio vs. Hatton: May, 2009

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture9.png
Pacquiao/Cotto: November, 2009. No in-ring weight given.

Now, what does this all tell us? From November of 2006 until May of 2009 Pacquiao's in-ring weight only changed by four pounds. His body could have changed in many ways, but there is no way to argue he put on an impossible to believe fifteen or seventeen pounds unless you think he suddenly ballooned after the Cotto fight. Below is a chart marking Pacquiao's growth from the final Morales fight until his more recent fight with Miguel Cotto.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/pacquiaos_weight_over_time.pngAs we can see in this chart, Pacquiao's official weight has jumped quite rapidly, but his actual in-ring weight has remained very consistent.

Again, this doesn't provide evidence that Pacquiao is not using steroids. For all we know he is using everything under the sun. The point is that the underlying basis for the suspicion that Pacquiao is doping is based on a false premise. Manny Pacquiao has not gained an incredible amount of muscle mass. Instead he has simply ceased to drain such a huge amount of weight.

If anyone could understand this it would be Floyd Mayweather, who is known as one of the very few in the sport who does not drain himself severely to gain an advantage entering a fight. Here are some screen shots of Floyd's notable fights and his official and in-ring weights:<br />
http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture5.png
Mayweather vs. Corrales: January 2001

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture6.png
Mayweather vs. Ndou: November, 2003.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture8.png
Mayweather vs. Judah: April 2006.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab69/shoeflykorine/Picture7.png
Mayweather vs. Hatton: December 2007.

Mayweather hasn't allowed in-ring weights for his last few fights, but we can see his career growth has taken a longer period of time. The key difference, though, is that Mayweather never so severely drained weight as Pacquiao did. Mayweather always kept his official weight relatively close to his in-ring weight. Manny Pacquiao now does the same.

Manny Pacquiao could very well be doing steroids, but as the chart and photographs above show, he has not undergone a radical body reformation over recent months and years. It is mainly his success and fame that has grown, while his actual in-ring weight has remained consistent.

Will this convince people on either side? I doubt it, but just know that the reason for the supposed suspicion of Manny Pacquaio's steroid use is based around a faulty premise.

This is obviously nothing to do with steroids, but respect, and possibly, a slight fear of needles or fatigue (as explained below by Roach) by Pac. Something to keep in mind is this is a demand from an American and Pac being a foreigner, this is a VERY strange subject and accusation for him to face, especially as steroids are virtually unknown in the Philippines (I even had to explain to my Filipino wife what they are). Roach has some interesting comments on the subject:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hJBNonLKUWUJ1Aj4nYYqbj7lvHLwD9CP9BG80
Mayweather's promoter, Richard Schaefer, said he was willing to try and reach a consensus between the two sides. He cited comments by Pacquiao's trainer, Freddie Roach, that Pacquiao would agree to blood tests up to five days before the fight as possible middle ground.

"If we could agree to a 3-day cutoff I would try to sell that to my side," Schaefer said. "If Arum wants to walk away then he is going to be the one responsible for this fight falling apart."

Roach told The Associated Press on Tuesday night that he would not allow Pacquiao to be tested the day before the fight, but would agree to giving blood if there was a cutoff date.

"If they give me a 5-day window or something like that I have no problem with it," Roach said. "When they've drawn blood from Manny in the past he feels weaker for three or four days. It may be mental, but it's there."
I still think the demands are such BS and Floyd is simply finding another way to duck an elite welterweight, but perhaps if Freddie is able to get these terms and explain it to Pac, the negotiations will continue. Then, Floyd will find some other demand when he has his next nightmare of Pac KOing him.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 12:51 AM
I was thinking about this earlier. It's just more positioning by the Mayweather camp. They started this crap months ago starting with the accusations from Floyd Sr. Because they thought Pac wouldn't accept the fight so close after his fight with Cotto and his ear injury, this is now Mayweather's newest way to avoid the fight.

Just as Mayweather has always done, he finds, yet again, another way to avoid an elite welterweight instead of just agreeing to some simple terms and making the fight happen for the fans of the sport. It's always one excuse, one demand after another with Mayweather.

As Arum says:
:laugh:
http://philboxing.com/news/story-31604.html

You can't really spin this one Rock.

Mayweather is not afraid to fight Pac and you know it, but the thought of Manny actually having something to hide probably doesn't sit well with you or other Pac fans. It may be posturing for money, but it's not posturing to avoid the fight. Anybody who actually believes Mayweather would NOT want this fight to happen is clearly not using sound logic to reach their conclusion. There is too much money at stake. Even if Floyd did believe that Pac would beat him, he would not walk away from that much cash. I guess you also forgot that Floyd Sr is NOT the only person in the boxing world who has come out and said they think something is fishy about Manny. Whats the big deal? Why can't Manny just take the blood test? If he is declining based on principal alone, that is pretty silly. However, that garbage that Arum spewed about it being "stupid", and bad during training just ain't gonna fly.

Also, once again, your view on Boxing history is slightly askew. It's convenient for a person who loathes Floyd to try and say he "ducked" top welterweights, but without acknowledging the facts of what happened in the time line it just makes you sound bitter and spiteful. Floyd did not fight Cotto after the DLH fight because it made more sense to fight Hatton in terms of money and P4P rankings. Floyd made attempts to fight Cotto before that but Bob Arum refused to let Cotto fight Floyd because he wanted to build his popularity up first. Floyd also made attempts to fight Mosley, but Shane declined. It wasn't until WAY after the fact that Shane started calling Floyd out and trying to get a fight with him just to cash in Mayweather's popularity. Another fun fact about Mosley is that he is an admitted steroid user.

So, these top welterweights that you say Floyd ducked, they really don't exist. Floyd has made attempts to fight both of those guys, and they are the only two fighters of real relevance in the discussion of Floyd Jr fighting at welterweight. Before you go off and blindly follow the bull-crap of a guy like Bob Arum, you might wanna take a trip down memory lane and remember who Bob Arum is. I could make a much better argument that it's Arum who is the one that is bad for the sport, and doesn't care about it's fans, than you can against Floyd. The dude is a cheater and a crook who has been screwing people over for 40 years and that is not exactly news to anybody who follows the sport.

EDIT -

That article you posted lost all it's credibility on the issue in the first sentence. The author basically admits he thinks the steroid issue is not a big deal and shows a clear bias. Right off the bat, he says he has not watched baseball since Barry Bonds was "run" out of the game. What a tool, plain and simple. :rolleyes:

Pacquiao is the media darling right now and people are eating him up. So, rather than telling it like it is, the idiots in mainstream sports media try to spin it back on Floyd so more people will read their crappy articles. Did you actually read the article that author linked to in the first sentence? Both articles fail to acknowledge that it's not ONLY Floyd Sr who has expressed suspicion. The accusations are not all about gaining weight, people understand that fighters usually cut weight. Personally, I never really bought into any of it, but this definitely gives me second thoughts. It's real simple, just take the test.

Arum and Roach made their own demands too, they want a 10 million dollar fine for every pound over 147, a demand they made before the demand for a blood test. The author of that second article then cleverly tries to spin that fact into "Floyd missed weight against Marquez", which you KNOW is a half-truth. Floyd did not go over the contracted weight of 147, he just agreed to pay JMM an extra amount for going over 143. It was a small thing that JMM's crew wanted at the last minute to my understanding, and Mayweather agreed so that the fight would not be in jeopardy. Floyd actually came in at 146, 1 pound under, and he made it clear from the get go when JMM challenged him that he was not going to cut weight. $600,000 is one thing, and that is what he paid JMM for going over 143, but $10 million per pound? That is a bit absurd. A lot more absurd than asking for a stricter drug test. There are legitimate reasons that a person can miss weight, but it's not like Floyd is some sort of offender in that department. He is not Gina Carano. There is no good reason a person can't give a blood test, especially for a fight of this magnitude.

matthughesfan21
12-24-2009, 02:20 AM
I was thinking about this earlier. It's just more positioning by the Mayweather camp. They started this crap months ago starting with the accusations from Floyd Sr. Because they thought Pac wouldn't accept the fight so close after his fight with Cotto and his ear injury, this is now Mayweather's newest way to avoid the fight.

Just as Mayweather has always done, he finds, yet again, another way to avoid an elite welterweight instead of just agreeing to some simple terms and making the fight happen for the fans of the sport. It's always one excuse, one demand after another with Mayweather.

As Arum says:
:laugh:
http://philboxing.com/news/story-31604.htmlI'll repeat, I hate PBF, but wanting strict drug testing for the biggest fight of your life isn't really unreasonable...i would like to know my opponent is playing fair as well

rockdawg21
12-24-2009, 02:30 AM
I completely understand why Pac wouldn't want to give blood before the fight. If it makes him weak, then it makes him weak. It's like having sex before a fight, you just don't do it. Perhaps the same doesn't happen to Mayweather when he gives blood. What I don't understand is why can't the blood simply be drawn AFTER the fight? Both fighters won't be zapped from giving blood and if either fighter has taken anything, it would show for sure after the fight. This whole concept really puts a slap in the face to the NSAC.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also how it's done in the UFC and the Olympics? Testing after the event that is?

J.B.
12-24-2009, 03:10 AM
I completely understand why Pac wouldn't want to give blood before the fight. If it makes him weak, then it makes him weak. It's like having sex before a fight, you just don't do it. Perhaps the same doesn't happen to Mayweather when he gives blood. What I don't understand is why can't the blood simply be drawn AFTER the fight? Both fighters won't be zapped from giving blood and if either fighter has taken anything, it would show for sure after the fight. This whole concept really puts a slap in the face to the NSAC.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also how it's done in the UFC and the Olympics? Testing after the event that is?

Sorry, but that ain't good enough. Matt Hughes said it himself in his book that he don't buy into the "no sex before a fight". Those are just things that some people do. Sure, maybe it does affect Pac differently, but the amount of blood they take for a blood test is minimal, and it's seriously hard to believe and really hilarious if Manny has such a fear of needles that he would be willing to tarnish his legacy and lose tens or millions of dollars.

All the haters of Floyd are just pissed off because they know Floyd is on the right side of this debate. Go read Dan Wetzel's article over at Yahoo Sports, it's pathetic. He is grasping at straws to nut hug Pacquiao and bash Floyd, even going so far as to call asking for the test "unfair". Seriously,are you kidding me? How is asking for it unfair? He still ends up having to admit that Pac needs to take the test. Wetzel also fails to mention the ridiculous demands of Manny's camp. The nuthugging going on of Pac is on a level that has not been seen in years, and frankly it's a joke. There are some writers out there that get it right, but the idiots are an over abundance in todays world of the e-journalist.

I am not an expert on drug testing standards, but I can definitely smell BS. There is no good reason he can't take the same test Floyd will take before the fight. There are certain drugs that don't show up under normal urine testing, and also ways to cleanse your system. I don't think it's an unreasonable request by any means, and Pac needs to man up and do it. If he don't, he could risk his legacy.

As far as the NSAC goes, I'm not the biggest fan of the NSAC anyway. Some people think the NSAC purposely uses lax testing methods so as not to jeopardize the popularity of the sports and their biggest stars.

matthughesfan21
12-24-2009, 03:52 AM
I completely understand why Pac wouldn't want to give blood before the fight. If it makes him weak, then it makes him weak. It's like having sex before a fight, you just don't do it. Perhaps the same doesn't happen to Mayweather when he gives blood. What I don't understand is why can't the blood simply be drawn AFTER the fight? Both fighters won't be zapped from giving blood and if either fighter has taken anything, it would show for sure after the fight. This whole concept really puts a slap in the face to the NSAC.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also how it's done in the UFC and the Olympics? Testing after the event that is?
first off, sex before a fight is myth

second, from what i got out of the article is this would be a similar procedure as done by the US anti-doping agency, it doesn't affect other athletes involved

Third, the amount of blood drawn is not that much, its not like when you go to give blood and give a whole pint, its a syringe full, I don't see how that can drain you

something is fishy about this whole situation

J.B.
12-24-2009, 04:23 AM
What they are asking for is basically random blood and urine tests from January 1st all the way up until the fight. They would take about 3-5 blood tests, and 8-12 urine tests, and the blood would be about 1 tablespoon.

The thing that is also fishy, and something I was not even aware of myself until today is that this was already supposedly agreed upon weeks ago. Now it seems to be an issue. Why is Arum coming out today and lashing out at Floyd and Golden Boy? He is acting like a guilty person acts when they get accused of something, getting all angry loud and obnoxious. I can't stand Arum.

Let's do a quick fact check...

Mayweather agreed to the purse demands

Mayweather agreed to the 8 oz gloves

Mayweather agreed to a 10 million dollar fine for going over 147

Manny's camp won't agree to a thorough and random drug testing procedure that is used in the Olympics

Yet somehow, people are trying to construe that as Floyd trying to get out of the fight by making constant demands? That logic is completely ridiculous.

Ultimately I think this fight is still going to happen, but this could be a big bump in the road if Manny really does have something to hide. Heck, he may not even know he has something to hide, who knows. I would like to believe he is clean, but they are kind of backed into a corner on this one. If he don't take the test, their will always be a bit of a black cloud over his legacy.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 06:05 AM
More proof that Arum is a tool...:rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4768830

Seriously, the whole idea of testing for drugs is to find them if they are there. The method that the USADA uses makes the most sense. It makes the testing completely independent and gives the fighter no control over when or how the test is conducted.

How can Bob Arum sit there and try to use superstition and a phobia of needles to justify not adhering to the tests? Then he is gonna say he thinks they should use the same institutions that are used by the NFL, NBA, and of all things Major League Baseball? Is he serious? Not to say that those institutions are not good, but the whole point of random testing is that it is random. The USADA is not dictated to by anybody else. Arum wants to be able to set the standards, and he is only making himself and Manny look bad by not agreeing to comply with the random tests. We are talking about a tablespoon of blood, and we are supposed to believe that Manny is afraid of needles? Something is weird about this whole thing.

Buc Nasty
12-24-2009, 09:42 AM
Some of you seem to be missing the point here.

Do you think Boxing up until now has been unfair and that fighters are not tested?

Manny's camp are happy to do a test before the press conference and after the fight, the standard drug testing procedure that has been put in place by the sanctioning bodies and the state commissions. I don't see why some are suspicious about Manny because for the record, the Nevada State Athletic Commission, which has overseen 10 of his last 14 fights, insist Pacquiao is as clean as the tears of a saint. Why should anyone bend over backwards to do what Floyd's camp wants to do? Its just a disruption tactic and as much as I love Floyd he is is always looking for some kind of mental edge.

This is completely unnecessary because the testing procedures are in place and serve their purpose. The test AFTER the fight is the definitive one anyway, right?

I hope Floyd will just man up, accept the current procedures are fine and give us the fight.

rockdawg21
12-24-2009, 11:34 AM
Some of you seem to be missing the point here.

Do you think Boxing up until now has been unfair and that fighters are not tested?

Manny's camp are happy to do a test before the press conference and after the fight, the standard drug testing procedure that has been put in place by the sanctioning bodies and the state commissions. I don't see why some are suspicious about Manny because for the record, the Nevada State Athletic Commission, which has overseen 10 of his last 14 fights, insist Pacquiao is as clean as the tears of a saint. Why should anyone bend over backwards to do what Floyd's camp wants to do? Its just a disruption tactic and as much as I love Floyd he is is always looking for some kind of mental edge.

This is completely unnecessary because the testing procedures are in place and serve their purpose. The test AFTER the fight is the definitive one anyway, right?

I hope Floyd will just man up, accept the current procedures are fine and give us the fight.
Floyd thinks he is God of boxing. If I were a foreigner, having won several titles in say, Australia, then their biggest star demands I be tested by the governing body of the Olympics, I would be skeptical if the tests are going to be handled legitimately as well.

It's not about doping, it's about fear on Mayweather's part, and about being disrespected and insulted on Pac's part. Mayweather's going to cost himself the biggest payday of his career because he can't stop being a jackass. All this nonsense for a guy who "lacks skill". :rolleyes:

As you said, it's the test AFTER the fight that's definitive.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Buc Nasty and Rock, please explain to me why a fighter should be able to dictate when they are going to be tested? That is what both of you are saying should happen. Manny should have no control over when he is tested. Are either of you experts in drug testing? If not, how can you say it's only the test after the fight that is definitive?

Rather than take off your blinders and admit that something stinks you are following the lead of Bob Arum and Co and then trying to spin it back on Floyd at the same time. Just like every time I bring up irrefutable historical facts they go ignored because you, Rock, have a predetermined hatred of Floyd and refuse to hear anything that doesn't make Floyd look bad. The ridiculousness of your logic is of epic proportions.

Rock, you say this is not about doping, but rather about being insulted by a foreigner and Mayweather being scared. Would you please explain that logic to me? Not long ago, you admitted that you didn't think Floyd was scared of Manny, and now ignore the fact that Floyd adhered to every one of Arum and Co's demands. Now you are saying that Floyd is doing this whole thing because he is scared? Come on bro... this stuff with the Olympic style drug testing was agreed upon by Shaefer and Arum weeks ago and only now is it a problem.

Bottom line... it looks like Arum did not consult with Pac's camp before hand about the testing and Ariza and Roach had to backpeddle when they found out. Does that mean he is using something? Not for sure, but there are a lot of skeptics who think Alex Ariza is dirty. I'm honestly not aware of all the details of his past, but that in connection with this refusal to take the test have raised some legit suspicions from myself, and many others. What is so hard about just taking the damn test, and why do Arum, Roach, and Pac's fans get so bent out of shape about it? Why did Ariza come out and say 3 weeks ago that Manny doesn't know what goes in his body? There are too many looming questions and Manny could clear it all up by just taking the test.

Buc, you asked why should they "bend over backwards" to do what Mayweather's camp wants? The simple answer is because Manny needs and wants this fight every bit as much as Floyd does and this is the only issue that Floyd has basically demanded without any budge on. Floyd gave in to their purse demands, he gave them the 8 oz gloves, and he gave them the 10 million dollar fine clause. The only thing Floyd is asking for, at this point, is a stricter drug testing regiment. Then, Roach and Arum basically come out two weeks later all pissed off and tell Mayweather to "go to hell" like a boyfriend who just got caught cheating but rather than man up, he gets loud, angry, and obnoxious. Then Arum tries to actually say things like "my fighter has a phobia of needles". Are you FN' kidding me? A guy who gets punched in the face for a living and has tats is afraid of needles?

Bob Arum is the one who can go to hell. Talk about looking for an edge, and things being unfair, Arum is king sh*t of turd mountain when it comes to being unfair. He has paid officials and fixed fights numerous times, and that is a known fact. That's who all the Pacamaniacs are taking their cues from right now...:rolleyes:

Miss Foxy
12-24-2009, 02:52 PM
Buc Nasty and Rock, please explain to me why a fighter should be able to dictate when they are going to be tested? That is what both of you are saying should happen. Manny should have no control over when he is tested. Are either of you experts in drug testing? If not, how can you say it's only the test after the fight that is definitive?

Rather than take off your blinders and admit that something stinks you are following the lead of Bob Arum and Co and then trying to spin it back on Floyd at the same time. Just like every time I bring up irrefutable historical facts they go ignored because you, Rock, have a predetermined hatred of Floyd and refuse to hear anything that doesn't make Floyd look bad. The ridiculousness of your logic is of epic proportions.

Rock, you say this is not about doping, but rather about being insulted by a foreigner and Mayweather being scared. Would you please explain that logic to me? Not long ago, you admitted that you didn't think Floyd was scared of Manny, and now ignore the fact that Floyd adhered to every one of Arum and Co's demands. Now you are saying that Floyd is doing this whole thing because he is scared? Come on bro... this stuff with the Olympic style drug testing was agreed upon by Shaefer and Arum weeks ago and only now is it a problem.

Bottom line... it looks like Arum did not consult with Pac's camp before hand about the testing and Ariza and Roach had to backpeddle when they found out. Does that mean he is using something? Not for sure, but there are a lot of skeptics who think Alex Ariza is dirty. I'm honestly not aware of all the details of his past, but that in connection with this refusal to take the test have raised some legit suspicions from myself, and many others. What is so hard about just taking the damn test, and why do Arum, Roach, and Pac's fans get so bent out of shape about it? Why did Ariza come out and say 3 weeks ago that Manny doesn't know what goes in his body? There are too many looming questions and Manny could clear it all up by just taking the test.

Buc, you asked why should they "bend over backwards" to do what Mayweather's camp wants? The simple answer is because Manny needs and wants this fight every bit as much as Floyd does and this is the only issue that Floyd has basically demanded without any budge on. Floyd gave in to their purse demands, he gave them the 8 oz gloves, and he gave them the 10 million dollar fine clause. The only thing Floyd is asking for, at this point, is a stricter drug testing regiment. Then, Roach and Arum basically come out two weeks later all pissed off and tell Mayweather to "go to hell" like a boyfriend who just got caught cheating but rather than man up, he gets loud, angry, and obnoxious. Then Arum tries to actually say things like "my fighter has a phobia of needles". Are you FN' kidding me? A guy who gets punched in the face for a living and has tats is afraid of needles?

Bob Arum is the one who can go to hell. Talk about looking for an edge, and things being unfair, Arum is king sh*t of turd mountain when it comes to being unfair. He has paid officials and fixed fights numerous times, and that is a known fact. That's who all the Pacamaniacs are taking their cues from right now...:rolleyes:
Well put my brotha!!!:wink:

J.B.
12-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Arum's mouth just makes this whole mess even worse for Pacquiao, but if he don't man up and take the test now, his whole legacy could be at stake.

I never thought I would see the day where even Oscar De la Hoya and basically the whole Boxing world would just suddenly be forced into agreeing with Floyd Mayweather. This whole thing is almost surreal now.

Oscar comes right out and says the punches from Mosley, Vargas, and Pacquiao all felt the same. Subsequently, we know now that Mosley and Vargas were doping, so you can now basically add Oscar to the list of people accusing Pac.

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/1457/de_la_hoya_blog_pacquiaomayweather_impasse/

J.B.
12-24-2009, 04:37 PM
Looks like now sources are saying that ANY Golden Boy fighter who fights Pac would also ask for the same Olympic style drug testing from the USADA, including Juan Manuel Marquez, who has been eyed as a replacement should the negotiations with Floyd fall through.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24307

I am still highly confident that this will work itself out, and it may even be an elaborate promoting ploy by both sides, but it's hard to say. The time line of how things have unfolded over the last few weeks cast some serious doubts over Team Pacquiao.

logrus
12-24-2009, 04:42 PM
Manny is tested for every fight leading up to it and afterwords. The cry for an Olympic test is funny considering he's never asked for one up until now. If HgH is such a concern of boxers, then why not make every test and every fight under these same guidelines. In the recent years why not step up what we do in terms of testing.

Steroids and HgH have a cycle in which they are present in the body. Users as well as manufactures have that day down to an exact number. So even if they want a blood test odds are that by that date there is no signs of it in there system. Sure its possible to still test it, usuqally fighter miss the cut off by 1-3 days based on the levels found in their system. Which is nothing more then an extra day on or a lack of a proper cycle.

Anyways, I love how the challenger is making this huge list of requests vs the champ lol.

logrus
12-24-2009, 04:50 PM
Looks like now sources are saying that ANY Golden Boy fighter who fights Pac would also ask for the same Olympic style drug testing from the USADA, including Juan Manuel Marquez, who has been eyed as a replacement should the negotiations with Floyd fall through.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24307

I am still highly confident that this will work itself out, and it may even be an elaborate promoting ploy by both sides, but it's hard to say. The time line of how things have unfolded over the last few weeks cast some serious doubts over Team Pacquiao.

Seems pretty pointless considering the way the last 2 fights went.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Manny is tested for every fight leading up to it and afterwords. The cry for an Olympic test is funny considering he's never asked for one up until now. If HgH is such a concern of boxers, then why not make every test and every fight under these same guidelines. In the recent years why not step up what we do in terms of testing.

Steroids and HgH have a cycle in which they are present in the body. Users as well as manufactures have that day down to an exact number. So even if they want a blood test odds are that by that date there is no signs of it in there system. Sure its possible to still test it, usuqally fighter miss the cut off by 1-3 days based on the levels found in their system. Which is nothing more then an extra day on or a lack of a proper cycle.

Anyways, I love how the challenger is making this huge list of requests vs the champ lol.

I agree, we should step up the testing for all athletes. What you are saying about cycling is true, but you missed that point that the Olympic style tests are done by the USADA and are completely random. Which means they don't know when the test is coming so they can't plan it out ahead of time. You, and the other Floyd haters may not like it, but there is no spinning out of it, if Manny is clean he should have no problem taking the test.

Please show me the HUGE list of demands Floyd has made...considering he agreed to pretty much every single demand of Bob Arum and Co and this is the only thing he has demanded at this point. Seems pretty silly to be so afraid of random blood testing, especially when so much money is at stake.

If it ever turned out to be true that Manny is doping, I swear some people's heads would explode in disbelief. The others would live in denial and say that it was all Ariza's fault and Manny had no knowledge. Just like Margarito's trainer tried taking the fall for him when they used illegal hand wraps. Guess who else defended Margarito...Bob Arum...go figure.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 05:05 PM
Seems pretty pointless considering the way the last 2 fights went.

Some think Marquez won, but I will agree it would be kinda silly

J.B.
12-24-2009, 05:13 PM
Oh boy, here comes Gary Shaw into the mix...:laugh:

Shaw would ask for the same if Tim Bradley were to fight Pac...

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24313

It's only going to get worse. Pac must take the test.

Buc Nasty
12-24-2009, 05:20 PM
Buc Nasty and Rock, please explain to me why a fighter should be able to dictate when they are going to be tested? That is what both of you are saying should happen. Manny should have no control over when he is tested. Are either of you experts in drug testing? If not, how can you say it's only the test after the fight that is definitive?

Rather than take off your blinders and admit that something stinks you are following the lead of Bob Arum and Co and then trying to spin it back on Floyd at the same time. Just like every time I bring up irrefutable historical facts they go ignored because you, Rock, have a predetermined hatred of Floyd and refuse to hear anything that doesn't make Floyd look bad. The ridiculousness of your logic is of epic proportions.

Rock, you say this is not about doping, but rather about being insulted by a foreigner and Mayweather being scared. Would you please explain that logic to me? Not long ago, you admitted that you didn't think Floyd was scared of Manny, and now ignore the fact that Floyd adhered to every one of Arum and Co's demands. Now you are saying that Floyd is doing this whole thing because he is scared? Come on bro... this stuff with the Olympic style drug testing was agreed upon by Shaefer and Arum weeks ago and only now is it a problem.

Bottom line... it looks like Arum did not consult with Pac's camp before hand about the testing and Ariza and Roach had to backpeddle when they found out. Does that mean he is using something? Not for sure, but there are a lot of skeptics who think Alex Ariza is dirty. I'm honestly not aware of all the details of his past, but that in connection with this refusal to take the test have raised some legit suspicions from myself, and many others. What is so hard about just taking the damn test, and why do Arum, Roach, and Pac's fans get so bent out of shape about it? Why did Ariza come out and say 3 weeks ago that Manny doesn't know what goes in his body? There are too many looming questions and Manny could clear it all up by just taking the test.

Buc, you asked why should they "bend over backwards" to do what Mayweather's camp wants? The simple answer is because Manny needs and wants this fight every bit as much as Floyd does and this is the only issue that Floyd has basically demanded without any budge on. Floyd gave in to their purse demands, he gave them the 8 oz gloves, and he gave them the 10 million dollar fine clause. The only thing Floyd is asking for, at this point, is a stricter drug testing regiment. Then, Roach and Arum basically come out two weeks later all pissed off and tell Mayweather to "go to hell" like a boyfriend who just got caught cheating but rather than man up, he gets loud, angry, and obnoxious. Then Arum tries to actually say things like "my fighter has a phobia of needles". Are you FN' kidding me? A guy who gets punched in the face for a living and has tats is afraid of needles?

Bob Arum is the one who can go to hell. Talk about looking for an edge, and things being unfair, Arum is king sh*t of turd mountain when it comes to being unfair. He has paid officials and fixed fights numerous times, and that is a known fact. That's who all the Pacamaniacs are taking their cues from right now...:rolleyes:

Some of you seem to be missing the point here.

Do you think Boxing up until now has been unfair and that fighters are not tested?

Manny's camp are happy to do a test before the press conference and after the fight, the standard drug testing procedure that has been put in place by the sanctioning bodies and the state commissions. I don't see why some are suspicious about Manny because for the record, the Nevada State Athletic Commission, which has overseen 10 of his last 14 fights, insist Pacquiao is as clean as the tears of a saint. Why should anyone bend over backwards to do what Floyd's camp wants to do? Its just a disruption tactic and as much as I love Floyd he is is always looking for some kind of mental edge.

This is completely unnecessary because the testing procedures are in place and serve their purpose. The test AFTER the fight is the definitive one anyway, right?

I'm asking if anyone knows for sure?

I hope Floyd will just man up, accept the current procedures are fine and give us the fight.

I've pretty much answered your questions already dude.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 05:28 PM
I've pretty much answered your questions already dude.

Well, your answer is weak. Plain and simple. All the facts of what is going on are right in front of everyone and people are having some serious legitimate doubts.

What is wrong with having a completely random test?

Why did Alex Ariza come out 3 weeks ago and say Manny does not know what goes in his body?

Why did Freddie Roach change his story multiple times about when Pac would offer to give blood?

Why did it take Bob Arum two weeks to come out and make an issue out of this when he had already agreed to it?

Anybody who can't see that something is not right with this is blind.

rearnakedchoke
12-24-2009, 05:38 PM
i don't buy the fact that pac is superstitious or that he is trying to hide something ... i think he is just pissed that he has to give into this request .... LOL ..

they'll still fight, but this is fun to watch .... to make it even better, they should reveal the test results on Maury ...

Manny you are ?????

J.B.
12-24-2009, 05:43 PM
Here is what the Great Bob Arum thinks of MMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4R5UR_qeM&feature=related

I know thats old, but Bas makes an interesting point about Arum when he references the comments Arum supposedly made in the past about letting the Blacks and Latinos fight in the ring while he sits outside and counts the money. If he had to, Arum would throw Pacquaio right under the bus and run away as fast as possible. Arum is a snake and anybody who believes anything he says is delusional.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 05:44 PM
i don't buy the fact that pac is superstitious or that he is trying to hide something ... i think he is just pissed that he has to give into this request .... LOL ..

they'll still fight, but this is fun to watch .... to make it even better, they should reveal the test results on Maury ...

Manny you are ?????

If there is nothing to hide, he needs to take the test and clear his name.

rearnakedchoke
12-24-2009, 05:49 PM
If there is nothing to hide, he needs to take the test and clear his name.

oh, i agree ... i don't think he is a cheater ... but he probably thinks floyd wants to choose his entrance music next or something .. i say, take the test .. but he really doesn't have a choice ... if he doesn't, people will say he is a cheater and that he was the one to screw up the fight of the century (even though we are only 10 years in)

Buc Nasty
12-24-2009, 05:52 PM
1. Well, your answer is weak. Plain and simple.

2. All the facts of what is going on are right in front of everyone and people are having some serious legitimate doubts. What is wrong with having a completely random test?

3. Why did Alex Ariza come out 3 weeks ago and say Manny does not know what goes in his body?

4. Why did Freddie Roach change his story multiple times about when Pac would offer to give blood?

5. Why did it take Bob Arum two weeks to come out and make an issue out of this when he had already agreed to it?

6. Anybody who can't see that something is not right with this is blind.

1. How is it weak exactly?

2. Why should this fight be treated any different to another? Give me one good reason.

3. Who is Ariza? I don't know anything about this guy but I've not read what you have obviously!

4. Again, I don't know about this I've only read one response from Freddie so if you can show me others I'll read them.

5. The guy is a tool I agree, but how do you know he agreed to the drug tests? A quote from the other camp?

6. The only thing I see wrong is the Mayweather camp demanding something that has never been deemed neccessary before. I think it is you who are blind.

You're the one with some sort of silly problem here, 'plain and simple'. Manny feels weak after having blood taken and I know people who feel the same. I've driven shortly after a blood test and didn't feel right, and no I don't have a needle phobia.

I just want to see it happen as I love both fighters, this is like Shogun/Machida for me but the only ones creating a problem is Floyd's side.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 06:01 PM
oh, i agree ... i don't think he is a cheater ... but he probably thinks floyd wants to choose his entrance music next or something .. i say, take the test .. but he really doesn't have a choice ... if he doesn't, people will say he is a cheater and that he was the one to screw up the fight of the century (even though we are only 10 years in)

I hope he is not cheating. That would be bad for everyone involved and ultimately for the sport.

Manny is not dumb, and he plays just as many games as Mayweather does. His last 3 fights have all almost fallen through because of contract negotiations. People try to portray Manny as being somewhat naive and act like he is a foreigner who don't understand what is going on. That is bullcrap.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 06:11 PM
1. How is it weak exactly?

2. Why should this fight be treated any different to another? Give me one good reason.

3. Who is Ariza? I don't know anything about this guy but I've not read what you have obviously!

4. Again, I don't know about this I've only read one response from Freddie so if you can show me others I'll read them.

5. The guy is a tool I agree, but how do you know he agreed to the drug tests? A quote from the other camp?

6. The only thing I see wrong is the Mayweather camp demanding something that has never been deemed neccessary before. I think it is you who are blind.

You're the one with some sort of silly problem here, 'plain and simple'. Manny feels weak after having blood taken and I know people who feel the same. I've driven shortly after a blood test and didn't feel right, and no I don't have a needle phobia.

I just want to see it happen as I love both fighters, this is like Shogun/Machida for me but the only ones creating a problem is Floyd's side.

1. It's weak because you failed to address any of the facts of the situation and you are buying into the Bob Arum school of thought and misinformation.

2. Because it's the biggest fight the sport has ever seen. However, for the record, I am all for these types of tests being administered in ANY fight, not just Pac's fights.

3. Alex Ariza is Manny Pacquaio's conditioning trainer and corner man. He came out a few weeks ago and said Manny doesn't know what goes in his own body because he gives him everything.

4. Read around bro. A few weeks ago after Ariza made the mess with his comments, Roach came out and said that Manny could be tested ANYTIME. Then, a week later he changes his tune and says no less than 30 days before a fight, and now it's within 5 days. Something is clearly fishy.

5. It has been reported everywhere man. Two weeks ago, Arum said everything was locked up except the venue. Arum had no problem with the testing until Manny and his camp objected, which clearly took a couple weeks to work it's way through their grapevine.

6. You think I'm blind, but yet you believe the words of Bob Arum. :rolleyes: You may think Floyd's side is "creating a problem", but really they are creating a solution. If Manny is clean, there should be no problem with the test. Testing SHOULD be completely random and no fighter should get to decide WHEN they are tested. Saying that it makes him feel weak is quite frankly another pretty weak argument. The amount of blood taken is very minimal, and he needs to shut up and take the test.

Buc Nasty
12-24-2009, 06:25 PM
I've not mentioned one statement from Bob Arum these are my thoughts entirely - I see no reason to treat this differently to any other fight. If the sanctioning bodies decide all fights are to be treated this way then fine, I'm all with that and I'll read these facts you speak of, but I don't see why after 40 fights Floyd all of a sudden cannot fight under the same testing procedures.

Its psychological warefare and nothing else, the fight will happen anyway.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 06:37 PM
I've not mentioned one statement from Bob Arum these are my thoughts entirely - I see no reason to treat this differently to any other fight. If the sanctioning bodies decide all fights are to be treated this way then fine, I'm all with that and I'll read these facts you speak of, but I don't see why after 40 fights Floyd all of a sudden cannot fight under the same testing procedures.

Its psychological warefare and nothing else, the fight will happen anyway.

They can be your thoughts, but it's still the same perspective that Arum shares. You are taking the view that this is all Mayweather's fault and he is demanding something that is completely ridiculous. It's not really that crazy to ask for a stricter testing policy in a fight of this magnitude, especially considering how big the issue of steroids in sports has been nowadays.

It's only psychological warfare if Manny has something to hide. If there is nothing to hide, there should be no problem taking the test. That's where Pac and his camp kinda screwed the pooch. They should have never started all this double talk and these petty excuses. It's makes them look incredibly guilty. Who knows, maybe they are playing head games right back. :ninja:

I think the fight will happen too. However, in this chess game Mayweather definitely has Pac in check at the time being.

logrus
12-24-2009, 08:15 PM
I agree, we should step up the testing for all athletes. What you are saying about cycling is true, but you missed that point that the Olympic style tests are done by the USADA and are completely random. Which means they don't know when the test is coming so they can't plan it out ahead of time. You, and the other Floyd haters may not like it, but there is no spinning out of it, if Manny is clean he should have no problem taking the test.

Please show me the HUGE list of demands Floyd has made...considering he agreed to pretty much every single demand of Bob Arum and Co and this is the only thing he has demanded at this point. Seems pretty silly to be so afraid of random blood testing, especially when so much money is at stake.

If it ever turned out to be true that Manny is doping, I swear some people's heads would explode in disbelief. The others would live in denial and say that it was all Ariza's fault and Manny had no knowledge. Just like Margarito's trainer tried taking the fall for him when they used illegal hand wraps. Guess who else defended Margarito...Bob Arum...go figure.

The way people are with phobias is a strange thing. I know a guy who has a few tattoos but pretty much passed out when his kid had to get am Epi shot lol. My sister is really weird with needles. She is fine when you talk about rawing blood but when it comes time she pretty much will pass out and a couple days later if you bring it up her face goes white.

I really don't think Manny is on HgH. Even though he could of masked it the constant number of fights he has within a year its almost pointless to go on it cause your pretty much coming right off it. At this point the only steroid shocker for me would be if Matt tested positive otherwise I pretty much wouldn't doubt if everyone was doin it or did it.

J.B.
12-24-2009, 08:36 PM
Also, just to nip another part of this topic in the bud once again...

This is not Floyd acting like he is a "God" of Boxing or making all sorts of demands while Pacquiao sits back and asks for nothing.

Manny has gotten his way on pretty much every aspect that has come up in the negotiations for this fight. Regardless of the fact that Pac is the Champion, this fight is much bigger than that, and they both need each other.

The request for a test such as this may seem like an unprecedented concept because it's never actually been done before in this manner, but similar types unique nuances have always found their way into the contracts of big fights over the years. Everything from glove sizes and catch weights, to ring sizes and time restrictions and other misc things. So, it's not really out of the ordinary for these types of hangups to occur, however in this case it is greatly magnified because of the amount of exposure this fight has gotten. Some say that the test is overly invasive and unwarranted, but when you look at the bigger picture, it should not be a big deal whatsoever. There are enough looming questions surrounding the steroid situation at this point, and it's more than just a propaganda campaign started by Floyd Sr, which is clear as day to see now. The list of doubters has grown significantly, and many who probably were already suspicious are just now starting say anything about it publicly.

This is Manny's chance to shut everyone up and clear his name. If he agrees to the test and passes, there is no way anybody can doubt him. All the double talk and stupid Bob Arum quotes are not helping his case right now though. I don't think either man is going to let this fight fall by the wayside, not with that much money at stake. However, I do think the debate on the testing is a real one, and it's basically flipped the boxing world upside down overnight.

J.B.
12-25-2009, 09:06 AM
Well, things have only seemed to get worse in the last 12 hours, as if that was possible. Merry Christmas Boxing fans.

Arum seems pretty trigger happy on pulling the plug on this fight and going in a different direction, even quicker than he really needs to, which I find rather odd. Supposedly he is in talks with Paulie Malignaggi as a possible replacement, which is not very much of a replacement by any means. Experts pretty much figured they had until at least Monday or even Tuesday to get everything finalized at the very latest. So, I'm still holding out a slight belief that more will transpire over the weekend.

If the fight really is off, this will only add fuel to the fire over this whole controversy. At this point, people are basically starting to think that Pacquiao has something to hide by making such a big deal over this. All the double talk from Arum and his camp has really done a number on his credibility in the last few weeks, but now they are making it even worse by making threats to sue Floyd Jr, Floyd Sr, and Golden Boy.

First of all, if you are gonna release a statement to the press that says you are filing "Libel, Slander, and Defamation" lawsuits against somebody, you might not wanna include a challenge that says; "dont be a coward and face me in the ring, mano-a-mano and shut your big, pretty mouth, so we can show the world who is the true king of the ring". I mean, seriously, which is it? Does he want to box Floyd, or sue him? Because I can already imagine Floyd pulling up to the courthouse in a Limo, wearing a $10,000 suit. One of these fights Manny actually has a good shot at winning, and it's certainly not the lawsuit. Floyd Jr has never publicly accused Manny of anything, at least not to my knowledge. Now, Manny could waste a bunch of money going after Schaefer, maybe Ellerbee, and Floyd Sr, but the scope of the first amendment is pretty broad when it comes to opinions, and those cases are not always easy to win.

Not to mention that if he were to seriously go through with suing the Mayweathers and Golden Boy, you can pretty much guarantee the fight is off for a LONG time, probably for good. All this over some legit questions and a few extra blood tests? I can understand his pride being hurt if he is clean, but he needs to realize that he is a worldwide celebrity and he cannot just say things like "I don't know what a steroid looks like". It just sounds bad. He needs to understand that there is a lot of controversy about steroids right now in all professional sports.

Sure, a part of this move by Mayweather was most likely part of the usual negotiating tactics, and I must say it really was a pure stroke of genius because it obviously struck a really raw nerve. Regardless, the request is fair to both fighters and Pac is damaging his own reputation by taking this road. He should take this opportunity to clear his name by taking the tests and then fighting Mayweather. He would also help in setting a standard that needs to be implemented in the sport.

I think something is seriously fishy about the whole situation. If Pac is not trying to hide any steroids then something else has really gotten to his brain. He is jeopardizing a ton of money and making himself look bad all at the same time. There are also rumors that he has been partying like Tiger Woods recently and his marriage is in trouble. I wonder if things are really getting to his head, or is something else going on? Only time will tell... Either way, this was not a good week for Pacamaniacs...

rockdawg21
12-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Merry Christmas!

Awesome analysis here, didn't make it all the way through it, but there's some great points here.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-10947-Indianapolis-Fight-Sports-Examiner~y2009m12d25-Fairplay-Propaganda-Fear-Racism-Examining-the-FACTS-regarding-Mayweathers-steroids-accusations

Let's say you work your butt off as a construction laborer, a fireman, a janitor, or pretty much just any decent living making money through good old hard work. You worked yourself hard enough for you to get raises, promotions and bonuses to a point that one day you drive home with a brand new BMW- paid off!

Sounds nice doesn't? I should know, I myself purchased a luxury automobile thanks to hard work and skills. I earned it, and that's why I'm happy having purchased it.

Then next thing you know, you got some jealous neighbors spreading gossip around the block that you might be selling drugs for you to be able to afford an expensive vehicle because flat out in their opinion, your job as a (insert occupation of choice here, in my case a writer) doesn't pay enough for you to buy such things.

Let's say you brush it off, because it's stupid right? It's baseless, childish and pointless. Call it envy, jealousy or whatever. You know you're legit, so why waste your time worrying about what these gossipmongers say. Besides, what proof do they got, right? But what if they keep up the rumors even buying an ad on your town newspaper just to tell the world that they think you're dealing drugs to pay for the luxuries you have in life.

Tell me, how would you feel?

And out of nowhere they ask you to go out of your way and inconvenience yourself just so you can disprove their baseless accusations for their benefit. I mean, some people might just go ahead and do it, I don't know about you, but to me, that's absolutely BS. It's not as if you're not willing to show them your pay stubs and show them how you earn your money to buy the things you own, you actually are willing to, but they also want to put you on surveillance and constant monitoring. AND ALL BECAUSE OF WHAT?!?!?! TO SATISFY THEIR BASELESS DOUBTS? For all you know they just want tick you off just to get to you because of their jealousy. Who in their right minds would oblige to that?

Well, that's pretty much what The Mayweathers and Golden Boy Promotions have done to Pacquiao. They started a rumor, rolled with, and without any form of logical and concrete evidence, they want an elaborate investigation on a person off it. Crazy ain't it? Crazier is the fact that some people actually fell for it. I don't know what you want to call it, but to me it sounds more like propaganda, misdirection, excuses and downright cheap. A fight is a fight, man. Boxing has it's set of rules that everybody follows. If one person feels the sport is not doing an adequate job to protect it's athletes, then why not question the process itself instead of pointing fingers at an innocent bystander? Singling out one person and accusing him of serious wrongdoing is no joke. Actually in some countries, it's a crime. But that's a different story for a different day.

Is it jealousy? Prejudice? A grudge? Shoot, some people might even go as far and claim racism. Not saying they are right, but I've heard it on less implicating situations.

One has to wonder how a great match-up has come down to this? What supposedly was the biggest money-making fight in the history of prize fighting is being cheapened by baseless accusations of steroids and media manipulation through press releases and misdirection.

Perhaps some parties are trying to sway the public, especially those who have not followed boxing closely in the past decade and make them serve the selfish purpose of a handful few. Like they said, ignorance is bliss, so if you wish not to face facts and truth, I strongly advice you to close this page and move on to the next because my aim is to lay down facts and separate it from all the nonsense you've been reading and hearing.

FACTS:

The Nevada State Athletic commission conducts scientific and state of the art drug testing before fights. Fighters that have been caught with some form of banned substance in their system include Fernando Vargas, Ricardo Mayorga, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and a long list of many others. Pacquiao has never failed a drug test, even back when blood was drawn from him prior to his first fight against Erik Morales in 2005. Pacquiao lost that fight by the way and said after the fight that the blood drawn from him caused him to feel weak. So you can say, Pacquiao speaks from experience as to why he refuses to give blood any time near fight night which Team Mayweather is subjecting him to do. As a compromise, Pacquiao is willing to submit to a blood test immediately after the fight. If there is banned substance to be detected in Pacquiao's blood 48 hours before the fight, then it is likely to remain there 48 seconds after fighting Mayweather. The key point here is "Pacquiao does not want to be tested before the fight because it weakens him".

And we are NOT talking about just a drop of blood here. Here's what 2008 Jamaican Olympics sprinter Asafa Powell said in an article publised by Yahoo.com,

Asafa Powell complained he was tested excessively during the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, in which he won a gold medal as a member of his nation’s 4 x 100 meter relay team. “I got pretty upset two days ago because since I have been here, they have tested me four times,” Powell said during the 2008 Games. “They’ve taken so much blood from us we’re going to be very weak before the final.”

Regardless if the Mayweathers really think Pacquiao is on some performance enhancing drug or not, it seems like they are trying to gain not only a physical edge on Pacquiao but a psychological edge as well. First of all, Pacquiao's power is his main advantage over Mayweather. The blood drawing will affect him more than it will Mayweather since Mayweather doesn't throw anywhere near as many punches as Pacquiao nor does he throw it as hard. He uses his feet and runs away from his opponent. By drawing Pacquiao's blood, he will compromise Pacquiao's power in the fight on top of the fact that he is being forced by the Mayweathers to bend backwards for no logical reason.

Can you imagine being a drug-free employee who has passed all your urine tests then all of a sudden your company suspects you for drug use and subjects you to a rigorous drug screening while nobodyelse around you has to undergo it.

WHY PACQUIAO?

Pacquiao has NEVER failed any form of drug test in his entire professional boxing career. Also, there are no indications in his body mass that suggests wrongdoing. Is it really because they think he is on steroids or because he is simply on top of the boxing world right now? A small man from a third-world country whom people said wasn't supposed to reach this far high ever in his career.

If you check Pacquiao's weight in the past 5 years, there has been no abnormal fluctuations to even begin speculating he is on steroids. He may have gone up in weight classes for weigh-ins but his normal weight and fight weights have remained consistent. I don't know about you but from what I know, steroids helps a person get more muscles, and muscles way heavier than fat, so why has Pacquiao not blown up in weight if he truly is on steroids or HGH like athletes in the past that have been found guilty of using them? Two words, Mark McGuire.

Here's Pacquiao's weights in the last 4 years:

Pacquiao vs. Morales 3: November, 2006 - Pacquiao's weight inside the ring was 144 lbs.

Pacquiao vs. Barrera 2: October 2007 He was 144 during fight night.

Pacquiao vs. Marquez 2: March 2008 - Pacquiao's weight during the fight was 145.

Pacquiao vs. Diaz: June 2008 - Pacquiao went up to lightweight for the first time and on fight night re-hydrated to 147.

Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya: December, 2008 - The limit for the fight was 147 and on fight night Pacquiao weighed 148 1/2.

Pacquaio vs. Hatton: May, 2009 - Pacquiao weighed 148.

Pacquiao vs. Cotto: November, 2009 - There were no in-ring weights given but my insiders told me Pacquiao weighed around 149.

That's a five pound increase in 4 years!!! Wow! Steroids huh?!?

All this steroids talk started when Floyd Mayweather Sr. mentioned something about it in an interview weeks after the fighter he was training, Ricky Hatton, was knocked out by Pacquiao in 2 rounds. Mayweather could not believe how someone who was just fighting at the 130 limit a year before can move up to 140 and knock out the lineal champ just like that. A fighter can drain weight by several means and ways but their actual weight is reflected during fight night. So what logical reason did Floyd Sr. really have to accuse Pacquiao of steroids? I'll tell you what- HIS IMAGINATION.

I actually feel bad for the casual fans who only go by what they hear. A lot of them have really been mislead by the play of words from the press release by Golden Boy Promotions and Team Mayweather. There really are people now thinking Pacquiao is on steroids despite not having any solid basis to do so. But I guess that's why most people who know anything about boxing and have followed it closely through the years have sided on sense and reason.

HBO's ringside judge Harold Lederman, a veteran figure in boxing and somebody who has seen pretty much all of Pacquiao's fights in Las Vegas said he did not see any indication in Pacquiao's body, stature and any reason whatsoever to believe Pacquiao is taking any illegal drug. In an appearance at The Boxing Truth radio show two weeks ago, Lederman said, "I can't see him using any form of performance enhancing drugs to get where he's at. Listen, anything is possible but really, I highly really doubt it. Nobody's ever said a word about it and he just doesn't seem to be like a guy that's cut like a guy that's on steroids."



and also said,

"You can't get away with that (steroids) in Vegas. I just don't see how you could. Vegas tests you before the fight. Vegas tests you after the fight. And I believe right now the test is for 30 steroids. The technology is getting too good, you can't fool them anymore you know, i guess unless you stop taking the steroids weeks before the fight nad it's all out your system, I don't know. In all honesty I just don't think that he's using anything. He's done it on his own with hard work and good training and excellent technique and all the other things that we see."

We are talking about an objective veteran observer of the sport here. So you choose who to believe. Mayweather Sr., Floyd Jr.'s dad and the trainer of someone Pacquiao just knocked out a few months ago and a former convicted drug dealer, or Lederman who is not part of any camp and is simply a first-hand observer who has seen things up-close through the years.

This is really an absurd argument to have especially when Floyd can just agree to the usual procedures of his occupation like he has done in the past. Why all this fuss over Pacquiao? Didn't he say it himself that Pacquiao is an easy fight and that the Filipino is one-dimensional and lacks skill to beat him. So what is it really? Talk is cheap. Now to all the people there with opinions, make sure you have done your adequate research. Please do your research then feel free to tell me what you really came up with. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding says, Mayweather simply has a history of avoiding the best fighters available to him. I don't need to elaborate, like I said, do your research; people lie, facts don't.

Note: You have to understand that Golden Boy Promotion's Press release was written according to their design and was intended to sway the public's opinion to what they want them to think. Pacquiao never said personally that he was afraid of needles and matter of fact he is not. He did not disagree about having his blood taken, he just refused to do it near the fight itself. Accordingly, he agreed to even have his blood taken immediately after the fight. What drug can they not find 48 seconds after the fight that they can 48 hours before it? Pacquiao had submitted to physicals in the past wherein his blood was taken, most recently during his training camp for Ricky Hatton. Pacquiao has always passed all kinds of tests with flying colors. Also, contrary to what Paulie Malignaggi said that Pacquiao didn't use to knock out opponents in the past, well, that's just ignorant because Pacquiao did knock people out. Again, for those who do not have a clue, do some research. For starters, Pacquiao knocked out Barrera, Morales, Solis, Lucero, Julio, Ledwaba etc. etc.

J.B.
12-25-2009, 09:56 PM
First off Merry Christmas, but wow Rock..."Black Propaganda" :laugh:

You do realize that I could post at least 10 links right now (if not more) to respectable sources that are condemning Manny Paccquiao and his camp for their actions as of late?

It's nice that you found one article that goes on a long tirade about the whole Pacamaniac side of the argument, even though it left out some of the more ridiculous counterpoints that have been given recently. Your story also has blatant lies and misleading facts in it. For the record you also admitted to not even reading all of it.

I already went on a long tirade of my own in this very thread, and I think I have given a pretty fair analysis as to what is going on. I can back up any and all of my claims on this subject, and I have made my specific views pretty clear.

I got nothing but love for ya Rock, and again I wish you a Merry Christmas, but truth be told...Manny is the one messing things up right now...

rockdawg21
12-26-2009, 05:01 AM
JB, in your world, Mayweather can't do anything wrong. Pac has done nothing to warrant the accusations against him and you call it fair that Mayweather is demanding the steroid tests. While I agree some of Pac's conditions are ridiculous, but Mayweather is one of the shadiest fighters in the sport today, it's nothing more than a simple ploy to disrupt Pacquiao's training camp and to **** with his head rather than simply signing on the dotted line and making a fight. The whole thing is absolutely stupid and if I were the foreigner going to another country, I'd be VERY skeptical of what they would be trying as well. If Pac or anybody were making these claims against Mayweather, you'd be singing a whole different tune.

On another note, did you ever take debate class in college or high school? This author makes the most valid point which is one of the very first rules of debate...burden of proof. In debate, burden of proof is only fulfilled by one thing...EVIDENCE. Until Mayweather and his camp can provide evidence, the burden of proof is on them. And don't say Pac's refusal to take multiple blood tests is proof, because Pac is the one being accused without evidence against him, thus, he carries the benefit of assumption, otherwise known as, presumption of innocence. Same with 10 jealous fighters claiming Pac has gained 17 pounds in 2 years, this isn't proof of anything because it's more like 4-5 and he's just cutting less weight. You say Pac needs to understand some of the U.S. culture if he's going to fight here and so forth, well this is part of the U.S. culture and legal system, so maybe Mayweather & company should stop with the BS claims until they can actually provide something worthwhile other than just talking ****.

http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTICLE/2173/2009-12-25.html
The Mayweathers Carry The Burden of Proof

December 25th, 2009

Kenneth Ragpala

The burden of proof.

During my stint as a debating class student, we were told that anyone who has the guts to make serious accusations, claims, and other pieces of information that could prove vital and add more validity to his argument must present evidences to support such claim.

Such is the burden of proof.

In what is now a halted negotiation for the Pacquiao-Mayweather super fight, it is clear where the snag in the agreement process stems from. Right after Pacquiao scored a devastating second round-knockout victory over Ricky Hatton last May, Hatton’s then head trainer Floyd Mayweather Sr., made some serious comments that implied the probability of Pacquiao using illegal substances that could have boosted his performances and helped him campaign successfully through various weight classes.

As time went by, the accusations grew bolder and stronger and have recently hit fever pitch when the Mayweather camp insisted on an Olympic-style series of random drug test to “level the playing field.” For Pacquiao and his people, this demand is outrageously ridiculous and does not warrant any merit at all.

I agree.

See, the burden of proof falls on Mayweather Sr.’s shoulders. After all, it was he who made such accusations in the first place.

But did they show any evidence that Pacquiao is indeed taking performance-enhancing drugs? No. Did they have any charts or papers or test results that reveal any signs of steroids in Pacquiao’s system? No. Was there a point in time that they present a witness that says Pacquiao is indeed taking steroids? No, they did not.

The point being driven here is that the Mayweathers are pressing a claim that is unfounded and lacks substantial evidence. Unless they can present the boxing public with just a proof to support the allegations, then Pacquiao needs not to explain himself why he does not want to undergo any other drug tests other than those required by the Commission.

And if this was a debate, which in some way it is, the Mayweathers have a heavy burden on their shoulders right now.

J.B.
12-26-2009, 12:15 PM
No Rock, I have been completely fair about the whole thing. Of course you are not gonna see it that way because it's your view of the situation that is one sided. You NEVER give Floyd a shred of credit for anything, and for months I have watched you take opinions from articles and spin them around about Mayweather. Now, when Manny comes into question by pretty much every major media outlet, you don't wanna hear about it. Honestly, I am not even sure you actually read everything I say. I think you just have this conception that because I don't hate Floyd like you do that I must just be talking crap about Manny all the time. Honestly, at this point I don't see how anybody can really know what to believe with all the intermediaries involved. This whole thing could be one giant fabrication concocted by both parties to stir up interest, but with the relationship of Top Rank and Mayweather Promotions being what they are, I seriously doubt that.

You say Floyd is one of the "shadiest fighters in the world" because that's how you've always felt. I am not the one who has sat on here for months bashing or hating on any fighter. The only figure in all of this that I have openly bashed repeatedly is Bob Arum, and if you don't think he deserves it, then you haven't been paying attention. Arums IS the shadiest person in Boxing, HANDS DOWN. Now, the very HINT of the fact that Manny could have something to hide makes Pacamaniacs absolutely livid. :ninja:

I have also CLEARLY said multiple times that it was only recently that I actually gave this steroid talk much consideration. Why? Because Manny and his crew have basically been making themselves look guilty in all of this. If you can't accept that, then I am sorry, but don't act like I am saying all this just to make excuses for Floyd Jr or anybody else. If these roles were reversed and Floyd would not take the test I would be saying the EXACT same thing. I know that's hard for you to accept, but it's true.

I have been on this forum dishing out my boxing knowledge and opinions for a long time, and outside of some playful joking around with you I have never really been "against" Manny. I have always liked Manny. I want Manny to be clean because of the huge negative impact it would have on the sport. Just like I hope that ALL the top names are clean. Although, we know that's not always the case.

This is not really about a "burden of proof" issue. This only became that way when Pacquiao decided to make himself look even guiltier by claiming that he is suing everybody. This IS, WAS, and HAS ALWAYS BEEN about negotiating a fight of EPIC proportions. A FIGHT, not a lawsuit, that is expected to generate almost 1/4 of a BILLION dollars. Manny and his crew have made their demands in this too. Demanding a $10 million penalty for even being an ounce over 147? That is also something that has NEVER been done before. As many people have pointed out, Mike Tyson only got fined 3 million when he bit Holyfield's ear. The Pacquiao side has gotten everything it's asked for, but now they are willing to walk away over a random drug test, and maybe, if he is clean, some hurt pride? That is insane. Not to mention, for him to go so far as to file a lawsuit, that just looks bad. The last fighter to sue for defamation over steroid accusations was Shane Mosley, and guess what? He was outed in the BALCO investigation. He claims to this day that he didn't know he was using banned substances, but the owner of BALCO and Mosley's trainer both testified that Mosley DID know what he was using was banned. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

If you think that it's okay for fighters to start canceling fights and suing each other over this kind of thing, then I am truly shocked. Yeah, maybe a part of this was a head game from the Mayweather camp, but clearly it was a smart idea because it really shook Manny to the core. It still don't change the fact that what is being asked for is NOT that big of a deal, and it makes perfect sense. Completely random testing means just that, COMPLETELY RANDOM. Nobody should get to dictate when or how they are tested when we are talking about something like this. It don't matter if Manny or anybody else has passed a million urine tests from the NSAC. We know that their standards are much more relaxed and they hardly ever take blood. Saying we should use the places that are used by the NFL, NBA, and MLB is somewhat of a reasonable suggestion, but Arum made that call totally at the wrong time. Now people think they are trying to wiggle their way out of completely random testing. Arum should have said that way before Shaefer and Ellerbee said they wanted the USADA, but Arum clearly didn't think it would matter when he agreed to it. Now, Manny should just take the test. It would not only prove his innocence, but also be setting a good example for the rest of the sports world and especially for Boxing. Manny should be all about this.

Also, nobody has denied Manny Pacquiao his presumption of innocence. These opinions and questions have some legitimacy. It's about more than just "gaining 17 pounds" as you keep saying. It's a legit comparison to others in many sports who have had a sharp increase in their raw physical power and endurance in the latter part of their careers and turned out to be using banned substances. There is no denying that Manny has defied some odds in what he has done recently. It would only validate his greatness even more if took the test. Manny and his crew have also helped cast this doubt ON THEMSELVES. Seriously, why can't you give me a valid explanation for what Alex Ariza said? Or how about the fact that this took two weeks to become an issue? Or Freddie Roach and Bob Arum's double talk? All of these things add up to enough for anybody of sound logic to question Manny, even just a little bit. He can clear the whole thing up very easily if he just takes the damn test.

This has gotten out of hand, and Pac-Man fans basically try to just ignore it all and spin it back on Mayweather, while taking their cues from Bob Arum and calling Floyd a coward. News flash; Floyd ain't the one saying the fight is "DEAD" or "O-V-E-R", and he certainly is not the one threatening with a lawsuit. He is just standing his ground on this issue, and he should. Pac's camp has done the same, but they are the ones who have reacted very harshly in all of this. Balking at a random steroid test and replacing Mayweather with Malignaggi is ridiculous and the whole world knows it.

Manny, and also his fans, do need to realize that he can't really play stupid forever. The guy is a huge celebrity, and it's not even just about America. He has been in the sport for over 15 years and he is trying to be a politician in his country, but I'm supposed to believe he don't know anything about steroids? Yeah right. He is not as naive as Arum and Roach play him off to be. Also, stop acting like Pacquiao has a reason to be worried about coming to America and getting tested. He has been in this business a long time, and he knows how things work. He's been working with guys like Bob Arum and Gary Shaw and now I'm supposed to think he has something more to worry about by working with Golden Boy? That's silly. Golden Boy may have their own agenda, but it's certainly not to rig a drug test against Manny.

atomdanger
12-26-2009, 05:36 PM
I wouldn't have blood drawn the day of the fight either,
when does Mayweather want this test done?
Sort of ridiculous.

atomdanger
12-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Don't bother arguing with JB about mayweather,
he is madly in love with him, and Mayweather does no wrong in his eyes.

J.B.
12-26-2009, 05:57 PM
Don't bother arguing with JB about mayweather,
he is madly in love with him, and Mayweather does no wrong in his eyes.

You are an idiot who just comes in the thread and don't bother to read anything. Either read whats been written and give a reasonable response or don't bother talking about the subject. You make yourself look stupid by just bashing me without actually responding to any of the facts.

You can't even bother to gather the one major fact from this whole thing that all that is being asked for is a random test, because you can't even bother to actually read the thread. You just see me posting and try to take a shot at me because you don't like Floyd. Total class.

Come back when you actually know something about boxing, or reading comprehension for that matter.

J.B.
12-26-2009, 07:41 PM
Here are some simple facts about what has been going on.


1. Manny has gotten everything he has asked for in these negotiations. This problem with having random drug testing done by the USADA is the only thing keeping Manny from fighting.

2. Pacquaio was asked to agree to a random Olympic style drug testing conducted by the USADA. There is nothing in writing that says he definitely would get blood drawn on the day of the fight or in the days right before the fight, but it's a possibility. The idea behind random testing is quite easy to understand, and most of the experts in the drug testing world, the Boxing world, and in the media all seem to agree that it yields the best results.

3. Pacquiao's team declined to agree to the testing, but not until two weeks after they had originally agreed. When they found out it was random, they gave a grocery list of excuses such as a phobia of needles and superstition, as well as saying that is a ploy to physically drain him. Keep in mind, Mayweather would be submitted to the exact same testing. Pacquiao made a counter offer to use agencies that are used by the NFL, MLB, and NBA instead and offered specific times that he was willing to give blood. Mayweather declined because that is not random.

4. Pacquiao's conditioning trainer Alex Ariza was quoted only a couple weeks ago saying that Pacquiao does not even know what goes in his own body because he gives him everything.

5. Freddie Roach has gone from saying "Manny will pass any test any time", to no taking blood within 30 days of the fight, to maybe we will let you take blood within a few days of the fight.

6. Pacquiao and Arum have now supposedly chosen to pick another lesser fighter and go forward. They are also saying that they are going to sue the Mayweathers and Golden Boy for defamation of character.

7. Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy has been somewhat of a hypocrite in this situation considering he would not agree to make Shane Mosley undergo extra blood testing in 2008 when they were negotiating a fight with Zab Judah. He even went so far as to say "Shane is not a cheater". However, Schaefer is pretty much at the mercy of the Mayweathers in these negotiations considering Golden Boy is only acting as an intermediary between Mayweather Promotions and Top Rank.


There is some blame that can be spread all around in this mess, as that is the usual politics of these type of negotiations. Still, the bad PR that is coming from all this for Manny Pacquaio is not all a result of the Mayweather camp. Ariza has been connected to roids in the past, so has Freddie Roach, and Bob Arum is a known cheater. These 3 men have all helped cast some looming questions over Manny in the last couple weeks and if Manny truly is clean then I feel really sorry for him. However, at this point, he really should just take the test, clear his name, and then go out and win in the ring. Fighting in a courtroom will not fix any of this, and it certainly won't help Manny's legacy.

rockdawg21
12-28-2009, 12:46 AM
LOL, even the WBC President, Jose Sulaiman, says "If Mayweather doesn’t want to fight him [Pac], let him [Mayweather] go to hell."

http://philboxing.com/news/story-31826.html
WBC PRESIDENT ADVISES MANNY IF MAYWEATHER DOESN’T WANT TO FIGHT

By Ronnie Nathanielsz
PhilBoxing.com
Mon, 28 Dec 2009

WBC President Don Jose Sulaiman has advised pound-for-pound king, winner of the coveted “Diamond Belt” and the premier boxing organizations accolade as “Boxer of the Year” Manny Pacquiao to tell Floyd Mayweather Jr that “if he doesn’t want to fight him let him go to hell.”

Sulaiman told www.insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports from his home in Mexico “Manny has had many WBC title fights . He’s always been clean. I know him as a decent, exceptional, clean person and I don’t think it was fair” for such allegations about being on performance-enhancing drugs to be made.

Sulaiman stressed “he shouldn’t worry, he’s clean. If Mayweather doesn’t want to fight him, let him go to hell.”

The WBC president also noted that Golden Boy Promotions and CEO Richard Schaefer don’t like Pacquiao “because they had him before and now he’s not with them and that’s why they attack him this way and it’s not fair.”

Sulaiman said Schaefer “is a very good finance man but he knows very, very little about boxing. He used to be a very nice person but he has changed badly.”

Top Rank promoter Bob Arum who is on holiday in Mexico earlier came out strongly in support of Pacquiao’s decision to sue Schaefer and Floyd Mayweather Sr and his son, undefeated former pound-for-pound No.1 Floyd Mayweather Jr, for libel, slander and defamation.

In an overseas telephone conversation with www.insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports, Arum said “I am so delighted that he (Pacquiao) is standing up outside the ring like a man, just like he does in the ring.”

Pacquiao had earlier indicated to us that he didn’t wish to dignify the statements made by Mayweather Sr and Schaefer and give them the publicity and attention they were looking for but said in a subsequent statement that enough is enough and that his character and person have been questioned, maligned, damaged and tarnished by baseless and false accusations he has instructed Arum and his own lawyers to file a lawsuit against those who have accused him of taking performance-enhancing drugs without a shred of evidence.

Pacquiao’s adviser Michael Koncz told us Sunday afternoon that Pacquiao was spending time with his family while attending to some personal issues in his hometown of General Santos City and that Pacquiao doesn’t wish to say anything more on the topic.

The founding secretary general of the World Boxing Council, eminent lawyer-sportsman Rudy Salud said “I’ve been waiting for them (Pacquiao and Arum) to do that. They have all the right to do that and they will win that case. They cannot deny the statements in which they have accused Pacquiao without any evidence. They are caught. No way for them to get out of that.”

Salud said “now they have to prove their accusations and cannot force him to undergo any test to prove his innocence under any specific system because of the presumption of innocence.” Salud added that in court Pacquiao “can prove that by way of the drug tests conducted by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, which they can present as evidence, that he has been tested so many times and found to be clean of any drugs.”

In a statement issued Christmas morning in the Philippines, Pacquiao was quoted as saying “these people think it’s a joke and a right to accuse someone wrongly of using steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs. I have tried to just brush it off as a mere pre-fight ploy but I think they have gone overboard.”

“I have instructed my promoter, Bob Arum, head of Top Rank Inc., to help me out in the filing of the case as soon as possible because I have had people coming over to me now asking if I really take performance-enhancing drugs and I have cheated my way into becoming the No. 1 boxer in the world.”

There are indications that all options would be studied by the top-notch lawyers likely to be retained by Arum and Pacquiao and that libel, slander and defamation suits are expected to be filed against those who made the statements on TV and in several newspapers and internet sites.

Pacquiao was named “Fighter of the Year” by the prestigious Sports Illustrated, was also chosen “Fighter of the Year” twice before and is a cinch to win the award for 2009 and is way ahead of golfing great Tiger Woods in ESPN’s Goodyear “Champion of Champions” balloting. Pacquiao was the first Filipino boxer to appear on the cover of Time Magazine. He has won every conceivable award in the sport and has been acknowledged as the “Hero of Asia” for his achievements in the ring, his humility, his generous assistance to the poor and his concern for his countrymen as well as his help in promoting the careers of other promising Filipino boxers and the unsubstantiated allegations made against him have incensed millions of his countrymen.

Mayweather and Golden Boy Promotions have maintained that Mayweather won’t fight Pacquiao unless he took an Olympic-style drug-test handled by the US Anti Doping Agency or USADA. Pacquiao and Arum agreed to be tested one day before the kickoff press conference, 30 days before the fight and immediately after the fight in the dressing room stressing that if he was taking drugs it would surely come out. But Mayweathers handlers insisted on having it their way.

Arum, as a way of saving the fight agreed to have Pacquiao tested by the agency that tests professional players in the NBA, NFL and MBL but that too was turned down, prompting Arum, Pacquiao, celebrated trainer Freddie Roach and conditioning expert Alex Ariza to claim that Mayweather was looking for a way out because he was scared of Pacquiao who was ready to give him, as Ariza said, “the beating of his life.”

Pacquiao, in his statement reiterated what he’s said before, “I maintain and assure everyone that I have not used any form or kind of steroids and that my way to the top is a result of hard work, hard work, hard work and a lot of blood spilled from my past battles in the ring, not outside of it.”

Pacquiao, supported by Arum, Roach and Ariza stated “I have no idea what steroids look like and my fear in God has kept me safe and victorious through all these years.”

In a direct challenge to Mayweather Jr Pacquiao said “don’t be a coward and face me in the ring, mano-a-mano and shut your big, pretty mouth, so we can show the world who is the true king of the ring.”

Pacquiao’s adviser Michael Koncz confirmed to us that Pacquiao, has been contemplating on filing a case against Mayweather Sr. even before the start of his Nov. 14 fight with Miguel Angel Cotto. He said then that he “ did not sue because he did not want to get distracted during that time” because as Pacquiao himself said he was preparing for one of the toughest fights of his career.

Koncz told us that Pacquiao is not against any form of drug testing mandated by any state athletic sports commission and in fact supports the effort to keep all athletic disciplines free of drugs because athletes are role models for the youth. It was noted that Nevada State Athletic Commission executive director Keith Kizer has often maintained that Pacquiao has been tested before and after every fight in Las Vegas and had been found free of any performance enhancing drugs or steroids.

rockdawg21
12-28-2009, 12:50 AM
Don't bother arguing with JB about mayweather,
he is madly in love with him, and Mayweather does no wrong in his eyes.
I pretty much agree with this, but I've already spoken my peace about it and the thread is for conversation, both pro and con, and everybodys' viewpoints. I'm still going to post the articles as they are released. It looks as if there may be an agreement reached, but I wouldn't count on it as it appears Mayweather is once again throwing every curve possible to avoid fighting an elite welterweight once again. The accusations are out of fear and jealousy, I didn't think Mayweather was scared to fight Pac, but it's obvious he is with this stupid demand.

J.B.
12-28-2009, 01:22 AM
Nobody really cares what Sulaiman thinks. That dude is a joke and a crook. He wasn't telling Floyd to go to hell when he was making the WBC a ton of money. He should stick to making up fake title belts because we really need more titles. That article could have been summed up in two sentences. All the other info is just re-hashed.

Why is Arum so quick to wanna go fight Malignaggi, and why aren't they threatening to sue Malignaggi for his statements too? Seems a little silly to me. Then of course there is all of that suspicious double talk and strange comments that all the hardcore Manny fans just ignore. Anybody who doesn't find the actions of the Pacquiao side in the last few weeks a little odd is clearly not being rational.

One side needs to just stop the circus for the sake of the fight at this point. If Floyd backs off the extra testing right now he will look like the bigger man, especially if he wins. If Pacquiao just took the test, he would look like the even bigger man. The hangup in this whole thing is that Mayweather's side has the intellectual high ground on the issue of random testing. Manny's side has played the victim card so much in this that they look suspicious. Nobody has been able to give a sound reason why completely random blood and urine testing is a bad idea. It doesn't matter if Manny feels like it's a stab at his integrity, refusal to agree to it and giving such infantile reasons for his objections is not helping him look good. Regardless of which fighter you like or don't like, that is very clear to see.

J.B.
12-28-2009, 01:53 AM
I pretty much agree with this, but I've already spoken my peace about it and the thread is for conversation, both pro and con, and everybodys' viewpoints. I'm still going to post the articles as they are released. It looks as if there may be an agreement reached, but I wouldn't count on it as it appears Mayweather is once again throwing every curve possible to avoid fighting an elite welterweight once again. The accusations are out of fear and jealousy, I didn't think Mayweather was scared to fight Pac, but it's obvious he is with this stupid demand.

Whatever Rock, you are so stuck in Pacland that you won't even address the facts. I've always given a fair analysis on the fighters and the politics of the sport in this topic and others. It's not my fault if you and atom have trouble seeing things from a fair perspective. Sorry if I provide too much of my own thoughts and analysis rather than posting link after link from other websites. I read all the same info you do, I'd rather tell people how I see it.

I've defended Mayweather on a lot of topics, and all for good reasons. I have also been critical of Floyd and the people around him, like his father, on a variety of issues. I have also been critical of Golden Boy not only in all of this, but from day one when I started talking about boxing on this forum in 2006. So I am not the one being biased in all this.

I thought you knew better than that Rock, but you are buying into Bob Arum's bull and not even bothering to address any of the suspicious s**t. You really think Floyd don't want this fight after he has agreed to every demand made by Arum, and has made it clear that he wants to fight Manny? Floyd is not the one saying he is gonna go fight Paul Malignaggi, Manny is. Regardless, anybody who buys into the mindset that either one of these guys are afraid to fight each other is naive. Floyd will fight whoever makes the most sense at the time from a financial and exposure perceptive, and I have always acknowledged that. There have been exceptions to that, but it's not about ducking anybody. It don't change the fact that Floyd does have a few unanswered questions, but the only 3 are really Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley. Two of them, Floyd did try to arrange fights with, Mosley and Cotto, and THEY declined. Floyd did turn down Margarito, but that was to take the much better fight at the time with Zab Judah. Then the critics wanted him fight Baldomir, so he did. Then after that, the De La Hoya and Hatton fights were the most lucrative and best for his career at the time. Margarito got beat by Williams and went on to fight a nobody in Golden Johnson and a guy he had already KO'd 3 years before that in Cintron. Then he cheated against Cotto and lost to Mosley. Fighters go with the matchups that make the best sense for them at the time, and Pacquaio has done exactly the same.

I have also always enjoyed going back and fourth on issues in the sport, but when the other side just simply ignores facts, it's really pointless. We are all pawns in this, and that is because of both camps. However the fact still remains that Pac has looked a little suspicious in this, and there is no way the Floyd haters or Pac-nut huggers can spin that.

StizzoFoShizzo
12-28-2009, 07:02 AM
What is wrong with a blood test after the fight? That's all I want to know. I think both sides are doing their fair share of stonewalling here. I'm not much of a boxing expert but I do still buy pay per views. I'm just a casual fan who is not partial to either fighter, and all I want is to see the best take on the best in any sport I watch.

But what really sticks out to me is....... If pacman is on something then it would surely show up in a post fight blood test! So why does The pre fight test matter so much?

Manny has had his stipulations, but none of them require changing the past practices of the sport or the commision in the state thy will fight in. Glove size, weight, money, venue are all things that are most likely discussed before every big fight. But to ask for a total overhaul of the way the commision tests for performance enhancements seem like money is reaching here.

Now if Pac has nothing to hide, then his trainers need to have a gag order put on them because they are not making things any better for their fighter. It is a good idea for better testing of fighters and what better time to start than with the biggest fight of the century?

I'm not a big boxing fan and I'm torn here, I just want to pay my hard earned money on a quality fight, and have fun watching it. Hopefully this gets worked out.

J.B.
12-28-2009, 07:35 AM
What is wrong with a blood test after the fight? That's all I want to know. I think both sides are doing their fair share of stonewalling here. I'm not much of a boxing expert but I do still buy pay per views. I'm just a casual fan who is not partial to either fighter, and all I want is to see the best take on the best in any sport I watch.

But what really sticks out to me is....... If pacman is on something then it would surely show up in a post fight blood test! So why does The pre fight test matter so much?

Manny has had his stipulations, but none of them require changing the past practices of the sport or the commision in the state thy will fight in. Glove size, weight, money, venue are all things that are most likely discussed before every big fight. But to ask for a total overhaul of the way the commision tests for performance enhancements seem like money is reaching here.

Now if Pac has nothing to hide, then his trainers need to have a gag order put on them because they are not making things any better for their fighter. It is a good idea for better testing of fighters and what better time to start than with the biggest fight of the century?

I'm not a big boxing fan and I'm torn here, I just want to pay my hard earned money on a quality fight, and have fun watching it. Hopefully this gets worked out.

If he is using something in training, he could still find ways to come up clean on the night of the fight. Athletes that use PED's know how to pass tests. Remember Shane Mosley and Fernando Vargas? They passed tests too.

This is not really that unprecedented, as many fights have worked out extra testing in the contract. It actually happens more than you think. The only thing that makes this different is that they are asking it be completely random blood and urine tests. Mayweather's side even backed off of only using the USADA. They said they would agree to use a different facility if Pac didn't like the USADA, but they just want it to be random. Pacquiao's side has said firmly that they don't want to give any blood for 30 days before the fight, and that is suspicious. Also, one of the things I have a hard time accepting is the quote from Alex Ariza that said Manny doesn't know what goes in his body because he gives him everything. Even if that was an innocent comment, it just sounds horribly bad. It sounds like Ariza is laying the seeds to be the fall guy for Manny if something goes wrong.

The argument that some people are making that Floyd is changing the rules of the sport are ridiculous. Manny's stipulations in this fight and his others have been hard-line and out of the ordinary as well. Asking for a 10 million dollar fine for even one ounce over 147 is an insane amount that has never been heard of before. Manny's last 3 fights have almost fell through due to hard line negotiations from Manny's camp. When Cotto wanted 147, Manny wanted 143, and he ended up getting 145, but still got the commission to make it a title fight for the 147 title. That's not something that happens very often, and some might say that is "changing the rules" too. Also, it should be noted that it seems we only hear this kind of loud mouth politician like ranting from Bob Arum when he is trying to work out a fight with fighters outside his promotion. He wants to keep all the money in-house, and he hates Golden Boy, so he has made this like pulling teeth. Mayweather agreed to all the major conditions Manny asked for, and this is the only thing he asked for in return.

The bottom line here is that it don't matter if the method is new or different, and it don't matter that Floyd is the one asking for it. The request is fair and I think anybody who cares about the integrity of the sport should agree with this style of testing 100%. This IS the biggest fight in terms of money that the sport will ever see, and this would be a good time to set a new standard. Just because some people don't like the source of the idea, i.e. Floyd Mayweather, that don't make the idea any less valid. With the amount of people who ARE beating the commissions, this kind of testing is long overdue. Of course the NSAC don't wanna hear that, but remember we are talking about the NSAC. It's not like they are completely free of mistakes and even corruption.

Manny had the opportunity to step up to the plate and do the right thing for the sport and he is balking at the idea. That, in connection with the double talk and strange comments of the people around him is what is casting this cloud of suspicion. I want to believe that Manny is clean, but he really handled this whole situation very poorly.

Chuck
12-28-2009, 01:43 PM
2. Because it's the biggest fight the sport has ever seen.

You really think so?????

That's a pretty HUGE claim to make imo. I doubt most people outside of boxing have no idea who Pac is....

But everybody knew names like Ali, Tyson, Sugar Ray....

Help me out JB.... what are ya saying here brother?

Chuck
12-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Don't bother arguing with JB about mayweather,
he is madly in love with him, and Mayweather does no wrong in his eyes.

:happy0198:

I'm sure you have no idea what that's like right??

Is blind love for one fighter that much different than blind hatred for another?? :huh:

Either way you end up with a completely biased fan unable to be objective thereby rendering most of their opinions worthless.

Mayweather can do no wrong in JB's eyes (according to you) and GSP can do no right in yours...

Pot meet Kettle... :wink:

J.B.
12-28-2009, 02:15 PM
You really think so?????

That's a pretty HUGE claim to make imo. I doubt most people outside of boxing have no idea who Pac is....

But everybody knew names like Ali, Tyson, Sugar Ray....

Help me out JB.... what are ya saying here brother?

I guess I could have clarified that better in that post.

When I say it's the biggest fight the sport has ever seen I mean in terms of exposure and financial gain. This fight is expected to pull in nearly a quarter of a billion dollars. However, only time can dictate how the fight ends up being perceived from a historical standpoint.

You would be surprised how popular Pac is right here in America. Not to mention his legion of loyal fans in the Philippines. Mayweather is the modern day Ali in terms of flash and hype and also in skill. He also is the fighter that many people love to hate simply because of his personality. It's the classic clash of the titans.

Miss Foxy
12-28-2009, 02:16 PM
I guess I could have clarified that better in that post.

When I say it's the biggest fight the sport has ever seen I mean in terms of exposure and financial gain. This fight is expected to pull in nearly a quarter of a billion dollars. However, only time can dictate how the fight ends up being perceived from a historical standpoint.

You would be surprised how popular Pac is right here in America. Not to mention his legion of loyal fans in the Philippines. Mayweather is the modern day Ali in terms of flash and hype and also in skill. He also is the fighter that many people love to hate simply because of his personality. It's the classic clash of the titans.

Never did I imagine I would root for MAYWEATHER, but yes it's true!! It's a love/hate and I love his fighting..:happydancing:

Chuck
12-28-2009, 02:24 PM
I guess I could have clarified that better in that post.

When I say it's the biggest fight the sport has ever seen I mean in terms of exposure and financial gain. This fight is expected to pull in nearly a quarter of a billion dollars. However, only time can dictate how the fight ends up being perceived from a historical standpoint.

You would be surprised how popular Pac is right here in America. Not to mention his legion of loyal fans in the Philippines. Mayweather is the modern day Ali in terms of flash and hype and also in skill. He also is the fighter that many people love to hate simply because of his personality. It's the classic clash of the titans.

I gotcha.... Now I see where you're coming from...

It does make you wonder though....

If adjusted for inflation... imagine some of Ali's fights only being on PPV.... I would imagine he would have put up some pretty amazing numbers...

J.B.
12-28-2009, 02:30 PM
:happy0198:

I'm sure you have no idea what that's like right??

Is blind love for one fighter that much different than blind hatred for another?? :huh:

Either way you end up with a completely biased fan unable to be objective thereby rendering most of their opinions worthless.

Mayweather can do no wrong in JB's eyes (according to you) and GSP can do no right in yours...

Pot meet Kettle... :wink:

It goes both ways, just like you said.

However the problem with that argument is that when it is overused it quickly derails a topic down the path of personal attacks. I try to avoid it, and try to get people to discuss facts surrounding situations, but sometimes it just needs to be said that a person is acting like a nut-hugger or a being a hater.

When somebody just responds with the kind of stuff atom does without addressing the logical and factual information provided, it only makes them look silly.

J.B.
12-28-2009, 02:38 PM
I gotcha.... Now I see where you're coming from...

It does make you wonder though....

If adjusted for inflation... imagine some of Ali's fights only being on PPV.... I would imagine he would have put up some pretty amazing numbers...

Ali is pretty much the GOAT... kinda hard to argue that.

But if he was as racially vocal in today's society as he was back then he would be loathed a lot more. I've always been split on Ali, not really partial one way or the other.

StizzoFoShizzo
12-28-2009, 08:31 PM
I was at a family/freinds Xmas party this afternoon and my dads freind said something that made alot of sense, and I can't believe I never saw this before. What PBF is doing is completely legit. He just wAnts to make sure the playing field is level. They both have to take these tests. According to this mans opinion, random tests before the fight are almost more important than the tests after. If manny were to test positive before the fight, then PBF has the option to either take the fight and demand more money, or he can just say screw you and not do it. But if they are negative the fight goes on as planned. Both fighters take the test. If I was Floyd I wouldn't wanna get into the ring with a guy who could very well be using perfomanxe enhancing drugs and not only risk injury but also my zero in the loss column. I'm not saying pacman is juicing, but after talking to this guy, who's not only the mayor of our city, but also a succesful amatuer boxer and Olympic judge, he managed to sway my opinion.

rockdawg21
12-29-2009, 02:53 AM
One of the unwritten aspects about this is Mayweathers' cleverness at negotiation and head games. He is VERY clever with negotiations.

It is known by many that Pac's last loss occurred in early 2005 to Erik Morales. However, it's known by few that Pac was given a blood test 10 days before the fight (he had to give it to test for HIV and hepatitis in order to get a license to fight in Nevada) and Pac attributes the loss to feeling "weak" from the blood test. It's only a superstition, but it's a superstition nonetheless, and Pac is most definitely not ready to deal with it. (If you've ever met Filipinos, they are very superstitious people) Mayweather is playing it brilliantly to tip the scales in his favor and gain the psychological edge or possibly to avoid Pac altogether knowing Pac wouldn't subject himself to a blood test so close to a fight.

IMO, this has nothing to do with making sure Pac isn't juicing, but to ensure that Pac isn't 100% mentally ready if they fight. Mayweather is a true genius at this stuff and it has REALLY gotten under Pac's skin.

J.B.
12-29-2009, 04:03 AM
Nobody has denied how good Floyd is at playing the mind game...like I said to Chuck earlier, he is the modern day Ali in that respect. Manny is good at those games too.

Still, none of that is really relevant when you look at the bigger picture. As they say, sometimes the ends, justify the means. Manny made a poor decision in the way he has handled this.

I still have yet to see one response from Rock about any of what Alex Ariza said. Or the double talk from Roach. It's better to just ignore facts sometimes I guess. :laugh:

Oh yeah, here's another hole in the boat...
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4777048

"When HBO televised "Pacquiao/Hatton 24/7", it aired footage of Pacquiao taking a routine blood test as part of his pre-fight medical exam. The blood test was conducted approximately 14 days before the fight; it punches holes in Pacquiao's argument that giving blood inside 30 days of a fight negatively impacts his performance."

matthughesfan21
12-29-2009, 04:13 AM
"When HBO televised "Pacquiao/Hatton 24/7", it aired footage of Pacquiao taking a routine blood test as part of his pre-fight medical exam. The blood test was conducted approximately 14 days before the fight; it punches holes in Pacquiao's argument that giving blood inside 30 days of a fight negatively impacts his performance."[/B]http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/laprincesse83301/oh_snap.jpg

J.B.
12-29-2009, 04:33 AM
Mayweather is playing it brilliantly to tip the scales in his favor and gain the psychological edge or possibly to avoid Pac altogether knowing Pac wouldn't subject himself to a blood test so close to a fight.

There is no sound logic behind any of that. They both want THIS fight, and not other fights. Fighters at their levels are looking for the best deal, and they both know that passing on this would be a mistake. This crap about this guy ducking that guy is tired and weak. FACT, everybody can be accused of ducking if you buy into a simple mentality.

A part of this is a battle of ego's and bit of posturing in the press to build hype. However, there is a third element to this now, and it's the cloud of suspicion over Manny. You can call it a ploy or anything you want, but the bottom line is that Manny and his camp are responsible for the bad PR they have gotten out of all of this simply because of their actions.

This is a sensitive issue here, and he should respect his American fans as well and just take the test. It would be easy for him to clean this up, just do some damage control on the double talk by explaining it away and claim that he realizes that the situation looks suspicious, but assure us all that it was an innocent misunderstanding and he is going to fully comply with the testing. Then he can test clean and everything will be fine again.

rockdawg21
12-29-2009, 11:19 AM
Nobody has denied how good Floyd is at playing the mind game...like I said to Chuck earlier, he is the modern day Ali in that respect. Manny is good at those games too.

Still, none of that is really relevant when you look at the bigger picture. As they say, sometimes the ends, justify the means. Manny made a poor decision in the way he has handled this.

I still have yet to see one response from Rock about any of what Alex Ariza said. Or the double talk from Roach. It's better to just ignore facts sometimes I guess. :laugh:

Oh yeah, here's another hole in the boat...
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4777048

"When HBO televised "Pacquiao/Hatton 24/7", it aired footage of Pacquiao taking a routine blood test as part of his pre-fight medical exam. The blood test was conducted approximately 14 days before the fight; it punches holes in Pacquiao's argument that giving blood inside 30 days of a fight negatively impacts his performance."
I wasn't on much during the Xmas break so I overlooked some things and didn't read all the posts because a lot of it looked like arguing again. I haven't read the Alex Ariza quote, only what you said about it, and I'm reading a LOT on the subject. Got a link?

Interesting about the 24/7 footage, I don't remember that part, but there's a lot that goes into those episodes. Hopefully, Arum will be able to take that to Pac and help Pac recall that to put an end to all the superstition and get the ball rollin' on the fight again.

EDIT: Just read an article regarding this, and the test was actually conducted 7 days before the fight (not posting the whole article, but the part saying 7 days away):
http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/12/29/does-hbos-24-7-series-foil-pacquiaos-blood-testing-assertion/
A closeup is shown of Pacquiao's left arm, into which a needle is deeply driven as the narrator tells viewers, "Blood is drawn, questions are asked." Later, the small glass cylinder containing Pacquiao's blood is in full view, held by the doctor as he scribbles notes onto a document.

Pacquaio is given "a clean bill of health across the board," as he leaves the office, a small cotton ball bandaged over the crook in his left arm being the only evidence of his visit.

The next day, in the 119-degree heat of the Wild Card Gym in Hollywood, Pacquiao is a blur of athleticism, firing blistering combinations at an imaginary opponent, the speed bag, the double-end bag, and the practice mitts of trainer Freddie Roach.

"The fight," says the narrator, "is seven days away."
IMO, this is proof that the additional testing is stupid because if Pac were taking roids before the Hatton fight, it would have shown on this test as well. On the flipside, it also disproves that Pac has a superstition for having blood drawn close to a fight. I still think the extra random testing proposed by Mayweather is stupid and that Pac isn't cheating (just more head games by Mayweather), but hopefully Pac will take the stupid test so everybody will STFU and quit being jealous of his success. Oh, then kick Mayweather's ass.

rockdawg21
12-29-2009, 11:42 AM
BTW, your other hero stands up for Pacquiao too:

http://boxingtalk.com/pag/article.php?aid=18989

ROY JONES JR SIDES WITH PACQUIAO: "I WOULDN'T TAKE ANY EXTRA TESTS!"

By G. Leon

GL: Are you aware of the ongoing crisis surrounding the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight? "Most definitely."

GL: Do you have an opinion on it? "You could see Pacquiao's side, why should he change for Floyd? A fight don't start in the ring, it starts when the negotiation starts. If these are the rules, we're going to stick by the standard rules. On the other hand, I understand he's saying something been going on, but the problem with that is, if you're going to check him why didn't you check Marquez? Why didn't you make anybody else do it? It's kind of strange to call him out on this and nobody else."

GL: Do you see anything in Pacquiao that would lead you to feel suspicious?

RJ: "No. The kid is strong, he came up in weight and brought his stregth. Nowadays the testing is good enough, they got it to where you can't even take over the counter products. I can testify to that. The testing is very good right now and there's nothing he could really do that they can't find. Why make Pacquiao take the test and not anybody else?"

GL: Would you have made such a concession for John Ruiz or any of your other big fights?

RJ: "Hell naw. Why change the rules on me? Because I'm coming up in weight means I'm doing steroids? They're giving you a test for that anyway. It would be something that would aggravate me because then after I beat you, I was on something, don't play with me. Either you want to fight or you don't want to fight.:laugh:

J.B.
12-29-2009, 01:20 PM
BTW, your other hero stands up for Pacquiao too:

http://boxingtalk.com/pag/article.php?aid=18989

:laugh:

Yeah, I have referred to Jones as one of my heroes in the sport, but I never said that about Floyd. I am a Mayweather fan, no doubt, but I am also a fan of Manny and I have made that clear time and time again. We can go back and forth calling each other nut-huggers all day long, but it don't change what the facts are.

I will be fair about this just like any other situation, even though I gotta blast RJJ on this one.

Roy Jones is not going to come out and agree with anything that is put fourth by Golden Boy. There is a bunch of bad blood there, it's not really a big secret. Also, even though Roy is technically still fighting, he comes from a different time in Boxing, and in sports. He talks about being able to testify that you can't even use over the counter products, but that was 10 years ago. There are new drugs on the market all the time and it is known fact that urine testing cannot catch everything.

Maybe you didn't know this, but Jones tested positive for steroids in 2000. Now, what is funny about the situation is that Roy's opponent also tested positive for the same exact steroid. Neither Jones, nor his opponent, were reprimanded by the commission because the drug was being sold over the counter at GNC and neither of the fighters had any idea that what they were using contained banned substances, or so they say. Even though Jones has never failed any other test besides that, and nobody has had any reason to suspect him, people still call him a steroid cheat to this very day. Roy also doesn't address the suspicious actions by the Pacquiao camp. Maybe he was not aware, or maybe he didn't care. I don't know.

I think the whole topic is something that Jones takes very personally, and that along with his views of GBP makes it pretty easy to see why he takes the stance he does. I agree with Roy's view that it would be aggravating, but the truth is that he is wrong when he says that the testing is adequate. Regardless if this is something new, and regardless if it is Floyd asking for it, it makes sense and better testing is long overdue.

J.B.
12-29-2009, 01:49 PM
I wasn't on much during the Xmas break so I overlooked some things and didn't read all the posts because a lot of it looked like arguing again. I haven't read the Alex Ariza quote, only what you said about it, and I'm reading a LOT on the subject. Got a link?

Interesting about the 24/7 footage, I don't remember that part, but there's a lot that goes into those episodes. Hopefully, Arum will be able to take that to Pac and help Pac recall that to put an end to all the superstition and get the ball rollin' on the fight again.

EDIT: Just read an article regarding this, and the test was actually conducted 7 days before the fight (not posting the whole article, but the part saying 7 days away):
http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/12/29/does-hbos-24-7-series-foil-pacquiaos-blood-testing-assertion/

IMO, this is proof that the additional testing is stupid because if Pac were taking roids before the Hatton fight, it would have shown on this test as well. On the flipside, it also disproves that Pac has a superstition for having blood drawn close to a fight. I still think the extra random testing proposed by Mayweather is stupid and that Pac isn't cheating (just more head games by Mayweather), but hopefully Pac will take the stupid test so everybody will STFU and quit being jealous of his success. Oh, then kick Mayweather's ass.

How is that proof that additional testing is "stupid"? Also, how does it prove Pac is clean?

How can anybody who is a fan of the sport think that additional testing is stupid? I could care less about what Boxers you like or don't like, anybody who cares about the integrity of the sport should be all about this. Every time a Manny fan calls the testing "stupid", I literally have to laugh out loud.The point of all of this is RANDOM TESTING. Blood and urine, no questions asked. That's how it should be for all fighters in my opinion.

I realize that as a Manny fan it's easy to get mad and get defensive, but it don't help anything. It certainly don't help that Manny is doing it either. Yeah, people will STFU if he takes the test, but he is just pouring dirt on his own head by declining the test and threatening with lawsuits. Make no mistake about it, even though your not gonna like when I say this...

Floyd may have started this whole situation by asking for the stricter testing, but Manny's and his camps response to all of it has been WAY worse in the eyes of the public. If Manny is clean, he should have no issue with taking any test to prove that. Personally, if I were Manny and I was clean, I would be laughing about all of this, not threatening to sue. If he takes the test and wins the fight, anybody who would doubt him at that point would really look dumb.


Lastly, the Alex Ariza comment. I don't have the original link, it was a few weeks ago. It could be that Ariza's comment was innocent, but it still looks bad, plain and simple. However, here is a video of Vivek Wallace talking about the whole situation and he references the Ariza comment so you don't think I am making it up, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs2LzFNdAn0

Bottom line, nobody can come up with a good reason why random blood and urine testing is a bad idea.

J.B.
12-29-2009, 03:01 PM
Well, here is a new report about Floyd possibly fighting Matthew Hatton as a replacement.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24389

Now, I am going to rip into Floyd on this one. Fighting Matthew Hatton is silly. It's low risk and low reward. However, just like with Manny talking about fighting Malignaggi, I can understand why both Manny and Floyd would still want to fight in March at this point, even if it's not going to be against each other.

I realize that both men want to stay fresh but I don't think Floyd needs another tune-up fight, and I certainly don't think he should be interested in Matthew Hatton. Yeah, Floyd has been interested in fighting in England, and Hatton fans are legion over there, so it would have that part of it, but that's about it. I think that if Mosley wasn't fighting at the end of January, he would have been the choice, but the timing of all of this is pretty crappy. Still, Matt Hatton is not a good choice, and the critics are going to rip that apart. I do believe that they are serious about this, but I hope the talk of these fights are just a ploy from both camps to set up a tune up fight for both guys and then have Floyd and Manny fight in September. Even though I don't think it is necessary, and I, like everybody else, wanna see Manny and Floyd fight now.

Floyd will go down in history as a hall of famer regardless of who he fights anymore, and so will Manny. However, they both really need to secure this fight to help secure their own legacies, win or lose, they both need to fight each other. Floyd will always have people that question his choices in the second half of his career, but he still has time to make a few more big fights to balance that out. A lot of people will always say there was somebody that he didn't fight, and the historians will always go back and point to the all time greats from the past and try to make comparisons, but the fact is that the sport is much different today.

J.B.
12-29-2009, 11:40 PM
Actually, now there is a doctor who is saying the blood test Manny took before the Hatton fight was actually 24 days before the fight...so, it's not 14 days anymore like ESPN reported, and it's not 7 days like the article Rock posted, but it's still not 30 days...:blink:

You'd think Arum would have double checked that before opening his mouth to the media about it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24398

Miss Foxy
12-30-2009, 03:14 PM
Actually, now there is a doctor who is saying the blood test Manny took before the Hatton fight was actually 24 days before the fight...so, it's not 14 days anymore like ESPN reported, and it's not 7 days like the article Rock posted, but it's still not 30 days...:blink:

You'd think Arum would have double checked that before opening his mouth to the media about it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24398:duh:

logrus
12-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Actually, now there is a doctor who is saying the blood test Manny took before the Hatton fight was actually 24 days before the fight...so, it's not 14 days anymore like ESPN reported, and it's not 7 days like the article Rock posted, but it's still not 30 days...:blink:

You'd think Arum would have double checked that before opening his mouth to the media about it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24398

If your cycling for an exact cut off date an earlier test would have more of a chance of detecting anything. If he knew that test was coming and cut it off before them, then the benefits from steroids is not present in the system come fight time due to those tests.

Olympic style testing could still be beat. I mean Marien Jones is an example of a Olympic medalist stripped of medals. So its not unlikely that the new designer drugs are able to be caught during testing.

What concrete proof is there that Pac is a roider anyways.

J.B.
12-30-2009, 08:34 PM
If your cycling for an exact cut off date an earlier test would have more of a chance of detecting anything. If he knew that test was coming and cut it off before them, then the benefits from steroids is not present in the system come fight time due to those tests.

Olympic style testing could still be beat. I mean Marien Jones is an example of a Olympic medalist stripped of medals. So its not unlikely that the new designer drugs are able to be caught during testing.

What concrete proof is there that Pac is a roider anyways.

There are experts like Victor Conte who claim that there are drugs that need to be fully cycled out of the body to gain their full effects, and that there are drugs that can be cycled out in a matter of hours. I'm not an expert on steroids, I never claimed to be, and it's nothing personal against you or anybody else, but I am going to tend to believe the guy who founded and ran BALCO on the topic of PED's over message board posts from random fans on the web. Conte has no steak in any of this also, so it's not like he is taking sides.

Of course the tests can still be beaten, but that doesn't mean that it's still not a better method then the one currently in place. I mean, seriously, can you give me any good reason why completely random blood and urine testing is NOT a good idea for the sport?

Your last question is the one that matters least in all of this. This is not the American legal system we are talking about. This is the "court of public opinion". Constantly saying things like; "what proof is there?" and "this is an outrage", are not the right way to handle the situation. That's like if a person is a "possible" suspect in murder, and when the police ask them to take a polygraph they decline and get defensive. No, the polygraph is not something that is "required", just like these drug tests, but you look damn suspicious if you turn it down for no good reason, or any reason for that matter.

I read an interesting article that compared steroids in modern day professional sports to the witch-hunts in the 16th and 17th centuries. If they thought you were a witch, they would put you through a test, usually something like holding you underwater until you drowned. If you survived, lol, they would say you are a witch and burn you, and if you died, then oh well. There are some similarities here. The biggest one is that this will never fully go away for Manny. Some people will keep after him, keep pointing fingers and keep being suspicious, even if he took the tests and passed. However, there are some MAJOR differences here as well. Like, for starters, witches are not real, but PED's are. Drowning a person as a form of a test to see if they are a "witch" is completely ridiculous, but taking some random blood and urine samples is not a big deal at all.

So, I say again, rather than worrying about discrediting the other side, in this case the Mayweather camp, with anger and ridiculous lawsuits, why not step up to the plate and take the tests? If he passes the tests and were to go on to win, there would be no doubt amongst the masses. Sure, there would still be idiots and haters that try to trash him no matter what, but everybody has to deal with that, especially Floyd Mayweather Jr.

J.B.
12-30-2009, 08:56 PM
WOW....this really does just keep getting worse. Regardless if this is true or not, this is what happens once the witch hunt has begun...

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24414

Manny, if you happen to be checking out the Matt Hughes Forum today and you are reading this... please just take the tests, and fight the fight. This is not going to stop at this point.

Crisco
12-30-2009, 09:31 PM
their all ****ing babies.

Said it before and I'll say it again...

Just scrap.

J.B.
12-30-2009, 09:55 PM
their all ****ing babies.

Said it before and I'll say it again...

Just scrap.

Yeah, but when you are talking about a potential 1/4 of a billion dollars, this is what happens. There are stiff negotiations involved on all sorts of things. "Just scrap", is something two high school kids do in the parking lot after school when they have been talking trash during passing periods all day long. This is much bigger than that.

Plus, people do forget that this is Boxing and people can get killed or seriously injured for the rest of their life. It's easy to sit back and say they are babies, but the truth is they earned the right to stand their ground in negotiations by achieving what they have in the sport. They are the best at what they do, and they deserve the right to negotiate themselves the best possible deal. We should try to understand that they have a their lively-hoods to look out for just like anybody else.

J.B.
12-30-2009, 10:53 PM
Alex Ariza has finally come out and addressed the situation in detail, acknowledging that he helped get Manny into this mess. He says he is willing to take a lie detector test and that he will do anything to any extent to clear Manny's name (we all just hope that doesn't mean becoming the "fall guy").

http://www.boxinginsider.com/headlines/exclusive-interview-with-manny-pacquiao-conditioning-coach-alex-ariza/

I think it is good that he finally did this, but he did wait a little too long. Also, it doesn't help the integrity of the article to have this kind of language in it...

Read and decide for yourself if Alex Ariza is a truthful, honest, concerned, and credible person. And conclude for yourself if you think Richard Schaefer is a low life hypocrite scumbag who might resort to trying anything, legal or illegal, to keep the company assets profitable, such as try to assassinate the honor, integrity and reputation of Manny Pacquiao with slander, libel and defamation…

Okay...not that it changes anything Ariza is actually quoted saying, but what type of journalist would do that? It just makes you look biased from the very beginning of the article and before the actual interview even begins. Then again Scoop Malinowski is very biased towards Manny, and it's no secret.

Ariza does seem believable enough in the interview, at least when he says that he has never given Manny any PEDs and that he would take a lie detector test. That was a good move. However, he shouldn't have said that Freddie Roach has never been connected to steroid use, because then people will bring up James Toney.

I still think this fight is going to happen, and a lot of this is hype, but the one thing that concerns me is Pacquiao's threats to sue GBP and the Mayweathers. If that happens, it is going to get really ugly. People might even look at it as Pacquiao taking advantage of the situation to try and get the small financial stake that Golden Boy has in his fights revoked by the courts. It will also put an even bigger strain on the relationship of Top Rank and GBP, which will only hurt the sport.

EDIT : This just in, Manny did file the lawsuit today...for $75,000, LOL....WTF? Is this a joke? http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-12-30-1936657975_x.htm

Miss Foxy
12-30-2009, 11:30 PM
Yeah, but when you are talking about a potential 1/4 of a billion dollars, this is what happens. There are stiff negotiations involved on all sorts of things. "Just scrap", is something two high school kids do in the parking lot after school when they have been talking trash during passing periods all day long. This is much bigger than that.

Plus, people do forget that this is Boxing and people can get killed or seriously injured for the rest of their life. It's easy to sit back and say they are babies, but the truth is they earned the right to stand their ground in negotiations by achieving what they have in the sport. They are the best at what they do, and they deserve the right to negotiate themselves the best possible deal. We should try to understand that they have a their lively-hoods to look out for just like anybody else.

Exactly!! I know there is something fishy with Pacman and everyone likes that jerk!! I can smell a big I told ya so coming on to all his fans!!!:scared0011:

logrus
12-31-2009, 05:00 AM
There are experts like Victor Conte who claim that there are drugs that need to be fully cycled out of the body to gain their full effects, and that there are drugs that can be cycled out in a matter of hours. I'm not an expert on steroids, I never claimed to be, and it's nothing personal against you or anybody else, but I am going to tend to believe the guy who founded and ran BALCO on the topic of PED's over message board posts from random fans on the web. Conte has no steak in any of this also, so it's not like he is taking sides.

Of course the tests can still be beaten, but that doesn't mean that it's still not a better method then the one currently in place. I mean, seriously, can you give me any good reason why completely random blood and urine testing is NOT a good idea for the sport?

Your last question is the one that matters least in all of this. This is not the American legal system we are talking about. This is the "court of public opinion". Constantly saying things like; "what proof is there?" and "this is an outrage", are not the right way to handle the situation. That's like if a person is a "possible" suspect in murder, and when the police ask them to take a polygraph they decline and get defensive. No, the polygraph is not something that is "required", just like these drug tests, but you look damn suspicious if you turn it down for no good reason, or any reason for that matter.

I read an interesting article that compared steroids in modern day professional sports to the witch-hunts in the 16th and 17th centuries. If they thought you were a witch, they would put you through a test, usually something like holding you underwater until you drowned. If you survived, lol, they would say you are a witch and burn you, and if you died, then oh well. There are some similarities here. The biggest one is that this will never fully go away for Manny. Some people will keep after him, keep pointing fingers and keep being suspicious, even if he took the tests and passed. However, there are some MAJOR differences here as well. Like, for starters, witches are not real, but PED's are. Drowning a person as a form of a test to see if they are a "witch" is completely ridiculous, but taking some random blood and urine samples is not a big deal at all.

So, I say again, rather than worrying about discrediting the other side, in this case the Mayweather camp, with anger and ridiculous lawsuits, why not step up to the plate and take the tests? If he passes the tests and were to go on to win, there would be no doubt amongst the masses. Sure, there would still be idiots and haters that try to trash him no matter what, but everybody has to deal with that, especially Floyd Mayweather Jr.

If it was that easy to cycle out of your system then I doubt many people would have been busted even with random testing. But my point with the drug testing is that there could already be stuff out there like the "clear" that is virtuously untraceable with today's methods. Just look at the list of Balco chumps who was busted years after the fact.

Strict testing is not going to be the savior as Balco already proved in its 15+ years of supplying the "juice" that its easier to produce a chemical to beat all tests then it is to build a test to beat all drugs.

My problem is the Floyd is attacking Manny with no proof. If this was about the tests then Floyd would be asking for strict tests for all of boxing from the day of his return, but hes not, hes attacking only 1 man based on the assumption his crack daddy whispered in his ear. Manny could in fact take these tests and pass and possibly in 5 years could fail with the new form of testing and what would all this bullcrap get us.

logrus
12-31-2009, 05:05 AM
Yeah, but when you are talking about a potential 1/4 of a billion dollars, this is what happens. There are stiff negotiations involved on all sorts of things. t.

An what happens if this thing breaks down, it would be because of Floyds constant harassment. Not only that but what if Pac did test positive. Talk about shooting your own foot so to speak.

logrus
12-31-2009, 05:07 AM
Exactly!! I know there is something fishy with Pacman and everyone likes that jerk!! I can smell a big I told ya so coming on to all his fans!!!:scared0011:

That's
Really
Odd
Little
Lady....

:Whistle:

J.B.
12-31-2009, 06:26 AM
If it was that easy to cycle out of your system then I doubt many people would have been busted even with random testing. But my point with the drug testing is that there could already be stuff out there like the "clear" that is virtuously untraceable with today's methods. Just look at the list of Balco chumps who was busted years after the fact.

Strict testing is not going to be the savior as Balco already proved in its 15+ years of supplying the "juice" that its easier to produce a chemical to beat all tests then it is to build a test to beat all drugs.

My problem is the Floyd is attacking Manny with no proof. If this was about the tests then Floyd would be asking for strict tests for all of boxing from the day of his return, but hes not, hes attacking only 1 man based on the assumption his crack daddy whispered in his ear. Manny could in fact take these tests and pass and possibly in 5 years could fail with the new form of testing and what would all this bullcrap get us.


I'm not saying that it's going to be a "savior" or catch every user, but it's quite obvious that testing should be completely random and it should include blood. Lots of experts have come out and agreed with that, as cited in various articles since this all got started. Just saying that strict testing won't catch everybody doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.

Let's be honest here, Floyd Sr was the first one to come out publicly in the boxing world and actually say it, but the talk was there, even if it was only in tiny circles of the web. Who knows, Floyd Jr could have been the one who put the idea in the head of Sr for all we know. Just because Floyd Sr was the first one to say it publicly don't mean he gave birth to the idea.

Floyd Sr makes it really easy to take shots at him, so calling him a crack head proves nothing. Even a blind squirrel can get a nut from time to time, and weather anybody likes him or not, the truth is that Floyd Sr is an expert on the sport of boxing. Also, besides just the crack head saying it's suspicious, you also have Oscar de la Hoya, Paulie Malignaggi, Kermit Cintron, and even Miguel Cotto, plus other various analysts and historians.

I don't think Floyd Jr, Leonard Ellerbee, or Al Haymond ever intended for this to become such a big issue, but I think a part of the request was gamesmanship. To their knowledge, this was a done deal for 2 weeks. It's not like Mayweather came out to the press and just announced right off the bat that if Manny didn't do this testing he would not fight. It wasn't until after Manny found out what the tests included and he refused to agree that this became a blown up issue.

Think about it, if you are the Mayweather side at that point, and you asked for extra testing and were told they had agreed, then 2 weeks later Manny says no way, what would you do? Wouldn't you wonder why, and wouldn't you capitalize on that? Not to mention, what if that report I posted earlier turns out to be true? If you missed it, it said that an inside source close to the negotiations told the NY Daily News that Pacquiao's side was asking what penalties he would face if he tested positive and they also wanted to have an agreement that any negative test results be kept secret.

For real, it's easy for us to sit here and opine on the whole thing, or tell them to "just scrap" as Crisco would say, but we ain't the ones who gotta go out there and get punched in the face by Manny Pacquiao. Floyd has a very valid reason for wanting to be sure, and now because of Manny's own actions, so does the rest of the world.

J.B.
12-31-2009, 06:57 AM
An what happens if this thing breaks down, it would be because of Floyds constant harassment. Not only that but what if Pac did test positive. Talk about shooting your own foot so to speak.

"constant harassment"... :rolleyes:

This ties right back to the same argument about why Manny looks like a bit of a punk in all of this. Mayweather has been taking excessive criticism from the boxing world for at least 7 years and he is not out there threatening to sue other fighters or camps over their opinions. Lots of people have told straight up lies about Floyd Mayweather inside and outside the boxing world, and yet he is not taking it to that level.

Make no mistake about it, if this thing breaks down there will be blame to go around to everybody, but definitely more of the blame would lie at the feet of Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao. They are the ones playing hardball on an issue that should be no problem to comply with, and that is how history will remember it.

If Manny tested positive, it would not really hurt Mayweather much. Yeah, he wouldn't get the superfight right now, but he would be automatically gain even more popularity and there would be no fighters left in the world who have any bargaining leverage over him. That's actually a huge victory for Floyd.

This lawsuit garbage makes me think the fight either really IS dead, or that this is the best hype since the days of Ali and Frazier. Still, in my heart, I believe this fight will happen.

logrus
12-31-2009, 11:41 PM
I do think there should be a stricter guideline for fighters to follow in terms of testing and when they should be tested knowingly and not knowingly. Like I said before this isn't a fighter trying to change the system but a fighter targeting another fighter based on what you call "message board warriors".

J.B.
01-01-2010, 04:29 AM
I do think there should be a stricter guideline for fighters to follow in terms of testing and when they should be tested knowingly and not knowingly. Like I said before this isn't a fighter trying to change the system but a fighter targeting another fighter based on what you call "message board warriors".

Sure, you can question Floyd's motives all day long, but it don't change Pac's actions... :wink:

logrus
01-01-2010, 07:52 AM
Sure, you can question Floyd's motives all day long, but it don't change Pac's actions... :wink:

2 wrongs don't make a right. :tongue0011:

J.B.
01-01-2010, 08:52 AM
2 wrongs don't make a right. :tongue0011:

oh please...:rolleyes:

J.B.
01-06-2010, 12:32 AM
So.....

There was supposed to a be a mediation between the sides today by a judge...

still no word on what happened, which leads me to believe that it was Judge Judy who oversaw the case. Personally, I would have used Judge Mathis. My guess is that he knows more about Boxing. :rolleyes:

Really, this is a joke. I think the fight is on and this whole thing has been hype, but I guess we'll see.

J.B.
01-07-2010, 03:24 AM
and today's rumor is....the fight is OFF :rolleyes:

Supposedly, they were unable to reach an agreement and the mediation was a failure. Reports are that Manny offered a 24 day window for blood testing and the Mayweather camp stood it's ground in requests for a completely random blood testing schedule.

Still no official announcements, but it looks like it's off, at least for March 13th. I'm still not convinced that the fight totally dead by any means, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. At this point there is not much more to comment on, and neither of the prospective fights for Manny or Floyd are very interesting.

Buc Nasty
01-07-2010, 02:56 PM
I've lost all respect for both guys so I no longer have any interest in this fight, F the both of them.

Pussies.

logrus
01-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Mayweather don't want this fight.

hughesfan4life
01-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Mayweather don't want this fight.i'd have to agree with you mate!,manny would crush him me thinks..:punch:

J.B.
01-08-2010, 12:59 AM
LOL... this is not a scenario where either guy is "scared" of the other guy.

I can understand the Buc Nasty POV by saying "f**k both of them", but the truth is that this is kinda how things go. A part of me thinks that this is still just hype, and MAYBE they are both looking at "tune-up" fights just to stay fresh and still plan this fight later in the year, like September. I was surprised when reports were out so soon after the Pac/Cotto fight saying that this fight was pretty much a done deal. It hardly ever works like that in these type of fights.

Anyway...haters can think whatever they want, but statements like this only prove that Mayweather is not afraid of this fight.

"not only do I want to fight Manny Pacquiao, I want to whip his punk ass"
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24553

Oh, that statement was made TODAY, and if you read the article in the link, you'll see that Mayweather also says he offered a 14 day cut off window and Manny is still declining.

Haters, please explain.

logrus
01-08-2010, 02:02 AM
LOL... this is not a scenario where either guy is "scared" of the other guy.

I can understand the Buc Nasty POV by saying "f**k both of them", but the truth is that this is kinda how things go. A part of me thinks that this is still just hype, and MAYBE they are both looking at "tune-up" fights just to stay fresh and still plan this fight later in the year, like September. I was surprised when reports were out so soon after the Pac/Cotto fight saying that this fight was pretty much a done deal. It hardly ever works like that in these type of fights.

Anyway...haters can think whatever they want, but statements like this only prove that Mayweather is not afraid of this fight.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24553

Oh, that statement was made TODAY, and if you read the article in the link, you'll see that Mayweather also says he offered a 14 day cut off window and Manny is still declining.

Haters, please explain.

Well the Pacman fans are calling May a pansy, and the May fans are calling us Pactard fans. All in all this has been the most fun I had for boxing in a long while.

My point is if May wanted this fight he would just take it and be happy with NSAC random testing. He can cry bout the Olympic style testing, but its been beaten like NSAC so nothing more then luck to catch Manny if he is juicing.

If MAy for his next fight demands blood testing, and pushes for it to become the norm. Then I will change my view, but for now I think this is just an excuse.

An I don't believe anything that comes out of Mays mouth JB you know that lol

J.B.
01-08-2010, 02:32 AM
Well the Pacman fans are calling May a pansy, and the May fans are calling us Pactard fans. All in all this has been the most fun I had for boxing in a long while.

My point is if May wanted this fight he would just take it and be happy with NSAC random testing. He can cry bout the Olympic style testing, but its been beaten like NSAC so nothing more then luck to catch Manny if he is juicing.

If MAy for his next fight demands blood testing, and pushes for it to become the norm. Then I will change my view, but for now I think this is just an excuse.

An I don't believe anything that comes out of Mays mouth JB you know that lol

Fair enough, as I also don't believe 90% of what comes out of Bob Arum's mouth.

My larger point is that I don't really think anybody is afraid of anybody. This is mostly just posturing. The testing was something that was agreed on at first, then things changed when Manny's side refused. If you are the Mayweather camp at that point, you have to take advantage. Manny's camp did make some mistakes from a PR standpoint, and that cannot be denied.

I think they both want the fight and this is just hype, but I guess we will see. :ninja:

rockdawg21
01-08-2010, 04:31 AM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s78/rockdawg21/ChickenMayweather.jpg

J.B.
01-08-2010, 05:09 AM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s78/rockdawg21/ChickenMayweather.jpg

Awesome, considering you have nothing Rock...


I guess the last way you could find to attack Floyd was the racist way....lol

rockdawg21
01-08-2010, 12:03 PM
LOL, that doesn't have anything to do with racism; it's a metaphor which describes Mayweather's career in the past 5 years. It should be KFD (Kentucky Fried Duck), but, he's also afraid to fight top welterweights or anybody who can wipe that zero from his record, so a chicken will work fine. A few more:

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs240.snc3/22772_273773304991_721664991_4649775_7378172_n.jpg http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs095.snc3/16243_1144693703109_1400516580_30355209_6127318_n. jpg

logrus
01-08-2010, 04:56 PM
Fair enough, as I also don't believe 90% of what comes out of Bob Arum's mouth.

My larger point is that I don't really think anybody is afraid of anybody. This is mostly just posturing. The testing was something that was agreed on at first, then things changed when Manny's side refused. If you are the Mayweather camp at that point, you have to take advantage. Manny's camp did make some mistakes from a PR standpoint, and that cannot be denied.

I think they both want the fight and this is just hype, but I guess we will see. :ninja:

Thats odd cause I think Arum is clueless 99% of the time on things in relation to Manny. MAnny agreed to testing up until 24 days before the fight and directly after the fight. and had agreed to the random NSAC tests. So I don't see why the May camp was still with issues.

I was right when I said this fight wouildn't happen, and I will be right again come this weekend JM :tongue0011:

Max
01-08-2010, 05:17 PM
MAnny agreed to testing up until 24 days before the fight and directly after the fight.
:

and Mayweather said lets make it 14 days and Pac said no.

logrus
01-08-2010, 07:55 PM
and Mayweather said lets make it 14 days and Pac said no.

Which means 60+ days of Random blood testing and immediate testing after the fight along with the random piss tests he will undergo leading up to the fight and after the fight.

Unless you believe he can cycle on, then cycle off and test clean, plus get the benefits of a full cycle and said cycle would actually benefit Pac.

J.B.
01-08-2010, 09:03 PM
LOL, that doesn't have anything to do with racism; it's a metaphor which describes Mayweather's career in the past 5 years. It should be KFD (Kentucky Fried Duck), but, he's also afraid to fight top welterweights or anybody who can wipe that zero from his record, so a chicken will work fine. A few more:

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs240.snc3/22772_273773304991_721664991_4649775_7378172_n.jpg http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs095.snc3/16243_1144693703109_1400516580_30355209_6127318_n. jpg

I get the joke, but honestly it's tasteless and stupid and you cannot actually discuss facts about Boxing because you are not really a fan of the sport. Just a fan of Manny.

Every time you talk about Floyd, it's nothing but s**t talk and bad jokes. You don't see me posting photoshops of Manny because I'm not a hater. I would rather contribute to the discussion with a rational thought rather than just blind hatred. We get it, you don't like Floyd. Got any new material? Or an actual thought? Heaven forbid somebody comes along and tells you that you are being ridiculous and actually proves you wrong time and time again. That person must be a Floyd nuthugger, right? Because, there is no possible way that you could be blindly following the same propaganda of every other hardcore Pac-fan and Floyd hater, right?

Instead of beating the same war drum, why not address some of the counter points I have given you over the last 12 months? Oh, that's right, you can't. Every time it's been laid out in front of you to see, you just choose to ignore it. Yeah, lets just ignore the facts of what has happened in Boxing history and make up our own version because we don't like Floyd Mayweather....that's basically what you and all the other haters are doing.

It ultimately does lead one to think a part of it might just be racist. I mean, we know that is true about a lot of the hardcore Pinoy Pac fans, but I really don't think that's the case with you or anyone else around here. However, posting KFC ads won't help prove that point. When you can start addressing the points I make with logical and thought out responses, then I may start taking you seriously again.

The only person ducking anything is you ducking the facts.

J.B.
01-08-2010, 09:05 PM
Which means 60+ days of Random blood testing and immediate testing after the fight along with the random piss tests he will undergo leading up to the fight and after the fight.

Unless you believe he can cycle on, then cycle off and test clean, plus get the benefits of a full cycle and said cycle would actually benefit Pac.

Well, according to experts on steroids, that's exactly what he could do.

I guess we should believe you though, right?

J.B.
01-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Thats odd cause I think Arum is clueless 99% of the time on things in relation to Manny. MAnny agreed to testing up until 24 days before the fight and directly after the fight. and had agreed to the random NSAC tests. So I don't see why the May camp was still with issues.

I was right when I said this fight wouildn't happen, and I will be right again come this weekend JM :tongue0011:

Arum is his promoter and his mouthpiece. Clueless or not, the man still represents Manny and has him legally bound to a contract with Top Rank.

Random means RANDOM. Why is that so hard to understand?

Oh, and I still don't think this fight is dead in the water by any means. If 2010 comes to an end and the fight does not happen, then I will be surprised.

matthughesfan21
01-08-2010, 09:11 PM
Which means 60+ days of Random blood testing and immediate testing after the fight along with the random piss tests he will undergo leading up to the fight and after the fight.

Unless you believe he can cycle on, then cycle off and test clean, plus get the benefits of a full cycle and said cycle would actually benefit Pac.
i'm not saying Pac is a roider, but you can cycle in 24 days

J.B.
01-08-2010, 09:22 PM
i'm not saying Pac is a roider, but you can cycle in 24 days

Rather than address that point, they will just attack Floyd again or they will become steroids experts in the blink of an eye.

Nobody wants to just have that discussion, because then it becomes clearly obvious that Pac looks silly in all of this. Instead, they would rather attack Floyd and call him a pussy based on flawed logic and their own version of history rather than accept the facts.

Seriously, it's really sad to see what are otherwise intelligent people completely ignoring the facts that are presented in front of them simply based on their personal dislike of another human being. It's almost as if they believe that if they repeat something enough times it will become true.

J.B.
01-08-2010, 11:41 PM
If MAy for his next fight demands blood testing, and pushes for it to become the norm. Then I will change my view, but for now I think this is just an excuse.

Ellerbe said the drug-testing procedure will be a part of every fight Mayweather is involved in for the rest of his career.
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=AhI0CRJTqJczhkCmup4yX_yUxLYF?slug=ki-pacfloydnegotiations010810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Now, if they don't hold true to that, you can call them on it, but it's right there in print for everybody to see.

Here is another gem from the article
Dr. Don H. Catlin, the head of the Los Angeles-based non-profit Anti-Doping Research, Inc., said a 24-day cutoff for blood testing is not sufficient to prevent abuse. One of the concerns with such a long blood-testing cutoff prior to the date of competition would be the potential use of Erythropoietin, or EPO.

But Catlin said that wouldn’t be the only concern if there were a 24-day cutoff imposed.

“If you have a 24-day window that’s free, with no testing, you can take whatever you want and you’re not going to get caught, end of story,” Catlin said. “[Urine testing] does matter, yes, but they’re not going to catch everything by urine testing alone. What you would do is to take Mircera [a type of EPO], which is available and which is not easy to detect in urine and away you go. You need a blood test.”

logrus
01-09-2010, 01:22 AM
Well, according to experts on steroids, that's exactly what he could do.

I guess we should believe you though, right?

Some of the sites I visit ain't all rainbows and carebearish like this one. I know a lot more on the subject then you would think. Not only that but considering I am around it a lot with friends, work, and sports I do know a thing or two.

i'm not saying Pac is a roider, but you can cycle in 24 days

You only have access to a few drugs that will enter and leave the system in that time, but it also takes time to build to its peak performance, in that sense by that time you have to be off the cycle. Then you have to be weary off the randome pee testing.

Rather than address that point, they will just attack Floyd again or they will become steroids experts in the blink of an eye.

Nobody wants to just have that discussion, because then it becomes clearly obvious that Pac looks silly in all of this. Instead, they would rather attack Floyd and call him a pussy based on flawed logic and their own version of history rather than accept the facts.

Seriously, it's really sad to see what are otherwise intelligent people completely ignoring the facts that are presented in front of them simply based on their personal dislike of another human being. It's almost as if they believe that if they repeat something enough times it will become true.

I forgot what that facts were to be honest lol Brief me in the conference room would be much appreciated...

J.B.
01-09-2010, 04:26 AM
Some of the sites I visit ain't all rainbows and carebearish like this one. I know a lot more on the subject then you would think. Not only that but considering I am around it a lot with friends, work, and sports I do know a thing or two.

Okay, I can respect that you are probably more educated on the subject of PED cycling than I am. As I have stated, I am not an expert on doping and I am only going off what I have read. However, how can you deny what is being said by various experts on the subject? I'm meaning for any of this sound sarcastic either, it's a legit question.

I took the time to read the 2009 WADA guidelines on testing and how tests should be planned and implemented and it is pretty clear that testing needs to be completely random. I mean, if all these doctors and people who work for these big agencies are wrong about how the testing should be done, then how did they get their jobs? :blink:

You only have access to a few drugs that will enter and leave the system in that time, but it also takes time to build to its peak performance, in that sense by that time you have to be off the cycle. Then you have to be weary off the randome pee testing.

Victor Conte, the guy who ran BALCO, and who implemented Shane Mosley in his use of EPO, came out and said that a lot of people perform better once they cycle off the drugs and that there are certain drugs out there that can be cycled out in a matter of hours. Again, I am not an expert, I am just repeating what was said by someone who supposedly is.


I forgot what that facts were to be honest lol Brief me in the conference room would be much appreciated...

The facts are that Manny is no angel and Floyd is no devil, and I think that has pretty much been the linchpin of this ongoing debate. People can like or dislike whoever they want, of course, but when they ignore facts from the history of the sport it destroys their credibility on the issue. I get it though, believe me I do. Hating on Floyd is the fashionable thing to do, and his flashy lifestyle and giant ego make that easy to do.

Still, when people make claims that Floyd is a chicken and he is ducking fighters, they need to be able to answer the counter points about each fighter in question. Simply ignoring the fact that he tried to make fights with Mosley and Cotto but they declined won't cut it. Ignoring the time-line of events around the Margarito offer also won't cut it. I can go on and on, all the way back to the days when Floyd fought at 130 and guys like Casamayor and Johnston claimed they didn't get a shot at Mayweather, but at the same time Floyd was beating up on guys like Angel Manfreddy, Genaro Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, and Diego Corrales. Besides, had Floyd fought them and beaten them, the neigh-sayers would just say he was SUPPOSED to beat them and they would just pick from a list of some other no-names and say he ducked that person instead. So really, no matter what, it's hard for a guy like Floyd to ever get the full credit he deserves. Just like the Marquez fight, the guy was ranked number 2 P4P and Floyd had not boxed in 2 years, but they s**t on Floyd because he was bigger than Marquez, but in the same breath he is not too big to fight Pacquiao? It's a giant circle jerk of haters and frankly it's a joke. You don't hear those same voices saying anything about Pac making fighters drain weight to fight him like he did to Oscar. Or, how they convinced the sanctioning body to let him fight for the 147 title at a 145 catch weight against Cotto. You hear nothing about those things from that side of the field.

It is always about timing when it comes to picking your next fight, and that goes for both fighters. A lot of times, certain fights don't come together for a plethora of reasons and once one fighter moves on to bigger things and becomes a star the other guy will always wonder "what if"? It don't mean that the guy who moved on was afraid to fight you, it just means it did not work out for whatever reason. Now, this type of situation is a lot different because we are talking about a super fight between two huge stars in the sport. Negotiations are more in depth and a lot of money is involved, in this case the most ever. What I say is if you are going to comment on a subject, then be prepared to look at the whole situation and understand the politics and nuances of the sport. It's easy to call a man a coward, but it's a lot harder to use your brain and rationalize the information put before you. Of course, some will still say that even after dissecting all the facts they come to the same conclusion and Mayweather is "afraid", but those people are nothing more than haters who are not using sound logic to reach their conclusions, but rather a predisposed bias.

People also tend to ignore the fact that the same man who is leading the Anti-Floyd bandwagon today, Bob Arum, was the guy who was calling Floyd the best fighter ever when he was with his company. Arum even went so far as to say Floyd was better than Ali and SRL. Now, he tells everyone that Manny is the best ever and Floyd is trash and a coward. A lot of time people use selective memory on things like this. They will vividly remember who a certain guy didn't fight, but forget all about the guys their favorite fighter did not fight. Or, they will be all up arms over weight demand by one fighter, but then forget all about the time their fighter made the same demand. It's stupid, and I have been saying that all along.

I like both fighters, and I am not looking to see Manny's career be undone by any of this stuff. However, I am also sick of the childish insults toward Floyd and total disregard for facts and logic from the hardcore Pacquiao supporters I see on various forums including this one. In fact, I am surprised Atom has not jumped in this thread the last few days to call me Floyd nuthugger, because again, it's much easier to do that then it is to actually debate the facts when you know you can't win.

J.B.
01-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Well, there are some interesting and juicy updates in all of this and it's important to point them out.

Issue Number 1 - Xylocaine

The Pacquiao fans and a couple reports have tried to spin a 2002 story into accusations that it is Floyd who is using banned substances. The whole thing is ridiculous and again Boxing history proves that. The substance in question is called Xylocaine and it is injected into joints and muscles to relieve stress and pain from injuries. It is similar to a cortisone shot that is used by most athletes to play through an injury.

However, Xylocaine/lidocaine is banned from being used within a week of the fight which in turn has added a bunch of fuel to the fire of misguided fans. Naturally, what that side is not telling you is that xylocaine and cortisone shots have been being used by a laundry list of fighters for years, including Muhammad Ali and even Freddie Roach. The effects of the drug actually do more damage to the athlete using them over and over again for a long time. They can get nerve damage and also over strain the already injured limb. Still, it does not give you extra strength, or make you hit harder or faster and it's effects are constantly diminishing as the athlete is putting strain on the area. The use of this drug has only come under more scrutiny in recent years as more boxing commissions banned it on the basis that a fighter can do more damage to themselves if they can't feel the damage they are doing because they killed their nerve receptors. This is also not anything new in the way of news, Ricky Hatton's camp was adamant about strict testing for the drug when he fought Mayweather in 2007 and we all know Floyd has suffered from hand problems.

If you want to argue that using these type of shots are still "cheating", then that is a completely separate issue, however lets be very clear that the usage of these shots is widespread and goes back many years. So, this is not really anything taboo amongst the athletes like the usage of HGH or EPO. However, let me make it perfectly clear before anybody says that I am giving Floyd another pass on this situation that if it were to be shown that Floyd Mayweather was knowingly using this drug where it is clearly a violation of the rules than I would be the first one to condemn him for it, but that has not ever been the case, and in fact even the actual report of the rumor is a bit questionable in it's nature. However, regardless of the validity or the misguided logic on the subject, it certainly is good cannon-fodder for the Pac side.

Issue Number 2 - Friday Night Fights

Now, this next topic is interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV7-yUSVGho

People can watch this video from yesterday's Friday Night Fights for themselves and establish their own take on this, but I will just address some key points...

1. Brian Kenny and Dan Rafael basically make it a point to paint Floyd as the bad guy, which is to be expected, especially from Kenny.

2. Brian Kenny throws softball questions at Freddie Roach and don't even bother to follow up like a good reporter when Roach contradicts himself numerous times.

3. Freddie Roach contradicts himself numerous times and says things like...

a)"Manny does not care about the public perception that he is hiding something." However clearly he does because he is suing everybody for defamation.

b)"Manny doesn't feel right for 3 days after giving blood" Well, then what is wrong with 14 days?

c)"Who is Mayweather gonna fight, Malignaggi?" How come Paulie Malignaggi was a replacement for Manny to fight just last week but now if Mayweather fights him he is nothing?

4. Dan Rafael admits straight up that the request for stricter testing was made from the very beginning. Even though you could tell it pained him to do it, and he quickly followed it up with another jab at Floyd

THEN IT GETS REAL JUICY

Teddy Atlas basically comes along and drops a bomb by saying that a source that he trusts actually saw emails from Pac's team that they wanted to cover up any positive drug tests. This is something that was reported in the NY Daily News by Tim Smith last week and it was largely written off as being a fabrication. However, Teddy Atlas is a pretty well respected man in the sport and if it is a source that he claims he trusts there is no reason to think Teddy would be lying. It does not mean the information is definitely true, but I just don't doubt that Teddy is getting the info from a source he trusts because Teddy has been known to be quite vocal about problems in the sport in the past and he has no vested interest in either of these fighters.

However, to make it even more interesting, there is another unconfirmed rumor flying around that Michael Moorer may have been fired as Assistant Trainer by Freddie Roach after threatening to out Manny for cheating and that it was Moorer who gave that information to the Mayweather camp. Coincidentally, Teddy Atlas was Moorers trainer for years.

Could that have been Teddy's source? :ninja:

All of this is unconfirmed and could be complete BS, but it is still worth noting, and if it turns out to be true it really could be the smoking gun in this whole controversy. .

rockdawg21
01-09-2010, 02:01 PM
I pretty much ignore every point you make in the same way you ignore anybody who says something against Floyd. Others make points in the same fashion you make points about Pac, but you alleviate the conversation in most cases by belittling them with "you're uneducated about boxing" or referring to them as a hater. There just really isn't any discussing Mayweather with you because one is instantly branded as a "hater" in your eyes. Floyd does a lot of ****ty and shady things to make himself look good, talks **** all the time, and goes after easy fights rather than stepping up to real challenges. This was not the Floyd of old, but now that he's on top, he refuses to make the attempt. I understand the guy has everything to lose if he were to lose, but one can't begin to make claims about being the best of all-time when they haven't even made an attempt to clear out their own division.

On another note, Dennis Guillermo of examiner.com seemed to have an inside track long before the staging of Mayweather and Pac came to fruition. He was stating from inside Mayweather's camp that Mayweather was already training to fight Matthew Hatton in Britain. Looks as if that may become a reality. He called it a long time ago and said this is just posturing by Mayweather's camp. He feels it will happen later this year though so maybe this is just posturing to pump up the fight for later in the year. I just hope the fight happens. A lot of people seem optimistic it will happen later this year, but who really knows? As of now, it appears that Pac will fight Joshua Clottey at Dallas on March 13.

J.B.
01-09-2010, 02:26 PM
I pretty much ignore every point you make in the same way you ignore anybody who says something against Floyd. Others make points in the same fashion you make points about Pac, but you alleviate the conversation in most cases by belittling them with "you're uneducated about boxing" or referring to them as a hater. There just really isn't any discussing Mayweather with you because one is instantly branded as a "hater" in your eyes. Floyd does a lot of ****ty and shady things to make himself look good, talks **** all the time, and goes after easy fights rather than stepping up to real challenges. This was not the Floyd of old, but now that he's on top, he refuses to make the attempt. I understand the guy has everything to lose if he were to lose, but one can't begin to make claims about being the best of all-time when they haven't even made an attempt to clear out their own division.

On another note, Dennis Guillermo of examiner.com seemed to have an inside track long before the staging of Mayweather and Pac came to fruition. He was stating from inside Mayweather's camp that Mayweather was already training to fight Matthew Hatton in Britain. Looks as if that may become a reality. He called it a long time ago and said this is just posturing by Mayweather's camp. He feels it will happen later this year though so maybe this is just posturing to pump up the fight for later in the year. I just hope the fight happens. A lot of people seem optimistic it will happen later this year, but who really knows? As of now, it appears that Pac will fight Joshua Clottey at Dallas on March 13.


The reason I say you are a hater with lack of knowledge about the sport is because for the last year you have done nothing but attack Floyd and post cheap photoshopped pics but you cannot even address the facts about the fights and the fighters you claim he is ducking. Seriously, we still have yet to compare lists... remember that?

You say I ignore points about Floyd but that is a flat out lie. What I do is ADDRESS points with counter points and opinions, and just like you ignore every counter point I bring to the table, you also ignore the criticism I have given Floyd. Bottom line is, if you go back and read everything, I've been fair and given honest and well thought out opinions on the matter.

As for the idea of Floyd fighting Matt Hatton, I already said that is a bad move. But remember, Mayweather's camp has not made one single public announcement regarding a replacement for the Pacquiao fight and there have been all sorts of rumors about everyone from Hatton, to Malignaggi and others. Pac and Arum are the ones who have raced to pull the plug on these negotiations and stonewalled Mayweather on something should be a non issue and they have been sticking their foot in their mouths the whole time too.

I have said it before and I will say it again, if the fight don't happen BOTH men will share in the blame, but Manny Pacquiao has taken a big PR hit on this one, and you, Rock, have failed to address any of the suspicious activities of the last month.

rockdawg21
01-09-2010, 02:39 PM
JB, if all you can do is point out that I'm being "racist" against Floyd, I'm done with the conversation completely. I'll edit my post, but remember, the picture insinuates that Floyd is a coward, yellow-belly, fraidy-cat, or whatever one wants to call it. I know, I'm just being a "hater" without logic or historical knowledge because Floyd does choose to fight the toughest fighters and not avoid the toughest fighters in the WW division such as Mosley, Margacheato, Cotto, etc.

I can't edit my post :(

J.B.
01-09-2010, 03:05 PM
JB, if all you can do is point out that I'm being "racist" against Floyd, I'm done with the conversation completely. I'll edit my post, but remember, the picture insinuates that Floyd is a coward, yellow-belly, fraidy-cat, or whatever one wants to call it. I know, I'm just being a "hater" without logic or historical knowledge because Floyd does choose to fight the toughest fighters and not avoid the toughest fighters in the WW division such as Mosley, Margacheato, Cotto, etc.

I can't edit my post :(

Well, I edited my post. I'm not trying to hit anybody below the belt, just trying to prove a point.

I already said earlier that I don't think you are really racist, but you can't deny the racial element to some of the stuff coming from some of the Pacquiao fans. Heck, even the article you posted on Page 11 called this "Black Propaganda", and that was by Mr Guillermo from the examiner as well. For the record, the examiner posts a LOT of third hand knowledge and biased opinions.

Yes, you are being a hater. We have long established that you don't like Floyd, and you have admitted that you are a Floyd hater, so that is not the issue. However, I will repeat it over and over again. If you are not going to give a factual analysis to the counter-points about the Mosley, Cotto, and Margarito fights than you are simply repeating cliche catch-phrases without actually being able to back up your claim.

I will stop there and ask that you go back through and read some of the other things I have posted recently and address those points. Such as the latest news about Xylocaine and the Teddy Atlas controversy.

logrus
01-10-2010, 02:28 AM
Okay, I can respect that you are probably more educated on the subject of PED cycling than I am. As I have stated, I am not an expert on doping and I am only going off what I have read. However, how can you deny what is being said by various experts on the subject? I'm meaning for any of this sound sarcastic either, it's a legit question.

I took the time to read the 2009 WADA guidelines on testing and how tests should be planned and implemented and it is pretty clear that testing needs to be completely random. I mean, if all these doctors and people who work for these big agencies are wrong about how the testing should be done, then how did they get their jobs? :blink:



Victor Conte, the guy who ran BALCO, and who implemented Shane Mosley in his use of EPO, came out and said that a lot of people perform better once they cycle off the drugs and that there are certain drugs out there that can be cycled out in a matter of hours. Again, I am not an expert, I am just repeating what was said by someone who supposedly is.




The facts are that Manny is no angel and Floyd is no devil, and I think that has pretty much been the linchpin of this ongoing debate. People can like or dislike whoever they want, of course, but when they ignore facts from the history of the sport it destroys their credibility on the issue. I get it though, believe me I do. Hating on Floyd is the fashionable thing to do, and his flashy lifestyle and giant ego make that easy to do.

Still, when people make claims that Floyd is a chicken and he is ducking fighters, they need to be able to answer the counter points about each fighter in question. Simply ignoring the fact that he tried to make fights with Mosley and Cotto but they declined won't cut it. Ignoring the time-line of events around the Margarito offer also won't cut it. I can go on and on, all the way back to the days when Floyd fought at 130 and guys like Casamayor and Johnston claimed they didn't get a shot at Mayweather, but at the same time Floyd was beating up on guys like Angel Manfreddy, Genaro Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, and Diego Corrales. Besides, had Floyd fought them and beaten them, the neigh-sayers would just say he was SUPPOSED to beat them and they would just pick from a list of some other no-names and say he ducked that person instead. So really, no matter what, it's hard for a guy like Floyd to ever get the full credit he deserves. Just like the Marquez fight, the guy was ranked number 2 P4P and Floyd had not boxed in 2 years, but they s**t on Floyd because he was bigger than Marquez, but in the same breath he is not too big to fight Pacquiao? It's a giant circle jerk of haters and frankly it's a joke. You don't hear those same voices saying anything about Pac making fighters drain weight to fight him like he did to Oscar. Or, how they convinced the sanctioning body to let him fight for the 147 title at a 145 catch weight against Cotto. You hear nothing about those things from that side of the field.

It is always about timing when it comes to picking your next fight, and that goes for both fighters. A lot of times, certain fights don't come together for a plethora of reasons and once one fighter moves on to bigger things and becomes a star the other guy will always wonder "what if"? It don't mean that the guy who moved on was afraid to fight you, it just means it did not work out for whatever reason. Now, this type of situation is a lot different because we are talking about a super fight between two huge stars in the sport. Negotiations are more in depth and a lot of money is involved, in this case the most ever. What I say is if you are going to comment on a subject, then be prepared to look at the whole situation and understand the politics and nuances of the sport. It's easy to call a man a coward, but it's a lot harder to use your brain and rationalize the information put before you. Of course, some will still say that even after dissecting all the facts they come to the same conclusion and Mayweather is "afraid", but those people are nothing more than haters who are not using sound logic to reach their conclusions, but rather a predisposed bias.

People also tend to ignore the fact that the same man who is leading the Anti-Floyd bandwagon today, Bob Arum, was the guy who was calling Floyd the best fighter ever when he was with his company. Arum even went so far as to say Floyd was better than Ali and SRL. Now, he tells everyone that Manny is the best ever and Floyd is trash and a coward. A lot of time people use selective memory on things like this. They will vividly remember who a certain guy didn't fight, but forget all about the guys their favorite fighter did not fight. Or, they will be all up arms over weight demand by one fighter, but then forget all about the time their fighter made the same demand. It's stupid, and I have been saying that all along.

I like both fighters, and I am not looking to see Manny's career be undone by any of this stuff. However, I am also sick of the childish insults toward Floyd and total disregard for facts and logic from the hardcore Pacquiao supporters I see on various forums including this one. In fact, I am surprised Atom has not jumped in this thread the last few days to call me Floyd nuthugger, because again, it's much easier to do that then it is to actually debate the facts when you know you can't win.

Conte fed that same line to his users millions of times, but look who was busted and look whos blood was tested years later and busted. If it was only a few hours then there really should have been no casualties from Balco. I only know of one steroid that stays in the system for bout 4-5 hours and that stuff is prescribed for asthma patients, but it has been used by athletes to cut weight. It does not effect mass or strength like some of the other known ones.

Most cycles take a few days to be at there peak performance it really depends on the dose someone takes and what they are actually taking not to mention the users use. Then you have to factor in the way in which they are taking the steroid, injection vs pill vs oral all react differently. Most over the counter testi boosters have atleat 5-7 days before the effects will work and the user will notice.

The off cycle is a bit different, the steroid is in the system still keeping testi levels elevated, but as the days go on the level of testi drops and if you dont cycle right you actually end up with lower levels of testi and high estrogen levels. You really don't perform better during this time but you really don't lose much either but this is really dependent on the user and the drug of choice.

I hate to say this but I know natural bodybuilders who compete and placed very well while on the juice. But the list doesn't even end there. I know of Minor League baseball players who use enhancers, as well as arena football players. I also know of some small venue mma fighters as well. If you were to ask for my op, I would say in boxing blood test should be random from the day of the fight singing til the 7th day prior to a fight and then immediately after wards along will random urine testing from date of signing til the day after a fight. It really shouldn't be an attack on Manny and a tactic to single him out. but instead a new way to ensure that each fight is natural and clean.

Anyways my conclusion on Manny and May is my own personal feelings on both fighters based solely on the nuts and bolts with missing screws I call a brain. Its not media driven or rivalry driven.

Well nuff ramblings, I need to post it an see the damage I done. :frantics:

J.B.
01-10-2010, 07:55 AM
Conte fed that same line to his users millions of times, but look who was busted and look whos blood was tested years later and busted. If it was only a few hours then there really should have been no casualties from Balco. I only know of one steroid that stays in the system for bout 4-5 hours and that stuff is prescribed for asthma patients, but it has been used by athletes to cut weight. It does not effect mass or strength like some of the other known ones.

Most cycles take a few days to be at there peak performance it really depends on the dose someone takes and what they are actually taking not to mention the users use. Then you have to factor in the way in which they are taking the steroid, injection vs pill vs oral all react differently. Most over the counter testi boosters have atleat 5-7 days before the effects will work and the user will notice.

The off cycle is a bit different, the steroid is in the system still keeping testi levels elevated, but as the days go on the level of testi drops and if you dont cycle right you actually end up with lower levels of testi and high estrogen levels. You really don't perform better during this time but you really don't lose much either but this is really dependent on the user and the drug of choice.

I hate to say this but I know natural bodybuilders who compete and placed very well while on the juice. But the list doesn't even end there. I know of Minor League baseball players who use enhancers, as well as arena football players. I also know of some small venue mma fighters as well. If you were to ask for my op, I would say in boxing blood test should be random from the day of the fight singing til the 7th day prior to a fight and then immediately after wards along will random urine testing from date of signing til the day after a fight. It really shouldn't be an attack on Manny and a tactic to single him out. but instead a new way to ensure that each fight is natural and clean.

Anyways my conclusion on Manny and May is my own personal feelings on both fighters based solely on the nuts and bolts with missing screws I call a brain. Its not media driven or rivalry driven.

Well nuff ramblings, I need to post it an see the damage I done. :frantics:

Okay, so basically, you reinforced everything I have said by agreeing that testing should be random and it should include blood.

I see you mentioned a drug that is commonly used by "asthma patients" is being abused by fighters, and I just thought that I would mention that former HW champ Shannon Briggs got busted last week for testing positive for a drug he said was for asthma. Kinda funny.

Also, Conte may be a dirty player in all of this too, but the bottom line is that the guy does know steroids. Besides, just because the blood was tested years later don't mean the athlete didn't know how to beat the testing when he or she was originally being tested. It only makes sense that as science and technology advances, so would the testing capabilities. Isn't that the reason they save the sample?

rockdawg21
01-10-2010, 02:21 PM
I will stop there and ask that you go back through and read some of the other things I have posted recently and address those points. Such as the latest news about Xylocaine and the Teddy Atlas controversy.
I think the Xylocaine issue is stupid. I started reading that the other day and felt it was a pretty pathetic attempt to point the finger at Floyd regarding drug use. IMO, if it's legal in that state, he has every right to use the pain killer. Big deal. Plus, is that even on the NSAC's list of banned substances? Honestly don't know, but if it isn't, he can abuse it all he wants :laugh:

The Teddy Atlas controversy is dumb too. IMO, if there really were an e-mail such as that in existence, it would have been forwarded to the AP, then sent to Yahoo, ESPN, CNN, etc. as they have been covering this as well. On the flipside, let's say it does exist and they chose not to send it to the news, it would certainly prove that Mayweather, GBP, etc. are not trying to defame Pac or ruin his legacy, but truly seeking "the truth". However, I'd say the latter is true and Atlas is just starting more crap.

I agree with Logrus that ALL fighters should be randomly tested, I'm not against that one bit. What I AM against is the fact that one fighter is being singled out without any evidence whatsoever. The burden of proof is on the accuser's hands, not the defendant whom has every right to refuse a test he doesn't deem he should take.

Another thing I'm not sure how many people realize this. In 2008, Schaefer balked at Mosley being subjected to random blood testing stating, "Whatever tests they want them to take, Shane will submit to that. We are not going to do other tests than the Nevada commission requires," Schaefer said. "The fact is Shane is not a cheater and he does not need to be treated like one." And this is coming from a guy where his fighter had FAILED a drug test, unlike Manny who has NOT failed a drug test. Granted, I realize Schaefer is just the voice of his fighter, but it certainly doesn't help solidify any of his statements for Manny being subjected to random blood testing:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-12-25-goldenboybloodtests_N.htm
Promoter balked at blood testing for Mosley in 2008

Updated 12/25/2009 1:38 AM

By J. Michael Falgoust, USA TODAY

Just last year, Golden Boy Promotions was against blood testing when one of its fighters, Shane Mosley, was asked to submit to it for a fight in Las Vegas.

Mosley, who admitted to taking designer steroids in 2003 inadvertently before a fight with Golden Boy president Oscar De La Hoya, consented to any form of drug testing before facing Zab Judah but the promoter objected.

Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer told AP at the time that he'd consent to whatever testing that was required by Nevada State Athletic Commission and nothing more. The NSAC tests urine before and after fights but not blood at random like the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

A proposed March 13 superfight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather has fallen through over Olympic-style drug testing. Mayweather wanted the Filipino to accept random blood testing by USADA. Pacquiao agreed to three tests, including two before their bout.

"Whatever tests they want them to take, Shane will submit to that. We are not going to do other tests than the Nevada commission requires," Schaefer said. "The fact is Shane is not a cheater and he does not need to be treated like one."

Judah wanted testing immediately on Mosley as well as right before and after the bout. Judah was injured before the fight could take place and it was cancelled.

Mosley, who is facing Andre Berto on Jan. 30, is a potential future opponent for Pacquiao.

J.B.
01-10-2010, 08:45 PM
I am watching the Playoffs right now so I don't have time for a long post...

BUT

I did point out the hypocrisy of GBP on the Mosley issue, but remember that GBP is only acting as a talking head for the Mayweather camp. The demands were Floyd's.

I think that got overlooked because people don't like to actually read my diatribes, :laugh:

J.B.
01-10-2010, 09:00 PM
I think the Xylocaine issue is stupid. I started reading that the other day and felt it was a pretty pathetic attempt to point the finger at Floyd regarding drug use. IMO, if it's legal in that state, he has every right to use the pain killer. Big deal. Plus, is that even on the NSAC's list of banned substances? Honestly don't know, but if it isn't, he can abuse it all he wants :laugh:

The Teddy Atlas controversy is dumb too. IMO, if there really were an e-mail such as that in existence, it would have been forwarded to the AP, then sent to Yahoo, ESPN, CNN, etc. as they have been covering this as well. On the flipside, let's say it does exist and they chose not to send it to the news, it would certainly prove that Mayweather, GBP, etc. are not trying to defame Pac or ruin his legacy, but truly seeking "the truth". However, I'd say the latter is true and Atlas is just starting more crap.

I agree with Logrus that ALL fighters should be randomly tested, I'm not against that one bit. What I AM against is the fact that one fighter is being singled out without any evidence whatsoever. The burden of proof is on the accuser's hands, not the defendant whom has every right to refuse a test he doesn't deem he should take.


Xylocaine is banned from use 7 days before the fight. Floyd has never failed any tests for this drug.

Teddy Atlas is a highly respected individual in Boxing. I'm not saying the E-mail rumor is true, and you present a logical question when it comes to it's existence. However, I also don't think that Atlas would just stir up crap for no reason, I think he actually believes his source. Also, Teddy basically makes the best point in this whole thing when he says that the common guy is gonna ask what is Pacquiao hiding by walking away from all this money over a blood test?

This is not a burden of proof issue. This is a fight negotiation and fighters ask for extra testing all the time and other stuff all the time. You can't deny that. Manny should have just taken the test, and because he is clean, there would have been no problems. Right?

If this was just a big bluff from Mayweather because he didn't want the fight, why not CALL THE BLUFF? :blink:

J.B.
01-11-2010, 04:14 AM
Okay, so some new developments today have cleared up some of the controversy, and created some more at the same time.

1. Pacquiao IS fighting Clottey, and the fight will be in Dallas. This effectively does kill any chance of the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight happening in March.

2. Richard Shaefer from Golden Boy has come out and said that Floyd WILL fight on March 13, but it will NOT be against Matthew Hatton. Shaefer has also said that they are already talking about lining up a super-fight with Shane Mosley and Floyd after we see the decision of the fight between Mosley and Andre Berto. Shaefer stated that Floyd has said he is more than willing to take a fight with Mosley.

3. Michael Moorer was finally caught up with for an interview and he denied all the rumors that he ever talked to anybody from Team Mayweather and also denied that Pacquiao is using anything. He also said that he did talk to Teddy Atlas and told him the same thing, so that means that whoever Teddy Atlas was referring to was clearly not Moorer, or at least that's how it appears. Teddy Atlas has yet to comment further on the situation.

J.B.
01-11-2010, 06:25 AM
In light of the fact that we now know the fight is officially dead for March 13, I am gonna dish out some blame to all the parties involved in this whole thing. Now, this is all based on what we publicly know about the negotiations.

Here goes...

1. Bob Arum - He is the most to blame in all of this, plain and simple. Arum has had a choke-hold on the sport of Boxing for decades and has been hostile towards working with Mayweather ever since Floyd left Top Rank. He has been threatening to pull the plug on the negotiations ever since before they even began. In the past 3 weeks he has said the fight is over about 3 or 4 times, and then issued one or two day deadlines to come to an agreement. He has been playing hardball from the very beginning and he has done this time and time again in the past. I will not deny the good things Arum HAS done for the sport in the past, but the bigger part of Boxing history is what he is constantly taking away, and all the lies, and the scandals, etc... Bottom line is, for all he has gotten out of Boxing, and all the under-handed crap he has pulled over the years, this 80 year old man should have made it his absolute number one top priority to see that this fight gets made. Bob Arum, a man who has never fought a match in his life, owes it to this sport and it's fans to shut his mouth and get the fight made, and so far he has failed. Shame on you Bob Arum, the sport of Boxing deserves better than you. :thumbsdown:

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Floyd is largely at fault in this mess too. First of all, I think it was a mistake to use Golden Boy to deal with Arum and Top Rank. Golden Boy and Top Rank have a rivaled history just like Floyd and Top Rank. Also, GBP has their own skeletons in the closet. Floyd should have handled it directly, or used an outside sports agent/lawyer. GBP has worked with Top Rank in the past, and they are big in the Boxing world, but there is just too much history there and when the mudslinging started it did not help Floyd. The request for extra testing was fair, but I think that when Manny balked it took Floyd by surprise. At that point, I think Floyd decided to press the issue because it clearly had gotten under Manny's skin, and made it easy to raise legitimate questions. Personally, I can understand why Floyd would continue to press the issue, but the fact is that his decision to do so is a reason the fight is not happening. :doh:

3. Manny Pacquiao - By default, Manny is just as much to blame as Floyd. Pacquio has been flexing his ego in negotiations ever since he fought Oscar de la Hoya and this time around was no different. He came to the table with a laundry list of requests that were met by the Mayweather camp and when asked to take random blood tests he and his camp went off the deep end. Their side claims they are not going to be bullied around, but the truth is they are acting like bullies themselves. Manny has let double talk from his own camp go unchecked and he has left us with more questions than answers this the entire time. If this hangup was about money, I would not have been surprised from either fighter's side. However, Pacquiao's reluctance to take random blood tests and his reaction to this have been a very big surprise to me. Manny, you messed up. :sad:

4. Robert Schaefer - I'm not even going to opine much about Golden Boy or Schaefer, because they are really just third party pawns that are looking to collect some extra money off the fight. However, Schaefer said it himself that they would all be "idiots" if they could not get this fight made. Well Mr. Schaefer, you are all idiots. :wink:

5. Roach & Co. - Freddie double talked too much on the testing issue and Alex Ariza's comments added a massive amount of fuel to the fire. Regardless if Manny is clean or not, they did a good job of making things look suspicious. Couple that in with the guy at the top of my list and it's really easy to see why Manny has taken a big PR hit from this. :duh:

6. HBO - Lastly, I am going to give just a tiny bit of blame to HBO, not a lot, but a tiny bit. See, I think they could have stepped up to the plate and done more to reach out to both fighters and convince them to make this fight happen. I am not saying that they didn't try at all, but there has been nothing reported that would suggest they went out of their way to get both fighters to reach an agreement on the testing. HBO has a lot of money to make in this whole thing too, and I think considering how long they have been dominating the broadcasting of marquee Boxing matches, there is a sense that they too owe this fight to the fans. :Whistle:

rockdawg21
01-11-2010, 11:05 AM
All good points JB :happy0159:

Arum is demanding a public apology from ESPN and Teddy Atlas. We'll just have to wait to see what comes of that. I don't think the e-mail exists. It just couldn't possibly exist, or that's bad press for Pac, GBP, Arum, etc. However, if Teddy Atlas is lying, he will probably be fired by ESPN, and rightfully so.

logrus
01-11-2010, 02:33 PM
In light of the fact that we now know the fight is officially dead for March 13, I am gonna dish out some blame to all the parties involved in this whole thing. Now, this is all based on what we publicly know about the negotiations.

Here goes...

1. Bob Arum - He is the most to blame in all of this, plain and simple. Arum has had a choke-hold on the sport of Boxing for decades and has been hostile towards working with Mayweather ever since Floyd left Top Rank. He has been threatening to pull the plug on the negotiations ever since before they even began. In the past 3 weeks he has said the fight is over about 3 or 4 times, and then issued one or two day deadlines to come to an agreement. He has been playing hardball from the very beginning and he has done this time and time again in the past. I will not deny the good things Arum HAS done for the sport in the past, but the bigger part of Boxing history is what he is constantly taking away, and all the lies, and the scandals, etc... Bottom line is, for all he has gotten out of Boxing, and all the under-handed crap he has pulled over the years, this 80 year old man should have made it his absolute number one top priority to see that this fight gets made. Bob Arum, a man who has never fought a match in his life, owes it to this sport and it's fans to shut his mouth and get the fight made, and so far he has failed. Shame on you Bob Arum, the sport of Boxing deserves better than you. :thumbsdown:

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Floyd is largely at fault in this mess too. First of all, I think it was a mistake to use Golden Boy to deal with Arum and Top Rank. Golden Boy and Top Rank have a rivaled history just like Floyd and Top Rank. Also, GBP has their own skeletons in the closet. Floyd should have handled it directly, or used an outside sports agent/lawyer. GBP has worked with Top Rank in the past, and they are big in the Boxing world, but there is just too much history there and when the mudslinging started it did not help Floyd. The request for extra testing was fair, but I think that when Manny balked it took Floyd by surprise. At that point, I think Floyd decided to press the issue because it clearly had gotten under Manny's skin, and made it easy to raise legitimate questions. Personally, I can understand why Floyd would continue to press the issue, but the fact is that his decision to do so is a reason the fight is not happening. :doh:

3. Manny Pacquiao - By default, Manny is just as much to blame as Floyd. Pacquio has been flexing his ego in negotiations ever since he fought Oscar de la Hoya and this time around was no different. He came to the table with a laundry list of requests that were met by the Mayweather camp and when asked to take random blood tests he and his camp went off the deep end. Their side claims they are not going to be bullied around, but the truth is they are acting like bullies themselves. Manny has let double talk from his own camp go unchecked and he has left us with more questions than answers this the entire time. If this hangup was about money, I would not have been surprised from either fighter's side. However, Pacquiao's reluctance to take random blood tests and his reaction to this have been a very big surprise to me. Manny, you messed up. :sad:

4. Robert Schaefer - I'm not even going to opine much about Golden Boy or Schaefer, because they are really just third party pawns that are looking to collect some extra money off the fight. However, Schaefer said it himself that they would all be "idiots" if they could not get this fight made. Well Mr. Schaefer, you are all idiots. :wink:

5. Roach & Co. - Freddie double talked too much on the testing issue and Alex Ariza's comments added a massive amount of fuel to the fire. Regardless if Manny is clean or not, they did a good job of making things look suspicious. Couple that in with the guy at the top of my list and it's really easy to see why Manny has taken a big PR hit from this. :duh:

Logrus That mofo said this fight would not happen

6. HBO - Lastly, I am going to give just a tiny bit of blame to HBO, not a lot, but a tiny bit. See, I think they could have stepped up to the plate and done more to reach out to both fighters and convince them to make this fight happen. I am not saying that they didn't try at all, but there has been nothing reported that would suggest they went out of their way to get both fighters to reach an agreement on the testing. HBO has a lot of money to make in this whole thing too, and I think considering how long they have been dominating the broadcasting of marquee Boxing matches, there is a sense that they too owe this fight to the fans. :Whistle:

What the ?!?!? :scared0015:

J.B.
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
All good points JB :happy0159:

Arum is demanding a public apology from ESPN and Teddy Atlas. We'll just have to wait to see what comes of that. I don't think the e-mail exists. It just couldn't possibly exist, or that's bad press for Pac, GBP, Arum, etc. However, if Teddy Atlas is lying, he will probably be fired by ESPN, and rightfully so.

Atlas will not be fired by ESPN.

ESPN didn't fire him when he almost came to blows with their Boxing programming director and was vocal about them playing favorites with certain promoters on Friday Night Fights. Like I said before. Teddy has a pretty good reputation in the business, and no real stake in this fight, so I don't think he would make something up out of malice. Atlas owes Arum and team Pacquiao no sort of apology for reporting the story, and he did say that he was not accusing Manny of anything but rather asking legitimate questions. Sure, the email would be bad press if it actually existed, but it's not like Arum & co. have helped give this any positive press over the last month anyway. Although, I will agree that it is likely just a rumor that got started because I really don't see why Mayweather's side would not have gone public with that information, unless again there is more going on that we don't know about.

I mean, this is simply ridiculous. Demanding an apology from ESPN, filing lawsuits, where does it stop? Are they really going to get this upset anytime somebody asks the question? Arum is not coming down on Michael Marley for reporting the baseless rumors about Michael Moorer, but Marley also makes it clear in his articles that he favors Pacquiao.

J.B.
01-20-2010, 08:08 PM
I am not gonna beat a dead horse too much more here, but I figured this information belonged in here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?id=4841739

There is an audio clip on that link of an interview just posted to ESPN.com that was done by Brian Kenny, with Manny Pacquiao, regarding the whole testing controversy with Mayweather and the now impending fight with Josua Clottey.

This surely begs the question my friends...

Who is the PR genius that let Manny do this? Seriously. I know his English is not the best, but if Manny is competent enough in the language to understand those questions, then I believe he is smart enough to know he was contradicting himself. He literally said in the first response that he has no problem giving blood, just not on the day of the fight. Then, when Kenny asks him why they could not agree to a 14 day cut off point for the testing, Pacquiao said because he is training hard during that time. So which is it?:huh:

On top of that, Manny seriously needs a better PR team. Check this out...no joke...

Since mid-December, Manny and his team have gone from saying...

they would pass any test

to no blood within 3-5 days of the fight

to urine testing will catch everything and we don't need blood testing

to no blood testing within 6 weeks

to no blood testing within 30 days

to no blood testing within 24 days

to I will give blood just not on the day of the fight

to no blood 15 days before because I am training hard

I'm not making that up, and I didn't even include all the other double talk and weird excuses that have already been discussed at great length in this thread, and I'm not saying that this means he is guilty. I am just saying that is very bad PR. Don't ya think? blink:

rockdawg21
02-05-2010, 11:28 PM
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e52/mshanecrowe/crickets.jpg :laugh:

J.B.
02-06-2010, 12:05 AM
Breaking news!!! :w00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DRg-Gx-zE

rockdawg21
02-06-2010, 03:29 AM
Maybe Mayweather can sign Pacquiao to a deal from his 1-star hotel room:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B80hBjn2uXk :laugh:

J.B.
02-06-2010, 03:52 AM
Maybe Mayweather can sign Pacquiao to a deal from his 1-star hotel room:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B80hBjn2uXk :laugh:

:rolleyes:

Floyd made enough money against Marquez to buy that hotel, or just about any hotel for that matter. The real funny part of that video is that Floyd was promoting Freck Billionaire back then and just recently I heard an interview where Floyd said that guy screwed him over and actually stole stuff from his house.

Here, if you want a good laugh, check out this interview with Pacquiao. Trust me, it's great. :wink:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KOUito3IGc

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atAhYz5V8Rw&feature=related

rockdawg21
02-06-2010, 03:58 AM
:rolleyes:

Floyd made enough money against Marquez to buy that hotel, or just about any hotel for that matter. The real funny part of that video is that Floyd was promoting Freck Billionaire back then and just recently I heard an interview where Floyd said that guy screwed him over and actually stole stuff from his house.

Here, if you want a good laugh, check out this interview with Pacquiao. Trust me, it's great. :wink:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KOUito3IGc

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atAhYz5V8Rw&feature=related
I just think it's funny that Floyd always brags about how much money he has, then shoots a promo commercial for his own record label with a $300 video camera from a 1-star hotel room. :rolleyes:

LOL, looks funny, I'll check that out in full tomorrow. Kinda reminds me of the way Conan O'Brien used to do that with Bill Clinton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp0OlogLYa4

J.B.
02-06-2010, 04:22 AM
I just think it's funny that Floyd always brags about how much money he has, then shoots a promo commercial for his own record label with a $300 video camera from a 1-star hotel room. :rolleyes:

LOL, looks funny, I'll check that out in full tomorrow. Kinda reminds me of the way Conan O'Brien used to do that with Bill Clinton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp0OlogLYa4

LOL, can I see those receipts for the camera and the room? :laugh:

Seriously though, it's just Floyd hyping the product he is affilated with, it's hardly a commercial. Not to mention, that style of video blog type promoting seems to be somewhat of a trend amongst rappers lately. However, I gotta say that I have always really doubted that Floyd's label would ever amount to anything but, according to Floyd, they are still promoting shows for their artists with some big name acts as of late, so good for them.

I can never hate on somebody for pursuing music, but I will say that both Floyd and Manny will always be better Boxer's than they are musicians. :laugh:

rockdawg21
02-06-2010, 04:36 AM
LOL, can I see those receipts for the camera and the room? :laugh:

Seriously though, it's just Floyd hyping the product he is affilated with, it's hardly a commercial. Not to mention, that style of video blog type promoting seems to be somewhat of a trend amongst rappers lately. However, I gotta say that I have always really doubted that Floyd's label would ever amount to anything but, according to Floyd, they are still promoting shows for their artists with some big name acts as of late, so good for them.

I can never hate on somebody for pursuing music, but I will say that both Floyd and Manny will always be better Boxer's than they are musicians. :laugh:
LOL, yeah, guess that's true. 50 Cent brought that whole "video mix tape" concept main stream. I prefer Chappelle's version of video mix tapes though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KSfdX3AFA :laugh:

Well, since they always seem to be in competition, I guarantee Floyd will never outsell Manny in records, lol.

It's crazy, you go to the Philippines and there are Pacquiao music albums. When I was there, they had just created a karaoke microphone (karaoke is a HUGE deal there - practically every home has their own machine) and Pac was the spokesmodel on TV and the cardboard stand-up in the malls. It really is Pac fever there, but understandably so as he's arguably the biggest star ever to come out of that country.

J.B.
02-06-2010, 04:49 AM
LOL, yeah, guess that's true. 50 Cent brought that whole "video mix tape" concept main stream. I prefer Chappelle's version of video mix tapes though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KSfdX3AFA :laugh:

Well, since they always seem to be in competition, I guarantee Floyd will never outsell Manny in records, lol.

It's crazy, you go to the Philippines and there are Pacquiao music albums. When I was there, they had just created a karaoke microphone (karaoke is a HUGE deal there - practically every home has their own machine) and Pac was the spokesmodel on TV and the cardboard stand-up in the malls. It really is Pac fever there, but understandably so as he's arguably the biggest star ever to come out of that country.

As a longtime DJ and Karaoke host I have seen and heard it all. Still, I gotta say, the idea of having to deal with a bunch of drunk bastards singing Manny Pacquiao songs all night is not appealing.


Best Karaoke scene ever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8X_kUL7PBY

rockdawg21
05-04-2010, 03:17 AM
I suppose it's time to resurrect the thread. It looks that Manny has softened his position on the blood-testing stance and has agreed to testing within 14 days of the fight. Previously, Mayweather was willing to go to that point, so hopefully we can get the fight this Fall. I didn't think that Pac had an official website and it seems strange this one reroutes to a craveonline.com domain, but there it is.

http://pacman.craveonline.com/articles/news/83002-official-statement-made-may-3rd-230-am-philippines-timeWhile speaking with Manny Pacquiao in his home in General Santos City Philippines. Manny Pacquiao made this Official Statement for his website http://mpboxing.com .

I AM WILLING TO TAKE BLOOD TESTS, JUST NOT THE DAY OF THE FIGHT.



I am willing to help the sport for the future of the sport. I do not want to see anyone cheat or cheat this sport. For that reason I am willing to consider taking blood as close as 14 days prior to the fight, as long as, my opponent does the same, and it is not a lot of blood, just enough to test.
I do not want anyone having an unfair advantage where someone may get hurt. I am willing to do my part to help this sport out.

When asked what did he think about the fight? Manny Pacquiao replied, "I have not seen the fight yet."

Manny Pacquiao is campaigning for Congressman during this time in his life, but we will keep you updated on further progress for his next upcoming fight.

Manny Pacquiao also stated, he is willing to take blood immediately after the fight in his locker room "No problem." Manny just does not want to take blood right before the fight, as he feels that may hurt the fighter, if not physically, maybe mentally.

EDIT: Strange that the link is not working now. It's gone from the website's front page as well. I has to be a BS statement if it were removed. Here's the "official" statement from Koncz posted on the same website:

http://pacman.craveonline.com/articles/news/83020-official-statement-from-mike-koncz
When asked about the Mayweather fight Michael Koncz who is Manny Pacquiao's Advisor stated, "Manny and I did not watch the fight, as we did not see a need to, as we thought it would be a boring fight. Based on the reaction of the fans that is what it was.



Mayweather is the furthest thing on our mind. Our focus has been and continues to be Manny's desire to become Congressman.

After the May 10th election I have arranged for Manny and his family to take a well deserved two week secluded vacation. It is expected that after the vacation that we will sit down and discuss and plan Manny Pacquiao's next fight.

As Manny has stated many times we are willing to fight anyone, anytime, anywhere in accordance with the athletic commissions rules and regulations in which ever state we fight in.

We will not be bullied into or entertain any additional rules or regulations to be imposed by our opponent.

To add to this, Ronnie Nathanielsz of Philboxing.com is denying the claim made by mpboxing.com, which I didn't think is Pac's official website anyways, especially since it reroutes to a craveonline.com domain. I'd be more likely to believe this article from philboxing.com than that one from mpboxing.com:

http://philboxing.com/news/story-38384.html
Pound-for-pound king and “Fighter of the Decade” Manny Pacquiao has vehemently denied a report filed by a certain Timothy James on one of the Pacquiao websites claiming that he had agreed to Floyd Mayweather Jr’s demand for a 14 day cut-off for random blood tests for a fight to push through.

We contacted Pacquiao’s adviser Michael Koncz about the report and asked him to double-check with Pacquiao.

Koncz got back to us a short while after he spoke to Pacquiao at his residence and said Pacquiao categorically stated "he never spoke to any reporter and never heard of the guy” who filed the story, even as he maintained that he had no official website although there are people who claim that they handle his official site.

Koncz quoted Pacquiao as saying he “never talked to anybody about boxing and his main concern is campaigning and winning the election on May 10. (Floyd) Mayweather is not even in our minds or in our thoughts."

However, Koncz quoted Pacquiao as saying "we’ll fight Mayweather or any other fighter anytime, any place under the rules and regulations of the Commission of the state where the fight takes place.”

The story alleged that the reporter spoke to Pacquiao in his home in General Santos City and that he had made an official statement for his website at 2:30 a.m. on May 3.
The statement quoted Pacquiao as saying “I am willing to help the sport for the future of the sport. I do not want to see anyone cheat or cheat this sport. For that reason I am willing to consider taking blood as close as 14 days prior to the fight, as long as, my opponent does the same, and it is not a lot of blood, just enough to test. I do not want anyone having an unfair advantage where someone may get hurt. I am willing to do my part to help this sport out.”

Manny Pacquiao was also alleged to have stated that he is willing to take blood immediately after the fight in his locker room "No problem." Manny just does not want to take blood right before the fight, as he feels that may hurt the fighter, if not physically, maybe mentally.

J.B.
05-04-2010, 07:26 AM
The mainstream people outside of the hardcore fans of Manny or haters of Mayweather are really backing Floyd on this issue, especially after Saturday.

Manny needs to just take the tests if he really wants to fight Floyd. The longer this drags on, the worse he looks.

If he stays under the spell of Bob Arum, we will likely see Pacquiao fight Margarito, and then I will be forced to admit Logrus was right about Mayweather and Pacquiao not fighting in 2010. I don't like having to admit Logrus is right, so Manny needs to quit being silly and just take the blood tests! :laugh:

rockdawg21
05-20-2010, 11:54 AM
More stuff flying around. At least, this quote is from a credible source:

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/258230/pacquiao-mellows-oks-drug-test
Pacquiao willing to take random dope test
By NICK GIONGCO
May 20, 2010, 4:44pm

Here’s a piece of good news to Floyd Mayweather Jr.

As part of efforts to agree on a November 13 fight, Manny Pacquiao said he is amenable to undergo random drug and urine testing 14 days before the fight.

“As long as they’re not getting a large amount of blood, I am willing to give out blood as close to two weeks before the fight,” Pacquiao told the Bulletin late Wednesday night during a lull in shooting a Ginebra commercial in Makati.

Pacquiao said he will not hesitate to be tested provided that the amount to be taken would be minimal, noted the 31-year-old fighter, gesturing with his pointer and index fingers a measurement equivalent to a short syringe.

Pacquiao and Mayweather had agreed in principle to face off but a last-minute demand by Mayweather for Olympic-style testing did not augur well with Pacquiao’s handlers, saying they would not be bullied into accepting his seemingly-outlandish terms.

Pacquiao narrated the incident during the first fight with Erik Morales in March 2005 when a large amount was taken from him on the eve of the fight that he eventually lost by unanimous decision.

“I felt very weak after they got the blood,” said Pacquiao, motioning with his fingers once again the size of the syringe that was used in extracting blood from his arm.

Meanwhile, Pacquiao, has his schedule all figured out: Congress in the daytime and gym in the afternoon.

Pacquiao said he can handle the role of being fighter and lawmaker and that “time management” is the key to getting things done.

“I will attend sessions in the morning until afternoon then I go to the gym around 4 or 5 p.m.,” said Pacquiao, who will take his oath as congressman of Sarangani on June 30.

“I will stay in the country during training camp then with two weeks before the fight, I will fly to the US,” said Pacquiao, stressing that during his absence, his staff will assume his countless responsibilities.

As in previous training camps, there would still be the usual early-morning roadwork then gym work in the afternoon, according to the reigning World Boxing Organization welterweight king.

“Nothing’s going to change as far as my training is concerned even though I am now a congressman because I will carefully map out my schedule. I will still wake up early becauseI have to run in the morning.”

The past few days, Pacquiao has been busy consulting with his political advisers so he can easily adjust to his new role by July.

Next month, Pacquiao will leave for New York to personally receive the Fighter of the Year award – his third – that will be given out by the Boxing Writers Association of America.

“I am truly honored by this award that I am about to receive,” said Pacquiao, whose trophy chest also includes numerous plaques and trophies given by the Philippine Sportswriters Association, the oldest media organization in the country that carefully tracked the boxer’s rise to fame and fortune.

J.B.
05-20-2010, 12:47 PM
That headline is blatantly misleading.

Pac still won't agree to random testing like he should. Heck, it was just last week that Pac was still saying no to random testing that isn't ordered by the commission because Floyd is trying to blood drain him to make him weak because Floyd is the bigger guy. If Manny did really say that he would now agree to a 14 day cut-off, what makes now so different? Why is 14 days okay today, but not back in January when Floyd was willing to compromise to make the fight happen?

Besides, it doesn't matter anyway, because Floyd already came out right after they signed the fight with Shane and said that he won't be offering any cut-off dates in further negotiations with Manny. So essentially, Manny is responding to an offer that has been off the table for months.

Buc Nasty
05-23-2010, 07:37 PM
This is getting stupid now. Manny has said he is willing to go closer than 14 days, basically the day before the fight and in the locker room straight after the fight so where is the problem now? There are no excuses left for Floyd as far as I'm concerned.

J.B I'm sure you will defend Floyd as always but how could Manny possibly gain any advantage if the blood is taken on these terms and he tests clean?

Even if Manny is on the juice Floyd will still beat him but I wanna see it! :hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit:

J.B.
05-23-2010, 08:37 PM
This is getting stupid now. Manny has said he is willing to go closer than 14 days, basically the day before the fight and in the locker room straight after the fight so where is the problem now? There are no excuses left for Floyd as far as I'm concerned.

J.B I'm sure you will defend Floyd as always but how could Manny possibly gain any advantage if the blood is taken on these terms and he tests clean?

Even if Manny is on the juice Floyd will still beat him but I wanna see it! :hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit:

You are dead wrong, and either making up lies or repeating lies, but I guess that it must just be me defending Floyd, right? :rolleyes:

Please show me, and the rest of the world, where Manny has said he agreed to give blood closer than 14 days. I'll wait right here....

Oh that's right, you can't because Manny never said that...

He said he would give blood after the fight, but not within 14 days before the fight (as it currently stands right now). Not to mention the position from Pacquiao and his camp has changed a minimum of 5 times already.

It's also funny how some people around here have this perception that I go out of my way to defend Mayweather. I have been critical of him on issues and I have supported him on issues. Overall, I am fan of his, but I'm a bigger fan of the sport than anything. I tell it like it is, and that usually ruffles the feathers of so-called boxing fans who think Pacquiao is a God.

If you are going to call me out, you better have your facts straight.

Crisco
05-23-2010, 09:33 PM
STFU and fight.

J.B.
05-23-2010, 10:43 PM
STFU and fight.

Dana White doesn't run the sport of Boxing.

These guys actually like to keep the money THEY earn. :laugh:

Thats why "contract negotiations" exist.

Buc Nasty
05-24-2010, 05:25 PM
You are dead wrong, and either making up lies or repeating lies, but I guess that it must just be me defending Floyd, right? :rolleyes:

Please show me, and the rest of the world, where Manny has said he agreed to give blood closer than 14 days. I'll wait right here....

Oh that's right, you can't because Manny never said that...

He said he would give blood after the fight, but not within 14 days before the fight (as it currently stands right now). Not to mention the position from Pacquiao and his camp has changed a minimum of 5 times already.

It's also funny how some people around here have this perception that I go out of my way to defend Mayweather. I have been critical of him on issues and I have supported him on issues. Overall, I am fan of his, but I'm a bigger fan of the sport than anything. I tell it like it is, and that usually ruffles the feathers of so-called boxing fans who think Pacquiao is a God.

If you are going to call me out, you better have your facts straight.

I wasn't calling you out I just knew you'd have something to say, is it your time of the month or something?

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/23/1483905/manny-pacquiao-agrees-to-undergo

I am not a liar dude, if this article is BS then my bad but I don't go around talking out of my ass, I thought you knew me better than that. I also thought you knew I'm rooting for Floyd if the fight does happen!

J.B.
05-24-2010, 05:41 PM
I wasn't calling you out I just knew you'd have something to say, is it your time of the month or something?

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/23/1483905/manny-pacquiao-agrees-to-undergo

I am not a liar dude, if this article is BS then my bad but I don't go around talking out of my ass, I thought you knew me better than that. I also thought you knew I'm rooting for Floyd if the fight does happen!

Well, you said "JB I'm sure you will defend Floyd as always"

That is calling me out to respond, which I did.

It's nothing personal against you, but yes, that article is a lie, or flying so low under the radar that not a single reputable boxing site has covered it.

When you read that article, it's not black and white that Pacquiao would go up closer than 14 days. It's like the author injected that little line in there that says "or even closer". Not to mention that the article you linked to links to another article as it's source, and the stories conflict each other.

The second article is written by an author in the Philippines who claims Pacquiao is "bending over backwards to make the fight happen". :rolleyes:

Also, there is a difference in the translations of what Pacquiao "supposedly said".

"Huwag lang sa day ng fight"

The Filipino site interprets that as "never on the day of the fight", and Bloody Elbow translates it as "just not on the day of the fight". There is a big difference in the way those two statements can be perceived. Never means NEVER, but it doesn't mean for sure that he would agree to the day before, whereas "just not" can be perceived as him saying any day before the day of the fight is fair game. Thats how biased journalists try to spin one thing into another and it's absolutely ridiculous. Let's also not forget that just a few weeks ago, there were some quotes on Manny's "official" website that Manny turned around and claimed he never said and that he doesn't even have an "official" website. So, add that together with the obvious language barrier, and it's almost impossible to know what to believe when it comes out of Manila.

Still, I wanna projectile vomit all over the screen when I read such blatant lies and misleading headlines. The bottom line is at this point Pacquiao still wont agree to RANDOM blood tests unless it's on his own terms. If the USADA testing was fine for Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather than Pacquiao needs to shut up and take the tests.

To be fair, we don't know what the actual response to any of this from team Mayweather has been. When asked for comment on Pacquiao's new stance, they simply said "no comment". Bob Arum has also been surprisingly quiet the last couple weeks. So, it could lead one to believe that they are already in negotiations and they are trying to keep things out of the press. However, the problem with that at this point is Manny Pacquiao. It's easy for Floyd to stay quiet and blend into the "celebrity background" here in the USA, but Manny is like the biggest thing since sliced bread in the Philippines and it's considerably harder for him to avoid constant questioning from the press.

Buc Nasty
05-24-2010, 06:13 PM
It's nothing personal against you

Thats cool then, but I'm sure you can understand calling me a liar made it seem like it was.

This article may not say the same thing but in the UK the BBC is a very reputable source.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8698753.stm

I still think despite all of the controversy, if Manny cheats he'll get found out so the onus is on Floyd to take the fight.

J.B.
05-24-2010, 06:52 PM
Thats cool then, but I'm sure you can understand calling me a liar made it seem like it was.

This article may not say the same thing but in the UK the BBC is a very reputable source.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8698753.stm

I still think despite all of the controversy, if Manny cheats he'll get found out so the onus is on Floyd to take the fight.

Yeah, the BBC is a good source, and that article doesn't say the same thing, it says what I've been telling you the whole time. Pacquiao has ONLY agreed to a 14 day cut-off, nothing closer.

The onus is on Manny, and it always has been. Floyd agreed to all of Manny's extra requests in round one of their negotiations, and this request is a SIMPLE request that Manny should have ZERO problem complying with. I, for one, will actually be disappointed in Floyd if he goes ahead with the compromise of 14 days. I'm not saying it should derail the fight, but the bottom line is that Pacquiao looks shady for not taking the tests the way they were meant to be implemented. As a fighter at the very top of the sport, Manny should be going out of his way to help show that we want to keep the sport clean.

Also, lets remember that just because they take the Olympic Style tests, it don't mean that they would always catch a guy who is cheating. The process is a constantly evolving science that cheaters are paying big money to find ways around. When Shane and Floyd gave blood to USADA for their fight, they both agreed to have the samples stored for later testing for up to 8 years from now as the testing gets better. The point is that the OSTs are the most comprehensive form of testing in sports today and it's a show of good faith for fighters to fully comply with their standards, above and beyond the VERY lax standards of state athletic commissions.

Believe me, I get it, I really do. Manny Pacquiao is the media darling right now. He's not black, but he might as well be the Barrack Obama of boxing. The guy gets hardly no REAL criticism from the mainstream press, while they take every chance they can to try and knock Floyd down a peg. They rarely talk about all the weight draining of opponents, the catch-weight title fights, conflicting statements, shady political friends, or marital infidelity when speaking of Pacquiao. Yet, it's open season on anybody named Mayweather for the press to basically lie and write hit-job articles. The blood testing is the only issue Manny has caught any REAL flack on, and when it gets presented to his rabid-nuthuggers they say "Floyd is scared". It's like trying to explain Shakespeare to 3 year olds.

rockdawg21
05-25-2010, 01:20 AM
"Huwag lang sa day ng fight"

The Filipino site interprets that as "never on the day of the fight", and Bloody Elbow translates it as "just not on the day of the fight".
"Huwag" - "Let it not be"
"lang" - "just"
"sa" - "the"
"day" - guess, lol
"ng" - of the
"fight" - guess again!

The interpretation is - "Just let it not be on the day of the fight."

If I were to say "Huwag ngayon gabi", that would be, "Let it not be tonight". However, if I were to say "Huwag lang ngayon gabi", that would be "Just let it not be tonight.

The only thing is "let it not be" is basically an assumed statement, thus the translation is usually truncated to "let", thus, "Just not on the day of the fight."

I asked my wife to translate the statement and she said it means "Never on the day of the fight." I asked her about my statement "Just not on the day of the fight" and "Just let it not be on the day of the fight." She said both are correct.

There will always be different interpretations amongst translations. Basically, he's just saying he won't take a blood test on fight day.

IMO, I don't think he said this. Until Pac says this on video, it's just more press BS IMO. I'm not going to believe anything until they sign the papers. :)

J.B.
05-25-2010, 02:39 AM
The dates of the tests in the Mayweather/Mosley fight were revealed last week, and likely Arum and Manny are going to use those to try and set a timetable, after the fact of course.

The point is that Pacquiao is misunderstanding the concept of the word "random". They may have drawn the last pre-fight blood test 18 days before the Mayweather/Mosley fight, but it doesn't change the fact that neither Floyd, nor Shane, knew when they were going to be tested.

I think it's likely that some sort of compromise will be reached, but Pacquiao and Arum already screwed the pooch back in December.

Then there is always the conspiracy theorists idea that both sides concocted this whole thing as way to push the fight back later in the year. However to believe that may require one to believe that both sides had the power to see into the future to read each others minds, and also to predict earthquakes. :laugh:

J.B.
05-26-2010, 05:11 PM
I will take it upon myself to address rumors circulating today before somebody calls me out on it.

SUPPOSEDLY, Floyd is lobbying for a bigger cut of the revenue and Manny's side has basically said that unless the fight is a 50/50 split they will not even negotiate.

Now, that is coming from Manny's side (the same people who said they didn't want to negotiate in the press this time)

If it's true, it's not really surprising. Most people figured that after the difference in buy-rates between Floyd and Manny's last fights, Maweather would go after the lions share of the purse. Also, I can see the argument from Mayweather's side. He is without a doubt the top draw in the sport, and like many others who have come before him, he has the right to use that to his advantage.

However, while Floyd may win the moral victory if the hangup turned out to be Pacquiao's non compliance with random blood testing, he won't be afforded the same high ground from the fans if the fight falls apart over going after more than 50%. Mayweather could have sold double the buys in the Mosley fight and it still wouldn't matter, fans will blame him if he lets the fight fall apart over the splitting of the purse.

I see it from both sides, but ultimately I think making the fight happen should be more crucial to Floyd than a 5 or 10% difference in the split at this point. They missed the boat on making this happen once already, they can't let this slip away again, and that goes for both Floyd and Manny.

rockdawg21
06-05-2010, 03:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ndm0p0R3Y&feature=player_embedded

Go to 1:00 in the video. Mayweather says:
Uh, well, you know at this particular point in time Floyd Mayweather is taking, uh, probably a year off, a couple of years off from the sport of boxing. I don't really know, you know, what the future holds for Floyd Mayweather at this particular time, but you know, I'll probably take a couple of years off.

This statement has fueled reaction from writers in the Philippines that he's trying to duck Pac again.

http://philboxing.com/news/story-39880.html
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/06/05/10/floyd-dodging-manny-mayweather-eyes-2-yr-break

I'm not buying it, Floyd talks a LOT as we all know. The next day, he will say something totally different. Just thought I'd throw it out there. At this time, the U.S. press hasn't caught wind of it, but these articles have developed within the past 24 hours.

J.B.
06-05-2010, 08:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ndm0p0R3Y&feature=player_embedded

Go to 1:00 in the video. Mayweather says:


This statement has fueled reaction from writers in the Philippines that he's trying to duck Pac again.

http://philboxing.com/news/story-39880.html
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/06/05/10/floyd-dodging-manny-mayweather-eyes-2-yr-break

I'm not buying it, Floyd talks a LOT as we all know. The next day, he will say something totally different. Just thought I'd throw it out there. At this time, the U.S. press hasn't caught wind of it, but these articles have developed within the past 24 hours.

Did you see the smile on his face? He was obviously trying to dodge the question because both sides have agreed to keep any negotiations out of the press. When the fight is signed, they will go public with discussions and banter, but not at this time. Also, in my opinion, he is just doing what he has always done and is driving home the fact that he doesn't need Manny, or any fighter, to solidify what he has accomplished.

Ducking Pac "again" would insinuate that he ducked him in the past, and that is just nonsense. Ronnie Nathanielsz is a habitual Pacquiao nut-hugger and he couldn't wait to write a headline saying Floyd was leaving Boxing. Floyd is not stupid, and he knows if he really does walk away from the sport right now he won't be able to ever erase that from his legacy. The first layoff was expected, and we knew he wanted to take time to heal, but leaving the sport while in the midst of negotiations for the biggest fight of our era would be a move that would tarnish his entire legacy.

Those Fillipino boxing sites and writers like Michael Marley and Ronnie Nathanielsz are trash.

rockdawg21
06-05-2010, 09:11 PM
Yeah, just posted it mostly to show the idiocy of the Filipino writers. The whole thing has been dumb for a long time. They'll make the fight this time.

J.B.
06-06-2010, 11:44 PM
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=28353
By Mark Vester

Top Rank CEO Bob Arum says Manny Pacquiao is ready to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr next. Pacquiao has agreed to Mayweather terms [that were made earlier this year], including random Olympic-style drug testing until 14-days before a scheduled fight date, a 50-50 split on the money, and the fight could take place in Las Vegas.

Arum is trying to make a fight for November. He says the ball is now in Mayweather's court. They are waiting to see what decision Mayweather makes.

"The ball's in Mayweather's court and if Mayweather doesn't fight him, that's Mayweather's decision," Arum said. "I'm telling you now, I've had long conversations with him, Manny Pacquiao's first goal is to get Mayweather in the ring and this whole drug-testing nonsense - I think it was nonsense, but Manny has now agreed."

"I live there and I've no problem with the fight being in Vegas, and I know Manny has no problem either. There are things that I know that you don't about why Las Vegas will go to the last mile to get that fight and I would think that Las Vegas has to be the frontrunner."

Well, that didn't last long....:laugh:

I was really proud of these guys for the most part too...

They were doing so good at keeping their mouths shut. :rolleyes:

Cat's out of the bag now. In my personal opinion, Floyd wanted Manny to budge and comply with full random testing or give up a 60/40 split (or both) and Manny and Arum are playing hardball. So then Floyd probably threw that verbal jab out to the press about another layoff to let Arum and Manny think he's not sweating it. :laugh:

So Arum is calling Floyd's bluff essentially, but maybe Floyd gets the impression that Arum and Manny seem desperate in the negotiations and he can string them along to get them to meet him even further on his terms? Not sure at this point, but one thing I will definitely agree on Arum with is that the ball is definitely in Floyd's court now (even if Arum and Manny are trying to play by the old rules in a new game)

J.B.
06-07-2010, 01:35 AM
Roger Mayweather is going to be on The Boxing Truth radio show tonight, and he is supposed to address Floyd's comments about another layoff.

http://theboxingtruth.com

I'm listening now and he hasn't come on yet, they are still reviewing the week in fights.

J.B.
06-07-2010, 03:09 AM
Roger was hilarious as always, and he basically said that it's ridiculous and Floyd is not going to take more time off. Roger seems convinced that the fight is going to happen no matter what because there is a 100 million dollars on the table.

When directly asked to address Floyd's recent comments, he responded by saying that he doesn't care what Floyd said or what anybody thinks, because Floyd isn't taking any time off.

Then he went off on a tangent about Sugar Ray Robinson and A-Side Meth. Classic stuff. :laugh:

J.B.
06-30-2010, 09:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsm3kDpF8E&feature=player_embedded

As usual we'll have to wait to hear it from the horse's mouth, but this is positive news.

rockdawg21
07-01-2010, 12:02 PM
That guy sounds more optimistic than Arum:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/mma/boxing/06/30/mayweather.pacquiao/index.html?xid=si_topstories

Pacquiao-Mayweather agree to terms on fight

Representatives for Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather have agreed to terms on a megafight, Top Rank promoter Bob Arum told SI.com on Wednesday. The deal still needs to be approved by Mayweather.

Arum did not disclose terms of the deal, which is expected to be a 50-50 split and include some form of drug testing. The fight is scheduled for Nov. 13 at a location to be determined. Las Vegas and Dallas are considered the favorites to land the fight.

Arum told SI.com that Mayweather has until mid-July to make a decision.

"This really depends, as I see it, on whether Mayweather wants to fight [Pacquiao]" Arum said. "By mid-July, he's either in or out. We're not going to wait forever. We're going to have a fight on Nov. 13 and we would love it to be Mayweather."

Arum said that if Mayweather passed on the fight, they could still make a deal under the negotiated terms next year.

"Nobody is under any obligation to fight this year," Arum said. "He may need more time. When he is ready, we are prepared to do the fight."

Possible alternative opponents for Pacquiao are Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/mma/boxing/06/30/mayweather.pacquiao/index.html?xid=si_topstories#ixzz0sQnsOVL2

Arum talks too quickly sometimes. Until, like you said, we hear it from the horse's mouth, I'm not optimistic about it. Hopefully we'll hear something in the next 2 weeks!

J.B.
07-01-2010, 12:51 PM
That guy sounds more optimistic than Arum:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/mma/boxing/06/30/mayweather.pacquiao/index.html?xid=si_topstories



Arum talks too quickly sometimes. Until, like you said, we hear it from the horse's mouth, I'm not optimistic about it. Hopefully we'll hear something in the next 2 weeks!

Elie Seckhbach is actually a pretty good reporter. He's been covering fighting and the NBA for years.

I read what Arum said yesterday and I just ignored it. Arum did the same thing in December. It was pretty clear before they went into these negotiations that the parties directly involved, including the fighters, agreed they would not comment on anything until negotiations were complete. The only people who have managed to do that through all of this have been Floyd and Robert Schaefer.

In my gut though, I think it's close to being announced. The World Cup ends in about two weeks, so that would be a good time to break the news.