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Play The Man
11-12-2009, 06:06 AM
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/navy_colorguard_110509w/

Sources: USNA subbed mids to look more diverse

By Philip Ewing - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Nov 8, 2009 10:20:54 EST

Naval Academy leaders removed two midshipmen from a color guard that performed at the World Series last week because they were white men, and replaced them with a non-white man and a white woman so the academy could present a more “diverse” profile, according to several sources, a move that has reportedly angered mids and alumni.

As it turned out, the color guard still ended up all white because the male replacement forgot parts of his uniform.

Two white, male members of the color guard learned Oct. 28 they were being replaced with a white woman, Midshipman 2nd Class Hannah Allaire, and a non-white man, Midshipman 2nd Class Zishan Hameed, on orders of the school’s administration, according to an internal e-mail message provided to Navy Times by an academy professor. With a national television audience, Naval Academy leadership worried the color guard it planned to send wasn’t diverse enough, the e-mail said.

However, after the color guard arrived in New York for the game Oct. 29, Hameed, whose family is from Pakistan, realized he had left his dress shoes and cover in Annapolis. Midshipman 1st Class Aaron Stroud regained his place and served as a rifleman for the presentation of the colors. Allaire carried the other rifle and the four original members marched with the flags.

Naval Academy spokesman Cmdr. Joe Carpenter responded to questions about the midshipmen replacements in a written statement Thursday after the color guard story was first reported on the blog “CDR Salamander.”

Carpenter quoted a statement from Naval Academy Commandant Capt. Matt Klunder, who said he wanted to respond to questions about why some of the members of the color guard weren’t able to march at the World Series.

Academy officials actually sent an eight-person color guard to the baseball game, Klunder said, but the full squad couldn’t perform after Hameed forgot part of his uniform, because color guards need an even number of members. So it wasn’t that the academy administration yanked members of the color guard because they were white men, it’s that Hameed’s “uniform inventory problem,” as Klunder called it, meant that only six mids could march, instead of eight.

But a Naval Academy press release on the morning of the game said six mids were presenting the colors at the World Series, and identified them all by name. Stroud and the other white male mid who had been cut went to the game, according to the e-mail obtained by Navy Times — fortunate, because Stroud was needed to take Hameed’s place — but they never expected to be able to march that night.

Carpenter said the initial press release included only six names because the public affairs office didn’t know who else would be joining the World Series color guard. When it learned the names of the other two, the public affairs staff decided it would be too late to put out an updated announcement, he said.

The administration’s decision upset many of the mids, according to the e-mail. But after Klunder heard complaints about the situation from alumni and family members, the brigade’s company commanders were ordered to tell their midshipmen they were forbidden from discussing the color guard story with people outside the Yard, according to a source familiar with the situation who was not authorized to discuss it.

The source said current midshipmen and alumni were frustrated that one of them was denied the chance to march at the World Series, despite having earned it, and that the administration was trying to squelch discussion of it.

Carpenter said he didn’t know who told the midshipmen not to talk about the situation.

The Naval Academy color guard, which is a voluntary extracurricular group, has 28 total members from all four classes.

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 12:28 PM
That's racist. Of course, if it were an "all black" color guard, they would all be praised for their bravery. Whites just don't get a fair shake in this country, but, at the same time, we don't give a **** and just go on about our lives instead of crying like a bunch of sissy girls about being treated "unfairly".

rearnakedchoke
11-12-2009, 04:11 PM
That's racist. Of course, if it were an "all black" color guard, they would all be praised for their bravery. Whites just don't get a fair shake in this country, but, at the same time, we don't give a **** and just go on about our lives instead of crying like a bunch of sissy girls about being treated "unfairly".

LOL .. sounds to me like you are crying like a sissy by saying white people aren't treated fairly ..

KENTUCKYREDBONE
11-12-2009, 04:40 PM
It's pathetic that even the Military is getting so PC! Why should anybody care about the Racial makeup of it? If somebody earned it their skin color shouldn't matter!

rearnakedchoke
11-12-2009, 06:27 PM
It's pathetic that even the Military is getting so PC! Why should anybody care about the Racial makeup of it? If somebody earned it their skin color shouldn't matter!

There are certain things that i agree with and certain things that i don't ... in this case, i agree that they should have had a more diverse gender makeup and racial make-up .. the US is a multicultural society and so is the military ... if the military was only white, than it would make sense that only white men were represented ..

now there are certain things that i disagree with .. it was a while ago, so i may have some info wrong, but after 9/11 there were a few firefighters that climbed the debris and hung an American flag ... they all happened to be white ... well, they felt that this moment was very symbolic (which it was) and wanted to make a monument or painting of it (can't remember) the black delegation (Chapelle tribute) wanted black people to be depicted in the monument .. i can't remember what happened, but that moment was historical and shouldn't have been tampered with ... that i agree with ...

J.B.
11-12-2009, 06:29 PM
There are certain things that i agree with and certain things that i don't ... in this case, i agree that they should have had a more diverse gender makeup and racial make-up .. the US is a multicultural society and so is the military ... if the military was only white, than it would make sense that only white men were represented ..

now there are certain things that i disagree with .. it was a while ago, so i may have some info wrong, but after 9/11 there were a few firefighters that climbed the debris and hung an American flag ... they all happened to be white ... well, they felt that this moment was very symbolic (which it was) and wanted to make a monument or painting of it (can't remember) the black delegation (Chapelle tribute) wanted black people to be depicted in the monument .. i can't remember what happened, but that moment was historical and shouldn't have been tampered with ... that i agree with ...

Is it okay to substitute quality for diversity?

rearnakedchoke
11-12-2009, 06:32 PM
Is it okay to substitute quality for diversity?

that's a tough one .. i even struggle with that ... i think you should have to meet the minimum requirements of the position and that those minimum requirements need to be realistic ... so if they are and only white males are able to pass, than it make sense ..

J.B.
11-12-2009, 06:42 PM
that's a tough one .. i even struggle with that ... i think you should have to meet the minimum requirements of the position and that those minimum requirements need to be realistic ... so if they are and only white males are able to pass, than it make sense ..

Well, that's exactly the point. There is no reason to think that the originally selected members were inadequate. Diversity is not something you should have to prove, your group is either diverse or it's not.

This whole story just stinks of PC bullcrap with an ironic twist. Their attempt to seem diverse only ended up backfiring now because THIS is the story people are talking about. People would not have cared in the first place, but now it's an issue. Also, it's even more hilarious because the black guy ends up forgetting his uniform and doesn't even get to perform anyway. That will only add more fuel to the fire of racist, yet hilarious, comments. So basically, doing this only resulted in utter failure and I hope they learned from their mistake.

BTW, there should be no inner struggle over that issue. Quality trumps diversity every time, no questions asked.

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 06:54 PM
LOL .. sounds to me like you are crying like a sissy by saying white people aren't treated fairly ..
Nope, I stated my peace and that's the end of it. If I wanted to be a "sissy" I'd go to the streets in a mob group, start looting stores in my own neighborhood, and demand legislation to be treated "fairly".

Instead of doing that, I spoke my peace on this forum, went to work, and that's it. But, you asked, so I also replied and gave further explanation. :)

Play The Man
11-12-2009, 06:57 PM
Well, that's exactly the point. There is no reason to think that the originally selected members were inadequate. Diversity is not something you should have to prove, your group is either diverse or it's not.

This whole story just stinks of PC bullcrap with an ironic twist. Their attempt to seem diverse only ended up backfiring now because THIS is the story people are talking about. People would not have cared in the first place, but now it's an issue. Also, it's even more hilarious because the black guy ends up forgetting his uniform and doesn't even get to perform anyway. That will only add more fuel to the fire of racist, yet hilarious, comments. So basically, doing this only resulted in utter failure and I hope they learned from their mistake.

BTW, there should be no inner struggle over that issue. Quality trumps diversity every time, no questions asked.

J.B., not that it matters but the replacement midshipman was Pakistani and not black. I suspect that some of the midshipmen probably helped the replacement "forget" his uniform by taking it.

Rearnakedchoke, I don't watch baseball and didn't watch the World Series, but what is the racial make-up of the starting line-ups of the teams in the Series? If certain groups are over-represented, say Latinos from Central America, and certain groups are under-represented, say whites, should MLB, in the interest of "diversity" advise the managers of the teams to change the starting line-up to give a proper "diversity" balance? If you think that is not a fair analogy because MLB and the Naval Academy are different institutions, should the Naval Academy sports teams have their starting line-ups determined by "diversity"? For example, if blacks make up 12-13% of the population should the Naval Academy sports teams limit the number of black athletes to 13% of the team's starting roster?

rearnakedchoke
11-12-2009, 07:01 PM
Well, that's exactly the point. There is no reason to think that the originally selected members were inadequate. Diversity is not something you should have to prove, your group is either diverse or it's not.

This whole story just stinks of PC bullcrap with an ironic twist. Their attempt to seem diverse only ended up backfiring now because THIS is the story people are talking about. People would not have cared in the first place, but now it's an issue. Also, it's even more hilarious because the black guy ends up forgetting his uniform and doesn't even get to perform anyway. That will only add more fuel to the fire of racist, yet hilarious, comments. So basically, doing this only resulted in utter failure and I hope they learned from their mistake.

BTW, there should be no inner struggle over that issue. Quality trumps diversity every time, no questions asked.

no, but i doubt the people who were picked were chosen based on the quality of work they do ... i could be wrong ... it's like the whole thing of "what do you call a doctor who finishes at the bottom of his class? a doctor" ... so if there are brown people (i am sure it was a brown dude who forgot his uniform) or black people or women in this part of the military, why is it that only white men were chosen? sure it may have been, a you, you and you go thing .. i don't think that it was done with malice, but i think their has to be more thought put into these things ..

J.B.
11-12-2009, 07:03 PM
J.B., not that it matters but the replacement midshipman was Pakistani and not black. I suspect that some of the midshipmen probably helped the replacement "forget" his uniform by taking it.

See, I just I assumed he was black because he forgot his work uniform :rolleyes:


:laugh:

Play The Man
11-12-2009, 07:16 PM
no, but i doubt the people who were picked were chosen based on the quality of work they do ... i could be wrong ... it's like the whole thing of "what do you call a doctor who finishes at the bottom of his class? a doctor" ... so if there are brown people (i am sure it was a brown dude who forgot his uniform) or black people or women in this part of the military, why is it that only white men were chosen? sure it may have been, a you, you and you go thing .. i don't think that it was done with malice, but i think their has to be more thought put into these things ..

I disagree, I am sure the original picks were based on merit. "Why is it that only white men were chosen? Because the top 8 out of 28 were white males. If the top 8 out of 28 were females then they deserved to be awarded the honor of presenting at the World Series.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 07:26 PM
no, but i doubt the people who were picked were chosen based on the quality of work they do ... i could be wrong ... it's like the whole thing of "what do you call a doctor who finishes at the bottom of his class? a doctor" ... so if there are brown people (i am sure it was a brown dude who forgot his uniform) or black people or women in this part of the military, why is it that only white men were chosen? sure it may have been, a you, you and you go thing .. i don't think that it was done with malice, but i think their has to be more thought put into these things ..


Why do you doubt that? Is it not logical to assume that the best people would get the job based on performance?

Also, why should it matter? Why should they have to sit there and worry about if there is a black, muslim, woman, or whatever type of person there? If this truly is supposed to be about treating everybody equally, it should not matter one bit.

rearnakedchoke
11-12-2009, 07:52 PM
Why do you doubt that? Is it not logical to assume that the best people would get the job based on performance?

Also, why should it matter? Why should they have to sit there and worry about if there is a black, muslim, woman, or whatever type of person there? If this truly is supposed to be about treating everybody equally, it should not matter one bit.

dude, because if i agreed with you, there would be no discussion on this forum .. LOL ...

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 08:18 PM
Why do you doubt that? Is it not logical to assume that the best people would get the job based on performance?

Also, why should it matter? Why should they have to sit there and worry about if there is a black, muslim, woman, or whatever type of person there? If this truly is supposed to be about treating everybody equally, it should not matter one bit.
LOL, and the irony of it all is blacks are the ones who noticed they are missing from the group. No complaints from Hispanics, Arabs, Asians, etc. involved when these types of things happen.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 08:19 PM
dude, because if i agreed with you, there would be no discussion on this forum .. LOL ...

:laugh: