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View Full Version : Fighter's career over Docs tell hurt battler after bloody bout


MattHughesRocks
02-10-2009, 04:42 AM
Dean Lewis was having trouble breathing Friday night because of the copious amounts of blood he had breathed into his lungs.

Yesterday afternoon, however, the 18-year-old mixed martial artist from Fort McMurray, Alta., told his coach, while lying in a Health Sciences Centre hospital bed, that he wanted to resume training as soon as possible.

That will not be happening, as doctors informed Lewis that he will never fight again. Certainly not after the scary incident that happened Friday night at the Winnipeg Convention Centre.

Shortly after his fight against Winnipeg's Eric Perez on the inaugural Canadian Fighting Championship card, Lewis stumbled to his corner and collapsed. He couldn't breathe because of the blood in his lungs, so the doctors and paramedics, who are required to be at every fight card, put a breathing tube down his throat.

One of his coaches, Winnipeg MMA fighter Rodrigo Munduruca, said Lewis then had several seizures before being transported to hospital via ambulance.

The diagnosis, Munduruca said, was swelling of the brain and a severe concussion. Surgery, however, was not required.

Lewis was still under observation last night at HSC, but Dr. Ed Pilat, the Manitoba Boxing Commission's physician who worked on him in the ring, said the fighter should be released in a few days, "if not a little longer."

"That kid's tough as s---," Munduruca said.

"He's already walking, talking and was asking me when he could start training. I almost slapped him," Pilat said. "The doctors are surprised because (the swelling) is subsiding lots."

Worst he's seen

Pilat suggested the quick medical response might have saved Lewis' life.

Dr. Henry Janzen, the MBC chairman, called it the worst injury he's seen in his 15 years with the organization. Lewis and Perez engaged in one of Winnipeg's bloodiest battles in recent memory.

Pilat inspected the badly bloodied Lewis after the second of three five-minute rounds but the lightweight was deemed healthy enough to continue. Lewis' trainer, Edmonton's Kyle Cardinal, told Munduruca that his fighter was coherent enough at that point to keep going.

Munduruca wasn't ringside because he was preparing to fight later on in the card, but said he felt the bout should have been stopped after Round 2.

"When there's that much blood, stop it," he said. "There was so much blood."

Lewis gave as good as he got in the third round, even though at one point blood was pouring out of his nose. He collapsed only a few seconds after the final bell and doesn't remember much, according to Munduruca.

Dr. Janzen said everyone acting under his authority, including referee Adam Cheadle, did everything by the book.

"The conclusion, from the information that I've got, is his injury came because of the combination of receiving many hits. It wasn't one knockout blow," Janzen said.

Perez won by unanimous decision, meaning Lewis will end his five-month pro career with a 1-2 record.

"He will never be able to fight again -- ever," said Munduruca.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/winnipeg/2009/02/08/8307306-sun.html

Bonnie
02-10-2009, 05:03 AM
I'm just glad he will be okay. I hope there are no long term repercussions from this. He's only 18--so young. I hope he listens to them and doesn't do anything foolish. At that age, you don't feel your mortality and that could lead him to make some unwise decision(s).

That's the only thing that really gives me some concern in this sport and others where you are getting hit in the head on a regular basis and sometimes getting knocked out. You have to wonder what the long-term effects might be. I mean look at Muhammed Ali. :sad:

atomdanger
02-10-2009, 05:36 AM
18 is way too young to be fighting as a pro IMO.

Your body isn't even done developing yet.

Moose
02-10-2009, 05:36 AM
It's never the flash KOs and the big knockouts that cause brain swelling and other life threatening injuries, it's always the culmination of many shots to the head. A fighter is just about always going to tell you he can keep going, but it's your responsibility as his corner to know what's best for him at all times.

Boxing should have shown all of this by now.

atomdanger
02-10-2009, 05:42 AM
It's never the flash KOs and the big knockouts that cause brain swelling and other life threatening injuries, it's always the culmination of many shots to the head. A fighter is just about always going to tell you he can keep going, but it's your responsibility as his corner to know what's best for him at all times.

Boxing should have shown all of this by now.


Well said

Spiritwalker
02-10-2009, 11:27 PM
It's never the flash KOs and the big knockouts that cause brain swelling and other life threatening injuries, it's always the culmination of many shots to the head. A fighter is just about always going to tell you he can keep going, but it's your responsibility as his corner to know what's best for him at all times.

Boxing should have shown all of this by now.


EXACTLY!

ufcfan2
02-11-2009, 12:50 AM
18 is way too young to be fighting as a pro IMO.

Your body isn't even done developing yet.
Agreed. I thinks okay to do non-contact stuff that young it still hones ur skills and gives u a taste of comptetition..To start beating eachother senceless that young I'm not sure of,he's of age so its his choice. I just hope he listens to his doctors and not do anymore full contact. He's too young to throw a normal life away..

Neezar
02-11-2009, 07:04 PM
It's never the flash KOs and the big knockouts that cause brain swelling and other life threatening injuries, it's always the culmination of many shots to the head. A fighter is just about always going to tell you he can keep going, but it's your responsibility as his corner to know what's best for him at all times.

Boxing should have shown all of this by now.


What do you propose that the corner use as a basis to decide when there has been too many shots?

atomdanger
02-11-2009, 09:08 PM
What do you propose that the corner use as a basis to decide when there has been too many shots?



Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?

atomdanger
02-11-2009, 09:13 PM
Agreed. I thinks okay to do non-contact stuff that young it still hones ur skills and gives u a taste of comptetition..To start beating eachother senceless that young I'm not sure of,he's of age so its his choice. I just hope he listens to his doctors and not do anymore full contact. He's too young to throw a normal life away..

I think the legal age should be 21 for professional fighters.

Your frontal lobe (self control, judgment) is done developing at what? 21 years old? 22?

Spiritwalker
02-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?


No.. they said.. "How do you feel BJ??"
Baby Jay said.."Is it time to get up already ma??"

Neezar
02-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?


:unsure-1: It could have been that very last blow that initiated the damage. Who's to ever know?


Those can be very good indicators but not always diagnostic.

Preach
02-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
:unsure-1:
Matt-Hughes forums
Hump day Wednesday
Barack Hussein Obama

yes
now do I get to continue:w00t:

Moose
02-11-2009, 09:56 PM
What do you propose that the corner use as a basis to decide when there has been too many shots?

If I'm his trainer or coach, I'd know his tendencies well enough to judge for myself. Slurring speech? Probably a concussion. Eating a lot of uncontested shots to the head? Probably throwing in the towel. Coughing up blood? Probably internal injuries or too much blood draining down his throat. If the fights a bloodbath as this one supposedly was, it would be easy to tell.

In my corner, it would be my responsibility not to get emotional, or try to cling to a sliver of victory. Fighters fight, cornermen save.

Chuck
02-11-2009, 10:13 PM
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?

I'm not sure the GCS or using A/Ox? would be an accurate indicator in an MMA fight. At least not for any long term damage...

Neezar
02-12-2009, 03:03 PM
If I'm his trainer or coach, I'd know his tendencies well enough to judge for myself. Slurring speech? Probably a concussion. Eating a lot of uncontested shots to the head? Probably throwing in the towel. Coughing up blood? Probably internal injuries or too much blood draining down his throat. If the fights a bloodbath as this one supposedly was, it would be easy to tell.

In my corner, it would be my responsibility not to get emotional, or try to cling to a sliver of victory. Fighters fight, cornermen save.

Slurred speech = concussion?

Eating uncontested shots to the head? That happens ALL the time. So do you think that there are LOTS of fights going on that should have been stopped? For example, do you think Horn vs Chuck 2 should have been stopped? What about Pulver vs Faber 1?

Coughing up blood? How could you tell if they were coughing it up from the lung or blowing it out of their nose or mouth with the cough? And did that happen in this fight? When is the last time that you heard of a fighter suffering damage from blood in his lungs? (Anybody can answer this because I am curious if it happens often at all.)

Do you think Stevenson vs Penn should have been stopped due to blood volume? What about the one with Babalu? Or Shrek?

(This topic interests me in case you couldn't tell. lol)


btw, what, if any, signs did the cornermen have that would have led them to believe that the fight needed to be stopped? Anybody have a link to the fight?

Moose
02-12-2009, 05:06 PM
Slurred speech = concussion?

Eating uncontested shots to the head? That happens ALL the time. So do you think that there are LOTS of fights going on that should have been stopped? For example, do you think Horn vs Chuck 2 should have been stopped? What about Pulver vs Faber 1?

Coughing up blood? How could you tell if they were coughing it up from the lung or blowing it out of their nose or mouth with the cough? And did that happen in this fight? When is the last time that you heard of a fighter suffering damage from blood in his lungs? (Anybody can answer this because I am curious if it happens often at all.)

Do you think Stevenson vs Penn should have been stopped due to blood volume? What about the one with Babalu? Or Shrek?

(This topic interests me in case you couldn't tell. lol)


btw, what, if any, signs did the cornermen have that would have led them to believe that the fight needed to be stopped? Anybody have a link to the fight?

You had a long post, so I'll try to answer as many questions as I possibly can, if I miss any, just ask again. Slurred speech, general fogginess, and being "out of it" are all signs of concussion. Usually, in a fight, a concussion would result from being KO'd. HOWEVER, it's possible that if you are more prone to them, or have received more than a couple in a short amount of time (as was my case playing hockey) a bump to the chin, or to the jaw can do it. Concussions are dangerous because PCS is a real bitch, and could have some long term effects.

As far as blood goes, it can be a tough one. Generally, you want it out of your nasal passages, and you really don't want it running down the back of your throat, as that can be deadly. Blood in itself isn't dangerous or bad, cuts happen, but cuts perpendicular to the eye, or if blood is running into the eyes, is where the danger lies. In the Stevenson fight, well, he got cut on the hairline, and that being a vascular area, he bled like a stuck piggy. That being said, it didn't really get into his eyes until the fight went to the ground and BJ took his back.

I've personally only ever seen one or two guys cough up blood, one was from bronchitis, and the other from internal injuries. It was obvious to me that internal damage had been done, blood was thick with mucus and half coagulated. From the picture I saw of the fight, in the link provided, the fighter's nose looks broken, and obviously there's going to be a lot of blood running down the back of his throat, especially if the fight went to the ground for any length of time. The referee inspected him, deemed him good to go, and so the fight continued.

As far as uncontested shots go, it can be pretty telling. Take a guy like Matt Hughes, doesn't get knocked out much, and even on the ground on his back his spinning around, trying to get back into the butterfly guard. That's where you hear a ref mentioning a fighter "staying busy" or trying to be an elusive target. On the flipside, in Forrest's last fight, he was EATING several shots from Evans. Those were uncontested, dangerous shots to take. He was out, or at least getting there fast. Limbs were flopping, head was getting knocked around. Stop. The. Fight.

A lot of the fighter/cornerman relationship is trust. I'd rather have a fighter never speak to me again and hate my guts than have to spoon feed a friend at age 50.

Neezar
02-12-2009, 05:43 PM
Was their any mention of this guy having slurred speech in between rounds?





I kinda meant coughing up blood in a fight and it not be stopped. And I have sucked one drop of water or coke down 'the wrong pipe' before and almost choked to death with a coughing fit. And Steve Erkel could whoop my ass during one of these. I wonder if the body would trigger this type of coughing if blood were to go down the wrong pipe?


And I understand what you meant by uncontested shots to the head. But I have seen a few times that I wondered how the guy ever lived and their was apparently no (reported) damage.

I agree that cornmen have obligations of safety but I also believe that the signs are not as readily seen as most people believe until it is too late.

Moose
02-12-2009, 05:53 PM
I agree that cornmen have obligations of safety but I also believe that the signs are not as readily seen as most people believe until it is too late.

That's why training, experience, and straight thinking are paramount.

Neezar
02-12-2009, 05:59 PM
That's why training, experience, and straight thinking are paramount.

I guess I don't get why you are saying this. Are the cornermen being used not trained? Was their signs here that should have been seen and the fight stopped? Do you know of any cases where there were clear signs that were ignored?



(Maybe I should read the article?:ninja: )

Moose
02-12-2009, 06:25 PM
I guess I don't get why you are saying this. Are the cornermen being used not trained? Was their signs here that should have been seen and the fight stopped? Do you know of any cases where there were clear signs that were ignored?



(Maybe I should read the article?:ninja: )

Yes you should. Check out that picture too. Dude's face was hanging off.