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shon8121
11-11-2009, 12:30 AM
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/#

Are you a "GOOD" person? Try the ultimate test...

__________________________________________

So uh, has anyone here seen this website? It's a Christian Evangelism website hosted by Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort.

If you can't find the link for the ultimate test, it's in a blue box on the right of the screen, about midway down the screen.

I can save you guys a lot of trouble by telling you, there's no commandment you haven't broken according to these guys. Yeah. Even Murder is something we're somehow guilty of.
Let me know if you take the test, and what your thoughts are on it.

Neezar
11-11-2009, 02:00 AM
This should be in the Woodshed. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

:laugh:

Vizion
11-11-2009, 02:06 AM
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/#

Are you a "GOOD" person? Try the ultimate test...

__________________________________________

So uh, has anyone here seen this website? It's a Christian Evangelism website hosted by Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort.

If you can't find the link for the ultimate test, it's in a blue box on the right of the screen, about midway down the screen.

I can save you guys a lot of trouble by telling you, there's no commandment you haven't broken according to these guys. Yeah. Even Murder is something we're somehow guilty of.
Let me know if you take the test, and what your thoughts are on it.

What's your point? :angry: Why do you come here to stir up problems? This thread is clearly a swipe at something you don't like (i.e. Christianity).

Vizion
11-11-2009, 02:14 AM
It has nothing to do with Christianity.

Actually, it has EVERYTHING to do with Christianity. Way of the Master is a Christian org. who have done a tremendous amount of broadcasting and Christian witnessing. They have a great ministry.

NateR
11-11-2009, 02:33 AM
Simple answer: No, I'm not a good person.

Anyone who answers yes is a liar.

NateR
11-11-2009, 02:41 AM
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/#

Are you a "GOOD" person? Try the ultimate test...

__________________________________________

So uh, has anyone here seen this website? It's a Christian Evangelism website hosted by Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort.

If you can't find the link for the ultimate test, it's in a blue box on the right of the screen, about midway down the screen.

I can save you guys a lot of trouble by telling you, there's no commandment you haven't broken according to these guys. Yeah. Even Murder is something we're somehow guilty of.
Let me know if you take the test, and what your thoughts are on it.

That website has it right, we are all sinful and unworthy of GOD's grace.

Just like that question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" Well, it's a misleading question because "good people" don't exist.

shon8121
11-11-2009, 02:45 AM
This should be in the Woodshed. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

:laugh:

Huh? It's about the Ten Commandments.


What's your point? Why do you come here to stir up problems? This thread is clearly a swipe at something you don't like (i.e. Christianity).


How on Earth am I stirring up problems?! Calm down. Jeez.
But thanks for correcting Neezar.
The point is, do you agree with the Murder thing? If I hate someone in my heart, does that really count as disobeying the "Thou Shalt not Murder" commandment?



Simple answer: No, I'm not a good person.

Anyone who answers yes is a liar.


Well... even if the doctrine says that everyone sins... does that really mean no one is a good person?
I think I have a legitimate question: If you behave morally within the Commandments and within the teachings of Jesus, can you not be called a "good" person? Or does it go deeper than that? Does it more depend on how we feel or how we think?

NateR
11-11-2009, 03:12 AM
The point is, do you agree with the Murder thing? If I hate someone in my heart, does that really count as disobeying the "Thou Shalt not Murder" commandment?

It means that you have the seeds of murder growing in your heart, so you can never look upon someone who is in prison for murder and consider yourself a better person than them.

Well... even if the doctrine says that everyone sins... does that really mean no one is a good person?
I think I have a legitimate question: If you behave morally within the Commandments and within the teachings of Jesus, can you not be called a "good" person? Or does it go deeper than that? Does it more depend on how we feel or how we think?

Well, IF you could keep the standard for righteousness that Jesus set, then yes, you would be a good person. However, do you really believe that is possible? Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted after her? (in other words, did you try to visualize her naked or fantasize about having sex with her?) If you have EVER done that in your lifetime, then you are guilty of sexual immorality.

Have you ever lied? For any reason? Even "little white lies" that don't cause anyone harm are still lies.

Have you ever disobeyed your parents? Taken something that didn't belong to you? Held a grudge against someone who did you harm?

If you have done any of those things, even once in your life, then you have fallen short of GOD's standard and there is nothing you can do to erase those mistakes from your past. Nothing. Which is why you need Jesus, because He will cover your sins with His righteousness and it will be like you had never sinned.

So you tell me, is it possible to keep the standard that Jesus set?

shon8121
11-11-2009, 03:54 AM
It means that you have the seeds of murder growing in your heart, so you can never look upon someone who is in prison for murder and consider yourself a better person than them.



Well, IF you could keep the standard for righteousness that Jesus set, then yes, you would be a good person. However, do you really believe that is possible? Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted after her? (in other words, did you try to visualize her naked or fantasize about having sex with her?) If you have EVER done that in your lifetime, then you are guilty of sexual immorality.

Have you ever lied? For any reason? Even "little white lies" that don't cause anyone harm are still lies.

Have you ever disobeyed your parents? Taken something that didn't belong to you? Held a grudge against someone who did you harm?

If you have done any of those things, even once in your life, then you have fallen short of GOD's standard and there is nothing you can do to erase those mistakes from your past. Nothing. Which is why you need Jesus, because He will cover your sins with His righteousness and it will be like you had never sinned.

So you tell me, is it possible to keep the standard that Jesus set?


Well the question was more about behavior versus thoughts. When it comes to thoughts... oh boy am I in trouble. There has been lust all over the place. Haha.
Do I think it's possible to keep the standard that Jesus met? Sure, if we have a child raised by robots with all of the things he/she could ever want made available to them! Haha.
Just kidding. It seems to be pretty much impossible.

But come on. Can I truly not look at a Murderer in prison and (not having committed the crime) consider myself a better person than they are? :cry:

Chris F
11-11-2009, 03:53 PM
Well the question was more about behavior versus thoughts. When it comes to thoughts... oh boy am I in trouble. There has been lust all over the place. Haha.
Do I think it's possible to keep the standard that Jesus met? Sure, if we have a child raised by robots with all of the things he/she could ever want made available to them! Haha.
Just kidding. It seems to be pretty much impossible.

But come on. Can I truly not look at a Murderer in prison and (not having committed the crime) consider myself a better person than they are? :cry:

That is because you lack basic elementary understanding of our faith. God does not deal with us on actions alone, but your thought and what is in your heart as well. So if you hate someone you are a murderer according to God and are no better. This is why we need Jesus as our savior because in and of ourself we are not able to be good enough for anything let alone salvation.

Tyburn
11-11-2009, 05:32 PM
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/#

Are you a "GOOD" person? Try the ultimate test...

__________________________________________

So uh, has anyone here seen this website? It's a Christian Evangelism website hosted by Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort.

If you can't find the link for the ultimate test, it's in a blue box on the right of the screen, about midway down the screen.

I can save you guys a lot of trouble by telling you, there's no commandment you haven't broken according to these guys. Yeah. Even Murder is something we're somehow guilty of.
Let me know if you take the test, and what your thoughts are on it.

It doesnt matter if you are a Good person, GOD demands Perfection...even with a perfectly valid moral code, you couldnt reach perfection.

So its irrelevent really. Good is not what GOD requires.

VCURamFan
11-11-2009, 05:38 PM
It means that you have the seeds of murder growing in your heart, so you can never look upon someone who is in prison for murder and consider yourself a better person than them.



Well, IF you could keep the standard for righteousness that Jesus set, then yes, you would be a good person. However, do you really believe that is possible? Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted after her? (in other words, did you try to visualize her naked or fantasize about having sex with her?) If you have EVER done that in your lifetime, then you are guilty of sexual immorality.

Have you ever lied? For any reason? Even "little white lies" that don't cause anyone harm are still lies.

Have you ever disobeyed your parents? Taken something that didn't belong to you? Held a grudge against someone who did you harm?

If you have done any of those things, even once in your life, then you have fallen short of GOD's standard and there is nothing you can do to erase those mistakes from your past. Nothing. Which is why you need Jesus, because He will cover your sins with His righteousness and it will be like you had never sinned.

So you tell me, is it possible to keep the standard that Jesus set?
+1,000,000

Tyburn
11-11-2009, 05:39 PM
But come on. Can I truly not look at a Murderer in prison and (not having committed the crime) consider myself a better person than they are? :cry:

Only by the Standards of the World.

The World has degrees of Sin. GOD does not. The world says your a good person if you only sin a little...GOD says your bad if you sin at all.

Do you follow? By HIS Standard...no, you cant be good. GOD says "Be Holy for I Am Holy"

Well...you are NOT Holy are you :huh::laugh: NOONE IS...thats the whole point...not only that, further to that, GOD KNOWS that and added a BIG loophole to the problem.

I dont need to be Holy...because Jesus is...All my imperfections were cast upon Him, allowing me to be transformed through His death, when my own death happens. Whats more, its a free gift, you dont have to do anything to earn it.

eric84
11-11-2009, 05:45 PM
I guess it depends on how you use the word "Good". We are fallen, and none of us are perfect, we all have atleast bad thoughts and all of us make mistakes. But in my view, if you try to follow Jesus and love God and your neighbor, then you're a good person. Your still nothing compared to God, but I would classify true christians as "good" people.

shon8121
11-12-2009, 01:46 AM
That is because you lack basic elementary understanding of our faith. God does not deal with us on actions alone, but your thought and what is in your heart as well. So if you hate someone you are a murderer according to God and are no better. This is why we need Jesus as our savior because in and of ourself we are not able to be good enough for anything let alone salvation.

I love the insults! Keep them coming please Chris! :)

But uh, of course I know your Doctrine. I'm well aware that thoughts keep you in jeopardy... like if you pretended to believe "just in case", that wouldn't matter because Yahweh would know the truth because he's Omniscient.

But I only relatively recently (a year ago maybe?) learned about this verse claiming that "hate" in your heart is as bad as murder to Yahweh.
Odd that this verse (on the websites test) came right after the whole "love for yourself or your family etc must be like hate in comparison for your love for Jesus/god.
It's just kinda confusing and thats why I ask for your opinions because there's no better way to learn more than from Christians themselves, right?


Tyburn - Thanks for your points. As a non-believer I would like to be considered a good moral person but it's tough in this camp because the standards were set by Jesus.


I guess it depends on how you use the word "Good". We are fallen, and none of us are perfect, we all have atleast bad thoughts and all of us make mistakes. But in my view, if you try to follow Jesus and love God and your neighbor, then you're a good person. Your still nothing compared to God, but I would classify true christians as "good" people.


In the same vein though, if "Christians" who are inheriently sinners like everyone else, are trying to follow Christ's teachings are good people (by human standards, not god's)... Can I not be considered a good person (by Christians) if I just so happen to follow the majority of Jesus' rules but don't believe in him?

J.B.
11-12-2009, 02:09 AM
In the same vein though, if "Christians" who are inheriently sinners like everyone else, are trying to follow Christ's teachings are good people (by human standards, not god's)... Can I not be considered a good person (by Christians) if I just so happen to follow the majority of Jesus' rules but don't believe in him?

If you are not a believer, and have no intent on becoming one, then why do you care?

If you are looking for a definitive answer that represents how all Christians are going to interpret that vague statement you are not going to find it.

shon8121
11-12-2009, 02:14 AM
If you are not a believer, and have no intent on becoming one, then why do you care?

If you are looking for a definitive answer that represents how all Christians are going to interpret that vague statement you are not going to find it.

Who doesn't care about social acceptance?
Emo kids maybe? Haha.

But in regards to your second point... ok sure. Just was wondering what peeps thought here, thats all.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 02:22 AM
Who doesn't care about social acceptance?
Emo kids maybe? Haha.

But in regards to your second point... ok sure. Just was wondering what peeps thought here, thats all.

But if you already think the belief system is flawed, why would you seek social acceptance from people who follow that way of life?

The point I was making was that it's impossible to have a definitive answer for your question based on what you said. God is not a democracy, and saying you follow the "majority" of his teachings is meaningless. Sure, you could still be a "good" guy, by worldly standards, but that won't save your soul. To Christians, that is the most important thing. So as long as you deny God, you are not going to get the best reception from most Christians. I think that is simple logic to understand.

shon8121
11-12-2009, 02:44 AM
But if you already think the belief system is flawed, why would you seek social acceptance from people who follow that way of life?

The point I was making was that it's impossible to have a definitive answer for your question based on what you said. God is not a democracy, and saying you follow the "majority" of his teachings is meaningless. Sure, you could still be a "good" guy, by worldly standards, but that won't save your soul. To Christians, that is the most important thing. So as long as you deny God, you are not going to get the best reception from most Christians. I think that is simple logic to understand.

Again, I merely seek a little more social acceptance. Haha. The majority of the population in America are Christian so... yeah. Kind of unavoidable.

Yeah, your point makes perfect sense... but my question was always directed at Christians themselves, not what their god might think of me. Of course, thats flawed thinking on my part because I didn't quite take into consideration that I would be getting their gods view on my morality. So yeah, I guess I messed that up. Haha.
I guess I could just continue on with the self proclaimed "good person" status... :wink:

J.B.
11-12-2009, 03:00 AM
Again, I merely seek a little more social acceptance. Haha. The majority of the population in America are Christian so... yeah. Kind of unavoidable.

Yeah, your point makes perfect sense... but my question was always directed at Christians themselves, not what their god might think of me. Of course, thats flawed thinking on my part because I didn't quite take into consideration that I would be getting their gods view on my morality. So yeah, I guess I messed that up. Haha.
I guess I could just continue on with the self proclaimed "good person" status... :wink:

I can understand seeking social acceptance, and yes most people here in America are Christian, but going back to my other point, without accepting God, there is always going to be that sticking point. You can't escape it. So, I guess the short answer is that if you are really seeking social acceptance amongst Christians, getting in touch with God would be a good way to start. Probably not the answer you want to hear, but it's the truth.

Also, just to connect this to another issue you have raised since you came here, it is for this exact reason that "separation of Church and State" is nothing more than myth. It don't matter what law gets passed, what founding father said what, or how much you try to change it. People will NOT check their morality at the door when they become politicians, and if they DO, they are not fit to be a leader in the first place.

shon8121
11-12-2009, 04:08 AM
I can understand seeking social acceptance, and yes most people here in America are Christian, but going back to my other point, without accepting God, there is always going to be that sticking point. You can't escape it. So, I guess the short answer is that if you are really seeking social acceptance amongst Christians, getting in touch with God would be a good way to start. Probably not the answer you want to hear, but it's the truth.

Also, just to connect this to another issue you have raised since you came here, it is for this exact reason that "separation of Church and State" is nothing more than myth. It don't matter what law gets passed, what founding father said what, or how much you try to change it. People will NOT check their morality at the door when they become politicians, and if they DO, they are not fit to be a leader in the first place.

Oh I know what the answer is. Haha. But getting in touch with "god" is like me asking a Christian to get in touch with "Allah"... or something like that. If I don't believe in the god, or think there is adequate evidence for it's existance... the idea of getting closer to that diety is kinda... uh... Yeah.

Look. It may be a "Myth" in regards to it being enforced... but there can be no question as to what the document says about Church and State. As I've said in the past, since the overwhelming majority is Christian, certain parts like the first amendment are kinda... ignored.

NateR
11-12-2009, 04:12 AM
but there can be no question as to what the document says about Church and State.

Exactly which document says what about Church and State?

shon8121
11-12-2009, 04:18 AM
Exactly which document says what about Church and State?

The First Amendment demands separation of Chruch and State.

NateR
11-12-2009, 04:23 AM
The First Amendment demands separation of Chruch and State.

Um, that's not what it says. In fact, the phrase "separation of Church and State" NEVER appears in any of our founding documents. It's a myth, based on an out-of-context quote from Thomas Jefferson in a private letter to the Danbury Baptists association, written in 1802.

Again, your comments just reveal your ignorance of history.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 04:37 AM
Oh I know what the answer is. Haha. But getting in touch with "god" is like me asking a Christian to get in touch with "Allah"... or something like that. If I don't believe in the god, or think there is adequate evidence for it's existance... the idea of getting closer to that diety is kinda... uh... Yeah.

Look. It may be a "Myth" in regards to it being enforced... but there can be no question as to what the document says about Church and State. As I've said in the past, since the overwhelming majority is Christian, certain parts like the first amendment are kinda... ignored.

That's exactly my point. If you truly don't believe, it shouldn't really matter very much to you about "social acceptance" from people who do.

This country has ALWAYS been an overwhelmingly Christian nation, that is a fact. Regardless of the fact that the government does not formerly endorse any one religion, the same values that you claim to agree with the "majority" of, are the values that helped build this nation, and the majority of the people behind those values were...you guessed it, Christian.

Crisco
11-12-2009, 05:20 AM
I hate the sin not the sinner.

mikthehick
11-12-2009, 06:13 AM
Cris, dude you are so right. Last weekend in church, our pastor said "He who casts the first stone", that's a Jesus quote.

No, I am not a good person. I am a conceived sinner. But because I accepted Jesus, I'm His blood bought daughter. This does not mean I can just sin any time I want and will be fine. Rather, being a Christian is difficult, and at most times, arduous. We have our good days and our bad days, but I only feel FULLY ALIVE during worship or intense talks with God alone.

I'm in a campus ministry in VA, and it's hard at times, to see so many people suffering. But we ALL see good and bad in our lives. No one person is ever the same--we all have stories to tell. God quilted us all together, and it is His dream to see us all in the Heaven He created.

Chris F
11-12-2009, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=shon8121;80148]I love the insults! Keep them coming please Chris! :)

But uh, of course I know your Doctrine. I'm well aware that thoughts keep you in jeopardy... like if you pretended to believe "just in case", that wouldn't matter because Yahweh would know the truth because he's Omniscient.

But I only relatively recently (a year ago maybe?) learned about this verse claiming that "hate" in your heart is as bad as murder to Yahweh.
Odd that this verse (on the websites test) came right after the whole "love for yourself or your family etc must be like hate in comparison for your love for Jesus/god.
It's just kinda confusing and thats why I ask for your opinions because there's no better way to learn more than from Christians themselves, right?

QUOTE]

If you want to ask question then do it in a non condescending way and stop acting like you are trying to set someone up. No one trust you because of your other rude post. You know you are bad when they think you are worse then me. Everyone on here would be happy to have a civil discourse with you. But the problem is you want to spew your propaganda not ask questions. The fact is no one who is an unbeliever will ever understand scripture because it was not written for them. Only through the leading of the Holy Spirit can one even begin to grasp the complexities of God. SO either ask questions or troll another website.

Chris F
11-12-2009, 04:59 PM
The First Amendment demands separation of Chruch and State.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In plain English Freedom of religion not freedom from religion. If that were true then Jefferson could have never used federal funds to evangelize the Indians, The capitol building could never have been used as a church. You must of had a football coach for American History.

Last time I checked the federal government was not trying to make a law to establish the Church of America nor make any laws )except the hate crimes bill) the infringes on our right to worship. In fact a states can and did up until 1849 establish state ran churhces. Look up as you say I ma not going to do the research for you. The founder did not want a repeat of England and this is why they put this amendment in their. Fisher Ammes was the primary author of this amendment and he was very active in his church. Also you can read the transcripts to the debates for this amendment and see that not a single persona ever thought of it the way many ignorant people like the ACLU do today.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 05:25 PM
You must of had a football coach for American History.


I'm throwing a challenge flag...

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/17/175517.jpg

unnecessary roughness , on the offense, 15 yard penalty, repeat first down...

Chris F
11-12-2009, 06:06 PM
I'm throwing a challenge flag...

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/17/175517.jpg

unnecessary roughness , on the offense, 15 yard penalty, repeat first down...

:laugh: Thats funny. wouldn't be a penatly flag for unnecessary roughness?

CAVEMAN
11-12-2009, 07:15 PM
Shon8121, there is not a person on this earth who can keep the 10 commandments. We all fall short of the mark. Jesus, GOD incarnate, Emmanuel(GOD with us), came to live and die as one of us. He at no time during his life sinned! He lived a life none of us could live, PERFECT OBEDIENCE! Yet HE took the punishment for your sin, my sin, and the sins of the world, past present, and future. The Bible states that "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin and that the wages of sin is death. Because of OUR DISOBEDIENCE, myself, you, and everyone else in the world are guilty before a HOLY & RIGHTEOUS GOD and deserve the punishment that Jesus took for us! That is why Jesus is called The LAMB OF GOD that taketh away the SINS of the World! The debt is paid in full. The GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. Now, there are only 2 things a person can do and that is:

(A) Accept the Free Gift offered by GOD through HIS Son JESUS, Repent, & Believe.

OR

(B) Reject the gift and remain unforgiven and destined to HELL for ETERNITY

Most Christians like to quote John 3: verse 16, but I also encourage unbelievers to read verses 17-21.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

J.B.
11-12-2009, 07:19 PM
:laugh: Thats funny. wouldn't be a penatly flag for unnecessary roughness?

Yeah, but I wanted to use the pic of Cowher :laugh:

Miss Foxy
11-12-2009, 07:20 PM
Simple answer: No, I'm not a good person.

Anyone who answers yes is a liar.

Aint that the truth Nate!! I am a bad girl...:laugh:

Tyburn
11-12-2009, 07:39 PM
Shon8121, there is not a person on this earth who can keep the 10 commandments. We all fall short of the mark. Jesus, GOD incarnate, Emmanuel(GOD with us), came to live and die as one of us. He at no time during his life sinned! He lived a life none of us could live, PERFECT OBEDIENCE! Yet HE took the punishment for your sin, my sin, and the sins of the world, past present, and future. The Bible states that "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin and that the wages of sin is death. Because of OUR DISOBEDIENCE, myself, you, and everyone else in the world are guilty before a HOLY & RIGHTEOUS GOD and deserve the punishment that Jesus took for us! That is why Jesus is called The LAMB OF GOD that taketh away the SINS of the World! The debt is paid in full. The GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. Now, there are only 2 things a person can do and that is:

(A) Accept the Free Gift offered by GOD through HIS Son JESUS, Repent, & Believe.

OR

(B) Reject the gift and remain unforgiven and destined to HELL for ETERNITY

Most Christians like to quote John 3: verse 16, but I also encourage unbelievers to read verses 17-21.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

:) I aggree with you on this

CAVEMAN
11-12-2009, 08:03 PM
:) I aggree with you on this

Singer and song writer John Davis summed it up best in his song "The Kind Of Heart"

If you took all the sorrows in all of our tomorrow's, and you took all the heartaches, and misery, and big mistakes, the failures, frustrations, defeats, and damnations, and you added 'em up, and multiplied that by the weight of the world and the knife in your back you'd arrive at the equation that would yield you the price of salvation.


But there's no way known to Man to even calculate how to build the kind of heart that wouldn't hesitate to take all of the wrong that would ever be and then swallow it all up in victory.


That's what Jesus did for you. And He did it for me. So unselfishly. And so gracefully.

Sometimes I find myself at a loss for words. When taken at face value, it seems so absurd, to believe in a love that comes on like that. Asking nothing in return, with no strings attached, to suffer and die, with nothing in mind but the will of the Father and hope for mankind. We arrive, at the station, all dressed up for our Transfiguration.


But there's no way known to Man to even calculate, how to build the kind of heart that wouldn't hesitate, to take all of the wrong that would ever be, and then swallow it all up in victory.

That's what Jesus did for you. And He did it for me. So unselfishly. And so gracefully.

Jonlion
11-13-2009, 01:41 AM
Shon,

For me this whole concept of sin being all the same baffled me for a long while. It caused me anger, frustration and beweilderment. Hear me, for I know that it sounds crazy that someone who lives a "good" life is the same as a murderer, a rapist and worse.

Now as I poured into God's word and still found this troublesome. So I want to entirely welcome your enquiry.

However once you get to understand the way of a Christian then it will slowly make sense.

For God cannot abide any sin, none at all. So to him is it all equal.

It becomes hard to grasp fully but think how it affects your outlook. The fact that all sin is equal humbles me. I am no better than anyone else, I cannot judge or trample over anyone.

You see, Christians might hound out and call homosexuals to death or whatever. But that is false for their sin is the same as my selfishness or lustfullness to women.

So by this fact that sin is equal it means I welcome all people, I love all people and walk with them and encourage them to come to Christ.

Sorry for this hashed out answer but I hope it makes some sense to how it works. My apoligies for any parts that I mess up.

Remember that all that we recieve is from God, even the fact that my eyes were opened to his truth.

If you are interested and perhaps god is wooing you, then take heed of it because trust me, if he begins to woo you, you gonna come, there is no escape, your becoming a Christian!!!!!!:laugh:


Just read the Gospel again or for the first time and see what happens.

God Bless

Buzzard
11-13-2009, 04:59 AM
Shon,

For me this whole concept of sin being all the same baffled me for a long while. It caused me anger, frustration and beweilderment. Hear me, for I know that it sounds crazy that someone who lives a "good" life is the same as a murderer, a rapist and worse.

Now as I poured into God's word and still found this troublesome. So I want to entirely welcome your enquiry.

However once you get to understand the way of a Christian then it will slowly make sense.

For God cannot abide any sin, none at all. So to him is it all equal.

It becomes hard to grasp fully but think how it affects your outlook. The fact that all sin is equal humbles me. I am no better than anyone else, I cannot judge or trample over anyone.

You see, Christians might hound out and call homosexuals to death or whatever. But that is false for their sin is the same as my selfishness or lustfullness to women.

So by this fact that sin is equal it means I welcome all people, I love all people and walk with them and encourage them to come to Christ.

Sorry for this hashed out answer but I hope it makes some sense to how it works. My apoligies for any parts that I mess up.

Remember that all that we recieve is from God, even the fact that my eyes were opened to his truth.

If you are interested and perhaps god is wooing you, then take heed of it because trust me, if he begins to woo you, you gonna come, there is no escape, your becoming a Christian!!!!!!:laugh:


Just read the Gospel again or for the first time and see what happens.

God Bless

I recognize that I'm unwelcome in this part of the forum, but I just wanted to say to you Jon that you are one of a select few on here who seem to get it. You do well for your cause. Best wishes in your walk.

Neezar
11-13-2009, 05:13 AM
I recognize that I'm unwelcome in this part of the forum, but I just wanted to say to you Jon that you are one of a select few on here who seem to get it. You do well for your cause. Best wishes in your walk.

Define it.

Buzzard
11-13-2009, 05:38 AM
Define it.

It is what it is and can't be bought or sold. It is a good thing. You either have it or you don't.:wink:

Neezar
11-13-2009, 05:40 AM
It is what it is and can't be bought or sold. It is a good thing. You either have it or you don't.:wink:

No, not the have it thing. You said that he seems to get it. That sounds like you are talking about understanding or grasping a concept of some sort. What is it that he gets?

J.B.
11-13-2009, 07:16 AM
It is what it is and can't be bought or sold. It is a good thing. You either have it or you don't.:wink:

I just vomited....:sad:

Buzzard
11-13-2009, 07:28 AM
I just vomited....:sad:

Always the folks who can't handle their liquor. I remember my first beer too, I kept it in though.

Did you get any of it on your shirt.

I take it that you don't get it.

EDIT: What do you get out of stalking me and making libelous comments about me? Some things you said are lower than I ever thought you would go. I guess you're capable of going much lower too. Can't you leave this be in this forum? If you wish to mock me where I can mock back and keep to my word about not derailing topics in the Christianity section, I suggest you do so. Is this just a cry for attention?

NateR
11-13-2009, 03:21 PM
It is what it is and can't be bought or sold. It is a good thing. You either have it or you don't.:wink:

So basically, what you are saying is that it is meaningless. If you can't define it more specifically than what you wrote, then it is nonsense. :wink:

Chris F
11-13-2009, 04:45 PM
Always the folks who can't handle their liquor. I remember my first beer too, I kept it in though.

Did you get any of it on your shirt.

I take it that you don't get it.

EDIT: What do you get out of stalking me and making libelous comments about me? Some things you said are lower than I ever thought you would go. I guess you're capable of going much lower too. Can't you leave this be in this forum? If you wish to mock me where I can mock back and keep to my word about not derailing topics in the Christianity section, I suggest you do so. Is this just a cry for attention?

This is a forum of the written word so they cannot be libelous. You may want to learn your terms before you use them. the legal term you were looking for is vilification since that requires a written communication whereas libel is a spoken communication. Just trying to help you expand your vocabulary. :wink: Just ribbing you man. But your use of the term is incorrect.

Tyburn
11-13-2009, 05:32 PM
I just vomited....:sad:

:laugh: