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View Full Version : Pacquiao/Cotto - How will it end?


rockdawg21
11-09-2009, 11:06 PM
Time to vote on the Pac/Cotto fight. How will it end?

I'm picking Pac by TKO. If I had to make a guess, I'll say round 9.

J.B.
11-10-2009, 03:54 AM
I'm thinking Pac wins by decision.

rearnakedchoke
11-10-2009, 02:23 PM
i think all signs for this point to a dec win for pac, but i am taking him by KO .... he knows a very decisive win will encourage a fight between him and PBF and pac knows he needs the fight with PBF more than PBF needs it with him

Miss Foxy
11-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Hopefully Cotto, however I don't want to do a sig bet and have ugly Pacman there.. lol.. All I want is someone to kick his ***....:blink:

rearnakedchoke
11-10-2009, 06:42 PM
Hopefully Cotto, however I don't want to do a sig bet and have ugly Pacman there.. lol.. All I want is someone to kick his ***....:blink:

If Manny gets his wish, PBF will be there to do that ...

rockdawg21
11-10-2009, 08:56 PM
If Manny gets his wish, PBF will be there to do that ...
Manny hasn't asked to fight Mayweather. He's already stated:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/mma/boxing/10/30/pacquiao.mayweather.ap/index.html?eref=si_mostpopular
"I don't think it's going to happen," Pacquiao said. "I'm sure he doesn't want to fight."

"Boxing for him is like a business," Pacquiao said. "He doesn't care about the people around him watching. He doesn't care if the fight is boring, as long as the fight is finished and he gets (plenty of) money. ... I want people to be happy. You have a big responsibility as a boxer."

I guess in a way, it's like calling him out indirectly though.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/11/01/09/team-pacquiao-%E2%80%98not-desperate%E2%80%99-mayweather
“You know obviously I’ve had minor discussions,” Canadian Mike Koncz, Pacquiao’s adviser, revealed to abs-cbnNEWS.com. “Manny's focused on this fight. We have a number of options for the next fight.”

Koncz said that their options include Shane Mosley and Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. “It’s not just Mayweather,” he reminded.

“Do we wanna do Mayweather? Of course we wanna do Mayweather,” stated Koncz. “But we won’t be railroaded and pushed around, bullied around.”

“I think the economics of the fight has to be right for us to agree,” he continued. “Do we need Mayweather? We don’t need Mayweather. If Manny gets past Cotto in great fashion, I don’t believe it makes a difference who he fights next.”

Great for fans

The Canadian adviser said if Manny wins on November 14, his popularity would surge just like what happened when he overpowered Oscar de la Hoya in 2008 and Ricky Hatton in May.

“We'd love to make the Mayweather fight. I think it will be a great fight for the fans. I think the fans want to see it. But again we're not desperate for it,” he declared.

“We’ve had open line communications with their people over the last year so they know what terms we're looking for… We’re not gonna chase Mayweather, absolutely not.”

Mayweather, who came out of retirement in May, won over Juan Manuel Marquez, in September by unanimous decision.

“They know where we’re at and I know where they’re at so hopefully we’d come to a place where we can all agree,” said Koncz.

I agree, it's likely not to happen. Mayweather will price himself out of the fight. It's both fighters egos, but this has already started. If both fighters really think they're the best and won't drop their damn egos to make it happen, it should go 40/40 with 20 bonus to the winner.

J.B.
11-10-2009, 09:48 PM
Manny and his lovers can call Floyd boring all they want, it don't change the fact that Mayweather is a much more talented boxer with a longer list of victories over big name fighters than Pac. It also won't change the fact that Floyd is a bigger draw than anybody else in Boxing right now. It's not about ego, it's about economics.

Also, it's important to note that Cotto does pose a significant threat to Manny and I don't think it's gonna be an easy fight for Pac. I think Pac will win, but if Cotto does pull it off then Pac can kiss any sort of bargaining leverage in a Mayweather fight goodbye.

rockdawg21
11-10-2009, 10:30 PM
I think he's boring because he's not very aggressive, and many fans boo during his fights so there's a lot of others who feel the same, but he's no doubt the most talented boxer on the planet, I won't deny that.

Boxing economics kind of sucks, which is one of the reasons why boxing kind of sucks...instead of giving the fans what they want, the business is often centered towards making money. Not that I'm against making money, but it's always Floyd's interests' first rather than his or boxing fans interests' first. Even Mayweather himself told Margarito something like, "We can do it, but it has to make good business sense."

No doubt, tough fight for both fighters. If Cotto wins, I'm sure it would put an end to the idea as a whole and rightfully so as it would be much less climatical. However, since it's about "economics", if Pac/Cotto draws more than 1 million buys, then Mayweather can kiss his 60% demands goodbye as well, but he won't stop trying as he is definitely persistent with those demands :laugh:

BTW, what is a "Level 9 Internet Boss?" :blink:

J.B.
11-10-2009, 11:28 PM
I think he's boring because he's not very aggressive, and many fans boo during his fights so there's a lot of others who feel the same, but he's no doubt the most talented boxer on the planet, I won't deny that.

Boxing economics kind of sucks, which is one of the reasons why boxing kind of sucks...instead of giving the fans what they want, the business is often centered towards making money. Not that I'm against making money, but it's always Floyd's interests' first rather than his or boxing fans interests' first. Even Mayweather himself told Margarito something like, "We can do it, but it has to make good business sense."

No doubt, tough fight for both fighters. If Cotto wins, I'm sure it would put an end to the idea as a whole and rightfully so as it would be much less climatical. However, since it's about "economics", if Pac/Cotto draws more than 1 million buys, then Mayweather can kiss his 60% demands goodbye as well, but he won't stop trying as he is definitely persistent with those demands :laugh:

BTW, what is a "Level 9 Internet Boss?" :blink:


Please provide me with video of all this booing during Mayweather fights...:ninja:

Also, please explain to me how booing has anything to do with the mechanics of the sport? If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. It's pretty simple. Mayweather is a master of the game and he is supposed to feel bad about that? In his 40 victories he has a 62% KO rating, but somehow he is not aggressive enough? Sure, Pac has a 68% KO rating, but he also has 14 more fights, has lost 3 times (2 by KO), and has 2 draws on his record.

Boxing economics is just business like any other business. If you think Boxing sucks, don't watch it, can't help you there. Boxers don't have retirement plans, or 401k's, or any of that stuff. They have to be smart and make smart decisions while they are in the prime of their careers in order to assure themselves security in the future. You never know when a fight could be your last one, it is a dangerous sport.

As for Pac/Cotto getting over a million buys...I have my doubts about the reality of that. However, even if it does happen that would not definitely swing the leverage towards Pac. Mayweather still has much more history as a powerful draw than Pac does, and he has still beaten more big names than Pac, even if Pac dominates Cotto.

Oh, a level 9 internet boss is me. Defeat me to win the internet.
It has yet to be done.

rockdawg21
11-10-2009, 11:50 PM
You don't remember his fight with Carlos Baldomir? Here's the interview from that fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYA49V_P4qs I also find this video funny as Mayweather backs away in his fights, and here he is booing at Morales :laugh:

I'm not talking about mechanics of the sport. I'm talking about entertainment and booing is a symbol that it is not entertaining. Even Mayweather himself calls himself an "entertainer", but people booed and even left during his fight with Baldomir.

Yeah, I understand that, just saying in Floyd's world, he hasn't any desire to assume any risk and give the fans the fights they want, at least in recent years.

I understand what you're saying JB, but people who are going to buy the fight could care less about Mayweather's boxing history victories - what people are noticing is what's been done in the past few years and what Pac has accomplished these past years is way more impressive than what Mayweather has accomplished these past years. People want the fight, they are demanding the fight, and Mayweather is going to price himself out of it instead of giving us what we want. Like it or not, the viewing public and the press is going to say it is Mayweather who is choosing not to make the fight happen. Maybe you won't see it that way, but that's how it will be to the viewing public nor the press. Of course, Pac has to beat Cotto first, which is no picnic!

LOL, I see. That's fine, you can keep the internet, I'll just borrow it since you're allowing me to do so. Thanks! :laugh:

Anyways, back to the point at hand, Pac by TKO round 9. I'm so pumped for this fight! :happydancing:

J.B.
11-11-2009, 12:33 AM
Yeah, I remember that fight, and he tooled Baldomir. People booed at Anderson Silva too, so what? They can boo all they want, they are not in the ring fighting. Booing don't change FACTS. Not every fight is going to be the fight of the century, and just because some idiots wanna act like that don't change reality. People left that fight because it was like watching a basketball game in the 4th quarter when one team is up by 30 points.

You can say you don't like his style all you want, but it don't take away any of his credentials as a boxer and there is no logical argument you can make to do so. Besides, you make it seem like every Floyd fight has been labeled boring, and even the most adamant Floyd haters with a boxing IQ over 10 know that is BS. You also act like all Floyd does is run away when you ignore the fact that he don't have to run. He stands right in front of guys and makes them miss 3, 4, sometimes 5 or more shots in a row.

Your opinion of Pac is so over-inflated with hype that you fail to recognize facts. Pac made DLH come down in weight to fight him, and Ricky Hatton was a joke. Beating two guys that Floyd beat 2 and 3 years before that in a "better" manner does not equate to being MORE impressive. Is Pac impressive? Yes, he is. Wait until after the fight with Cotto to say that he has been more impressive than PBF.

Remember that guy that a LOT of people think beat Manny, and he even took Manny to a draw? Juan Manuel Marquez? Yeah, Floyd just absolutely tooled him. So it goes both ways. Maybe if Pac comes out and knocks Cotto out early you will have a good argument, but until then you can't really say one fighter is more impressive than the other in the last few years. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be. :laugh:

Also, I could care less about the meathead fans. Boxing, like all major sports, has enough of a fanbase of true fans of the sport and the science of it. If all the meatheads never bought another PPV, boxing would still be there, but that will never happen because those people are meatheads and they will just keep buying the fights then crying about it. Stupid.

Sure, the media will rip on Floyd, no matter what happens. There is a lot of politics behind the scenes that you may or may not be aware of. Floyd is a great target, and he has used that to his advantage. The more they hate, the bigger he gets. The press prints negative spin all the time, and people eat it up because thats how the world is. There is no money in stories about Floyd handing out food to the homeless in Las Vegas, though you will see them from time to time. They've sold you Manny Pacquiao as "the people's champion", but he is just a fighter like Floyd and behind the scenes he makes the same business moves for his best interest.

atomdanger
11-11-2009, 12:51 AM
Manny and his lovers can call Floyd boring all they want, it don't change the fact that Mayweather is a much more talented boxer with a longer list of victories over big name fighters than Pac. It also won't change the fact that Floyd is a bigger draw than anybody else in Boxing right now. It's not about ego, it's about economics.

Also, it's important to note that Cotto does pose a significant threat to Manny and I don't think it's gonna be an easy fight for Pac. I think Pac will win, but if Cotto does pull it off then Pac can kiss any sort of bargaining leverage in a Mayweather fight goodbye.

remember that next time you think about bad mouthing an mma fighter for ducking.

rockdawg21
11-11-2009, 01:03 AM
The Pacquaio Hatton fight was a joke? Really? You weren't saying that before the fight:
PacMan has this locked down. I am gonna say KO in the 9th round, but I would not be surprised if Hatton looks better than he did against Floyd.

Heck he's got Floyd's dad training him now. :laugh:
Yeah, Floyd Sr is a great trainer, and I am sure Ricky will put up more of a fight than he did against Floyd Jr, but I do believe it's gonna be the same outcome. Manny just has too much speed for Ricky.

I'm not rooting for either fighter, but my money would definitely be on Manny.
So after the outcome of Manny thoroughly destroying Hatton, it's a joke? Note, I see you already said Pac has it locked, but you called it a joke after the fact, make up your mind :laugh:

The same thing was said about Pac's fight with DLH. Everybody kept saying that Pac is a fool for taking the fight against an obviously superior opponent. DLH himself kept saying over and over that he was very comfortable at the "new weight" weeks before the fight ever started. Pac busted him up, made him quit, and then later everybody and DLH said he was "water drained", so which is it?

As for Marquez, Mayweather fought an inflated balloon Marquez who is also a notorious counter-puncher who had to go on the offensive. Foolish mistake by Marquez to call out Mayweather, but Mayweather also did that fight as a publicity stunt. Marquez never had a shot in the first place and I called that one before the fight started.

I know you don't care about the meatheads of boxing, but one way or another, that's still how it's going to go down. I haven't been sold on the "people's champion" bs. In case you haven't read it, I've been saying both fighters need to drop their egos to make the fight happen for the fans. Both of them are to blame of the fight doesn't happen, but that's not how it will be viewed by the majority.

J.B.
11-11-2009, 01:25 AM
Bleh, I typed something up but forget it. There's no point in continuing the same crap over and over as neither of us see eye to eye on boxing :laugh:

Enjoy the fight! :punch:

I think we agree on more than you realize. The only real issue is Mayweather. You don't like the guy, and that is fine, but you cannot deny facts.

It all started with your thread that asked if any body would care about Mayweather vs Marquez. Needless to say, you were proven very wrong about that one.

The biggest difference is I don't hate Pac like you hate Floyd. Heck, Floyd is not even my favorite boxer. I am just presenting the facts.

rockdawg21
11-11-2009, 01:35 AM
I think we agree on more than you realize. The only real issue is Mayweather. You don't like the guy, and that is fine, but you cannot deny facts.

It all started with your thread that asked if any body would care about Mayweather vs Marquez. Needless to say, you were proven very wrong about that one.

The biggest difference is I don't hate Pac like you hate Floyd. Heck, Floyd is not even my favorite boxer. I am just presenting the facts.
Sorry JB, I changed my mind, you'll have to go back and re-read and re-reply but I'm sure you're already doing that, lol - I'll be done after I hear your reply. Just wanted to point out your contradiction of statements :wink:

And yes, I was wrong about that. Too bad PPV can't do demographics as it would be interesting to see who purchased the fight. Plus, I know they opened several theaters to view the fight for only $12 and those go into account, but I don't know if or how they calculate those either. No matter how you stack it, 1 million PPV buys, especially for a non-title fight is crazy.

J.B.
11-11-2009, 01:57 AM
The Pacquaio Hatton fight was a joke? Really? You weren't saying that before the fight:


So after the outcome of Manny thoroughly destroying Hatton, it's a joke? Note, I see you already said Pac has it locked, but you called it a joke after the fact, make up your mind :laugh:

The same thing was said about Pac's fight with DLH. Everybody kept saying that Pac is a fool for taking the fight against an obviously superior opponent. DLH himself kept saying over and over that he was very comfortable at the "new weight" weeks before the fight ever started. Pac busted him up, made him quit, and then later everybody and DLH said he was "water drained", so which is it?

As for Marquez, Mayweather fought an inflated balloon Marquez who is also a notorious counter-puncher who had to go on the offensive. Foolish mistake by Marquez to call out Mayweather, but Mayweather also did that fight as a publicity stunt. Marquez never had a shot in the first place and I called that one before the fight started.

I know you don't care about the meatheads of boxing, but one way or another, that's still how it's going to go down. I haven't been sold on the "people's champion" bs. In case you haven't read it, I've been saying both fighters need to drop their egos to make the fight happen for the fans. Both of them are to blame of the fight doesn't happen, but that's not how it will be viewed by the majority.

PFFFT....yeah, nice try. How would a person be able to call a fight a joke, in the context I was using, before it even happened? All you have proven is that you know how to use the search function on this forum. :laugh:

Of course I thought Hatton would put up a better fight, everybody did. Nobody thought he would walk out there against Pac and lead with his chin. That was the joke about it. That's not taking anything away from Pac, but it is what it is. It's not like Pac is Mike Tyson after the Hatton KO. It happens.
I don't see how your quote changes anything I have said. In case you didn't notice, I was still right and said Manny would win.

What did you think Oscar was gonna come out and say? I feel like crap and I'm old? Of course he said he was cool with it, but anybody with a pair of eyes could see he looked small, and it definitely had an impact, but I don't think it was much, and I still think Pac would have won. That's not Pac's fault, but it is the truth. Oscar never REALLY wanted that fight, he wanted a rematch with Floyd. Regardless, I am not making an issue of the weights, I was merely pointing out that Pac has done the same things as any other fighter. You crapped all over Floyd for the Marquez weight but it's no different than Manny and Oscar. All fighters do that.

Yes, you did predict that Floyd would beat JMM, but tell me how is fighting the number 2 ranked P4P fighter in the world, who called YOU out, in your first fight back from retirement a publicity stunt? You also just got through defending Pac about the DLH weight and then turn around and use that very logic to criticize Floyd for fighting JMM at 146. It's ridiculous. Yeah, the weight differences do matter sometimes, but I don't think it made any difference in either of those fights. I think Manny would have beat Oscar regardless at that point because DLH is pretty washed up. I also think Floyd would have tooled JMM at any weight just based on pure skill.

I don't think we can really say whats gonna happen until after this fight with Cotto. I agree with you that there will be people in the media who play Floyd as the bad guy, but that is nothing new. Like I said, the more haters hate, the bigger Floyd gets. I think if Manny beats Cotto, we will see the fight with Floyd sometime in 2010, but a lot of it rides on this next fight.

J.B.
11-11-2009, 02:04 AM
remember that next time you think about bad mouthing an mma fighter for ducking.

What?

What MMA fighter did I bad mouth for ducking? :blink:

Seriously, there are 5 other areas on this forum devoted to MMA. Let's leave the MMA talk there since this is not a debate about the two sports.

J.B.
11-11-2009, 05:11 AM
Oh yeah, check out Wapakman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osc0qIQbiB0

Guess Manny is a movie star now...:laugh:

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 01:49 AM
Thought some people might be interested in what EA Sports has to say about the fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-3WMO5fobU

J.B.
11-12-2009, 01:57 AM
Thought some people might be interested in what EA Sports has to say about the fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-3WMO5fobU

Too bad they won't be playing FNR4 this Saturday...:rolleyes:

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 02:34 AM
Oh yeah, check out Wapakman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osc0qIQbiB0

Guess Manny is a movie star now...:laugh:
Yeah, Manny is everywhere in the Philippines. You go to the mall, they are displaying his karaoke standup and microphone. He's made a music album, there's bobbleheads, etc. When I went there in May 2007, he was doing his first political run. Most people just wanted him to box which is why he lost the election.

He's by far the most popular person in the Philippines, it is true "PacMania" there. Some people there are tired of hearing about him though, lol

J.B.
11-12-2009, 02:47 AM
Yeah, Manny is everywhere in the Philippines. You go to the mall, they are displaying his karaoke standup and microphone. He's made a music album, there's bobbleheads, etc. When I went there in May 2007, he was doing his first political run. Most people just wanted him to box which is why he lost the election.

He's by far the most popular person in the Philippines, it is true "PacMania" there. Some people there are tired of hearing about him though, lol

Thats awesome for Manny. Boxing needs more stars that stand out like Manny and Floyd, it is good for the whole sport.

Although, if Floyd dressed up in that ridiculous suit that Manny had on, I don't think you would ever let me hear the end of it, lol :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 03:17 AM
Thats awesome for Manny. Boxing needs more stars that stand out like Manny and Floyd, it is good for the whole sport.

Although, if Floyd dressed up in that ridiculous suit that Manny had on, I don't think you would ever let me hear the end of it, lol :laugh:
LOL, yeah, things are much different in the Philippines than they are here. Something I thought was weird was how accepted gays are there and it's a VERY Catholic dominated country. So much that even divorce is outlawed.

But, you never know, Floyd did say he wants to be a pro-wrestler. Since he enjoys dressing in the Mexican colors, maybe he'll come is as one of the Mexican-style wrestlers with those crazy outfit/mask combinations.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 03:30 AM
LOL, yeah, things are much different in the Philippines than they are here. Something I thought was weird was how accepted gays are there and it's a VERY Catholic dominated country. So much that even divorce is outlawed.

But, you never know, Floyd did say he wants to be a pro-wrestler. Since he enjoys dressing in the Mexican colors, maybe he'll come is as one of the Mexican-style wrestlers with those crazy outfit/mask combinations.

I honestly don't think Floyd has the RIGHT charisma to be a very entertaining pro-wrestler. He's got the fight game, and the talking end of it down just fine, but I don't think he would be able to pull of any other character but himself, and that don't make a good pro-wrestler, at least not to me personally.

Although, the Mexican colors and sombrero against DLH was hilarious. :laugh:

http://static.taume.com/image/Floyd-Mayweather-Jr.jpg

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 03:41 AM
I honestly don't think Floyd has the RIGHT charisma to be a very entertaining pro-wrestler. He's got the fight game, and the talking end of it down just fine, but I don't think he would be able to pull of any other character but himself, and that don't make a good pro-wrestler, at least not to me personally.

Although, the Mexican colors and sombrero against DLH was hilarious. :laugh:

http://static.taume.com/image/Floyd-Mayweather-Jr.jpg
Yeah, I agree, no way he'd be able to escape the character of himself and be considered legit. Even if he came in as himself, it's only the special appearances as himself that are appealing. I'm sure everybody would get tired of him punching the Big Show, especially when the whole world knows Big Show could throw him through the rafters :laugh:

Yeah, I was laughing my ass off when he came to the ring wearing that get-up!

J.B.
11-12-2009, 03:45 AM
Ya gotta admit, it was hilarious seeing Floyd's crew carrying him out of the arena and Big Show dragging them back to the ring. :laugh:

Also, I think if I remember correctly, the first time Mayweather actually punched Big Show, to set up the little fued, he actually broke his nose on accident. :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-12-2009, 03:50 AM
LOL, yeah, that was great!

I was wondering if that was supposed to happen or if it was an accident. If Big Show truly set himself to take that, then kudos to him. I'm guessing it wasn't an accident though because Big Show has a giant head, he wasn't moving, and everybody knows Mayweather punches with tremendous accuracy. And at the very least, it wouldn't be in Mayweather's character to throw that cheap shot so I think it was set up to happen.

J.B.
11-12-2009, 04:08 AM
I think Show was definitely ready to take the shot, but I don't think the actual nose breaking was intentional, at least that was is what I remember reading at the time.

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 12:32 AM
Weigh-in results:

Pacquiao - 144
Cotto - 145

Both fighters look ripped and ready! This is going to be an awesome fight! :punch:

MattHughesRocks
11-14-2009, 04:34 AM
I just voted...when is the fight? It's not over is it? :unsure-1:

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 04:50 AM
I just voted...when is the fight? It's not over is it? :unsure-1:
PPV starts tomorrow night (11/14) at 8pm CST

MattHughesRocks
11-14-2009, 05:14 AM
Cool thanks.

PPV starts tomorrow night (11/14) at 8pm CST

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 10:16 PM
By the way, anybody get a look at this undercard? This PPV is stacked with great fights/fighters!

• Jesus Soto-Karass (24-3-3, 16 KOs), Los Mochis, Mexico, vs. Alfonso Gomez (20-4-2, 10 KOs), Tustin, Calif., 10 rounds, for vacant WBC Continental Americas Welterweight (147 pounds) Championship.

• Daniel Santos (33-2-1, 23 KOs), Bayamon, Puerto Rico, vs. Yuri Foreman (27-0, eight KOs), Brooklyn, N.Y., 12 rounds, for Santos' WBA Super Welterweight (154 pounds) Championship.

• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (40-0-1, 30 KOs), Culiacan, Sinoloa, Mexico, vs. Troy Rowland (25-2, seven KOs), Grand Rapids, Mich., 10 rounds, middleweights (160 pounds)

=========================================

On a side note, I'm picking:

• Alfonso Gomez
• Yuri Foreman
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

J.B.
11-14-2009, 10:29 PM
Gomez was on the Contender, he's okay, but I think Karass will beat him. Karass has a good reach advantage and he has not lost a fight since 2005 against Yuri Foreman, go figure.

Santos last win against a marquee opponent was Margarito in 04 and Foreman to me just seems like the better overall boxer. Yuri SHOULD win this fight easily.

As for JCC Jr., I think the guy is an animal and I think you will be hard pressed to find many analysts or fans who are picking Rowland. JCC Jr. by KO.

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 10:37 PM
I just like the heart of Gomez. He really impressed me when he was on The Contender. I guess I always gun for the "little guy" because I've never been very big myself :)

Yeah, JCC is a beast. Him and Paul Williams are the guys the "top" guys avoid with a passion. Can't say I blame them if they are worried about having their records tarnished as neither one would really provide a greater "legacy" for the top guys' records.

J.B.
11-14-2009, 10:44 PM
I just like the heart of Gomez. He really impressed me when he was on The Contender. I guess I always gun for the "little guy" because I've never been very big myself :)

Yeah, JCC is a beast. Him and Paul Williams are the guys the "top" guys avoid with a passion. Can't say I blame them if they are worried about having their records tarnished.

Paul Williams definitely has the plauge right now... cuz everybody is avoiding him :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 10:47 PM
Paul Williams definitely has the plauge right now... cuz everybody is avoiding him :laugh:
LOL, yeah, and he's silently jumping weight classes like Pac did last year. He's just not mainstream enough for it to get noticed. Poor guy :(

While we're on the subject, I would LOVE to see him and JJC Jr. clash. It wouldn't be a huge PPV draw, but I wouldn't miss it!

J.B.
11-14-2009, 10:56 PM
LOL, yeah, and he's silently jumping weight classes like Pac did last year. He's just not mainstream enough for it to get noticed. Poor guy :(

While we're on the subject, I would LOVE to see him and JJC Jr. clash. It wouldn't be a huge PPV draw, but I wouldn't miss it!


Well, I don't know....I think it could potentially do pretty good, if they packaged it right.

JCC Jr. already has a quite a name for himself, for obvious reasons, and Chad Dawson has really come up in the sport the last couple years. Even a lot of casual fans have heard of Dawson, and unless they have been living under a rock in the sports world for 20 years, most people have heard of JCC Jr's dad. So that alone would make the fight marketable. I'm just not sure it's the right time for either of them from a business standpoint. From a fans standpoint, I agree it would be awesome.

Are you gonna be online tonight during the fight? I will be.

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 11:06 PM
Well, I don't know....I think it could potentially do pretty good, if they packaged it right.

JCC Jr. already has a quite a name for himself, for obvious reasons, and Chad Dawson has really come up in the sport the last couple years. Even a lot of casual fans have heard of Dawson, and unless they have been living under a rock in the sports world for 20 years, most people have heard of JCC Jr's dad. So that alone would make the fight marketable. I'm just not sure it's the right time for either of them from a business standpoint. From a fans standpoint, I agree it would be awesome.

Are you gonna be online tonight during the fight? I will be.
I think it could do a couple hundred thousand buys, which is good. Guess I'm getting to used to the mega blockbusters being produced when Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, lol

Sorry, I'll be at the local Filipino bar watching the fights tonight. They always have a pretty good buy - $20 gets you the all-you-can-eat buffet, dancing/karaoke for a while, then the PPV, followed by more dancing/karaoke. :happydancing:

J.B.
11-14-2009, 11:18 PM
I think it could do a couple hundred thousand buys, which is good. Guess I'm getting to used to the mega blockbusters being produced when Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, lol

Sorry, I'll be at the local Filipino bar watching the fights tonight. They always have a pretty good buy - $20 gets you the all-you-can-eat buffet, dancing/karaoke for a while, then the PPV, followed by more dancing/karaoke. :happydancing:

Karaoke huh? LOL :laugh:

No, I can't talk...I've been a DJ and Karaoke host on the side for years. I was gonna go out and watch the fights, but I'm working on a project and kinda need to stay home and get it done, so I am just watching the fight here tonight.

Have fun and stay safe! :cool:

rockdawg21
11-14-2009, 11:26 PM
Karaoke huh? LOL :laugh:

No, I can't talk...I've been a DJ and Karaoke host on the side for years. I was gonna go out and watch the fights, but I'm working on a project and kinda need to stay home and get it done, so I am just watching the fight here tonight.

Have fun and stay safe! :cool:
LOL, yeah, I do some mean Eminem, Kid Rock, and various rap songs. :Whistle:

Filipinos love karaoke so much, most of them have a karaoke machine and microphones in their homes. It's crazy. When I was there, to pass the time, we sing karaoke, lol. It was good times though.

Thanks man, you have fun too. I'm gonna head out now. They start the buffet 2 hours before the PPV starts.

J.B.
11-14-2009, 11:40 PM
LOL, yeah, I do some mean Eminem, Kid Rock, and various rap songs. :Whistle:

Filipinos love karaoke so much, most of them have a karaoke machine and microphones in their homes. It's crazy. When I was there, to pass the time, we sing karaoke, lol. It was good times though.

Thanks man, you have fun too. I'm gonna head out now. They start the buffet 2 hours before the PPV starts.

:laugh:

you are probably gone by now but oh well...

you need to take some vids of you singing karaoke and post em up! :)

Karaoke machines are hilarious, I use a more modern approach, but still the same thing in the end... :laugh:

Oh yeah, and I'll even send you a little extra going away gift...

WAR PACQUIAO!!! :cool:

J.B.
11-15-2009, 04:49 AM
RD 1 - Cotto

J.B.
11-15-2009, 04:55 AM
Holy crap... it sounds like an NFL game... I really think they added sound....

J.B.
11-15-2009, 04:57 AM
Round 2 was too close for me too call....i had to deal with too much BS....:angry:

J.B.
11-15-2009, 04:58 AM
Manny being Manny.... in the 3rd round

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:00 AM
Holy good round......even I don't know what to say....probably give it to PAC

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:03 AM
Mayweather would kill both of the fighters that showed up tonight.... (4th round)

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:04 AM
OHHHHHh!!!! OHHH!!!! Manny is a FREAK!!!

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:04 AM
Gotta give it up... this is a GOOD fight! :)

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:11 AM
Wow..coming out of the 6th, I give it to Manny...

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:13 AM
Dayum.....both guys look more strained than I expected....

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:14 AM
Pac has this.... mid 7th

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:15 AM
Cotto basically seems to have given up...still in the 7th

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:16 AM
Cotto acts like Rocky..gets some heart....still give the round to PAC

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:19 AM
8th rd

Cotto needs a KO or he is done....(I don't care what they tell u)

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:21 AM
Both of these fools would still get beat down by the real P4P Champ Floyd Mayweather Jr.....9th round

Neezar
11-15-2009, 05:23 AM
Come on now, don't leave me hanging. lol

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:24 AM
OHHHH!!!!


Manny dominates the 9th round....


close to a stoppage....wow....

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:25 AM
Come on now, don't leave me hanging. lol

I'm new to this... sorry...

I'm trying!!! :laugh:

Neezar
11-15-2009, 05:26 AM
Only 9 rounds right? Who won?

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:29 AM
Only 9 rounds right? Who won?

9 rounds? This is a title fight!

12 or 15 rounds.....

but this fight is OVER.....:sad:

Neezar
11-15-2009, 05:30 AM
9 rounds? This is a title fight!

12 or 15 rounds.....

but this fight is OVER.....:sad:

:scared0015: What happened?

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:32 AM
:scared0015: What happened?


We are waiting for an OFFICIAL end...

but it's obvious Pac is the winner

Neezar
11-15-2009, 05:34 AM
We are waiting for an OFFICIAL end...

but it's obvious Pac is the winner

Why? Cotto can't continue? Too tired and beat up? Or a body part hanging off? :laugh: Come on, JB!

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:34 AM
LOL!!!!


The broadcasters ACTUALLY think Manny could beat Floyd with THAT performance....

:unsure-1:

Welcome to reality ....FLOYD IS BETTER :)

Luv U ROCKdawg!

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:37 AM
Why? Cotto can't continue? Too tired and beat up? Or a body part hanging off? :laugh: Come on, JB!


Manny Pacquiao is the winner...


no surprise as he was a 3-1 favorite..:rolleyes:

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:39 AM
Sigh.....

Rock...I luv ya... but guess what?

Manny can't beat Floyd with that...LOL DONGS!

Neezar
11-15-2009, 05:41 AM
Too bad for Rocky. :laugh:

J.B.
11-15-2009, 05:43 AM
i am actually really happy right now... we can have Floyd vs Manny!!!

rockdawg21
11-15-2009, 06:31 AM
Bleh, nobody honestly felt that Pac was a 3:1 favorite (I think technically 2.5:1), even you (and myself). Justify it however you want, but the bottom line is Pac beat the crap out of a guy whom Mayweather has ducked since he joined the WW division in 2006. Pac looked sloppy at times, but at the point when it happened, he had the fight in the bag. In the early rounds, things looked good although Cotto caught him good a few times.

Pac won bigtime tonight over somebody whom Floyd Mayweather Sr. said "Cotto has the edge over Pacquiao" and he even dared the winner to challenge his son: "Whoever wins this Pacquiao-Cotto fight will challenge my boy." Roger, Floyd Sr. and Roach have all called out for this fight, but will Mayweather be reasonable or greedy? He will be greedy and try to use that "I'm the PPV king" to duck the fight. He's a bitch like that, anybody who has an opportunity to tarnish his record doesn't make "business sense" to him. I understand making money, but for God's sake, if the guy is going to claim he's the best fighter in the world, he should step up to the best challenges which is something he hasn't done in several years. In the past 4 years, Mayweather has continued to duck the best fighters in his own division; he will make every opportunity to duck Pacquiao as well because Pac wouldn't make "business sense" even if he were to make 25 million dollars from the damn fight simply because Pac has a very legitimate chance to tarnish Mayweather's perfect record even if it means he will be hounded by the press. Maybe I'm wrong and just talking crap, but does record or money matter more to him? That's the real question here.

I've said my peace and I'm done with the whole Mayweather/Pacquiao subject. I'm a Pac nuthugger and you're a Mayweather nuthugger so there's nothing more to discuss. We'll see if the fight actually comes to fruition or not. If so, the we can resume the subject, lol

Awesome boxing fights tonight except the JCC Jr. fight. I honestly felt that JCC Jr. lost that fight and won just because of his name. That fight kinda sucked.

Oh, on a side note, I was 4/4 tonight and I also predicted the TKO victory for Pac, but I did guess the wrong round :sad:

atomdanger
11-15-2009, 08:55 AM
Flloyd won't fight Pacman, he is a sissy.
He fights safely, and he fights for himself.

Not for the sport, not for a challenge, etc....

Pacman is the first boxer in history to hold a title in 7 weight classes.
damn.

atomdanger
11-15-2009, 09:04 AM
Both of these fools would still get beat down by the real P4P Champ Floyd Mayweather Jr.....9th round

Mayweather is a joke.
Finished 1 of his last 5,
and that one finish (Hatton) Pacman did in what? less than 1/4 of the time.
(Pacman also KOed Hatton, not TKOed)

Pacman has finished 4 of his last 5, he comes to fight, not run.
Not to mention Pac is 50 - 3, with 38 KOs, Flloyd is 40 - 0, 25 Ko's.
Pacman moves up to fight Cotto, Mayweather made somebody move up 2 weight classes in his last fight.
Why didn't Flloyd fight Cotto? Or Pacman? The Juan Manuel Márquez fight was because Flloyd missed the cameras, period.

rearnakedchoke
11-15-2009, 01:27 PM
i like manny, but he will lose to pbf .... if they fight, pbf is gonna want something like 70-30 split, which i think he deserves ... manny won't take this fight at that as he knows, why lose and only get 30 ... he is gonna push for 50 - 50 which is gonna be the deal breaker and people will say pbf is ducking manny .... oh well ...

J.B.
11-15-2009, 01:35 PM
Mayweather is a joke.
Finished 1 of his last 5,
and that one finish (Hatton) Pacman did in what? less than 1/4 of the time.
(Pacman also KOed Hatton, not TKOed)

Pacman has finished 4 of his last 5, he comes to fight, not run.
Not to mention Pac is 50 - 3, with 38 KOs, Flloyd is 40 - 0, 25 Ko's.
Pacman moves up to fight Cotto, Mayweather made somebody move up 2 weight classes in his last fight.
Why didn't Flloyd fight Cotto? Or Pacman? The Juan Manuel Márquez fight was because Flloyd missed the cameras, period.

Watch Boxing much?

Guess not...

Seriously, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Pacman moved up in weight because there is nobody for him to fight at the lower weight classes. In case you forgot, to which you probably never knew in the first place, Mayweather came up in weight for years. Floyd came up in weight to fight De La Hoya but Manny made DLH come down in weight. Floyd has not ducked anybody, he has taken the best fights for him at this and pretty much every stage of his career. You could make an argument that Floyd could have already fought Shane Mosley, but you can make that argument about ANY fighter at one point or another, it's stupid. If Oscar would have retired before fighting Floyd, you can guarantee that Floyd would have already fought Cotto, Mosley, or both. When Floyd came back out of retirement JMM challenged him, not the other way around, and JMM was the number 2 ranked p4p fighter by most analysts.

Saying Floyd runs away is a mindset that is born from meatheadedness and a lack of understanding of the sport. Also, I don't see how you can actually try to make the comparison between KO% after I already did that in this thread. Floyd has a 62% KO rating and Manny has a 68%, but Manny has 14 more fights so you can't really say it's that much better. Guess you forgot to mention that Manny has been KO'd twice (once by jab) and has fought two draws. Yeah, Manny is hot right now, but saying he is better based on getting a KO when Floyd got a TKO or any other crap like that is utter nonsense. It is the equivalent of MMA math and it's retarded.

I like Manny, I think he's a great fighter and I think the fight with Floyd would be huge and a great fight to boot. It just makes me wanna puke when I see people try to make blind points that they don't really have much insight on just because they don't like a person. Go watch the sport more, then come back and talk that crap.

J.B.
11-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Bleh, nobody honestly felt that Pac was a 3:1 favorite (I think technically 2.5:1), even you (and myself). Justify it however you want, but the bottom line is Pac beat the crap out of a guy whom Mayweather has ducked since he joined the WW division in 2006. Pac looked sloppy at times, but at the point when it happened, he had the fight in the bag. In the early rounds, things looked good although Cotto caught him good a few times.

Pac won bigtime tonight over somebody whom Floyd Mayweather Sr. said "Cotto has the edge over Pacquiao" and he even dared the winner to challenge his son: "Whoever wins this Pacquiao-Cotto fight will challenge my boy." Roger, Floyd Sr. and Roach have all called out for this fight, but will Mayweather be reasonable or greedy? He will be greedy and try to use that "I'm the PPV king" to duck the fight. He's a bitch like that, anybody who has an opportunity to tarnish his record doesn't make "business sense" to him. I understand making money, but for God's sake, if the guy is going to claim he's the best fighter in the world, he should step up to the best challenges which is something he hasn't done in several years. In the past 4 years, Mayweather has continued to duck the best fighters in his own division; he will make every opportunity to duck Pacquiao as well because Pac wouldn't make "business sense" even if he were to make 25 million dollars from the damn fight simply because Pac has a very legitimate chance to tarnish Mayweather's perfect record even if it means he will be hounded by the press. Maybe I'm wrong and just talking crap, but does record or money matter more to him? That's the real question here.

I've said my peace and I'm done with the whole Mayweather/Pacquiao subject. I'm a Pac nuthugger and you're a Mayweather nuthugger so there's nothing more to discuss. We'll see if the fight actually comes to fruition or not. If so, the we can resume the subject, lol

Awesome boxing fights tonight except the JCC Jr. fight. I honestly felt that JCC Jr. lost that fight and won just because of his name. That fight kinda sucked.

Oh, on a side note, I was 4/4 tonight and I also predicted the TKO victory for Pac, but I did guess the wrong round :sad:

Oh please...

Your boy just won, but you are spending more time talking about Floyd than about Pac....:rolleyes:

I think the fight will happen, regardless of your biased beliefs.

Remember, you are a Pac nuthugger and I'm nuthugger of facts, not of Floyd. You just think I'm a Floyd nuthugger because I don't trash the guy at every opportunity like you and the rest of the haters.

J.B.
11-15-2009, 09:47 PM
This fight is going to happen...it's too big not to.

This is a decent article from Dan Wetzel about the matter, and it says that Richard Shaefer from Golden Boy will be contacting Arum on Monday about making the fight happen.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=Ai5M68ifIniKPeqY6ljEa_g5nYcB?slug=dw-pacfloyd111509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

logrus
11-15-2009, 11:53 PM
PBF hasn't done anything to impress me as of late the fact he would be worth while at this time to fight Manny is a bit far fetched. I am not going to jump up and down because he beat a fighter forced to come up in weight and then missed the weight himself. There was zero productivity from him in 08 and then in 07 he struggled to beat Hatton and then went to a decision with Oscar.

Nothing to warrant him a shot at Manny or the title.

rockdawg21
11-15-2009, 11:56 PM
PBF hasn't done anything to impress me as of late the fact he would be worth while at this time to fight Manny is a bit far fetched. I am not going to jump up and down because he beat a fighter forced to come up in weight and then missed the weight himself. There was zero productivity from him in 08 and then in 07 he struggled to beat Hatton and then went to a decision with Oscar.

Nothing to warrant him a shot at Manny or the title.
Uh oh, you done it now, JB is going to have a hernia over this one, lol

J.B.
11-16-2009, 12:34 AM
PBF hasn't done anything to impress me as of late the fact he would be worth while at this time to fight Manny is a bit far fetched. I am not going to jump up and down because he beat a fighter forced to come up in weight and then missed the weight himself. There was zero productivity from him in 08 and then in 07 he struggled to beat Hatton and then went to a decision with Oscar.

Nothing to warrant him a shot at Manny or the title.

Well, it's a good thing nobody cares what impresses you because that's the most retarded crap I've ever heard. Usually it's easy to pick apart casual fans ridiculous arguments and exploit their lack of knowledge of the sport, but I don't even have to do anything with that post. You succeeded in making yourself look ridiculous by even trying to suggest that a Manny vs Floyd fight is not warranted. If you truly believe that, it already goes without saying that you know nothing about Boxing.

What fight were you watching when Floyd fought Hatton? Did you even watch the fight? Hatton won ONE round that entire fight, hardly a struggle. :rolleyes:

Also, Floyd never technically missed weight against Marquez. Go back to Google and get your facts straight. If you are gonna crap on Floyd for having Marquez come up in weight, you gotta say the same about Pacquiao for making Oscar come down in weight. You are just a hater who refuses to give Floyd any credit because of your personal dislike of him, just like Atom.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 12:40 AM
Uh oh, you done it now, JB is going to have a hernia over this one, lol

At least you admit your a hater.

I know you can't honestly agree with that nonsense that Floyd and Manny should not fight.

I can't even take Logrus seriously, he's probably just trying to get a rile out of me, and I could care less. I love Boxing, always have, always will, and if somebody comes along and tries to molest the facts I will call it out. This IS a message board. It don't really get me upset, I enjoy ripping people's ridiculous logic apart from the comfort of my home.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 01:12 AM
At least you admit your a hater.

I know you can't honestly agree with that nonsense that Floyd and Manny should not fight.

I can't even take Logrus seriously, he's probably just trying to get a rile out of me, and I could care less. I love Boxing, always have, always will, and if somebody comes along and tries to molest the facts I will call it out. This IS a message board. It don't really get me upset, I enjoy ripping people's ridiculous logic apart from the comfort of my home.
LOL, I agree with him on a few points to a certain degree, but hands down, Pac and Mayweather are the best p4p boxers on the planet and there's absolutely no reason for them to avoid each other. It would only be excuses by either one of them if this fight doesn't take place. Fans want it, their trainers want it, and I'm sure both of them want it even if they aren't saying it. I believe one way or another it's going to happen.

Mayweather and Pac are both greedy, but with good reason, and there's way too much money involved for both of them to pass it up as there's going to be more than enough for each fighter. The DLH/Mayweather purse was 80 million and I have no doubt in my mind the purse would be surpassed with this and each fighter would make 50 million each. No way they would pass this up!

logrus
11-16-2009, 01:42 AM
Well, it's a good thing nobody cares what impresses you because that's the most retarded crap I've ever heard. Usually it's easy to pick apart casual fans ridiculous arguments and exploit their lack of knowledge of the sport, but I don't even have to do anything with that post. You succeeded in making yourself look ridiculous by even trying to suggest that a Manny vs Floyd fight is not warranted. If you truly believe that, it already goes without saying that you know nothing about Boxing.

What fight were you watching when Floyd fought Hatton? Did you even watch the fight? Hatton won ONE round that entire fight, hardly a struggle. :rolleyes:

Also, Floyd never technically missed weight against Marquez. Go back to Google and get your facts straight. If you are gonna crap on Floyd for having Marquez come up in weight, you gotta say the same about Pacquiao for making Oscar come down in weight. You are just a hater who refuses to give Floyd any credit because of your personal dislike of him, just like Atom.

So who has Floyd beat on a level playing field fairly in the last 2 years that would make you want to see the fight. Yeah nobody NEXT

So who has Floyd TKO or KO that would make you feel he would have a shot against 4 out of 5 Manny. Yeah nobody, funny how that is.

I don't have to google the Floyd overweight incident cause lets be honest. It was never Floyds concern to make the weight. Thats why he had it stipulated in the contract and thats why his camp prior to weigh ins tried to change it and ran their asses off the try to correct it to favor Floyd instead of Floyd losing an extra 2 pounds.

You can't compare what Manny did and what Floyd has done. Manny was still fighting competively at the time he made the deal to fight Oscar. Floyd had taken 20+ months off. Besides didn't Manny come up two weight classes to the 147 limit to fight Oscar who only had to come down one. Marq came up two weight classes to fight, how many weight classes did Floyd drop or climb? Ohh thats right nobody knows cause the contract filing refiling, delay B.S.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 02:27 AM
So who has Floyd beat on a level playing field fairly in the last 2 years that would make you want to see the fight. Yeah nobody NEXT

So who has Floyd TKO or KO that would make you feel he would have a shot against 4 out of 5 Manny. Yeah nobody, funny how that is.

I don't have to google the Floyd overweight incident cause lets be honest. It was never Floyds concern to make the weight. Thats why he had it stipulated in the contract and thats why his camp prior to weigh ins tried to change it and ran their asses off the try to correct it to favor Floyd instead of Floyd losing an extra 2 pounds.

You can't compare what Manny did and what Floyd has done. Manny was still fighting competively at the time he made the deal to fight Oscar. Floyd had taken 20+ months off. Besides didn't Manny come up two weight classes to the 147 limit to fight Oscar who only had to come down one. Marq came up two weight classes to fight, how many weight classes did Floyd drop or climb? Ohh thats right nobody knows cause the contract filing refiling, delay B.S.

There is no amount of anti-Floyd venom you can spew that would ever be enough for anybody with a working brain to agree with you that we should not see this fight. You have successfully crossed over into the realm of foolishness. Next you will be telling us how Bush planned 9/11.

What the heck is a "4 out of 5 Manny"? Really, you are so full of hate for Floyd that you can't even make sense of your points. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should Google the incident, seeing as how you know enough to try and bash Floyd, but don't know enough to admit that the contract was ALWAYS for 147. You are right, Floyd had no intention of coming down, but if you think that the weight issue actually played a part in the performance you are crazy. Just like the De La Hoya vs Pacquiao fight, Pacquiao was coming up in weight anyway because he ran out of people to fight so it's not like it mattered. He didn't HAVE to make DLH come down, and it's no secret that Oscar looked drained from the cut. However, it wouldn't have mattered because Oscar is just washed up in general and Pac was going to beat him either way in my opinion. The point is, it's stupid to sit and complain about weight issues when the skill set of the victorious boxer is so much better than the other guy's in the first place. The weights typically make only a small difference, if any at all. People try to use weight issues to build their cases for or against a certain fighter all the time and 9 times out of 10, the points they make are just stupid. I love how you say "2 weight classes" as if we are talking about 15 pounds per class like in MMA. How many weight classes did Mayweather come down? ZERO, because he has been fighting at around 147 for almost 5 years. Marquez issued the challenge, Marquez was number 2 p4p, and Floyd beat his ass. Deal with it. What's the point of ranking guys P4P if people are just gonna cry about a 5 to 7 pound difference when they actually fight?

The only thing that wasn't fair about Floyd's victory over Marquez was how vastly superior Mayweather is in terms of skill. Also, lest you fail to mention that that MANY people feel Marquez actually beat Pac in their last fight which was in 2008, not like it was that long ago. Yeah, Mayweather did take 20 months off and called it "retirement", and we know he was taking the time off to heal, but that does not negate his skills or what he has accomplished.

If you don't wanna see these two fight, you are crazy.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 02:54 AM
LOL, I agree with him on a few points to a certain degree, but hands down, Pac and Mayweather are the best p4p boxers on the planet and there's absolutely no reason for them to avoid each other. It would only be excuses by either one of them if this fight doesn't take place. Fans want it, their trainers want it, and I'm sure both of them want it even if they aren't saying it. I believe one way or another it's going to happen.

Mayweather and Pac are both greedy, but with good reason, and there's way too much money involved for both of them to pass it up as there's going to be more than enough for each fighter. The DLH/Mayweather purse was 80 million and I have no doubt in my mind the purse would be surpassed with this and each fighter would make 50 million each. No way they would pass this up!

I don't see how anybody could try and make a case as to why these two should NOT fight and it not be considered pure and utter comedy.

Yeah, Floyd left for a bit, but that don't change what he's done and who he is. The only person Floyd could have fought that made sense right before his retirement was Cotto. You can say Mosley, but Mosley had just lost to Cotto. However, fighting Cotto at that time would have proven nothing extra, and even though Cotto is more known NOW, it wasn't anywhere near the type of draws that Floyd had with Oscar and Ricky. Floyd also needed time off to heal his hands, and he really felt like he had nothing left to prove. It is what it is.

Then Manny decided to come up in weight and the whole world jumped on board with Pac-Mania after seeing him follow in Floyd's place and beat the two other biggest names in the sport. Pac fought Oscar and Ricky for the same reasons Floyd did. Cotto just ended up becoming the unavoidable problem that had to be dealt with sooner or later. I mean, who would really want to see Cotto vs Mayweather right now? Who else is there? Mosley? Margarito? Those guys have lost a lot of their luster.

Now, there is Paul Williams, but that guy is a friggin giant compared to everybody else at welterweight. He needs to be fighting at middleweight. He is a perfect example of size making a difference but not because of a few extra pounds, just because of his height and reach advantage over almost everybody else at welterweight. He is also still very unknown and needs to get more exposure anyway.

logrus
11-16-2009, 03:20 AM
There is no amount of anti-Floyd venom you can spew that would ever be enough for anybody with a working brain to agree with you that we should not see this fight. You have successfully crossed over into the realm of foolishness. Next you will be telling us how Bush planned 9/11.

What the heck is a "4 out of 5 Manny"? Really, you are so full of hate for Floyd that you can't even make sense of your points. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should Google the incident, seeing as how you know enough to try and bash Floyd, but don't know enough to admit that the contract was ALWAYS for 147. You are right, Floyd had no intention of coming down, but if you think that the weight issue actually played a part in the performance you are crazy. Just like the De La Hoya vs Pacquiao fight, Pacquiao was coming up in weight anyway because he ran out of people to fight so it's not like it mattered. He didn't HAVE to make DLH come down, and it's no secret that Oscar looked drained from the cut. However, it wouldn't have mattered because Oscar is just washed up in general and Pac was going to beat him either way in my opinion. The point is, it's stupid to sit and complain about weight issues when the skill set of the victorious boxer is so much better than the other guy's in the first place. The weights typically make only a small difference, if any at all. People try to use weight issues to build their cases for or against a certain fighter all the time and 9 times out of 10, the points they make are just stupid. I love how you say "2 weight classes" as if we are talking about 15 pounds per class like in MMA. How many weight classes did Mayweather come down? ZERO, because he has been fighting at around 147 for almost 5 years. Marquez issued the challenge, Marquez was number 2 p4p, and Floyd beat his ass. Deal with it. What's the point of ranking guys P4P if people are just gonna cry about a 5 to 7 pound difference when they actually fight?

The only thing that wasn't fair about Floyd's victory over Marquez was how vastly superior Mayweather is in terms of skill. Also, lest you fail to mention that that MANY people feel Marquez actually beat Pac in their last fight which was in 2008, not like it was that long ago. Yeah, Mayweather did take 20 months off and called it "retirement", and we know he was taking the time off to heal, but that does not negate his skills or what he has accomplished.

If you don't wanna see these two fight, you are crazy.

It didn't look to me like Oscar was affected by the cut. To be honest it look like the same old Oscar who couldn't handle fights going deep into the rounds besides Manny looked a little bit winded in that fight too like the jump did effect him even though the jump was small. Weight does play a factor on a fighter and it plays a factor on the fighter opponent as well. To say it has no bearing a fight is just as silly.

Yeah many people felt Marq won, I had Pac barely squeezing by in their second fight I think the knockdown in round 2 persuaded the judges. Then again I don't see how anyone was surprised about the decision seeing as the first fight was controversial too.

I don't like FLoyd I never really have though, yeah their were a few times I cheered him on because I really hated the guy he was fighting. Its just everything about him ands it been an ongoing thing.

An I still wont google it cause I am tired of all the Floyd stories as is. He retired cause of injuries, he was bored and nobody was worth figting, he wanted a new carrier. He came back cause he was broke, had the itch was healthy, his other avenue faltered. The contract thing was a cluster F@#$ of different things and I really don't know the 100% story.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 03:34 AM
Thought people mihgt be interested in the Freddie Roach "Day After" interview. The talking and head games are on, lol

http://www.8countnews.com/news/129/ARTICLE/2065/2009-11-15.html

Freddie Roach Interview: The Day After

November 15th, 2009

The legendary Freddie Roach returns home to 8CountNews and shares his thoughts on Manny Pacquiao's spectacular performance over Miguel Cotto. Roach breaks down the fight, and shares his thoughts on the entire experience. Roach also lets it be known that a run at the 154 pound title is not out of the question. Of course he also sets his sights on Floyd Mayweather Jr, a fight that the entire boxing world wants to see. Roach said that they would offer Mayweather a 60/40 split, however he says that there is always room for some negotiations on that.

Freddie admits that he was a bit nervous at times when Manny Pacquiao got up on the ropes, but said that it was alright as long as their was a reason for it. The legendary boxing trainer also informs us that Manny hurt his hand a little bit, and that he had to have his ear drained after the fight. Don't miss what else the great Freddie Roach had to say in this exclusive 8CountNews interview. (Podcast available)


8CN - Freddie thanks for joining us.

FR - Thanks for having me.

8CN - Alright, let's get right into this thing. It was an unbelievable performance by Manny Pacquiao. What are your thoughts on Manny's performance, and where does he rank amongst the all time greats now?

FR - Well it was a great performance. We had a little bit of a change in the game-plan in the beginning, he decided to get on the ropes a little bit and test Cotto's power. He had me a little worried in the beginning, but once he hit his rhythm he made it easy. He ranks in the top 10 all time, seven world titles? That's not going to happen again in many years.

8CN - How do you process this whole ride? I know you told me that he was going to be good, but did you think that he would be this good?

FR - No, he was just 122lbs when we met and we won the title a month later. Who would have known that we would be fighting for the welterweight title one day? I would have told you that you were crazy. Now we are talking about 154, and you know what? We can beat Yuri Foreman and get his title.

8CN - You always got something new for me. You're telling me that you guys are thinking about going up to 154 and going after that title?

FR - Yuri won the title last night, and we are talking about it.

8CN - Obviously a Yuri Foreman fight doesn't pay like a Mayweather fight. We'll get into that later though, I noticed that Cotto changed up his approach once he tasted Manny's power. There were a few dimensions in this fight huh?

FR - Good fighters make adjustments, Manny put himself on the ropes and we worked on that. Cotto was much smarter than I thought, he made the right moves. After the first knockdown though, the fight was ours.

8CN - Emanuel Steward told me the same thing. Cotto looked fast in the fight, did that surprise you? Were you nervous at all?

FR - He was much faster than I expected, and I tell you what, he caught Manny a few times and got his attention. He caught Manny coming off of the ropes with a left uppercut. By the 9th round Cotto was in survival mode, but when a fighter runs a corner and the camp that's a problem. I thought the corner should have stopped the fight. They shouldn't have let him take that beating.

8CN - It looked to me right before the end of the fight that Manny was asking the referee to stop the fight. You were telling Manny in the corner to finish him. Is Manny more compassionate than you are?

FR - We have Mayweather negotiations right around the corner, so the knockout was necessary. People wanted the referee to stop the fight, I told Manny, "You stop the fight. You go throw punches and don't let this guy off of the hook." He took his foot off of the pedal for awhile, so I told him to get out there and knock this guy out.

8CN - OK, so this win sets up a possible fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr. It's going to come down to money, and who settles for what. Do you think this fight will get done?

FR - I think it will get done, I mean where is Mayweather going to go? What's he going to do, fight the winner of Berto vs Mosley? He doesn't want that either, he wants to make money also, and so does Manny Pacquiao. We will offer him a 60/40 split.

8CN - If Floyd doesn't settle on a 60/40 split, will you guys move at all?

FR - There is always room for negotiations, of course we are the draw. With the PPV numbers we should get more than 55 at least.

8CN - In Floyd's defense, he sells a lot of PPV's himself.

FR - Well they almost reached a million for the first time in his life in his last fight, and if the numbers are correct most of those buys came from Latin America.

8CN - Let's talk about the match up between Manny and Floyd. How do you see that fight playing out?

FR - Well were not worried about his punching power, because he doesn't have any. But he is fast, but we are fast enough to deal with that. We have better foot work, and he doesn't like to engage too much. We will break him down like we did Cotto. He poses more of a problem with his speed. If he lays on the ropes and rolls his shoulder, and all of that bull****, we will eat him up.

8CN - Manny's ear was bleeding, and he had it bandaged up after the fight. Can you update us on Manny's health?

FR - They had to drain it, it was a little swollen from the blood getting in there. We did it to prevent cauliflower ear, it's just a precautionary step. He hurt his hand a little bit, he's a little sore but it was a tough fight.

8CN - What are your thoughts on Miguel Cotto? He's a class act.

FR - Great guy, great performance. He gave it 100 percent, he came to fight. I told Manny that the only time he will hit you is when you are flat footed. When Manny went flat footed, Miguel started doing better in the fight with the jab and the straight punches. He fought a much better fight than I though he would. We talked to him after the fight, and he's quite a gentleman.

8CN - How's Manny feeling about this whole experience?

FR - Terrific, he was in control of the fight for the whole time. He knew what he was doing in there. He got on the ropes a few times, but he knew what he was doing and I can accept that. As long as he had a reason to be on the ropes I am OK with it. If it's just to waste time, then don't be there. I give Manny an A+ for his performance. It was a great win.

8CN - Can you give us an update on Z Gorres?

FR - They tell me that he's doing better. He's in guarded condition now, and he's heading in the right direction. It is a sad moment, he's a great guy. When you fight, you know the risk that we are taking. We do choose it, it's a shame these things happen, but they do.

8CN - Do you have any closing thoughts for the Filipino fans and the boxing fans around the world?

FR - Thanks for all of your support. We just had Mass with Manny and 1,500 people showed up for that. Thanks for all your support, and we will see you soon.

I agree with Roach's analysis that Pac would end up chasing Floyd the whole fight and Floyd would run the whole fight and try to win on points. Basically, it'd be Pac going for the KO/TKO and Floyd just trying to survive and winning by the CompuStrike scoring. It'll be the world's best offense going against the world's best defense. I have no doubts that Pac would mess him up on the ropes. No way Mayweather could dodge the barrage of punches that Pac gets to throwing IMO.

I just hope it happens next fight for both fighters rather than Pac going after Yuri's belt at 154. Roach is right, Pac and Mayweather both love money and it'd be stupid on both fighters to try to price each other out of the fight.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 03:48 AM
It didn't look to me like Oscar was affected by the cut. To be honest it look like the same old Oscar who couldn't handle fights going deep into the rounds besides Manny looked a little bit winded in that fight too like the jump did effect him even though the jump was small. Weight does play a factor on a fighter and it plays a factor on the fighter opponent as well. To say it has no bearing a fight is just as silly.

Yeah many people felt Marq won, I had Pac barely squeezing by in their second fight I think the knockdown in round 2 persuaded the judges. Then again I don't see how anyone was surprised about the decision seeing as the first fight was controversial too.

I don't like FLoyd I never really have though, yeah their were a few times I cheered him on because I really hated the guy he was fighting. Its just everything about him ands it been an ongoing thing.

An I still wont google it cause I am tired of all the Floyd stories as is. He retired cause of injuries, he was bored and nobody was worth figting, he wanted a new carrier. He came back cause he was broke, had the itch was healthy, his other avenue faltered. The contract thing was a cluster F@#$ of different things and I really don't know the 100% story.

I didn't say it played NO factor, but it's not as much as people try to make it seem when they are using weight to discredit somebody they don't like.

I know you don't like the guy, and that's fine. As I have told Rock many times, I like Floyd, but he's not even my favorite fighter. I just don't buy into all the crap that a lot of writers like to spew about him in order get more page views for their article. Like saying Floyd was broke. That's nonsense. He may have had some some things that didn't pan out for him, but he still had and has plenty of money. The IRS bill is actually a common thing that happens to people in his position. It doesn't always mean they are broke. He may not have handled all his money in the wisest ways, but with marketing deals and other endorsements he had, the guy has not really been close to being broke. That's like Michael Jackson, he had 300 million dollars in debts when he died but every financial analyst in the media that looked over his known finances agreed that his estate was "liquid" (meaning he was still worth way more than that).

Floyd is a controversial guy and can be an easy target. These writers know that they can rile up the haters by writing a negative piece on Floyd, and it gets them attention. Even if they skew the facts from time to time. The truth is that contract was always for 147, and I am pretty sure that me and Rockdawg discussed at length in previous threads. I said exactly what you said when people tried to claim he didn't "make weight". Floyd never intended on coming down very much. The money was just to appease JMM's people, but it's them who wanted the fight in the first place.

Still, honestly Logrus, how can you not want to see this fight?

J.B.
11-16-2009, 04:27 AM
Thought people mihgt be interested in the Freddie Roach "Day After" interview. The talking and head games are on, lol

http://www.8countnews.com/news/129/ARTICLE/2065/2009-11-15.html



I agree with Roach's analysis that Pac would end up chasing Floyd the whole fight and Floyd would run the whole fight and try to win on points. Basically, it'd be Pac going for the KO/TKO and Floyd just trying to survive and winning by the CompuStrike scoring. It'll be the world's best offense going against the world's best defense. I have no doubts that Pac would mess him up on the ropes. No way Mayweather could dodge the barrage of punches that Pac gets to throwing IMO.

I just hope it happens next fight for both fighters rather than Pac going after Yuri's belt at 154. Roach is right, Pac and Mayweather both love money and it'd be stupid on both fighters to try to price each other out of the fight.

It's funny how Roach calls the shoulder roll "bulls**t". That just sounds like sour grapes because he knows that it is a highly effective technique that only a handful of fighters are able to utilize very well, and nobody does it better than Floyd. I also think it's a bit questionable as to who really has the better footwork.

Floyd will not give them 60%, and he shouldn't. Roach knows that, but he is just saying what he has to say. Richard Schaefer already said in the last link I posted that Floyd wants at least $15 million. Who knows though, maybe Floyd will settle in the interest of making the fight happen sooner rather than later. Who knows?

If Mosley wins against Berto, Floyd could go fight him and keep his name fresh in peoples minds. If he won that, the leverage could swing full force back into his favor. Pac has said in other interviews that he doesn't think his frame can handle being any bigger than 145, so I think the Yuri Foreman talk is just BS to make it seem like they don't need Floyd. If Floyd shut down Mosley, who is left for Manny to fight? Nobody.

This is the fight, and it will happen.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 04:47 AM
Watch Boxing much?

Guess not...

Seriously, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Pacman moved up in weight because there is nobody for him to fight at the lower weight classes. In case you forgot, to which you probably never knew in the first place, Mayweather came up in weight for years. Floyd came up in weight to fight De La Hoya but Manny made DLH come down in weight. Floyd has not ducked anybody, he has taken the best fights for him at this and pretty much every stage of his career. You could make an argument that Floyd could have already fought Shane Mosley, but you can make that argument about ANY fighter at one point or another, it's stupid. If Oscar would have retired before fighting Floyd, you can guarantee that Floyd would have already fought Cotto, Mosley, or both. When Floyd came back out of retirement JMM challenged him, not the other way around, and JMM was the number 2 ranked p4p fighter by most analysts.

Saying Floyd runs away is a mindset that is born from meatheadedness and a lack of understanding of the sport. Also, I don't see how you can actually try to make the comparison between KO% after I already did that in this thread. Floyd has a 62% KO rating and Manny has a 68%, but Manny has 14 more fights so you can't really say it's that much better. Guess you forgot to mention that Manny has been KO'd twice (once by jab) and has fought two draws. Yeah, Manny is hot right now, but saying he is better based on getting a KO when Floyd got a TKO or any other crap like that is utter nonsense. It is the equivalent of MMA math and it's retarded.

I like Manny, I think he's a great fighter and I think the fight with Floyd would be huge and a great fight to boot. It just makes me wanna puke when I see people try to make blind points that they don't really have much insight on just because they don't like a person. Go watch the sport more, then come back and talk that crap.

I posted facts, you cannot counter them.
Bring up percentages and number of fights, lets talk about whats relivent,
the last 4 or 5 fights. Pacman is putting guys away, Mayweather is NOT.

Yes Pacman has lost, when you fight to finish, you take chances.
This is the same in MMA or boxing.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 04:50 AM
Oh please...

Your boy just won, but you are spending more time talking about Floyd than about Pac....:rolleyes:

I think the fight will happen, regardless of your biased beliefs.

Remember, you are a Pac nuthugger and I'm nuthugger of facts, not of Floyd. You just think I'm a Floyd nuthugger because I don't trash the guy at every opportunity like you and the rest of the haters.


Its funny, you're a Mayweather freak with no reason to be lol,
yeah yeah we know you love him because he beat the big show,
but he ducks people, fights for the wrong reasons and is a complete ass.
Get over it, and get over yourself.

You can't say anything good about the guy other than his record,
(That is COMPLETELY PADDED) and that he makes money lol

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 05:34 AM
It's funny how Roach calls the shoulder roll "bulls**t". That just sounds like sour grapes because he knows that it is a highly effective technique that only a handful of fighters are able to utilize very well, and nobody does it better than Floyd. I also think it's a bit questionable as to who really has the better footwork.

Floyd will not give them 60%, and he shouldn't. Roach knows that, but he is just saying what he has to say. Richard Schaefer already said in the last link I posted that Floyd wants at least $15 million. Who knows though, maybe Floyd will settle in the interest of making the fight happen sooner rather than later. Who knows?

If Mosley wins against Berto, Floyd could go fight him and keep his name fresh in peoples minds. If he won that, the leverage could swing full force back into his favor. Pac has said in other interviews that he doesn't think his frame can handle being any bigger than 145, so I think the Yuri Foreman talk is just BS to make it seem like they don't need Floyd. If Floyd shut down Mosley, who is left for Manny to fight? Nobody.

This is the fight, and it will happen.
I don't think Roach is necessarily calling it an ineffective technique, obviously it isn't and he knows it. I think Roach is merely predicting that it won't work against Manny's endless high-pressure offense and if that's what he's saying, I'm with that 100%. Like in my previous post, it's the best offense in the world against the best defense in the world. I think Mayweather's style, although incredible, is boring, but he would have to fight against Pac because Pac will be in his face all night. I don't think Mayweather could survive the inevitable barrage of power punches Manny will throw at him, but I could be wrong so we'll see. However you stack it, it's an incredible matchup!

See, and that's why boxing is just weird. Instead of making the fight happen, there's all that "if/then" stuff going on. I wish they would just make the fights. I'm not a fan of boxing politics, lol, but that's how it is. :laugh:

logrus
11-16-2009, 05:37 AM
I didn't say it played NO factor, but it's not as much as people try to make it seem when they are using weight to discredit somebody they don't like.

I know you don't like the guy, and that's fine. As I have told Rock many times, I like Floyd, but he's not even my favorite fighter. I just don't buy into all the crap that a lot of writers like to spew about him in order get more page views for their article. Like saying Floyd was broke. That's nonsense. He may have had some some things that didn't pan out for him, but he still had and has plenty of money. The IRS bill is actually a common thing that happens to people in his position. It doesn't always mean they are broke. He may not have handled all his money in the wisest ways, but with marketing deals and other endorsements he had, the guy has not really been close to being broke. That's like Michael Jackson, he had 300 million dollars in debts when he died but every financial analyst in the media that looked over his known finances agreed that his estate was "liquid" (meaning he was still worth way more than that).

Floyd is a controversial guy and can be an easy target. These writers know that they can rile up the haters by writing a negative piece on Floyd, and it gets them attention. Even if they skew the facts from time to time. The truth is that contract was always for 147, and I am pretty sure that me and Rockdawg discussed at length in previous threads. I said exactly what you said when people tried to claim he didn't "make weight". Floyd never intended on coming down very much. The money was just to appease JMM's people, but it's them who wanted the fight in the first place.

Still, honestly Logrus, how can you not want to see this fight?

I've moved up in weight in a tournament, over time when doing it is does get easier, but when its your first encounter it you do have issues, your speed, movements, and the general pace your so accustomed to going at are greatly affected. Thats just the toll it takes out on you, thats not even talking about all the bennifets the other guy has.

I don't buy into any of the crap the writers write since its all about opinion and shock value. My general distaste for the guy has always come from him in general. While I do think is style is very sound I feel its relied to heavily on points and compu score. Just watching the fights of his I hear all the time bout his high accuracy but when you look at it hes not throwing anything to set something up later and hes not throwing to lure the guy into a false sense of secuirity, he merely countering. Thats my biggest annoynce when watching his fights atleast.

I read a few different articles bout the contract so who knows. it was 144 but it wasnt Marq got more money for a certain weight and it went on about filings and late filings and then begging for a later filing that never was. So I kinda just disregarded it. I really don't think Marq knew how big a factor the extra weight both ways was going to factor, I also feel Marq took that fight thinking Floyd had lost something meanwhile he was cooming off a controversial loss to Pac who many felt was the P4P best.Id take that fight lol.

For me I want to see fighters going at it cause they want to prove they are the very best or want to be known as the champ. I don't see that with PBF, I see a man who just wants to cash in on another Oscar type payday then head back for the hills Sure I know Manny want the payday too, but I also know Manny wants to be known as the very best thus why he continues to move up in weight to fight the very best once the division is cleared and probably why he is considering another jump.

logrus
11-16-2009, 05:38 AM
I don't think Roach is necessarily calling it an ineffective technique, obviously it isn't and he knows it. I think Roach is merely predicting that it won't work against Manny's endless high-pressure offense and if that's what he's saying, I'm with that 100%. Like in my previous post, it's the best offense in the world against the best defense in the world. I think Mayweather's style, although incredible, is boring, but he would have to fight against Pac because Pac will be in his face all night. I don't think Mayweather could survive the inevitable barrage of power punches Manny will throw at him, but I could be wrong so we'll see. However you stack it, it's an incredible matchup!

See, and that's why boxing is just weird. Instead of making the fight happen, there's all that "if/then" stuff going on. I wish they would just make the fights. I'm not a fan of boxing politics, lol, but that's how it is. :laugh:

but if he does survive it he will win cause Compubox has his accuracy higher then Mannys.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 06:02 AM
but if he does survive it he will win cause Compubox has his accuracy higher then Mannys.
Yeah, since aggressiveness isn't part of the boxing criteria when making a decision, Pac has to score the KO/TKO to get the victory, while Mayweather just merely has to survive and win the victory by points.

Pac is the king of landing/throwing power punches and Mayweather is the king of punching accuracy and making others miss. They both present a very real danger to each other.

IMO, Cotto couldn't get the KO and Pac even gave Cotto some shots to test his power, so Mayweather won't be able to KO Pac. It's Pac chasing Mayweather for the KO/TKO and Mayweather defending the onslaught. It's an intriguing matchup.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 06:08 AM
Hope the final prediction becomes true so Mayweather can suck it. :laugh:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content6234.html

CABLE COMPANIES OVERWHELMED WITH ORDERS FOR PACQUIAO VS. COTTO

We've never had this experience with so many people ordering a fight. This must be a big, big fight," commented a local New Jersey Comcast cable operator hours before Saturday's pay-per-view clash between Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto. After thousands of fans were having difficulties ordering the bout with their remote control, they promptly flooded the phone lines with complaints.

"We're sorry. We are just so overwhelmed with people trying to order this fight. So many people are trying to order it from their remote controls that it locked up the computer. It was processing so many orders, the computer was overwhelmed," she continued, politely explaining that the order would have to be manually processed. Although the incident occurred in a local market, it's a good indication that pay-per-view buys for the Pacquiao-Cotto bout will far exceed expectations. Preliminary results are expected to be in by Tuesday, but I'll go out on a limb and say we're looking a minimum of 1.5 million pay-per-view buys.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 06:11 AM
Its funny, you're a Mayweather freak with no reason to be lol,
yeah yeah we know you love him because he beat the big show,
but he ducks people, fights for the wrong reasons and is a complete ass.
Get over it, and get over yourself.

What's funny is you obviously lack the ability to read and comprehend the rebuttals to your "facts", as well as lack the ability to tastefully debate the subject.

1. Spare me your wit with the WWE comments. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

2. Floyd has done what every fighter at the top has done and there is always people who claim a guy ducked this guy or that guy. That argument is about as deep as a puddle of water and I could literally find a way to make that claim about almost every big name fighter ever.

3. The "right" and "wrong" reasons to fight is something that lies in the eye of the beholder.

4. You're being a complete ass.

All of your comments are purely negative with very little base to them. "Mayweather is a sissy", "he ducks people", "he is a joke". Seriously, you sound ridiculous. You say you "post facts" but then you ignore every rebuttal and go right back to personal attacks. Granted, I may come off very astute in my opinions on the sport of Boxing, but it's nothing personal, and there is no need to take it there. So from here lets just squash the BS and talk Boxing.


You can't say anything good about the guy other than his record,
(That is COMPLETELY PADDED) and that he makes money lol

No, YOU can't say anything good about him because you don't like him. That's not my problem. I don't really care if you or anybody else don't like Floyd because of his character, that is entirely your opinion. However, when you try to spin the truth, or ignore the truth, about events in the sport of Boxing, I am going to call it out. Using flawed logic to discredit a fighter you don't like personally may win over other fellow people who also dislike that fighter, but it cannot change the facts or take away any of their accomplishments.

Floyd is a proven entity and an extremely gifted fighter that has fought a slew of top competition and was an extremely talented as an amateur as well. He was robbed at the Olympics, and probably would have won a gold medal for our country. He is a fourth generation fighter who is without a doubt the fastest and best defensive fighter of this generation. He hands out food to the homeless. So yeah, there is a lot of good to be said about Floyd, but you just don't care to hear it.

For the record, yeah, I did say some things about Floyd beating Manny a few pages back. But that was while I was posting PBP of the fight and I was really just trying to give Rockdawg some crap, not trying to seriously discredit Pacquiao. I have stated numerous times that I think it would be a great fight and that I like both fighters.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 06:15 AM
...I was posting PBP of the fight and I was really just trying to give Rockdawg some crap...
LOL, which is why my first post was mostly about Floyd rather than the results of the fight that night. My adrenaline was still up and you got me worked up, lol

Anyways, I'm goin' to sleep. Sweet dreams!

J.B.
11-16-2009, 06:18 AM
Hope the final prediction becomes true so Mayweather can suck it. :laugh:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content6234.html

I hope that number is true too because it means more people are actually tuning in to the sport now.

That would certainly give Pac some leverage in negotiations, at least as it stands now. However, I think it's also fair to say that the whole Pacquiao/Mayweather feud in the press has fueled most of this spike we have seen recently. Both men deserve credit.

A year ago, heck even six months ago, I would have laughed at the idea just based on the numbers, but I think it's fair to say this fight needs to be a 50/50 split, possibly with a 10% win bonus or something to that effect. Not to mention other rights and BS that would need to be discussed.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 06:19 AM
LOL, which is why my first post was mostly about Floyd rather than the results of the fight that night. My adrenaline was still up and you got me worked up, lol

Anyways, I'm goin' to sleep. Sweet dreams!

Yeah, I guess I did open the door on that one...

I'll admit, I'd had a few beers, lol

J.B.
11-16-2009, 06:33 AM
For me I want to see fighters going at it cause they want to prove they are the very best or want to be known as the champ. I don't see that with PBF, I see a man who just wants to cash in on another Oscar type payday then head back for the hills Sure I know Manny want the payday too, but I also know Manny wants to be known as the very best thus why he continues to move up in weight to fight the very best once the division is cleared and probably why he is considering another jump.

See, that's just it. I do think that Floyd cares about that, but he also cares about the money, and probably a little more about the money. :laugh:

Seriously, every man has pride, especially when you are at the highest levels of your profession. Remember, he could have fought Oscar in the rematch and cashed in big time, but he declined. I get it though, and I understand why a lot of people don't like his style. Personally, I think it's incredible what he has been able to do with his technique over the years. It might not be what everybody likes, but it's still a part of the game.

Oh, and I am pretty skeptical about Manny moving up again right now. He's looking to get paid. He's in movies, he's got a band. Moving up to fight Foreman would prove nothing right now, he needs and wants that Mayweather fight.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 06:34 AM
What's funny is you obviously lack the ability to read and comprehend the rebuttals to your "facts", as well as lack the ability to tastefully debate the subject.

1. Spare me your wit with the WWE comments. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

2. Floyd has done what every fighter at the top has done and there is always people who claim a guy ducked this guy or that guy. That argument is about as deep as a puddle of water and I could literally find a way to make that claim about almost every big name fighter ever.

3. The "right" and "wrong" reasons to fight is something that lies in the eye of the beholder.

4. You're being a complete ass.

All of your comments are purely negative with very little base to them. "Mayweather is a sissy", "he ducks people", "he is a joke". Seriously, you sound ridiculous. You say you "post facts" but then you ignore every rebuttal and go right back to personal attacks. Granted, I may come off very astute in my opinions on the sport of Boxing, but it's nothing personal, and there is no need to take it there. So from here lets just squash the BS and talk Boxing.


Using flawed logic to discredit a fighter you don't like personally may win over other fellow people who also dislike that fighter, but it cannot change the facts or take away any of their accomplishments.



You've said one thing right, I don't like Mayweather.
He lacks finishing skills, and power.
He also has a loud mouth. Whats to like?

1. The WWE comment has everything to do with it,
Mayweather only does things for personal gain, its proof.

2. Flloyd has NOT done what ever fighter at the top has done, sorry.

3. No, fighting just to hear your own name is never the right reason.

4. You're defending a complete ass lol
I'm actually not, you just go on and on about Flloyd like you slept at his house last night.
Its insane.

What flawed logic have I used?
In the last 5 fights how many has he finished?
How many were bigger fighters?
Now ask those SAME questions about Pacman.
Nobody is saying Flloyd hasn't won the fights he has won,
but he hasn't been impressive and he isn't taking the toughest fights.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 06:34 AM
but if he does survive it he will win cause Compubox has his accuracy higher then Mannys.

CompuBox does not judge the fights

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 06:42 AM
Watch, Flloyd will find a way out of fighting Pacman.
His fans will make excuses, and we'll all be disappointed.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 07:09 AM
You've said one thing right, I don't like Mayweather.
He lacks finishing skills, and power.
He also has a loud mouth. Whats to like?

1. The WWE comment has everything to do with it,
Mayweather only does things for personal gain, its proof.

2. Flloyd has NOT done what ever fighter at the top has done, sorry.

3. No, fighting just to hear your own name is never the right reason.

4. You're defending a complete ass lol
I'm actually not, you just go on and on about Flloyd like you slept at his house last night.
Its insane.

What flawed logic have I used?
In the last 5 fights how many has he finished?
How many were bigger fighters?
Now ask those SAME questions about Pacman.
Nobody is saying Flloyd hasn't won the fights he has won,
but he hasn't been impressive and he isn't taking the toughest fights.

Your point is moot and you are just going to be hater.

I'm not going go back and forth with personal attacks. You are clearly unable debate my rebuttals rationally and look at the bigger picture. You say I am defending a complete ass, but I am really just defending the record of events. Your personal dislike for Floyd does not change facts, and it does not make him a joke when it comes to his skills as a boxer.

Oh, "Mayweather only does things for personal gain", give me a break. Who the hell says that? Like it's so wrong to make money. :rolleyes:
Ya know Pacquiao is a movie star and has a band that he played with right after the fight with Cotto, right? Guess we better stone him too. :wacko:


You just say NO without actually addressing the points and think that makes you right. Sorry, but you can't just say look at the last 5 fights and not put things into context. Sure, it's fair to say Manny has been hot and looked more impressive in some respects, but Floyd has also looked impressive and HAS fought top fighters. You can deny it all you want, but you are wrong.

I can make a very valid argument that over the span of their careers Floyd has actually fought more top competition than Manny. You tried to use a small amount of data to discredit everything about Floyd.

Sorry, that's flawed logic. Saying he lacks finishing skills is flawed logic when he has a 62% KO rating. Saying he ducks fighters is flawed logic when you go back over the time line of events and see how things have played out. Denying that other top fighters get the same claims is also flawed logic. Saying Floyd has not been impressive in his last 5 fights is flawed logic. Ignoring every positive point I made in my last post and responding with more personal attacks at me was also flawed logic.

If you wanna talk about the sport rationally, that's fine, but quit making it personal.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 07:21 AM
Your point is moot and you are just going to be hater.

Your personal dislike for Floyd does not change facts, and it does not make him a joke when it comes to his skills as a boxer.

Sorry, but you can't just say look at the last 5 fights and not put things into context.

I can make a very valid argument that over the span of their careers Floyd has actually fought more top competition than Manny. You tried to use a small amount of data to discredit everything about Floyd.

Saying he lacks finishing skills is flawed logic when he has a 62% KO rating. Saying he ducks fighters is flawed logic when you go back over the time line of events and see how things have played out. Denying that other top fighters get the same claims is also flawed logic. Saying Floyd has not been impressive in his last 5 fights is flawed logic. Ignoring every positive point I made in my last post and responding with more personal attacks at me was also flawed logic.


I am a hater, again, I dislike fighters who fight to not lose,
and I dislike fighters who don't chase a challenge. lol.

FACT, Flloyd has finished 1 of his last 5.
FACT, Pacman has finished 4 of his last 5.
FACT, Flloyd fights smaller fighters.
FACT, Pacman is fighting bigger fighters.
You keep saying I am not going by the facts, but I am.

The last 3 or 4 years are all that matters in reality when it comes to current fighters.
What you did before that is great for conversation, but irrelivent now.
Same with MMA, that is why when fight fans discuss fighters,
we discuss what you're doing NOW, not what you did in 1999.
So yeah, its fair to only discuss the last 5 fights, more than fair.

Your entire "flawed logic" paragraph is a laugh,
you're talking about a Flloyd Mayweather that does NOT exist,
all you keep saying is look at his entire career or "go back over a timeline"
Those things do not matter,
what you're doing now matters.
and now, he isn't putting guys away, and he isn't taking tough fights.
That is not flawed logic.

Ask any fight fan anywhere, its the last few fights that matter.
He hasn't finished two fights in a row since 2005.
7 fights ago.
How is that relivent to him today?
What is relivent today, are the 4 out of 5 snooze fest decisions he has been in in the last 4 years.
That is why I say he lacks finishing power,
because, in the last 4 years, he HAS.
Same with any combat sport, when somebody goes 4 years without showing a skill,
well we start to realize they've probably lost it.
Just because I did something once, doesn't mean I can do it forever.
Make sense? Perfect logic.
In the fight game only what you can continue to do is what matters,
Flloyd has NOT continued to put guys away, and has NOT continued to take the tough fights.

So talk about his past as much as you want,
thats then, this is now.
and NOW he goes to decision more often than not,
and NOW he doesn't take the toughest fights.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 07:38 AM
For the record, there is only one "L" Floyd and your knowledge of boxing is what's laughable.

You can try and harp on the ONE point you think you have about the last 5 fights, but it does not make Floyd any less of fighter in the sport of Boxing just because you didn't like how he won. So what, you don't like how Floyd fights, you don't like his attitude, who cares? Just because Floyd has only finished 1 of his last 5 fights does not mean he was not dominant in all the other fights, and it don't mean he is a "joke" in the sport. There is nothing wrong with a defensive style that is effective and Floyd brings that. Saying things like "he fights not to lose" is silly because everybody fights not to lose. He knows his skills and he uses them well. It's easy to say he does not engage when you watch him setting up other looks and angles and making his opponent miss, but his accuracy is stellar and he still threw almost 500 punches against Marquez and landed almost 60%. Sure, Pac threw a crazy 780 punches against Cotto, but he only landed about 43%. Pac's thing is to come at you with a barrage of punches, Floyd's is to pick his shots and try to time them out more, thus being more accurate. Of course that leaves Pac more open to making a mistake, but it also gives him a higher KO rating. It's simply a matter of style, and we will get to see who's style will win. Pac is great at what he does and it's really clicking for him lately, but his style is hard to sustain for a long period of time in Boxing, it's why his hands are so hurt today. The question will be, can Floyd weather that storm and force Manny to keep missing or make a mistake? If Floyd can force Manny to miss, and not get clipped too many times by power shots when Manny is on the offensive, he should be able to easily out box Pac and get the victory. Remember, it was only back in 2008 when Manny Pacquiao won by controversial decision over Juan Manuel Marquez, and in that fight he only landed 157 shots, or about 25% of his 619 punches. Marquez hit Pacquiao 172 times out of 511 punches thrown. When Marquez fought Mayweather he threw 589 punches, but only landed 69, or 12%, of them against Floyd. Those are some interesting numbers when you look at it, and very telling. We also know that Manny can be knocked out, so really ANYTHING can happen in this fight. That's why it's important to have context when trying to make a point, because it's a lot deeper than just how many knockouts you have in your last 5 fights.

If you don't wanna hear about looking back at the man's career than maybe you should stop trying to discredit everything he has done. The more you talk, the clearer it is to see that you have a limited scope of understanding when it comes to boxing and everything that is a part of the sport. Just because Floyd has only finished one of his last 5 does not take away from how dangerous he is and how much he has still continued to improve on his already stellar defense since coming up to 147. Just because you don't respect his style it don't make him less of a fighter. It's easy to say Pacquiao is fighting "bigger" fighters because Pac is only 5 foot 6 inches tall and came way up in weight, but Floyd has been fighting at 147 now for a while and before that he was fighting down at 130, so he has come up and fought bigger fighters too, and YES that does matter. The competition since he came to 147 has not been much smaller than him with the exception of Marquez, and Marquez was the one who challenged Floyd and Marquez was ranked number 2 P4P, that is a fact. Also, Oscar was bigger than Floyd. Hatton had already had fights at Welterweight, and Baldomir fought at 147 and BIGGER his whole career. Zab Judah had been a Welter since 2004. So these are not "smaller" guys. You also gotta remember that at this level, we are talking about guys fighting P4P you are going to have some slight differences in size.

It will be funny to hear what excuses you make when he does fight Manny, and then if he wins I'm sure you will find a way to say it was BS.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 09:32 AM
1. your knowledge of boxing is what's laughable.

2. Saying things like "he fights not to lose" is silly because everybody fights not to lose.

3. It's simply a matter of style, and we will get to see who's style will win.

4. The question will be, can Floyd weather that storm and force Manny to keep missing or make a mistake?

5.If you don't wanna hear about looking back at the man's career than maybe you should stop trying to discredit everything he has done.

1. I never claimed to know more about boxing.
2. NO, not everybody fights to not lose, most people fight to win.
There is a difference, EVERYBODY knows it, don't pretend you don't.
3. it is a matter of styles, Pacman comes to finish, Floyd comes to not lose
4. The question is something more like, can he survive and score enough points to win the decision?
5. I didn't discredit anything he did, at all.
Not once.
I said in the fighting world, only what is recent is relivent.
Its true, you cannot deny it.
Just because you did something 5+ years ago doesn't mean you can do it today,
if you COULD do it, you WOULD be doing it.
Why do you think rankings get UPDATED?
Because fighters change over time, people don't do everything they did at the beginning of their career. It isn't a hard concept to grasp.
When you compare two fighters about to fight, you don't talk about what they did 10 years ago, you talk about what they've done lately, because thats who is going to show up in the fight lol.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:05 AM
1. I never claimed to know more about boxing.
2. NO, not everybody fights to not lose, most people fight to win.
There is a difference, EVERYBODY knows it, don't pretend you don't.
3. it is a matter of styles, Pacman comes to finish, Floyd comes to not lose
4. The question is something more like, can he survive and score enough points to win the decision?
5. I didn't discredit anything he did, at all.
Not once.
I said in the fighting world, only what is recent is relivent.
Its true, you cannot deny it.
Just because you did something 5+ years ago doesn't mean you can do it today,
if you COULD do it, you WOULD be doing it.
Why do you think rankings get UPDATED?
Because fighters change over time, people don't do everything they did at the beginning of their career. It isn't a hard concept to grasp.
When you compare two fighters about to fight, you don't talk about what they did 10 years ago, you talk about what they've done lately, because thats who is going to show up in the fight lol.

1. Well, then don't you think maybe you are a bit unprepared for such an in depth debate on the subject? Is that why you had to take it to personally attacking me?

2. Bulls**t. Fighting not to lose does not mean you are not fighting to win. That is more lame ideology made up by casual fans who only care about seeing the most violent KO's and have little respect for the actual sport of it. Using your speed and reflexes to utilize superior defense is as much a part of the game weather you like it or not. Nobody said you have to like the style, but trying to criticize a fighter for playing to his strengths and being successful is retarded.

3. That's more stupid hater talk, but no substance. Notice how you don't bother to address any of the points I raise but just keep repeating the same drivel. You don't bother to take on any of the more in depth points I have raised.

4. What's your point? Did you not read the synopsis I gave for the fight? If you think I'm wrong about how it will go down, please tell me why.

5.Well then why are you saying his record is completely padded and he ducks fighters and he can't finish fights? Seriously, how long have you been watching the sport?

No s**t you have to compare their recent bodies of work when two fighters are getting ready to fight. But looking over their careers is also a fair thing to do, and you are the one who brought up Floyd's record. You also keep rambling on about the last 5 fights, but the only point you can muster up is that Manny finished more fights. You still have ignored every valid counterpoint I have given you in relation to the last 5 fights, and you have already admitted and proven you don't really know that much about the sport. Believe me, it shows.

You are just such a hater of Floyd you can't stand to see anybody give him props. Well, sorry, but everything I have said is a fact, and Floyd will go down as one of the greatest regardless of what happens, and so will Manny.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I guess I did open the door on that one...

I'll admit, I'd had a few beers, lol
Yeah, it was pretty obvious, lol. Same with me, my adrenaline was still up, I was drunk, and you decided to call me out so yeah, you opened the door on that one, lol

rearnakedchoke
11-16-2009, 02:37 PM
wow .. i am going through this thread and laughing at all the Floyd hate .. i am not the biggest fan of his antics, but i think he is the best fighter out there right now and would beat manny in a fight ... his skills are far superior and no one makes it look as easy has he does .... so he hasn't finished many of his last few fights .. but he doesn't really need to ... and to say his record is padded can't be farther from the truth ... but oh well, if you really hate someone, you can always justify in your head why they suck ..

J.B.
11-16-2009, 02:38 PM
See, and that's why boxing is just weird. Instead of making the fight happen, there's all that "if/then" stuff going on. I wish they would just make the fights. I'm not a fan of boxing politics, lol, but that's how it is. :laugh:

See, I will admit, I am in the minority when it comes to my views on the business end of the sport. Most people think that if the fight makes sense in the rankings it should just automatically happen, and while there is obvious merit to that belief, it's just not a reality in today's world.

It's all about momentum and posturing in order to have more negotiating power over your next fight. It's something that is constant, and it too has become as much a part of the game as punching and blocking. It manifests both in the ring and outside of the ring. It's actually a big part of what makes fights like this one with Manny and Floyd so special. It's more than just a battle over a title belt, or bragging rights. It's about securing their futures as superstars and cementing their legacies in the history of the sweet science. The winner of this fight will no doubt be remembered as the best of this generation, even though it's sure to be argued for years to come regardless of the outcome.

As for the Mosley fight, I sincerely doubt that situation would play out. That little confrontation after the JMM fight was staged by Bernard Hopkins, and every body knows that the Pacquaio fight is where the money is. Not to mention I believe Floyd has a genuine dislike for Mosley after trying to set up the fights with him in the past and he probably wouldn't want to even let him cash in on such a deal at this point. Not to mention, Mosley has lost quite a bit of credibility after the loss to Cotto, and the steroid controversy. He beat Margarito, but Margarito ain't really much IMO, and who knows how long he's was cheating for too after the whole hand-wrap fiasco.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 02:39 PM
Well, here is what Floyd had to say about the Pac/Cotto fight...Perfect example of the posturing I was talking about.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzuHHsZR2o&feature=player_embedded

Jonlion
11-16-2009, 03:59 PM
Well, here is what Floyd had to say about the Pac/Cotto fight...Perfect example of the posturing I was talking about.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzuHHsZR2o&feature=player_embedded

Ha ha I enjoyed that!

Quite liked Floyd in that!

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 07:46 PM
wow .. i am going through this thread and laughing at all the Floyd hate .. i am not the biggest fan of his antics, but i think he is the best fighter out there right now and would beat manny in a fight ... his skills are far superior and no one makes it look as easy has he does .... so he hasn't finished many of his last few fights .. but he doesn't really need to ... and to say his record is padded can't be farther from the truth ... but oh well, if you really hate someone, you can always justify in your head why they suck ..

Well to be fair, no fighter needs to finish fights.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 07:49 PM
Well, here is what Floyd had to say about the Pac/Cotto fight...Perfect example of the posturing I was talking about.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzuHHsZR2o&feature=player_embedded

Exactly why I dislike the guy.
Tries to point out that maybe Pacman doesn't want to fight,
then goes on about how he has nothing to gain from beating him? blahhh

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:04 PM
Exactly why I dislike the guy.
Tries to point out that maybe Pacman doesn't want to fight,
then goes on about how he has nothing to gain from beating him? blahhh

Exactly why you didn't understand anything I said.

Floyd knows Manny is not afraid to fight him. What Floyd was saying is, look at the situation. No matter what happens, it's a lose/lose situation for Floyd, and he is right. There is nothing he can do to satisfy the haters, like you, so even if he beats Pac, people will just say he was supposed to beat him. Floyd then points out that what the haters, like you, wanna see is Floyd lose the fight. Which is exactly what makes Pac NEED this fight. They both need it at this point, but all Floyd was doing in that interview was posturing for leverage.

Let the games begin.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Exactly why you didn't understand anything I said.

Floyd knows Manny is not afraid to fight him. What Floyd was saying is, look at the situation. No matter what happens, it's a lose/lose situation for Floyd, and he is right. There is nothing he can do to satisfy the haters, like you, so even if he beats Pac, people will just say he was supposed to beat him. Floyd then points out that what the haters, like you, wanna see is Floyd lose the fight. Which is exactly what makes Pac NEED this fight. They both need it at this point, but all Floyd was doing in that interview was posturing for leverage.

Let the games begin.

Right, he runs his mouth, blah blah blah.
He can satisfy haters, shut up and take the fight.
It should have happened before, it should happen now, just take the fight.

I don't care who wins, I think boxing is a joke of a sport,
(too corrupt, too many "titles", too many politics, etc...)
but when you have a loudmouth, and a guy who looks like an animal,
they're both huge names and they just need to do it.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Well, here is what Floyd had to say about the Pac/Cotto fight...Perfect example of the posturing I was talking about.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzuHHsZR2o&feature=player_embedded
LOL, yeah, he's posturing whether he wins or loses and virtually covers all methods of win/loss. He's right on almost all accounts, but I don't think anybody would say the fight is boring because anytime Pac is in the ring, it's never boring for anybody, and there's no doubt Pac would force Mayweather to fight him because he couldn't just hang on the ropes for 12 rounds and expect to survive 1000 power punches thrown at him.

There's no doubt negotiations have already begun. Even Pac was quoted as saying, "I'm sure he doesn't want to fight [me]" just last week. It was ongoing before the Cotto/Pac fight had even started.

It'll happen, one way or another, these two are the best of our generation and it will happen and when it does, it's going to be incredible.

Crisco
11-16-2009, 10:16 PM
Exactly why you didn't understand anything I said.

Floyd knows Manny is not afraid to fight him. What Floyd was saying is, look at the situation. No matter what happens, it's a lose/lose situation for Floyd, and he is right. There is nothing he can do to satisfy the haters, like you, so even if he beats Pac, people will just say he was supposed to beat him. Floyd then points out that what the haters, like you, wanna see is Floyd lose the fight. Which is exactly what makes Pac NEED this fight. They both need it at this point, but all Floyd was doing in that interview was posturing for leverage.

Let the games begin.

He should just be a man and ****ing fight.

Too much politics.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:16 PM
for the record, just because I dislike boxing as a sport,
does not mean I do not enjoy watching a lot of boxing matches.
I just don't like where the sport has gone, its sad.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:17 PM
He should just be a man and ****ing fight.

Too much politics.

Exactly.

Sign to fight, period.
man up, he has done wayyyy too much talking.
I can respect Manny, he will fight whoever, just talk to my promoter, make it happen.
Floyd will tell you for days about why this and why that who said this and who said that and blah blah blah.

Crisco
11-16-2009, 10:20 PM
Exactly.

Sign to fight, period.
man up, he has done wayyyy too much talking.
I can respect Manny, he will fight whoever, just talk to my promoter, make it happen.
Floyd will tell you for days about why this and why that who said this and who said that and blah blah blah.

I call foul on Manny for trying to pressure him to come up in weight and put the belt on the line.

That's BS. You don't call a champ out at a different weight class then call him a pussy because he says he wont put his belt up at different weight.


They are both tools in my opinion and I hope they knock eachother out.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:22 PM
Right, he runs his mouth, blah blah blah.
He can satisfy haters, shut up and take the fight.
It should have happened before, it should happen now, just take the fight.

I don't care who wins, I think boxing is a joke of a sport,
(too corrupt, too many "titles", too many politics, etc...)
but when you have a loudmouth, and a guy who looks like an animal,
they're both huge names and they just need to do it.

It should have happened before? :blink:

Further proof you are looking to generate an argument on a topic you know nothing about.

If you don't like Boxing, feel free not to watch and find your way out of this discussion. Nobody cares what you think.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:25 PM
He should just be a man and ****ing fight.

Too much politics.

What makes you think he's not gonna fight?

That's exactly the problem, everybody just says "too much politics, this sucks", but they don't even have a firm understanding on the way things have worked for years, and they don't even bother to try and comprehend it. They just talk s**t like atom and have no actual point of reference but somehow think they're opinion is the only thing that matters.

If you people don't like the sport, don't watch, it's that simple. Let Dana and Joe Silva pick who you see fight, and how much those fighters get paid, or don't get paid, lol.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:30 PM
Exactly.

Sign to fight, period.
man up, he has done wayyyy too much talking.
I can respect Manny, he will fight whoever, just talk to my promoter, make it happen.
Floyd will tell you for days about why this and why that who said this and who said that and blah blah blah.

More proof that you don't really pay attention, yet you think you know what your talking about.

Floyd has given that same response as Manny, numerous times. It's the default answer.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:34 PM
LOL, yeah, he's posturing whether he wins or loses and virtually covers all methods of win/loss. He's right on almost all accounts, but I don't think anybody would say the fight is boring because anytime Pac is in the ring, it's never boring for anybody, and there's no doubt Pac would force Mayweather to fight him because he couldn't just hang on the ropes for 12 rounds and expect to survive 1000 power punches thrown at him.

There's no doubt negotiations have already begun. Even Pac was quoted as saying, "I'm sure he doesn't want to fight [me]" just last week. It was ongoing before the Cotto/Pac fight had even started.

It'll happen, one way or another, these two are the best of our generation and it will happen and when it does, it's going to be incredible.

Well, you know what he meant. If he out-points Pac, they will call it boring.

He really is right about it being a lose/lose from a media standpoint, but he hits the nail right on the head at the end and says if he is making all that money, he can't really lose. :laugh:

The negotiations are going to start Wednesday they are saying. Arum is waiting for the PPV numbers to officially come out.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:39 PM
It should have happened before? :blink:

Further proof you are looking to generate an argument on a topic you know nothing about.

If you don't like Boxing, feel free not to watch and find your way out of this discussion. Nobody cares what you think.

How should it not have?
They should have fought eachother,
NOT Marquez and Cotto, a LOT Of people wanted that fight to happen then.

You care to keep responding,
and you only dislike my opinion because I am attacking a fighter you sleep with apparently.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:40 PM
More proof that you don't really pay attention, yet you think you know what your talking about.

Floyd has given that same response as Manny, numerous times. It's the default answer.

When?
Where?

He certainly isn't now, and Pacman is.
remember our talk about what is relivent? Its what happening NOW that matters.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:40 PM
for the record, just because I dislike boxing as a sport,
does not mean I do not enjoy watching a lot of boxing matches.
I just don't like where the sport has gone, its sad.

What is sad?

That for the past 20 years fighters have started to become their own entities rather than being run under the guise of one company?

That the fighters at the top, who draw the fans, and are the ones going out there and beat the crap out of each other, are the ones making all the money?

You say you don't like where the sport has gone, do you have any idea where it was coming from? This is not anything new in the sport of Boxing.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:43 PM
When?
Where?

He certainly isn't now, and Pacman is.
remember our talk about what is relivent? Its what happening NOW that matters.

Do a friggin google or youtube search for yourself genius...Floyd just said that same thing a few months ago before the JMM fight, and he has ALWAYS said that in relation to the question "will you fight fighter x?"

I would love to spank you in this debate, but you just think Boxing sucks anyway, so I have no reason to talk to you about the subject any further.

You really are a NOOB...sorry.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:43 PM
What makes you think he's not gonna fight?

That's exactly the problem, everybody just says "too much politics, this sucks", but they don't even have a firm understanding on the way things have worked for years, and they don't even bother to try and comprehend it. They just talk s**t like atom and have no actual point of reference but somehow think they're opinion is the only thing that matters.

If you people don't like the sport, don't watch, it's that simple. Let Dana and Joe Silva pick who you see fight, and how much those fighters get paid, or don't get paid, lol.

People don't want to understand the politics, why should they?
They want to see fights.

My opinion must matter a little, my sport is slowly killing boxing :)

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:44 PM
Do a friggin google or youtube search for yourself genius...Floyd just said that same thing a few months ago before the JMM fight, and he has ALWAYS said that in relation to the question "will you fight fighter x?"

I would love to spank you in this debate, but you just think Boxing sucks anyway, so I have no reason to talk to you about the subject any further.

You really are a NOOB...sorry.

Exactly, a few months ago,
what did I just say?

What is relivent? What is happening NOW,
and NOW Floyd is running his mouth, and needs to shut up and take the fight.
I point out that he may have said it before, but isn't now,
(OF COURSE HE SAID IT MONTHS AGO, he knew Pacman was already going to fight Cotto,
and he was already going to fight Marquez, he didn't need to loud mouth his way out of it, now he does, and now he is funning his flapper)
and your reply is that he said it months ago? lol

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:47 PM
Ill be sure and post a bit fat "I told you so" when one of the following happens.

1. Mayweather dodges this fight.
2. Mayweather gets his ass handed to him.

Pacman won't let Floyd ride this out to a decision.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:47 PM
People don't want to understand the politics, why should they?
They want to see fights.

My opinion must matter a little, my sport is slowly killing boxing :)

More proof that you are a tool looking to argue.

Boxing is not dying, and MMA has problems of it's own down the road.

I also love how MMA is "your" sport....you have all the typical symptoms of meathead fan syndrome. Your opinion is as deep as puddle, just like your arguments.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:50 PM
Exactly, a few months ago,
what did I just say?

What is relivent? What is happening NOW,
and NOW Floyd is running his mouth, and needs to shut up and take the fight.
I point out that he may have said it before, but isn't now,
(OF COURSE HE SAID IT MONTHS AGO, he knew Pacman was already going to fight Cotto,
and he was already going to fight Marquez, he didn't need to loud mouth his way out of it, now he does, and now he is funning his flapper)
and your reply is that he said it months ago? lol

Well, before you tried to make "relevant" seem like it was the last few years or fights of a fighters career. Now what somebody said a couple months ago is not relevant.

All Boxers say "talk to my trainer/manager", that's how it works. You are wrong again, deal wit it.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Ill be sure and post a bit fat "I told you so" when one of the following happens.

1. Mayweather dodges this fight.
2. Mayweather gets his ass handed to him.

Pacman won't let Floyd ride this out to a decision.

Why don't you just go watch UFC, there is more blood over there.

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:55 PM
More proof that you are a tool looking to argue.

Boxing is not dying, and MMA has problems of it's own down the road.

Boxing isn't dying?
2 or 3 superfights a year are the only thing keeping boxing in any PPV pictures.
This is a fact, not debatable.
Look at the top 10 PPV events of 2008, or 2009.
In 2008 7 of them were UFC events. (boxing = Pacman/DLH, Trinidad RJJ).
In 2010 boxing only has Pac/Mayweather for a big PPV.
they're out of huge PPV draws, based on NUMBERS, not opinion.
2 or 3 real events a year is all boxing does, based on BUYS, not my opinion.

MMA is doing events with over half a million buys every month.
That is called GROWTH. Moving up, compared to the past.

Tyson fights did almost 2 million buys twice in the 90s.
Who in boxing is touching that now?
thats called a DECLINE

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 10:56 PM
Why don't you just go watch UFC, there is more blood over there.

You're right, I'm a bigger fan of mixed martial arts,
its a better sport, filled with less BS, and better fighters.
Tell Floyd to take it easy tonight, you get grumpy when he's rough.

:)
Can we just hug and make up?

J.B.
11-16-2009, 11:00 PM
You're right, I'm a bigger fan of mixed martial arts,
its a better sport, filled with less BS, and better fighters.
Tell Floyd to take it easy tonight, you get grumpy when he's rough.

With all due respect, which is none, screw you.

Your whole intent in this discussion has been to trash boxing. I knew it from your first post. If you don't like Boxing thats fine, but a lot of people do. You don't know s**t about the subject, so why even bother trying to run your mouth about something you know nothing about?

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 11:02 PM
With all due respect, which is none, screw you.

Your whole intent in this discussion has been to trash boxing. I knew it from your first post. If you don't like Boxing thats fine, but a lot of people do. You don't know s**t about the subject, so why even bother trying to run your mouth about something you know nothing about?

I posted few opinions, and a lot of facts.
I posted facts about the last 5 fights of each fighter,
yet you somehow want to argue?

Manny puts guys away lately, Floyd Doesn't.
Manny isn't running his mouth, Floyd is.
These aren't opinions, sorry your guy is a loud mouth :)

J.B.
11-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Boxing isn't dying?
2 or 3 superfights a year are the only thing keeping boxing in any PPV pictures.
This is a fact, not debatable.
Look at the top 10 PPV events of 2008, or 2009.
In 2008 7 of them were UFC events. (boxing = Pacman/DLH, Trinidad RJJ).
In 2010 boxing only has Pac/Mayweather for a big PPV.
they're out of huge PPV draws, based on NUMBERS, not opinion.
2 or 3 real events a year is all boxing does, based on BUYS, not my opinion.

MMA is doing events with over half a million buys every month.
That is called GROWTH. Moving up, compared to the past.

Tyson fights did almost 2 million buys twice in the 90s.
Who in boxing is touching that now?
thats called a DECLINE


Boxing has been around for hundreds of years, it has a solid fanbase worldwide and it's not going anywhere. I know that's hard to understand with a 4oz glove crammed up your butt.

rockdawg21
11-16-2009, 11:03 PM
Well, you know what he meant. If he out-points Pac, they will call it boring.

He really is right about it being a lose/lose from a media standpoint, but he hits the nail right on the head at the end and says if he is making all that money, he can't really lose. :laugh:

The negotiations are going to start Wednesday they are saying. Arum is waiting for the PPV numbers to officially come out.
Translation: Cha-ching! :laugh:

I'm a big hater, openly admitting that, but with Pac in the ring, Mayweather will have to fight or he'll be sucking canvas so no way will it be boring even if it goes to decision because these guys will be going at each other just like Pac/Marquez, and by the end of it all, I don't think anybody will be disappointed, even the biggest haters. The fight itself is predictable, but the outcome isn't...one-dimensional is Manny, but so is Floyd, it's, as previously stated, the best offense against the best defense, which is better? It's awesome!

atomdanger
11-16-2009, 11:04 PM
Boxing has been around for hundreds of years, it has a solid fanbase worldwide and it's not going anywhere. I know that's hard to understand with a 4oz glove crammed up your butt.

mixed martial arts has been around for hundreds of years as well.
What is your point?

(learn your history)

I didn't say boxing is going to stop happening in gyms, etc...
Its going to die as the major combat sport in the world, esp in the US.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 11:05 PM
I posted few opinions, and a lot of facts.
I posted facts about the last 5 fights of each fighter,
yet you somehow want to argue?

Manny puts guys away lately, Floyd Doesn't.
Manny isn't running his mouth, Floyd is.
These aren't opinions, sorry your guy is a loud mouth :)

Everything you posted I countered and you ignored because you have no response. Your boxing knowledge is too small to comment on anything else I said.

Floyd is not my guy any more than any more than anybody else is my guy. You are just incapable of being fed the hard truth about the sport of boxing, and when somebody gives it to you, you say it's bulls**t. Too bad NOOB, you don't s**t from shinola.

J.B.
11-16-2009, 11:06 PM
mixed martial arts has been around for hundreds of years as well.
What is your point?

(learn your history)

I didn't say boxing is going to stop happening in gyms, etc...
Its going to die as the major combat sport in the world, esp in the US.

Is MMA in the Olympics?

Boxing will not die and only a assclown like yourself would believe that.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 12:20 AM
Is MMA in the Olympics?

Boxing will not die and only a assclown like yourself would believe that.

It will be soon enough,

and TDK is in the olmypics also, is it a mainstream combat sport in the US? no.
Boxing won't be either.
and no offense, but since when does being in the Olympics mean ANYTHING?
Olympic sports include, canoe races, BMX riding, handball, PING PONG, etc.. lol

Boxing is on the DECLINE in the US, as I have proven with NUMBERS.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 12:52 AM
It will be soon enough,

and TDK is in the olmypics also, is it a mainstream combat sport in the US? no.
Boxing won't be either.
and no offense, but since when does being in the Olympics mean ANYTHING?
Olympic sports include, canoe races, BMX riding, handball, PING PONG, etc.. lol

Boxing is on the DECLINE in the US, as I have proven with NUMBERS.
A large number of some of the biggest PPV buys in boxing history have occurred in the past 2 years:

1. De La Hoya-Mayweather - on 5/5/2007 - 2.15 million total buys - $120 million gross revenue
2. Lewis-Tyson - on 6/8/2002 - 1.95 million total buys - $112 million gross revenue
3. Holyfield-Tyson II - on 6/28/1997 - 1.99 million total buys - $100.2 million gross revenue
4. Holyfield-Tyson I - on 11/9/1996 - 1.59 million total buys - $77.9 million gross revenue
5. Tyson-McNeeley - on 8/19/1995 - 1.55 million total buys - $67.1 million gross revenue
6. (PROJECTED) Pacquiao-Cotto - 1.5 million (at least)
7. Trinidad-De La Hoya - on 9/18/1999 - 1.25 million total buys - $64.0 million gross revenue
8. Pacquiao & De La Hoya - 1.25 million, December 2008 (biggest PPV non-title fight)
9. Mayweather & Marquez - 1 million, September 2009
10. Mayweather & Hatton - 850,000, December 2007
11. Pacquiao & Hatton - 850,000, May 2009

Keep in mind, these fights are occurring in a recession, not a booming economy like some of the others above, and in the case of Mayweather/Marquez & Pacquiao/Cotto, they were going up against UFC on the same night so that would no doubt, take away some of the potential buys. Many fighters/matches are still recession-proof, and even during a recession, you will see Mayweather/Pacquiao beat the old record of Mayweather/De La Hoya.

You say it's on a decline, and maybe it had been for a little while, but, as evidenced above, each fight is producing more & more numbers and boxing is rising again even during a recession.

EDIT: Something I just noticed is all of the other top 10 fights occurred BEFORE 2002 (4 of the 5 were 1999 and before). Boxing is definitely on the rise again as records are currently being broke/set just within the past 2 years due to the star power of Mayweather and Pacquiao. De La Hoya recognized it and he used their rising star power to his advantage to make bank (of course, he further contributed to their star power because he's the #1 most purchased boxer of all-time).

J.B.
11-17-2009, 01:06 AM
It will be soon enough,

and TDK is in the olmypics also, is it a mainstream combat sport in the US? no.
Boxing won't be either.
and no offense, but since when does being in the Olympics mean ANYTHING?
Olympic sports include, canoe races, BMX riding, handball, PING PONG, etc.. lol

Boxing is on the DECLINE in the US, as I have proven with NUMBERS.

Okay, well I had to leave, and my point was deeper than that, but I forgot how dense you can be. :rolleyes:

Learn YOUR history Atom, modern MMA has not been around in it's current form for "hundreds of years". Modern Boxing has been, and with only slight modifications at the core of what it is. Being in the Olympics actually is a big deal, just because a meatheads like you don't care about it doesn't mean it's not popular. I am not bashing MMA, but merely defending Boxing. I am not a mindless meathead like yourself.

You laugh at Ping Pong, but Table Tennis IS one of the most popular sports in the world weather you know it or not. Time and time again you prove that you just talk right out of your ass and have no context to back up any point you try to make.

Boxing may have seen a decline in numbers from what it was in the 90's but it does nothing to prove your point. Boxing is NOT dying. Besides, those numbers are back on the rise and they have been since 2006. You have not had a single leg to stand on this entire debate and you base all your opinions off half truths and biased bulls**t. Boxing has been through up and down times throughout it's existence, times worse than this, and it's only idiots like you who would actually believe Boxing will "die".

You have contradicted yourself so many times, I can't even follow you. Every time I shoot down one of your points, you try to divert and just talk more s**t. Like I said, from your first post in this thread you were looking to make this a "MMA is better than Boxing" discussion. There are 5 other boards on this forum totally devoted to MMA. Talk about MMA in there, or start an MMA vs Boxing thread so everyone can avoid it like the plague.

I have no problem going back and fourth about specific details of fights or things people have said, but you are only here to make one point and you just keep repeating it over and over without addressing any of the counter arguments. You clearly have no intention of debating or talking about any of the more specific and in depth details of the happenings in the sport of Boxing, nor do you even posses the knowledge to do so. For all intents and purposes you are nothing but a Troll in this thread.

Repeating your original thought like a broken record and saying NO like a three year old might work with mommy and daddy, but it won't win a debate about a subject you are ignorant about. Saying "I POSTED FACTS" when your "facts" are only telling a part of the story means nothing. You are unable to come up with anything that the few moot points you have tried to make and completely ignored the rest of the story. I don't care what you believe, and nobody cares that you hate Boxing.

Really, I had no intention of arguing like this with you, so if you were looking to Troll me, then you won, I can handle that. I will close out my end of this discussion with you now.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 01:08 AM
A large number of some of the biggest PPV buys in boxing history have occurred in the past 2 years:

1. De La Hoya-Mayweather - on 5/5/2007 - 2.15 million total buys - $120 million gross revenue
2. Lewis-Tyson - on 6/8/2002 - 1.95 million total buys - $112 million gross revenue
3. Holyfield-Tyson II - on 6/28/1997 - 1.99 million total buys - $100.2 million gross revenue
4. Holyfield-Tyson I - on 11/9/1996 - 1.59 million total buys - $77.9 million gross revenue
5. Tyson-McNeeley - on 8/19/1995 - 1.55 million total buys - $67.1 million gross revenue
6. (PROJECTED) Pacquiao-Cotto - 1.5 million (at least)
7. Trinidad-De La Hoya - on 9/18/1999 - 1.25 million total buys - $64.0 million gross revenue
8. Pacquiao & De La Hoya - 1.25 million, December 2008 (biggest PPV non-title fight)
9. Mayweather & Marquez - 1 million, September 2009
10. Mayweather & Hatton - 850,000, December 2007
11. Pacquiao & Hatton - 850,000, May 2009

Keep in mind, these fights are occurring in a recession, not a booming economy like some of the others above, and in the case of Mayweather/Marquez & Pacquiao/Cotto, they were going up against UFC on the same night so that would no doubt, take away some of the potential buys. Many fighters/matches are still recession-proof, and even during a recession, you will see Mayweather/Pacquiao beat the old record of Mayweather/De La Hoya.

You say it's on a decline, and maybe it had been for a little while, but, as evidenced above, each fight is producing more & more numbers and boxing is rising again even during a recession.

Hey Rock, good to see you :laugh:

I think Pac/Mayweather will beat May/DLH too. Boxing is not going anywhere, everybody knows that.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 01:46 AM
Hey Rock, good to see you :laugh:

I think Pac/Mayweather will beat May/DLH too. Boxing is not going anywhere, everybody knows that.
Yeah, and I just noticed something that I'd previously overlooked:

...all of the other top 10 fights occurred BEFORE 2002 (4 of the 5 were 1999 and before). Boxing is definitely on the rise again as records are currently being broke/set just within the past 2 years due to the star power of Mayweather and Pacquiao. De La Hoya recognized it and he used their rising star power to his advantage to make bank (of course, he further contributed to their star power because he's the #1 most purchased boxer of all-time).

J.B.
11-17-2009, 01:56 AM
Yeah, and I just noticed something that I'd previously overlooked:

I agree, and I said it a few pages back.

I think Manny and Floyd are feeding each others popularity at this point and a 50/50 split is in order. Even a short time ago, it would have seemed crazy to suggest that, but Pac's dominance and the general spike in interest definitely merits it.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 02:21 AM
A large number of some of the biggest PPV buys in boxing history have occurred in the past 2 years:


8. Pacquiao & De La Hoya - 1.25 million, December 2008 (biggest PPV non-title fight)
9. Mayweather & Marquez - 1 million, September 2009
10. Mayweather & Hatton - 850,000, December 2007
11. Pacquiao & Hatton - 850,000, May 2009


That many in the last 2 years.

They all feature either Pac, or Mayweather.
My point was boxing is running out of superstars, when these two retire then what?
Boxing has 2 or 3 fights a year holding it up, and you proved my point.
I didn't mean boxing was stop existing lol, I even explained what I mean when I said "die"
Boxing will be something like TKD, or Judo, still a popular combat sport, but MMA will be "it" in the world of combat sports.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 02:47 AM
People have been saying "Boxing is out of stars" for a long time, but then magically more keep popping up. Of course MMA is gaining a lot of popularity, and it is a great sport, but it's not gonna stop people from wanting to see the big fights in boxing when they come along. Boxing's solid fanbase is stable, and it's not going anywhere. Comparing it to TKD or Judo is far fetched, considering Boxing still does create mainstream stars, and it will continue to do so. People will always love the hype of a good fight, no matter what kind of gloves they wear.

Conversely, MMA is on the way up right now, but the road ahead is certainly not going to be smooth sailing. The model that the UFC has followed has been a mixture of Boxing's model and WWE's model, and so far it has worked. But MMA has already seen it's fair share of controversy, and just like any combat sport it will always have that.

There is room in the world, and in the US market for both sports, and they will both flourish for many years to come.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:08 AM
I'm not sure of the validity of this report right now, but boxingscene is saying that Station Casinos (owned by the Fertita brothers) put a line out already that has Pacquiao as an 8-5 favorite... I'm not sure it will stay that lop-sided once the fight gets closer, but Pac is the clear favorite right now.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23508

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:25 AM
That many in the last 2 years.

They all feature either Pac, or Mayweather.
My point was boxing is running out of superstars, when these two retire then what?
Boxing has 2 or 3 fights a year holding it up, and you proved my point.
I didn't mean boxing was stop existing lol, I even explained what I mean when I said "die"
Boxing will be something like TKD, or Judo, still a popular combat sport, but MMA will be "it" in the world of combat sports.
You missed the #1 fight of all-time:

1. De La Hoya-Mayweather - on 5/5/2007 - 2.15 million total buys - $120 million gross revenue.

Boxing isn't dying, proof is in the past 2 years, it's making a comeback after nearly a decade of suppressed ratings, and we're soon likely to see the above fight get surpassed when Pac & Mayweather face each other.

Head-to-head, Mayweather & Pac are still outdoing the UFC. :tongue0011:

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:30 AM
I'm not sure of the validity of this report right now, but boxingscene is saying that Station Casinos (owned by the Fertita brothers) put a line out already that has Pacquiao as an 8-5 favorite... I'm not sure it will stay that lop-sided once the fight gets closer, but Pac is the clear favorite right now.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23508
It's logical, especially at this point. Few people thought Pac would dominate Cotto, let alone actually finish him.

I think it's also fair to say Mayweather wouldn't have been able to get the TKO on Cotto as Mayweather is a finesse fighter and not a power puncher like Pac, but I have no doubts he'd of won on points as Cotto always gets tired at the end of a fight and Mayweather's a cardio machine.

Finishing the fight is always more impressive to the majority and only a fool would deny that Pac's fight with Cotto was more difficult than any fight Mayweather has fought in recent years. I agree though, as the fight gets closer, it'll probably be closer to 1:1, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Pac comes in as the favorite. Floyd would be so pissed if that were to happen :laugh: (I wonder what he's thinking about it now, lol)

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:41 AM
It's logical, especially at this point. Few people thought Pac would dominate Cotto, let alone actually finish him.

I think it's also fair to say Mayweather wouldn't have been able to get the TKO on Cotto as Mayweather is a finesse fighter and not a power puncher like Pac, but I have no doubts he'd of won on points as Cotto always gets tired at the end of a fight and Mayweather's a cardio machine.

Finishing the fight is always more impressive to the majority and only a fool would deny that Pac's fight with Cotto was more difficult than any fight Mayweather has fought in recent years. I agree though, as the fight gets closer, it'll probably be closer to 1:1, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Pac comes in as the favorite. Floyd would be so pissed if that were to happen :laugh: (I wonder what he's thinking about it now, lol)

It's definitely logical that Pac is favored right now, but I would never count Floyd out from finishing a fight against Cotto, or even Pac for that matter. It's not like he's hitting guys with pillows, and anybody can get clipped. He was close to stopping Marquez, and he TKO'd Hatton. He is definitely a finesse fighter, but the guy still poses a serious threat with his offense.

I will admit that I thought Cotto would do better, but he really hasn't looked the same since the loss to Margarito, and Margarito was probably cheating in that fight (although we don't KNOW for sure). Cotto is still great, but I really thought he would rise to the occasion for this fight with Pac. That's not taking anything away from Pac, I figured he would win, I just thought it would be by decision.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 03:48 AM
It's definitely logical that Pac is favored right now, but I would never count Floyd out from finishing a fight against Cotto, or even Pac for that matter. It's not like he's hitting guys with pillows, and anybody can get clipped. He was close to stopping Marquez, and he TKO'd Hatton. He is definitely a finesse fighter, but the guy still poses a serious threat with his offense.

I will admit that I thought Cotto would do better, but he really hasn't looked the same since the loss to Margarito, and Margarito was probably cheating in that fight (although we don't KNOW for sure). Cotto is still great, but I really thought he would rise to the occasion for this fight with Pac. That's not taking anything away from Pac, I figured he would win, I just thought it would be by decision.
Cotto was more game the other night that he's been since the Margarito fight. The way he came out there, nearly matching speed with Pac & winning the first round hitting Pac with those big shots had me worried for a bit. Pac adjusted nicely though and I was impressed he was using some "Rope-A-Dope" in there. Cotto may have tried to come forward too much trying to impose his will on Pacquiao allowing for Pac to land those shots, but Pac defended very well. I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating Pacquiao as a fighter, including Roger & Floyd Sr. They say he's a bad boxer, which is just ridiculous considering he's universally accepted as the #1 p4p and now, one of the top 10 of all-time. You don't win 7 belts in 7 different weight classes by being a bad boxer, lol

J.B.
11-17-2009, 03:56 AM
Cotto was more game the other night that he's been since the Margarito fight. The way he came out there, nearly matching speed with Pac & winning the first round hitting Pac with those big shots had me worried for a bit. Pac adjusted nicely though and I was impressed he was using some "Rope-A-Dope" in there. Cotto may have tried to come forward too much trying to impose his will on Pacquiao allowing for Pac to land those shots, but Pac defended very well. I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating Pacquiao as a fighter, including Roger & Floyd Sr. They say he's a bad boxer, which is just ridiculous considering he's universally accepted as the #1 p4p and now, one of the top 10 of all-time. You don't win 7 belts in 7 different weight classes by being a bad boxer, lol


LOL, well come on man, what do you expect Floyd Sr and Roger to say?

The part of Floyd Jr that you hate the most, that is really only 1/2 of who Floyd Jr is. However, the trash talking is ALL of who Floyd Sr and Roger are. Those two have quite the reputation, and they always have, but they do know a lot about Boxing.

I think they see Manny as being one dimensional, but I think they know he is very talented and very dangerous. There is no way they would be so crazy as to underestimate Pac.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 04:02 AM
LOL, well come on man, what do you expect Floyd Sr and Roger to say?

The part of Floyd Jr that you hate the most, that is really only 1/2 of who Floyd Jr is. However, the trash talking is ALL of who Floyd Sr and Roger are. Those two have quite the reputation, and they always have, but they do know a lot about Boxing.

I think they see Manny as being one dimensional, but I think they know he is very talented and very dangerous. There is no way they would be so crazy as to underestimate Pac.
Yeah, but I can say what I want, it as a public forum and those guys are jackasses, so I'll always call them out, lol

BTW, time to post in the new thread. This one is done:
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81333#post81333

Congrats Pac! :happydancing:

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 04:08 AM
Nevermind, it's not done. We still have the PPV ratings, & purse. Guess we will see more official results by tomorrow or Wednesday, but all signs point to another top 10 fight of all time.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20091117-236707/82M-seen-from-Pacquiao-Cotto-pay-per-view

$82M seen from Pacquiao-Cotto pay-per-view

By Francis T.J. Ochoa
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:32:00 11/17/2009

LOS ANGELES—Do the math, start counting.

Manny Pacquiao is expecting yet another cash windfall after successfully making history following his 12th round technical knockout of Miguel Cotto at the MGM Grand’s Garden Arena that looked more like a demolition job.

Pacquiao earned close to $13 million from his lion’s share of the purse and is expected to make much more from his fat slice of the pay-per-view (PPV) pie.

Experts are saying that the Pacquiao-Cotto bout could generate at least 1.5 million PPV buys, leading to a gross of $82,425,000, after taxes.

Pacquiao is again expected to get a huge share of that pie through his own promotional outfit, MP Promotions.

“The signs are good. We really won’t know until we get the preliminary results on pay-per-view sales on Wednesday,” said Top Rank chief Bob Arum, who promoted the fight dubbed “Firepower”.

Initial reports, however, indicated that the PPV hits for the Pacquiao-Cotto bout could exceed the 1 million buys reeled in by the fight that saw Floyd Mayweather Jr. outclass Juan Manuel Marquez in September.

“From every sign that we see, we know our goal of garnering more than one million pay-per-view buys is well within sight,” Mark Taffet, a vice president for HBO Sports, which beamed the fight on PPV, said earlier.

That could mean that Firepower will profit more since it was sold to homes on a higher price.

Mayweather-Marquez PPVs were sold at $49.95 each, while the Pacquiao-Cotto PPVs were sold for $54.95 each.

Huge demand

And despite the higher price, there was a big demand for an uninterrupted showing of the Pacquiao-Cotto bout.

“We’ve never had this experience with so many people ordering a fight,” a local New Jersey cable operator was quoted by Fighthype.com as saying hours before the clash. “This must be a big, big fight.”

Several cable operators were forced to turn away customers because they could not keep up with the demand, the report added. And these customers even filed complaints.

“We're sorry,” the New Jersey provider told customers. “We are just so overwhelmed with people trying to order this fight. So many people are trying to order it from their remote controls that it locked up the computer. It was processing so many orders, the computer was overwhelmed.”

Huge fan base

Aside from the profit it generates for the pound-for-pound champion, the PPV hits will play a crucial part in negotiations for next year’s highly anticipated superfight: Pacquiao vs Mayweather.

Richard Schaefer, whose Golden Boy Promotions partnered with Mayweather’s outfit for the Marquez bout, said Pacquiao-Cotto would have to exceed the PPV hits of Maywather-Marquez to prove that the Filipino could get at least half of the share of the purse.
Mayweather’s camp is asking for a 65-35 share in profits, something that Team Pacquiao is not amenable to, especially since the new welterweight champion is on a meteoric rise to stardom and commands a huge PPV-buying fan base.

Biggest pay day

Aside from the 16,200 fans that bought tickets to the Garden Arena for the Cotto fight, close to 18,000 also purchased closed-circuit TV seats to watch Pacquiao as he demolished the Puerto Rican after a slow start.

Cotto earned over $6 million for the fight, his biggest payday by far, and is expected to also get his own share of the PPV income.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 04:13 AM
Yeah, but I can say what I want, it as a public forum and those guys are jackasses, so I'll always call them out, lol

BTW, time to post in the new thread. This one is done:
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81333#post81333

Congrats Pac! :happydancing:

I'm not saying you can't can't criticize them, lol

I'm just saying you shouldn't be surprised, and that I wouldn't take them seriously when they say Pac is a "bad boxer". I don't think Roach is going to be singing any praises for Floyd anytime soon.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 08:00 PM
You missed the #1 fight of all-time:

1. De La Hoya-Mayweather - on 5/5/2007 - 2.15 million total buys - $120 million gross revenue.

Boxing isn't dying, proof is in the past 2 years, it's making a comeback after nearly a decade of suppressed ratings, and we're soon likely to see the above fight get surpassed when Pac & Mayweather face each other.

Head-to-head, Mayweather & Pac are still outdoing the UFC. :tongue0011:

Check your date, thats over 2 years ago.

rockdawg21
11-17-2009, 10:23 PM
Check your date, thats over 2 years ago.
Atom, don't be anal about it. I'm talking within "virtually 2 years", just because it's 2 years and some days doesn't change the point being made.

J.B.
11-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Atom, don't be anal about it. I'm talking within "virtually 2 years", just because it's 2 years and some days doesn't change the point being made.

Atom is set in his beliefs, so it's pointless.

All you need to look at to make your point is what happened on Saturday night. Nobody cared about Couture vs Vera, and even still this week the talk of the town is Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd Mayweather. Twice the UFC has tried to go up against Boxing's big names, and both times they lost horribly because they countered with less than stellar cards.

I will go out on a limb and say that Roy Jones Jr vs Bernard Hopkins on nostalgia alone would beat just about any matchup the UFC can make at this point and time, short of super-fight with Lesnar (and that ain't happening soon)

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Atom, don't be anal about it. I'm talking within "virtually 2 years", just because it's 2 years and some days doesn't change the point being made.

Well either way it was a fight with either pac or floyd,
the two people who are the only big draws in boxing.

The only two people doing big PPV's in boxing.
Was really my point, you can't really deny it, love em or not, love boxing or not.
Nobody else in boxing is doing big numbers but these two.
The point was that boxing only has a few events a year holding it in the picture,
all the big events in the last few years have been these two.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Atom is set in his beliefs, so it's pointless.


It isn't a beleif, its numbers.

Boxing has 2 or 3 events a year, tops.
All the big events in the last "virtually 2 years" have had pac or mayweather.
Without these two, boxing isn't in the PPV picture at all.
This is proven by ppv numbers, how can you argue? lol

J.B.
11-17-2009, 11:08 PM
It isn't a beleif, its numbers.

Boxing has 2 or 3 events a year, tops.
All the big events in the last "virtually 2 years" have had pac or mayweather.
Without these two, boxing isn't in the PPV picture at all.
This is proven by ppv numbers, how can you argue? lol

See, you try to defer to a MOOT point again, such as ONLY 2 or 3 big fights per year, and COMPLETELY ignore the rest of the counter points.

UFC has PPV's every month, but not all of them are great, and don't lie through your teeth and act like they are. UFC is definitely winning the exposure battle in recent years, which caused a huge spike in PPV numbers, but their fanbase has started to reach it's point where it's leveling out, still growing somewhat, but not like it was.

Boxing will always have stars, and there are still others besides Floyd and Pac, although they are the biggest. If De La Hoya came back today, his next fight would CRUSH any UFC event, period. Check those numbers. Or, would you care to respond to my previous point about Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins? There are still stars in Boxing, and there always will be. People with theories like yours about Boxing dying off come around as often as people with 2012 style doomsday theories.

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 11:14 PM
See, you try to defer to a MOOT point again, such as ONLY 2 or 3 big fights per year, and COMPLETELY ignore the rest of the counter points.

UFC has PPV's every month, but not all of them are great, and don't lie through your teeth and act like they are. UFC is definitely winning the exposure battle in recent years, which caused a huge spike in PPV numbers, but their fanbase has started to reach it's point where it's leveling out, still growing somewhat, but not like it was.

Boxing will always have stars, and there are still others besides Floyd and Pac, although they are the biggest. If De La Hoya came back today, his next fight would CRUSH any UFC event, period. Check those numbers. Or, would you care to respond to my previous point about Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins? There are still stars in Boxing, and there always will be. People with theories like yours about Boxing dying off come around as often as people with 2012 style doomsday theories.

but Oscar isn't coming back.
So whats your point?
Right now, boxing doesn't have other big stars.
This isn't an opinion, its a fact, based on numbers.

I didn't say boxing was going away as a sport, I said its not the big dog on the block anymore,
and that is how its going to stay.
Other than a few "superfights" boxing isn't doing anything PPV wise,
and its running out of those "superfights".
Of course UFC numbers are small, they do events every month,
and every month they're doing 500K buys(average), thats huge, all year long. Boxing couldn't do that, ever.

My point isn't moot, you just like that word ;)
Do you even know what moot means?

J.B.
11-17-2009, 11:49 PM
but Oscar isn't coming back.
So whats your point?
Right now, boxing doesn't have other big stars.
This isn't an opinion, its a fact, based on numbers.

I didn't say boxing was going away as a sport, I said its not the big dog on the block anymore,
and that is how its going to stay.
Other than a few "superfights" boxing isn't doing anything PPV wise,
and its running out of those "superfights".
Of course UFC numbers are small, they do events every month,
and every month they're doing 500K buys(average), thats huge, all year long. Boxing couldn't do that, ever.

My point isn't moot, you just like that word ;)
Do you even know what moot means?

How do you know if Oscar is coming back? Fighters come back all the time. I'm sure he's having fun running around in drag somewhere in Mexico right now, but maybe one day he'll get the itch to come back, and if he did, he would rule PPV. That is a fact.

You said "YOUR SPORT IS KILLING BOXING", remember? Which is hilarious, because MMA doesn't belong to you, and I happen to be a huge fan of both. In every major era of Boxing, there has been people saying the same thing you are about "lack of stars", but Boxing never goes away. MMA might be huge now and forever, but Boxing will be too.

UFC might be doing 500,000 PPV buys a month right now, but how many of those people that are constantly paying $50 for the fights are going to keep paying that when big fighters jump ship to make more money? Not to mention, a LOT of the people who follow UFC are avid Boxing fans who would buy almost ANY fight (like me). Boxing doesn't NEED a half a million PPV buys each month to prove it's fanbase. It is featured on ESPN every week, not to mention HBO and Showtime. UFC blocks out sponsors and underpays their fighters and eventually it's not gonna fly. Dana White thinks he's gonna be bigger than the NFL, yeah fu**in right. If there is no sort of "fighters union" (which is unlikely), eventually UFC will end up folding into nothing more than a sanctioning body, just like Boxing.

In case you didn't get the memo. Boxing WAS the litmus test for how combat sports are perceived by the general public. Like it or not, MMA still has a ways to go in winning those people over. The same "problems" you think Boxing has are what is seeping it's way into the UFC's WWE like business style. It was bound to happen sooner or later, and it will only keep growing.

Oh, and please, don't ask me what "moot" means when you can barely spell or use proper punctuation. :rolleyes:

J.B.
11-17-2009, 11:54 PM
double post...my bad

atomdanger
11-17-2009, 11:59 PM
How do you know if Oscar is coming back? Fighters come back all the time. I'm sure he's having fun running around in drag somewhere in Mexico right now, but maybe one day he'll get the itch to come back, and if he did, he would rule PPV. That is a fact.

You said "YOUR SPORT IS KILLING BOXING", remember? Which is hilarious, because MMA doesn't belong to you, and I happen to be a huge fan of both. In every major era of Boxing, there has been people saying the same thing you are about "lack of stars", but Boxing never goes away. MMA might be huge now and forever, but Boxing will be too.

UFC might be doing 500,000 PPV buys a month right now, but how many of those people that are constantly paying $50 for the fights are going to keep paying that when big fighters jump ship to make more money? Not to mention, a LOT of the people who follow UFC are avid Boxing fans who would buy almost ANY fight (like me). Boxing doesn't NEED a half a million PPV buys each month to prove it's fanbase. It is featured on ESPN every week, not to mention HBO and Showtime.

UFC blocks out sponsors and underpays their fighters and eventually it's not gonna fly. Dana White thinks he's gonna be bigger than the NFL, yeah fu**in right. If there is no sort of "fighters union" (which is unlikely), eventually UFC will end up folding into nothing more than a sanctioning body, just like Boxing.

In case you didn't get the memo. Boxing WAS the litmus test for how combat sports are perceived by the general public. Like it or not, MMA still has a ways to go in winning those people over. The same "problems" you think Boxing has are what is seeping it's way into the UFC's WWE like business style. It was bound to happen sooner or later, and it will only keep growing.

Oh, and please, don't ask me what moot means when you can barely spell or use proper punctuation. :rolleyes:

You dodge points like Mayweather dodges fights.

Attack Dana and his business plan, I am sure you can do better right?
Fact, MMA is passing boxing in PPV numbers, and in popularity.
Go on about HBO and and Dana White and blah blah blah all day because you cannot argue the numbers.

You clearly missed my sarcasm about the word moot lol.
:)

J.B.
11-18-2009, 12:06 AM
You dodge points like Mayweather dodges fights.

Attack Dana and his business plan, I am sure you can do better right?
Fact, MMA is passing boxing in PPV numbers, and in popularity.
Go on about HBO and and Dana White and blah blah blah all day because you cannot argue the numbers.

You're a moron.
:)

Atom, go back and read this thread and count up how many points of mine you have neglected to address. Then count up how many times I have pointed out that you neglected to address those points. Your arguments consist of one or two points, and you try to stick to them like flies on poop. When somebody counters your point with a rebuttal, you ignore that point and try to defer to something else. I didn't dodge s**t. I pointed out that the UFC is very popular and it is winning the war of exposure at this point and time. You are the one who tried to say Boxing is dying. You are the moron.

I just read a post from you over in another thread citing how ridiculous it is that UFC just blocked out two more sponsors, and now I am supposed to be in the wrong for calling out Dana White's business practices in a thread that YOU wanted to turn into an MMA vs Boxing debate? :rolleyes:

It's a public forum, people can see how stupid you look by reading over the last 18 pages.

EDIT: Maybe I did miss the sarcasm before about the word "moot", but this is a text based forum, and that happens from time to time. I will apologize to you straight up for this debate getting personal like it has, but I think that you have come off with a lot of negativity from the beginning without even giving a single reasonable thought to a lot of the points I have made.

atomdanger
11-18-2009, 12:53 AM
I just read a post from you over in another thread citing how ridiculous it is that UFC just blocked out two more sponsors, and now I am supposed to be in the wrong for calling out Dana White's business practices in a thread that YOU wanted to turn into an MMA vs Boxing debate? :rolleyes:

It's a public forum, people can see how stupid you look by reading over the last 18 pages.

EDIT: Maybe I did miss the sarcasm before about the word "moot", but this is a text based forum, and that happens from time to time. I will apologize to you straight up for this debate getting personal like it has, but I think that you have come off with a lot of negativity from the beginning without even giving a single reasonable thought to a lot of the points I have made.

Dana blocking sponsors is complete BS,
it isn't going to make MMA less popular however.
also, at this point that particular thread you're talking about is a rumor.

I was talking about MMA / VS boxing in a numbers sense.
Dana White and his antics aren't the numbers, so your point was moot.
lol

J.B.
11-18-2009, 01:44 AM
Dana blocking sponsors is complete BS,
it isn't going to make MMA less popular however.
also, at this point that particular thread you're talking about is a rumor.

I was talking about MMA / VS boxing in a numbers sense.
Dana White and his antics aren't the numbers, so your point was moot.
lol

Yes, blocking sponsors is BS, and it will make fighters take other options. When the biggest fighters don't fight for the UFC because of their business practices it WILL make the UFC less popular. Again, you ignored that point.

What particular thread is a rumor?

You came into THIS thread and said YOUR sport is KILLING Boxing....TRUE or NOT TRUE?

Your first post in this thread made little sense, other than to elude to your pre-disposition to trying to hate on boxing while bringing little argument of substance to the table. You may think that there is some "ghost" thread that I am eluding too, but the truth is, the more I respond to your posts, the more uninformed and ridiculous you look.

atomdanger
11-18-2009, 08:35 PM
Yes, blocking sponsors is BS, and it will make fighters take other options. When the biggest fighters don't fight for the UFC because of their business practices it WILL make the UFC less popular. Again, you ignored that point.

What particular thread is a rumor?

.

Ok, argue facts.
1. Dana has been blocking sponsors for YEARS,
and it hasn't made the UFC any less popular other than some fans bitching about it on forums.
So you have no reason other than your own opinion to think it will change now.

2. Clinch Gear and RVCA being banned, the sponsors you brought up,
that is not confirmed, at this point those two sponsors being banned in a rumor.

Get it together man.

J.B.
11-18-2009, 09:15 PM
Ok, argue facts.
1. Dana has been blocking sponsors for YEARS,
and it hasn't made the UFC any less popular other than some fans bitching about it on forums.
So you have no reason other than your own opinion to think it will change now.

2. Clinch Gear and RVCA being banned, the sponsors you brought up,
that is not confirmed, at this point those two sponsors being banned in a rumor.

Get it together man.

Get it together? You are the one unable to address the bigger picture being painted for you. You are the one who wanted to make this a debate about Boxing vs MMA. Also, you are the one who diverts from what is actually said and tries to spin my words in an attempt to make another crappy point that holds little bearing.

I never said that blocking the sponsors was going to kill their popularity. You are trying to put words in my mouth. I said that when the biggest fighters start leaving the UFC because of unfair business practices, it will make the UFC less popular, big difference.

You were the one who came into a thread about Boxing and tried to make it about MMA, now you are grasping at straws for an argument because you can't intelligently debate any of the counter points that have been raised. You pick and choose what you respond to and then try to spin the original meaning of what I am telling you into something else.

Regardless of weather the banning of the two latest sponsors is only a rumor, you can't deny that the UFC has had some shady stuff going on behind the scenes. Just like you cannot make an intelligent argument that would ever prove "Boxing is dying". Quite simply, you can barely stay on topic long enough to even rationally respond to anything of substance that gets said to you. It's as if all the words on the screen send your brain into overload and you just try to respond to it by taking a small portion out of context, or you just spin the conversation in another direction completely.

This forum is more centered towards MMA, and everybody knows that. It's no secret to anybody here that we all like MMA. If you don't like Boxing, good for you, but you don't need to troll the few Boxing threads in the Sports Section just to talk s**t. It's one thing to say you don't like a certain Boxer for whatever reason, but don't get all mad and turn it into a mudslinging competition about MMA vs Boxing when somebody exposes your lack of knowledge about Boxing. This topic has been beaten to death and it's a stupid argument that you cannot win.

Both sports have their pros and cons, and both are very popular in the mainstream, it's as simple as that.

atomdanger
11-18-2009, 09:50 PM
I never said that blocking the sponsors was going to kill their popularity. You are trying to put words in my mouth. I said that when the biggest fighters start leaving the UFC because of unfair business practices, it will make the UFC less popular, big difference.



We'll stick with the part that wasn't the mad ramblings of Mayweather's girlfriend.

You're speculating, (At best)
At this point, those sponsors have not been banned, and no fighters have left the UFC worth talking about, let alone for that reason.
I pointed out that MMA does 10 - 12 huge PPV events a year,
and it growing like a weed, and that boxing is only doing 2 or 3 events a year that anybody is even talking about.
Your comeback was that Dana is blocking sponsors?
Come on man...

J.B.
11-18-2009, 10:48 PM
We'll stick with the part that wasn't the mad ramblings of Mayweather's girlfriend.

You're speculating, (At best)
At this point, those sponsors have not been banned, and no fighters have left the UFC worth talking about, let alone for that reason.
I pointed out that MMA does 10 - 12 huge PPV events a year,
and it growing like a weed, and that boxing is only doing 2 or 3 events a year that anybody is even talking about.
Your comeback was that Dana is blocking sponsors?
Come on man...

How about we stick to the fact that you can't debate without talking mad s**t because you're a tool that talks out of his ass about a sport you nothing about?

Yes, I am speculating, isn't that what you are doing when you say "boxing is dying"? The difference is my speculation actually makes sense and has merit because we have seen fighters leave and refuse to sign with UFC over their business practices. Your speculation is nothing more than a hate-filled tirade against a sport you don't like.

My comeback was not just the blocking of sponsors, but just like every other post, you only focus on one or two lines of a post and then try to spin it or take it out of context. Go back and actually read all that has been said. I never denied any of the "facts" you stated, but rather pointed out that the point you are trying make with said facts is indeed misguided. Did you understand that, or do I have restructure my writing style back to a grade school level?

J.B.
11-18-2009, 11:12 PM
Atom, lets look at your first post in this thread.

In response to a completely unrelated topic about the politics of Boxing, this is what you had to say...

remember that next time you think about bad mouthing an mma fighter for ducking.

to which I responded...

What?

What MMA fighter did I bad mouth for ducking?

Seriously, there are 5 other areas on this forum devoted to MMA. Let's leave the MMA talk there since this is not a debate about the two sports.

You ignored that response and proceeded to call Mayweather a bunch of names and praise Pacquiao like a God, all the while ignoring the actual stats and deeper points that I presented to you about the sport of Boxing, something you are clearly uneducated about.

Rather than just drop it, you continued to talk s**t and say you don't even like Boxing and that YOUR sport is killing Boxing. You then proceed down the same path of redundancy and continued to ignore major counter points while just repeating the same drivel over and over like a broken record.

Every point you have made has been countered and the only thing you can think to do is try and repeat your same points over and over, which is basically the online equivalent of 3 year old sticking his fingers in his ears and saying LALALALALALALALALA. You are incapable of formulating an ACTUAL response to any of my posts in there entirety without using only one or two lines out of conxtext, or diverting from the subject completely. Rather than try to actually rebut the counter points with well thought out, and logical responses, you just talk s**t and call me "Mayweather's girlfriend". Which is fine, if you wanna talk smack, I can do that right back, but it still won't change the fact that you have been intellectually pwned over and over again in this thread.

I have no problem discussing the topic, but that's not what this thread was about and it was clear that your whole intention was just to insert your opinions against Boxing. Sure, it's a public forum, and you can post whatever you want unless the mods say otherwise, but it's still lame of you (somebody who has been around the forum for a long time), to come in the current boxing thread just to talk crap about the sport and derail the thread. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think this is the first time we have had this same discussion. There is a not a lot of Boxing people on this forum anyway, it's usually just me and Rock going back and forth with a few random comments thrown in. So if your not simply trolling for an argument, then why do you constantly ignore the in-depth points and revert back to name calling?

J.B.
11-19-2009, 12:06 AM
To get this thread back on track, here are some pics from the fight :)


http://i45.tinypic.com/qs9zih.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2jc7ghl.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/wcc08i.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/18opir.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/nfkuip.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/e13gon.jpg

rockdawg21
11-20-2009, 04:07 AM
This is pretty wild news. Lots of places have yet to report including Comcast Cable, which provides tv service to more than 25 million homes, and California, which has the highest population of Filipinos in the U.S. (which is in the range of 750,000 to 1 million). I'd say it's likely to reach 1.75 to 2 million viewers, but the numbers are still planning to be released tomorrow.

The last paragraph is pretty interesting, considering some people think boxing is dying. This is just more proof that boxing is making a comeback after a drop in ratings in the past decade. The glamor is coming back!

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/11/19/working-pacquiao-cotto-just-below-1-5-million/

Pacquiao-Cotto Nears 1.5 Million Buys

Posted Nov 19, 2009 6:09PM By Lem Satterfield

http://www.blogcdn.com/boxing.fanhouse.com/media/2009/11/manny-425-11809.jpg

Top Rank promoter Bob Arum said that the early pay-per-view numbers released on Manny Pacquiao's victory over Miguel Cotto are "over a million and under 1.5 million buys -- and that's without all of the precincts being reported."

"They're not really accurate yet, but all that we can say with absolute certainty is that Pacquiao-Cotto was the biggest, revenue-producing event on pay-per-view for the entire year," said Arum. "And that surpasses all of the UFC. Everything. Any event. It's the biggest event of the year from the standpoint of revenue being generated."

Arum, who promotes Pacquiao (50-3-2, 37 knockouts), said that he met with officials at HBO on Thursday concerning the numbers.

Arum said that he expects Mark Taffet, HBO's senior vice president of pay-per-view, to release a statement on Friday when all of the numbers are totaled up.

"That's without Washington, D.C., being reported, Baltimore, California -- a lot of Comcast Systems," said Arum. "But based on what we have, we can make that statement -- that Pacquiao-Cotto was the biggest revenue-generating pay-per-view event of the year."

Arum had hoped to begin negotiating with Richard Shaefer of Golden Boy Promotions concerning a potential Pacquiao-Floyd Mayweather (40-0, 25 KOs) matchup when the numbers were released, but would not elaborate on whether or not that had taken place.

However, according to sources with knowledge of their intentions, Arum and Shaefer could meet as early as next week to begin working on a deal to make Mayweather-Pacquiao.

During an Oct. 6 interview with FanHouse, Taffet said September's Mayweather-Juan Manuel Marquez bout produced more than a million pay-per-view buys -- only the fifth non-heavyweight fight to reach seven figures.

So with Pacquiao-Cotto and Mayweather-Marquez, boxing history was made, for their pay-per-view numbers marked the first time since 1999 that two fights generated more than a million pay-per-view buys in the same year, joining Felix Trinidad-Oscar De La Hoya and Lennox Lewis-Evander Holyfield.