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Tyburn
11-08-2009, 10:50 AM
:angry: I say Deport the Killer to face British Justice...which is what the Americans would do vice versa, but of course if we were to ask, the US Government would not be willing, yet I hear they are still after trying to deport some English computer hacker with mental health issues. The Americans wont even turn up to Enquiries over "Friendly Fire" incidents where they "accidently" kill British Troops. They openly refuse :ninja:

A British father on a road-trip through the United States was shot dead after stopping in Amarillo because he loved the cult song, relatives revealed.




a British father on a road-trip through the United States was shot dead after stopping in Amarillo because he loved the cult song, relatives revealed.

Tom Reeve, who was gunned down while visiting a bar in the Texan city, was "just in the wrong place, at the wrong time", his mother and step-father said.

The 28-year-old and his two friends were only making a brief stop in Amarillo - made famous in the UK by the Tony Christie chart hit, (Is This The Way To) Amarillo - during a trip from San Francisco to Florida.

In a statement issued from his detached family home in Maidenhead, Berkshire, his mother, Margaret, and step-father, Brian Millin, said: "Tom was a much loved son, brother and father who will be missed by the whole family and very many friends."

Mr Reeve, who had a nine-month-old daughter, died of a wound to the torso after the masked attacker walked into the Spotted Pony bar on Thursday night (US time).

US police said Mr Reeve, who had rented a car in California, had arrived in Amarillo just hours before the shooting.

His parents said "the whole family was in shock" as they told how Mr Reeve, who had lived all his life in Maidenhead and had played schoolboy football, was always "happy and optimistic".

They added: "Although he worked for many years in the licensed trade he was, in fact, teetotal.He was on a holiday with two of his friends, driving from San Francisco to Florida and had chosen Amarillo as a stopping place because he liked the song. He was just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

"He loved life, was always happy and optimistic about the future. He was generous, kind and always saw the best in every one he met. He adored his nine-month-old daughter, Tabitha, and was a devoted father."

Sergeant Kevin Dockery, of Amarillo special crimes unit, said a suspect - according to US reports, Ray Carlos Cisneros, 25, - had been charged with capital murder.

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 12:57 PM
You want an American to be sent to England to stand trial for a crime he committed in America? :blink: And what does that have to do with "friendly fire" in a war zone?


~Amy

Llamafighter
11-08-2009, 01:14 PM
You want an American to be sent to England to stand trial for a crime he committed in America? :blink: And what does that have to do with "friendly fire" in a war zone?


~Amy

yeah I don't get your reasoning, Dave. He broke an American law on american soil. He should be tried in American court. I'm fairly certain we'll be twice as hard on him as any court in Britain.

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 01:22 PM
yeah I don't get your reasoning, Dave. He broke an American law on american soil. He should be tried in American court. I'm fairly certain we'll be twice as hard on him as any court in Britain.


Not just in anywhere in America either, in TEXAS. He's toast. :laugh:


~Amy

rockdawg21
11-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Not just in anywhere in America either, in TEXAS. He's toast. :laugh:


~Amy
LOL, no joke! If he wanted to be treated with "care and compassion" rather than what he deserved, he should have pulled this crap in Cali or New York with all the Dems. Come to Texas and you want to pull a gun, expect to have a gun pulled and used on you.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1077/1401852053_b380b1e63c.jpg :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

bradwright
11-08-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm going to agree with Amy on this one Dave,both her posts actually,( i would have quoted them both in my post but Bonnie hasn't shown me how to do that yet:sad: )
i think you might be missing one very important piece of information when it comes to extradition...if the American would have killed a Brit on British soil and then fled back to America and was caught then the British government could request he be extradited back to Britain to stand trial.....but in this case the American committed the crime in America....it doesn't matter in this situation where the victim was from,see where i'm going with this Dave ?

i hope that clear's things up a bit for you.:)

J.B.
11-08-2009, 01:59 PM
For the record....that song "Amarillo" does suck....

"Amarillo by Morning" is much better :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU5wnQBli2c

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 03:16 PM
For the record....that song "Amarillo" does suck....

"Amarillo by Morning" is much better :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU5wnQBli2c

Love that song. It will be going round in my head the rest of the day now.


~Amy

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 04:43 PM
You want an American to be sent to England to stand trial for a crime he committed in America? :blink: And what does that have to do with "friendly fire" in a war zone?


~Amy

Yes, because the Crime was Murder of a British Citizen

I was making a point about what the Americans demand from us on certain issues, and yet what they arent prepared to give back. By Treaty, the Americans can demand any British Person who they think has committed a crime against an American, or America, whether in America or not at the time the crime was committed, to be Deported to face American Justice. If Friendly Fire ever killed an American, you can bet damn sure that they would force the British to send over the Service Men for Enquiry. They need next to no evidence a Crime has been committed in order for this to happen.

England on the other hand...well America would simply refuse...WTF can we do about that :huh: They aint dumb enough to sign a pact that puts them on equal footing with their allies, let alone to the betterment of their friends


YES he would get the Death Sentance in Texas...but he'd die of old age before he gets toasted...in Britian he'd get life in prison...not the death penalty...but lets face it...he's unlikely to actually die in the chair before dying of natural causes...without the sentance being carried out, the judgement is just...well a technical pharse isnt it? The basis is he will be locked up forever in either country, but probably not killed. Well in the case...i'd rather he was locked up in a foreign country to his own. where his aids cant easily visit him, where he'll be "different" from everyone else. Where he'll be alone on an emotional and mental level. If he aint gonna hang, then he should suffer torture and be tormented.

We can offer that better then you, because we are not his home country, ergo, by definition, he is already segregated and tormented long before he ever reaches an English Prison.

What could be worse then life inprison away from home

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 04:48 PM
it doesn't matter in this situation where the victim was from,see where i'm going with this Dave ?



It matters to America, when it happens against one of them. See where I'm going Brad :ninja:

If you were to Murder an American outside of America...where do you thin you'd stand Trial? It probably wouldnt be in the country the crime was committed, because the American Administrations have a history of fighting tooth and nail for deportation so they may admonish.

Basically, they care for their citizens...and our Government probably couldnt care less...not if its committed in a First World Allied Nation...they probably shrugged in Westminster and havent even bothered asking America for a deportation.

:unsure-1:

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Dave, chill honey. In Texas, if he gets sentenced to death, he will die at the hands of the state. It might take 10 years but it'll happen. Texas has the fastest death sentence in the US. And yes, I am proud of that.

To address the friendly fire issue... I can guarantee that British friendly fire has killed at least one American. It happens. It's a war zone. Bullets are flying and it sucks to die at the hands of the good guys. But it's war, Dave. It should all be investigated to see how it can be prevented in the future but I do not believe that anyone should stand trial for an accidental friendly fire incident during war unless there was neglect or dereliction of duty happening. And it's a separate issue completely than the original article about extradition of this American guy to a FOREIGN country to stand trial for a crime committed in America.

I can't help that your country signed some treaty allowing something you don't like. I have not ever seen on our news that a crime committed in England by an English citizen against an American was being tried here in the US. I seriously doubt anything like that was ever asked for by our country. It may be in the treaty but it has not been enforced to my knowledge. These are issues you should deal with your politicians about, not blast us for on this forum. We are not ever going to send our citizens to another country for trial over a crime committed in America, Dave. Just not gonna happen. We aren't asking you to like it. It's just how it is and always will be. And yes, it is completely fair.


~Amy

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 05:04 PM
You guys Need to know about Gary McKinnon. He's an Aspurgers kid who hacked into several Computers in the United States including NASA and the Department of Defence. He was looking for Aliens.


The United States Government demand he be deported to face crimes and prison across in the United States.

Clearly he needs to face some kind of criminal prosecution, but he's mentally ill, he's got Aspurgers Syndrome, which notoriously makes people increadly bright as well as increadibly...well, Aspergers in Autism

So...do you send over the guy who was looking for Aliens to face a maximum security prison in the United States when he was in England committing the Crime...OR does he face English Law and probably end up in a mental institute

Well...Extradition Law means that the United States can call anyone who comitts a crime against them from abroad a Terrorist...as soon as they do that, He's classed under Terror Laws...and thats a very different catch of fish. Under the Extradition of Terrorists...the Americans have called all the Trumps since 2003...but...incidently...they dont have to give the UK any terrorists, or criminals of crimes against the UK if they were comitted by citizens at home in the United States.

Thats not Fair Play.

Look at how America reacted when the Libyan Terrorist was Released in Scotland. In theory, nothing to do with them because although it involved American Casualties, it wasnt purportrated in America...It was BEFORE the Treaty of Extradition that demands such a thing from the American point of view.

If the same thing happened again, it would never have fallen into Scotish hands in the first place.

Plainly, Citizens should be regarded as miniture Embassies of their home country, and Plainly, an act of injustice against them is an act of injustice against their state, and should be treated as such.

Ergo. I believe the the Libyan Bomber should still be in an AMERICAN Prison. I believe that Gary McKinnon should be deported to America...but I damn well believe that that Texan should be sent over sharpish to London.

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 05:15 PM
Dave, you're wrong. I'm not going to get into a long winded argument with you over this. We are not sending this Texan to your foreign country to stand trial and go to foreign prison. Period. I'd fight you myself over this one. Our citizen. Ours to kill. :laugh:

So what happened with that Asperger's kid? Did he get sent here to die? Or did ya'll keep him? I don't see Asperger's syndrome as the mental illness that you do. Those people are able to use logic. I say throw him in prison. I don't care where. If ya'll won't prosecute and punish him accordingly, let us do it. He doesn't need a mental institution.

To address the terrorist issue: I say we shoot them as soon as their trial is over. Period. No prison time, no goodbye to families and loved ones, no medical treatment. Just a nice bullet to the head.



~Amy

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Gary McKinnon committed a crime against the American government. That's different than the case you cited originally. Terrorists. Should. Be. Killed. Hacking into government computers is a terrorist act. He's lucky we aren't prosecuting with the death penalty on the table.


~Amy

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Gary McKinnon committed a crime against the American government. That's different than the case you cited originally. Terrorists. Should. Be. Killed. Hacking into government computers is a terrorist act. He's lucky we aren't prosecuting with the death penalty on the table.


~Amy

He's obviously not a terrorist...he's a mentally ill person whose got an autistic obsession about ET and an unparralleled skill, again due to the illness and looked in the one place he though he might find something

but as said...I aggree with you that he should be deported, because I dont believe a crime has nothing to do with the geography it has happened in.

I mean...as a Citizen of any country, when out of state, who do you represent?? Obviously, you represent your Country, and who runs the judicial system in your country? of course your government does.

So an act of Terror or a crime against a British citizen, is an act of Terror or a crime against the Crown...therefore its the Crown that should legislate.

You might not aggree...but tell me, thats not logical...its just a different way of thinking about who a person is when abroad isnt it :)

bradwright
11-08-2009, 05:27 PM
It matters to America, when it happens against one of them. See where I'm going Brad :ninja:

If you were to Murder an American outside of America...where do you thin you'd stand Trial? It probably wouldnt be in the country the crime was committed, because the American Administrations have a history of fighting tooth and nail for deportation so they may admonish.

Basically, they care for their citizens...and our Government probably couldnt care less...not if its committed in a First World Allied Nation...they probably shrugged in Westminster and havent even bothered asking America for a deportation.

:unsure-1:

i'm not sure where you get the idea that an incident like this committed in a different country with an American being the victim would cause the US gov to ask for extradition of the perp....it just simply wouldn't happen Dave.

and as far as the person that you were eluding to that committed a crime by computer was committing a crime against America from Britain not against an American in Britain....do you see the difference ?

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 05:29 PM
Dave, you're wrong. I'm not going to get into a long winded argument with you over this. We are not sending this Texan to your foreign country to stand trial and go to foreign prison. Period. I'd fight you myself over this one. Our citizen. Ours to kill. :laugh:

So what happened with that Asperger's kid? Did he get sent here to die? Or did ya'll keep him? I don't see Asperger's syndrome as the mental illness that you do. Those people are able to use logic. I say throw him in prison. I don't care where. If ya'll won't prosecute and punish him accordingly, let us do it. He doesn't need a mental institution.

To address the terrorist issue: I say we shoot them as soon as their trial is over. Period. No prison time, no goodbye to families and loved ones, no medical treatment. Just a nice bullet to the head.



~Amy

I think he's still fighting the Extradition order...and I think the US would use the Terror Laws to convict that they used to extradite...so I suppose it depends what level of hacking they consider is worthy of the death penalty.

As for the killing.

I aggree, they should be killed quickly...but Hanging is a much better method...and I'm not talking a long drop neither. :laugh:

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 05:32 PM
Dave, you're wrong. I'm not going to get into a long winded argument with you over this.

:laugh: you sound just like Mother :ashamed:

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 05:34 PM
He's obviously not a terrorist...he's a mentally ill person whose got an autistic obsession about ET and an unparralleled skill, again due to the illness and looked in the one place he though he might find something

but as said...I aggree with you that he should be deported, because I dont believe a crime has nothing to do with the geography it has happened in.

I mean...as a Citizen of any country, when out of state, who do you represent?? Obviously, you represent your Country, and who runs the judicial system in your country? of course your government does.

So an act of Terror or a crime against a British citizen, is an act of Terror or a crime against the Crown...therefore its the Crown that should legislate.

You might not aggree...but tell me, thats not logical...its just a different way of thinking about who a person is when abroad isnt it :)

An Asperger's person has Autistic tendencies when it comes to social cues and personal relationships. I know people with that diagnosis and most of them have very normal lives. I am not buying that he's as mentally ill as you think he is. He has trouble making friends. He can't read body language and nuance in conversation. He can, however, hold down a job and read and learn a trade. He could even become a mostly normal person who you'd never know had any mental problems. He may even learn to deal with his problems and get married and have friends. Now if he was truly Autistic, it would be different. Aspergers just really makes you extremely socially awkward. That's it.


~Amy

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 05:36 PM
I think he's still fighting the Extradition order...and I think the US would use the Terror Laws to convict that they used to extradite...so I suppose it depends what level of hacking they consider is worthy of the death penalty.

As for the killing.

I aggree, they should be killed quickly...but Hanging is a much better method...and I'm not talking a long drop neither. :laugh:

I'd rather they be shot. Hanging sometimes takes a while to kill them. I just want them dead. Then they should be buried in a some anonymous cemetery in unmarked graves.


~Amy

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 05:37 PM
:laugh: you sound just like Mother :ashamed:


:laugh: My patients sometimes get that same tone from me if they need a good spanking over bad behavior. It works. :wink:


~Amy

VCURamFan
11-08-2009, 06:01 PM
:laugh: My patients sometimes get that same tone from me if they need a good spanking over bad behavior. It works. :wink:


~Amy
:Whistle::happydancing:

Spiritwalker
11-08-2009, 07:32 PM
I'm going to agree with Amy on this one Dave,both her posts actually,( i would have quoted them both in my post but Bonnie hasn't shown me how to do that yet:sad: )
i think you might be missing one very important piece of information when it comes to extradition...if the American would have killed a Brit on British soil and then fled back to America and was caught then the British government could request he be extradited back to Britain to stand trial.....but in this case the American committed the crime in America....it doesn't matter in this situation where the victim was from,see where i'm going with this Dave ?

i hope that clear's things up a bit for you.:)


I agree with your agreement!!

Spiritwalker
11-08-2009, 07:36 PM
Page 6 of my passport says that I am subject to the laws of the country that I am visiting.

Meaning that if I do something wrong "there" I am in trouble "there".

The reverse of that is..

If I do something wrong here... I am in trouble "here".

No reason for the guy to have to go "over the pond" to face justice.

rockdawg21
11-08-2009, 10:06 PM
Dave, just tell all Brits if they want to commit a crime, especially one as serious as this one, don't commit it in Texas and maybe they have a chance of being extradited to Britain :laugh:

This is such a non-issue it's ridiculous.

TexasRN
11-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Dave, just tell all Brits if they want to commit a crime, especially one as serious as this one, don't commit it in Texas and maybe they have a chance of being extradited to Britain :laugh:

This is such a non-issue it's ridiculous.


Maybe Texas should offer to take care of criminals from other places. We have no problem with speedy trials and death penalties. We could charge a fee and it could even be made into a tourist trade. :laugh:


~Amy

rockdawg21
11-08-2009, 10:21 PM
Maybe Texas should offer to take care of criminals from other places. We have no problem with speedy trials and death penalties. We could charge a fee and it could even be made into a tourist trade. :laugh:


~Amy
Just let Texas take care of all criminals. It will certainly mean much less crimes committed because Texas solves the problems treating criminals with REAL "care and compassion" the same way they treat their victims with care and compassion.

VCURamFan
11-08-2009, 10:52 PM
BTW, Dave, I'd like to point out that your thread title means that a single shooting at a bar in Texas destroyed your entire nation.:laugh:

Spiritwalker
11-08-2009, 11:05 PM
BTW, Dave, I'd like to point out that your thread title means that a single shooting at a bar in Texas destroyed your entire nation.:laugh:


LOLOLOLOL.. wow.. TOTALLY missed that one.. Very funny...

or sadly true???

Nice Find Ben!!!!

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 11:47 PM
An Asperger's person has Autistic tendencies when it comes to social cues and personal relationships. I know people with that diagnosis and most of them have very normal lives. I am not buying that he's as mentally ill as you think he is. He has trouble making friends. He can't read body language and nuance in conversation. He can, however, hold down a job and read and learn a trade. He could even become a mostly normal person who you'd never know had any mental problems. He may even learn to deal with his problems and get married and have friends. Now if he was truly Autistic, it would be different. Aspergers just really makes you extremely socially awkward. That's it.


~Amy

No, it also effects what you think is acceptable. A lot of people with Aspergers and Autism have one or two things they are increadibly gifted at, skills in some way that they have because of the ailment.

Those social abnormalities are not the only symptom. Being Aspergers will have helpped him crack codes that he used to hack in the first place. He will probably have a gift for seeing patterns in numbers, or words, or something at a stupidly obsessive, yet increadibly impressive way.

I would say that someone with his gifts probably has quite serious autism...what? He broke into the highest computer security on the planet to...search for Aliens :huh:...and he got round the security of the United States Government more then anyone in the History of information technology?

this is not a normal person. He probably didnt even know what he was doing was completely wrong and criminal...and largely when he could have brought them to their knees...he did nothing...no virus, no leak of sensative material, no collection of information...because he was only interested in the Aliens.

The guy has the mentality of a child. He's not a threat...he's just a real dumbass...and I mean that in the physical and mental sense...he's actually only a child...whose not interested in causing Terror of any kind whatsoever....it was just important for him to find Aliens....

Thats only a true threat if the US Government actually does have Aliens. :laugh:

BUT, I also stick by my principles...it was a crime against America, it should be sorted by the Americans...I just think they should take into serious consideration that he meant zero harm whatsoever...he had ample opportunity to do unimaginable damage...and he didnt.

Tyburn
11-08-2009, 11:51 PM
:laugh: My patients sometimes get that same tone from me if they need a good spanking over bad behavior. It works. :wink:


~Amy

:laugh: Mothers Moniker is "Just because I dont care, doesnt mean I dont understand" :unsure-1:

TexasRN
11-09-2009, 03:04 AM
No, it also effects what you think is acceptable. A lot of people with Aspergers and Autism have one or two things they are increadibly gifted at, skills in some way that they have because of the ailment.

Those social abnormalities are not the only symptom. Being Aspergers will have helpped him crack codes that he used to hack in the first place. He will probably have a gift for seeing patterns in numbers, or words, or something at a stupidly obsessive, yet increadibly impressive way.

I would say that someone with his gifts probably has quite serious autism...what? He broke into the highest computer security on the planet to...search for Aliens :huh:...and he got round the security of the United States Government more then anyone in the History of information technology?

this is not a normal person. He probably didnt even know what he was doing was completely wrong and criminal...and largely when he could have brought them to their knees...he did nothing...no virus, no leak of sensative material, no collection of information...because he was only interested in the Aliens.

The guy has the mentality of a child. He's not a threat...he's just a real dumbass...and I mean that in the physical and mental sense...he's actually only a child...whose not interested in causing Terror of any kind whatsoever....it was just important for him to find Aliens....

Thats only a true threat if the US Government actually does have Aliens. :laugh:

BUT, I also stick by my principles...it was a crime against America, it should be sorted by the Americans...I just think they should take into serious consideration that he meant zero harm whatsoever...he had ample opportunity to do unimaginable damage...and he didnt.

Aspergers isn't as bad of a disorder as you think it is. Probably there are other diagnoses that would fit better or it's possible he has other issues in conjunction with aspergers.


~Amy

rockdawg21
11-09-2009, 03:13 AM
I thought aspergers was a type of vegetable. Is it a metaphor or something? :blink:

mscomc
11-09-2009, 03:28 AM
I thought aspergers was a type of vegetable. Is it a metaphor or something? :blink:

I think you are thinking of Asparagus....:laugh:

really sucky vegetable that kids probably try to fee to their pets during dinner, if their parents serve it to them.

VCURamFan
11-09-2009, 03:31 AM
I think you are thinking of Asparagus....:laugh:

really sucky vegetable that kids probably try to fee to their pets during dinner, if their parents serve it to them.
Hey, I love asparagus!!

rockdawg21
11-09-2009, 09:29 AM
Hey, I love asparagus!!
So, you're the pet the kids would try to feed it to! :Whistle:

Tyburn
11-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Aspergers isn't as bad of a disorder as you think it is. Probably there are other diagnoses that would fit better or it's possible he has other issues in conjunction with aspergers.


~Amy

Well, its bizzare you should say that, because it seems like a lot of mental health issues are inter-related...you know, you get one and you get "mild tendancies" of others also :blink:

Tyburn
11-09-2009, 11:00 AM
I thought aspergers was a type of vegetable. Is it a metaphor or something? :blink:

:laugh:

thats Asparagus

:laugh:

VCURamFan
11-09-2009, 02:51 PM
So, you're the pet the kids would try to feed it to! :Whistle:
Well, the ladies do say I'm a hound! Ah-roooooo!!!

rockdawg21
11-09-2009, 10:12 PM
Well, the ladies do say I'm a hound! Ah-roooooo!!!
How can you be a hound and a ram? It doesn't make any sense yo! :frantics:

rockdawg21
11-09-2009, 10:15 PM
:laugh:

thats Asparagus

:laugh:
Maybe you mean aspartame. Yeah, that's it! Aspartame.