PDA

View Full Version : Massive shooting at Ft. Hood, TX


Pages : [1] 2

rockdawg21
11-05-2009, 09:43 PM
As of now, up to 9 dead and 20 injured. Truly sad what's going on there!

Article:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html

Live feed:
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

Crisco
11-05-2009, 09:49 PM
Prayers already going on.

rockdawg21
11-05-2009, 09:49 PM
UPDATE directly from Ft. Hood:

- 12 people killed, 1 is a gunman involved in the shooting
- They believe there are 3 shooters involved in this shooting that started around 2:30pm EST
- 2 of the 3 are in custody, at least they get to serve justice! :punch:

rockdawg21
11-05-2009, 10:01 PM
UPDATE:

- 31 wounded :sad:

Play The Man
11-05-2009, 10:08 PM
Who else here thinks this has the signature of the "Religion of Peace"?

Play The Man
11-05-2009, 10:15 PM
If you live in the area, please donate blood - they are requesting it on cable news. Please pray for the victims.

MattHughesRocks
11-05-2009, 10:19 PM
They just said on the news that one of the gun men served in Iraq at some point and is/was a converted Islamic something or another...I just heard a part of it as I was turning the channels.

Who else here thinks this has the signature of the "Religion of Peace"?

Play The Man
11-05-2009, 10:22 PM
They just said on the news that one of the gun men served in Iraq at some point and is/was a converted Islamic something or another...I just heard a part of it as I was turning the channels.

I watched a live press conference and not one journalist asked the religion of the 3 suspects. Wouldn't want to be politically incorrect.

Play The Man
11-05-2009, 10:26 PM
Drudge Report is reporting the shooter - Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

Crisco
11-05-2009, 10:40 PM
alah ackbar right...


Please see my sig for my beliefs on the subject.

atomdanger
11-05-2009, 10:44 PM
The gunman was a soldier, and two other soldiers have been detained as suspects, Army Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said.

Man.. I wonder what happened?

flo
11-05-2009, 10:52 PM
God Bless the families of the victims, my heart goes out to them.

Bonnie
11-05-2009, 11:01 PM
Who else here thinks this has the signature of the "Religion of Peace"?

It does make you wonder... :angry:

It happened at the Soldier Readiness Center where the troops are prepared for deployment (as reported on CNN). I know we don't have much info yet, but still, I don't think it's a coincidence, the name of the dead shooter and where they chose to strike.

TexasRN
11-05-2009, 11:03 PM
I have family and friends there. Haven't heard from them yet. As far as I know none were gearing up for deployment soon so maybe they weren't in the area of the shooting. :cry:


~Amy

Bonnie
11-05-2009, 11:08 PM
I have family and friends there. Haven't heard from them yet. As far as I know none were gearing up for deployment soon so maybe they weren't in the area of the shooting. :cry:


~Amy

Can you text someone, Amy? They are asking people to text instead of call; all of the phone lines are clogged.

My oldest sister was born at Fort Hood.

I wonder if Nate went through Fort Hood; I believe he was Army. Maybe he can tell us about the base if he did. I did not realize Fort Hood was the largest military base in the world.

I'm saying prayers for everyone. Hope your family is okay Amy.

TexasRN
11-05-2009, 11:16 PM
Can you text someone, Amy? They are asking people to text instead of call; all of the phone lines are clogged.

My oldest sister was born at Fort Hood.

I wonder if Nate went through Fort Hood; I believe he was Army. Maybe he can tell us about the base if he did. I did not realize Fort Hood was the largest military base in the world.

I'm saying prayers for everyone. Hope your family is okay Amy.

Nate did his time at Ft Bliss I believe. That's in El Paso. I don't think he was ever at Ft Hood. I could be wrong though.

I am just waiting and praying. My ex father in law is there, a cousin, and several friends. I figure they'll send a message when they can. I am not a priority at the moment. They need to focus on taking care of their immediate family (wives and kids) and the ones who were wounded/killed and their families. That's who should come first. Not me. I'll wait nervously and pray.


~Amy

Play The Man
11-05-2009, 11:21 PM
CNN is reporting that the shooter was a physician.

J.B.
11-05-2009, 11:26 PM
More craziness in the world....:sad:

Prayers are definitely with everybody involved right now.

NateR
11-05-2009, 11:29 PM
Nate did his time at Ft Bliss I believe. That's in El Paso. I don't think he was ever at Ft Hood. I could be wrong though.


Actually I was stationed in Ft. Hood for 5 years (from 95-2000), I was only in Ft. Bliss for a year.

I was never in Ft. Hood after 9/11, so I only know of the post when it was open to the public. Back then, there were no active check points stopping people at the entrances. You could just take the exit off of the highway and drive right through the center of the base.

Ft. Hood is the biggest military base in the world and it's home to 3 Army Divisions. There were about 45,000 active duty troops stationed on Ft. Hood while I was there. Which was about the same amount of American soldiers stationed in the entire South Korean peninsula at the time. So the place is massive.

NateR
11-05-2009, 11:38 PM
Who else here thinks this has the signature of the "Religion of Peace"?

I think you are right on the money. Unfortunately, we have a limp-wristed Democrat in office once again, so this will be chalked up as some random incident unrelated to the War on Terror and be treated as a criminal case instead of an act of treason, which is what it is.

I think we really need to start re-evaluating whether Muslims should even be allowed to serve in our Armed Forces.

Bonnie
11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
I think you are right on the money. Unfortunately, we have a limp-wristed Democrat in office once again, so this will be chalked up as some random incident unrelated to the War on Terror and be treated as a criminal case instead of an act of treason, which is what it is.

I think we really need to start re-evaluating whether Muslims should even be allowed to serve in our Armed Forces.

I agree. Screw political correctness and all this nonsense (as far as criminal illegals and people like this and Americans converted to Islam) that it is/would be racial profiling. Their loyalty obviously is not with us.

Remember when the war first started and that American soldier (converted Muslim) killed several of his fellow soldiers in their tent.

Plus, this incident will only give others ideas of doing the same thing.

TexasRN
11-05-2009, 11:59 PM
Actually I was stationed in Ft. Hood for 5 years (from 95-2000), I was only in Ft. Bliss for a year.

I was never in Ft. Hood after 9/11, so I only know of the post when it was open to the public. Back then, there were no active check points stopping people at the entrances. You could just take the exit off of the highway and drive right through the center of the base.

Ft. Hood is the biggest military base in the world and it's home to 3 Army Divisions. There were about 45,000 active duty troops stationed on Ft. Hood while I was there. Which was about the same amount of American soldiers stationed in the entire South Korean peninsula at the time. So the place is massive.


Well I guess I suck at NateR trivia. :laugh: I knew Ft Bliss at least, do I get any points for that? :unsure-1:

It wasn't too hard to get on base as of a year ago. That's the last time I was there. I got on and have no military ID. They did a quick check of my driver's license and looked my car over. Then I was waved right on. I was visiting someone who works there. It's always that way. When I met Matt and Rich at Ft Sam Houston in Texas I got on very easily and so did Matt. Rich had problems. :laugh:


~Amy

J.B.
11-06-2009, 12:08 AM
I agree. Screw political correctness and all this nonsense (as far as criminal illegals and people like this and Americans converted to Islam) that it is/would be racial profiling. Their loyalty obviously is not with us.

I agree with you and Nate completely.

Vizion
11-06-2009, 12:19 AM
Another notable accomplihment by a Muslim-American :angry:

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 12:24 AM
Actually I was stationed in Ft. Hood for 5 years (from 95-2000), I was only in Ft. Bliss for a year.

I was never in Ft. Hood after 9/11, so I only know of the post when it was open to the public. Back then, there were no active check points stopping people at the entrances. You could just take the exit off of the highway and drive right through the center of the base.

Ft. Hood is the biggest military base in the world and it's home to 3 Army Divisions. There were about 45,000 active duty troops stationed on Ft. Hood while I was there. Which was about the same amount of American soldiers stationed in the entire South Korean peninsula at the time. So the place is massive.
Ft. Hood still has about that many active duty troops stationed there. The total population residing there is close to 80,000.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Drudge Report is reporting the shooter - Major Malik Nadal Hasan.
Saw that on Fox News and CNN. At what f'ing point can we just kick these Muslim buttholes out of the country and keep them out? This **** is f'ing ridiculous! It's rarely whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. doing this stuff in the world, it's Muslims. Seriously, at what point can we just start doing more to protect ourselves from this crap?

I'll bet Obama will still give praise to this guy for "serving our country".

que
11-06-2009, 12:41 AM
a muslim in texas killing a dozen soldiers? oh man, this guy has got it coming. death sentence for SURE. they will probably speed up the process too. wouldn't be surprised if he is executed within a year

bradwright
11-06-2009, 12:45 AM
a muslim in texas killing a dozen soldiers? oh man, this guy has got it coming. death sentence for SURE. they will probably speed up the process too. wouldn't be surprised if he is executed within a year

he is already dead.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 12:47 AM
a muslim in texas killing a dozen soldiers? oh man, this guy has got it coming. death sentence for SURE. they will probably speed up the process too. wouldn't be surprised if he is executed within a year

He received his death sentence within minutes . . . gunned down by a police officer.

Neezar
11-06-2009, 12:58 AM
a muslim in texas killing a dozen soldiers? oh man, this guy has got it coming. death sentence for SURE. they will probably speed up the process too. wouldn't be surprised if he is executed within a year

he is already dead.


:doh:

:laugh:

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 01:03 AM
Saw that on Fox News and CNN. At what f'ing point can we just kick these Muslim buttholes out of the country and keep them out? This **** is f'ing ridiculous! It's rarely whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. doing this stuff in the world, it's Muslims. Seriously, at what point can we just start doing more to protect ourselves from this crap?

I'll bet Obama will still give praise to this guy for "serving our country".

this is a truly sad event, but do you really think they should get rid of the first amendment? i mean, others who try to do the same whether it is the second amendment or whatever are considered unAmerican because they are trying to ruin the US constitution ...

And then the comments about obama being weak and going to praise this guy ... LOL .. or democrats wanting to be politically correct ... LOL ...

Miss Foxy
11-06-2009, 01:10 AM
This is a very sad event and along with most AMERICANS I am shocked and angered! However lets focus on praying for the families and community affected by this tragedy...:sad:

NateR
11-06-2009, 01:11 AM
this is a truly sad event, but do you really think they should get rid of the first amendment? i mean, others who try to do the same whether it is the second amendment or whatever are considered unAmerican because they are trying to ruin the US constitution ...

And then the comments about obama being weak and going to praise this guy ... LOL .. or democrats wanting to be politically correct ... LOL ...

When you enlist in the US military, you are specifically asked if you belong or have ever belonged to any group that seeks to overthrow the US government. If you answer 'yes' then you are not allowed to enlist. I simply believe that Muslims need to be considered a group that seeks to overthrow the US government and thus they should not be allowed to serve in our military.

As for the radical Muslim groups within the US, I believe they need to be rooted out and eliminated immediately.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 01:12 AM
a muslim in texas killing a dozen soldiers? oh man, this guy has got it coming. death sentence for SURE. they will probably speed up the process too. wouldn't be surprised if he is executed within a year

he is already dead.

:doh:

:laugh:

Like the great Ron White says:

"I'm from Texas and we have the death penalty and we, uuuuuuuse it! That's right, if you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back...that's our policy! They're trying to pass a bill right now through the Texas Legislature that'll speed up the process of execution in haness crimes where there's more than 3 credible eye witnesses. If more than 3 people saw you do what you did, you don't sit on death row for 15 years Jack, you go straight to the front of the line. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty...my state's putting in an express lane!"

Justice has been served. Let him have his "100 virgins" from Mohammed (aka, the Devil), he's gone now, **** him.

J.B.
11-06-2009, 01:13 AM
When you enlist in the US military, you are specifically asked if you belong or have ever belonged to any group that seeks to overthrow the US government. If you answer 'yes' then you are not allowed to enlist. I simply believe that Muslims need to be considered a group that seeks to overthrow the US government and thus they should not be allowed to serve in our military.

As for the radical Muslim groups within the US, I believe they need to be rooted out and eliminated immediately.

Agreed.

This is not a free speech issue, this is an issue of national security.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 01:15 AM
When you enlist in the US military, you are specifically asked if you belong or have ever belonged to any group that seeks to overthrow the US government. If you answer 'yes' then you are not allowed to enlist. I simply believe that Muslims need to be considered a group that seeks to overthrow the US government and thus they should not be allowed to serve in our military.

As for the radical Muslim groups within the US, I believe they need to be rooted out and eliminated immediately.

that is different than saying that muslims need to be thrown out of the country .... and even if they instill it, there are going to be people saying they aren't muslims when they really are ... and i agree they need to get rid of the radical groups within the US also ...

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 01:15 AM
this is a truly sad event, but do you really think they should get rid of the first amendment? i mean, others who try to do the same whether it is the second amendment or whatever are considered unAmerican because they are trying to ruin the US constitution ...

And then the comments about obama being weak and going to praise this guy ... LOL .. or democrats wanting to be politically correct ... LOL ...
I didn't say get rid of the First Amendment. I said kick these buttholes the **** outta the country. At the very least, I agree with Nate, no f'ing Muslims in our military.

Obama is weak. He is a pussy who hasn't lived up to any of his obligations. Goinig around apologizing for "our mistakes" like a little bitch. We're fighting back against oppression. It's nothing more than what Susan B. Anthony or Malcolm X, except the Muslims respond with deadly force, so that's how we should respond. Our Congress and Executive branch are full of weak, wimpy pussies and many of the other people in this country are influenced by this BS and all the BS that gets spewed from the media telling us to be tolerant of Muslims because they're a victim. It's a cop-out.

EDIT: Perhaps I'm saying some things out of anger at this time, but I still don't have any problems kicking Muslims out of the U.S. as it's a matter of National Security.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 01:29 AM
Just a question ... on army bases, are the soldiers armed? i don't understand how a police officer was able to shoot this guy before a soldier .. again, if soldiers aren't typically armed (which makes sense) then i could understand it ...

TexasRN
11-06-2009, 01:37 AM
Just a question ... on army bases, are the soldiers armed? i don't understand how a police officer was able to shoot this guy before a soldier .. again, if soldiers aren't typically armed (which makes sense) then i could understand it ...


The soldiers don't walk around base armed. There are MPs and guards who act as the police presence and have weapons but the regular soldiers don't have guns to tote around everywhere they go.


~Amy

NateR
11-06-2009, 01:38 AM
Just a question ... on army bases, are the soldiers armed? i don't understand how a police officer was able to shoot this guy before a soldier .. again, if soldiers aren't typically armed (which makes sense) then i could understand it ...

Soldiers don't walk around armed when on base unless they are deployed to a hazardous duty environment. When not in use, weapons are locked away in an Arms Room and even when you sign them out, you never get ammunition unless you are on the firing range; but you are not allowed to take any ammunition off the range. You can actually go to prison for many years if you are found in possession of a single unauthorized round of ammunition. So, the only soldiers on Ft. Hood who would have been armed would be the Military Police.

In other words, military bases have the strictest form of gun control that we will ever know and look how well it's working for them. :dry:

TexasRN
11-06-2009, 01:39 AM
I heard from my buddy David. He's actually at Ft Rucker for training and he said that the men in his unit are fine as far as he knows. They weren't gearing up for deployment. So as far as my loved ones go, all are safe. I would have heard by now if my family members were wounded.


~Amy

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 01:41 AM
I heard from my buddy David. He's actually at Ft Rucker for training and he said that the men in his unit are fine as far as he knows. They weren't gearing up for deployment. So as far as my loved ones go, all are safe. I would have heard by now if my family members were wounded.


~Amy
That's good to hear Amy :)

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 01:41 AM
I heard from my buddy David. He's actually at Ft Rucker for training and he said that the men in his unit are fine as far as he knows. They weren't gearing up for deployment. So as far as my loved ones go, all are safe. I would have heard by now if my family members were wounded.


~Amy

That's a relief ... glad to hear ...

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 01:42 AM
The soldiers don't walk around base armed. There are MPs and guards who act as the police presence and have weapons but the regular soldiers don't have guns to tote around everywhere they go.


~Amy

ahh, that would explain it ... thanks ...

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 01:49 AM
I'll bet Obama decides to have a beer summit with the other 2 suspects, pardon them, apologize for Americas' mistakes, then send them to a tropical paradise at taxpayers' expense. :blink:

Ricky
11-06-2009, 01:55 AM
extremely sad time !! i share your pain

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 02:13 AM
that is different than saying that muslims need to be thrown out of the country .... and even if they instill it, there are going to be people saying they aren't muslims when they really are ... and i agree they need to get rid of the radical groups within the US also ...

How about never let them enter the country in the first place? Perhaps a moratorium on immigration and tourist visas from Muslim countries. Nobody has a right to immigrate to or visit this country. It is a privilege. Privileges can be withdrawn.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 02:19 AM
I just saw a press conference that reported that the suspect did not die!:angry: He is alive and in the hospital.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 02:28 AM
How about never let them enter the country in the first place? Perhaps a moratorium on immigration and tourist visas from Muslim countries. Nobody has a right to immigrate to or visit this country. It is a privilege. Privileges can be withdrawn.
Same with driving, it is a privilege given by the state. This privilege is withdrawn when it is abused too.

I just saw a press conference that reported that the suspect did not die!:angry: He is alive and in the hospital.
I just read that too, so that's good, now Obama can pardon him, apologize for Americas' mistakes, and send him to a tropical paradise at our expense...justice served Democrat style.

J.B.
11-06-2009, 02:29 AM
extremely sad time !! i share your pain

Ricky!!! :w00t:

How you been man?!?

mscomc
11-06-2009, 02:31 AM
Saw that on Fox News and CNN. At what f'ing point can we just kick these Muslim buttholes out of the country and keep them out? This **** is f'ing ridiculous! It's rarely whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. doing this stuff in the world, it's Muslims. Seriously, at what point can we just start doing more to protect ourselves from this crap?

I'll bet Obama will still give praise to this guy for "serving our country".


******First of all, my prayers and thoughts with the victims families*******

Perhaps you are saying the aforementioned out of anger, and that is a normal thing and understandable thing to do...but nevertheless;

1) you say its rarely: whites, blacks, hispanics, asians----first of all, these are races of people you are mentioning based on geographic location and physical features. Islam is a religion followed by about 1/5th of the world.

2) I only mention the part up above because what you are saying sounds an awful lot along the lines of when jappanese americans...WHO WERE BORN AND RAISED IN AMERICA JUST LIKE YOU; hardworking, law abiding people, were put into god forsaken internment camps during WW II.

3) This guy at least from what i read from MSNBC/NBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33695256/ns/us_news-military/) was born and raised in Virgina, and had served in the Military since 1997 when he was an ROTC for med school.

What makes you any more american than him? It cant be the simple fact that you happen to come out of your mother on american soil? because so did he. True, he is a killer, and justice has been done unto him.

This attack sounds more criminal than terrorist motivated.

TexasRN
11-06-2009, 02:34 AM
I just saw a press conference that reported that the suspect did not die!:angry: He is alive and in the hospital.


I bet they move him out of Texas asap.


~Amy

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 02:34 AM
******First of all, my prayers and thoughts with the victims families*******

Perhaps you are saying the aforementioned out of anger, and that is a normal thing and understandable thing to do...but nevertheless;

1) you say its rarely: whites, blacks, hispanics, asians----first of all, these are races of people you are mentioning based on geographic location and physical features. Islam is a religion followed by about 1/5th of the world.

2) I only mention the part up above because what you are saying sounds an awful lot along the lines of when jappanese americans...WHO WERE BORN AND RAISED IN AMERICA JUST LIKE YOU; hardworking, law abiding people, were put into god forsaken internment camps during WW II.

3) This guy at least from what i read from MSNBC/NBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33695256/ns/us_news-military/) was born and raised in Virgina, and had served in the Military since 1997 when he was an ROTC for med school.

What makes you any more american than him? It cant be the simple fact that you happen to come out of your mother on american soil? because so did he. True, he is a killer, and justice has been done unto him.

This attack sounds more criminal than terrorist motivated.
1) Yes, you're correct, but that group of people are the ones pulling the majority of this crap.

2) I'm not saying put them into camps, I'm saying kick them out of the country. The aforementioned was due to national security, not racism.

3) Being born here does NOT make one an American! This man is FAR from an American. He is a coward pussy who was also a radical Muslim. Have you been watching the news and hearing the words this man has said to his superiors and other psychiatrists in the military? Or his own cousins' testimonial?

And actually, justice hasn't been done yet, he is still alive :(

mscomc
11-06-2009, 02:50 AM
1) Yes, you're correct, but that group of people are the ones pulling the majority of this crap.

2) I'm not saying put them into camps, I'm saying kick them out of the country. The aforementioned was due to national security, not racism.

3) Being born here does NOT make one an American! This man is FAR from an American. He is a coward pussy who was also a radical Muslim. Have you been watching the news and hearing the words this man has said to his superiors and other psychiatrists in the military? Or his own cousins' testimonial?

And actually, justice hasn't been done yet, he is still alive :(

he didn't die...you are right. When i originally posted that, i hadnt watched the latest news update. Ok, so justice still remains be seen.

Ok so I guess what i was trying to get across is, what is defined as an american then?

1) I always saw it in its simplicity (as with any other nation in my oppinion), that if you are born in the country, and more over: raised, educated, lived in that country, then you are a citizen of that country.

2) I have also seen being a citizen of country as anyone: who has escaped: poverty, persecution, murder, rioting or anything else in some god forsaken country...hopped on some boat and took a 2 week trip in the hope that they may find peace and happiness in another country (ie:america) to be a citizen of that country-------but maybe im a little sentimental about this issue.

***** This guy was also an ARMED FORCES member.....ARE YOU AN ARMED FORCES MEMBER? have you ever been one? this guys job was to help other soldiers, how does it get any more american?. I see it really as a case of the "Shrink" who finally snapped himself, and went on a rampage.

So if other muslims who were born here are not american, than what makes YOU so special is what I am asking? Why shoudlnt we throw you out as well?

a) is that you have a family? ----muslim americans have families as well

b) is that you work hard and pay your taxes?---musllim americans work hard, pay their taxes and many are employed in greats jobs such as: medicine, law, engineering, accounting, law enforcement etc etc

c) Is it that you obey the law of the land? Majority of muslim americans are law abiding citizens, who probably condem what this guy has done.

------- It really saddens me to say so, but it appears as though your motivation is very discriminatory and hate fueld......please correct if I am wrong. And if I am wrong about your position, then my most humble apologies.

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 02:52 AM
I thought there were three of them.One dead, one arrested and one on the lose.

NateR
11-06-2009, 02:53 AM
Ok so I guess what i was trying to get across is, what is defined as an american then?


As soon as he opened fire and began killing American soldiers in cold blood, then he ceased to be an American. I don't care what his past consisted of before that.

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 02:56 AM
Here is a little on him

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html

mscomc
11-06-2009, 03:00 AM
As soon as he opened fire and began killing American soldiers in cold blood, then he ceased to be an American. I don't care what his past consisted of before that.

Ok fair enough....i agree with that. But what is your position than on what rockdawg said.....that all muslims should be kicked out of america. Surely not all muslims in america (epsically ones born here, exception of this guy obviously and another small minority) are shooting american soldiers......

Do you agree with what Rockawg21 said in that regard? just curious is all....

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 03:00 AM
As soon as he opened fire and began killing American soldiers in cold blood, then he ceased to be an American. I don't care what his past consisted of before that.
What Nate said is part of the point I'm trying to make.

The bigger picture is that it's virtually only Muslims who are doing this crap. To better protect ourselves, just kick them all out of the country and close the borders to them. This is singling out a group, that's true, but it's a matter of national security, not a matter of racism, hatred, or bigotry.

Keep in mind, I'm 7/8 white 1/8 Sioux, married to an Asian, my roommate in college was black, I buy skin care products from a Jew, I sell library books to Hispanics and have even sold to a few Muslims.

The more of them who are allowed into this country exponentially increases the chance these types of attacks can and will happen again.

que
11-06-2009, 03:02 AM
He received his death sentence within minutes . . . gunned down by a police officer.

:doh:

:laugh:


gunned down, yes. but dead, no. he's still alive.

mscomc
11-06-2009, 03:04 AM
What Nate said is part of the point I'm trying to make.

The bigger picture is that it's virtually only Muslims who are doing this crap. To better protect ourselves, just kick them all out of the country and close the borders to them. This is singling out a group, that's true, but it's a matter of national security, not a matter of racism, hatred, or bigotry.

Ok maybe im not understaning than and sorry for that.

Are you saying kick out those were born here? or those who immigrated? ----i think you are wrong on both accounts....but the ones who were born and raised here and made their lives here, where are you going to kick them out to? the pacific ocean? where are they suppose to go? america is their home, LIKE IT IS YOUR HOME....

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 03:08 AM
Ok maybe im not understaning than and sorry for that.

Are you saying kick out those were born here? or those who immigrated? ----i think you are wrong on both accounts....but the ones who were born and raised here and made their lives here, where are you going to kick them out to? the pacific ocean? where are they suppose to go? america is their home, LIKE IT IS YOUR HOME....
I don't care, give them a 1-way ticket to the poorest Muslim country and see how much the miss the fact they have FREEDOM in America.
Many of these people, such as this doctor who was born here, converted later in life and now he decided to blow up. It can and will happen again because we should all be so "tolerant" of others' beliefs.

que
11-06-2009, 03:08 AM
What Nate said is part of the point I'm trying to make.

The bigger picture is that it's virtually only Muslims who are doing this crap. To better protect ourselves, just kick them all out of the country and close the borders to them. This is singling out a group, that's true, but it's a matter of national security, not a matter of racism, hatred, or bigotry.

america has never kicked any race out of our country and they never will. it would go against the constitution that this being the land of the free regardless of race and if you become an american citizen then you are an american as much as anyone else, regardless of where your blood is from.

as far as kicking out muslims in america who are not american citizens then that could possibly happen, but not to muslims who are american citizens, including the one who gunned down all the soldiers, for instance.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 03:10 AM
america has never kicked any race out of our country and they never will. it would go against the constitution that this being the land of the free regardless of race and if you become an american citizen then you are an american as much as anyone else, regardless of where your blood is from.

as far as kicking out muslims in america who are not american citizens then that could possibly happen, but not to muslims who are american citizens, including the one who gunned down all the soldiers, for instance.
Yeah, I know, I'm just speaking my peace, or maybe just venting, lol :)

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 03:14 AM
Ok maybe im not understaning than and sorry for that.

Are you saying kick out those were born here? or those who immigrated? ----i think you are wrong on both accounts....but the ones who were born and raised here and made their lives here, where are you going to kick them out to? the pacific ocean? where are they suppose to go? america is their home, LIKE IT IS YOUR HOME....
I guess what I'm trying to say is, the only true way to solve the problem is to disallow Muslims the right to live here. I know it won't ever happen, I'm just saying it's the only true solution, at least that I can think of.

mscomc
11-06-2009, 03:19 AM
I guess what I'm trying to say is, the only true way to solve the problem is to disallow Muslims the right to live here. I know it won't ever happen, I'm just saying it's the only true solution, at least that I can think of.


I see what you are saying. I absolutely disagree with it, but hey, being able to freely express your oppinion is what made nations like america great :) (im not being sarcastic, just in case)

oooo i gotta go work tomorrow. Have a good night sir!

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 03:23 AM
gunned down, yes. but dead, no. he's still alive.

You are correct; however, for several hours all the news outlets were reporting that he died. In an evening press conference an Army official corrected the record.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 03:24 AM
I see what you are saying. I absolutely disagree with it, but hey, being able to freely express your oppinion is what made nations like america great :) (im not being sarcastic, just in case)
LOL, of course :laugh:

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 04:43 AM
When you enlist in the US military, you are specifically asked if you belong or have ever belonged to any group that seeks to overthrow the US government. If you answer 'yes' then you are not allowed to enlist. I simply believe that Muslims need to be considered a group that seeks to overthrow the US government and thus they should not be allowed to serve in our military.

As for the radical Muslim groups within the US, I believe they need to be rooted out and eliminated immediately.

Agreed!!!

But we have to remember that there are some very law abiding and good people in this country and born in this country...

there are even some American Muslims that were not born in this country that serve in high office...

We have to remember that many Americans didn't want Kennedy as president cause he was catholic.

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 04:46 AM
How about never let them enter the country in the first place? Perhaps a moratorium on immigration and tourist visas from Muslim countries. Nobody has a right to immigrate to or visit this country. It is a privilege. Privileges can be withdrawn.


Well Said!!

NateR
11-06-2009, 05:23 AM
We have to remember that many Americans didn't want Kennedy as president cause he was catholic.

Well, in some circles, Catholics are actually lumped in with Christians. Islam declares ALL Christians (including Catholics) as infidels who must be slaughtered. While there has been a history of Catholic vs. Protestant violence in Europe, it hasn't really been much of a problem here in America. Plus Catholic terrorists hadn't flown any airliners into skyscrapers, killing thousands of people, in the years before JFK was elected and we weren't at war with any Catholic nations back then either.

So the situations are more than a little dissimilar.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 05:25 AM
For the last 10 minutes I was sitting here reading each and every post that y'all wrote regarding this topic. I read some good posts and then there was this mscomc guy that posted. I do not agree with you at all. I am sick and tired of people voicing their opinion and then backing down because they may have said what they truly felt. We know we have one truth out of all this mess. We have dead American soldiers. That hurts me. What else hurts me is that they died getting ready to defend our country and their is some butt hole on here stating that muslims are American citizens and more so citizens than some of us on here. The guy may have served in our Military but he was no citizen and for the love of our Armed Forces do no ever say he was one of us again. He was not any kind of American. Why did he kill? Oh because he had rage and this should be considered criminal. Dude you are a coward just like our president.
Mark my words. This isn't over. This same Muslim crap is going to cause us true Americans to get pissed and take action into our own hands. Please explain to me why ALL MUSLIMS should not be shipped away into the middle of the Atlantic and be thrown overboard. This is going to far and is getting carried away. Please stand up for our Country. If you don't like our country then get the hell out of it.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 05:30 AM
I blame Obama. I blame the people who voted for that sorry Muslim S.O.B. This would not have happened if Mccain was in Office. Mccain was a true american hero who should have been president over Obama. This country is going down fast. We need to start talking about impeaching that guy before he ruins our great Country.

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 05:37 AM
I don't like Obama just as much as the next guy but I seriously doubt this is his fault :laugh:

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 05:37 AM
This incident is highly suspicious of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome". The shooter reportedly was shouting in Arabic during the shooting http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=18503e97f397c039 (I will bet a year's salary that the words in Arabic were "Allahu Akhbar!"). The shooter posted this on the internet several months ago:

There was a grenade thrown amongs [sic] a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally [sic] took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled [sic] this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees [sic] in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i [sic] you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that "IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE" and Allah (SWT) knows best.

I doubt he was in contact with Al-Qaeda. He is probably like the North Carolina student Taheri-azar, who ran down his fellow students with his SUV; or Haq, who gunned down women at the Seattle Jewish Federation. His religion and mosque teach that dirty kafirs are inferior to Muslims. Jews and Christian are the offspring of apes and pigs. When the Muslim sees with his own eyes that Christians, Jews and Secularists have built societies that are more prosperous, more free, more powerful, etc., the Muslim becomes incredibly jealous and homicidal - the genesis of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome"

I just happened to watch the movie Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against The West last night. When the reports started today, I immediately suspected a Muslim, before they mentioned a name. Do yourself a favor and get Obsession from Netflix http://obsessionthemovie.com/

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 05:45 AM
The reason I blame Obama is because he is sending out the wrong message by being a muslim his self. Obama should not be blamed for the men dieing but Obama could be more supportive for our troops and listen to our generals. Obama only cares about one thing and that's himself. Obama have brought in more Marxist and people who don't believe in God to run our country. Mr. Bush should have gotten rid of the muslims in the military when he was president. This just sickens me to see our military die on our home land to a damn terrorist attack. That's all this is. Please see the conection. Obama doesn't care about us.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 05:48 AM
For the last 10 minutes I was sitting here reading each and every post that y'all wrote regarding this topic. I read some good posts and then there was this mscomc guy that posted. I do not agree with you at all. I am sick and tired of people voicing their opinion and then backing down because they may have said what they truly felt. We know we have one truth out of all this mess. We have dead American soldiers. That hurts me. What else hurts me is that they died getting ready to defend our country and their is some butt hole on here stating that muslims are American citizens and more so citizens than some of us on here. The guy may have served in our Military but he was no citizen and for the love of our Armed Forces do no ever say he was one of us again. He was not any kind of American. Why did he kill? Oh because he had rage and this should be considered criminal. Dude you are a coward just like our president.
Mark my words. This isn't over. This same Muslim crap is going to cause us true Americans to get pissed and take action into our own hands. Please explain to me why ALL MUSLIMS should not be shipped away into the middle of the Atlantic and be thrown overboard. This is going to far and is getting carried away. Please stand up for our Country. If you don't like our country then get the hell out of it.

I, too, believe there is a significant danger from Radical Islam. I, too, believe that McCain would have made a stronger president than Obama. However, I think you need to cool down and reconsider your posts. Take a break and look at the UFC posts. Suggesting that ALL MUSLIMS be thrown overboard in the Atlantic ocean is wrong. You are rightfully angry, but making outrageous statements just hurts your side in the long run.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 05:56 AM
I agree play the man. But where else could we ship them too. Prolly just venting from the sadness of our soldiers dieing for no reason. I love the military. I love my country. I am sick and tired of crap like this happening. This is a major issue in America. The hell with the health care issues right now. Protect our country then worry about health care later.
I know some of you talk about justice but what kind of justice do you think these guys deserve. Do you think they deserve to be put to death by electric chair or by gas. I think these guys need to suffer. They killed our troops. They killed kids daddies. This is a sad day in America. This is almost the equivalent of a minor 9-11-01

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 06:09 AM
Look here people. I know a lot of time you disagree with me. I for one am proud to be called an American. To me being an American is close to being in heaven. I love this place and I respect each of our services across this great land. When someone shoots a cop or kills a bunch of soldiers I cry. I love what they do just so I can go to Walmart at 2:30 in the morning if I choose. I love that they put their life on th eline each and every day just so I can go to Mcdonalds or do what i want to do. They don't even know me but yet they die for me. That my friends is love. That my friends is something only Jesus himself gave. they put their lifes on the line for us. And what do we do. We take advantage of the fact and don't spend enough time to think them personally. Tonight I will do my part to Honor our soldiers for the rest of my life. I will let each and everyone of them know that I thank them. Please tonight before you go to bed. Please pray for them and their families. I ask you to do this even if you don't believe in God. Do it for them. Do it because your Americans.
While we have troops overseas please donate books and magazines and what ever these guys need to our soldiers. Please.

mscomc
11-06-2009, 06:17 AM
For the last 10 minutes I was sitting here reading each and every post that y'all wrote regarding this topic. I read some good posts and then there was this mscomc guy that posted. I do not agree with you at all. I am sick and tired of people voicing their opinion and then backing down because they may have said what they truly felt. We know we have one truth out of all this mess. We have dead American soldiers. That hurts me. What else hurts me is that they died getting ready to defend our country and their is some butt hole on here stating that muslims are American citizens and more so citizens than some of us on here. The guy may have served in our Military but he was no citizen and for the love of our Armed Forces do no ever say he was one of us again. He was not any kind of American. Why did he kill? Oh because he had rage and this should be considered criminal. Dude you are a coward just like our president.
Mark my words. This isn't over. This same Muslim crap is going to cause us true Americans to get pissed and take action into our own hands. Please explain to me why ALL MUSLIMS should not be shipped away into the middle of the Atlantic and be thrown overboard. This is going to far and is getting carried away. Please stand up for our Country. If you don't like our country then get the hell out of it.

----Well, I actually didnt mean to post again before the end of the night, I only came on again in case Rockdawg replied to me last post of me "wishing him a good night" :)


So I am a 'butthole' am I? Ha, did you have think real hard to come up with that one? I hope you didn't hurt yourself! What are you in the 6th grade?

And I also see that I am a coward? Ok, says the big tough guy talking over the internet:Whistle: Sounds like you have irritable bowel syndrome, get more fiber in your diet :laugh:

I can see that you are obviously upset over what happened today, and that is understandable, and I am glad you support your nation and military, but petty name calling and insults? Like it or not pal, there are muslim's who were born and raised in America, and have made good lives for themselves in many honorable professions, and they are CITIZENS. Also, I may not agree with alot of what PLAY THE MAN says, but he is right, re-think your posts ....OH SNAP! I just had an epiphany. You are probably just real mad because there is a muslim guy you know of that has a real high paying job, and you are stuck in some crappy dead end job, scraping crap of the side of the road!!!! yeah that must be it. Seeeeeeee, its not nice when people throw stupid insults around is it?

And for the record, if you are able to read in the top right corner of my posting avatar, you will see I live in CANADA. So, you don't have to worry about me "GETTING THE HELL OUT".

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 06:23 AM
I agree play the man. But where else could we ship them too. Prolly just venting from the sadness of our soldiers dieing for no reason. I love the military. I love my country. I am sick and tired of crap like this happening. This is a major issue in America. The hell with the health care issues right now. Protect our country then worry about health care later.
I know some of you talk about justice but what kind of justice do you think these guys deserve. Do you think they deserve to be put to death by electric chair or by gas. I think these guys need to suffer. They killed our troops. They killed kids daddies. This is a sad day in America. This is almost the equivalent of a minor 9-11-01

I am sure some of the scummy lawyers, treacherous Muslims, good-for-nothing leftists, etc. will crawl out from under their rocks and defend this guy. Fortunately, he will be tried by military justice. Hopefully, the trial will happen in Texas. He will not make it to the electric chair if his fellow prisoners get a hold of him.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 06:27 AM
Well since you live in Canada that explains it. Note to you. If you did not notice our people voted in the same kind of person we are at war with. You're right though about he makes more money then I do. Guess what though. I earn mine the right way. I am an owner of three businesses in South Carolina. I was raised up with nothing. I couldn't graduate because I had to work to help support my family because my dad left my mom when I was 16. I learned a lot about life at a young age and I owe everything to our Country. Well my Country since I'm talk to you. I was out of line by insulting you and I am man enough to admit that. I came home tonight and got on here and the first thing I see was a massive shooting. My day went from good to bad in a flash because of the love I have for good honest Christian people this country was founded over. These are my brothers and sisters and I do love what they do for people like me. They die for us. Something you canadians know nothing about. J/k. There is only a couple things that really tear me up and that's some one insulting God and someone killing our Soldiers. You will never understand where I am coming from because I happen to live in the greatest country in the world.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 06:35 AM
I will leave Y'all with this poem. Thanks for reading. God Bless

They were brothers and sisters, husbands and wives.
Who answered the call and gave their lives.
From times of old to times of new,
They stood watching guard the whole year through.
And now all they get is just one day,
When people fly flags and stand up and say:
"Let's remember the lives we lost,
Let's not forget what our freedom has cost."
But why only one day if they paid the price?
They deserve EVERYDAY for their sacrifice.
We'll remember the past and those who still fight,
Caught in the middle of making things right.
They all feel the pain of being alone,
Far from their families miles from home.
They never forget the danger they place themselves in,
They know what they're fighting for they're determined to win.
This day brings great pride to soldiers present and past,
They know what it takes to make freedom last.
So let's remember today but that shouldn't be all,
Remember EVERYDAY to those that answered the call.
Show your support, swell up with pride,
For those who still fight and for those who have died.
Let your flag wave the whole year through,
And show your support for the RED, WHITE AND BLUE!!!

I got this from http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/12707/Poems-to-Soldiers

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 07:10 AM
Look here people. I know a lot of time you disagree with me. I for one am proud to be called an American. To me being an American is close to being in heaven. I love this place and I respect each of our services across this great land. When someone shoots a cop or kills a bunch of soldiers I cry. I love what they do just so I can go to Walmart at 2:30 in the morning if I choose. I love that they put their life on th eline each and every day just so I can go to Mcdonalds or do what i want to do. They don't even know me but yet they die for me. That my friends is love. That my friends is something only Jesus himself gave. they put their lifes on the line for us. And what do we do. We take advantage of the fact and don't spend enough time to think them personally. Tonight I will do my part to Honor our soldiers for the rest of my life. I will let each and everyone of them know that I thank them. Please tonight before you go to bed. Please pray for them and their families. I ask you to do this even if you don't believe in God. Do it for them. Do it because your Americans.
While we have troops overseas please donate books and magazines and what ever these guys need to our soldiers. Please.

I agree, we need to be grateful to our soldiers. We should all do something concrete. Donate money to a good military charity like the USO http://www.uso.org/. Donate air miles or money to Fisher House http://www.fisherhouse.org/ so military families can visit wounded soldiers in military hospitals. Adopt a soldier with Soldiers' Angels http://soldiersangels.org/ I am now on my third soldier and it has been an excellent experience. They are currently in need of 1,980 people to send letters and care packages to soldiers. Donate money to help wounded soldiers at the Wounded Warrior Project https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,840/

Don't take your anger with Radical Islam out on innocent Muslims. Support Christian charities like Barnabas Fund http://barnabasfund.org/US/Home/ It is run by Patrick Sookhdeo, a Muslim convert to Christianity. They give support to persecuted Christians in foreign countries. Many of them are Muslim converts to Christianity. Sookhdeo has received numerous death threats from Muslims for his work. If you really want to tick off a Radical Muslim, support a Christian missionary to a Muslim country. You could also support Christian television or radio stations that broadcast into Muslim countries. It would be a good way to strike back at Radical Islam without hurting Muslims.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 07:18 AM
----Well, I actually didnt mean to post again before the end of the night, I only came on again in case Rockdawg replied to me last post of me "wishing him a good night" :)


So I am a 'butthole' am I? Ha, did you have think real hard to come up with that one? I hope you didn't hurt yourself! What are you in the 6th grade?

And I also see that I am a coward? Ok, says the big tough guy talking over the internet:Whistle: Sounds like you have irritable bowel syndrome, get more fiber in your diet :laugh:

I can see that you are obviously upset over what happened today, and that is understandable, and I am glad you support your nation and military, but petty name calling and insults? Like it or not pal, there are muslim's who were born and raised in America, and have made good lives for themselves in many honorable professions, and they are CITIZENS. Also, I may not agree with alot of what PLAY THE MAN says, but he is right, re-think your posts ....OH SNAP! I just had an epiphany. You are probably just real mad because there is a muslim guy you know of that has a real high paying job, and you are stuck in some crappy dead end job, scraping crap of the side of the road!!!! yeah that must be it. Seeeeeeee, its not nice when people throw stupid insults around is it?

And for the record, if you are able to read in the top right corner of my posting avatar, you will see I live in CANADA. So, you don't have to worry about me "GETTING THE HELL OUT".

Donaldbreland was out of line for the vulgar insult. It looks like he has subsequently apologized. I have been blessed and make a great living. I don't think that people who work an honest job in a low-paying, non-glamorous job should be mocked for it.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 12:29 PM
Look here people. I know a lot of time you disagree with me. I for one am proud to be called an American. To me being an American is close to being in heaven. I love this place and I respect each of our services across this great land. When someone shoots a cop or kills a bunch of soldiers I cry. I love what they do just so I can go to Walmart at 2:30 in the morning if I choose. I love that they put their life on th eline each and every day just so I can go to Mcdonalds or do what i want to do. They don't even know me but yet they die for me. That my friends is love. That my friends is something only Jesus himself gave. they put their lifes on the line for us. And what do we do. We take advantage of the fact and don't spend enough time to think them personally. Tonight I will do my part to Honor our soldiers for the rest of my life. I will let each and everyone of them know that I thank them. Please tonight before you go to bed. Please pray for them and their families. I ask you to do this even if you don't believe in God. Do it for them. Do it because your Americans.
While we have troops overseas please donate books and magazines and what ever these guys need to our soldiers. Please.

dude, you sound the most un-American on here ... your constitution says that people are allowed to be free to choose their religion .. as much as you want to think that the US is a Christian country, it is NOT ... once you realize this, you will understand how ridiculous it sounds to say muslims are unAmerican and they should be kicked out of the country ... remember what the US is and if you don't like it, you can leave

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 01:04 PM
Well, in some circles, Catholics are actually lumped in with Christians. Islam declares ALL Christians (including Catholics) as infidels who must be slaughtered. While there has been a history of Catholic vs. Protestant violence in Europe, it hasn't really been much of a problem here in America. Plus Catholic terrorists hadn't flown any airliners into skyscrapers, killing thousands of people, in the years before JFK was elected and we weren't at war with any Catholic nations back then either.

So the situations are more than a little dissimilar.

Agreed, but just saying "Muslims are bad" is not the way to go.

I do think that there needs to be a hard look taken at that faith, but I do have a couple of friends that are better people than some professed Christians I know.

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 01:05 PM
I blame Obama. I blame the people who voted for that sorry Muslim S.O.B. This would not have happened if Mccain was in Office. Mccain was a true american hero who should have been president over Obama. This country is going down fast. We need to start talking about impeaching that guy before he ruins our great Country.


??????????

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Talk about "poor reporting" and poor gun knowledge

"At a news conference earlier in the day, Cone said the shooter had two handguns, one of them a semi-automatic."

I would like to see any military person with a single action revolver, or even a double action revolver..

If it is a pistol and has a clip/magizine.. it is a semi

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 01:35 PM
As soon as he opened fire and began killing American soldiers in cold blood, then he ceased to be an American. I don't care what his past consisted of before that.

When one of your own does something like this.....he is a coward....and worse....a traitor. :angry:

Vizion
11-06-2009, 02:21 PM
dude, you sound the most un-American on here ... your constitution says that people are allowed to be free to choose their religion .. as much as you want to think that the US is a Christian country, it is NOT ... once you realize this, you will understand how ridiculous it sounds to say muslims are unAmerican and they should be kicked out of the country ... remember what the US is and if you don't like it, you can leave
The US is by far more Christian a nation than Muslim, Christianity MAKES the United States a great place.

Ironic, the more we see Muslims here, the more tragedies like this occur in the name of Allah, and that goes far beyond our borders. And don't even try to argue this was merely a crime. I guarantee you his religion played a role in him going on his little jihad.

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 02:22 PM
When one of your own does something like this.....he is a coward....and worse....a traitor. :angry:


Agreed!

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 02:47 PM
The US is by far more Christian a nation than Muslim, Christianity MAKES the United States a great place.

Ironic, the more we see Muslims here, the more tragedies like this occur in the name of Allah, and that goes far beyond our borders. And don't even try to argue this was merely a crime. I guarantee you his religion played a role in him going on his little jihad.

I think so.

They said on CNN this morning that he supposedly shouted out in Arabic "God is great" as he's shooting and killing his unarmed defenseless fellow soldiers.

God is great as he will find out (as we all will) on judgement day.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 03:11 PM
The US is by far more Christian a nation than Muslim, Christianity MAKES the United States a great place.

Ironic, the more we see Muslims here, the more tragedies like this occur in the name of Allah, and that goes far beyond our borders. And don't even try to argue this was merely a crime. I guarantee you his religion played a role in him going on his little jihad.

it may be more Christian, but it is not a Christian nation ..plain and simple .. if people have the right to freedom of religion, then it is a nation that does not have an official religion .. the US constitution states the American's are free to choose their religion and anyone who wants to rid the US of a certain religion is Un-American

billwilliams70
11-06-2009, 03:27 PM
I think so.

They said on CNN this morning that he supposedly shouted out in Arabic "God is great" as he's shooting and killing his unarmed defenseless fellow soldiers.

God is great as he will find out (as we all will) on judgement day.
CNN also said that he was killed in the shootout, so the race to report first is obviously much more important than being accurate.

Later.

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 03:34 PM
I think the guy was just out of his mind and religion had nothing to do with it.


I think so.

They said on CNN this morning that he supposedly shouted out in Arabic "God is great" as he's shooting and killing his unarmed defenseless fellow soldiers.

God is great as he will find out (as we all will) on judgement day.

Crisco
11-06-2009, 03:43 PM
it may be more Christian, but it is not a Christian nation ..plain and simple .. if people have the right to freedom of religion, then it is a nation that does not have an official religion .. the US constitution states the American's are free to choose their religion and anyone who wants to rid the US of a certain religion is Un-American

But what if that religion wants to rid the WORLD of every other religion?

What does that make them?


So no it's not so plain and simple my Canadian friend.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 03:51 PM
But what if that religion wants to rid the WORLD of every other religion?

What does that make them?


So no it's not so plain and simple my Canadian friend.

so lower yourself to a muslim? come on ... saying there has to be more done to root out radical muslims, sleeper cells in the US that is fine .. saying let's get the muslims out of this country, ship em back to where they are from (assuming they were all born elsewhere) and you start sounding like Edi Amin and Hitler ... my family is from an islamic country .. i have seen what they do to us Christians and how we are treated ... first hand ... i still don't think shipping all muslims out of my country or your country is the answer and i don't think all muslims want America or the west dead ...

Vizion
11-06-2009, 04:12 PM
it may be more Christian, but it is not a Christian nation ..plain and simple .. if people have the right to freedom of religion, then it is a nation that does not have an official religion .. the US constitution states the American's are free to choose their religion and anyone who wants to rid the US of a certain religion is Un-American If a car is 80% red, 5% yellow, 5% blue and 10% gray, would you still call it a red car? Obviously christianity DOMINATES America. It essentially makes America's composition MOSTLY Christian, which to my way of thinking make America a "Christian Nation".

We have given more charity in the name of Christ to anyone in the history of the world too.

billwilliams70
11-06-2009, 04:18 PM
Good stuff! Go Bluebirds!

Later.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 04:25 PM
If a car is 80% red, 5% yellow, 5% blue and 10% gray, would you still call it a red car? Obviously christianity DOMINATES America. It essentially makes America's composition MOSTLY Christian, which to my way of thinking make America a "Christian Nation".

We have given more charity in the name of Christ to anyone in the history of the world too.

Hmmmm ... 80% of the US "identify" themselves as Christians, including the President .. but in another thread, people were quick to say that he is not a Christian .. so how can you be sure that the 80% of people who identify as Christians are actually Christians? ... Looks like to me that the 80% red on that car is starting to look like it was actually rust and not paint ...

Miss Foxy
11-06-2009, 04:53 PM
When I first joined this forum I used to think most of you sounded hateful and racist when talking about Muslims. I did not grow up in a religious household just typical Catholic home (basically non-existent)...After a few months and actually reading scripture and researching Muslim religion I AM SO WITH YOU ALL ON THIS TOPIC...I think that so called religion is full of hate and violence and they want all CHRISTIANS to die. Im sick of living in a society that protects these mothaf*ckas... That's not very classy talk, but I don't care I feel very mad today!!

Miss Foxy
11-06-2009, 05:12 PM
When one of your own does something like this.....he is a coward....and worse....a traitor. :angry:

Yes!! It's worse by far!!

Vizion
11-06-2009, 05:14 PM
Hmmmm ... 80% of the US "identify" themselves as Christians, including the President .. but in another thread, people were quick to say that he is not a Christian .. so how can you be sure that the 80% of people who identify as Christians are actually Christians? ... Looks like to me that the 80% red on that car is starting to look like it was actually rust and not paint ...
Well that's my point though. You can call America a menagerie of religions, but it really is mostly comprised of ONE. That is not to say that all professing Christians are real Christians. But that's another topic.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 05:23 PM
This incident is highly suspicious of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome". The shooter reportedly was shouting in Arabic during the shooting http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=18503e97f397c039 (I will bet a year's salary that the words in Arabic were "Allahu Akhbar!"). The shooter posted this on the internet several months ago:



I doubt he was in contact with Al-Qaeda. He is probably like the North Carolina student Taheri-azar, who ran down his fellow students with his SUV; or Haq, who gunned down women at the Seattle Jewish Federation. His religion and mosque teach that dirty kafirs are inferior to Muslims. Jews and Christian are the offspring of apes and pigs. When the Muslim sees with his own eyes that Christians, Jews and Secularists have built societies that are more prosperous, more free, more powerful, etc., the Muslim becomes incredibly jealous and homicidal - the genesis of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome"

I just happened to watch the movie Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against The West last night. When the reports started today, I immediately suspected a Muslim, before they mentioned a name. Do yourself a favor and get Obsession from Netflix http://obsessionthemovie.com/

Today, it is being reported that he, indeed, was shouting "Allahu Akbar!" during the shooting.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

Soldiers who witnessed the rampage reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" — before opening fire, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander.

Crisco
11-06-2009, 05:28 PM
When I first joined this forum I used to think most of you sounded hateful and racist when talking about Muslims. I did not grow up in a religious household just typical Catholic home (basically non-existent)...After a few months and actually reading scripture and researching Muslim religion I AM SO WITH YOU ALL ON THIS TOPIC...I think that so called religion is full of hate and violence and they want all CHRISTIANS to die. Im sick of living in a society that protects these mothaf*ckas... That's not very classy talk, but I don't care I feel very mad today!!

The truth shall set you free =)

The sooner the world wakes up and see's Islam for what it really is no one will be safe and it will continue to corrupt millions.


Becareful to make sure you hate the sin and not the sinner Foxy.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 05:36 PM
When I first joined this forum I used to think most of you sounded hateful and racist when talking about Muslims. I did not grow up in a religious household just typical Catholic home (basically non-existent)...After a few months and actually reading scripture and researching Muslim religion I AM SO WITH YOU ALL ON THIS TOPIC...I think that so called religion is full of hate and violence and they want all CHRISTIANS to die. Im sick of living in a society that protects these mothaf*ckas... That's not very classy talk, but I don't care I feel very mad today!!

The truth shall set you free =)

The sooner the world wakes up and see's Islam for what it really is no one will be safe and it will continue to corrupt millions.


Becareful to make sure you hate the sin and not the sinner Foxy.

Happy to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way about these buttholes. Radical Muslims are ruining the world and the quality of life for everybody. Peace will never be achieved while these irrational psychos are still inhabiting the world. At some point, this "tolerance" being preached to us by the government and media needs to be shoved right back up their ass and maybe they will f'ing open their eyes!

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Who else here thinks this has the signature of the "Religion of Peace"?

Isnt it strange that the same week you get an infiltration...so do we.

We had a bogus police man in Afghanistan. Think he killed Five Soldiers

Unbelievably I think these Terror Cells have progressed to infiltration.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:14 PM
When you enlist in the US military, you are specifically asked if you belong or have ever belonged to any group that seeks to overthrow the US government. If you answer 'yes' then you are not allowed to enlist. I simply believe that Muslims need to be considered a group that seeks to overthrow the US government and thus they should not be allowed to serve in our military.

As for the radical Muslim groups within the US, I believe they need to be rooted out and eliminated immediately.

The problem is, supposing you have a Soldier who has worked his way up in the Forces and THEN decides to Convert to Islam...what do you do then...and how would you ever know if he intentionally kept it quiet :huh:

I dont think the issue is Islamists in the Armed Forces...I think its either deliberate infiltration by extremists that are effectively mascuerading as would-be Soldiers...or possibly worse...there are people already IN the military and somehow they are being reached and converted BY Islamists from the outside.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:19 PM
I didn't say get rid of the First Amendment. I said kick these buttholes the **** outta the country. At the very least, I agree with Nate, no f'ing Muslims in our military.

Obama is weak. He is a pussy who hasn't lived up to any of his obligations. Goinig around apologizing for "our mistakes" like a little bitch. We're fighting back against oppression. It's nothing more than what Susan B. Anthony or Malcolm X, except the Muslims respond with deadly force, so that's how we should respond. Our Congress and Executive branch are full of weak, wimpy pussies and many of the other people in this country are influenced by this BS and all the BS that gets spewed from the media telling us to be tolerant of Muslims because they're a victim. It's a cop-out.

EDIT: Perhaps I'm saying some things out of anger at this time, but I still don't have any problems kicking Muslims out of the U.S. as it's a matter of National Security.

If you feel that way, why are YOU not running for State Governor right now? If you want to change these things you have to get inside. What erks me is how often some of you moan but arent prepared to put the work in to change things. So run for office, put the time in, and make the difference, or accept what your given.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:21 PM
How about never let them enter the country in the first place? Perhaps a moratorium on immigration and tourist visas from Muslim countries. Nobody has a right to immigrate to or visit this country. It is a privilege. Privileges can be withdrawn.

could be difficult trying to explain that to some communities dependant on Tourism...for if you take executive action like that, dont expect others to immediately want to come across either...you'll make them all lose confidence in you, its hard enough to get into the US as it is. :laugh:

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 06:21 PM
CNN also said that he was killed in the shootout, so the race to report first is obviously much more important than being accurate.

Later.

Touche'. However, I failed to mention (sorry 'bout that) that they got that from one of the upper Army people (don't remember his rank) as was told to him by one of the eyewitnesses to the shooting. Also, one of our local stations mentioned the same thing.

I guess we'll know more for sure as more survivors recover and report what went down.

That's why I'm mentioning where I heard what; give what credibility (if any) you will to it. :)

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:24 PM
3) Being born here does NOT make one an American! This man is FAR from an American. He is a coward pussy who was also a radical Muslim. Have you been watching the news and hearing the words this man has said to his superiors and other psychiatrists in the military? Or his own cousins' testimonial?

And actually, justice hasn't been done yet, he is still alive :(

Officially it does.

But then, technically anyone not a Christian cant be American neither.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:27 PM
As soon as he opened fire and began killing American soldiers in cold blood, then he ceased to be an American. I don't care what his past consisted of before that.

Incorect.

The moment he wasnt a Christian, he wasnt an American.

Americans are well capable of doing evil stuff, and bad stuff...or do you suppose your Government which you constantly dislike is not made of Americans?

Perhaps in your view it is impossible to be a Democrat and an American :laugh:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 06:27 PM
Happy to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way about these buttholes. Radical Muslims are ruining the world and the quality of life for everybody. Peace will never be achieved while these irrational psychos are still inhabiting the world. At some point, this "tolerance" being preached to us by the government and media needs to be shoved right back up their ass and maybe they will f'ing open their eyes!

Breathe easy brother I think your letting your anger get the better of you :)

Our arguement loses credibility when we seem like we aren't looking at things intelligently.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:29 PM
it would go against the constitution that this being the land of the free


Thats Freedom under Jahweh, not Anarchy.

Its a perversion of the Constituion to have that belief in the first place.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:33 PM
Well, in some circles, Catholics are actually lumped in with Christians. .

You mean outside America :laugh: and your wrong about Islam saying all Christians are infedels and should be slaughtered. Thats not what it says at all.

Islam is to either convert or leave Christians alone, unless the Christians do something to threaten them, at which point they move to militancy. You have to understand, the Radicals not only believe they are at war, they also believe you fired first. You did that the moment you became powerful enough to impinge on them in any way at all.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:40 PM
and their is some butt hole on here

. Dude you are a coward just like our president.



Language! we have rules against name calling around here :angry:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 06:42 PM
You mean outside America :laugh: and your wrong about Islam saying all Christians are infedels and should be slaughtered. Thats not what it says at all.

Islam is to either convert or leave Christians alone, unless the Christians do something to threaten them, at which point they move to militancy. You have to understand, the Radicals not only believe they are at war, they also believe you fired first. You did that the moment you became powerful enough to impinge on them in any way at all.

Can you please show me in the Koran where it says that Dave?

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:43 PM
... your constitution says that people are allowed to be free to choose their religion ..


No it doesnt.

It denys a state church and means that different denominations of Christianity should be permitted to worship in their own way.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:46 PM
God is great as he will find out (as we all will) on judgement day.

Dies Irae, Dies Illa.... :ninja:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVjDP0vlem4

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 06:46 PM
In the muslim religion they hate Christians. If you hate Christians and want to kill them then you shouldn't be allowed to be in our military. Rearnakedchoke I really have to say that you sound more un american than anyone . This Country was founded on Christian beliefs. Our constitution was wrote on views from the Holy Bible. Please real the last page of the Bible and then open your mouth.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Can you please show me in the Koran where it says that Dave?

I could. I do have a Qu'Ran :ninja: I also lived alongside mainstream Islamic people for three years including those where both 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq happened.

Do you really want the reference because I think it could be several :huh:

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 06:56 PM
In the muslim religion they hate Christians. If you hate Christians and want to kill them then you shouldn't be allowed to be in our military. Rearnakedchoke I really have to say that you sound more un american than anyone . This Country was founded on Christian beliefs. Our constitution was wrote on views from the Holy Bible. Please real the last page of the Bible and then open your mouth.


Please read the Constitution.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


The country was founded on Christian belifes, sure. But the founders recognized other religions as well.

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 06:57 PM
I could. I do have a Qu'Ran :ninja: I also lived alongside mainstream Islamic people for three years including those where both 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq happened.

Do you really want the reference because I think it could be several :huh:


Didn't sound like he stuttered to me...

many people have a copy of the quran.. it's not that hard to get.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:58 PM
In the muslim religion they hate Christians. Holy Bible. .

Again, not entirely truth.

The Islamic Faith has two separate settings...just like the Christian

The first is Evangelic, The Second is Crusade

Under these different settings the Faith acts differently.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 06:59 PM
Didn't sound like he stuttered to me...

many people have a copy of the quran.. it's not that hard to get.

Mine was a gift from a close friend :)

I never claimed he stuttered :blink:

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 06:59 PM
Officially it does.

But then, technically anyone not a Christian cant be American neither.

no.

Technically, anyone born in this country is an Amercian.

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 07:00 PM
Mine was a gift from a close friend :)

I never claimed he stuttered :blink:


He asked for referenece.. you asked "do you really want one.."

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 07:02 PM
I think the guy was just out of his mind and religion had nothing to do with it.

Could be. Although, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive of each other especially in regards to certain religions and their zealots.

I think we can agree to disagree being the two sane rational-thinking women that we are. :laugh:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 07:06 PM
It's kind of difficult to hold fast too considering friends Christians and jews when every treaty of peace you make you set an expiration date so that you can resume your war at a later date.


The goal of Islam is to dominate the entire world through force if need be.

They are to leave Christians alone sure but when it comes down to it if they try to conquer us we will have to fight back and that will give them their justification with allah to kill us.

Believers in reality cannot get along with eachother forever.

The difference between us and them is that Christian await the almighty God to intervene on our behalf and reclaim the world for the faithful.

The muslims are commanded to take the world themselves(which can only be done through violence lets face facts).

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 07:08 PM
Oh I'm much more rational then sane :rolleyes:

Could be. Although, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive of each other especially in regards to certain religions and their zealots.

I think we can agree to disagree being the two sane rational-thinking women that we are. :laugh:

Neezar
11-06-2009, 07:08 PM
I got tired and skipped to the end. Can someone tell me who is winning?

MattHughesRocks
11-06-2009, 07:09 PM
I am :)


I got tired and skipped to the end. Can someone tell me who is winning?

NateR
11-06-2009, 07:14 PM
dude, you sound the most un-American on here ... your constitution says that people are allowed to be free to choose their religion .. as much as you want to think that the US is a Christian country, it is NOT ... once you realize this, you will understand how ridiculous it sounds to say muslims are unAmerican and they should be kicked out of the country ... remember what the US is and if you don't like it, you can leave

Actually, regardless of what that idiot Obama says, the US is a Christian nation and always has been. It's because of our Judeo-Christian roots that we have freedom of religion. Islam has no concept of freedom of religion. They've jumped into the boat that we have created for them and are now trying to push everyone else out (the Atheists are doing the same thing).

So, if they can't respect other people's freedom to choice their own religion, then they don't belong in this country.

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 07:19 PM
I am :)

I don't know if you're sane enough to make such a judgement call. :tongue0011:

:laugh:

NateR
11-06-2009, 07:20 PM
The problem is, supposing you have a Soldier who has worked his way up in the Forces and THEN decides to Convert to Islam...what do you do then...and how would you ever know if he intentionally kept it quiet :huh:

That's easy, once you discover it, you kick them out. I've seen it happen to soldiers who join "white power" organization after they enlist, it could just as easily be done for radical Muslims.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 07:40 PM
If you feel that way, why are YOU not running for State Governor right now? If you want to change these things you have to get inside. What erks me is how often some of you moan but arent prepared to put the work in to change things. So run for office, put the time in, and make the difference, or accept what your given.
I understand what you're saying, but that's easier said than done. I have bills to pay, I'm not intersted in going bankrupt. My grandfather has basically said the same thing to me, but it just doesn't work that way. Successful politicians are almost always already independently wealthy, which isn't my case.

rockdawg21
11-06-2009, 07:41 PM
Breathe easy brother I think your letting your anger get the better of you :)

Our arguement loses credibility when we seem like we aren't looking at things intelligently.
Then tell me what is intelligent? Believing this trend will change? They want to erradicate us from the planet. At some point, IMO, it's intelligent to recognize this problem and fight back.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but in a way, you're saying we should just let them walk all over us and not fight back?

It's kind of difficult to hold fast too considering friends Christians and jews when every treaty of peace you make you set an expiration date so that you can resume your war at a later date.


The goal of Islam is to dominate the entire world through force if need be.

They are to leave Christians alone sure but when it comes down to it if they try to conquer us we will have to fight back and that will give them their justification with allah to kill us.

Believers in reality cannot get along with eachother forever.

The difference between us and them is that Christian await the almighty God to intervene on our behalf and reclaim the world for the faithful.

The muslims are commanded to take the world themselves(which can only be done through violence lets face facts).
Your point states Muslims want to take over the world through violence if need be, but we should put our faith that God is going to protect us. At what point is it that God wants us to put it into our own hands? Perhaps this interpretation is God will provide us with the means to fight back.

Twinsmama
11-06-2009, 07:43 PM
You guys see there was just another shooting about an hour ago here (1:30 our time). it was in Orlando. Some ex employee that got fired 2 years ago went into an office building shot people (they think about 8 so far- not sure how many are dead) Then he left and went to his mamas house! the swat team got him without incident. It also said that none of the superiors were there. His old boss and many of the other top dogs were out of the office today. what a sorry sack of crap!!!

what is wrong with the world today?? never mind lets not get that subject started!!

Spiritwalker
11-06-2009, 07:44 PM
So, if they can't respect other people's freedom to choice their own religion, then they don't belong in this country.


DING!

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 07:44 PM
Touche'. However, I failed to mention (sorry 'bout that) that they got that from one of the upper Army people (don't remember his rank) as was told to him by one of the eyewitnesses to the shooting. Also, one of our local stations mentioned the same thing.

I guess we'll know more for sure as more survivors recover and report what went down.

That's why I'm mentioning where I heard what; give what credibility (if any) you will to it. :)

Please see my post #105, it has a link quoting the Army official.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 07:46 PM
could be difficult trying to explain that to some communities dependant on Tourism...for if you take executive action like that, dont expect others to immediately want to come across either...you'll make them all lose confidence in you, its hard enough to get into the US as it is. :laugh:

I know. Tough times require tough decisions.

Bonnie
11-06-2009, 07:46 PM
Please see my post #105, it has a link quoting the Army official.

I saw it, Play; I was hoping Bill would see it too. I guess I should have also mentioned your post to back up my original post (#93) when it was quoted. :) I just wanted to acknowledge Bill's comment on the news outlets reporting sometimes faulty info in order to be the first ones to report the story--which is so true.

NateR
11-06-2009, 07:54 PM
You guys see there was just another shooting about an hour ago here (1:30 our time). it was in Orlando. Some ex employee that got fired 2 years ago went into an office building shot people (they think about 8 so far- not sure how many are dead) Then he left and went to his mamas house! the swat team got him without incident. It also said that none of the superiors were there. His old boss and many of the other top dogs were out of the office today. what a sorry sack of crap!!!

what is wrong with the world today?? never mind lets not get that subject started!!

Probably just a copycat crime. It tends to happen when these stories get so much news coverage.

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Happy to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way about these buttholes. Radical Muslims are ruining the world and the quality of life for everybody. Peace will never be achieved while these irrational psychos are still inhabiting the world. At some point, this "tolerance" being preached to us by the government and media needs to be shoved right back up their ass and maybe they will f'ing open their eyes!

there is a difference between radicals muslims and muslims .. i know stuff like what happened yesterday is tough to watch ... but to jump the gun and say all muslims need to be booted is not the answer ... i agree, there needs to be more done to root out the radicals and tougher background checks on those entering the country ...

RG8144
11-06-2009, 08:02 PM
Lots of prayers for all these incidents the last two days. Many friends who have made there way through Ft. Hood, fortunately none of them were on base at the time.

mscomc
11-06-2009, 08:18 PM
When I first joined this forum I used to think most of you sounded hateful and racist when talking about Muslims. I did not grow up in a religious household just typical Catholic home (basically non-existent)...After a few months and actually reading scripture and researching Muslim religion I AM SO WITH YOU ALL ON THIS TOPIC...I think that so called religion is full of hate and violence and they want all CHRISTIANS to die. Im sick of living in a society that protects these mothaf*ckas... That's not very classy talk, but I don't care I feel very mad today!!

"protects these motha f"ckas????" ok, i will take a page from your book. If I recall correctly (and I aplogize if I am wrong)....you are of hispanic/lation descent yourself?

Well, I have to say, that durin the 1980's in south florida, when all those cuban, colombian, mexican and bolivian drug lords came down to deal coke and miami and turn the streets into their own little shooting ground (watch the doucmentary cocaine cowboys and you will see alot of terrible murders). Would it have been fair to say : "anyone of hispanic descent, GET THE HELL OUT OF THE USA"

That would be absolutely wrong to say. There are good hispanic people, like yourself....you are hardworking, law abiding, love your family etc etc......

There are muslim americans who are the same way....they are good people. Yes I agree, the radical groups need to be gotten rid of. But the same should be said for all radical peoples then, such as:

1) The westboro baptist church ----- i beleive this is the group who praises when U.S soldiers are killed and they cheer at their funerals

2) any neo-nazi groups

3) any KKK members

etc etc etc etc

mscomc
11-06-2009, 08:22 PM
there is a difference between radicals muslims and muslims .. i know stuff like what happened yesterday is tough to watch ... but to jump the gun and say all muslims need to be booted is not the answer ... i agree, there needs to be more done to root out the radicals and tougher background checks on those entering the country ...



Oh thank you my canadian ally :laugh:


Thats also the point I am trying to get across....yes radicals should be dealt with. But not all muslim americans are radicals. The majority of them are people like the rest of us...I mean do some people on this forum think they are from MARS are something? They dont want: Food on the table? shelter? good jobs? a place for this kids to grow and be safe?

I am also willing to bet, that most muslim americans (espeically the ones who were born and raised in america) dont even fully know all that goes on in afghanistan or iraq or whatever. They live in america now....they are sitting at home on their re-clining chairs just like you, watching baseball like you (well i guess not anymore :) ) and like the rest of us in north america, probably overeating on fast food as well----- LOL man i gonna burn for that one :laugh:

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:25 PM
It's kind of difficult to hold fast too considering friends Christians and jews when every treaty of peace you make you set an expiration date so that you can resume your war at a later date.


The goal of Islam is to dominate the entire world through force if need be.

They are to leave Christians alone sure but when it comes down to it if they try to conquer us we will have to fight back and that will give them their justification with allah to kill us.

Believers in reality cannot get along with eachother forever.

The difference between us and them is that Christian await the almighty God to intervene on our behalf and reclaim the world for the faithful.

The muslims are commanded to take the world themselves(which can only be done through violence lets face facts).
"surely they that believe, and those of jewery, and the Christians, and those sabaeans whose believes in God and the last day,and works righteousness their wage them with their Lord and no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they sorrow"

thats a quote less then 5 pages into the Qu'ran that basically says that you dont even need to be Islamic to get to Heaven. Bascially, it appears that the doctrine is saying good Christians and Jews will get to Heaven on a salvation by works basis.

That is peaceful Islam, It accepts that Jews and Christians have a common ancestory and it says basically that if they dont oppose Islam, they should be left alone.

However...what consitutes not opposing Islam? Thats where you have the divide between mainstream and Radicals. Mainstream Islamists fell out with the Jews when they returned to Israel. But the hatred seems not to be so much about Spirituality as about Politics, they dont like Israel being a Nationstate since it was disbanded, they do not see it had any right to reappear, Islam had spread through that part of the world, and as far as they were concerned, the imergence of Israel was nothing short of A rebellion.

Radical Islam goes one step further. Radical Islam blames the West and the Powerful World Powers for setting Israel up and for Protecting her. As far as they are concerned we became an opposition when we Re-instated Israel. Because of that, we are as much the enemy as Israel is. That gives them the excuse to call for a Crusade, because to Oppose them is to Oppose God, or so they believe.

So it very much depends on what you believe is opposition to Islam, For Christians, its slightly more defined. You dont launch a crusade unless you are persecuted...Well for Islam, all you have to do is dissagree with them, and they will move to Jihad

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:29 PM
I know. Tough times require tough decisions.

Yes, but its tough Financial times, and to be blunt, you need all the income you can get. I mean, would you be prepared to pay more tax to cover the hole left by tourism...I dont think so.

:laugh:

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:31 PM
That's easy, once you discover it, you kick them out. I've seen it happen to soldiers who join "white power" organization after they enlist, it could just as easily be done for radical Muslims.

but how do you know if they are radical or not? you cant descriminate against the mainstream...but neither can you wait for them to attack before you dishounerably discharge them. :blink:

Shoots like a girl
11-06-2009, 08:31 PM
This is truely a sad time for our country. My nephew is stationed at Ft. Hood. Thankfully, he is in New Mexico right now getting in his prewar training for his December deployment. His heart is broken because of what has taken place at his "home". Its impossible to know those among us who are terrorists. I know that all of you are angry, so am I. But in your anger please remember to pray for the victims families and loved ones. And dont forget that the gunmen had families as well that will be going through almost as much grief. My nephew also asked my friends and I to pray for this war on terrorism as it is also being fought right here on American soil. :cry:

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:36 PM
but that's easier said than done. I have bills to pay, I'm not intersted in going bankrupt. .

thats the problem. So basically your saying its not worth the risk.

The vast majority of people would do NO better in office then those already there, and the vast majority of those that complain dont even try.

Nothing will change until risks are taken, and some will risk all and lose all long before any changes occure. This is a long process. But I do get anoyed when people start name calling and practically swareing, when the truth is they couldnt do better, and for whatever perfectly valid reasons, they dont try.

Remember, it is people who did EXACTLY what im talking about, who have allowed you the ability to complain in the first place. Do you know what they would have done to George Washington if he had failed :huh:

Forget bankruptcy....how about capital punishment :unsure-1:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 08:44 PM
Then tell me what is intelligent? Believing this trend will change? They want to erradicate us from the planet. At some point, IMO, it's intelligent to recognize this problem and fight back.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but in a way, you're saying we should just let them walk all over us and not fight back?


Your point states Muslims want to take over the world through violence if need be, but we should put our faith that God is going to protect us. At what point is it that God wants us to put it into our own hands? Perhaps this interpretation is God will provide us with the means to fight back.

You misunderstood bro. I was more talking about not calling them pussys and butt holes.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:44 PM
This is truely a sad time for our country. My nephew is stationed at Ft. Hood. Thankfully, he is in New Mexico right now getting in his prewar training for his December deployment. His heart is broken because of what has taken place at his "home". Its impossible to know those among us who are terrorists. I know that all of you are angry, so am I. But in your anger please remember to pray for the victims families and loved ones. And dont forget that the gunmen had families as well that will be going through almost as much grief. My nephew also asked my friends and I to pray for this war on terrorism as it is also being fought right here on American soil. :cry:

:sad: We should be remembering and praying for the departed right now. Its nearly Remembrance Day, and who knows if the parents and family even knew what was going on with the killer? Imagine having given your kids a perfect upbringing, for them to at somepoint be misslead and do something terrible...then imagine that you still have to face the world for what they did.

We should be praying for blessings, and we should even be praying for blessings on our Enemies...for Blessings are not asking GOD to reward, but asking GOD to reveal...and the Revelation of GOD to the Darkness creates light...its like putting a match under a piece of paper, it smokes, it goes black and eventually it bursts into flame and is completely consumed.

WE need to remember that we have weapons in this War aswell, just because we arent using them properly, and just because the Enemy seems to be using force more often. We dont need to Kill Islamists to Iradicate Islam...we need to pray that GOD actually do something...and we need to pray without ceaseing...and Christians dont tend to do that. GOD can change this situation around, but he will wait on us to ask. Meanwhile the Enemy advances, since we are actually deployed on Earth, it was given over to Darkness when Lucifer was booted out of the Heavens

"Ye have not, because Ye ask not"

and a short five moment prayer wont cut it :ninja::laugh:

Neezar
11-06-2009, 08:45 PM
Seems like all the foreigners around here seem to know what is best for us. :laugh:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Please read my post again Dave.


In order for the Muslims to achieve their ultimate goal they must eventually attempt to destroy us. They will have quran to back them up the moment we resist their take over because we will have resisted Islam making us an enemy.

One instance cannot live peacefully with the other.

You cannot say you will respect someones territory but then also say you must conquer the entire world.

Doesn't work.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 08:53 PM
there is a difference between radicals muslims and muslims .. i know stuff like what happened yesterday is tough to watch ... but to jump the gun and say all muslims need to be booted is not the answer ... i agree, there needs to be more done to root out the radicals and tougher background checks on those entering the country ...

There is a story that a Christian missionary, E. Stanley Jones, once asked Ghandi the following question: "Mr. Ghandi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is it that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Ghandi reportedly answered, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Many of the problems of the Christian world are caused by Christians being unfaithful to their religion. Most would agree with Ghandi, the Hindu, that if Christians became more obedient to Christ, or more "Christ-like", the world would be a better place.

In contrast, Muslims consider Muhammad to be the perfect example, the ultimate prophet - "We have indeed, in the messenger of Allah, a good example (of conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." Muslim sources tell of how Muhammad ordered executions, ordered women into sexually slavery, ordered the slavery of children, made peace treaties deceitfully in order to later break the treaty when his forces were stronger, countenanced polygamy, married a six-year-old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, stole the possessions of others as "booty", etc., etc., etc. It seems that the more a Muslim tries to be like Muhammad and follow the Koran seriously, the more violent he is towards his neighbor. "Peaceful" Muslims seem to be more secular and not follow the Koran seriously.

Universalists say that ultimately, all religions worship the same God. I don't accept that. On one hand, we have a religion where the most devout are the most violent. On the other hand, we have a religion where the most devout are the most peaceful. That is quite a contrast.

For those that believe that Christianity and Islam are interchangeable please compare and contrast how Jesus and Muhammad handled similar situations. John 8:1-11 describes how Jesus deals with a woman caught in the act of adultery:

1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Contrast to Muhammad's treatment of an adulterous woman (Hadith - Al Muwatta 41.5):

Malik related to me from Yaqub ibn Zayd ibn Talha from his father Zayd ibn Talha that Abdullah ibn Abi Mulayka informed him that a woman came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and informed him that she had committed adultery and was pregnant. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said to her, "Go away until you give birth." When she had given birth, she came to him. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said to her, "Go away until you have suckled and weaned the baby." When she had weaned the baby, she came to him. He said, "Go and entrust the baby to someone." She entrusted the baby to someone and then came to him. He gave the order and she was stoned.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Yes, but its tough Financial times, and to be blunt, you need all the income you can get. I mean, would you be prepared to pay more tax to cover the hole left by tourism...I dont think so.

:laugh:

Ultimately, I think that cost would be less than the cost of the hole in downtown Manhattan and the hole in the Pentagon.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 08:59 PM
It seems that the more a Muslim tries to be like Muhammad and follow the Koran seriously, the more violent he is towards his neighbor. "Peaceful" Muslims seem to be more secular and not follow the Koran seriously.





Maybe so...but most Mainstream Islamists are just like mainstream Christians, in that actually they dont really do much and take a very liberal interpretation of their own scriptures.

Jihadists would say that a mainstream Islamic person was not actually Islamic...in a very similar way to how some people we perhaps see and talk to say how the US might be Christian, but all the Christians are pacified, they arent actually doing what their Scriptures say.

Yes...I think between the Radical Christians and The Radical Islamists, their is real war and can only ever be real war...but lets NOT try and awaken the mainstream Islamists into becoming more radical, and lets focus on trying to ressurect a few Christians who are sleeping on the job, so to speak :ninja:

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:03 PM
Ultimately, I think that cost would be less than the cost of the hole in downtown Manhattan and the hole in the Pentagon.

I think you under estimate what non-Americans do and give whilst in certain parts of the United States...particularly the East Coast Cities, the West Coast Cities and Hawaii.

Remember that when 9/11 happened, it didnt even happen in England, and the tourist Trade in our country in London took two years to bounce back :scared0011:

rearnakedchoke
11-06-2009, 09:04 PM
Seems like all the foreigners around here seem to know what is best for us. :laugh:

you know it .. LOL .. nah, we are just trying to ensure you uphold you constitution ... when someone says "oh, lets get rid of guns in America, it's leading to deaths of thousands Americans" they are told "uh uh, it is our right" and that person is accused of being unAmerican ... but when someone says "lets get rid of all the muslims" they are not seen as unAmerican even though that is just as "unAmerican" as the gun-control loving person from the first example .. so we are just pointing out some peoples contradictions

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:05 PM
"surely they that believe, and those of jewery, and the Christians, and those sabaeans whose believes in God and the last day,and works righteousness their wage them with their Lord and no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they sorrow"

thats a quote less then 5 pages into the Qu'ran that basically says that you dont even need to be Islamic to get to Heaven. Bascially, it appears that the doctrine is saying good Christians and Jews will get to Heaven on a salvation by works basis.

That is peaceful Islam, It accepts that Jews and Christians have a common ancestory and it says basically that if they dont oppose Islam, they should be left alone.

However...what consitutes not opposing Islam? Thats where you have the divide between mainstream and Radicals. Mainstream Islamists fell out with the Jews when they returned to Israel. But the hatred seems not to be so much about Spirituality as about Politics, they dont like Israel being a Nationstate since it was disbanded, they do not see it had any right to reappear, Islam had spread through that part of the world, and as far as they were concerned, the imergence of Israel was nothing short of A rebellion.

Radical Islam goes one step further. Radical Islam blames the West and the Powerful World Powers for setting Israel up and for Protecting her. As far as they are concerned we became an opposition when we Re-instated Israel. Because of that, we are as much the enemy as Israel is. That gives them the excuse to call for a Crusade, because to Oppose them is to Oppose God, or so they believe.

So it very much depends on what you believe is opposition to Islam, For Christians, its slightly more defined. You dont launch a crusade unless you are persecuted...Well for Islam, all you have to do is dissagree with them, and they will move to Jihad

Muslim antipathy towards Jews predates the modern state of Israel. Muslims believe:

“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslims make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: ‘Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’”

Christians can live in Muslim lands and practice their faith; however, they will be dhimmis and must pay the jizya. In other words, they are by definition, second-class citizens under religiously-sanctioned discrimination and oppression.

Crisco
11-06-2009, 09:05 PM
John 8:1-11

Is one of my favorite stories of the bible.

It brings a smile to my face every time I read it.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:08 PM
Christians can live in Muslim lands and practice their faith; however, they will be dhimmis and must pay the jizya. In other words, they are by definition, second-class citizens under religiously-sanctioned discrimination and oppression.

:sad: my friend never told me that part :unsure-1:

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:11 PM
I think you under estimate what non-Americans do and give whilst in certain parts of the United States...particularly the East Coast Cities, the West Coast Cities and Hawaii.

Remember that when 9/11 happened, it didnt even happen in England, and the tourist Trade in our country in London took two years to bounce back :scared0011:

Tourism is definitely important; however, tourists from the Middle East are not propping up the economy of Waikiki beach. Tourism from Muslim countries is a small percentage of total tourism; in other words, serious risk for little reward.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:14 PM
:sad: my friend never told me that part :unsure-1:

Your "friend" was practicing "taqiyya" - religiously-sanctioned lying to avoid exposing an uncomfortable truth about his religion. Please do a quick Google search on: "Dhimmi" or "Taqiyya" or "Jizya". It will be quite enlightening.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:14 PM
Tourism is definitely important; however, tourists from the Middle East are not propping up the economy of Waikiki beach. Tourism from Muslim countries is a small percentage of total tourism; in other words, serious risk for little reward.

once it becomes clear the United States is sanctioning something like that against certain countries, your OTHER Tourists will hold back from you. Its like a loss of confidence, the same loss of confidence you saw with the banks when they started to have a run.

So as soon as its know the US is being more uperty about certain types of tourists, your waikiki beach will be empty. Not just of middle eastern muslims...but of tourists full stop.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:18 PM
Maybe so...but most Mainstream Islamists are just like mainstream Christians, in that actually they dont really do much and take a very liberal interpretation of their own scriptures.

Jihadists would say that a mainstream Islamic person was not actually Islamic...in a very similar way to how some people we perhaps see and talk to say how the US might be Christian, but all the Christians are pacified, they arent actually doing what their Scriptures say.

Yes...I think between the Radical Christians and The Radical Islamists, their is real war and can only ever be real war...but lets NOT try and awaken the mainstream Islamists into becoming more radical, and lets focus on trying to ressurect a few Christians who are sleeping on the job, so to speak :ninja:

My point is: Thank Heaven that there are so many Muslims that are not serious about their faith! The devout ones are the most violent towards their neighbors. Contrariwise, shame on Christians for not being serious about their faith because if they were more "Christ-like", the world would likely be a better place.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:19 PM
Your "friend" was practicing "taqiyya" - religiously-sanctioned lying to avoid exposing an uncomfortable truth about his religion. Please do a quick Google search on: "Dhimmi" or "Taqiyya" or "Jizya". It will be quite enlightening.

Her.

It was a woman...actually, it was many women....and..yes, they shouldnt strictly have been my friends at all.

I associated with maybe two Islamic Males...one I could Tollerate, the other I wanted to push off the nearest Balconey...HE became her other half so to speak...that is until Her Family took a disliking to him.

She is now married to a Scot and lives somewhere in the Middle East...He's an Islamic convert so I hear...but her Wedding photos suggest she didnt exactly have the orthodox Islamic Marriage. She was permitted to chose who she wanted to marry...some of the others in this little group were not so fortunate.

One got married to someone she'd never even met :blink: Another was married, EXTREMELY young and the moment she was married she started to resemble a baby making machine :ninja:

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:21 PM
once it becomes clear the United States is sanctioning something like that against certain countries, your OTHER Tourists will hold back from you. Its like a loss of confidence, the same loss of confidence you saw with the banks when they started to have a run.

So as soon as its know the US is being more uperty about certain types of tourists, your waikiki beach will be empty. Not just of middle eastern muslims...but of tourists full stop.

In the short term, you are probably correct. In the long run, I think it would become less of a factor. Probably not worth discussing any more . . . the chances that this government would actually do it is zero.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:21 PM
My point is: Thank Heaven that there are so many Muslims that are not serious about their faith! The devout ones are the most violent towards their neighbors. Contrariwise, shame on Christians for not being serious about their faith because if they were more "Christ-like", the world would likely be a better place.

Oh, I follow :)

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:21 PM
In the short term, you are probably correct. In the long run, I think it would become less of a factor. Probably not worth discussing any more . . . the chances that this government would actually do it is zero.

:laugh:

Crisco
11-06-2009, 09:38 PM
:laugh:

did you see my post David... :unsure-1:

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 09:38 PM
Her.

It was a woman...actually, it was many women....and..yes, they shouldnt strictly have been my friends at all.

I associated with maybe two Islamic Males...one I could Tollerate, the other I wanted to push off the nearest Balconey...HE became her other half so to speak...that is until Her Family took a disliking to him.

She is now married to a Scot and lives somewhere in the Middle East...He's an Islamic convert so I hear...but her Wedding photos suggest she didnt exactly have the orthodox Islamic Marriage. She was permitted to chose who she wanted to marry...some of the others in this little group were not so fortunate.

One got married to someone she'd never even met :blink: Another was married, EXTREMELY young and the moment she was married she started to resemble a baby making machine :ninja:

I think you could be excused for the balcony thoughts. If he knew about you, he would probably call for you to be crushed by a wall.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 09:59 PM
I think you could be excused for the balcony thoughts. If he knew about you, he would probably call for you to be crushed by a wall.

:ninja: Noone knew at that time, except for me. I hadnt even told my family :laugh:

He was mean, and he couldnt quite understand how I had met his girlfriend...I mean how do you, as a woman, explain bringing along a non-islamic male to the movies, with your male islamic partner, when you shouldnt first be talking to other Islamic Boys, and secondly, especially not other white Christian boys :laugh:

In short, she shouldnt have known either of us, but did, and decided it would be fun for us to meet, and niether of us were ammused...:laugh:

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 10:00 PM
did you see my post David... :unsure-1:

:huh: which one. I think I was laughing at PTMs post...not yours :blink:

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 10:09 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572726,00.html

They are starting to release the names of the victims. (Click link). Victims include a pregnant woman.:sad: I doubt they will count the unborn child as a victim of this coward.:angry:

I heard on Fox News that the shooter might be paralyzed from one of the gunshots. A dark part of me was pleased by that news.

Crisco
11-06-2009, 10:29 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572726,00.html

They are starting to release the names of the victims. (Click link). Victims include a pregnant woman.:sad: I doubt they will count the unborn child as a victim of this coward.:angry:

I heard on Fox News that the shooter might be paralyzed from one of the gunshots. A dark part of me was pleased by that news.

Yea.. I found I was happy he was alive because now he would stand trial in Texas and would be admired as a martyr for Islam.

The more of these "heroes" the Muslims annoint the more the west may grow tired of their tastes for our blood.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 10:37 PM
mscomc on your little list you forgot to add the N.A.A.C.P and the Black Panthers. The black panthers are a muslim group as well and guess what. They have ties to Obama. Wow.

Play The Man
11-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Yea.. I found I was happy he was alive because now he would stand trial in Texas and would be admired as a martyr for Islam.

The more of these "heroes" the Muslims annoint the more the west may grow tired of their tastes for our blood.

In earlier posts I was trying to compare and contrast Christianity and Islam. Your post triggered another thought. Why is it that Islamic martyrs are murderers who die trying to kill as many innocent people as possible while Christian martyrs are generally non-violent believers who are killed for proclaiming their faith in the face of threats to deny Christ or the gospel?

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 10:50 PM
originally posted by Tyburn We should be remembering and praying for the departed right now. Its nearly Remembrance Day, and who knows if the parents and family even knew what was going on with the killer? Imagine having given your kids a perfect upbringing, for them to at somepoint be misslead and do something terrible...then imagine that you still have to face the world for what they did.

We should be praying for blessings, and we should even be praying for blessings on our Enemies...for Blessings are not asking GOD to reward, but asking GOD to reveal...and the Revelation of GOD to the Darkness creates light...its like putting a match under a piece of paper, it smokes, it goes black and eventually it bursts into flame and is completely consumed.

WE need to remember that we have weapons in this War aswell, just because we arent using them properly, and just because the Enemy seems to be using force more often. We dont need to Kill Islamists to Iradicate Islam...we need to pray that GOD actually do something...and we need to pray without ceaseing...and Christians dont tend to do that. GOD can change this situation around, but he will wait on us to ask. Meanwhile the Enemy advances, since we are actually deployed on Earth, it was given over to Darkness when Lucifer was booted out of the Heavens

"Ye have not, because Ye ask not"

and a short five moment prayer wont cut it

I think you are wrong. I think what God is waiting on is another David. He's waiting on us to stand up and defend him and not whimper down and become a coward. It's time to fight back as Christians.

Tyburn
11-06-2009, 11:15 PM
I think you are wrong. I think what God is waiting on is another David. He's waiting on us to stand up and defend him and not whimper down and become a coward. It's time to fight back as Christians.

did you not just read PTMs post above....about Christian Martyrs :angry::rolleyes:

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 11:20 PM
we need to pray that GOD actually do something...and we need to pray without ceaseing...and Christians dont tend to do that. GOD can change this situation around, but he will wait on us to ask. Meanwhile the Enemy advances, since we are actually deployed on Earth, it was given over to Darkness when Lucifer was booted out of the Heavens

sorry about that dave I was referring to the part on where you said God is waiting for us to ask. I think this has been in our Prayers for a very long time and now God wants us to stand up and start protecting him. Sorry for the confusion.

donaldbreland
11-06-2009, 11:26 PM
I am not talking about going out there and killing innocent people either. I'm talking about putting prayer back into our schools. I'm talking about joining groups to put higher restrictions on immigrants from entering the country. I think we should have groups to fight racism and hate in America. I just want our citizens safe and now that this happened at a military base, we actually have people saying this wasn't a terrorist attack. What has to happen for us as Americans to start standing up for what we believe in.

mscomc
11-06-2009, 11:51 PM
mscomc on your little list you forgot to add the N.A.A.C.P and the Black Panthers. The black panthers are a muslim group as well and guess what. They have ties to Obama. Wow.

:huh:

You know I tried to listen to PLAY THE MAN, and not get all riled up from you posts, but geeze man.

First of all, if you go back and READ the post I wrote regarding the "list", you will notice I put.... ETC ETC ETC......and what does "etc etc etc" mean? I will leave you to your thoughts on that one :rolleyes:

Second of all, the black panthers are NOT a muslim group. The orginal black panther group was a group founded in the 60's to promote self defense and civil rights of blacks, who lets be honest, were not being treated very nicely at the time, like getting hung from trees (to say the least)....and they were especially being harassed by (drumroll) the KKK (it was even on my list) !!!!!!! Yes it is true, they were a fairly militant type group, but I do beleive it was drastic solution to a drastic time.

I think you are getting them confused with either the Nation of Islam (who I personally think are crazy, as does mainstream Islam) or the NEW BACK PANTHER PARTY that started in around 1989... YEARS AFTER the original party had dissolved (in 1976'ish). The NEW party did contain many NOI members (i agree, these guys were REALLLLY BAD)

the NAACP is another civil rights group that tried to advance colored people in society via: education, increased socio-economic status etc etc ....they were founded in 1909 in a time, when blacks still had to drink out of "colored only" water coolers....so you will have to excuse them if they felt a little hurt. In recent times, their goals have primarily been to set up education funds and other philanthropic ideas in under-privelleged areas. I didn't realize they were this CRAZY WILD group. Are you afraid of Black people learning to read or something? are you afraid they may learn to read above your grade level and somehow overthrow your business ?

Man your ignorance is absolutely astounding. HAVE YOU TRIED OPENING A FREAKING BOOK? or do you just watch 9 minute youtube videos on CONSPIRACY THEORIES?

******PLAY----im sorry man i tried, i really did.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:09 AM
No I just speak the facts. I am not scared of blacks I am just tired of groups of people calling us white people racist and we as whites are supposed to sit here and take it without saying how we feel. I said the black panthers was a muslim group. They are. I don't care if it's the old group or the new group. A racist is a racist is a racist.

I don't care what you think about me but I am tired of this crap where we as whites are losing our freedom. So what if they were slaves 300 years ago. they are better off now and guess what No black in the United states was never a slave or never met a slave so quit crying about equal rights. They (blacks) have just as much opportunity as whites do. Do not even say nothing about I don't know what it's like living in the ghetto. I was the only white that was growing up in my neighborhood and when my dad got a promotion and could afford to move, he did. You make life what it is. You don't have to sell drugs to make ends meet. You sell drugs because you're scared to go out their and bust your ass to make something of yourself. Quit bitching and looking for a handout and try to work and make life a little easier. Their is tons of black on black crime that's happening today that I am out there trying to fight by being a role model in my community by helping them learn that no matter where they come from crime and gangs is not the answer. I for one will not sit back and cry and complain because someone of another color got a job over me. I try to better myself for the next job so I can get it. I have seen several times when I was younger that I got a job over a black man. I came to the interview dressed up and the black guy came dressing all thuggafied. That's why i got the job. My brother did the same thing. he went to a job interview at walmart and dressed up like a redneck and lost the job to a black woman who was dressed to impress.
You are the one who can make your life better. If you live in a neighborhood that has a gang running it. Stand up fight back with the police and take your neighborhood over. DO NOT LET THE ENEMY WIN. You do that by not crying and complaining about what you can't do because you dont' have. You make the best out of what you do have and you fight back and win.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:12 AM
I'll tell you what. If I had a group called the National Association for the Advancement of White People do you think the media would say we are a racist group. I think the name in NAACP says it all. If the name speaks in then you probably are racist.

Black Mamba
11-07-2009, 12:23 AM
I'm just going to say this once: this thread is slowly starting to edge towards a race war. It's right at that line. The other mods or Nate may disagree with me, fine.

Argue smart, argue thoughtfully, and aruge with logos, keep the pathos at a minimum. I know it gets heated when emotions kick in, being passionate about a topic is great. But there's a line. Even though I don't spend a lot of time on here due to my mid terms and finals coming up, I will be watching this thread like a hawk.

Your friendly mod,
Lil D :)

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:28 AM
Why is it always racist when a white man brings up something that's on his mind. I do not hate black people. I go to black churches, I help black kids out in my community, I hunt at an all black hunting club. I am not a racist. I am simply sick and tired of not being able to say what i want because I might offend someone of a different color. I want equal rights for all Americans. I just don't want to see my brothers and sister in the armed forces die on our soil and someone shout out Arabic language and then people on here say things like he wasn't a terrorist. Come on if a blue van hit you in the rear end and left would you tell the cops the van was red.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 12:31 AM
No I just speak the facts. I am not scared of blacks I am just tired of groups of people calling us white people racist and we as whites are supposed to sit here and take it without saying how we feel. I said the black panthers was a muslim group. They are. I don't care if it's the old group or the new group. A racist is a racist is a racist.

I don't care what you think about me but I am tired of this crap where we as whites are losing our freedom. So what if they were slaves 300 years ago. they are better off now and guess what No black in the United states was never a slave or never met a slave so quit crying about equal rights. They (blacks) have just as much opportunity as whites do. Do not even say nothing about I don't know what it's like living in the ghetto. I was the only white that was growing up in my neighborhood and when my dad got a promotion and could afford to move, he did. You make life what it is. You don't have to sell drugs to make ends meet. You sell drugs because you're scared to go out their and bust your ass to make something of yourself. Quit bitching and looking for a handout and try to work and make life a little easier. Their is tons of black on black crime that's happening today that I am out there trying to fight by being a role model in my community by helping them learn that no matter where they come from crime and gangs is not the answer. I for one will not sit back and cry and complain because someone of another color got a job over me. I try to better myself for the next job so I can get it. I have seen several times when I was younger that I got a job over a black man. I came to the interview dressed up and the black guy came dressing all thuggafied. That's why i got the job. My brother did the same thing. he went to a job interview at walmart and dressed up like a redneck and lost the job to a black woman who was dressed to impress.
You are the one who can make your life better. If you live in a neighborhood that has a gang running it. Stand up fight back with the police and take your neighborhood over. DO NOT LET THE ENEMY WIN. You do that by not crying and complaining about what you can't do because you dont' have. You make the best out of what you do have and you fight back and win.


Holy smokes..... READ WHAT YOU WROTE (the stuff in bold and that is underlined in case you have a hard time finding it, I would not want you to tax your brain to much) First you say they were slaves, and then you say no black person in the U.S was a slave? you should be ashamed.

And my U.S history is a little rusty, but I am pretty sure slaves were not granted freedom in the U.S until the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, but it didn't take full effect until 1865 when the 13th amendment was added. You may want to pull out a calculator, just in case you think I am lying to you....BUT THAT IS NOT 300 years. Geeze.

You also say "stand up, fight back with the police and take you town over" (to paraphrase).....what are you some kind of dictator? Ha, NOW YOU ARE THE MILITANT extremist.....MAYBE YOU SHOULD LEAVE AMERICA:laugh:


And finally, since this is getting off topic from the original thread, if you honestly beleive that Blacks had equal rights in the 60's or even before that (ie: days of NAACP formation) when some of these groups were formed.....well I guess I cant say anything to convince you.

Have a good life man. PEACE

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:33 AM
I am talking about now.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:34 AM
No black person LIVING in the united states was EVER a Slave.

Black Mamba
11-07-2009, 12:38 AM
I did not say that your post was racist, so please do not put words in my post. All I said is it's at a line where other people can take it the wrong way and turn it into a race war.

That's all. :)

It would be nice to have equal rights for ALL, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. But that's sadly a dream. The Civil Rights movement really got it's momentum going approximately 40-50 years ago (I'm alittle rusty on my history). And whether people want to admit it or not, any kind of -ism (race, sex, etc) is alive and well in America. That's something I doubt will ever go away.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:39 AM
That was a type o on the being slaves 300 years ago. I meant to say being slaves for 300 years. That is my bad on that part. Yes blacks had it bad in the 60's and for that I am sorry but Geez. I didn't do any of the racist crap. Most of this generation didn't go through it. You make life what it is today. You can either live a gang style drug infested life or you can live a life where you have opportunities. Again I think the NAACP and the Black Panthers are just as racist as the KKK. Tell me when the last hanging on a cross was.

J.B.
11-07-2009, 12:40 AM
It's on! It's on people! RACE WAR!!!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/2765075262_ef20ef506a.jpg

mscomc
11-07-2009, 12:42 AM
Why is it always racist when a white man brings up something that's on his mind. I do not hate black people. I go to black churches, I help black kids out in my community, I hunt at an all black hunting club. I am not a racist. I am simply sick and tired of not being able to say what i want because I might offend someone of a different color. I want equal rights for all Americans. I just don't want to see my brothers and sister in the armed forces die on our soil and someone shout out Arabic language and then people on here say things like he wasn't a terrorist. Come on if a blue van hit you in the rear end and left would you tell the cops the van was red.

Man you are such a hypocrite (I'll help you on that one, hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs)


First you want to throw all muslim americans overboard in some sea somewhere, and you want to stand up and fight back!!!!!! Now, you want equal rights for ALL americans.... hey guess what pal, muslims who were born and raised in america are citizens, it even says so ON THEIR PASSPORTS. Who knows, it may even be a muslim doctor who has to save you when you are old and need a heart operation like the rest of us :)

Well, I am glad we got that out of the way....you want equal rights for all americans.....PERFECT!!!!!

mscomc
11-07-2009, 12:44 AM
It's on! It's on people! RACE WAR!!!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/2765075262_ef20ef506a.jpg

Hey man, did you ever watch that episode where cartman and token form this like christian rock group or something.....and cartman just assumes token has a guitar in his basement......sorry off topic, but your pic reminded me of it.

J.B.
11-07-2009, 12:50 AM
Hey man, did you ever watch that episode where cartman and token form this like christian rock group or something.....and cartman just assumes token has a guitar in his basement......sorry off topic, but your pic reminded me of it.

Yeah, he just assumed Token had a Bass guitar because obviously ALL black people play bass. Their band was Faith+1 and it was one of the most hilarious episodes ever. :laugh:

The pic is from the episode were Stan's dad was on Wheel of Fortune and he said "niggers". Then when Stan was going to apologize to Token at school Cartman started yelling "RACE WAR", LOL.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 12:51 AM
In all reality this topic was a race war to begin with. Most of the Muslim people are of a different race and most of my comments were heated because of our soldiers dieing. If I offended anyone I am truly sorry and It was not my intent offend anyone. Sometimes we say things and then look back at what we said and change our minds a bit. I am not backing down about the way I feel but I am backing down on the racism. I am racist. I am racist towards anyone hurting Americans. I love this Country and I love the people of this Country. In fact I love each and every one of you guys on here. I learn so much from you guys. I look up to Nate, Chuck, Mark and Vision on Christianity views. I look up to each of you for your Politic views. I look up to matthughes rocks and foxy when I need to laugh a bit on this board.
What I guess I am trying to say is I am very thankful that we can have these heated discussions and be allowed to have them. Sometimes we might see something one way and then say something and read what we write and say wow, I made a mistake. Then sometimes we think we are right until some one points out a better reasoning. I listen to all on here. even if you have the same views I share or if you have totally different views. I still take it all in because at the end of the day this same board with all you people make me a better person and for that I thank you very much.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 12:53 AM
Yeah, he just assumed Token had a Bass guitar because obviously ALL black people play bass. Their band was Faith+1 and it was one of the most hilarious episodes ever. :laugh:

The pic is from the episode were Stan's dad was on Wheel of Fortune and he said "niggers". Then when Stan was going to apologize to Token at school Cartman started yelling "RACE WAR", LOL.


BAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, now i remember. Cartman just took the lyrics from pop songs and inserted Jesus wherever there was a name or something..... man that was soooo bad.

and the stans father thing, HAHAHAAH. jessse jackson tells him to kiss his butt, in order to make peace. HA

J.B.
11-07-2009, 12:57 AM
BAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, now i remember. Cartman just took the lyrics from pop songs and inserted Jesus wherever there was a name or something..... man that was soooo bad.

and the stans father thing, HAHAHAAH. jessse jackson tells him to kiss his butt, in order to make peace. HA


I love South Park, they always push the limits with every topic, and even though it can be crude and vulgar, it almost always has a good point and really makes you think.


Okay, back on topic now. I feel horrible for all the victims and their families at Ft. Hood.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 01:02 AM
In all reality this topic was a race war to begin with. Most of the Muslim people are of a different race and most of my comments were heated because of our soldiers dieing. If I offended anyone I am truly sorry and It was not my intent offend anyone. Sometimes we say things and then look back at what we said and change our minds a bit. I am not backing down about the way I feel but I am backing down on the racism. I am racist. I am racist towards anyone hurting Americans. I love this Country and I love the people of this Country. In fact I love each and every one of you guys on here. I learn so much from you guys. I look up to Nate, Chuck, Mark and Vision on Christianity views. I look up to each of you for your Politic views. I look up to matthughes rocks and foxy when I need to laugh a bit on this board.
What I guess I am trying to say is I am very thankful that we can have these heated discussions and be allowed to have them. Sometimes we might see something one way and then say something and read what we write and say wow, I made a mistake. Then sometimes we think we are right until some one points out a better reasoning. I listen to all on here. even if you have the same views I share or if you have totally different views. I still take it all in because at the end of the day this same board with all you people make me a better person and for that I thank you very much.

HA , CHECKMATE!!!!!! .....lol im just kidding:laugh: (read below)


Look man, what I underlined up above is a great thing for you to say. It means you love your country, and that is awesome, and I MEAN THAT. But you have to remember, being american insn't limited to being a white christian. In america, you have: jews, muslims, hindus, sikhs, buddhists, taoists, and even atheists. You will all always have one thing in common....you are ALL american. Thats one of the things that made countries like America so great.

Hating those who hurt you is not a bad thing. Here is the analogy I use. If someone hurts me, should I seek justice against him (the person who hurt me) or should I also go after his mom, dad, sister, brother, dog, cousins, and any friends he has etc etc.?


Catch you later. PEACE:)

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:19 AM
You misunderstood bro. I was more talking about not calling them pussys and butt holes.
I see what you're saying, but can you explain to me how they are not pussies and buttholes? :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:27 AM
Yeah, he just assumed Token had a Bass guitar because obviously ALL black people play bass. Their band was Faith+1 and it was one of the most hilarious episodes ever. :laugh:

The pic is from the episode were Stan's dad was on Wheel of Fortune and he said "niggers". Then when Stan was going to apologize to Token at school Cartman started yelling "RACE WAR", LOL.
Please note, if you don't watch South Park, you won't understand the following joke, it's not what you think it is...

The topic is..."People Who Annoy You"

N_GGERS

Pick a letter :laugh:

mscomc
11-07-2009, 01:29 AM
I understand what you're saying, but that's easier said than done. I have bills to pay, I'm not intersted in going bankrupt. My grandfather has basically said the same thing to me, but it just doesn't work that way. Successful politicians are almost always already independently wealthy, which isn't my case.


Where ya been hiding man? Ready for round 2?:laugh: I kid, I kid.....


To be fair man, what you are saying sounds like a little bit of a cop-out. I mean, I may disagree with you on your topic to throw all muslim americans out of the country, but if you really feel that way.....why not do something? It is very easy to sit behind a computer and criticize. (im not targeting you, im the same way)

I mean, I dont like all of what obama does or says. But one thing I do admire is that, he didnt come from money either. The guy was fairly poor, didnt have his dad around....BUT PULLED HIMSELF UP by his bootstraps, hit the books and made his way to HARVARD LAW SCHOOL. Quite possibly the most difficult professional degree program to get into in the world. And now look at him........

mscomc
11-07-2009, 01:30 AM
Please note, if you don't watch South Park, you won't understand the following joke, it's not what you think it is...

The topic is..."People Who Annoy You"

N_GGERS

Pick a letter :laugh:

ROFL.....the expression on the vanna white animation cracked me up when stans father actually answered. Ha

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:30 AM
I guess the whole point I've been trying to make is...

...WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH?? At what point do you start singling people out and do something about it? These horrible acts are carried out in the name of Islam. This isn't racist, prejudice, nor religious intolerance, speaking, it's a fact these people are trying to eradicate anybody who isn't Muslim! How much of this is needed before the rest of the world fights back? Seriously, if anybody can give me ONE GOOD REASON why I should continue to tolerate their intolerance, then I'll stop posting on this thread and zip my mouth.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 01:36 AM
I guess the whole point I've been trying to make is...

...WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH?? At what point do you start singling people out and do something about it? These horrible acts are carried out in the name of Islam. This isn't racist, prejudice, nor religious intolerance, speaking, it's a fact these people are trying to eradicate anybody who isn't Muslim! How much of this is needed before the rest of the world fights back? Seriously, if anybody can give me ONE GOOD REASON why I should continue to tolerate their intolerance, then I'll stop posting on this thread and zip my mouth.

Well in all fairness man, the world is fighting back.....remember that war going on in iraq and afghanistan..... It doesnt look like anyone is winning yet. Those guys are still going. People are quick to call them pus**es, but i disagree. I think they have balls of steele. I condem completely what they do, its terrible. But even with their crappy ak-47's and swords, they are still taking on countries like the U.S---even with their planes, rockets, cannons, mortars, advanced vehicles etc etc....

So I dont beleive your solution is to pick on the innocents who havent done anything. That will just breed more hate and animosity. You should go after extremeists whoever they are.

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:39 AM
Where ya been hiding man? Ready for round 2?:laugh: I kid, I kid.....


To be fair man, what you are saying sounds like a little bit of a cop-out. I mean, I may disagree with you on your topic to throw all muslim americans out of the country, but if you really feel that way.....why not do something? It is very easy to sit behind a computer and criticize. (im not targeting you, im the same way)

I mean, I dont like all of what obama does or says. But one thing I do admire is that, he didnt come from money either. The guy was fairly poor, didnt have his dad around....BUT PULLED HIMSELF UP by his bootstraps, hit the books and made his way to HARVARD LAW SCHOOL. Quite possibly the most difficult professional degree program to get into in the world. And now look at him........
Call it a copout all you want. I've got a great career, my family and the people I manage depend on me. I'm in no shape to leave my career to pursue another. Perhaps in another life, it'd be different, but I wasn't much into politics until I got out of school. Besides, it's my right to complain, I'm having a conversation here to see what others think, not to actively pursue something as a voice. If I really wanted to do something, I'd take it to my Congressman, he and she are my elected officials who are chosen to speak for me anyways :wink:

As for Obama, the guy's half black, he probably had his college paid for by the taxpayers. :laugh:

mscomc
11-07-2009, 01:45 AM
Call it a copout all you want. I've got a great career, my family and the people I manage depend on me. I'm in no shape to leave my career to pursue another. Perhaps in another life, it'd be different, but I wasn't much into politics until I got out of school. Besides, it's my right to complain, I'm having a conversation here to see what others think, not to actively pursue something as a voice. If I really wanted to do something, I'd take it to my Congressman, he and she are my elected officials who are chosen to speak for me anyways :wink:

As for Obama, the guy's half black, he probably had his college paid for by the taxpayers. :laugh:

sssssssstttttttt....... That one was low man, keep it above the waste :laugh:

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:47 AM
mscomc, let me ask you this. Do you think there would still be Muslim terrorist attacks on U.S. soil if there weren't any Muslims allowed in the U.S.?

Problem solved :laugh:

I'm not saying it will ever happen, I'm just saying this mathematics solves the equation.

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:49 AM
sssssssstttttttt....... That one was low man, keep it above the waste :laugh:
Hey, is it not a possibility though? Blacks get more special treatment than anybody else in the United States. Nobody can deny that's a fact.

Whites don't get Affirmative Action, whites don't have a NAAWP, etc. Just something to consider.

He probably had some scholarships through hard work. I'm not a big fan of him, but I can't deny that, at one point, he did work hard and accomplished things. Now that he got his biggest goal out of the way, it's time for him to enjoy his vacation in the White House. :laugh:

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 01:51 AM
Thank you so much Rockdawg. Finally someone has the balls to stand up and speak the truth. But guess what rockdawg, Now you are a racist. Blacks have it easier now than whites. I think I will start the NAAWP.

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 01:53 AM
Thank you so much Rockdawg. Finally someone has the balls to stand up and speak the truth. But guess what rockdawg, Now you are a racist. Blacks have it easier now than whites. I think I will start the NAAWP.
LOL, how about starting the NAEAAPERM (National Association for the Equal Advancement of All People Except Radical Muslims)?

To me, that's fair and balanced.

Yes, I'm a racist who is 1/8 Sioux, 7/8 white:
- Married to an Asian woman
- Roomed with a black guy in college for 2 of the 3 years I was there (and yes, we're still friends!)
- Sells library books to Hispanics
- Buys skin products from a Jewish woman
- My family practitioner is an Indian
- Even sold books to a few non-radical Muslims

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 01:57 AM
LoL. Have you ever watched Carlos Mencia. He speaks the truth when he says if whites tells a black joke he is racist but if a black guy tells a white joke then he's not.

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 02:01 AM
LoL. Have you ever watched Carlos Mencia. He speaks the truth when he says if whites tells a black joke he is racist but if a black guy tells a white joke then he's not.
Not really, I don't think he's that funny. He just tells the same jokes with a Mexican accent IMO. I did see him call Kanye West a "gay fish" on South Park though.

It's true. Did you see "Down to Earth" with Chris Rock? He comes back from Heaven as a white guy and he was still telling his black jokes. It's hilarious to see this old fat white guy on stage saying, "A white guy dies, he leaves a will. A brother dies, he leaves a bill." Oh, and he was at a black comedy club telling those jokes. :laugh:

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:03 AM
Thats funny.

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 02:05 AM
I am not talking about going out there and killing innocent people either. I'm talking about putting prayer back into our schools. I'm talking about joining groups to put higher restrictions on immigrants from entering the country. I think we should have groups to fight racism and hate in America. I just want our citizens safe and now that this happened at a military base, we actually have people saying this wasn't a terrorist attack. What has to happen for us as Americans to start standing up for what we believe in.

I don't want prayer back in the public schools. Do you honestly believe that they would have an orthodox (small o) Christian lead the prayer? Do you want Jewish kids forced to say a Christian prayer? Or would you make it some generic, meaningless prayer to the "Unknown God"?

If prayer was put in public school, I can give you a sample schedule. Monday, would be a "Christian" prayer led by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Tuesday, would be a Jewish prayer led by Madonna's Kabbalah rabbi. Wednesday, would be a New Age prayer by Deepak Chopra. Thursday would be a Muslim prayer with the Fort Hood shooter's Imam. Friday, would be a prayer by a Wiccan warlock.

No, thanks. I'll teach my kid to pray at home and church. I'll spend the extra money to send my kid to a private school where prayer is lead by someone I trust.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:13 AM
I actually haven't thought of it that way. I guess what I meant was I wish they would allow the kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance and let kids have Christmas plays with baby Jesus in them. I agree with the private schools. I am thinking very hard about doing that next year.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 02:25 AM
mscomc, let me ask you this. Do you think there would still be Muslim terrorist attacks on U.S. soil if there weren't any Muslims allowed in the U.S.?

Problem solved :laugh:

I'm not saying it will ever happen, I'm just saying this mathematics solves the equation.


UGGGGGGGHHHH........I think thats pretty self explanatory. if No muslims than no muslim attacks. I mean where does that stop than. Like i wrote to miss foxy, during the cocaine wars of the 80's in miami.....should we just assume that removing all: mexicans, spaniars, colombians, bolivians, cubans will eliminate drug trading in Miami?

-----I'm sorry, maybe i missed your point :laugh:.....


But you wanna talk mathematics do you? Weren't you a math major in college? Tell you what, I'll come up with a Differential Equation to analyze trends in which terror acts in the U.S.....then you can integrate it, and we will have a plan!!!!!!!:frantics:


and no more of this calling eachother by screen name, names Malcom friend

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 02:27 AM
I actually haven't thought of it that way. I guess what I meant was I wish they would allow the kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance and let kids have Christmas plays with baby Jesus in them. I agree with the private schools. I am thinking very hard about doing that next year.

The public schools can't even teach the children reading and math. I wouldn't trust them with a Nativity play. The teaching point wouldn't be: The Savior of The World was born on Christmas Day. The teaching point would be: Mary was a pregnant unwed mother, it is o.k. if you are too.

mscomc
11-07-2009, 02:29 AM
Hey, is it not a possibility though? Blacks get more special treatment than anybody else in the United States. Nobody can deny that's a fact.

Whites don't get Affirmative Action, whites don't have a NAAWP, etc. Just something to consider.

He probably had some scholarships through hard work. I'm not a big fan of him, but I can't deny that, at one point, he did work hard and accomplished things. Now that he got his biggest goal out of the way, it's time for him to enjoy his vacation in the White House. :laugh:


wait a just a gon-dang-doodilliy-darn minute (that was my ned flanders).....

aren't you part native? Didnt you get any kickbacks while attending university? mmmmmmm :wink:?

Im just messing with ya. In canada, if you can prove native status, university is pretty much taken care of for you. to be honest, im not sure how it works in the states

mscomc
11-07-2009, 02:32 AM
Thank you so much Rockdawg. Finally someone has the balls to stand up and speak the truth. But guess what rockdawg, Now you are a racist. Blacks have it easier now than whites. I think I will start the NAAWP.


So that someone wasn't you. Geeze, for a guy that makes alot of noise...to not have any grapes....i dunno.

And no, that does not make him a racist. He brings a good point. But you see, he did it nicely, intelligently, and articulated well. Maybe if you DID THAT.


In terms of other races getting grants, i think that is bad. I beleive the original intention was to help people who were under-privelleged. At the time of the grants being made, black were kind of being crapped on. But now, I think those kinds of grants should go to anyone who is really poor and disadvantaged, regardless of your: race, color, sex etc etc

shon8121
11-07-2009, 02:37 AM
I only saw a few pages... but there were so many misconceptions in it that I couldn't possibly stand by and allow it to continue.

It depends on the culture at the time as to how their holy text is interpreted. Christianities members used to burn witches at the stake. So don't act so noble.

What we've been exposed to in America are Muslim extremists. The average Muslim is quite kind... but of course there are certain things they may do or ways they may behave that you don't agree with.
Just like I don't agree with the majority of Christians that Homosexuality is wrong or unnatural (*sigh* No I'm not a Homosexual). And there are Christian extremists as well. Who here knows about the late term abortion doctor that was killed recenty, in a Church by a fellow Christian? Yeah. Extremists are unfortunately a part of every nook and cranny of society.
So again, it depends on the Culture at the time... and theirs is one that may read negative things out of their Qur'an... but their Holy Text does have verses of love and equal rights as well. Keep that in mind in the future.

And then I saw something about America being a "Christian Nation".

Negative. By definition, that would imply that its founded on Christianity, and it is not. Of course the majority of the population in America is Christian, and thats fine... but it's a myth that America is a "Christian Nation".
"God" is nowhere in the Constitution. The first amendment advocates the separation of Church and State.
And the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli which was signed by the 5th President of the US John Adams and universally by the remainding founding fathers stated very clearly that "America was in no way founded on the Christian Religion".

"Under god" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 and "In god We Trust" was put on our money in 1956.

I know this will be seen completely the wrong way, because I truly do not intend to stir **** up here... but these are the facts.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:53 AM
Christianity and America

Last week, I heard it again: That oft-repeated urban legend that we’ve heard so often. This time, to my horror, I heard it from a well-educated pastor: “Our founding fathers were not Christians. They were deists, atheists, and agnostics.”

Au contraire!

The pilgrims, as you will recall, were, Christians fleeing Europe in order to escape religious persecution, and they literally began their stay in their new land with the words, “In the name of God, Amen.”
ConstitutionSigning

The pilgrims were followed to New England by the Puritans, who created bible-based commonwealths. Those commonwealths practiced the same sort of representative government as their church covenants. Those governmental covenants and compacts numbered more than 100, and were the foundation for our Constitution.

New Haven (Connecticut) and Massachusetts were founded by Puritans who wanted to reform the Church of England, who later became known as Congregationalists. Roger Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based on the principle of freedom of conscience. Pennsylvania was established by William Penn as a Quaker colony. Maryland was a haven for Catholics from Protestant England.

America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity.

All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian. This includes the first, Harvard, where the student handbook listed this as Rule #1: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

In 1777. Continental Congress voted to spend $300,000 to purchase bibles which were to be distributed throughout the 13 colonies! And in 1782, the United States Congress declared, “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.

So, let us take a look at some of the lives and words of our Founding Fathers to see whether they were Christians or whether history has been revised.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:55 AM
John Adams

John Adams was born in 1735 in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. He was a Harvard-educated lawyer, and a delegate to both the First and Second JohnAdamsContinental Congresses. A leader in the independence movement, he served diplomatically in France and Holland during the Revolutionary War. He was instrumental in negotiating the Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War.

After the war, he served as minister to the Court of St. James, and then George Washington’s Vice President before becoming the second president of the United States.

On March 6, 1789, President Adams called for a national day of fasting and prayer for the country could "call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgression, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience. . ."

A few other quotes which demonstrate Adams’ thoughts about Jesus are below.

On April 18, 1775, a British soldier ordered him, John Hancock, and others to “disperse in the name of George the Sovereign King of England. Adams responded to him:

“We recognize no sovereign but God, and no king but Jesus!”

In an October 13, 1789 address to the military, he said:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

In a letter to Thomas Jefferson dated June 28, 1813, he said

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity"

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:57 AM
Please note this from my last post. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
That is by John Adams

shon8121
11-07-2009, 02:58 AM
donald - I have quotes from John Adams too that aren't so much on the side of Christianity...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
...but thats not the point here.

The point was that America was not founded on the Christian Religion. Of course there were many Founding Fathers that were Christian. Absolutely.

But they understood the reasons why we needed to have a Secular Constitution. Mostly to protect whatever Religion anyone in America wanted to participate in. They didn't want to discriminate.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 02:58 AM
George Washington

George Washington, known as the "Father of Our Country," was a farmer, military officer, and the first President of the United States. GeorgeWashington

In 1753, at the age of 21 and with no previous military experience, he became a major in the Virginia militia during the French and Indian Wars. Within two years, he was in command of all the Virginia forces. In 1758, he was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses and left the army in order to serve in the House from 1759-1774.

He also served as vestryman in his Episcopal parish from 1763 to 1782.

In 1775, Washington was appointed military advisor for New York and was charged with defending New York from attack by the British, and within weeks, the Second Continental Congresss appointed him Commander-in-Chief of the entire military. Washington had not sought the position and he refused payment for it. In 1781, he forced the surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown and won the war.

He was President of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, and served two terms as first President of the United States under the new Constitution. He declined to serve a third term, and retired to Mount Vernon in 1797 where he died of pneumonia two years later.

In his first general order to his own troops, General Washington said he called on:

‘Every officer and man...to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.’

In a letter to all state governors in June, 1783, he wrote:

"I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government--to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their Brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love Mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, Humility, and Pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a Happy Nation."

In 1787, he warned the Constitutional Convention delegates:

“If to please the people, we offer what we ourselves disapprove, how can we afterward defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair; the event is in the Hand of God!”

In his famous Inaugural Address to both Houses of Congress, on April 30, 1789, with his hand on a Bible which was opened to Deuteronomy, Chapter 28, he said:

“Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aides can supply every human defect; that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge.

“In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow citizens at large, less than either.

“No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency.

“And in the important revolution just accomplished, in the system of their United government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage ...

“We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered as deeply, perhaps finally, staked on the experiment.”

When he proclaimed a National Day of Thanksgiving, he said:

“Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor...

“Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the twenty-sixth day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these Unites States...that we then may all unite unto him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted; for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed...

“And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions...to promote the knowledge and practice of the true religion and virtue...

“Given under my hand, at the City of New York, the 3rd of October, A.D. 1789.”

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 02:59 AM
I only saw a few pages... but there were so many misconceptions in it that I couldn't possibly stand by and allow it to continue.

It depends on the culture at the time as to how their holy text is interpreted. Christianities members used to burn witches at the stake. So don't act so noble.

What we've been exposed to in America are Muslim extremists. The average Muslim is quite kind... but of course there are certain things they may do or ways they may behave that you don't agree with.
Just like I don't agree with the majority of Christians that Homosexuality is wrong or unnatural (*sigh* No I'm not a Homosexual). And there are Christian extremists as well. Who here knows about the late term abortion doctor that was killed recenty, in a Church by a fellow Christian? Yeah. Extremists are unfortunately a part of every nook and cranny of society.
So again, it depends on the Culture at the time... and theirs is one that may read negative things out of their Qur'an... but their Holy Text does have verses of love and equal rights as well. Keep that in mind in the future.

And then I saw something about America being a "Christian Nation".

Negative. By definition, that would imply that its founded on Christianity, and it is not. Of course the majority of the population in America is Christian, and thats fine... but it's a myth that America is a "Christian Nation".
"God" is nowhere in the Constitution. The first amendment advocates the separation of Church and State.
And the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli which was signed by the 5th President of the US John Adams and universally by the remainding founding fathers stated very clearly that "America was in no way founded on the Christian Religion".

"Under god" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 and "In god We Trust" was put on our money in 1956.

I know this will be seen completely the wrong way, because I truly do not intend to stir **** up here... but these are the facts.

The "verses of love and equal rights" are early and were subsequently abrogated by later verses.

Your post shows no acknowledgment of exception and rule. If you truly believe there is no difference in violent tendencies towards one's neighbor between say an Amish or a Quaker and say a Sunni Muslim, then you are not a serious person.

NateR, the webmaster, is a devout Christian. In order to sign-up for this forum you had to provide personal contact information which would be available to him for review. I doubt you were afraid to give your information to post on this forum. I have a challenge for you. I will give you some website addresses for some "kind" Muslim forums. I challenge you to give them your real contact information and then go on the forum and make some challenging remarks about Islam. I doubt you will because within 24 hours your e-mail would be filled with death threats.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:03 AM
Noah Webster

Noah Webster, the Father of American Education, was a revolutionary soldier, judge, legislator, American Founder, and the creator of Webster's Dictionary. He served served nine terms in the Connecticut General NoahWebsterAssembly, three terms in the Massachusetts Legislature, and four years as a judge. One of the first Founding Fathers to call for a Constitutional Convention, he was also one of the most active in the ratification of the Constitution.

He was responsible for the copyright and patent protection clause (Article I, Section 8, ¶ 8) of the Constitution and wrote textbooks.

He strongly believed that all Americans should speak the same language, and he was quite concerned about spelling and pronunciation. Hence, he compiled the first American dictionary. His first edition was published in 1806 with 37,000 words. He published two more the following year. He spent the rest of his life cataloguing words. In 1828, he completed his final dictionary, one with 70,000 words. He used words like “color” instead of “colour,” and “magic” instead of “magick” and added uniquely American words such as “skunk,” “hickory,” and “chowder.”

On December 20, 1808, he wrote in a letter to Thomas Dawes:

“About a year ago, an unusual revival of religion took place in New Haven...and I was lead by a spontaneous impulse of repentance, prayer, and entire submission of myself to my Maker and Redeemer. In the month of April last, I made a profession of faith.”. This unusual revival was a part of the Great Awakening that shook America in the early 19th Century.”

As evidenced in his textbook, “History of the United States, published in 1832, he believed that Christianity and government could not and should not be separated:

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person, a brother or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions of government."

He is also quoted as saying:

"Every civil government is based upon some religion or philosophy of life. Education in a nation will propagate the religion of that nation. In America, the foundational religion was Christianity. And it was sown in the hearts of Americans through the home and private and public schools for centuries. Our liberty, growth, and prosperity was the result of a Biblical philosophy of life. Our continued freedom and success is dependent on our educating the youth of America in the principles of Christianity."

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 03:05 AM
John Adams

John Adams was born in 1735 in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. He was a Harvard-educated lawyer, and a delegate to both the First and Second JohnAdamsContinental Congresses. A leader in the independence movement, he served diplomatically in France and Holland during the Revolutionary War. He was instrumental in negotiating the Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War.

After the war, he served as minister to the Court of St. James, and then George Washington’s Vice President before becoming the second president of the United States.

On March 6, 1789, President Adams called for a national day of fasting and prayer for the country could "call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgression, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience. . ."

A few other quotes which demonstrate Adams’ thoughts about Jesus are below.

On April 18, 1775, a British soldier ordered him, John Hancock, and others to “disperse in the name of George the Sovereign King of England. Adams responded to him:

“We recognize no sovereign but God, and no king but Jesus!”

In an October 13, 1789 address to the military, he said:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

In a letter to Thomas Jefferson dated June 28, 1813, he said

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity"


Donaldbreland, John Adams was not a Christian, he was a Unitarian (Arian). He was a good man and America was lucky to have him as a politician, but he was not a Christian. He denied the Trinity. He denied the Athanasian creed.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:06 AM
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson attended William and Mary College where he studied math, science, literature, philosophy, and law. In April 1767, he was ThomasJeffersonadmitted to the Virginia bar. He soon became known as a champion of independence from England. In 1775, he was appointed to the First Continental Congress, and in 1776, the Second Continental Congress which chose him to author the Declaration of Independence. He served in the Virginia House of Delegates, and he was the governor of Virginia during the Revolutionary War

After the war, he served in Paris as America's minister to France. During his absence, members of the Constitutional Convention contacted him, asking for his support of the new constitution. He gave that support, but only on the condition that the Bill of Rights be added.

When he returned from Paris, he served as President Washington's secretary of state until 1793. He ran for president against John Adams in 1796, but became Adams's vice-president, as the custom during those days was for the winner to become president and the loser to be his vice president. He ran again in 1800 and won, serving two terms as America's third president. While he was in office, he commissioned Lewis and Clark to lead an expedition across the Louisiana Purchase.

After his second term in 1808, Jefferson returned to his Virginia plantation, Monticello, where he worked as an inventor, scientist, architect, and linguist. It was during those years that he established the University of Virginia. Jefferson died on July 4, 1826, fifty years to the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed and. Coincidentally, that was the same day that John Adams died.

Raised Episcopalian, Jefferson believed that the New Testament had been polluted by early Christians eager to make Christianity palatable to pagans. He believed that they had mixed the words of Jesus with the teaschings of Plato and the philosophy of the ancient Greeks. The authentic words of Jesus were still there, he assured his friend, John Adams. He determined to extract the "authentic" words of Jesus from the rubble which he believed surrounded His real words. That book, intended as a primer for the Indians on Christ’s teachings, is commonly known as the "Jefferson Bible."

Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."

In 1803, at the request of President Thomas Jefferson, the United States Congress allocated federal funds for the salary of a preacher and the construction of his church. That same year, Congress, again at Jefferson’s request, ratified a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians. Congress recognized that most of the members of the tribe had been converted to Christianity, and Congress gave a subsidy of $100.00 a year for seven years for the support of a priest so that he could “instruct as many ... children as possible.”

On April 21, 1803, Jefferson wrote this to Dr. Benjamin Rush (also a signer of the Declaration of Independence):

“My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.”

In that same letter, he wrote,

“To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others.”

In a letter to William Short on October 31, 1819, he wrote:

“But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.”

shon8121
11-07-2009, 03:07 AM
Donald - I refer you to my previous point. And Thomas Jefferson had his own version of the Bible... with all of the Miracles and divine intervention cut out of it...

PlaytheMan - I think the death threats from Muslims would be about as serious as the "you will burn in hell for eternity" comments from some Christians.

I'm glad that you do not deny that there are kind verses in the Qur'an... as I said it depends on the culture of the time how to interpret their Holy Text.
Do you agree that it's ok to chop off a womans hands if she aids her husband by grabbing his attacker by the Genitals?

There are negative verses in the Bible too. Just remember to look at things in context.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:07 AM
Samuel Adams

Known as the “Father of the American Revolution” and the “Firebrand of the Revolution,” Sam Adams was arguably the most effective verbal SamAdamsrabble-rouser in American history. He was a leader in the events leading up to the American Revolution, helped to found the Sons of Liberty, formed , Boston’s Committee of Correspondence, was a member of the first Continental Congress and signed the Declaration of Independence. He helped to draft the Articles of Confederation and served as President in the Massachusetts Senate before becoming the Lieutenant Governor and subsequently the Governor of Massachusetts.

He was also a steadfast Christian. In “The Rights of the Colonists,” which he wrote in 1772, he said:

“The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.”

After signing the Declaration of Independence, he proclaimed:

"We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.

In his February, 1795 Proclamation for a Day of Public Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, then Governor Adams said:

“That with true repentance and contrition of Heart, we may unitedly implore the forgiveness of our Sins, through the merits of Jesus Christ, and humbly supplicate our Heavenly Father, to grant us the aids of his Grace, for the amendment of our Hearts and Lives, and vouchsafe his smiles upon our temporal concerns.”

And finally, these are the words in his Last Will and Testament:

“Principally, and first of all, I resign my soul to the Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying on the merits of Jesus Christ for the pardon of my sins.”

J.B.
11-07-2009, 03:08 AM
This thread has become Copypasta

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:08 AM
Alexander Hamilton

Alexander Hamilton was secretary and aide-de-camp to George Washington from 1777 to 1781. He was a member of the Continental AlexanderHamiltonCongress in 1782-83 and in 1787-88. In 1787, he was a representative to the Constitutional Convention. He was the first United States Secretary of the Treasury, and ran for the presidency against Aaron Burr in 1800 and then for Governor of New York in 1804.

Hamilton, who regularly led his household in prayer, also wrote about the connection between Christianity and political freedom. He helped to form the Christian Constitutional Society. In an 1802 letter to co-founder James Bayard, he said:

"I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated 'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.

“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.”

He was fatally shot in a duel with Burr in July of 1804. His last words were:

I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.

Vizion
11-07-2009, 03:09 AM
I only saw a few pages... but there were so many misconceptions in it that I couldn't possibly stand by and allow it to continue. :laugh: That sounds sooo snooty...sorry I couldn't help it.

What we've been exposed to in America are Muslim extremists. The average Muslim is quite kind... but of course there are certain things they may do or ways they may behave that you don't agree with. The average Muslim remains silent about these events too. Where is the OUTRAGE? Show me some news footage of Muslims protesting Muslim extremists.

And there are Christian extremists as well. Who here knows about the late term abortion doctor that was killed recenty, in a Church by a fellow Christian? Yeah. Extremists are unfortunately a part of every nook and cranny of society. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

So again, it depends on the Culture at the time... and theirs is one that may read negative things out of their Qur'an... but their Holy Text does have verses of love and equal rights as well. Keep that in mind in the future. Equal rights for women? Show me those verses please.

And then I saw something about America being a "Christian Nation". Negative. By definition, that would imply that its founded on Christianity, and it is not. Of course the majority of the population in America is Christian, and thats fine... but it's a myth that America is a "Christian Nation". Who founded America? What religion were they? And no one asked YOU if its "ok" if the majority of Americans are Christian :rolleyes:

"God" is nowhere in the Constitution. The first amendment advocates the separation of Church and State. So what anti-Christian, anti-religion website did you cull this rhetoric? Do you know who NateR is yet? He will likely disect your arguments.

I know this will be seen completely the wrong way, because I truly do not intend to stir **** up here... but these are the facts.Oh yes you do. You are a troll, and you will find yourself VERY unwelcome here if you continue being one.

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 03:10 AM
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson attended William and Mary College where he studied math, science, literature, philosophy, and law. In April 1767, he was ThomasJeffersonadmitted to the Virginia bar. He soon became known as a champion of independence from England. In 1775, he was appointed to the First Continental Congress, and in 1776, the Second Continental Congress which chose him to author the Declaration of Independence. He served in the Virginia House of Delegates, and he was the governor of Virginia during the Revolutionary War

After the war, he served in Paris as America's minister to France. During his absence, members of the Constitutional Convention contacted him, asking for his support of the new constitution. He gave that support, but only on the condition that the Bill of Rights be added.

When he returned from Paris, he served as President Washington's secretary of state until 1793. He ran for president against John Adams in 1796, but became Adams's vice-president, as the custom during those days was for the winner to become president and the loser to be his vice president. He ran again in 1800 and won, serving two terms as America's third president. While he was in office, he commissioned Lewis and Clark to lead an expedition across the Louisiana Purchase.

After his second term in 1808, Jefferson returned to his Virginia plantation, Monticello, where he worked as an inventor, scientist, architect, and linguist. It was during those years that he established the University of Virginia. Jefferson died on July 4, 1826, fifty years to the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed and. Coincidentally, that was the same day that John Adams died.

Raised Episcopalian, Jefferson believed that the New Testament had been polluted by early Christians eager to make Christianity palatable to pagans. He believed that they had mixed the words of Jesus with the teaschings of Plato and the philosophy of the ancient Greeks. The authentic words of Jesus were still there, he assured his friend, John Adams. He determined to extract the "authentic" words of Jesus from the rubble which he believed surrounded His real words. That book, intended as a primer for the Indians on Christ’s teachings, is commonly known as the "Jefferson Bible."

Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."

In 1803, at the request of President Thomas Jefferson, the United States Congress allocated federal funds for the salary of a preacher and the construction of his church. That same year, Congress, again at Jefferson’s request, ratified a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians. Congress recognized that most of the members of the tribe had been converted to Christianity, and Congress gave a subsidy of $100.00 a year for seven years for the support of a priest so that he could “instruct as many ... children as possible.”

On April 21, 1803, Jefferson wrote this to Dr. Benjamin Rush (also a signer of the Declaration of Independence):

“My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.”

In that same letter, he wrote,

“To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others.”

In a letter to William Short on October 31, 1819, he wrote:

“But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.”

Donaldbreland, Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian. He took a pair of scissors to a his Bible and cut out all the miracles. He thought the miracles were superstitious lies. He only said that he believed in the moral teachings of Jesus. Subsequent scholarship has shown that if he believed in the moral teachings of Jesus, he certainly didn't practice them in his personal life.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:12 AM
I have a challenge for you. I know I am a bit controversial at times but dont say my Country wasn't founded upon Christian beliefs. You show me proof that this Country wasn't founded on Christianity and I will show you proof it was. I will prove what ever you put up is wrong. Quit denying Christ. Please. If you do deny him please im me so I can at least add you in my prayers.

donaldbreland
11-07-2009, 03:14 AM
Play. I was just stating that he claimed to be a Christian. I know it's a bad example but I show both sides. The truth of it all is that this Country was founded on God.

shon8121
11-07-2009, 03:14 AM
Vizion - I request that you calm down. I have made no insults, nor am I here for a fight.

If you truly wish for me to carry the burden of proof... I will provide it:
"And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them, and men are a degree above them." (Qur'an 2:228)
"...But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has placed much good." (Qur'an 4: l9)

It's nothing worse than what the Bible says about Women. But thats about as much as I want to do when defending the Qur'an.

donald - The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli was signed by the Founding Fathers and states America was in no way founded on the Christian Religion. That is an official Document... not just some letter or quote. Thats all the proof we need, besides the Secular Constitution.

rockdawg21
11-07-2009, 03:17 AM
Wow, this conversation really got wild, lol

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 03:27 AM
Donald - I refer you to my previous point. And Thomas Jefferson had his own version of the Bible... with all of the Miracles and divine intervention cut out of it...

PlaytheMan - I think the death threats from Muslims would be about as serious as the "you will burn in hell for eternity" comments from some Christians.

I'm glad that you do not deny that there are kind verses in the Qur'an... as I said it depends on the culture of the time how to interpret their Holy Text.
Do you agree that it's ok to chop off a womans hands if she aids her husband by grabbing his attacker by the Genitals?

There are negative verses in the Bible too. Just remember to look at things in context.

Ask Theo van Gogh about death threats from Muslims. Oops, you can't . . . he was stabbed in the streets. The "Muhammad" cartoonists are in hiding as is Salmon Rushdie. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has around-the-clock bodyguards. Yale University will not publish the Muhammad cartoons in a book about the Muhammad cartoons! The producers of the upcoming movie "2012" announced this week that they cut a scene showing the destruction of the Ka'bah because of fear of reprisal. Scenes of the destruction of the Vatican and "Christ the Redeemer" in Rio were left in.

You show no ability to acknowledge the violent tendencies of Islam as compared to other major religions in the modern world.

Vizion
11-07-2009, 03:31 AM
Vizion - I request that you calm down. I have made no insults, nor am I here for a fight. Calm down? I'm not the least bit insulted. And you clearly have come to stir the pot. Keep it up, you will find out how welcome you will be.

It's nothing worse than what the Bible says about Women. But thats about as much as I want to do when defending the Qur'an. Here it comes...now you will attempt to attack the Bible, which is your real hang up, isn't it (you will deny this but I think we both know it is)? I will not indulge you. You have clearly found some website or some biased source of information (probably from the web) and are referencing back to that. Thing is, who wants to debate you? You are going to come here to attempt failingly to rationalize to a group of "unenlightend baboons", your very type reeks of snob.

shon8121
11-07-2009, 03:34 AM
Play The Man - Is that how you truly read my comments?!
I am sorry if I have not been specific enough. I am fully aware of the actions by extremist Muslims... but in opposition you seem to be ignoring the kind Muslims. Don't you think thats a little biased?

If you want to claim that Islam has members that have the most Violent tendancies to other Religions... then sure, I completely agree with you.


Vizion - I am so glad to have found an individual that is so kind. Thank you for welcoming me here. I appreciate it very much. :-)

Oh... and P.S.... all my info is from my Brain. I've spent years acquiring my knowledge on various Scientific and Religious subjects so I'm sorry if I appear to be the one getting info from some website, but I at least I'm not blatantly copying and pasting large amounts of text here. Haha. ;-)

Vizion
11-07-2009, 03:44 AM
Vizion - I am so glad to have found an individual that is so kind. Thank you for welcoming me here. I appreciate it very much. :-) You come here, begin talking down to everyone, then expect a warm welcome??? :laugh:

buh-bye.

Play The Man
11-07-2009, 03:44 AM
Donald - I refer you to my previous point. And Thomas Jefferson had his own version of the Bible... with all of the Miracles and divine intervention cut out of it...

PlaytheMan - I think the death threats from Muslims would be about as serious as the "you will burn in hell for eternity" comments from some Christians.

I'm glad that you do not deny that there are kind verses in the Qur'an... as I said it depends on the culture of the time how to interpret their Holy Text.
Do you agree that it's ok to chop off a womans hands if she aids her husband by grabbing his attacker by the Genitals?

There are negative verses in the Bible too. Just remember to look at things in context.

I think you misunderstand my comment about abrogation and the Koran. The violent verses that abrogated the earlier verses were within the same culture and time period.

I don't think you are a serious person if you think that all religions have an equal propensity to attack their neighbor.

Addressing a criticism of one religion with a criticism of another religion doesn't address the initial criticism. I hope that you don't respond to a post in the UFC section about Cheick Kongo's weak ground game with something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, well Randy Couture is old". It doesn't address the issue that was raised.