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rockdawg21
10-10-2009, 09:54 PM
Obama's First Six Months' Accomplishments

1. Offended the Queen of England .

2. Bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia .

3. Praised the Marxist Daniel Ortega.

4. Kissed Socialist Hugo Chavez on the cheek.

5. Endorsed the Socialist Evo Morales of Bolivia
.
6. Sided with Hugo Chavez and Communist Fidel Castro against Honduras .

7. Announced we would meet with Iranians with no pre-conditions while they're building their nuclear weapons.

8. Gave away billions to AIG also without pre-conditions.

9. Expanded the bailouts.

10. Insulted everyone who has ever loved a Special Olympian.

11. Doubled our national debt.

12. Announced the termination of our new missile defense system the day after North Korea launched an ICBM.

13. Released information on U.S. Intelligence gathering despite urgings of his own CIA director and the prior four CIA directors.

14. Accepted without comment that five of his cabinet members cheated on their taxes and two other nominees withdrew after they couldn't take the heat.

15. Appointed a Homeland Security Chief who identified military veterans and abortion opponents as "dangers to the nation."

16. Ordered that the word "terrorism" no longer be used and instead refers to such acts as "man made disasters."

17. Circled the globe to publicly apologize for America 's world leadership

18. Told the Mexican president that the violence in their country was because of us.

19. Politicized the census by moving it into the White House from the Department of Commerce.

20. Appointed as Attorney General the man who orchestrated the forced removal and expulsion to Cuba of a 9-year-old whose mother died trying to bring him to freedom in the United States.

21. Salutes as heroes three Navy SEALS who took down three terrorists who threatened one American life and the next day announces members of the Bush administration may stand trial for "torturing" three 9/11 terrorists by pouring water up their noses.

22. Low altitude photo shoot of Air Force One over New York City that frightened thousands of New Yorkers.

23. Sent his National Defense Advisor to Europe to assure them that the US will no longer treat Israel in a special manner and they might be on their own with the Muslims.

24. Praised Jimmy Carter's trip to Gaza where he sided with terrorist Hamas against Israel.

25. Passed a huge energy tax in the House that will make American industry even less competitive while costing homeowners thousands per year.

26. Announced nationalized health care "reform" that will strip seniors of their Medicare, cut pay of physicians, increase taxes yet another $1 trillion, and put everyone on rationed care with government bureaucrats deciding who gets care and who doesn't.

Bloomberg: Daschle says, "Health care reform will not be pain free. Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them," while former Colorado Governor Dick Lamm says seniors have "a duty to die."

If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that the President, Senators and Congressmen have their own special gold plated health care plan which is guaranteed the remainder of their lives and they are not subject to this new law if they pass it.

Please use the power of the Internet to get this message out. Talk it up at the grassroots level. We have an election coming up in one year and four months where we can reverse the dangerous direction of the Obama administration and its allies.

atomdanger
10-11-2009, 01:19 AM
What you mean to say is....

1. Offended the Queen of England. (who cares?, didn't the people who started our country LEAVE hers, and then go to war with it?)
2. Showed respect to the king of S.A., bowing is a sign of respect in some places, not a sign of worship.
3. You got me there.
4. Kissed Socialist Hugo Chavez on the cheek. (a common greeting in several countries, learn about CULTURE)
5. You got me there.
6. Who cares? What has Honduras done for you lately?
7. And? We aren't world cowboys, and we need to take a better stance than "our way or the highway" when it comes to dealing with other countries.
Didn't your parents ever teach you to talk things out?
8. You got me there.
9. You got me there.
10. ???? Please explain
11. You got me there.
12. Source?
13. Because the CIA did Bush so well right?
The same CIA who told him they were positive Iraq had WMD?
14. Didn't the ones who did pay up?
15. Source?
16. Who cares? He can call it whatever he wants.
17. Circled the globe to publicly apologize for America 's world leadership (And THANK GOD he did so, sometimes you need to apologize, we haven't done everything right and it takes a big man to admit it)
18. Told the Mexican president that the violence in their country was because of us. (isn't it? Who is letting them bring thousands of pounds of drugs into the US for profit? Mexico certainly isn't, we are)
19. Who cares?
20. and? 9 years old or not, an alien is an alien no?
21. Source?
22. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
23. THANK GOD, who cares? IMO we should take no part in religious wars.
24. Praised Jimmy Carter's trip to Gaza where he sided with terrorist Hamas against Israel. (who cares? Unless you're anti muslim, or very pro jew?)
25. What would you prefer he tax? If not energy....
26. WE NEED HEALTHCARE, everybody else on the planet gets it,
and their economy are doing ok, they are working, living, etc... in a LOT of cases they are living longer, healthier lives than us, what don't you get?

Don't say you don't wanna pay for somebody else.
What about the guy who pays taxes for schools and has no kids?
Or, the guy who doesn't own a car and pays road taxes, etc...
You want a society where other people pay for things you use,
but your greed is stopping you from being willing to pay for others?
I don't understand.
Why can every other country in the industrial world accomplish this but government propaganda fueled by the bulging pockets of those who profit from health care in this country have convinced you its a bad idea.
The United States is the only country in the world where people go bankrupt over healthcare,
and thousands die each year from having no insurance.


There, fixed :)

rockdawg21
10-11-2009, 02:03 AM
You gotta be kidding me. You actually condone most of his actions? Our President is pro-big government, pro-socialism, and that makes him anti-American.

He is directly insulting our Allies, and you tell me to learn about culture while supporting the fact that he insulted the Queen of England?! Just like the press, you're painting it one way while twisting it the other way just to make the guy look good.

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 02:21 AM
You gotta be kidding me. You actually condone most of his actions? Our President is pro-big government, pro-socialism, and that makes him anti-American.

I'm with atomdanger on a lot of this.

Note to atom: Next time if you respond to a list like this, can you leave all of the original accomplishments etc. in with your responses. It makes it easier to see how your opinion reflects each of them.

The list seems like it was written from a bitter person perspective. I endured 8 years of President Bush and his policies. The shoe is on the other foot. Suck it up and deal with it like I had to.

flo
10-11-2009, 02:28 AM
I endured 8 years of President Bush and his policies.

Just curious. What specific policies did you feel you had to "endure"?

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 02:41 AM
Just curious. What specific policies did you feel you had to "endure"?

First three off the top of my head.

1. Iraq war policy
2. The Patriot Act.
3. Policy of torture.

And by endure, I don't mean that I personally was tortured or myself forced to go to war. His policies created a poor world view of the United States as well as contributing to our current financial mess.

Again, I wasn't a fan of Clinton and liked Bush at first, but he quickly lost my favor.

He did provide some much needed comic relief whenever I listened to him speak, so he gets props for that. He and Biden together could perform as a great comedy team.

Play The Man
10-11-2009, 02:43 AM
I wish Obama would concentrate on Afghanistan as he promised during the campaign. Our generals have asked for more troops and he has not responded. He did not speak to his commanding general for over 70 days. Please watch this brief YouTube clip about his promises on Afghanistan during the campaign and compare them to the reality of his performance since he took office. In my opinion, his entire position on Afghanistan during the campaign was to paint Iraq as a "bad" war and Afghanistan as a "good" war; in large part, because at that time, the Iraq War was unpopular and the insurgency was highly active at that time. Bush stuck it out and Iraq was stabilized (for the time being). Now that Obama is in office and has the power to enact all the promises he made during the campaign, he is sitting on his hands. Of course, the media will not do their job and show his past words and confront him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga859TrvjiQ

rockdawg21
10-11-2009, 03:02 AM
I'm with atomdanger on a lot of this.
Of course you are. You and millions of other American have bought into the media hype that Obama is the Lord and Savoir of the United States and can do virtually no wrong. Tell me, what has he accomplished? The guy is nothing but press clippings.

I wish Obama would concentrate on Afghanistan as he promised during the campaign. Our generals have asked for more troops and he has not responded. He did not speak to his commanding general for over 70 days. Please watch this brief YouTube clip about his promises on Afghanistan during the campaign and compare them to the reality of his performance since he took office. In my opinion, his entire position on Afghanistan during the campaign was to paint Iraq as a "bad" war and Afghanistan as a "good" war; in large part, because at that time, the Iraq War was unpopular and the insurgency was highly active at that time. Bush stuck it out and Iraq was stabilized (for the time being). Now that Obama is in office and has the power to enact all the promises he made during the campaign, he is sitting on his hands. Of course, the media will not do their job and show his past words and confront him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga859TrvjiQ
Of course they won't, he is their poster boy, elected by the hype they created. Because he isn't living up to the hype, they will do their best to paint a pretty picture and still make his supporters believe he is God.

Play The Man
10-11-2009, 03:04 AM
Of course you are. You and millions of other American have bought into the media hype that Obama is the Lord and Savoir of the United States and can do virtually no wrong. Tell me, what has he accomplished? The guy is nothing but press clippings.


Of course they won't, he is their poster boy, elected by the hype they created. Because he isn't living up to the hype, they will do their best to paint a pretty picture and still make his supporters believe he is God.

I agree, but I am hopeful that he "jumped the shark" with the Nobel Prize win.

Play The Man
10-11-2009, 03:11 AM
Obama's First Six Months' Accomplishments

1. Offended the Queen of England .

2. Bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia .

3. Praised the Marxist Daniel Ortega.

4. Kissed Socialist Hugo Chavez on the cheek.

5. Endorsed the Socialist Evo Morales of Bolivia
.
6. Sided with Hugo Chavez and Communist Fidel Castro against Honduras .

7. Announced we would meet with Iranians with no pre-conditions while they're building their nuclear weapons.

8. Gave away billions to AIG also without pre-conditions.

9. Expanded the bailouts.

10. Insulted everyone who has ever loved a Special Olympian.

11. Doubled our national debt.

12. Announced the termination of our new missile defense system the day after North Korea launched an ICBM.

13. Released information on U.S. Intelligence gathering despite urgings of his own CIA director and the prior four CIA directors.

14. Accepted without comment that five of his cabinet members cheated on their taxes and two other nominees withdrew after they couldn't take the heat.

15. Appointed a Homeland Security Chief who identified military veterans and abortion opponents as "dangers to the nation."

16. Ordered that the word "terrorism" no longer be used and instead refers to such acts as "man made disasters."

17. Circled the globe to publicly apologize for America 's world leadership

18. Told the Mexican president that the violence in their country was because of us.

19. Politicized the census by moving it into the White House from the Department of Commerce.

20. Appointed as Attorney General the man who orchestrated the forced removal and expulsion to Cuba of a 9-year-old whose mother died trying to bring him to freedom in the United States.

21. Salutes as heroes three Navy SEALS who took down three terrorists who threatened one American life and the next day announces members of the Bush administration may stand trial for "torturing" three 9/11 terrorists by pouring water up their noses.

22. Low altitude photo shoot of Air Force One over New York City that frightened thousands of New Yorkers.

23. Sent his National Defense Advisor to Europe to assure them that the US will no longer treat Israel in a special manner and they might be on their own with the Muslims.

24. Praised Jimmy Carter's trip to Gaza where he sided with terrorist Hamas against Israel.

25. Passed a huge energy tax in the House that will make American industry even less competitive while costing homeowners thousands per year.

26. Announced nationalized health care "reform" that will strip seniors of their Medicare, cut pay of physicians, increase taxes yet another $1 trillion, and put everyone on rationed care with government bureaucrats deciding who gets care and who doesn't.

Bloomberg: Daschle says, "Health care reform will not be pain free. Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them," while former Colorado Governor Dick Lamm says seniors have "a duty to die."

If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that the President, Senators and Congressmen have their own special gold plated health care plan which is guaranteed the remainder of their lives and they are not subject to this new law if they pass it.

Please use the power of the Internet to get this message out. Talk it up at the grassroots level. We have an election coming up in one year and four months where we can reverse the dangerous direction of the Obama administration and its allies.

I hope Obama is a one-term president and that he gets very little of his agenda passed. I think his opposition needs to concentrate on the big issues: the bad economy with high unemployment, record spending, the inevitable high taxes, nuclear Iran. Focusing on things like the Queen of England/iPod incident or the photo-op Air Force One flight (although legitimate criticisms) looks petty to the swing voters.

flo
10-11-2009, 03:36 AM
I wish Obama would concentrate on Afghanistan as he promised during the campaign. Our generals have asked for more troops and he has not responded. He did not speak to his commanding general for over 70 days. Please watch this brief YouTube clip about his promises on Afghanistan during the campaign and compare them to the reality of his performance since he took office. In my opinion, his entire position on Afghanistan during the campaign was to paint Iraq as a "bad" war and Afghanistan as a "good" war; in large part, because at that time, the Iraq War was unpopular and the insurgency was highly active at that time. Bush stuck it out and Iraq was stabilized (for the time being). Now that Obama is in office and has the power to enact all the promises he made during the campaign, he is sitting on his hands. Of course, the media will not do their job and show his past words and confront him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga859TrvjiQ

Amen.

flo
10-11-2009, 03:45 AM
3. Policy of torture.



Policy of torture? Please. You mean waterboarding Khalid Sheik Muhammed (which was TOTALLY misrepresented in the NYT article, they did print a retraction on page 1,427 several weeks later). Boo-frickin'-hoo.

I don't really care to have a leader that worries about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Yes, they hate us, I guess that's why we are inundated with immigration/visa/green card applications (not to mention those that just stroll on in).




Don't worry, Play the Man, I think BHO is a one-termer for sure.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 04:26 AM
Policy of torture? Please. You mean waterboarding Khalid Sheik Muhammed (which was TOTALLY misrepresented in the NYT article, they did print a retraction on page 1,427 several weeks later). Boo-frickin'-hoo.

I don't really care to have a leader that worries about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Yes, they hate us, I guess that's why we are inundated with immigration/visa/green card applications (not to mention those that just stroll on in).




Don't worry, Play the Man, I think BHO is a one-termer for sure.

you really dont care what the rest of the world thinks of the USA. ?
do you really think the reason all those immigration/visa and green card aplications are because they think its the best country in the world to live ?

WOW.

flo
10-11-2009, 05:05 AM
you really dont care what the rest of the world thinks of the USA. ?


No, I really don't care. I'm an American, not a globalist.


do you really think the reason all those immigration/visa and green card aplications are because they think its the best country in the world to live ?

WOW.

Yes. Best country in which to live, work, have medical procedures, go to school, etc., etc.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 05:06 AM
No, I really don't care. I'm an American, not a globalist.



Yes. Best country in which to live, work, have medical procedures, go to school, etc., etc.

lol...you sure dont get out much do you.

VCURamFan
10-11-2009, 05:08 AM
you really dont care what the rest of the world thinks of the USA. ?
do you really think the reason all those immigration/visa and green card aplications are because they think its the best country in the world to live ?

WOW.
Isn't that what makes sense? I mean, yes, I believe that the reason all those people apply for immigration/visa and green card is because they think the US is the best country in the world to live. If they didn't, then why would they apply here & not wherever is "actually" the best country?

I don't really see another explanation, but I'd like to know of one if there is. What is it that I'm missing Brad?

P.S. I re-read this & realized it might sound a little snarky. It's not intended to, I'm just asking an honest question.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 05:18 AM
Isn't that what makes sense? I mean, yes, I believe that the reason all those people apply for immigration/visa and green card is because they think the US is the best country in the world to live. If they didn't, then why would they apply here & not wherever is "actually" the best country?

I don't really see another explanation, but I'd like to know of one if there is. What is it that I'm missing Brad?

P.S. I re-read this & realized it might sound a little snarky. It's not intended to, I'm just asking an honest question.

well there are several reasons that people apply for immigration into the US and one very important reason is it is an easy country to get into just like Canada is and yes we have a lot of immigration applications as well but that doesn't mean the USA or Canada are the best countries in the world to live in because they are not,
when it comes to an actual list of the best countries to live in the US doesn't make the top ten and while Canada does i dont think we are in the top 5.

flo
10-11-2009, 05:19 AM
lol...you sure dont get out much do you.

Why are you insulting me? I simply gave my opinion. For your information, I have lived in Central America and have traveled in Europe.

flo
10-11-2009, 05:21 AM
when it comes to an actual list of the best countries to live in the US doesn't make the top ten

The top ten list by whom? The United Nations?
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh yeah, we pay around 25% of their operating cost too.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 05:28 AM
Why are you insulting me? I simply gave my opinion. For your information, I have lived in Central America and have traveled in Europe.

i'm sorry if you think i am insulting you because thats not my intention,
sometimes Flo i come across in a manner in which i never intended because as Bonnie would be quick to point out i am of low intelligence and dont know any better but i am trying to improve in that regard so sorry if you are offended.

now back to the discussion,
the only reason i said anything is because a lot of Americans think they live in the best country on earth as well as a lot of Canadians think Canada is the best place to live,well they are all wrong,not that the US and Canada are bad places to live its just there are a lot of countries that are better and i think if if i'm not mistaken they list Finland as the best place to live for many reasons.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 05:35 AM
The top ten list by whom? The United Nations?
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh yeah, we pay around 25% of their operating cost too.

actually i made a mistake when i said Finland was #1 it is in fact Norway that takes top spot,
and yes it is the UNs list and they take a lot of things into consideration when they do it.

flo
10-11-2009, 05:47 AM
OK, thank you, Brad. It's easy for me to misinterpret since we're typing and not talking, eh?

I know I come across as sarcastic at times and I don't want to do that, I respect and learn a lot from the people here.

Back to the discussion. I have a friend (American) who is currently residing in Finland (Suomi, as she calls it); she moved there to go to school. Believe me, you would NOT want to live there. Health care is a real problem for her, getting treatment, getting meds. She had a hard time sleeping this last summer, it's light for 3 months - even blackout curtains don't help. She married a Finn and - contrary to what some may believe - they are having a very difficult time trying to get him a visa so they can move back here. Right now they are hoping to move to the UK.

flo
10-11-2009, 06:08 AM
actually i made a mistake when i said Finland was #1 it is in fact Norway that takes top spot,
and yes it is the UNs list and they take a lot of things into consideration when they do it.

Brad, I just have zero respect for the United Nations.

The UNHRC (China, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are currently members) repeatedly attacks Israel but never seems to want to investigate human rights abuses. UN "peacekeepers" have been charged with rape and child abuse in Burundi and Sudan. This year Ahmadinejad gave another Holocaust-denying speech and Ghaddafi went on for an hour and a half of insane ranting!

B. Netanyahu gave one of the finest speeches I have ever heard from that podium following the Ahmadinejad and Ghaddafi debacle.

First 10 minutes here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOkHZgh1Dbc


The UN is a disgrace.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 06:13 AM
OK, thank you, Brad. It's easy for me to misinterpret since we're typing and not talking, eh?

I know I come across as sarcastic at times and I don't want to do that, I respect and learn a lot from the people here.

Back to the discussion. I have a friend (American) who is currently residing in Finland (Suomi, as she calls it); she moved there to go to school. Believe me, you would NOT want to live there. Health care is a real problem for her, getting treatment, getting meds. She had a hard time sleeping this last summer, it's light for 3 months - even blackout curtains don't help. She married a Finn and - contrary to what some may believe - they are having a very difficult time trying to get him a visa so they can move back here. Right now they are hoping to move to the UK.

you are right i would not want to live in Finland in fact i'm not sure i would ever want to live any where but Canada as well you and a lot of Americans wouldn't want to live any where but the USA. and i understand that, you have a great country filled with a lot of good people but when it comes to quality of life neither country tops the list,maybe in the past but not now...although,that can all change in the future but people have to recognize there is a problem first before they can do anything about it.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 06:23 AM
Brad, I just have zero respect for the United Nations.

The UNHRC (China, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are currently members) repeatedly attacks Israel but never seems to want to investigate human rights abuses. UN "peacekeepers" have been charged with rape and child abuse in Burundi and Sudan. This year Ahmadinejad gave another Holocaust-denying speech and Ghaddafi went on for an hour and a half of insane ranting!

B. Netanyahu gave one of the finest speeches I have ever heard from that podium following the Ahmadinejad and Ghaddafi debacle.

First 10 minutes here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOkHZgh1Dbc


The UN is a disgrace.

your right the UN has a lot of room for improvement and i also question the wisdom of having a country like China as a member but when it comes to the criteria they use to determine the ranking of countries on the best and worst list they use things like life expectancy,quality of education and health care to name a few and its those types of things that countries should be judged on.

flo
10-11-2009, 06:25 AM
you are right i would not want to live in Finland in fact i'm not sure i would ever want to live any where but Canada as well you and a lot of Americans wouldn't want to live any where but the USA. and i understand that, you have a great country filled with a lot of good people but when it comes to quality of life neither country tops the list,maybe in the past but not now...although,that can all change in the future but people have to recognize there is a problem first before they can do anything about it.

I agree with what you say except for how others look at our quality of life. If the USA and Canada are ranked by the UN I would be very suspect and want to see what criteria they are using for their findings.

BTW, I live in W. WA and we go to Canada a lot, we love it there, I have several friends in Van and that's where we spent our honeymoon :-) At the Empress Hotel in Victoria.

Our favorite spot for a 3 day getaway is Harrison Hot Springs. :happydancing:




I even like GSP :-)

flo
10-11-2009, 06:31 AM
your right the UN has a lot of room for improvement and i also question the wisdom of having a country like China as a member but when it comes to the criteria they use to determine the ranking of countries on the best and worst list they use things like life expectancy,quality of education and health care to name a few and its those types of things that countries should be judged on.

The differences are so miniscule that I don't believe they are meaningful. For instance, as regards life expectancy, Australia is #1 with men at 79 and women at 84. Canada isn't even in the top ten and they are 78 and 83, respectively. USA is 77 & 81.

Quality of education, I think the quality is there but - just generalizing here - American students aren't as focused/motivated as they could or should be. Not a majorityof students, but enough to make the stats look worse than they should be.

flo
10-11-2009, 06:34 AM
Anyway, interesting discussion, Brad. I can't keep my eyes open, good night.

bradwright
10-11-2009, 06:43 AM
Anyway, interesting discussion, Brad. I can't keep my eyes open, good night.

yes i hear you,i am quite tired as well and i have a hard enough time trying to discuss anything with any sort of intelligence at the best of times ( Bonnie would say thats because i'm stupid and i now know she is right ) so i will quit while i'm behind but i do look forward to chatting with you in the future.:)

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 07:11 AM
Of course you are. You and millions of other American have bought into the media hype that Obama is the Lord and Savoir of the United States and can do virtually no wrong. Tell me, what has he accomplished? The guy is nothing but press clippings.

This is where you are making what I consider a stupid assumption. First off, I don't believe that there is any Lord and Savior, not to mention one of the United States. Second, where have I stated that I think Mr. Obama can do virtually no wrong? As for what Mr. Obama has accomplished, take a look in the thread about Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Your team lost, deal with it.


Of course they won't, he is their poster boy, elected by the hype they created. Because he isn't living up to the hype, they will do their best to paint a pretty picture and still make his supporters believe he is God.

I think most of his supporters wouldn't make an asinine assumption in believing Obama is God. All your party could manage to put up for competition was the feeble ticket of McCain/Palin. Blame your party for the stupid decisions which led to you losing out this past election.



Your party lost, suck it up and deal with it. Your assumptions don't really make you look that good, and I think that you are better than that.



Policy of torture? Please. You mean waterboarding Khalid Sheik Muhammed (which was TOTALLY misrepresented in the NYT article, they did print a retraction on page 1,427 several weeks later). Boo-frickin'-hoo.

Good to know that you condone torture. Actually it is quite sad when I think about it. Perhaps you aren't aware that the United States actually prosecuted folks after WW2 for the torture known as waterboarding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html

Did it magically not become torture when Bush authorized it? It's a pity that mankind still is lacking in values in regards to when one believes that torture is a good thing.

I don't really care to have a leader that worries about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Yes, they hate us, I guess that's why we are inundated with immigration/visa/green card applications (not to mention those that just stroll on in).

9/11 happened when some of the world thought that poorly of us. Yeah, let's piss off the rest of the world so we can have an even bigger target on our backs.



I'm not sure how to ask this question tactfully, so I'll just ask it hoping that you know my intent isn't bad. I know this forum has many members with strong religious convictions and has Jesus Christ as their Savior. Would He condone the torture known as waterboarding?

que
10-11-2009, 07:48 AM
didn't the queen of england actually say she was not offended at all by obama or his wife, and in fact she liked them alot and didn't think twice about it. the only people who made it a big deal was the media

flo
10-11-2009, 08:01 AM
Buzzard. I am speaking only for myself, ok? IMO, waterboarding is not torture. It never permanently damaged anyone, let alone killed them.

And no, I don't care to kowtow to the extremist groups that attacked us. Guess what? It doesn't matter to them if our leaders apologize all day long, until we are all living in the backwards, repressive culture they envision they will always hate us. Tough.

And just how are we "pissing off the rest of the world"? Obama has made a career out of apologizing for the USA.

flo
10-11-2009, 08:04 AM
didn't the queen of england actually say she was not offended at all by obama or his wife, and in fact she liked them alot and didn't think twice about it. the only people who made it a big deal was the media

que, I think she did say that, she was gracious, as always. Obama's gift was tacky, let's face it. But it was just a protocol mistake, blown out of proportion for partisan politics. After 8 years of BDS, Obama is going to have to take some blowback in return.

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Buzzard. I am speaking only for myself, ok? IMO, waterboarding is not torture. It never permanently damaged anyone, let alone killed them.

And you know this how? Isn't psychological damage damage? It's almost like saying rape isn't damaging if it didn't leave any visible scars.

And no, I don't care to kowtow to the extremist groups that attacked us. Guess what? It doesn't matter to them if our leaders apologize all day long, until we are all living in the backwards, repressive culture they envision they will always hate us. Tough.

Wow, are you a member of the psychic friends network? You sure seem to know an awful lot about what others are thinking.

And just how are we "pissing off the rest of the world"? Obama has made a career out of apologizing for the USA.

Look back through the Bush presidency for many examples. Sometimes an apology is better than acting like a wild west douche-bag.



P.S., have a good morning and if you are watching football tomorrow, good luck with your team. That is unless they are the Cowboys, Eagles, Giants or the team playing the Redskins, which I believe would be the Panthers this week.

rockdawg21
10-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Your party lost, suck it up and deal with it. Your assumptions don't really make you look that good, and I think that you are better than that.
Ummm....at what point did I say that I wanted McCain/Palin to win? I don't think either one of them was worth a **** as a candidate. If Palin gets nominated in 2012, I still won't vote for her. All of the choices this year sucked, except for Ron Paul IMO. Out of the top 3 choices, I'd of picked Clinton.

Once again, winning the Nobel Peace Prize was not anything accomplished by Obama. Just like his supporters, the Nobel Prize committee are blinded by star power. He didn't accomplish anything. He just talked and was given an award. In business, a person doesn't become CEO by talking, they actually have to DO something to EARN that position. Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, but where was his award? That was a REAL accomplishment.

The guy's a pop-culture icon created by the press. I don't see how ANYBODY could be so blind not to see it!

KENTUCKYREDBONE
10-11-2009, 01:11 PM
Lets not forget he fixed it where American tax money can pay for someone overseas to kill their unborn Child! As for torture,Well if it's torture the terrorist or let my Family die,Light up the Terrorist! I ain't to worried about being nice to some nut job that wants to kill as many innocent people as they can!

Josh
10-11-2009, 04:17 PM
Brad, I just have zero respect for the United Nations.

The UNHRC (China, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are currently members) repeatedly attacks Israel but never seems to want to investigate human rights abuses. UN "peacekeepers" have been charged with rape and child abuse in Burundi and Sudan. This year Ahmadinejad gave another Holocaust-denying speech and Ghaddafi went on for an hour and a half of insane ranting!

B. Netanyahu gave one of the finest speeches I have ever heard from that podium following the Ahmadinejad and Ghaddafi debacle.

First 10 minutes here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOkHZgh1Dbc


The UN is a disgrace.
Wow. Thanks a lot for that link flo. I had not seen it and I agree that it is one of the better speeches I have heard. What he said about giving hear to someone who denies the holocoust was really to the point.

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Ummm....at what point did I say that I wanted McCain/Palin to win? I don't think either one of them was worth a **** as a candidate. If Palin gets nominated in 2012, I still won't vote for her. All of the choices this year sucked, except for Ron Paul IMO. Out of the top 3 choices, I'd of picked Clinton.

My mistake and my own stupid assumption.

Once again, winning the Nobel Peace Prize was not anything accomplished by Obama.

He actually has accomplished things as shown in the Nobel Prize thread, some of it wasn't during his presidency.

Just like his supporters, the Nobel Prize committee are blinded by star power. He didn't accomplish anything.

Again, he has but you say he hasn'tHe just talked and was given an award.

In business, a person doesn't become CEO by talking, they actually have to DO something to EARN that position.

You haven't looked at some of the leadership in the business field lately. Some of the financial mess can be attributed to some of these CEO's IMO.

Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, but where was his award? That was a REAL accomplishment.

Reagan played a part in it, but wasn't the sole instrument. There were many factors at play in the ending of the cold war. Reagan also played a part in the Iran/Contra scandal, remember that? Nice supply of arms he sent to Iran.

The guy's a pop-culture icon created by the press.

And Reagan wasn't? Well, Reagan had Hollywood helping him too.

I don't see how ANYBODY could be so blind not to see it!

I get it, you don't like Obama. I hope that his actions will turn your opinion around.

flo
10-11-2009, 06:57 PM
It's almost like saying rape isn't damaging if it didn't leave any visible scars.
How dare you put words in my mouth like that. I am done talking to you.

Vizion
10-11-2009, 07:23 PM
Hey Buzzard, do you oppose using Water boarding in any case?

rockdawg21
10-11-2009, 07:43 PM
Hey Buzzard, do you oppose using Water boarding in any case?
I do. If there's a terrorist who helped destroy the WTC, then we should treat them with care and compassion and send them to a tropical paradise rather than give them the beating and torture they truly deserve. :sign0094:

Buzzard
10-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Hey Buzzard, do you oppose using Water boarding in any case?

I oppose the use of torture, so the answer is yes. For a nation that some like to believe America is a Christian nation, how does one reconcile the use of torture?

I do. If there's a terrorist who helped destroy the WTC, then we should treat them with care and compassion and send them to a tropical paradise rather than give them the beating and torture they truly deserve. :sign0094:

What kind of logic are you using to make that assumption? Read up on how the use of torture to gain information and how it is unreliable.

How dare you put words in my mouth like that. I am done talking to you.

It never permanently damaged anyone, let alone killed them.




I didn't put words in your mouth. I used your sense of logic against your own argument. You didn't like it and accuse me of putting words in your mouth. Care to try defending your logic on this? You are the one who said it never permanently damaged anyone. Care to share how you came to that conclusion? Is psychological damage damage?

flo
10-11-2009, 09:45 PM
I didn't put words in your mouth. I used your sense of logic against your own argument. You didn't like it and accuse me of putting words in your mouth. Care to try defending your logic on this?

Listen real hard. You said "That's almost like saying...". OK? I don't have to defend my "logic", it's my opinion.

Wow, are you a member of the psychic friends network? You sure seem to know an awful lot about what others are thinking. Another smarmy comment. In case you missed it, OBL and Ahmadinejad, among other extremists, have made it abundantly clear, in their own words, by fatwa, video recordings, audio recordings, letters, you name it, what their end game is. I don't need to be "psychic" to understand that.

You are the one who said it never permanently damaged anyone. Care to share how you came to that conclusion? Is psychological damage damage?
Yes, pardon me that I didn't specify PHYSICAL damage, I wrongly assumed you could infer that from my post. But just so you understand, I don't care if the head choppers/fanatics suffer any psychological damage. Whoop.

Have fun trolling, you are now in scroll-over territory as far as I'm concerned.

rockdawg21
10-11-2009, 10:07 PM
What kind of logic are you using to make that assumption? Read up on how the use of torture to gain information and how it is unreliable.
So we should free suspected terrorists and send them to an island paradise at our expense rather than torturing them for what they did to thousands of Americans? Yes, that's GREAT logic.

Vizion
10-11-2009, 10:29 PM
I oppose the use of torture, so the answer is yes. For a nation that some like to believe America is a Christian nation, how does one reconcile the use of torture?
So what if terrorists were holding your child captive, and the only way to get the information from them was through the use of torture?
Would you oppose it then?

Buzzard
10-12-2009, 01:51 AM
So what if terrorists were holding your child captive, and the only way to get the information from them was through the use of torture?
Would you oppose it then?

How would one know if the one in custody has the information? Should everyone be tortured? Where does it end? Should we torture everyone in custody because they might know something? Should we torture speeders because they might know someone who knows someone who thought about something bad? Torture as U.S policy is wrong.

I'll answer your question and pose a "what if" to you since I answered the one you posed to me. Yes I would oppose it, but the question means little to me because I have no children. Even if you ask it substituting other family members, I still oppose torture. Why should we sink to the level of terrorists? Aren't we above that? Aren't we civilized?

What if terrorists had your child in custody, and if you tortured a suspected member of the terrorist group, they would in turn torture and then kill your child?

We could do these "what if" scenarios all day with each of us one upping the other. How would you know if information you got from torture was of any value? Again, where does it end? Have you read any information from the professional interrogators who say it has little or no value? I don't need their opinions to formulate my own, but I value their opinions over non-professionals who think it is a good thing.

Listen real hard. You said "That's almost like saying...". OK? I don't have to defend my "logic", it's my opinion.

I see, are you unable to defend your opinion with logic or reason? Is it an emotional response rather than a well reasoned logical response?

Another smarmy comment. In case you missed it, OBL and Ahmadinejad, among other extremists, have made it abundantly clear, in their own words, by fatwa, video recordings, audio recordings, letters, you name it, what their end game is. I don't need to be "psychic" to understand that.

So we should become like the extremists which we so despise?

Yes, pardon me that I didn't specify PHYSICAL damage, I wrongly assumed you could infer that from my post. But just so you understand, I don't care if the head choppers/fanatics suffer any psychological damage. Whoop.

So you don't care if a "suspected" person who is actually innocent of any terrorist or criminal acts is tortured? It is a question not a statement. I see you won't even answer the questions posed to you. Can I ask you why?

Why would I assume you meant PHYSICAL damage when torture is the application of extreme physical and psychological suffering? Are there forms of torture which you don't approve?

Have fun trolling, you are now in scroll-over territory as far as I'm concerned.

If you can't answer the questions and want to back away from this discussion, go ahead. Pardon me for asking tough questions which you are uncomfortable with. It is not my intent to antagonize you or to troll you. I am interested in the logic and reasoning behind opinions.

Play The Man
10-12-2009, 02:27 AM
Before 9/11, I was totally against "torture" in any circumstance. My opinion changed after 9/11. It certainly appears that "torture" worked in the case of KSM. He provided information after being waterboarded and those leads were investigated and reportedly broke up terror attack plans. I think Buzzard is bringing up some very important points, though. It would be very easy to abuse a policy that allowed "torture". Giving our government this power, without significant checks and balances, could lead to dangerous, unforeseen consequences. I think that the "torture" (or "enhanced interrogation") should be limited to actions that do not permanently injure or disfigure a person. The "enhanced interrogation" should be approved by the president, with leaders of Congress informed of the action. It should only be used in circumstances where there is a high likelihood that the prisoner has information that would prevent mass casualties.

Buzzard
10-12-2009, 03:22 AM
Before 9/11, I was totally against "torture" in any circumstance. My opinion changed after 9/11. It certainly appears that "torture" worked in the case of KSM. He provided information after being waterboarded and those leads were investigated and reportedly broke up terror attack plans. I think Buzzard is bringing up some very important points, though. It would be very easy to abuse a policy that allowed "torture". Giving our government this power, without significant checks and balances, could lead to dangerous, unforeseen consequences. I think that the "torture" (or "enhanced interrogation") should be limited to actions that do not permanently injure or disfigure a person. The "enhanced interrogation" should be approved by the president, with leaders of Congress informed of the action. It should only be used in circumstances where there is a high likelihood that the prisoner has information that would prevent mass casualties.

While I disagree with your opinion on the use of torture, thank you for the well thought out response and reasons.

que
10-12-2009, 03:37 AM
So what if terrorists were holding your child captive, and the only way to get the information from them was through the use of torture?
Would you oppose it then?

if you did that, you would be reacting on emotions. plus, you would be breaking the constitution. if there is one things american have always been proud of (at least until recently) is that we do NOT condone torture in any way shape or form. as we all know, bush bended those rules during his administration but that was WRONG. there is no excuse, because it is immoral and i believe anyone who tortures another human being will walk out of that torture room forever changed. a part of your heart and soul will be empty. in

could you torture another man, inflict immoral pain and suffering just to get information out of him? could you sleep at night after doing that? anyone with a conscience would know it was wrong to do that. if you are the kind of person who feels you could torture a human being and not feel that it was immoral and evil, then go for it. i for one would never torture a man, and i would never support it. as mccain says... (coming from a man who was tortured) torture is wrong. and for americans to do that makes us look bad as an entire nation. plain and simple.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 06:57 AM
Look here guys. We have to stand up as a Nation and come together and ask the government what in the heck is going on. I think this mess started back with Bush and Obama is tearing it up even more. There was a time in this country when being and American actually meant you would die for this country just as our forefathers did. We have troops over in Iraq and in Afghanistan right now dieing for our freedom. Do you know why there dieing? They are dieing because they truly believe in America and what it stands for. They believe that they can win so give them some dang courage. Give them your support. Quit being cowardly sissies. The terrorist came over here and reeked havoc on our country and you don't think that they should be tortured. If you don't think they should be punished then you need to pack up your bags and get out our country right now. What about the torture they did do our people by cutting off peoples heads on tv. That's not right. It shouldn't be that way. We are in a war right now. Overseas and over here. I don't see how for one minute those of you can say Obama is good for our country and eat, sleep and breath American air. This man is ruining our country. He is ruining our dollar. He has spent more money and giving to institutions that is corrupt. We needed a President that would stand up for our country and not bad mouth it. Think about how many soldiers died defending our honor. In fact 1,346,000 men and women died defending our honor. You know what i bet you don't even get up in the morning and thank God for letting you live another day or to ask God to help protect our Armed Forces. I bet all you think about is what can this country do for you. Well if you love this country and care about this country then get up off you butts and help out our military. Send them thank you cards. Take them fishing when they get back. Take time out of your day and welcome them back when they return home. Obama is not our savior God is. I don't care how much ish you talk about me turning this into a God thing but guess what I am.
What has he accomplished in 9 months? You talk about health care but you don't know whats in the bill. So how can you support it? Don't tell me you know what it entitles because the democrats don't even know whats in the bill that's why most democrats are against it. What do you think about Obama speaking at the NAACP awards and saying black people don't have the same rights as whites. Glenn Beck called it right when he called him a racist. How in the world did we as Americans vote a man in who is of the same kind as we are at war with? Obama is trying to push, push , push these bills through but when his own general who he appointed in office said he needs 40,000 more troops Obama said he needs to think this through. Look America is supposed to be the strongest country in the World. Obama is crashing us. Lets stand up ask true questions that need to be asked and lets take America back. My country, 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing;
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!

2
My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture thrills,
Like that above.

3
Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song;
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.

4
Our fathers' God to Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright,
With freedom's holy light,
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God our King.

5 (added to celebrate Washington's Centennial)[4]
Our joyful hearts today,
Their grateful tribute pay,
Happy and free,
After our toils and fears,
After our blood and tears,
Strong with our hundred years,
O God, to Thee.

Additional verses by Henry van Dyke

6
We love thine inland seas,
Thy groves and giant trees,
Thy rolling plains;
Thy rivers' mighty sweep,
Thy mystic canyons deep,
Thy mountains wild and steep,--
All thy domains.

7
Thy silver Eastern strands,
Thy Golden Gate that stands
Fronting the West;
Thy flowery Southland fair,
Thy North's sweet, crystal air:
O Land beyond compare,
We love thee best!

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 07:10 AM
Buzzard I personally don't think you know what in the blank your talking about. Actually on any view on any post I have read from you in the short while I have been on this forum. I know each person is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm giving you mine. I think people like yourself is the reason this country has gone to crap over the last few years. Your views suck. I don't care if I had a child or not I am not going to cry about paying school taxes. I don't care if I have a car or not. I'm not going to complain about paying road taxes. How do you get to the store? Two things are for certain. We need the roads and kids are our future. Matter of fact we need to raise school taxes. We need more money for education. Another thing I want to ask you. Do you believe in God? If not then why? If so then why? How old are you? Honestly do you really believe Obama is the answer? Do you honestly think he is going to help our country? He was the senator for Illinois correct. What good has he did for that state? He is not the answer? God is the answer. Put him first in your life and I promise you will be a better person.

Buzzard
10-12-2009, 09:17 AM
Look here guys. We have to stand up as a Nation and come together and ask the government what in the heck is going on. I think this mess started back with Bush and Obama is tearing it up even more.

You're entitled to your opinions and I would never wish to deny you that right. Americans came together and voted for Obama and not the Republican ticket. What do you think the McCain/Palin ticket would have done for America if they had won?


There was a time in this country when being and American actually meant you would die for this country just as our forefathers did.

I still believe it is that way. Look at all of the brave volunteers in our Armed Forces who are still dying today in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11.


We have troops over in Iraq and in Afghanistan right now dieing for our freedom.

Please explain how our being in Iraq has anything to do with our freedom. It has to do with their freedom. I don't mean to say that what they are doing isn't honorable, but it is not for our freedom. Too many of our brave young men and women have lost their lives because of the former president.


Do you know why there dieing? They are dieing because they truly believe in America and what it stands for. They believe that they can win so give them some dang courage. Give them your support.

They have my full support and I have no problem with them being funded to protect themselves.

Quit being cowardly sissies. The terrorist came over here and reeked havoc on our country and you don't think that they should be tortured.

Yes, but which terrorists were Iraqi citizens? No, I don't think anyone should be tortured, I thought I made my point quite clear. How did you get to someone being a cowardly sissy because they don't support torture?


If you don't think they should be punished then you need to pack up your bags and get out our country right now.

Who says they shouldn't be punished? The terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 are dead. How are you going to punish them some more, call them names?/sarcasm


What about the torture they did do our people by cutting off peoples heads on tv. That's not right. It shouldn't be that way.

You're right, that wasn't right and shouldn't be that way. How is our torturing people going to make it right? When do two wrongs make a right? Do you wish to lower yourself to their level? If everyone jumps off a bridge, are you going to do that too?


We are in a war right now. Overseas and over here.

That's funny, I don't recall any war updates from the American front.


I don't see how for one minute those of you can say Obama is good for our country and eat, sleep and breath American air.

It's quite easy. Insert food in mouth, chew, swallow. I think you can figure out how the sleeping and breathing part go.


This man is ruining our country. He is ruining our dollar. He has spent more money and giving to institutions that is corrupt.

What would you have done in your first 9 months in office if left with the same situation Obama came into his term? Please let me hear in detail what you would have done.


We needed a President that would stand up for our country and not bad mouth it.

Can you please provide me details where Obama hasn't stood up for and bad-mouthed our country?


Think about how many soldiers died defending our honor. In fact 1,346,000 men and women died defending our honor.

Not a day passes where I don't think of the men and women who have sacrificed their lives.


You know what i bet you don't even get up in the morning and thank God for letting you live another day or to ask God to help protect our Armed Forces.

Here you are correct. I don't thank something I don't believe in. Can you offer me something or some proof to change my belief?


I bet all you think about is what can this country do for you. Well if you love this country and care about this country then get up off you butts and help out our military. Send them thank you cards. Take them fishing when they get back. Take time out of your day and welcome them back when they return home.

Well you just lost that bet. I have helped the military in more ways than you could imagine I would surmise. Tell me this, have you ever escorted anyone coming to pick up remains of fallen heroes? Have you ever rallied up your co-workers and let other parts of your job sit while you make sure that remains of fallen heroes get the dignity and respect that they deserve after they made their final flight before being interred? Have you ever handled the remains of a fallen hero? If not, you have no room to talk to me.


Obama is not our savior God is. I don't care how much ish you talk about me turning this into a God thing but guess what I am.

Since I don't believe in God or believe that Obama is our savior, you just struck out.


What has he accomplished in 9 months?

Read what I posted in this or another thread for a list of some accomplishments. What have you accomplished in the past 9 months? Just curious.


You talk about health care but you don't know whats in the bill. So how can you support it? Don't tell me you know what it entitles because the democrats don't even know whats in the bill that's why most democrats are against it.

Just because someone else or you may not know certain things, why do you assume no one else does? I'll readily admit that I don't know all of the finer details and nuances of the proposed legislation, but I have done some research for my own education. Maybe you should too so you would understand some of it for yourself.


What do you think about Obama speaking at the NAACP awards and saying black people don't have the same rights as whites.

Which half of him said it, the black or white half? In some instances I would agree. I can't comment on what he said as I have not heard it first-hand.


Glenn Beck called it right when he called him a racist.

Ooh, wow, Glenn Beck said that, it must be true then.:rolleyes:


How in the world did we as Americans vote a man in who is of the same kind as we are at war with?

What a human being, or are you alluding to the fact that his skin is a darker shade than yours? Wouldn't that be racist? Oh I get it, you are insinuating that he is of a different religion than you. Am I right? Got any proof? Didn't think so.


Obama is trying to push, push , push these bills through but when his own general who he appointed in office said he needs 40,000 more troops Obama said he needs to think this through.

As he should. Would you rather he just acquiesced to everything that comes across his desk without thinking it through? That my friend would be stupid. Surely you understand that right?


Look America is supposed to be the strongest country in the World.

According to whose standards? I bet other nations don't think that way. I sure hope we can attain and keep that standard without resorting to the use of torture and other reprehensible acts. Do you wish that we become like the terrorists which you despise?


Obama is crashing us. Lets stand up ask true questions that need to be asked and lets take America back.

We were crashing long before Obama took office. From whom are we taking America back?

If Obama can't turn things around in another 3.25 years and the masses deem he isn't right for the presidency, the people will have spoken just like they did when Obama was voted into office.

Buzzard I personally don't think you know what in the blank your talking about.

That's alright by me, I feel somewhat the same way about you from what little I have read from you. You are entitled to your opinion. I will offer opposing viewpoints when I deem them necessary.


Actually on any view on any post I have read from you in the short while I have been on this forum. I know each person is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm giving you mine.

That's great. Thanks for taking the time and effort to do this.


I think people like yourself is the reason this country has gone to crap over the last few years. Your views suck.

Again, that is your opinion. Opine away. From what little I have read of your views, I don't think yours are all that great either.


I don't care if I had a child or not I am not going to cry about paying school taxes.

So you're ok with that form socialism? I just want to be clear on that. I have yet to shed a single tear over school taxes.


I don't care if I have a car or not. I'm not going to complain about paying road taxes.

I can't recall myself complaining about paying road taxes. Would you care to refresh my memories on where I complained. Not saying I haven't, but don't recall it because it is a necessary evil.


How do you get to the store?

Hovercraft, how about yourself?:wink:

Two things are for certain. We need the roads and kids are our future.

Look, two things we can agree on.

Matter of fact we need to raise school taxes. We need more money for education.

How about we raise the taxes more on the families with children, or give tax breaks to those without while they raise these taxes for education? Better yet, why not have better policies in place. I thought that the funds from the state to state lotteries were to help with education. What happened to that?


Another thing I want to ask you. Do you believe in God?

I think you already know this answer. I'll answer again though for you in case you really don't know. No.


If not then why?

There are many ways I could answer this. I could answer it with a question to you about why you don't believe in Zeus, Horus, or any other myriad of figures which have pre-dated Christianity, and then use your answers about why I don't believe in your God.

I require more than "the Bible tells me so." If it floats your boat and is good enough for you, that's great.


How old are you?

If I want you know that, I'll tell you. You may be able to figure a rough guess by perusing posts that I have made.


Honestly do you really believe Obama is the answer?

The answer to what? Surely he is the answer to something, right?


Do you honestly think he is going to help our country?

I think he already has helped our country in some ways. I also think he or any president elected in this past election would also have a tough time playing the hand dealt to him from the past administration and ones prior to it.


He was the senator for Illinois correct. What good has he did for that state?

I could link stuff for you, but some folks would say they were from biased sites. You can probably find that information out for yourself. Off the top of my head at this late hour here I recall him negotiating for welfare reform. You can also probably find some more about some of his accomplishments in the list I posted in this thread or the other Obama thread.


He is not the answer?

Is that supposed to be a question or statement?


God is the answer. Put him first in your life and I promise you will be a better person.

That may work for you, but not for me. I am a good person. If you wish to use the Bible and the teachings of your religion to help you be a better person, go for it and enjoy your walk. I would never try to take away your religion from you, but I may offer opinions on why I don't believe when asked.

Vizion
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
How would one know if the one in custody has the information? Should everyone be tortured? Where does it end? Should we torture everyone in custody because they might know something? Should we torture speeders because they might know someone who knows someone who thought about something bad? Torture as U.S policy is wrong.

I'll answer your question and pose a "what if" to you since I answered the one you posed to me. Yes I would oppose it, but the question means little to me because I have no children. Even if you ask it substituting other family members, I still oppose torture. Why should we sink to the level of terrorists? Aren't we above that? Aren't we civilized?

What if terrorists had your child in custody, and if you tortured a suspected member of the terrorist group, they would in turn torture and then kill your child?

We could do these "what if" scenarios all day with each of us one upping the other. How would you know if information you got from torture was of any value? Again, where does it end? Have you read any information from the professional interrogators who say it has little or no value? I don't need their opinions to formulate my own, but I value their opinions over non-professionals who think it is a good thing.You are ducking the actual question. If the ONLY way to obtain the information was to torture a single man, would you do it. But you won't answer that. Get off your high horse Buzzard and stop pretending that you are somehow an enlightened one among us savages. You are not above torture. You would use torture if you were left any other option.

You overthink everything.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 01:34 PM
Buzzard you are a handful. I have to respect one thing from you though. You sure know how to fire back blank bullets.
What have I accomplished in 9 months. hmmmm. My Bible tells me not to let my right hand know what my left hand is doing. I don't have to have reward on earth. My reward is in Heaven. God knows what I accomplished and what I haven't. But to answer your question about what would I have done in my first 9 months as President? Good question. Obama is trying to take from the rich and give to the poor. That should not be that way. If you worked to get what you have then you shouldn't have your money taken away. If you believed in God then you know what to do with money but that should be your choice. This country was founded on God. Freedom of Religion. To answer your question though.
1st. I would bring prayer back into our schools. That goes for all religions. I think since we have taken God out our school systems there has been more school violence.
2nd. I would continue the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and give our military the support the needed.
3rd. I would hire an agency to go around and check out illeagal immigrants and send them back. Lets say I would hire 50,000 people across the country. I just created 50,000 jobs. Then if they take out 1,000,000 immigrants then I just created 1,000,000 more jobs. I would have two types of minimum wage. 15-17 would be 6.75 an hour and 18 on would be 9.00 an hour. That way students can still have a job and employers could afford to pay them.
4th. I would put a limit on how much a compnay can charge interest on a U.S citizen. I don't think a company should charge more than 9% interest on anything.
5th. I would fight racism. I would have more police officers trained to fight gang violence in our bigger cities.
6th. I would bring back the electric chair. Crim was lower when we would fry you behind if you killed someone.
7th. I would make sure that companies could not discriminate because of ones color.
8th. I would drop the term African American. I think that discriminates who the Colored people have fought hard to be. Americans
9th. I would ban the NAACP. They are racist. The name says it all. I am a southerner and have flown the confederate battle flag in my younger days but I would fight to have it taken down because this is The United States Of America.
10th. I would make sure I would do my best to listen to our people and their concerns.
11th. I would also pass a bill where anyone that has purchased a house and they are about to loose it that as long as they paid 50% of their monthly payment then no one couldn't take it away. Now there would be a rule to that. That would only go for people that has purchased a house before a certain date. If you can't afford a house then don't buy one. Buy a house you can afford. I would also make it where a company would have to have a reason to fire you.
12th. I would sign a bill where gas companies couldn't charge more than $2.00 a gallon for gas and no lower than $1.50.

Answers above and your quotes or questions will be below.
OK Buzzard back to you. You say the terrorist that attacked on 9-11 are all dead. Dude you need some help. They were told to do so. By a group of people. who are called al queida(sorry if I miss-spelled that).
Who says they shouldn't be punished? The terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 are dead. How are you going to punish them some more, call them names?/sarcasm

So your trying to say that you helped moved dead soldiers. what Branch of the military were you in.
Well you just lost that bet. I have helped the military in more ways than you could imagine I would surmise. Tell me this, have you ever escorted anyone coming to pick up remains of fallen heroes? Have you ever rallied up your co-workers and let other parts of your job sit while you make sure that remains of fallen heroes get the dignity and respect that they deserve after they made their final flight before being interred? Have you ever handled the remains of a fallen hero? If not, you have no room to talk to me.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 02:05 PM
Again. I will answer your quotes or questions. Answers will be below your quotes.

Please explain how our being in Iraq has anything to do with our freedom. It has to do with their freedom. I don't mean to say that what they are doing isn't honorable, but it is not for our freedom. Too many of our brave young men and women have lost their lives because of the former president.
Iraq has a huge part in it. All this tied back to Iraq. There wasn't any WMD but they were burning our flag and praising Obama Bin Laden when they struck us. remember when you seen it on t.v. All them countries are together. They planned it out. Believe it or not our country has been safer since our ex president was there. Could you imagine what Obama would have done. he would have let them do it and tell them we are sorry for our actions. That's B.S. We shouldn't apologize to no one. EVER.
You're right, that wasn't right and shouldn't be that way. How is our torturing people going to make it right? When do two wrongs make a right? Do you wish to lower yourself to their level? If everyone jumps off a bridge, are you going to do that too?

First of all our torturing is no where near as bad as theres. We didn't cut off fingers or beat them until they had blood in there mouth. If you believe that then you have watched to many Rambo movies or something. I think they should be interrogated until they can't sleep to drain all information from them. Then find out whats true and whats false but they will at least have some info to go on to make our country safe.
That's funny, I don't recall any war updates from the American front.
We as Americans are struggling to make ends meet. It's a war we don't have to fight with guns. It's a war against our rights. Your president is trying to take our rights away.
One more thing I would do is I would pay our military more money. That would actually be the very first thing I would do. Not by a dog or build a basketball court.
It's quite easy. Insert food in mouth, chew, swallow. I think you can figure out how the sleeping and breathing part go.
So your comfortable laying your head down at night with what he is doing.
You need to realize that no matter what your beliefs are that this man is tearing down everything our forefathers died for. He's taking away our freedom. He says this country needs to be changed. It doesn't. Things need to be restructured. Health Care is not the biggest problem in our country. Food, Water, Housing and Schools is a much bigger problem. We need better education to ensure that we can have better jobs. We need to provide for our country. We need to all come together and do what Martin Luther King said.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."2

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!
I believe in this country. I love everyone in it. I even love you. I will pray for you and offer you the chance to have a one on one conversation with me. I don't want to bad mouth you. I know I have done so but that's not what i want. I want you to understand that we are facing a very difficult time in this country and together we must come to defeat this problem. I hope and I pray for Obama. One thing I do like about you is your will to continue to provide your points. Even if they are wrong. Just kidding.
I have one question. You can answer this in p.m. Is there a reason you don't believe in God. Is there something that has happened a few years ago to make you not want to believe. Do me one favor read this one verse from the Bible for me and tell me what you think. Again. This was written a very long time ago.
Isaiah 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers [and] streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
What do you think of that. Just curious

Buzzard
10-12-2009, 04:03 PM
You are ducking the actual question. If the ONLY way to obtain the information was to torture a single man, would you do it. But you won't answer that.

I answered the actual question Vizion, the answer was no. I don't condone torture. You just can't comprehend what you read. Here, I'll quote myself where I answered your question, even making the answer easier for you to read in bold letters.

So what if terrorists were holding your child captive, and the only way to get the information from them was through the use of torture?
Would you oppose it then?

Here is my answer which is from the second paragraph after your question.

I'll answer your question and pose a "what if" to you since I answered the one you posed to me. Yes I would oppose it, but the question means little to me because I have no children. Even if you ask it substituting other family members, I still oppose torture.

Do you see the answer now? Make sure you have your reading glasses on if you need them. Notice how I even stated that I have no children and that if you substituted other family members in place of a kid, I still oppose torture.


Get off your high horse Buzzard and stop pretending that you are somehow an enlightened one among us savages.

When it comes to torture, it appears that I am.


You are not above torture. You would use torture if you were left any other option.

No, I wouldn't. Just because you would lower yourself to that level doesn't mean I would. Let me ask you this. How would you know that torture would be the only way to get information from this man? How would you know he had any information? How would you know that the information you got from torturing this guy was true and not made up because he just wanted the pain to stop?


You overthink everything.

At least I think. I suggest that you try it too sometimes. :Whistle:

Buzzard
10-12-2009, 05:21 PM
Buzzard you are a handful. I have to respect one thing from you though. You sure know how to fire back blank bullets.

The bullets only appear to be blank when your mind cannot comprehend what they mean.


What have I accomplished in 9 months. hmmmm. My Bible tells me not to let my right hand know what my left hand is doing. I don't have to have reward on earth. My reward is in Heaven. God knows what I accomplished and what I haven't.

Do you take and follow all of the bible literally and do everything it tells you to do?


But to answer your question about what would I have done in my first 9 months as President? Good question. Obama is trying to take from the rich and give to the poor. That should not be that way. If you worked to get what you have then you shouldn't have your money taken away.

Do you think this country could survive without taxes? I think that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes.


If you believed in God then you know what to do with money but that should be your choice.

I don't believe in God yet still know what to do with my money.


This country was founded on God. Freedom of Religion. To answer your question though.
1st. I would bring prayer back into our schools. That goes for all religions. I think since we have taken God out our school systems there has been more school violence.

I would oppose you. Would you force religion on people? Your religious book is so full of violence and death it makes my head swim.


2nd. I would continue the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and give our military the support the needed.

How would you pay for this? I'm all for giving the military support, but how would you pay for this continued war and what would be the decisive factor needed for you to end it?


3rd. I would hire an agency to go around and check out illeagal immigrants and send them back. Lets say I would hire 50,000 people across the country. I just created 50,000 jobs. Then if they take out 1,000,000 immigrants then I just created 1,000,000 more jobs. I would have two types of minimum wage. 15-17 would be 6.75 an hour and 18 on would be 9.00 an hour. That way students can still have a job and employers could afford to pay them.

First off, how would you pay for these new federal employees? How would you go about determining that someone is an illegal immigrant without violating the constitution? What would you do if you got these illegal immigrants out of the country but couldn't fill the jobs that were left?


4th. I would put a limit on how much a compnay can charge interest on a U.S citizen. I don't think a company should charge more than 9% interest on anything.

Could you be more specific. Are you referring to interest rates on credit cards or home loans or car loans or ??? I thought folks wanted the government to be smaller and less intrusive.


5th. I would fight racism. I would have more police officers trained to fight gang violence in our bigger cities.

This sounds good, but how would you pay for this without increasing taxes; or would you be making across the board tax increases to pay for these programs?


6th. I would bring back the electric chair. Crim was lower when we would fry you behind if you killed someone.

How very Christian of you. The death penalty is already in place in many states and it sure doesn't seem like it has acted as a deterrence. Can you please share where you obtained your crime information statistics showing a lower crime rate when the electric chair was in use?


7th. I would make sure that companies could not discriminate because of ones color.

Admirable, but how would you do this. There are already laws in place to prevent this aren't there? What would you do differently?


8th. I would drop the term African American. I think that discriminates who the Colored people have fought hard to be. Americans

I don't like the term African American either. I'm an American first and foremost.


9th. I would ban the NAACP. They are racist. The name says it all. I am a southerner and have flown the confederate battle flag in my younger days but I would fight to have it taken down because this is The United States Of America.

How would you ban them without violating our present laws? It is still legal to be racist. It's not a good quality, but still legal. Why shouldn't people with Confederate ancestors not be allowed to fly the Confederate flag and honor their memories by flying it? Do you just mean over state buildings?


10th. I would make sure I would do my best to listen to our people and their concerns.

Admirable.


11th. I would also pass a bill where anyone that has purchased a house and they are about to loose it that as long as they paid 50% of their monthly payment then no one couldn't take it away. Now there would be a rule to that. That would only go for people that has purchased a house before a certain date. If you can't afford a house then don't buy one. Buy a house you can afford. I would also make it where a company would have to have a reason to fire you.

So you would essentially allow consumers to violate a contract in which they engaged. Would you allow me to go into a restaurant and only pay 50% of my bill after eating it and then pay the remaining later? That's not a very pro-business policy. I think that you would destroy the housing market with a policy like that and force businesses to close rather than stay open.

In regard to the law about companies needing reasons to fire you. I like it but what reasons would be needed to fire someone? There are some states which have laws like this in effect already I believe. Wouldn't that go against the rights of a business and free enterprise to conduct the business in the best manner that they seem fit?


12th. I would sign a bill where gas companies couldn't charge more than $2.00 a gallon for gas and no lower than $1.50.

How would they be able to survive when they couldn't refine it for under $2.00 a gallon? Doesn't that go against capitalism?


Answers above and your quotes or questions will be below.
OK Buzzard back to you. You say the terrorist that attacked on 9-11 are all dead. Dude you need some help. They were told to do so. By a group of people. who are called al queida(sorry if I miss-spelled that).

The ones who were in the aircraft are all dead. Why didn't we go after the Saudi's after 9/11 when 15 of their citizens were hijackers? We didn't go after the terrorists when attacking Saddam Hussein.


So your trying to say that you helped moved dead soldiers. what Branch of the military were you in.

I wasn't in the military, I did this and other things to benefit the armed services in my civilian job. Granted it is my job, but I make additional effort to make sure this job gets done professionally. When it comes to a fallen soldier, I do everything in my power to make sure the job is done professionally and with dignity.

I'll address your other post later. I've asked a lot of questions in regards to your answers because I felt additional information is required. Just like a politician says he will do things; it doesn't mean squat unless you have the answers on how you would do them.

I've tried to not be too snarky in my replies, but some of them were fired back when you fired the first shot. I should be better than that and am trying to be. Please know that there is no animosity behind the snark. I didn't feel like using too many emoticons.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Buzzard first off I want you to know there is no hard feelings. I actually enjoy seeing anothers view. One question I will answer about the Bible is Jesus didn't go around killing people. He saved people. He loved people. Read the Bible before you have an opinion about it.

Now to the questions.
Do you take and follow all of the bible literally and do everything it tells you to do?

Yes I do. I only live by what I read and comprehend. I don't just believe something because a preacher said so.

I would oppose you. Would you force religion on people? Your religious book is so full of violence and death it makes my head swim.

The answer would be no. I would not force religion on anyone but I would teach what this country was founded on. Yes it was founded for freedom of religion. The Bible has a bunch of violence in it but so does a Stephen King movie but I still bet you watch them. If you would actually sit down and read the Bible you would understand that the Bible is about love for one another. It speaks about forgiveness. Did you know that i can't make it to heaven if I can't forgive thy own worst enemy. That sounds like violence there.

How would you pay for this? I'm all for giving the military support, but how would you pay for this continued war and what would be the decisive factor needed for you to end it?
Very good question. I think our country gives too much money to corrupt companies. I think our senators and our government make to much money. Do you know how much money our candidates spend for running in an election? Way too much and I think Obama spent far too much. Put a cap to how much they can spend.I know they raise the money for this but I'm talking about how much they actually spend.
I shouldn't have to raise taxes at all. I think instead of raising taxes we should lower them the first two years and gradually start rebuilding our economy by spending the money more wisely. Like putting money where it needs to go. I think all these trips to other countries and taking two government planes is ridiculous. I would stop government spending by working my first term for free to show that I do care about my country and I'm willing to give up my salary to put back into my country.
I also believe we need to stop making more money at the mint. We need to spend what we have and quit spending what we don't.

First off, how would you pay for these new federal employees? How would you go about determining that someone is an illegal immigrant without violating the constitution? What would you do if you got these illegal immigrants out of the country but couldn't fill the jobs that were left?
I would pay for them as described above. Better government spending. The constitution is for Americans. Your license would be your green card. It would be mandatory to have an I.D card on you at all times. If not then you would have to pay a ticket. More money. To answer your last question. If that were to happen I think I just fixed our United States Jobs. That would be a great day if I opened up that many jobs. If that were to happen then it would be mandatory for people on welfare to take these jobs. I also think everyone that's physically eligible to work in this country, should.

Could you be more specific. Are you referring to interest rates on credit cards or home loans or car loans or ??? I thought folks wanted the government to be smaller and less intrusive.

I will answer this question later. I actually have to get back to work. But don't take offense to me. I really enjoy your views and look forward to these questions.

que
10-12-2009, 07:02 PM
i would have to say buzzard wins that last round.

*goes to get more popcorn*

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 07:09 PM
I'm not here to win a popularity contest. Obama did that and he is doing a very crappy job as president.

bradwright
10-12-2009, 07:16 PM
I'm not here to win a popularity contest. Obama did that and he is doing a very crappy job as president.

in your opinion that is.:wink:

eric84
10-12-2009, 07:31 PM
Not trying to jump on the lets all gang up on Buzzard train, just posting my opinions :). Also some of these are directed for other people to, since i agree with some things from multiple people.


Do you think this country could survive without taxes? I think that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes.
- We need taxes, simple as that. But is it fair to take a higher % from people that make more? It's a hard choice, should we favor the poor, or treat everyone equal? I would like a way that can do both, but sadly no one has figured it out yet.


I don't believe in God yet still know what to do with my money.
- There are many good people that don't believe in God, let's not show disrespect for them because of that. That type of attitude doesn't draw people to God, or drives them away.


I would oppose you. Would you force religion on people? Your religious book is so full of violence and death it makes my head swim.
- Religion shouldn't be forced on anyone.


How would you pay for this? I'm all for giving the military support, but how would you pay for this continued war and what would be the decisive factor needed for you to end it?
- The government would enough money for the war if there wasn't so much corruption. I cringe to think of how ineffecient our tax dollars are spent, what % of it actually is used for what it should be. I don't think its the "where would we get the money", its more like "how do we spend our money better". Sadly most the people in the US have followed the spending habits of the government.


First off, how would you pay for these new federal employees? How would you go about determining that someone is an illegal immigrant without violating the constitution? What would you do if you got these illegal immigrants out of the country but couldn't fill the jobs that were left?

- First off I don't agree with just randomly bursting into peoples homes, or stopping any random person on the street because of skin color to see if they are legal or not. But I can't explain how fired up I get when an Illegal is arrested and NOT shipped back to their country because of politics. While I feel bad for many of the illegals, and wish it was easier to come here legally, the fact is they broke the law, and we should be enforcing it.



Could you be more specific. Are you referring to interest rates on credit cards or home loans or car loans or ??? I thought folks wanted the government to be smaller and less intrusive.
- Ah yes, the fine line between capitalism and not letting companies screw over people.


This sounds good, but how would you pay for this without increasing taxes; or would you be making across the board tax increases to pay for these programs?
- Goes back to spending our money better.


How very Christian of you. The death penalty is already in place in many states and it sure doesn't seem like it has acted as a deterrence. Can you please share where you obtained your crime information statistics showing a lower crime rate when the electric chair was in use?
- It's hard to show "statistics" because if I show pro stats, you may say they are biased, and if you show anti stats, I might question them too. Hopefully this analogy works... In todays time, its nearly illegal to use any physical discipline such as spanking for your children. I can tell you from personal experience that it works in many cases when other forms of disciplines fail. I don't know how someone can consider it abuse or torture in any way. Now some people take it to the extreme, which is wrong, but anything can be taken to the extreme. In cases today where other discipline fails(fines, jail time, community service), sometimes you need that tough discipline for acts of atrocity to keep people from doing it. Hopefully that makes sense.

Admirable, but how would you do this. There are already laws in place to prevent this aren't there? What would you do differently?
- Sadly with so much corruptness its hard to regulate this, but ideally I agree.


I don't like the term African American either. I'm an American first and foremost.
- I am very opinionated on this subject so I will try not to get into it too much. Suffice it to say, a white person has to be careful about what he says to a black person, but a black person can say whatever he wants to a white person. That is racism right there, just the opposite of what people try to make it out to be. I personally don't care if someones great grandfather was enslaved by my greatgrandfather, that wasn't me, nor him. Times are changed and there needs to be equal rights. I personally can't stand the N word, but what makes me mad is a black guy can call his buddies it all day long, and the moment a white guy says it, its racism. There might be a few guys somewhere that take it personally, but imo its just another word, and they are just using the race card. I have alot of black friends that are good people and cool, I just think the government has allowed it to be too easy to call racism if your a minority against a white person, so many people do. White people would be doing the same thing if they could get away with it, but it needs to be equal.


How would you ban them without violating our present laws? It is still legal to be racist. It's not a good quality, but still legal. Why shouldn't people with Confederate ancestors not be allowed to fly the Confederate flag and honor their memories by flying it? Do you just mean over state buildings?
- I don't agree at all with banning them, the KKK is as racist as you get and they aren't banned. Also I think if anything the people that fly confederate flags should be given the electric chair to make our country smarter, haven't they learned that they lost? :) . If you didn't catch that, it was complete sarcasm.



So you would essentially allow consumers to violate a contract in which they engaged. Would you allow me to go into a restaurant and only pay 50% of my bill after eating it and then pay the remaining later? That's not a very pro-business policy. I think that you would destroy the housing market with a policy like that and force businesses to close rather than stay open.
- If you went into a restaurant and accidentally dropped your wallet in the fireplace( i know, the chances are like .000001 %), and they required you to pay before you left, what would you do? The point is, many people went in with not very high risk investments and due to how bad the economy is, they could lose everything. While I agree those that made high risk investments shouldn't receive aid, it's hard to distinguish between the two. The banks have been given lots of federal aid, and plus, its better for them to take half the monthly payment in many circumstances, or they will end up with only a home in a bad economy, and many need money asap.


In regard to the law about companies needing reasons to fire you. I like it but what reasons would be needed to fire someone? There are some states which have laws like this in effect already I believe. Wouldn't that go against the rights of a business and free enterprise to conduct the business in the best manner that they seem fit?
- I think there should be a small limit to protect you from your job, such as if they give no reasonable reason, they have to give you 2 weeks. Just an example.


How would they be able to survive when they couldn't refine it for under $2.00 a gallon? Doesn't that go against capitalism?
- It does go against capitalism, I agree to have no caps on it. We need more alternate fuels so we don't have to rely on oil, and get screwed by price gouging. The more options the better, thus capitalism wins in the end... hopefully.


The ones who were in the aircraft are all dead. Why didn't we go after the Saudi's after 9/11 when 15 of their citizens were hijackers? We didn't go after the terrorists when attacking Saddam Hussein.
- Bad intel, but hindsight is 20/20. If your intel is telling you Saddam Hussein is a major threat to you(I don't agree he was directly involved with 9-11), then its the presidents job to protect the country. I still think its a possibility that there was WOMD, not saying there is, but we can never know 100% for sure. Think about being in the Presidents shoes, if your intel says there is, and you didn't do something about it, and americans died because of it.......... Now we can debate all day long on if Bush had personal agendas, but thats another story.


I wasn't in the military, I did this and other things to benefit the armed services in my civilian job. Granted it is my job, but I make additional effort to make sure this job gets done professionally. When it comes to a fallen soldier, I do everything in my power to make sure the job is done professionally and with dignity.
- I thank you for that.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 07:38 PM
To finish answering your questions Buzzard.
Could you be more specific. Are you referring to interest rates on credit cards or home loans or car loans or ??? I thought folks wanted the government to be smaller and less intrusive.
I think some of our problems we are facing is high interest rates. As how I would keep them around 9% would have to be something I worked on. I couldn't just figure it out over night. So I will give you this one for the time being.

Do you think this country could survive without taxes? I think that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes.
Nope. We need taxes and everyone should have to pay the same taxes.

Admirable, but how would you do this. There are already laws in place to prevent this aren't there? What would you do differently?
I would enforce them on everyone. I have seen places in the south where if a white person got a job the blacks would cry racism and vise versa. When you look at an application and you see that it says African American. They can throw the application away without ever knowing who that person is. That's why I say we drop that term and start treating each other as equals.

How very Christian of you. The death penalty is already in place in many states and it sure doesn't seem like it has acted as a deterrence. Can you please share where you obtained your crime information statistics showing a lower crime rate when the electric chair was in use?
Would you agree that there has been more violence in the last 15 years. The reason is because of our punishment laws. When I was going to school we could be whipped by our principal. Now the principal would go to jail. That's a start to our crime right there. Bring back corporal punishment.

How would you ban them without violating our present laws? It is still legal to be racist. It's not a good quality, but still legal. Why shouldn't people with Confederate ancestors not be allowed to fly the Confederate flag and honor their memories by flying it? Do you just mean over state buildings?
Why should we honor their memories. My God. We are Americans. We should only fly our American Flag. GO to Iran and fly an American flag and see what happens. I don't like the fact that we are allowed to fly other flags of other countries. This is the United States of America. Love this place.

So you would essentially allow consumers to violate a contract in which they engaged. Would you allow me to go into a restaurant and only pay 50% of my bill after eating it and then pay the remaining later? That's not a very pro-business policy. I think that you would destroy the housing market with a policy like that and force businesses to close rather than stay open.

In regard to the law about companies needing reasons to fire you. I like it but what reasons would be needed to fire someone? There are some states which have laws like this in effect already I believe. Wouldn't that go against the rights of a business and free enterprise to conduct the business in the best manner that they seem fit?

No not at all. But if they were at least making half of the payment then I wouldn't take their house away. Your right to a certain extent on the rights of business but My job would be to protect our people of the United States. I wouldn't tell them hey you only have to pay half of your payment but if they had to cut down on a bill in order to pay their other bills or feed their kids then I would think it would all pan out in the end.

How would they be able to survive when they couldn't refine it for under $2.00 a gallon? Doesn't that go against capitalism?
You and me both know that the price of oil per barrel is no where near high enough to charge $4.00 or $5.00 a gallon. That hurt our country. It lost jobs and ripped up families.

The ones who were in the aircraft are all dead. Why didn't we go after the Saudi's after 9/11 when 15 of their citizens were hijackers? We didn't go after the terrorists when attacking Saddam Hussein.
My personal opinion on the whole war thing is I would have went after Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and made Saudi Arabia go after their terrorist groups or suffer the consequences. I would have also nuked them. yes I would have went there. I think that region is planning an all out attack on our country and I believe a few other countries are behind it.

que
10-12-2009, 07:55 PM
I'm not here to win a popularity contest.

i didn't say buzzard won the popularity contest, i was saying he won that round of the debate. you are here to win a debate, no? surely you aren't debating him with the intention to lose.

donaldbreland
10-12-2009, 08:17 PM
Again. This all started when he said what would I do different in my first 9 months. I am not ever going to be President but these are some of the things I would want in America. Plus I don't see how he won anything. He asked a question and I answered it. He is not saying anything as to how he would fix a problem. If he did that then that would be debating.

rearnakedchoke
10-13-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm not here to win a popularity contest. Obama did that and he is doing a very crappy job as president.

So would you have rather him won via poor ballot management/handling whatever it was when GWB won his first election? I am not saying that that is what gave him the election, but could you imagine what storm that woulda kicked up had obama's presidency come down to one state? LOL .. it would still be in the courts ... instead, he won in a landslide because he had the better campaign .. ain't that funny ...

eric84
10-13-2009, 09:38 PM
So would you have rather him won via poor ballot management/handling whatever it was when GWB won his first election? I am not saying that that is what gave him the election, but could you imagine what storm that woulda kicked up had obama's presidency come down to one state? LOL .. it would still be in the courts ... instead, he won in a landslide because he had the better campaign .. ain't that funny ...

This is in no way bashing you, but it is said that he "won in a landslide because he had the better campaign". It is funny in a sad way, today it isn't about who the better president is, it's about who looks better, or says the right things. I'm not a mccain fan either, I'm just saying that's how it is, regardless of parties.

rearnakedchoke
10-13-2009, 11:18 PM
This is in no way bashing you, but it is said that he "won in a landslide because he had the better campaign". It is funny in a sad way, today it isn't about who the better president is, it's about who looks better, or says the right things. I'm not a mccain fan either, I'm just saying that's how it is, regardless of parties.

no offense taken ... but what i was trying to point out is that people complain about obama winning a popularity contest ... but really, isn't that what it is? who gets more votes wins right ... is it right that he may have been a fad to some voters? sure, but i still think he had a better platform than mccains ... but what i was trying to point out was that people complain about him and he was voted in "without a shadow of a doubt" were dems have a very good case in saying that bush was voted in that way in his first election

que
10-14-2009, 05:53 AM
This all started when he said what would I do different in my first 9 months.

well then let me just say that thank God you are not president and never will be. from your list of things you would change as president i can already tell you would make this the most bigoted, isolated, hated and self hated country in the world. (although we are already on a steady track towards that right now)

donaldbreland
10-14-2009, 06:53 PM
Tell you what que. If that's what you think then you are entitled to your own opinion. I don't see how you could say if I were president then our country would be hated. This country needs to stand back up and be what it use to be without all the. Racism

donaldbreland
10-14-2009, 07:01 PM
I think health care is not the worst problem we are facing right now in our country. I think our main problems are too much government spending and immigration. We fix them and we are on a start to a better economy.
I also believe that a presidential candidate should have at least 8 to 12 years minimum experience before he is allowed to run our country.

atomdanger
10-14-2009, 11:31 PM
You gotta be kidding me. You actually condone most of his actions? Our President is pro-big government, pro-socialism, and that makes him anti-American.

He is directly insulting our Allies, and you tell me to learn about culture while supporting the fact that he insulted the Queen of England?! Just like the press, you're painting it one way while twisting it the other way just to make the guy look good.

Our allies? Who? Jews?
Jews aren't my allies, are they yours?

When was the last time Israel did something for us?
Or England?
Honestly.....

Rev
10-15-2009, 12:02 AM
Man, we sure have alot of people wanting other countries to like us. I think America needs a pres. who is going to be willing to make some very unpopular descisions for the good of the country. And dont ask for examples because that would put me in with you all and your little tiff you have going.

But before I go I will give my opinion on the fella that a few of you seem to worship. I wish Obama wanted to be our commander in chief as bad as he wanted to be a "pop-culture" icon. Look at the begining of Regan's admin, even the people who voted for him didnt like him at first but now and by the time he was finished, he was a hero.

atomdanger
10-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Man, we sure have alot of people wanting other countries to like us. I think America needs a pres. who is going to be willing to make some very unpopular descisions for the good of the country. And dont ask for examples because that would put me in with you all and your little tiff you have going.

But before I go I will give my opinion on the fella that a few of you seem to worship. I wish Obama wanted to be our commander in chief as bad as he wanted to be a "pop-culture" icon. Look at the begining of Regan's admin, even the people who voted for him didnt like him at first but now and by the time he was finished, he was a hero.


Well, without the world, our economy crashes and we aren't us anymore.
So, we cannot live without the world.
America thrives on the world market, we need other countries to like us.

This isn't the wild west, this isn't a playground.
The tough kid certainly isn't the one winning in the end.
We need to be able to defend ourselves yes,
we need to stop telling others how to run their own countries.

Tyburn
10-15-2009, 10:57 PM
27 Escaped Assassination.

:ninja: many of us thought it would just be a matter of time...but noone has yet tried to kill him...except for before he became President whilst he was still a candidate I seem to recall

I'm pissed at him over Starwars....his calling off the extention has led to certain governments being thrown to the wolves of their people...when they standed with America against an anti-american sentiment...and now have been left high and dry, right next to Russia

Watch as some of their Administrations get toppled in the next ellections :laugh:

CAVEMAN
10-20-2009, 03:51 PM
That may work for you, but not for me. I am a good person. If you wish to use the Bible and the teachings of your religion to help you be a better person, go for it and enjoy your walk. I would never try to take away your religion from you, but I may offer opinions on why I don't believe when asked.

Just out of curiousity, by what standards would you say you are good?