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atomdanger
02-08-2009, 08:56 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html

Interesting article about A rod testing positive in 2003,
of course the year he broke a home run record and won MVP.

Anyhow, the article mentions that 104 players tested positive in 2003.
WOW.

Imagine if 104 MMA fighters tested positive in major company,
imagine the scrutiny mma would have to deal with.

Tyburn
02-08-2009, 09:27 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html

Interesting article about A rod testing positive in 2003,
of course the year he broke a home run record and won MVP.

Anyhow, the article mentions that 104 players tested positive in 2003.
WOW.

Imagine if 104 MMA fighters tested positive in major company,
imagine the scrutiny mma would have to deal with.
when put like that.

Its a MAJOR affiar if ONE tests positive...and I think thats absolutely right. there is no room in this sport for cheaters. If you cant win, lose with some dignity...dont cheat and get a win, or hope that cheating will help you win and then lose.

Martial arts and combat sports carry something that other sports dont. The only thing that protects other sports is usually the integrity of the participents and the strictness of the controlling insitutions. In Martial Arts, anyone who has been properly trained will have a sense of respect, honnor and morals plugged into them AS PART OF their training. All Ancient Arts descend primarily from some kind of Philo-deism. Now that may not be correct, or noticed in this post-modern world...but its a fact.

Fighters should be displaying these qualities and cheating obviously undermines that...you would hope that some of the training thats taught to them would limit the amount of smack they produce, and the likelihood that they would cheat with low blows, illegal moves, or banned substances. Their ancient Masters would be turning in their graves, with the shame and disgrace that some Fighters have bought on themselves, their teams, and their arts with some of the poor performances and antics that some MMA fighters have employed in the last few years.

Regardless of the fact other sports let their participents cheat as a rule of thumb, MMA fans should be calling on and expecting nothing less then absolute zero tollerance on the issue...sadly I fear that ahlf the fans dont understand what a martial art is, and half the fighters arent being train properly in the artforms...I fear in ten years from now we COULD be baseball :(

cubsfan47
02-08-2009, 02:14 PM
I have followed baseball for a long time. My grandfather taught me the love of the game. He was a telegrapher for Western Union, and when I went to visit him he took me to the games in Milwaukee; he had to "work" sending out the play by play on the wire service. I got to sit in the booth.:cool:

Anyway, I still enjoy the game despite the aftermath of the steroid issue. Based on what we know now, while many did use PEDs, the vast majority have never done so. Given the testing in place now, the use of PEDS, while still possible is very difficult.

There is also the stigma; I collect sports memorabilia. I have burned some jerseys and so have some of my friends. Then there is the issue of the Baseball Hall Of Fame. How will these stigmatized players explain this to their children and grandchildren? This is all very sad. Had MLB instituted the testing program much sooner most of this could have been avoided. Now there is going to be book after book about this. :cry:

Of course baseball is not alone; there were earlier scandals involving drug use in the NFL and NBA. Then there's the whole blood doping scandal from the various international sports competitions. Oh yeah, the Tour De France?

Given the testing procedures now in place, I don't think the use of PEDs will get to be the serious problem it has been in other sports. It won't be totally absent given that we are dealing with humans.

(Gee I have rattled on about like Tyburn)

I have some jersey cases in my den that used to contain baseball jerseys. Lots of other baseball stuff too. My jersey cases will now contain an autographed shirt of Matt's, another one autographed by Phillipe Nover, and also there will be Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson and other MMA stuff.

The university where I work has a non-scholarship athletic program. I am going to their baseball games. It's up close and personal, I know the student athletes personally, I have met their parents and it is just very enjoyable.

Oh yeah, I will still watch an occasional Cubs game in the vain hope that..... well you know.:ashamed:

Instead of spending the money on the Direct TV baseball package I will be watching MMA Pay Per Views. It's great to watch men who you can respect for both what they do and who they are.

Sorry for the rant, this just touched a nerve.

Spiritwalker
02-08-2009, 02:20 PM
Regardless of the fact other sports let their participents cheat as a rule of thumb, MMA fans should be calling on and expecting nothing less then absolute zero tollerance on the issue...sadly I fear that ahlf the fans dont understand what a martial art is, and half the fighters arent being train properly in the artforms...I fear in ten years from now we COULD be baseball :(

Well no offense to those that train "MMA". Something I have had to come to terms with.. training in MMA is not the same as training in a traditional martial art.

But I don't feel that "banned substances" is rampant in MMA. Even though this is individual competition, there often seem to be more of a "team atmosphere" than in baseball and football. And a team is no good when it focuses on one individual.

Sure there are those that feel that they needs something extra (banned stuff).. Bonner, Silva, Franca, Gracie (imo Sherk got screwed)...But you also have Nick and Melivn who just used drugs.. If you look at all of those fighters... and others..you will see a lot of self centered-ness..

paying a baseball player 20 mil a year, to play a game.. a football player 60 mil. Yet they are flown everywhere.. medical care, team doctors, staff upon staff.. millions of dollars to be made in sponsors...

yet when the big game is won.. rarely do you hear about the team that brought them there, it's always "I".. you never hear about "thanks Nike for support.."..

But when a fighter.. wins the big game..what's the firstthing the fighter really has to say... "I wanna thank..."

To many "team sports" competitors think that the revolves around them... no concept of team.. it's all individual achievement, and that's where the huge need for steroids comes from... IMO


It isn't the fault of the users.. it's a fault in the athlete. IMO

cubsfan47
02-08-2009, 03:43 PM
Wow spiritwalker, an incredible post, especially the ending.

I am glad I found a sport where, as I have written before, you can respect people for both who they are as well as what they do.

Tyburn
02-08-2009, 03:49 PM
Well no offense to those that train "MMA". Something I have had to come to terms with.. training in MMA is not the same as training in a traditional martial art.


Thats because I suspect they dont bother teaching the FULL art to anyone. They could, there is no reason why they shouldnt. I guess they just dont see it important to competition. Actually I believe that it enhances competition by building up the athlete.

If those who taught MMA bothered to teach the FULL disciplines of all the arts they incorperate we wouldnt have half this issue. I still find it really strange when I talk to someone whose good enough to fight on TV...and doesnt realize that each Art comes with its own form of morals, much less wants to admit historically where those Morals come from (they arent all Christian, but they are all religious in someway)

Tyburn
02-08-2009, 03:54 PM
(Gee I have rattled on about like Tyburn)

.
:ashamed: theres nowt wrong with that :w00t:

rockdawg21
02-08-2009, 04:32 PM
It's ridiculous. A few years ago, they went on strike complaining they weren't making enough money. So now they're buying roids and HGH. Turns out, they went on strike so they could afford to buy roids and HGH.

I hope MLB goes down, it's a boring sport anyways.

Jason 16
02-08-2009, 06:15 PM
Well no offense to those that train "MMA". Something I have had to come to terms with.. training in MMA is not the same as training in a traditional martial art.

But I don't feel that "banned substances" is rampant in MMA. Even though this is individual competition, there often seem to be more of a "team atmosphere" than in baseball and football. And a team is no good when it focuses on one individual.

Sure there are those that feel that they needs something extra (banned stuff).. Bonner, Silva, Franca, Gracie (imo Sherk got screwed)...But you also have Nick and Melivn who just used drugs.. If you look at all of those fighters... and others..you will see a lot of self centered-ness..

paying a baseball player 20 mil a year, to play a game.. a football player 60 mil. Yet they are flown everywhere.. medical care, team doctors, staff upon staff.. millions of dollars to be made in sponsors...

yet when the big game is won.. rarely do you hear about the team that brought them there, it's always "I".. you never hear about "thanks Nike for support.."..

But when a fighter.. wins the big game..what's the firstthing the fighter really has to say... "I wanna thank..."

To many "team sports" competitors think that the revolves around them... no concept of team.. it's all individual achievement, and that's where the huge need for steroids comes from... IMO


It isn't the fault of the users.. it's a fault in the athlete. IMO

great post :happy0159: :party0019:

Jason 16
02-08-2009, 06:18 PM
It's ridiculous. A few years ago, they went on strike complaining they weren't making enough money. So now they're buying roids and HGH. Turns out, they went on strike so they could afford to buy roids and HGH.

I hope MLB goes down, it's a boring sport anyways.

QFT I just never got into MLB and I just dont get why there payed so dam much

J.B.
02-08-2009, 06:23 PM
I hope MLB goes down, it's a boring sport anyways.

Sorry, but thats just stupid.

J.B.
02-08-2009, 06:49 PM
Well no offense to those that train "MMA". Something I have had to come to terms with.. training in MMA is not the same as training in a traditional martial art.

But I don't feel that "banned substances" is rampant in MMA. Even though this is individual competition, there often seem to be more of a "team atmosphere" than in baseball and football. And a team is no good when it focuses on one individual.

Sure there are those that feel that they needs something extra (banned stuff).. Bonner, Silva, Franca, Gracie (imo Sherk got screwed)...But you also have Nick and Melivn who just used drugs.. If you look at all of those fighters... and others..you will see a lot of self centered-ness..

paying a baseball player 20 mil a year, to play a game.. a football player 60 mil. Yet they are flown everywhere.. medical care, team doctors, staff upon staff.. millions of dollars to be made in sponsors...

yet when the big game is won.. rarely do you hear about the team that brought them there, it's always "I".. you never hear about "thanks Nike for support.."..

But when a fighter.. wins the big game..what's the firstthing the fighter really has to say... "I wanna thank..."

To many "team sports" competitors think that the revolves around them... no concept of team.. it's all individual achievement, and that's where the huge need for steroids comes from... IMO


It isn't the fault of the users.. it's a fault in the athlete. IMO

That is a ridiculous sweeping generalization IMO, and it shouldn't make a whole lot of sense to anybody who actually follows sports. It's like you are just trying to talk up fighters and put down other athletes. Not a whole lot of substance there.

Baseball has had it's problems, but lets not forget about all the problems the fight game has had. Fighters are grossly underpaid in terms of what the UFC is raking in profits, and there IS problems with banned substances or we would not hear about people getting busted.

Spiritwalker
02-08-2009, 11:20 PM
QFT I just never got into MLB and I just dont get why there payed so dam much


When I was a kid.. I could quaote fact and numbers all day long..

But when we went without a world series... I said "F" them.. and haven't looked back.

Spiritwalker
02-08-2009, 11:49 PM
That is a ridiculous sweeping generalization IMO, and it shouldn't make a whole lot of sense to anybody who actually follows sports. It's like you are just trying to talk up fighters and put down other athletes. Not a whole lot of substance there.

Please be careful when you elude that I don't follow my sports.. saying I don't make sense on this should really make you think where your opinions are rooted.. And should you choose to read what I posted.. you would see I am only putting down people that don't really deserve to be "up".

And while I am not a fan of Nate, Nick and Melive.. at least they haven't been caught with a loaded AK..

Former AZ Cardinal arrested in Phoenix cocaine ring bust -http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story/Former-AZ-Cardinal-arrested-in-Phoenix-cocaine/eCeX-6tBn0qmKRXCfbyDYQ.cspx

Try this.. Google .. nfl players arrested
Then try nba players arrested
Then try MMA Fighters arrested

Then drill through your results and compare drug related and violent related charges.. let me know what you find...

Actually don't.. I already know..

1 MMA guy/gal in 37 nfl, and 42 NBA...

Funny that..



Just what is the "ridiculous sweeping generalization"?

That MMA is rampant with HGH and the like? Or that baseball and football and basketball are SEVERALLY OVER PAID.. and are EXTREMELY self centered on the whole?


Pay has nothing to do with MMA problems with fighters.. that is a problem with the companies they fight for.. not the morally or ethically piss poor choices that that many make.

That's why I am a HUGE fan of the fighters I root for.. very rarely do you hear about crap from them.

When was the last time you heard a pro quarter back say "thanks" to "nike", when was the last time you heard a center say... "this game is dedicated to ..."...
Or thanks to my coaches...

Jeff Monson gets busted for graffiti, yet Kobe gets smacked down for rape at worst.. and having an affair at best?




Baseball has had it's problems, but lets not forget about all the problems the fight game has had. Fighters are grossly underpaid in terms of what the UFC is raking in profits, and there IS problems with banned substances or we would not hear about people getting busted.


There are over 100 UFC fighters.. over 100 (pretty sure) WEC fighters..

how many of those have tested positive? And again.. how many since tested become a "pop quiz" and before and after fights?

So make fires where you want about banned stuff being rampant.. I sure don't see it. But maybe we should be concentrating on where is truely IS rampant.. NFL, MLBA and such..

If you want to talk about money for fighters.. I can say that ALL fighters.. (not just UFC) should be paid more.. but consider these figures... Defiantly more than Chuck could make running a dojo.. trust me.. I know.


MAX 25 or 5 minute fights.. not counting training camps.. Granted.. these guys have to pay for training, but no one twists their arms..


The lowest paid amount $2,000 x 15 = 133.00 a minute.. not bad change there..

Where as Andre earned 60,000 a minute for a WHOLE 25 minute fight...

Should MMA fighters earn more? Sure.. but with sponsors paying for what amounts to training.. and we are talking about 25 minutes max work... they aren't doing too bad..



MAIN EVENT FIGHTERS

– Fedor Emelianenko $300,000 (no win bonus) def. Andre Arlovski $1,500,000 (win bonus would have been $250,000) -


MAIN CARD FIGHTERS

– Josh Barnett $500,000 (no win bonus) def. Gilbert Yvel $30,000 (win bonus would have been $9,300)

– Vitor Belfort $200,000 (includes $80,000 win bonus) def. Matt Lindland $225,000 (win bonus would have been $75,000)

– Renato "Babalu" Sobral $90,000 (includes $30,000 win bonus) def. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou $50,000 (win bonus would have been $50,000)

– Paul Buentello $90,000 (includes $20,000 win bonus) def. Kiril Sidelnikov $10,000 (win bonus would have been $25,000)

– Dan Lauzon $12,000 (no win bonus) def. Bobby Green $4,000 (win bonus would have been $4,000)

– Jay Hieron $45,000 (includes $25,000 win bonus) def. Jason High $10,000 (win bonus would have been $5,000)


PRELIMINARY CARD FIGHTERS

– Antonio Rogerio Nogueira $150,000 (includes $30,000 win bonus) def. Vladimir Matyushenko $50,000 (win bonus would have been $30,000)

– L.C. Davis $14,000 (includes $7,000 win bonus) def. Bao Quach $7,000 (win bonus would have been $6,000)

– Albert Rios $6,000 (includes $3,000 win bonus) def. Antonio Duarte $3,000 (win bonus would have been $2,000)

– Brett Cooper $10,000 (includes $5,000 win bonus) def. Patrick Speight $2,000 (win bonus would have been $3,000)

rockdawg21
02-09-2009, 12:19 AM
Sorry, but thats just stupid.
And why's that? There's too much waiting involved. Even golf has more action on television than a baseball game.

However, it's fun to go to the games because of all the side-activities :)

Spiritwalker
02-09-2009, 01:04 AM
And why's that? There's too much waiting involved. Even golf has more action on television than a baseball game.

However, it's fun to go to the games because of all the side-activities :)


I don't think that baseball is "boring'.. but I have more fun watching a bunch or 9 year olds play and have fun rather than pros..

J.B.
02-09-2009, 01:40 AM
Rockdawg, it's stupid because you are sitting there wishing that the MLB will fail just because you don't like it. It's still one of the biggest sports in the country, and it always will be, so lots of people disagree with you.

Spirit, your logic is just flawed, and your other post DOES NOT make sense. "It isn't the fault of the users, it's a fault in the athlete"?! WTF? :huh:

Seriously, while you were busy going on a tirade about Cardinals players getting arrested and Kobe Bryant being a rapist, you seem to forget about people like Rampage Jackson going on a literal rampage, and people like Justin Levens murdering his girlfriend then killing himself. I could go on. MMA has had it's problems, besides just grossly underpaying their fighters. We have seen fixed fights, questionable title-shots, and constant accusations of cheating.

You act like you are sitting on some high horse by saying that guys in the NBA, MLB, and NFL are overpaid, when in reality you are not taking into account WHY those players are paid what they are. Those franchises make a LOT of money, and their players are the reason for that. Unlike in the UFC, the biggest stars are compensated FAIRLY and HANDSOMELY for their role in putting asses in the seats. The rest of the guys get paid good because they have unions that see to it. That is not wrong, that is FAIR. Actually, I could even make an argument that players in the NFL are getting shafted by the league because the NFL refuses to open it's books and show what they are really making in profit.

In one breath you reluctantly try to bring yourself to agree with me by saying you think all fighters should get paid more, but that you think they are doing okay because sponsors take care of them. :laugh: So which is it? Are they making enough money or not?

Bottom line is the UFC underpays ALL their fighters, and the ones at the bottom of the totem poll are hardly raking in the big bucks from sponsorship deals. Then on top of it, the UFC pays them peanuts to come in and get knocked out. Yeah, that's really honorable busiiness practices. Send a guy out to get KO'd in front of millions of people for 10 grand, while some 2nd stringer in the NBA is getting league minimum and STILL making more money than the highest paid fighter on any UFC card.

As for banned substances being rampant in MMA, IT IS, deal with it. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I believe it was only a year or two ago where I read that Matt Hughes himself said there is a LOT of people doing it. Somebody please correct me on that if I am wrong. It is a problem in ALL sports right now, not just ONE.

Your statistics on the number of people arrested is just funny. Seriously, did you forget how many MORE players are in those leagues? Really? Did all logic simply escape you when typing that? :laugh:

But the ONE thing you said that shows me you don't know what you are talking about is THIS...

When was the last time you heard a pro quarter back say "thanks" to "nike", when was the last time you heard a center say... "this game is dedicated to ..."...
Or thanks to my coaches...

:rolleyes:

Next time maybe you should actually watch football before you comment on it...

Spiritwalker
02-09-2009, 02:46 AM
Rockdawg

Spirit, your logic is just flawed, and your other post DOES NOT make sense. "It isn't the fault of the users, it's a fault in the athlete"?! WTF? :huh:

Read it again.. think about it.. maybe read it slowly...



Seriously, while you were busy going on a tirade about Cardinals players getting arrested and Kobe Bryant being a rapist, you seem to forget about people like Rampage Jackson going on a literal rampage, and people like Justin Levens murdering his girlfriend then killing himself. I could go on. MMA has had it's problems, besides just grossly underpaying their fighters. We have seen fixed fights, questionable title-shots, and constant accusations of cheating.


Pleas do go on.. please.. Justin and 'Page... reported mental issues..Bring some more... I can give you prolly 15 for every one....


and we aren't talking about pay.. we are talking about the individual fighters.... and again.. if you look at the numbers... compare the violent crimes of "major sports" to MMA.. look at drug use.. I am not talking about the fewer MMA fighters compared to other athletes, do a ratio.. "Pro Sports" do not foster a team atmosphere any more.. it's about the individual.. where as MMA is about the individual fighter.. and that fighter (if they are worth anything) KNOWS that they are squat without their team...

MMA has no problem paying it's fighters.. MMA is the sport. they don't write the checks... so your post has no substance either.. at least not one that I can see.


You act like you are sitting on some high horse by saying that guys in the NBA, MLB, and NFL are overpaid, when in reality you are not taking into account WHY those players are paid what they are. Those franchises make a LOT of money,

Yep. but none of mine.. when I can take me and my family to see a AAA Charlotte Knights game for under $50 (including parking) and get a free fireworks show.. there is no way I will pay Field Level $350 per seat per Game for a yankee game.. and players that are trying harder.. and teams that are working harder..


Unlike in the UFC, the biggest stars are compensated FAIRLY and HANDSOMELY for their role in putting asses in the seats. The rest of the guys get paid good because they have unions that see to it. That is not wrong, that is FAIR. Actually, I could even make an argument that players in the NFL are getting shafted by the league because the NFL refuses to open it's books and show what they are really making in profit.

When a fighter is getting 3 grand for a fight.. sure they should get more.

In one breath you reluctantly try to bring yourself to agree with me by saying you think all fighters should get paid more,

I reluctantly do nothing.


but that you think they are doing okay because sponsors take care of them. :laugh: So which is it? Are they making enough money or not?


Sponsor money and per fight/contract money are different things..

Bottom line is the UFC underpays ALL their fighters,

Incorrect.

and the ones at the bottom of the totem poll are hardly raking in the big bucks from sponsorship deals.

again.. two different checks. But I do feel that the prelim-fighters should get more.. and even some of the top talent also.. but you do know that no one is forced to fight for the UFC.. but that is a circular argument..


Then on top of it, the UFC pays them peanuts to come in and get knocked out. Yeah, that's really honorable busiiness practices.

depends on who you talk to.. and just about every fighter in the world want to fight in the UFC.. so I guess it "ain't all that'



Send a guy out to get KO'd in front of millions of people for 10 grand,

10 grand for 15 minutes work??? insurance once you hit the arena til you leave? I would do it.. But I would sure like more.. but what exactly is your problem.. by your statement.. it's ok to get KO'ed ikn front of 10 people for 10 grand???

while some 2nd stringer in the NBA is getting league minimum and STILL making more money than the highest paid fighter on any UFC card.

So I say don't pay the NBA guys so much.. that way your famous franchises don't make as much.. and instead of over 100 bucks for me and my wife to GET IN THE DOOR to watch the Panthers play.. (no parking, no food), they can lower ticket prices... hmmmmm

As for banned substances being rampant in MMA, IT IS, deal with it. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I believe it was only a year or two ago where I read that Matt Hughes himself said there is a LOT of people doing it.

No to disagree with Matt.. but if it was.. were are all the people getting busted for it?


Somebody please correct me on that if I am wrong. It is a problem in ALL sports right now, not just ONE.

ok. Your wrong.

Your statistics on the number of people arrested is just funny. Seriously, did you forget how many MORE players are in those leagues? Really? Did all logic simply escape you when typing that? :laugh:

No it didn't. Andthose numbers are really much higher than that. It was basic math. I really thought that most people would see the ratio.. and understand the higher math behind my statement..

Sorry you didn't understand.



But the ONE thing you said that shows me you don't know what you are talking about is THIS...


Quote:
When was the last time you heard a pro quarter back say "thanks" to "nike", when was the last time you heard a center say... "this game is dedicated to ..."...
Or thanks to my coaches...


:rolleyes:

Next time maybe you should actually watch football before you comment on it...


I do... I watched the Cards get smacked down... ah well...

As for some player thanking his coach.. or his sponsor.. I guess I could have blinked...

J.B.
02-09-2009, 05:09 AM
Read it again.. think about it.. maybe read it slowly...

No need to re-read it. It was poor use of grammar the first time I read it.



Pleas do go on.. please.. Justin and 'Page... reported mental issues..Bring some more... I can give you prolly 15 for every one....

So them "reporting" mental issues excuses the actions? Or are you just trying to downplay it because they are fighters?

and we aren't talking about pay.. we are talking about the individual fighters.... and again.. if you look at the numbers... compare the violent crimes of "major sports" to MMA.. look at drug use.. I am not talking about the fewer MMA fighters compared to other athletes, do a ratio.. "Pro Sports" do not foster a team atmosphere any more.. it's about the individual.. where as MMA is about the individual fighter.. and that fighter (if they are worth anything) KNOWS that they are squat without their team...

You are WRONG. Plenty of players in all the leagues have great sportsmanship, and are great team players, but you are too busy being a hater to see that. Of course there are bad seeds, but that comes with any LARGE group of people, even in MMA. Do you just forget about all the less than sportsmalike conduct we see from a lot of fighters all the time?

As for comparing "violent crimes" and "drug use", you have NO way of FAIRLY gauging that. If you are ONLY comparing fighters in the UFC to all of the players in the NFL, NBA, and MLB then you need to realize how many more active players there are in those leagues then there are active fighters in the UFC. More people equals more problems, period.

I also doubt you truly have any real knowledge of every single player and fighters personal and criminal histories to say one group is worse than another. You should not condemn an entire sport or group of sports because of the actions of a few.

MMA has no problem paying it's fighters.. MMA is the sport. they don't write the checks... so your post has no substance either.. at least not one that I can see.

The UFC represents pro MMA, you are not dumb, you know what I meant. Besides, it's not like the UFC is the only company who has been underpaying it's fighters.

Yep. but none of mine.. when I can take me and my family to see a AAA Charlotte Knights game for under $50 (including parking) and get a free fireworks show.. there is no way I will pay Field Level $350 per seat per Game for a yankee game.. and players that are trying harder.. and teams that are working harder..

That is FINE, don't give them your money. Nobody cares. People are still buying tickets and going to games. Sure players in the minors are trying hard, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE IN THE PROS. However just because you don't want to pay what it costs for a Yankee game does not mean that teams in the pros are not playing hard too. On that note, what about the cost of tickets to a UFC event? LOL!

When a fighter is getting 3 grand for a fight.. sure they should get more.

Umm, yeah

I reluctantly do nothing.

Whatever


Sponsor money and per fight/contract money are different things..

Umm yeah... but SO WHAT? The UFC should not be basing it's payscale around "perceived" dollar amounts that fighters may or may not be getting from potential sponsors.

Incorrect.

No, it's not incorrect. The biggest fighters are not making the numbers they should be on the main events and especially the super-fights. Sure, they pay out bonuses and untold amounts to the biggest guys, but the PPV numbers alone are a dead giveaway that the reported fighter purses are grossly disproportionate to the UFC's profit margin.

again.. two different checks. But I do feel that the prelim-fighters should get more.. and even some of the top talent also.. but you do know that no one is forced to fight for the UFC.. but that is a circular argument..

They are not forced to, but if they wannna be a pro fighter in MMA the UFC is the top of the heap.


depends on who you talk to.. and just about every fighter in the world want to fight in the UFC.. so I guess it "ain't all that'

I never said the UFC was not the top promotion. I just said they are grossly underpaying their fighters.

10 grand for 15 minutes work??? insurance once you hit the arena til you leave? I would do it.. But I would sure like more.. but what exactly is your problem.. by your statement.. it's ok to get KO'ed ikn front of 10 people for 10 grand???

10 grand to possibly be killed or seriously injured? You just don't get it. Just because 10 grand seems like a lot of money to you does not mean it's fair compensation for the what you are providing a multi-million dollar company.

I never said it would be okay in front of 10 people, but doing it in front of millions is much more embarrassing. What are you smoking?

So I say don't pay the NBA guys so much.. that way your famous franchises don't make as much.. and instead of over 100 bucks for me and my wife to GET IN THE DOOR to watch the Panthers play.. (no parking, no food), they can lower ticket prices... hmmmmm

Sorry, but I say too bad for you. If you cannot afford 100 bucks, then don't go. UFC ticket prices are MUCH worse than 100 bucks if you wanna get on the floor. Just because you don't like the ticket prices does not mean they should lower them when they are still selling out stadiums, that is simple supply and demand. There is also more too it than just ticket prices. There is merchandising and other functions that generate revenue for those teams, and players are entitled to chunks of those profits as well. It's the basics of any industry. The workers deserve to be fairly compensated for their contribution to the success of a business.


No to disagree with Matt.. but if it was.. were are all the people getting busted for it?

Dude, people get busted all the time, quit friggin downplaying it just to hate on other sports, thats really lame. Lest you forget that there are more promotions than just the UFC and it's no secret that roids are all over gyms.

ok. Your wrong.

You fail. I was referring to the comment about what Matt had said. Unless you can prove that wrong, just STFU.

It is a problem in all sports, not just one, so again, you fail.

No it didn't. Andthose numbers are really much higher than that. It was basic math. I really thought that most people would see the ratio.. and understand the higher math behind my statement..

Sorry you didn't understand.

Umm, yeah I get your ratio, but it is ridiculous and made up. You don't have factual information that backs up that ratio so basically you are just talking out of your rear end. The only link you posted, which was not even linked, was about a Cardinals player in a lame attempt to take a shot at me because I am challenging your narrow minded thought process with intelligent points and discussion.




I do... I watched the Cards get smacked down... ah well...

As for some player thanking his coach.. or his sponsor.. I guess I could have blinked...

Obviously you don't, because that was not a smack down. That was a good game. The smack down was what the Cardinals did to the Panthers. Of course you are not going to talk about the good players who do thank God, coaches, family, and fans, you are too busy being a hater. It happens every game and in interviews all the time. Again, what are you smoking?

Some players thank their sponsers in interviews, but you just keep mentioning it because of HOW MUCH fighters HAVE to do it. The reason the fighters HAVE to thank their sponsors a billion times after a fight is because the sponsors in MMA are tiny companies that need all the advertising they can get and they insist that they do it, and that sponsorship money is usually a big chunk of revenue to the already grossly underpaid UFC fighter.



:wink:

ufcfan2
02-09-2009, 06:04 AM
The unfortunate thing is as long as their is money at stake and noteriety to gain ppl will try and take that step to be better than the competition. Ppl will always find something that will get them ahead of the competition(roids,hgh,pinetar,vasoline:Whistle: ) its just human nature.

Spiritwalker
02-09-2009, 11:55 AM
No need to re-read it. It was poor use of grammar the first time I read it.[/B]

Actually it wasn't. Your just missing what I am saying.. maybe I made it too complex.



Obviously you don't, because that was not a smack down. That was a good game. The smack down was what the Cardinals did to the Panthers. Of course you are not going to talk about the good players who do thank God, coaches, family, and fans, you are too busy being a hater. It happens every game and in interviews all the time. Again, what are you smoking?

Some players thank their sponsers in interviews, but you just keep mentioning it because of HOW MUCH fighters HAVE to do it. The reason the fighters HAVE to thank their sponsors a billion times after a fight is because the sponsors in MMA are tiny companies that need all the advertising they can get and they insist that they do it, and that sponsorship money is usually a big chunk of revenue to the already grossly underpaid UFC fighter.

:wink:


It was a smack down in my opinion. Soooooo close.. and then.. smack.. done.


Over paid and extremely self centered, on the whole compared to MMA fighters.. when you take the number of active NFL players and compare that to active MMA fighters in major organazations, is about one MMA guy to 42 NFL players.. roughly..

Tickets to "Pro Sports" are insanly high, and fewer and fewer people are willing to pay kings ransoms to watch spoiled rich kids, and thugs.. on the whole. Get the team back into a team sport.. and I would care again.. maybe.. but my point was that in MMA, an individual sport, you see more team work and such than you do in football and baseball and even basketball...

J.B.
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
Actually it wasn't. Your just missing what I am saying.. maybe I made it too complex.





It was a smack down in my opinion. Soooooo close.. and then.. smack.. done.


Over paid and extremely self centered, on the whole compared to MMA fighters.. when you take the number of active NFL players and compare that to active MMA fighters in major organazations, is about one MMA guy to 42 NFL players.. roughly..

Tickets to "Pro Sports" are insanly high, and fewer and fewer people are willing to pay kings ransoms to watch spoiled rich kids, and thugs.. on the whole. Get the team back into a team sport.. and I would care again.. maybe.. but my point was that in MMA, an individual sport, you see more team work and such than you do in football and baseball and even basketball...

No, I did not miss what you said, it was a lame attempt at sounding deep. Kinda like the entire point you are trying to make here. You make some decent points, but those points are latent with comments that are just silly and make no sense. Like this one...

in MMA, an individual sport, you see more team work and such than you do in football and baseball and even basketball...

:fryingpan:

Seriously, I bet without using the web you couldn't name 2 players on every team in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. Yet, you seem to have this insider knowledge on the ratio of people who are getting arrested in other leagues compared to MMA. :rolleyes: Quit talking out of your ass, or at least stuff a breath mint up there so it's not so smelly.

As for a king's ransom, that's just hilarious. Why are stadiums still selling out all over the place? I can still get tickets to ANY major team in Chicago or Phoenix for far less than $100 a ticket. If you can't afford that, YOU are the one with the problem, not the teams.

Its funny how you fail to realize just how many spoiled brats and thugs are fighters too. Funny how no matter what negative point is made about MMA you would still sit there and say "it's better than team sports". Really man, everyone gets it, you don't like team sports. Nobody cares.

So get out of the Sports section and just talk about MMA if you hate team sports so much. I never disagreed with you that other pro-sports have people with problems, but you fail to recognize the problems with MMA and just want to prop it up while trying to bash other sports. Quite simply, you are just a hater. I appreciate a nice lively discussion, and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong about something, but you are just out to hate on other sports and talk down your nose rather than have an intelligent discussion. You blindly ignoring facts and using made up ratios is where it makes it impossible to debate with you.

PS - You can hate on the Cardinals all you like, because we all know that it's proving your point and not just making you look like punk. :rolleyes:
At least the Cardinals made it to the show. Too bad you couldnt afford tickets to the Panthers last home game in the playoffs, then you could have seen a real ass whooping. Next time AZ comes to town, let me know and I will buy you a couple tickets so Larry Fitzgerald can you show you how it's done.

rockdawg21
02-09-2009, 02:01 PM
Rockdawg, it's stupid because you are sitting there wishing that the MLB will fail just because you don't like it. It's still one of the biggest sports in the country, and it always will be, so lots of people disagree with you.
Hold up. I'm not wishing it will fail because I don't like it. I'm wishing it will fail because the players cheat by using drugs, they're already rich and then bitch they're not making enough money and go on strike, and they don't even have a salary cap. Teams like the Yankees will always have high ticket sales, charge more for tickets, get major advertising endorsements, sell more food and beverage items, etc. Because of this, they will constantly buy the best players and keep the stands full every game of the year. Other teams, say for example, the KC Royals, will NEVER be able to compete because of the salary cap. The top teams will always be on top while the other teams will always be on bottom.

What I'd hope, is that a new company could emerge from all this controversy but the average MLB fan could seem to care less if their sport is tainted.

J.B.
02-09-2009, 02:16 PM
Hold up. I'm not wishing it will fail because I don't like it. I'm wishing it will fail because the players cheat by using drugs, they're already rich and then bitch they're not making enough money and go on strike, and they don't even have a salary cap. Teams like the Yankees will always have high ticket sales, charge more for tickets, get major advertising endorsements, sell more food and beverage items, etc. Because of this, they will constantly buy the best players and keep the stands full every game of the year. Other teams, say for example, the KC Royals, will NEVER be able to compete because of the salary cap. The top teams will always be on top while the other teams will always be on bottom.

What I'd hope, is that a new company could emerge from all this controversy but the average MLB fan could seem to care less if their sport is tainted.


Fair enough, but you did say, "I hope MLB goes down, it's a boring sport anyways". To me, and lots of other people, that is stupid. I agree with you about the problems facing baseball, but obviously the Yankees are wasting money, because look at where they ended up last post season, lol.

Also, just because SOME of the players have been caught doping does not mean the whole league should fail. There have been people caught using roids in the UFC also, I don't want the UFC to fail.

Yes, players have bitched about being payed more, and some players don't deserve it the amounts they get, but a LOT do. I always find that it's easy for people who are not rich to try and grill rich people for wanting to make more money, as if thats a crime or something. Also, its funny when the people hating on what the players make don't have any comprehension of what those franchises are making in profits. That is part of what is wrong with the UFC, they are not fairly compensating their fighters in comparison to what they making in profits.

rockdawg21
02-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Fair enough, but you did say, "I hope MLB goes down, it's a boring sport anyways". To me, and lots of other people, that is stupid. I agree with you about the problems facing baseball, but obviously the Yankees are wasting money, because look at where they ended up last post season, lol.

Also, just because SOME of the players have been caught doping does not mean the whole league should fail. There have been people caught using roids in the UFC also, I don't want the UFC to fail.

Yes, players have bitched about being payed more, and some players don't deserve it the amounts they get, but a LOT do. I always find that it's easy for people who are not rich to try and grill rich people for wanting to make more money, as if thats a crime or something. Also, its funny when the people hating on what the players make don't have any comprehension of what those franchises are making in profits. That is part of what is wrong with the UFC, they are not fairly compensating their fighters in comparison to what they making in profits.
That's ok if you think it's stupid, I really do think baseball is boring unless you're at the game.

Well no, the people who aren't doping would be able to join the new league. It's guys like Barry Bonds, ARod, etc. who wouldn't be allowed in the league. You're always going to have guys who cheat with drugs, but didn't MLB have something like over 100 players that tested positive and they did nothing? Forgive me if I'm incorrect but I think there was a thread on here somewhere that mentioned like 104 players in 2003 who failed a test and weren't punished.

I haven't any problems with guys wanting to make more money, but to go on strike even when you're already making extremely large sums of money, is ridiculous.

You can't compare the UFC to MLB. UFC pays guys sometimes as low as a few thousand per fight. Even the poorest MLB player makes thousands per game. Apples to oranges.

J.B.
02-09-2009, 02:50 PM
That's ok if you think it's stupid, I really do think baseball is boring unless you're at the game.

Well no, the people who aren't doping would be able to join the new league. It's guys like Barry Bonds, ARod, etc. who wouldn't be allowed in the league. You're always going to have guys who cheat with drugs, but didn't MLB have something like over 100 players that tested positive and they did nothing? Forgive me if I'm incorrect but I think there was a thread on here somewhere that mentioned like 104 players in 2003 who failed a test and weren't punished.

I haven't any problems with guys wanting to make more money, but to go on strike even when you're already making extremely large sums of money, is ridiculous.

You can't compare the UFC to MLB. UFC pays guys sometimes as low as a few thousand per fight. Even the poorest MLB player makes thousands per game. Apples to oranges.

Thats cool if you think it's boring, but saying it should fail is just silly. Saying you need to start a "new league" to get rid of people who are doping is a waste of time. Just test the players properly and get rid of the bad seeds, it's that simple.

Also, you need to realize, in 2003 there were NO rules against steroids in the MLB. It was never something that anybody thought was a problem until the last 10 years after Sosa and McGwire, then Bonds, now A-Rod. Canseco's book did a lot to blow the lid off it too.

As for comparing the UFC and MLB, I realize they are different, but they are both professional sports organizations. Go back and read what's been being said in this thread and you will see why I made the comparison.

rockdawg21
02-09-2009, 03:20 PM
Thats cool if you think it's boring, but saying it should fail is just silly. Saying you need to start a "new league" to get rid of people who are doping is a waste of time. Just test the players properly and get rid of the bad seeds, it's that simple.

Also, you need to realize, in 2003 there were NO rules against steroids in the MLB. It was never something that anybody thought was a problem until the last 10 years after Sosa and McGwire, then Bonds, now A-Rod. Canseco's book did a lot to blow the lid off it too.

As for comparing the UFC and MLB, I realize they are different, but they are both professional sports organizations. Go back and read what's been being said in this thread and you will see why I made the comparison.
Yeah, that's true. It's just kinda hard to trust an organization that's allowed it to happen is all - like saying the company's integrity is already tarnished.

Didn't realize that, like I said, I don't really pay any attention to baseball - kind of ironic considering I was named after George Brett (name is Brett and born in 1980 - pine tar baby :laugh: ).

It's ok, I don't need to re-read the thread, I was only arguing with you. :rotfl:

J.B.
02-09-2009, 03:27 PM
Yeah, that's true. It's just kinda hard to trust an organization that's allowed it to happen is all - like saying the company's integrity is already tarnished.

Didn't realize that, like I said, I don't really pay any attention to baseball - kind of ironic considering I was named after George Brett (name is Brett and born in 1980 - pine tar baby :laugh: ).

It's ok, I don't need to re-read the thread, I was only arguing with you. :rotfl:


Well, it's not really like Baseball just let it happen without caring. This has been a big issue for a while now and I think MLB and the players union has done a lot to get the sport cleaned up. These tests that have just come out were done by the league in 2003 just to see if they needed to start having random drug testing, and they DO now. Those test results were supposed to be destroyed and never made public, but obviously somebody in the players union thought it was a good idea to keep them around. MLB needs to release the names of the other 103 players so that the whole league does not have to have this black cloud over it.

Yeah, I would not re-read all that junk either, lol, but my point was that Spiritwalker has been on a tirade about "team sports" and how the UFC and MMA is so much better, thats why I made the comparison. :wink:

NateR
02-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Baseball has been looking more and more disgraceful over the years and I come from a family whose lives practically revolved around the St. Louis Cardinals and the World Series. But it's just become so hard to follow the sport now without getting frustrated with the blatant corruption.

I don't think the sport needs to die, maybe it just needs a reboot. All-new management, all-new players. Just let it disappear for a couple of years and then rebuild it again from scratch.

J.B.
02-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Baseball has been looking more and more disgraceful over the years and I come from a family whose lives practically revolved around the St. Louis Cardinals and the World Series. But it's just become so hard to follow the sport now without getting frustrated with the blatant corruption.

I don't think the sport needs to die, maybe it just needs a reboot. All-new management, all-new players. Just let it disappear for a couple of years and then rebuild it again from scratch.

I agree with you and many other people who think Baseball has some big problems facing it right now, but I would not call it blatant corruption, at least not on a level that is any more so than any other pro sports league, including the UFC. What I don't understand is the idea that the league somehow needs to be broken apart and rebuilt. Baseball is actually doing good right now, despite all the problems. People are actually caring again, and a big part of that has been Bud Selig. Baseball has tightened up their drug testing policies NOW, but the reason people are making such a stink about this is because of the big names involved the steroid controversy. You can't just rebuild our nation's pastime from scratch. This league is important to our country, and it should be cleaned up, but not torn down.

People need to remember that Baseball never had rules about what substances were banned until a few years ago. Before that, a lot of guys used different things to help them get an edge in training but not all of those guys were injecting HGH and being sneaky about it. Some guys were taking suppliments that were bought legally over the counter, like Mark McGwire, but now he's got a black cloud over his head. Basically, people are just looking at the actions of a few and making sweeping generalizations about the entire league.

cubsfan47
02-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Baseball has been looking more and more disgraceful over the years and I come from a family whose lives practically revolved around the St. Louis Cardinals and the World Series. But it's just become so hard to follow the sport now without getting frustrated with the blatant corruption.

I don't think the sport needs to die, maybe it just needs a reboot. All-new management, all-new players. Just let it disappear for a couple of years and then rebuild it again from scratch.

I agree with Nate on this. Although I must admit my life used to revolve around another team which hasn't been to a World Series in a long time.:laugh:

I think that baseball has other issues which are at least as serious as steroids.

The two superstations of the early years of cable (WTBS and WGN) used to carry most of the home games of the teams in their respective cities. This built up a huge fan base for both the Braves and the Cubs. WTBS does not carry Braves games anymore, and WGN doesn't have nearly as much baseball as it used to. These are just two examples of what I think is a more disturbing trend, baseball moving to sports networks that are available only as part of extra cost cable or satellite packages.

Of course this trend is explained by the money issue. But that's the problem for many people now, money.

I had to make a choice. Either I could continue to subscribe to the baseball package through Direct TV or I could spend the same amount monthly on an MMA PPV. So I gave up the baseball package.

I will still be able to watch some baseball, just not as much. Maybe I'll enjoy it more.

So what will happen to the fan base of baseball? I think it will start to erode. That's an even bigger problem for the future of baseball.

J.B.
02-09-2009, 09:52 PM
I'm a White Sox fan, and WGN still plays MOST of the Cubs games, and even some White Sox games too. Heck, in Arizona, WGN is a part of the basic cable package just because of all the Chicago natives around Phoenix. When the games are not on WGN, they are on another basic cable channel called Comcast Sports Network if you are in the Chicago area. The only other games are on Sunday Night Baseball which is on ESPN. Anybody with BASIC cable gets ESPN.

MLB still has basic TV deals with local networks in all the major markets, so everybody is still getting to see their team play most of the time even if they don't have basic cable or satellite. The only people who really need the extra sports packages from their TV provider are people who don't live in the city of the team they are rooting for, or people who are crazy and want to watch every game. Although I will admit, I am more likely to listen to the games on the radio than actually watch them on TV. I'm just weird like that. :laugh:

I don't think Baseball is at any risk of dying or even coming close. Even the steroids issue is really just a bump in the road, but it's definitely a big one.

rockdawg21
02-09-2009, 11:05 PM
FYI, WGN is everywhere. It's part of Time Warner Cable, Mediacom Cable, DirecTV, Dish Network, etc. It's like getting the Braves games on TBS.

Spiritwalker
02-10-2009, 03:08 AM
No, I did not miss what you said, it was a lame attempt at sounding deep. Kinda like the entire point you are trying to make here. You make some decent points, but those points are latent with comments that are just silly and make no sense. Like this one...


It isn't the fault of the users.. it's a fault in the athlete. IMO

meaning The Users are not the problem. How many kids and amateur athletes started using because of the hype behind some of the biggest names in baseball.. the hype cause of the money that they make. The coddled and pampered, when others are working their asses off..The thugs (and yes there are some in MMA) that are million dollar criminals.. forget them... and I refuse to allow them to take $$ from me and mine.

The athletes are the ones that brings others into using.. the team mates that cover for the known users.. the teams that cover for the athletes..





:fryingpan:

Seriously, I bet without using the web you couldn't name 2 players on every team in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. Yet, you seem to have this insider knowledge on the ratio of people who are getting arrested in other leagues compared to MMA. :rolleyes: Quit talking out of your ass, or at least stuff a breath mint up there so it's not so smelly.

Your right. I can't name 2 players on every team.. just many.. but I do know how many players are on a MLB, NBA and NFL team. Now you take that number.. and compare that to the number of MMA fighters in the UFC, WEC and Affiliation. Take that number and compare that to the number of steroid abusers, and violent criminals and arrests.. simple math.


As for a king's ransom, that's just hilarious. Why are stadiums still selling out all over the place? I can still get tickets to ANY major team in Chicago or Phoenix for far less than $100 a ticket. If you can't afford that, YOU are the one with the problem, not the teams.

They are not. Specifically in baseball. Basketball isn't doing to well either.. but instead of cleaning up the sports and getting respect from the fans.. they continue to pay WAYYY to much.. and to subsidize those paychecks.. they continue to raise ticket prices.. , but work to keep blackouts in place so fans can't watch at home.


Its funny how you fail to realize just how many spoiled brats and thugs are fighters too.

Baby Jay don't count.. the Diaz boys are thugs..I can't stand those fighters that have no "class".

Funny how no matter what negative point is made about MMA you would still sit there and say "it's better than team sports". Really man, everyone gets it, you don't like team sports. Nobody cares.

I love team sports.. I play baseball for the fun of it. I play touch football .. I am a coach and competitor in my dojo's competition team.. I think that the major league teams should start caring about their fans.. start putting effort to having players that are more for their team than just personal achievement. That's all.


So get out of the Sports section and just talk about MMA if you hate team sports so much.

Well considering that this thread was started in the UFC section, and I made statements that you take issue with.. I will finish what I start.


I never disagreed with you that other pro-sports have people with problems, but you fail to recognize the problems with MMA and just want to prop it up while trying to bash other sports.

The only problem with MMA is that is trying to get into areas where it is banned.. and not having as much success as I would like.. and many others...

Many MMA fighters need to be paid more.. but as far as steroids.. there are much bigger fish to fry.. and the UFC/WEC abide by the various commissions. The UFC/WEC/Affiliction/Ruckus in the Cage/Rumble on the Rock/ and various others.. do not mandate testing..


Quite simply, you are just a hater. I appreciate a nice lively discussion, and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong about something, but you are just out to hate on other sports and talk down your nose rather than have an intelligent discussion. You blindly ignoring facts and using made up ratios is where it makes it impossible to debate with you.

simple math buddy.. simple math.. and I don't hate team sports.. I hate the corruption and the underhanded crap that is fed to fans.. the UFC has issues sure.. but again...much bigger fish..

PS - You can hate on the Cardinals all you like, because we all know that it's proving your point and not just making you look like punk. :rolleyes:

I don't hate the Cards. I just prefer the St. Louis variety.. until the crap with Mark.. for baseball.. but in regards to football.. Kelly Stouffer was Da Bomb!



At least the Cardinals made it to the show. Too bad you couldnt afford tickets to the Panthers last home game in the playoffs, then you could have seen a real ass whooping. Next time AZ comes to town, let me know and I will buy you a couple tickets so Larry Fitzgerald can you show you how it's done.

You might not want to talk about what I can and can not afford.. I can afford a lot.. am I wealthy? Nah.. but I can afford a good deal.. but I do refuse to toss my money at thugs and drug users... like I said.. it's more fun to go see a high school game.. but it takes something away from the game when you have star high school players.. that can't read.. I would rather see the Charlotte Knights play baseball.. it's the same game.. and they are trying.. and you can "feel" the team atmosphere..

Yep.. the Panthers are great at knowing how to choke.. could care less about them either..

And remember the PSLs.. utter crap.. what about the fans ..

But Kevin Greene and Wes Walls.. man they were fun to watch.. Steve Beuerlein was an excellent QB

but look at them in the last few years.. hell even the cheerleaders get arrested...remember Rae Carruth...

J.B.
02-10-2009, 03:50 AM
Spirit, the bottom line is you are not using "simple math". You are trying to make a very complex comparison and you are using made up facts to do it. Anybody could come up with your opinion if they just choose to ignore or write off the things fighters and the companies do that are less than desirable. Saying things like "they had mental issues", or "bigger fish to fry". Thats ridiculous. All the while, you forget the very basic fact that with more people comes more problems, hence the fact you see a higher number of people in other leagues with "problem children" so to speak. I don't think the ratio is really as far off as you are trying to suggest, and you don't have the facts to prove your point. You are being grossly unfair and biased in comparison when talking about the character of the athletes in other sports when compared to MMA. Period.

As for ticket prices and player compensation, I'm sorry you don't agree with people being fairly paid for what they bring to a company. As for people not going to games, you are just wrong on so many levels it's ridiculous. Did you forget about what our economy looks like? Considering how tight money is everywhere right now, these franchises are doing AWESOME. Sure, some of the smaller markets take a bigger hit, but that's how it always goes. It will bounce back. Some players ARE overpaid, but on the whole most players are not.

It isn't the fault of the users.. it's a fault in the athlete. IMO

meaning The Users are not the problem. How many kids and amateur athletes started using because of the hype behind some of the biggest names in baseball.. the hype cause of the money that they make. The coddled and pampered, when others are working their asses off..The thugs (and yes there are some in MMA) that are million dollar criminals.. forget them... and I refuse to allow them to take $$ from me and mine.

The athletes are the ones that brings others into using.. the team mates that cover for the known users.. the teams that cover for the athletes..


Bro, like I already said. I understood what you were saying, but you don't really make your points clear with vague statements like that one in bold. As for your point about kids juicing, thats all fine and dandy, because nobody is arguing that steroids should not be banned. But not ALL the biggest athletes are doing it, and not ALL the biggest athletes are wife beating, rapist, drug addict thugs. So WHY are you condemning all of pro team sports? Thats what I disagree with.

As for the Panthers, you mentioned it being expensive to go to a Panthers game with the family, so thats why I brought them up. You took a shot at the Cardinals first, so if you keep your punches above the belt, so will I. :wink:

Spiritwalker
02-10-2009, 03:57 AM
So WHY are you condemning all of pro team sports?



Because it's not about the team any more.. It's about the individuals on the teams.

MMA is more of a team sport than the NFL and MLB...

J.B.
02-10-2009, 04:03 AM
MMA is more of a team sport than the NFL and MLB...


No it's not.

Thats what I mean when I say you are making ridiculous statements.

cubsfan47
02-10-2009, 02:48 PM
FYI, WGN is everywhere. It's part of Time Warner Cable, Mediacom Cable, DirecTV, Dish Network, etc. It's like getting the Braves games on TBS.

Well yes of course it is. The difficulty is that the Chicago area sports teams have decided to form a Chicago Area Sports Network. The feed is provided by Comcast and is labeled Comcast Sports Chicago; or at least it is on Direct TV.

When Cubs games were available on Extra Innings last season much the time the feed was not provided by WGN but rather Comcast Sports Chicago. Odd thing is they did use the WGN announcers.

I have seen the broadcast schedule and there are still many games available on WGN but there has been a continuation of the shift away from WGN. Now that the Tribune no longer owns the Cubs, the trend will probably accelerate.

This means a reduction in the games available locally by broadcast and nationally as well unless you have an extra cost package.

For the Braves fans, the situation is even worse. WTBS will not carry any Braves games. Those will usually only be on Sports South.

J.B.
02-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Well yes of course it is. The difficulty is that the Chicago area sports teams have decided to form a Chicago Area Sports Network. The feed is provided by Comcast and is labeled Comcast Sports Chicago; or at least it is on Direct TV.

When Cubs games were available on Extra Innings last season much the time the feed was not provided by WGN but rather Comcast Sports Chicago. Odd thing is they did use the WGN announcers.

I have seen the broadcast schedule and there are still many games available on WGN but there has been a continuation of the shift away from WGN. Now that the Tribune no longer owns the Cubs, the trend will probably accelerate.

This means a reduction in the games available locally by broadcast and nationally as well unless you have an extra cost package.

For the Braves fans, the situation is even worse. WTBS will not carry any Braves games. Those will usually only be on Sports South.

It's the same announcers because it's still the same production crew bringing you the game. Comcast Sports Network has a lot of the games for the Cubs, Sox, Bulls, and Blackhawks, but it's not an extra cost channel, it's part of basic cable (probably because Comcast is Chicago's cable provider). Also, they still air a LOT of the Cubs games on WGN and they also have White Sox games on another local channel that is not a cable network called WCIU Channel 26, but even when they air the games on that channel is still has the CSN logo attached.

As a Cubs fan you are lucky you can see ANY games without ordering an extra package. The Cubs get some extra perks being the lovable losers with one of the biggest fan-bases in professional sports. If I wanna watch games from my favorite teams in Arizona I either gotta order the expensive packages or find a good stream online. Needless to say, I prefer the latter. :wink:

J.B.
02-10-2009, 07:50 PM
Great...now they are charging Tejada with lying to federal investigators...perfect time to waste more tax dollars. Don't get me wrong, I am against jucing, and I want the names of the other players exposed, but this is just stupid.

Why is congress spending hundreds of millions of dollars on prosecuting baseball players???

:shocked: