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rockdawg21
08-31-2009, 05:32 PM
Got this in my e-mail, I like it!

Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. So here is my question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check ..... because I have to pass one to earn it for them!?!

Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their rump-doing drugs, while I work. Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check? I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all will pass it along, though. Something has to change in this country - and soon!!!!

All the best!

An American Tax Payer

Buzzard
08-31-2009, 05:49 PM
Got this in my e-mail, I like it!

Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. So here is my question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check ..... because I have to pass one to earn it for them!?!

Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their rump-doing drugs, while I work. Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check? I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all will pass it along, though. Something has to change in this country - and soon!!!!

All the best!

An American Tax Payer

I got that email, too, but I deleted it instead of passing it along.

Just imagine the costs associated with that. I thought people wanted less government interference in their lives and a smaller government. There are many reasons why I am against that idea, cost is just one of them.

Crisco
08-31-2009, 05:51 PM
I got that email, too, but I deleted it instead of passing it along.

Just imagine the costs associated with that. I thought people wanted less government interference in their lives and a smaller government. There are many reasons why I am against that idea, cost is just one of them.

urine tests cost about twenty bucks. Deduct it from their first welfare check and nothing changes except drug addicts dont buy drugs with my taxes.

Buzzard
08-31-2009, 06:01 PM
urine tests cost about twenty bucks. Deduct it from their first welfare check and nothing changes except drug addicts dont buy drugs with my taxes.

Why should it be deducted when it would be forced upon them to have it by a big brother government?

Do you have a problem with them buying booze and cigarettes? How about potato chips and unhealthy food? Do you mind them buying anything that isn't declared a necessity? Where will it end?

Crisco
08-31-2009, 06:18 PM
1)Why should it be deducted when it would be forced upon them to have it by a big brother government?

2)Do you have a problem with them buying booze and cigarettes? How about potato chips and unhealthy food? Do you mind them buying anything that isn't declared a necessity? Where will it end?


1) Because they are taking money from the Government by choice. If you want the money you need to follow the guidelines for it. It's only big rother if your a hard working american ho gets his door broken down and forced to pee by swat.

2) Those things are not illegal. Your smarter then that.


What are your other concerns exactly?

Chris F
08-31-2009, 06:26 PM
How about stopping welfare all together and make them earn their keep like everyone else. Welfare as it was introduced was for the disabled not the lazy able. If you can spend the welfare check on your own you can certainly earn a check. Charity by threat of law is not charity nor is it the government's job. Stupid FDR and his new deal has created a nation of free loaders. However a simple glance at history shows us this exact same thing brought an end to the Roman Empire. Ir will destroy the American Empire sure enough. We need to end the free bread and circuses for the able bodied.

logrus
08-31-2009, 07:05 PM
I haven't had to piss in a cup in 16 years of working,

rearnakedchoke
08-31-2009, 07:37 PM
you guys have to piss in a cup to work????

Tyburn
08-31-2009, 09:17 PM
Got this in my e-mail, I like it!

Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. So here is my question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check ..... because I have to pass one to earn it for them!?!

Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their rump-doing drugs, while I work. Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check? I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all will pass it along, though. Something has to change in this country - and soon!!!!

All the best!

An American Tax Payer

Does the Government tell you what to spend you're money on?

No.

So what right do you have to tell the Government what to do with there money?


Is it your Government that demands a Urine Sample...or your employers...I'd say your employers...so WTF does you passing a Urine test for your employers to pay you...got to do with what the Government does with the money you pay to them???

Nothing. Nothing at all. Its not the Governments fault you have to pee to appease your employer.


You pay them, they do whatever they like with it...just like you do whatever you like with the money paid to you.

Remember...your Government has rights too. Mind your own business :laugh:

Chuck
08-31-2009, 09:26 PM
I would be all for it. But I also think women on welfare should be forced to get a BC injection or cap their benefits with the current number of children they have.

Tyburn
08-31-2009, 09:27 PM
urine tests cost about twenty bucks. Deduct it from their first welfare check and nothing changes except drug addicts dont buy drugs with my taxes.
They arent your taxes once you've paid them.

They are Government funds. Its no longer your money. Your money goes to the Government...when the Money comes out from the Government it is no longer in your name.

Should the Government wish to do a transaction with a druggie...well..quite honnestly, thats a private Transaction between Government and Druggie...it has nothing to do with you, it is no longer your concern is it

The truth is far more simple. You dont like paying taxes to the Government. The Americans never have :laugh:

Buzzard
08-31-2009, 09:34 PM
1) Because they are taking money from the Government by choice. If you want the money you need to follow the guidelines for it. It's only big rother if your a hard working american ho gets his door broken down and forced to pee by swat.

Are you going to check to make sure the money isn't spent on illegal gambling? Or maybe they would fill up their gas tank and speed in the vehicle that just got gas. That's illegal too. Isn't it innocent until proven guilty? With this it is guilty until proven innocent. Any intrusion by the government I consider big brother. What would your recourse be when one has a false positive on the test?

There are also ways to pass a urine test.


2) Those things are not illegal. Your smarter then that.

There are a lot of other illegal ways where people could spend the money, so how would you suggest monitoring them to be sure they don't spend it or do anything else illegal with it?

What are your other concerns exactly?

I'm against illegal searches and seizures, and I consider this to fall into that category.

I like the fact that one is innocent until proven guilty, but this idea goes against that.

I don't like where this idea could take us further down the road.

This idea assumes that all people who receive benefits are drug abusers, and if this idea were implemented, treats them as such without any specific evidence against them.

It's also intrusive, and for some folks, may be just as embarrassing as having to be on welfare itself. Personally, I don't wish to have someone watch me as I am taking a piss. That infringes on my right to privacy.

Rev
08-31-2009, 10:00 PM
They arent your taxes once you've paid them.

They are Government funds. Its no longer your money. Your money goes to the Government...when the Money comes out from the Government it is no longer in your name.

Should the Government wish to do a transaction with a druggie...well..quite honnestly, thats a private Transaction between Government and Druggie...it has nothing to do with you, it is no longer your concern is it

The truth is far more simple. You dont like paying taxes to the Government. The Americans never have :laugh:

I sure hope that was sarcasm.

That is not the government's money, "of, by and for the people"

I dont like where this would go in the future and while I hate the idea of drug heads on welfare, this would only give the government more say so in our lives.

Neezar
08-31-2009, 10:16 PM
I don't think it is intended to be a cure for anything but a deterrent.

Chuck
08-31-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm against illegal searches and seizures, and I consider this to fall into that category.

I like the fact that one is innocent until proven guilty, but this idea goes against that.

I don't like where this idea could take us further down the road.

This idea assumes that all people who receive benefits are drug abusers, and if this idea were implemented, treats them as such without any specific evidence against them.

It's also intrusive, and for some folks, may be just as embarrassing as having to be on welfare itself. Personally, I don't wish to have someone watch me as I am taking a piss. That infringes on my right to privacy.

I guess I just see it differently.

When you're on unemployment one of the requirements is that you're actively looking for work. Does that mean that they assume everybody on unemployment is a slacker who won't look for work? I don't think so. They're just taking steps to make sure the benefits aren't wasted or taken advantage of. Does it happen anyway? Of course.. but they're doing what they can.

If you made drug testing a part of receiving welfare I don't think you're implying all the people on it are using drugs. I think you're simply stating that you need to be drug free to collect, no different then drug free to work for certain companies.

My thoughts anyway....

The downside would be a huge increase in crime I believe and my assumption would be that's why we don't already do it. The government would rather pay people to stay at home and burden society then have them all out on the street looking to survive in "other" ways..

Neezar
08-31-2009, 10:54 PM
The downside would be a huge increase in crime I believe and my assumption would be that's why we don't already do it. The government would rather pay people to stay at home and burden society then have them all out on the street looking to survive in "other" ways..

So, then we use the money saved on welfare, build more prisons, and create jobs for people to work them! Everybody wins! :w00t:



lol

rockdawg21
09-01-2009, 01:13 AM
It's actually not really the employers that want to require urine tests to hire employees, it's the insurance companies that cover the companies hiring employees.

Buzzard, if a person can receive a welfare check for doing nothing, then have the possible opportunity to go buy drugs with that money, I see nothing wrong with them having to take a urine test in order to receive each and every check. So it costs us $20, it's better than giving $400 or $500 to people to do more harm to themselves or others with their drug use.

Obama decided to free terrorists who want to kill us and move them to an island paradise at taxpayers' expense. I don't hear you complaining about that, so why would you possibly complain about this?

Chuck
09-01-2009, 02:35 AM
So, then we use the money saved on welfare, build more prisons, and create jobs for people to work them! Everybody wins! :w00t:



lol

Don't get me started on my thoughts about prison reform!!!

Neezar
09-01-2009, 02:36 AM
Don't get me started on my thoughts about prison reform!!!

Deal!



:laugh:

Tyburn
09-01-2009, 12:22 PM
I sure hope that was sarcasm.

That is not the government's money, "of, by and for the people"

I dont like where this would go in the future and while I hate the idea of drug heads on welfare, this would only give the government more say so in our lives.
No, its business. In many ways, the Government is only really Ellected by the people...and through your system of ellectorial votes, its not even as simple as that. Once they are in power they have a job to do. The American Citizens do nothing but stop the Government from doing their job.

You say you dont want the Government in your life...but when there is a disastor, its all your Governments fault for not stopping or pre-empting it...which they cant do without information, and they cant get information without what you see as a breach of rights....interestingly, you dont seem to feel that the same rights are universal.

For example, you have your inviolatory Rights, but your employers can do whatever they want and dont need to be guided by a Union...and yet your Government has next to no rights at all in the eyes of the People does it???

The wish not to pay excessive taxes has led to Revolution in the United States before now. :laugh:

Crisco
09-01-2009, 04:32 PM
Does the Government tell you what to spend you're money on?

No.

Not entirely true David. The government forces us to buy many things. Insurance on certain things being one of them.

So what right do you have to tell the Government what to do with there money?

Bull**** David. It is not the governments money. IT IS MY MONEY. Taxes belong to the people and are distributed by the government.

Is it your Government that demands a Urine Sample...or your employers...I'd say your employers...so WTF does you passing a Urine test for your employers to pay you...got to do with what the Government does with the money you pay to them???

Why should a government institution supplement income to a person who actively participates in drug use? There by commiting a crime and supplying drug dealers with further capital to expand their enterprise and do more harm.

Nothing. Nothing at all. Its not the Governments fault you have to pee to appease your employer.

The employers wants to ensure you do not participate in illicit activities that may effect your work. If a person is a drug addict they are far less likely to succeed in the work place as the addiction to drugs is quite distracting. The object of welfare is to help you get on your feet not keep you stoned on "soma" for the rest of your life while you lay on your couch. THAT is big brother.


You pay them, they do whatever they like with it...just like you do whatever you like with the money paid to you.

Remember...your Government has rights too. Mind your own business :laugh:
This is exactly the reason why your country is going to be muslim in 40 years. The brits are damn busy sucking the government teet and walking by. Please David you insult your government whenever you can. It's completely inept and detached from reality. Their leading your country right to Sharia and it's all because everyone is "minding their own business"

and don't think I'm being mean because you decided to condescend first my friend.



Oh and God bless America

Tyburn
09-01-2009, 05:27 PM
Oh and God bless America
I dont aggree with the medical insurance thing they force you into...but I am right in assuming you'd rather pay that, then have a National Health Service...car inusrance and the likes I can understand

...Oh and...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LSarhZpnMs :happydancing:

Crisco
09-01-2009, 05:49 PM
I dont aggree with the medical insurance thing they force you into...but I am right in assuming you'd rather pay that, then have a National Health Service...car inusrance and the likes I can understand

...Oh and...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LSarhZpnMs :happydancing:

there was a lot more in htta post I neglected to put in red sorry. just do a quick read through.

Tyburn
09-01-2009, 08:35 PM
there was a lot more in htta post I neglected to put in red sorry. just do a quick read through.
:ninja: oh...okay...sorry I missed that :laugh:

1) Tell me Crisco. When you get your pay check, whose money is it? When you spend your pay check, is it still your employers money you are spending? If you blew all your pay check on the lottery...would it disgrace your employer?

Taxes are the way a Government funds itself. Consider, that the land you live on by definition of it being in a certain Geography does not actually belong fully to you, even if you own the deed. Taxes are composed of two types. The first is Income Tax. Consider this pretty much a rent to your government for allowing you to live and work on their land. The second is Amenity Tax. This is actually subcontraction, you pay your government to deliver certain things...perhaps to take away your rubish, or to provide you with Emergency Services.

IF you dont pay taxes, the Government have the right to either detain you, or evict you. If you dont pay amenities, then they do not have to provide any services for you.

The Government is NOT just a Hive Mind. The Government is not just the Citizenry. Its actually as much an insitution as an Employer...and like in a company, you can buy shares, and thus have an influence...so it is basically that because you are an of age American Citizen you have shares in the Government....this does not mean you, singularly, own the Government, it doesnt mean the Government must conform to your every wish. It means on key ellements, you are one voice in many that may advise, and the Government must go with the majority or face collapse when its shareholders all pull out (A revolution)

2) The Government should not. BUT, is it not the Governments choice and duty to allocate funds? Do you get a vote on how the Government Distributes funds? if you do, then you have a right to be sorely dissapointed. But if you do not, then the bussiness transaction between one person and another, is their concern...and IF there is corruption, then document proof and take it to the judiciary.

IF you can PROOVE in a Criminal Court that your Government is funding Crime, then you will have the rights to impeach the President, and to abolish and re-instate a new Congress. However...as your Declaration of Independance says...major Governments, should not be disposed of upon a whim. You need to start collecting evidence of maltreatment, that is getting worse, in many areas, over a long period of time.

Can you proove what you claim, is there proof that the government is knowlingly, deliberatley, actively, supporting Druggies? If there is and you care, then you have a duty to do far more then talk about it.

3) What benefit to the Government, is there for keeping and supporting long term people? Its a drain on resources surely that they wouldnt want to encourage.

Our Employers never dare to pry like that with urine samples. I would be most offended if I went into work tommorow, and my boss said I had to give a sample to work. In England, its simple, they pay you to work...if you are a druggie and you cant work...they stop paying you and lay you off. I'd also show up positive, for Sertraline Hydrochloride :laugh: They did ask if I was on meds when I started, but the information got stored, and now everyone always seems suprised when they discover im on anti-depressents

4) We differ on what a Government is supposed to be. Our Government is ellected TO LEAD AND PROVIDE. That is the Governments duty. We Ellect them to do what they do

Let me ask you a serious question. Which President has ever been removed by Public Opinion alone? Which Senator has been cast out on the grounds of nothing more then Public Opinion? Because in England, Public Opinion can KILL Politicians.

If a person in Government does something wrong...we shout about it...We SCREAM about it...we make it impossible for them to continue in their post, and we are damn good at that. We Removed Maggie Thatcher, We Removed Tony Blair...BOTH WITHOUT A GENERAL ELLECTION.

You watch heads roll in the coming week in Scotland and Westminster because of this Libya thing. Do you really think the Public are going to stand by and do nothing? The Papers are FULL of it. When Gordon Brown refused to comment, the Paper Revealed front page, all the things he did comment on. They published that he couldnt speak about the Bombers release...but he found time to congratulate some sportsman on a win of some sort. FRONT PAGE Headlines. We force their own parties to recognise that a future in the face of such public opinion is untennable, and sooner or later, the inevitable comes...

Like it did for Speaker Martin VERY Recently, when The Commons said he could resign, or face a vote of no confidence. A vote of No Confidence is a mutiny and done when someone has become unfit for duty.

Hear me well when I say, play it all in the light....Institutions do not expect you to go out and talk about things they consider private. If they wrong you, and you say nothing, they get away with it. But if they wrong you and you tell EVERYONE...

Said the Lord Bishop of London when he was told that British Airways had suspended an employee for refusal to remove her cross... "I hope they dont ask me to remove my pectoral cross when I fly with them"

Ironically, British Airways had a sudden change of heart not so long after that. So FAR from being unable. The British Public and Media can reduce the Government to nothing...Like...when they changed their minds about funding those War Vetrans visit to Normandy. We didnt need to Vote. We just went global with our dirty laundry...and suddenly it came out clean as a whistle :laugh:

Tyburn
09-01-2009, 08:36 PM
please note. I'm not angry at you. I think so long as we stay rational and unemotional, we can have good discussions on these sorts of topics. This to me is one of the biggest differences between our two cultures...the way we view "Government" what it is, what it does etc

Jonlion
09-01-2009, 10:39 PM
So you deny people who have struggles with Drugs the right to eat? The right for shelter?

If you leave it like this won't you force desperate Druggies to go out and commit henious crimes against innocent victims to fund their addictions and hunger.

The real issue is with the system, welfare or benefits, it needs overhauling, maybe ones welfare decreases regularly each week you fail to find work, or screw up or miss interviews etc etc

So eventually if is Wendys that needs employment, they have to take it. Although on the flipside, those people there need to encourage suitable jobs and offer practical help.

I can tell you all about the miseries of British Welfare system but it would bore ya'll!

Point is, there is no easy answer.

Chuck
09-02-2009, 02:24 AM
So you deny people who have struggles with Drugs the right to eat? The right for shelter?

If you leave it like this won't you force desperate Druggies to go out and commit henious crimes against innocent victims to fund their addictions and hunger.

The real issue is with the system, welfare or benefits, it needs overhauling, maybe ones welfare decreases regularly each week you fail to find work, or screw up or miss interviews etc etc

So eventually if is Wendys that needs employment, they have to take it. Although on the flipside, those people there need to encourage suitable jobs and offer practical help.

I can tell you all about the miseries of British Welfare system but it would bore ya'll!

Point is, there is no easy answer.

I agree with 99% of your post...

However I don't believe that shelter or food is a right... :wink:

Moose
09-02-2009, 04:52 AM
2) Those things are not illegal. Your smarter then that.



:laugh:

Miss Foxy
09-02-2009, 01:20 PM
I would be all for it. But I also think women on welfare should be forced to get a BC injection or cap their benefits with the current number of children they have.
You said the words right outta my mouth!! Unfortunately many people use welfare as a way of life not for temporary assistance like it was made for...

Crisco
09-02-2009, 01:35 PM
You said the words right outta my mouth!! Unfortunately many people use welfare as a way of life not for temporary assistance like it was made for...

exactly. and using tax money to support their drug habit doesn't help anyone not even themselves.

Crisco
09-02-2009, 01:37 PM
I agree with 99% of your post...

However I don't believe that shelter or food is a right... :wink:

This.


Everyone who is able bodied has to pull their weight or they should starve and freeze.

Miss Foxy
09-02-2009, 01:41 PM
I know women that have 4 or 5 children benefits paid for by the government. Im not talking just medical insurance. Food stamps, subsidized housing, and free daycare. If most of those girls had to pay for everything alone I doubt they would keep having babies. Sad thing is hard working people who do things without a handout have to think twice about having more children due to our economy and other factors.. Makes me sick! Then you meet a mother, father, or family that really would appreciate and utilize these programs and they can't get the help due to red tape!! Makes me sick!!

Jonlion
09-02-2009, 02:08 PM
I agree with 99% of your post...

However I don't believe that shelter or food is a right... :wink:

I guess it isnt a right, its a real fine line between helping those who need it and those who cheat the system.

The'll always be those who take advantage and those who cheat, the key is to lower that number.

It has no easy answer.

rockdawg21
09-03-2009, 01:01 AM
I know women that have 4 or 5 children benefits paid for by the government. Im not talking just medical insurance. Food stamps, subsidized housing, and free daycare. If most of those girls had to pay for everything alone I doubt they would keep having babies. Sad thing is hard working people who do things without a handout have to think twice about having more children due to our economy and other factors.. Makes me sick! Then you meet a mother, father, or family that really would appreciate and utilize these programs and they can't get the help due to red tape!! Makes me sick!!
Or good citizens who've never committed (major) crimes not getting help to pay for college. Yet, a criminal can be rotting in a jail cell or somebody who's been convicted of a felony can get their tuition paid. :banghead: