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NateR
08-12-2009, 04:17 AM
This news is actually very encouraging for those who oppose Obama's death-care plan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_protests

LEBANON, Pa. Jeers and taunts drowned out Democrats calling for a health care overhaul at town halls Tuesday, and one lawmaker said a swastika was spray-painted at his office as debate turned to noisy confrontation over President Barack Obama's plan. The president himself was treated more respectfully.
"You'll be gone, by God the bureaucrats will still be here," one man told Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., at a town hall in Lebanon, Pa.
"If they don't let us vent our frustrations out, they will have a revolution," Mary Ann Fieser of Hillsboro, Mo., told Sen. Claire McCaskill at her Missouri health care forum.
McCaskill admonished the rowdy crowd of some 1,500.
"I don't understand this rudeness," she said. "I honestly don't get it."
The bitter sessions underscored the challenge for the administration as it tries to win over an increasingly skeptical public on the costly and far-reaching task of revamping the nation's health care system. Desperate to stop a hardening opposition, the White House created a Web site to dispel what it says are smears and House Democrats set up a health care "war room" out of Majority Leader Steny Hoyer's office to help lawmakers handle questions.
Obama answered his critics indirectly. At his town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., he urged Americans to ignore those who try to "scare and mislead the American people," telling a cordial audience, "For all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we do nothing."
Though his popularity is slipping in polls, Obama himself is repeatedly trying to make the case to the public for passage of comprehensive legislation this year to bring down costs and extend coverage to many of the 50 million uninsured.
Obama's questions bore no resemblance to what Specter got.
At a crowded community college in Pennsylvania, Specter heard from speaker after speaker who accused him of trampling on their constitutional rights, adding to the federal deficit or allowing government bureaucrats to take over health care.
"My children and grandchildren are going to pay for this," said another.
"One day God will stand before you and judge you!" shouted a man before security guards approached and he left the room.
Specter gamely tried to explain his positions and on occasion mediate among shouting constituents saying he wouldn't vote for a bill that adds to the deficit. He also said he wouldn't support a bill that extends coverage to illegal immigrants. None of the bills in Congress would provide health insurance to illegal immigrants.
One woman tried to make it personal for Specter, alleging that the Democrats' plan would not provide care to a man in his 70s with cancer, like Specter had.
"You're here because of the plan we have now," she said.
Specter, 79, who has battled cancer twice since 2005, showed some heat at that.
"Well, you're just not right," he said. He called her claim a "vicious, malicious" rumor.
The passions of the crowd illustrated the problems for Democratic lawmakers around the country as they try to use the monthlong August recess to promote Obama's agenda. There's not a single plan to promote, which Specter later told reporters made his job harder, along with the complexity of the issue. The House bill is more than 1,000 pages.
And, Specter said, "The objectors have gotten ahead of the curve." Asked why, he cited talk radio, among other factors.
In Georgia, Democratic Rep. David Scott's staff arrived at his Smyrna, Ga., office outside Atlanta on Tuesday morning to find a large, black swastika spray-painted on a sign out front bearing his name. The vandalism occurred roughly a week after Scott was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a community meeting.
Scott, who is black, said he also has received mail in recent days that used N-word references to him and that characterized Obama as a Marxist.
"We have got to make sure that the symbol of the swastika does not win, that the racial hatred that's bubbling up does not win this debate," Scott said in a telephone interview. "That's what is bubbling up with all of this. There's so much hatred out there for President Obama."
In Missouri, McCaskill was peppered with questions about health care for veterans, seniors and illegal immigrants and provisions funding abortions. One man was arrested after allegedly taking and ripping a sign from a woman that showed a picture of Rosa Parks sitting on a bus with the words, "First Lady of Civil Rights."
Someone shouted out that they didn't trust McCaskill.
"Beg your pardon ... you don't trust me?" McCaskill said. "I don't know what else I can do."
Specter said that in a long life in politics he hadn't seen anything like what he witnessed Tuesday and at a town hall last weekend that turned even uglier.
"There is more anger in America today than at any time I can remember," Specter said.
___
Associated Press writers Ben Evans in Washington and Sheila Ellis in Hillsboro, Mo., contributed to this report.

Neezar
08-12-2009, 04:47 AM
It's only going to get worse.

NateR
08-12-2009, 05:26 AM
It's only going to get worse.

Yes, especially among the senior citizens who would find themselves suddenly denied care and asked to go and politely die in a corner somewhere for the "good of the country."

Those people have EVERYTHING to lose if Obama gets his way.

Neezar
08-12-2009, 10:40 AM
Yes, especially among the senior citizens who would find themselves suddenly denied care and asked to go and politely die in a corner somewhere for the "good of the country."

Those people have EVERYTHING to lose if Obama gets his way.

Here is what I don't get, I heard a snippet of his speech yesterday where he stated that insurance companies ration out health care. He said that they get to pick and choose who needs what and whether they pay for it. He said it like it was the worse thing ever. But somehow he thinks the government will do a better job at picking and choosing these things for you. :blink: At least the insurance companies hire actual medical staff to help in making these decisions. The government is using politicians. And their 'medical' person is a woman who hasn't practiced in 15 years, and then it was only teaching. And most medical people will tell you that teaching and practicing are two totally different spectrums.

TexasRN
08-12-2009, 11:31 AM
Here is what I don't get, I heard a snippet of his speech yesterday where he stated that insurance companies ration out health care. He said that they get to pick and choose who needs what and whether they pay for it. He said it like it was the worse thing ever. But somehow he thinks the government will do a better job at picking and choosing these things for you. :blink: At least the insurance companies hire actual medical staff to help in making these decisions. The government is using politicians. And their 'medical' person is a woman who hasn't practiced in 15 years, and then it was only teaching. And most medical people will tell you that teaching and practicing are two totally different spectrums.


Absolutely ture.

Also, I work in a high risk obstetrics office. I want to know if the govt plan will eventually get to the point where they tell a woman that her baby has too many anomalies to live and force an abortion on her by refusing to pay for her care at all or the babies care after delivery for the NICU admission. If they will have a meeting to discuss end of life for seniors, will they do this as well for an infant or "fetus"?



~Amy

rockdawg21
08-12-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't think this matters whether you're Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, etc., nobody is going to be in favor of this stupid idea.

NateR
08-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Well, the liberal media spin is already in effect. That article has renamed with a new title claiming that these protests against Obama Deathcare are "not representative of America." :rolleyes:

huan
08-12-2009, 02:58 PM
Coincidence that Obama's budget planned a resurrection of the death tax in 2010? Life expectancy for the elderly dropping coupled with a 55% estate tax. How convenient for the federal government...

Tyburn
08-12-2009, 10:57 PM
Coincidence that Obama's budget planned a resurrection of the death tax in 2010? Life expectancy for the elderly dropping coupled with a 55% estate tax. How convenient for the federal government...
Rather....:ninja:

Vizion
08-14-2009, 02:54 PM
Seniors are a HUGE swing vote for the dems...too bad for Obama in 2012.

Buzzard
08-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Too bad they can't get their point across without resorting to swastika painting vandalism and disrupting meetings.

Which do you think would be better for the uninsured, staying uninsured or having some type of insurance with a universal plan?

Calling it a death plan already shows a bias and that you wouldn't accept it no matter how good it could be. How come most people seem to be ok with having their taxes go to public education, maintaining public parks, medicare, medicaid, road maintenance etc. but are so against the opportunity for all citizens to have some form of health insurance?

Do any of you have a better idea regarding health care?

Bonnie
08-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Seniors are a HUGE swing vote for the dems...too bad for Obama in 2012.

I'm hoping...

Also for members of Congress when they're up for re-election for trashing Americans (mainly senior citizens) for showing up at these town hall meetings and actually voicing how upset they are with this bill.

Did anyone see the news story where ACORN bused in people to a town hall meeting. It was a "first come first in" so people who actually lived there couldn't get in to the meeting. And, I'm sure they're cherrypicking who gets in to Obama's televised town hall meetings...

From Maureen Dowd's article:

Instead of a multicultural tableau of beaming young idealists on screen, we see ugly scenes of mostly older and white malcontents, disrupting forums where others have come to actually learn something. Instead of hope, we get swastikas, death threats and T-shirts proclaiming “Proud Member of the Mob.”

Exactly who does she think is worried about health care?--these "beaming young idealists" or older folks with real health issues on fixed incomes.

jason2130
08-14-2009, 08:01 PM
i dont know all the details of it but the parts i have heard made Congressman Lee Terrys plan not sound to bad, which only extended the health plan the congressman are currently on to people without health insurance if they want it, it was cheaper and the framework is already in place, plus the people who have insurance and are happy with it can keep it

if thats truly all it is and as simple as they said then it dont sound to bad, but other than the couple of times i seen it on the news, and read about it i dont know much about it

again, i dont know much about it, i want to make this clear before someone jumps in with some detail i didnt know about like "thats the plan that calls for killing 80% of the elderly you idiot" :laugh:

NateR
08-14-2009, 09:55 PM
Too bad they can't get their point across without resorting to swastika painting vandalism and disrupting meetings.

Yeah, those anti-Bush, Iraq War protests disgusted me, too. :wink:

Which do you think would be better for the uninsured, staying uninsured or having some type of insurance with a universal plan?

Calling it a death plan already shows a bias and that you wouldn't accept it no matter how good it could be. How come most people seem to be ok with having their taxes go to public education, maintaining public parks, medicare, medicaid, road maintenance etc. but are so against the opportunity for all citizens to have some form of health insurance?

Do any of you have a better idea regarding health care?

The simple fact is that we have the best healthcare system in the world in terms of quality and accessibility. What needs to be done is to reform the insurance companies, not to force everyone onto the flawed insurance-based system that we have.

Insurance companies drive prices way up. Get rid of the insurance companies and you force costs to go down, which makes healthcare cheaper for EVERYONE, not just the insured.

Obama's plan fails because it will force millions to lose their current coverage and still leave millions uninsured.

I still maintain that the United States has survived over 200 years without any sort of nationalized healthcare. In fact, we haven't just survived, we've prospered into the most powerful nation in the world. Thus there is no reason to believe that we suddenly need socialized medicine now.

Buzzard
08-14-2009, 10:04 PM
Yeah, those anti-Bush, Iraq War protests disgusted me, too. :wink:

If those protesters used vandalism and disruption of town hall meetings, I'll agree.


The simple fact is that we have the best healthcare system in the world in terms of quality and accessibility. What needs to be done is to reform the insurance companies, not to force everyone onto the flawed insurance-based system that we have.

Not according to what I have read. A couple of hits on that topic from google

http://www.ashp.org/import/News/HealthSystemPharmacyNews/newsarticle.aspx?id=2349

http://news.healingwell.com/index.php?p=news1&id=531962

Insurance companies drive prices way up. Get rid of the insurance companies and you force costs to go down, which makes healthcare cheaper for EVERYONE, not just the insured.

Obama's plan fails because it will force millions to lose their current coverage and still leave millions uninsured.

Do you have a source for that?

I still maintain that the United States has survived over 200 years without any sort of nationalized healthcare. In fact, we haven't just survived, we've prospered into the most powerful nation in the world. Thus there is no reason to believe that we suddenly need socialized medicine now.

Are you ok with the socialized medicare, medicaid, public park upkeep etc.?

KENTUCKYREDBONE
08-15-2009, 06:29 PM
While our health care system ain't perfect I don't see the need to make it worse!

Neezar
08-16-2009, 04:38 AM
Too bad they can't get their point across without resorting to swastika painting vandalism and disrupting meetings.

Which do you think would be better for the uninsured, staying uninsured or having some type of insurance with a universal plan?

Calling it a death plan already shows a bias and that you wouldn't accept it no matter how good it could be. How come most people seem to be ok with having their taxes go to public education, maintaining public parks, medicare, medicaid, road maintenance etc. but are so against the opportunity for all citizens to have some form of health insurance?

Do any of you have a better idea regarding health care?

If this bill was only about getting the uninsured insured then I would be more willing to accept it. (Although I think there are much better ways to accomplish this with less money and better care.) But that isn't what this bill is about. This bill is about healthcare reform, changing the powers from private insurance companies over to the government. Then it will be ran just as medicare is. Do you think that medicare provides premium healthcare for it's clients? At least with private insurance companies you have some sort of competition to keep each other in check.

I do not believe it is a good idea to have the government involved in the process of making the decisions about which healthcare to provide.

The government hasn't been able to handle medicare properly. Why in the world would anyone think they can handle it for everyone?

Neezar
08-16-2009, 04:43 AM
A healthy young person gets cancer or has a horrible accident and racks up a ton of medical bills. Do I think they should lose their house, car, or lose everything they have to pay those bills? Absolutely NOT!

Do I think we should/could have a program to help this person pay these medical bills? Of course.

Do I think the government should be able to dictate which medical services this person can recieve and which they can't? Hell NO!

Neezar
08-16-2009, 04:49 AM
We already have free health care for all kids under 18 and the elderly. It is only the working age that should be considered.

If your concern is truly someone who can't afford insurance and gets in a bad situation and racks up huge medical bills or needs an expensive treatment then set up a government fund. The person could file for Medical Aid just like they file for unemployment when not working, or apply for temporary food stamps, or like they give the farmers when their harvest is destroyed by natural disaster. The government wants all this criteria met for medical coverage and this would help provide them with it when this was used on a pre-apply basis. If you knew you needed some type of major medical procedure then you can pre-apply for assistance.

This way only the ones in need actually use the funds.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
08-16-2009, 06:29 AM
We already have free health care for all kids under 18 and the elderly. It is only the working age that should be considered.

If your concern is truly someone who can't afford insurance and gets in a bad situation and racks up huge medical bills or needs an expensive treatment then set up a government fund. The person could file for Medical Aid just like they file for unemployment when not working, or apply for temporary food stamps, or like they give the farmers when their harvest is destroyed by natural disaster. The government wants all this criteria met for medical coverage and this would help provide them with it when this was used on a pre-apply basis. If you knew you needed some type of major medical procedure then you can pre-apply for assistance.

This way only the ones in need actually use the funds.


That makes alot more since than whats being proposed now! Another good reason to be against it is its written in Gibberish!