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Play The Man
07-30-2009, 05:21 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE56S3ZJ20090729
Organic food has no nutritional or health benefits over ordinary food, according to a major study published Wednesday.

Researchers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine said consumers were paying higher prices for organic food because of its perceived health benefits, creating a global organic market worth an estimated $48 billion in 2007.

A systematic review of 162 scientific papers published in the scientific literature over the last 50 years, however, found there was no significant difference.

"A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance," said Alan Dangour, one of the report's authors.

"Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority."

atomdanger
07-30-2009, 05:45 AM
Well, this study was done in London.

England doesn't allow the same chemicals in their food that the US does.
So, sort of irrelevant to us here in the states.

Different countries have different laws on what we can do to our food.
We allow over 3000 food additives.

Play The Man
07-30-2009, 05:50 AM
Well, this study was done in London.

England doesn't allow the same chemicals in their food that the US does.
So, sort of irrelevant to us here in the states.

Different countries have different laws on what we can do to our food.
We allow over 3000 food additives.

It is difficult to tell from this news story if they considered the effect of chemicals (pesticides). As best I can tell, they were just comparing the level of vitamins, minerals and such.

que
07-30-2009, 05:57 AM
yea, according to the article they were simply comparing nutrient values.

obviously organic food isn't going to have more nutrients than inorganic food in alot of cases. they are able to pump nutrients into inorganic food easily.

but while inorganic food may have the same amount of nutrients.... inorganic food also contains thousands of chemicals which are not good for your body, simple as that.

atomdanger
07-30-2009, 06:03 AM
yea, according to the article they were simply comparing nutrient values.

obviously organic food isn't going to have more nutrients than inorganic food in alot of cases. they are able to pump nutrients into inorganic food easily.

but while inorganic food may have the same amount of nutrients.... inorganic food also contains thousands of chemicals which are not good for your body, simple as that.

Exactly.
I feel like its very close to lying to use the term "Not healthier"

Hughes_GOAT
07-30-2009, 07:23 AM
BS is what that study is.

MattHughesRocks
07-30-2009, 07:43 AM
I think Ronald McDonald wrote it :laugh:

Hughes_GOAT
07-30-2009, 08:02 AM
I think Ronald McDonald wrote it :laugh:
Trader Joes didn't.

MattHughesRocks
07-30-2009, 08:10 AM
I was there yesterday buying organic sweet corn.

Trader Joes didn't.

Hughes_GOAT
07-30-2009, 10:01 AM
I was there yesterday buying organic sweet corn.
white?

MattHughesRocks
07-30-2009, 06:52 PM
I don't remember now. I bought some other things to.I spent $75.00 and that's with NO wine :laugh:


white?

rearnakedchoke
07-30-2009, 07:00 PM
i don't buy organic here in canada, cuz i don't think they have the laws in place to truly define what organic means .. so until they do, i am eating pesticides ...

Spiritwalker
07-31-2009, 03:44 AM
Organic food has no nutritional or health benefits over ordinary food, according to a major study published Wednesday.

I find it very odd that Organic Food is the one that is considered "not ordinary".:wink:

mikthehick
07-31-2009, 03:35 PM
Organic food is the biggest scam ever introduced to the global population, and what's more, you are only paying for the crazy packaging that says "organic".

Case in point, and I should have taken a picture, I was at Kroger (a grocery store here in VA) the other day, and I saw a 'cheap bin' in the corner of the store.

Being frugal as I usually am (or money conscious, cheap, whichever you want to label it as), I saw in there some "organic" shampoo, and it said on the bottom, I kid you not, "96.3% Organic". How the heck did they come up with that number??!!

Organic food is supposed to be a healthier alternative and encourages "sustainable" agriculture. This confuses me, because with free range animals, you are using more land, getting less food, and causing more people to be hungry (all over the world, not just in developing nations).

The math just doesn't add up here. So, Whole Foods can keep their food, I'll just keep enjoying my pesticides from my waxed, washed apples and tap water.

That's another thing, tap water...

My friends who drank bottled water growing up have cavities, and to date (knock on wood), I've been drinking tap since childhood and I've got no cavities.....

Just take everything you hear with a grain of salt and do your research. I would be broke right now if I bought my food from 'healthy alternative, and organic" stores....:rolleyes:

rockdawg21
07-31-2009, 03:39 PM
Organic food is the biggest scam ever introduced to the global population, and what's more, you are only paying for the crazy packaging that says "organic".

Case in point, and I should have taken a picture, I was at Kroger (a grocery store here in VA) the other day, and I saw a 'cheap bin' in the corner of the store.

Being frugal as I usually am (or money conscious, cheap, whichever you want to label it as), I saw in there some "organic" shampoo, and it said on the bottom, I kid you not, "96.3% Organic". How the heck did they come up with that number??!!

Organic food is supposed to be a healthier alternative and encourages "sustainable" agriculture. This confuses me, because with free range animals, you are using more land, getting less food, and causing more people to be hungry (all over the world, not just in developing nations).

The math just doesn't add up here. So, Whole Foods can keep their food, I'll just keep enjoying my pesticides from my waxed, washed apples and tap water.

That's another thing, tap water...

My friends who drank bottled water growing up have cavities, and to date (knock on wood), I've been drinking tap since childhood and I've got no cavities.....

Just take everything you hear with a grain of salt and do your research. I would be broke right now if I bought my food from 'healthy alternative, and organic" stores....:rolleyes:
This

The funniest thing I've seen regarding organic foods is at CostCo. They have a product there called "Organic Toaster Pastries", in other words, it's an organic Pop-Tart. Yeah, I'm sure it's SOOOOOOOOO much more healthy than a regular toaster pastry made by Pop-Tart. How stupid.

mikthehick
07-31-2009, 03:50 PM
This

The funniest thing I've seen regarding organic foods is at CostCo. They have a product there called "Organic Toaster Pastries", in other words, it's an organic Pop-Tart. Yeah, I'm sure it's SOOOOOOOOO much more healthy than a regular toaster pastry made by Pop-Tart. How stupid.

SERIOUSLY!!!

Back in college, I majored in Environmental Science, yall can laugh all you want, make all the hippie jokes you want, but I was concentrating on subsurface seismologic events and the geochemical forces that dictate the tectonic movement of plates...and yes I turned down a job offer to work in Alaska because my family is too important :)

Anyway, I had every liberal, democratic college student at UVA question my intentions all the time. How could I not support women's rights...how could i refuse to shop for 'sustainable' agriculture....how could I concentrate in architecture just because I was interested....

These judgments were ridiculous, especially since I don't believe in evolution. It just goes to show that the same people who want "change and progress" are just as narrow minded as the usual person.

I'm not saying that I'm not judgmental, because I am, and I'm extremely far away from perfect, but we need to be aware.

This is why reading all the information you can get on a subject is so crucial. There are so many lies out there, that even daily discernment is becoming difficult for people....it's really sad.

rockdawg21
07-31-2009, 05:09 PM
SERIOUSLY!!!

Back in college, I majored in Environmental Science, yall can laugh all you want, make all the hippie jokes you want, but I was concentrating on subsurface seismologic events and the geochemical forces that dictate the tectonic movement of plates...and yes I turned down a job offer to work in Alaska because my family is too important :)

Anyway, I had every liberal, democratic college student at UVA question my intentions all the time. How could I not support women's rights...how could i refuse to shop for 'sustainable' agriculture....how could I concentrate in architecture just because I was interested....

These judgments were ridiculous, especially since I don't believe in evolution. It just goes to show that the same people who want "change and progress" are just as narrow minded as the usual person.

I'm not saying that I'm not judgmental, because I am, and I'm extremely far away from perfect, but we need to be aware.

This is why reading all the information you can get on a subject is so crucial. There are so many lies out there, that even daily discernment is becoming difficult for people....it's really sad.
All this crap came from the Organic Foods Production Act of 1990. According to the USDA, "Organic production is not simply the avoidance of conventional chemical inputs, nor is it the substitution of natural inputs for synthetic ones. Organic farmers apply techniques first used thousands of years ago, such as crop rotations and the use of composted animal manures and green manure crops, in ways that are economically sustainable in today's world. In organic production, overall system health is emphasized, and the interaction of management practices is the primary concern. Organic producers implement a wide range of strategies to develop and maintain biological diversity and replenish soil fertility. Interpretation of this statement means they apply everything thereafter the bold, yet, it can still contain those "harmful chemicals". Basically, they can go ahead and spray the crops with the "harmful chemicals" then as long as the farmer applies the proper crop rotations and the use of animal manure, then it's "organic". How is that ANY different than what farmers already do?
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/ofp/ofp.shtml

Orgranic farming & food is a huge hoax designed to make more money. I wonder how much government tax is thrown on the organic farmers. To me, that's the only thing that would explain the higher costs versus traditional methods.

mikthehick
07-31-2009, 07:56 PM
Isn't that funny how quickly the truth comes out after the wool is pulled away from our eyes?

Unfathomable.

All this crap came from the Organic Foods Production Act of 1990. According to the USDA, "Organic production is not simply the avoidance of conventional chemical inputs, nor is it the substitution of natural inputs for synthetic ones. Organic farmers apply techniques first used thousands of years ago, such as crop rotations and the use of composted animal manures and green manure crops, in ways that are economically sustainable in today's world. In organic production, overall system health is emphasized, and the interaction of management practices is the primary concern. Organic producers implement a wide range of strategies to develop and maintain biological diversity and replenish soil fertility. Interpretation of this statement means they apply everything thereafter the bold, yet, it can still contain those "harmful chemicals". Basically, they can go ahead and spray the crops with the "harmful chemicals" then as long as the farmer applies the proper crop rotations and the use of animal manure, then it's "organic". How is that ANY different than what farmers already do?
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/ofp/ofp.shtml

Orgranic farming & food is a huge hoax designed to make more money. I wonder how much government tax is thrown on the organic farmers. To me, that's the only thing that would explain the higher costs versus traditional methods.

Play The Man
07-31-2009, 08:12 PM
I don't buy organic food. I have never studied the issue; however, I am a cheapskate. Once, I was given an organic energy bar and perused the ingredients. It mentioned "Organic evaporated Cane juice". What exactly is the difference between that and sugar?

rockdawg21
07-31-2009, 10:28 PM
I don't buy organic food. I have never studied the issue; however, I am a cheapskate. Once, I was given an organic energy bar and perused the ingredients. It mentioned "Organic evaporated Cane juice". What exactly is the difference between that and sugar?
Nothing, it's a government hoax.

Spiritwalker
08-01-2009, 02:52 AM
Well I will say this about "organic"...

When I was in Colombia last year.. I say a banana and and apple.. they were much smaller than what we have here in the states.. the banana was about half the size.. and the apple was about the size of a good sized plum.. and they were the best tasting fruit I ever had...

rockdawg21
08-01-2009, 06:39 AM
Well I will say this about "organic"...

When I was in Colombia last year.. I say a banana and and apple.. they were much smaller than what we have here in the states.. the banana was about half the size.. and the apple was about the size of a good sized plum.. and they were the best tasting fruit I ever had...
Yeah, and...?

I know more than 500 varieties of apples, do you think they're all the exact same size, color, weight, smell, texture, etc?

The same argument can be applied to bananas.

So what does that mean? It means you didn't eat red delicious apple or a Chiquita banana.

Also, how do you know they were "organic"? Did you see the crops rotated and fertilized with manure? Oh, they were probably also sprayed with pesticides as organic doesn't mean they are NOT sprayed with "harmful chemicals." It's a hoax.

Spiritwalker
08-01-2009, 04:10 PM
Well since you seem to want to argue the point...

Yes I do know that there are different varieties of fruits in the world.. I never said that there wasn't. But when a common apple in one place is much smaller than a typical apple in another place.. I wonder.

I KNOW that they were free of pesticides and such.. cause I was eating them from a friends backyard...and when I asked "how do you grow these so small??" the look on his face was "huh?".. Then when he came here.. he couldn't believe that a Washington Red was a real apple..

I have been fortunate enough to meet people "directly off the boat/plane".. and I have heard many times... "It's so big in America".. and until I went to abroad just a little.. I never knew what was meant by that.. Even a common car.. a cheapo.. no extras.. is still larger than a common car in Colombia or India.

We (as a people), have big cars, big homes, are big ourselves... and do not even realize how great we have it..

Ever hear the old saying.. "you are what you eat"..


In the states we fill our food with so much crap.. to make it look better and bigger.. over the years we have lost the taste.. man the taste of the fruits and vegetables.. was amazing.

It's the same with eggs, chickens, avocados, it's so much of the junk that we put into them.

I am looking forward to going to Okinawa this year, early next... and I can't wait to compare things between here and there.

What you call hoax.. I see as a byproduct of cause and effect.

Go to a farm.. take a picture of you beside a milking cow.... then go over seas.. and take a picture of you and a milking cow there..

And while labeled organic may not be truly organic due to many reasons.. I do find that it tastes better, and seem more natural when compared to the rest of the world.



Yeah, and...?

I know more than 500 varieties of apples, do you think they're all the exact same size, color, weight, smell, texture, etc?

The same argument can be applied to bananas.

So what does that mean? It means you didn't eat red delicious apple or a Chiquita banana.

Also, how do you know they were "organic"? Did you see the crops rotated and fertilized with manure? Oh, they were probably also sprayed with pesticides as organic doesn't mean they are NOT sprayed with "harmful chemicals." It's a hoax.

Play The Man
08-01-2009, 08:44 PM
Cool Avatar, SpiritWalker!:cool:

Josh
08-01-2009, 09:03 PM
Well since you seem to want to argue the point...

Yes I do know that there are different varieties of fruits in the world.. I never said that there wasn't. But when a common apple in one place is much smaller than a typical apple in another place.. I wonder.

I KNOW that they were free of pesticides and such.. cause I was eating them from a friends backyard...and when I asked "how do you grow these so small??" the look on his face was "huh?".. Then when he came here.. he couldn't believe that a Washington Red was a real apple..

I have been fortunate enough to meet people "directly off the boat/plane".. and I have heard many times... "It's so big in America".. and until I went to abroad just a little.. I never knew what was meant by that.. Even a common car.. a cheapo.. no extras.. is still larger than a common car in Colombia or India.

We (as a people), have big cars, big homes, are big ourselves... and do not even realize how great we have it..

Ever hear the old saying.. "you are what you eat"..


In the states we fill our food with so much crap.. to make it look better and bigger.. over the years we have lost the taste.. man the taste of the fruits and vegetables.. was amazing.

It's the same with eggs, chickens, avocados, it's so much of the junk that we put into them.

I am looking forward to going to Okinawa this year, early next... and I can't wait to compare things between here and there.

What you call hoax.. I see as a byproduct of cause and effect.

Go to a farm.. take a picture of you beside a milking cow.... then go over seas.. and take a picture of you and a milking cow there..

And while labeled organic may not be truly organic due to many reasons.. I do find that it tastes better, and seem more natural when compared to the rest of the world.
I'm with you. My wife works in a yuppie grocery store and I had a complete aversion to organic foods but then I started trying them and now I almost always think they taste much better. Then there is the whole GMO argument which is a little on the conspiracy side so it's probably not worth getting into.

rockdawg21
08-01-2009, 10:25 PM
Well since you seem to want to argue the point...

Yes I do know that there are different varieties of fruits in the world.. I never said that there wasn't. But when a common apple in one place is much smaller than a typical apple in another place.. I wonder.

I KNOW that they were free of pesticides and such.. cause I was eating them from a friends backyard...and when I asked "how do you grow these so small??" the look on his face was "huh?".. Then when he came here.. he couldn't believe that a Washington Red was a real apple..

I have been fortunate enough to meet people "directly off the boat/plane".. and I have heard many times... "It's so big in America".. and until I went to abroad just a little.. I never knew what was meant by that.. Even a common car.. a cheapo.. no extras.. is still larger than a common car in Colombia or India.

We (as a people), have big cars, big homes, are big ourselves... and do not even realize how great we have it..

Ever hear the old saying.. "you are what you eat"..


In the states we fill our food with so much crap.. to make it look better and bigger.. over the years we have lost the taste.. man the taste of the fruits and vegetables.. was amazing.

It's the same with eggs, chickens, avocados, it's so much of the junk that we put into them.

I am looking forward to going to Okinawa this year, early next... and I can't wait to compare things between here and there.

What you call hoax.. I see as a byproduct of cause and effect.

Go to a farm.. take a picture of you beside a milking cow.... then go over seas.. and take a picture of you and a milking cow there..

And while labeled organic may not be truly organic due to many reasons.. I do find that it tastes better, and seem more natural when compared to the rest of the world.
My wife's from the Philippines and it's a very large banana/plantain producing country. She says the bananas here taste as good. She's also seen tons of varieties as well. Same with avocados, but I think they're a different variety here than they are from here, not sure about that. I do know the mangoes we've found in the stores are different. She usually doesn't like nuts that come from our stores - any nuts cooked in oil just aren't appealing to her, which is good because I prefer to cook the raw ones as well or buy dry roasted (she does like dry roasted on some nuts). I do admit, I buy organic cashews from tierrafarm.com, but that's simply because I can't find any dry roasted cashews that taste good and I don't eat nuts cooked in oils, lol

The strangest thing I'd heard her say about our food is that our chickens are so small and so are the eggs. We eat rotisserie chicken pretty regularly and she's always saying they're small. I eat eggs every day and she said our "X-Large" eggs are a small in the Philippines. I didn't notice any differences in the sizes of the chicken I ate there versus here, but I also wasn't paying attention, I just ate. I did notice hogs in the Philippines are WAY bigger than the hogs I've seen in the U.S. But, hogs are a staple food there, whereas they aren't in the U.S. People here eat pork, but not nearly as often as they do in the Philippines. Of course, I don't know about the breed of the hogs vs. the ones here.

Another thing to consider that I just thought of is the fruit and animals you see in our stores are larger because the farmers & ranchers are making money. They make the animals bigger & stronger, whether they're "steroid injected" or whatever people want to say, they're still probably much better fed. Also, farmers burn the fields, rotate, water, etc. to make sure plants are supplied the best nutrients. I doubt your friend does anything like that for his trees. Makes sense they would be smaller if it's for personal use rather than trying to get the biggest apples possible since they are paid by the pound. Were your friend's apples also Washington Red? How much sunlight, water, etc. does your friend get vs. where the apples are grown here in the U.S.? Is the region where your friend grows his apples in the optimal region for growing those types of apples vs. the Washington Reds? I know you understand this stuff, just jogging the brain a bit :)

I've never noticed any difference in flavor from anything purchased at Whole Foods versus HEB (the big grocery chain in Texas). If it makes you feel better or makes you think it tastes better, then that's good :)