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Chris Wescott
07-28-2009, 02:37 PM
I need help understanding. Let me start by saying my mind is open, but I deal in fact.

This Gates fella in Boston...

Seeing a black guy prying open a door is suspicious. Frankly anyone breaking into a house is suspicious.

His refusing to tell the cops his name is suspicious.

Did the cops profile him? Who cares? His behavior was suspicous plain and simple.

Am I wrong?

Vizion
07-28-2009, 03:09 PM
The cops acted "stupidly" .

That kinda says it all.:Whistle:

Crisco
07-28-2009, 03:33 PM
don't get me started on this nonsense.

This guy is a more educated Al Sharpton that is all.

I'm glad the cop refused to apologize it's a victory for fair and equal race relations that he refused to bow down.

Bonnie
07-28-2009, 04:14 PM
The cop was doing his job. Prof. Gates was being an @$$ and inflamed the situation to a point where they felt they finally had to arrest him. Sounds like they (cops) were just trying to verify he was who he said he was, the homeowner, and he had to turn it into racial profiling and that the cop was a rogue cop. From what I understand it was one of his neighbors who made the call to 911 saying someone was breaking into his house.

As for the president, he should have made "no comment"....period!!!

County Mike
07-28-2009, 04:30 PM
I was wondering when this topic would come up.

Police respond to a burglary call and find this guy inside the house.
He refuses to provide identification - calling the cop a racist instead.
Once he finally does prove that he's the homeowner, the cops start to leave.
He follows them, berating them the whole time about being racist.
Finally, the cop warns him that he's being disorderly and if he doesn't stop, he'll be arrested.
He doesn't stop. He's arrested.
Obama makes a comment about the cop acting stupidly for arresting the homeowner.
Cop refuses to apologize. He was doing his job.
Turns out, the cop is also the instructor for racial sensitivity training and has been for about 9 years.

He did no wrong. He simply questioned a suspect and then arrested a disorderly person. If the professor had just shown ID when first questioned it would have been a non-issue.

rearnakedchoke
07-28-2009, 05:38 PM
The cop shoulda tased him.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
07-28-2009, 05:41 PM
The cop was doing his job. Prof. Gates was being an @$$ and inflamed the situation to a point where they felt they finally had to arrest him. Sounds like they (cops) were just trying to verify he was who he said he was, the homeowner, and he had to turn it into racial profiling and that the cop was a rogue cop. From what I understand it was one of his neighbors who made the call to 911 saying someone was breaking into his house.

As for the president, he should have made "no comment"....period!!!

That's pretty much my understanding of the matter! Sounds to me like the big shot professor was looking for trouble!

Play The Man
07-28-2009, 08:13 PM
I was wondering when this topic would come up.

I started a thread in the "Woodshed" titled "He Said/V.I.P. Said" but it didn't take off; probably because the thread title wasn't clear about the subject matter. The post links to an excellent column by Mark Steyn about the Gates/Cambridge Cop incident.

I find it ironic that Obama has spent his first 6 months in office going from country to country apologizing for the past actions of America; yet, on a personal level, he will not publicly apologize to a police officer for bad-mouthing his actions before he had the facts. I find it ironic that Obama is quick to state that this police officer "acted stupidly", yet he will not criticize the actions of foreign leaders like Castro, Chavez, etc. Additionally, I find it ironic, that the black President of the United States, the black Governor of Massachusetts, the black mayor and a black Harvard professor all are attacking America for being racist; if America is so racist, how did they get into their positions of power, being that blacks make up only about 12-13% of the population?

Crisco
07-28-2009, 08:44 PM
I started a thread in the "Woodshed" titled "He Said/V.I.P. Said" but it didn't take off; probably because the thread title wasn't clear about the subject matter. The post links to an excellent column by Mark Steyn about the Gates/Cambridge Cop incident.

I find it ironic that Obama has spent his first 6 months in office going from country to country apologizing for the past actions of America; yet, on a personal level, he will not publicly apologize to a police officer for bad-mouthing his actions before he had the facts. I find it ironic that Obama is quick to state that this police officer "acted stupidly", yet he will not criticize the actions of foreign leaders like Castro, Chavez, etc. Additionally, I find it ironic, that the black President of the United States, the black Governor of Massachusetts, the black mayor and a black Harvard professor all are attacking America for being racist; if America is so racist, how did they get into their positions of power, being that blacks make up only about 12-13% of the population?

Well, America is very racist 96% of black voters voted for Obama and on ly about 1 in 9 know his political stances.

So yes they are correct America is very racist.

Play The Man
07-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Well, America is very racist 96% of black voters voted for Obama and on ly about 1 in 9 know his political stances.

So yes they are correct America is very racist.

Touche'!

atomdanger
07-28-2009, 10:35 PM
I was wondering when this topic would come up.

Police respond to a burglary call and find this guy inside the house.
He refuses to provide identification - calling the cop a racist instead.
Once he finally does prove that he's the homeowner, the cops start to leave.
He follows them, berating them the whole time about being racist.
Finally, the cop warns him that he's being disorderly and if he doesn't stop, he'll be arrested.
He doesn't stop. He's arrested.
Obama makes a comment about the cop acting stupidly for arresting the homeowner.
Cop refuses to apologize. He was doing his job.
Turns out, the cop is also the instructor for racial sensitivity training and has been for about 9 years.

He did no wrong. He simply questioned a suspect and then arrested a disorderly person. If the professor had just shown ID when first questioned it would have been a non-issue.


If your description is accurate I don't see a single problem.
Other than Obama commenting.

Bonnie
07-28-2009, 11:45 PM
That's pretty much my understanding of the matter! Sounds to me like the big shot professor was looking for trouble!

I wonder how he would have acted if it had been a black police officer handling the situation in the same manner the white cop did. And, most puzzling, the neighbor, why didn't he/she recognize Prof. Gates?

It was the neighbor that "racially profiled" Gates.:wink: I think Gates should hold a ten-million man march on his neighbor's lawn. That'll teach him to call 911 again...

County Mike
07-29-2009, 12:32 AM
I wonder how he would have acted if it had been a black police officer handling the situation in the same manner the white cop did. And, most puzzling, the neighbor, why didn't he/she recognize Prof. Gates?

It was the neighbor that "racially profiled" Gates.:wink: I think Gates should hold a ten-million man march on his neighbor's lawn. That'll teach him to call 911 again...

Gates either locked himself out or was just having trouble getting his door open. The neighbor called police because Gates was trying to force his way in, banging his shoulder against the door. Apparently, the neighbor didn't recognize him. Just saw a man trying to break in.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 12:33 AM
I wonder how he would have acted if it had been a black police officer handling the situation in the same manner the white cop did. And, most puzzling, the neighbor, why didn't he/she recognize Prof. Gates?

It was the neighbor that "racially profiled" Gates.:wink: I think Gates should hold a ten-million man march on his neighbor's lawn. That'll teach him to call 911 again...

I saw a segment on cable news with an interview with the lawyer of the woman that called the police (yes, she has been so intimidated by the experience that she hired a lawyer to speak for her). The woman that called the police never mentioned the race of the two men entering the home. The dispatcher asked the caller about race and she replied that she thought that one was Hispanic and couldn't tell the race of the other man (Gates) because her view was obstructed. (As a point of clarification, the neighbor that first spotted the "break-in" was elderly and didn't have a cell phone; she asked a passer-by to call on her cellphone). A Hispanic and a Black police officer arrived part-way into the incident and they are supporting the White officer's story. The available police transcripts support the officer, as well. I think the thing that precipitated the arrest was when Gates responded to the officer's request to speak outside on the porch with the reply: "Ya', I'll speak to your Mama outside." All the Professor had to do was pull out his wallet and hand over his driver's license with his address on it. Gates escalated the whole incident. A policeman shouldn't have to put up with insults to his mother.

Bonnie
07-29-2009, 12:37 AM
Gates either locked himself out or was just having trouble getting his door open. The neighbor called police because Gates was trying to force his way in, banging his shoulder against the door. Apparently, the neighbor didn't recognize him. Just saw a man trying to break in.

Got it, thanks! I was being sarcastic about the other stuff. I think the lady was trying to do a good thing for neighbor Gates.

Bonnie
07-29-2009, 12:49 AM
I saw a segment on cable news with an interview with the lawyer of the woman that called the police (yes, she has been so intimidated by the experience that she hired a lawyer to speak for her). The woman that called the police never mentioned the race of the two men entering the home. The dispatcher asked the caller about race and she replied that she thought that one was Hispanic and couldn't tell the race of the other man (Gates) because her view was obstructed. (As a point of clarification, the neighbor that first spotted the "break-in" was elderly and didn't have a cell phone; she asked a passer-by to call on her cellphone). A Hispanic and a Black police officer arrived part-way into the incident and they are supporting the White officer's story. The available police transcripts support the officer, as well. I think the thing that precipitated the arrest was when Gates responded to the officer's request to speak outside on the porch with the reply: "Ya', I'll speak to your Mama outside." All the Professor had to do was pull out his wallet and hand over his driver's license with his address on it. Gates escalated the whole incident. A policeman shouldn't have to put up with insults to his mother.

Yeah, I've had the same thing where I called in to report something and the operator/dispatcher asked me the race of the person. They need a description to tell the cops responding who/what to look for.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 02:11 AM
I saw a segment on cable news with an interview with the lawyer of the woman that called the police (yes, she has been so intimidated by the experience that she hired a lawyer to speak for her). The woman that called the police never mentioned the race of the two men entering the home. The dispatcher asked the caller about race and she replied that she thought that one was Hispanic and couldn't tell the race of the other man (Gates) because her view was obstructed. (As a point of clarification, the neighbor that first spotted the "break-in" was elderly and didn't have a cell phone; she asked a passer-by to call on her cellphone). A Hispanic and a Black police officer arrived part-way into the incident and they are supporting the White officer's story. The available police transcripts support the officer, as well. I think the thing that precipitated the arrest was when Gates responded to the officer's request to speak outside on the porch with the reply: "Ya', I'll speak to your Mama outside." All the Professor had to do was pull out his wallet and hand over his driver's license with his address on it. Gates escalated the whole incident. A policeman shouldn't have to put up with insults to his mother.

If her view was obstructed as she says, how could she give accurate information as to someone trying to "force" or break their way into someones house? Anyway, thats not really the point I wanted to make:

Sure in hindsight, maybe the Gates acted a little foolishly and a little hot-headed, but I have yet to hear the full transcript from the police of the entire incident from gates and the officer. On ABC nightly news the other night, all i heard was a segment with the cop saying "the individual claims he lives here, but hes being un-cooperative, keep the cars coming"...or something to that effect.

I mean, not to make this a matter of race, because it shoudnt be....but who knows what gates' experiences have been with police in the past? I mean he probably lived through the civil rights movement where cops where known to be less than "fair" to african-americans........but putting all that side for a moment.....what if during their conversation, that COP really was being a jerk? I think we have all met those kind of cops....ones who just like to try and flex their muscle and act like the big bad boss....this site had like 30 page thread when that grandma got tased by some cop, and people thought he was probably acting all high and mighty.

So, not trying to pick sides, but maybe its not as cut and dry as it looks.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 02:31 AM
If her view was obstructed as she says, how could she give accurate information as to someone trying to "force" or break their way into someones house?The woman making the phone call and the woman that initially saw the "break-in" are two different people. The caller was told by an elderly neighbor of Gate's that she witnessed a "break-in". The caller was asked by the dispatcher in "real time" about the race of the suspects. At the moment he asked her (the caller, not the neighbor who had seen the "break-in"), she could not clearly see the skin tone of one of the men. Your point is entirely moot, however, because Gates told the police that he and his driver were trying to force the door open with a shoulder because the door was malfunctioning. It was an honest mistake by an alert neighbor and it could have been dealt with in less than one minute if Gates cooperated. If it happened to me, I probably would have had a good laugh about it - it would be a good story to tell.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 02:37 AM
The woman making the phone call and the woman that initially saw the "break-in" are two different people. The caller was told by an elderly neighbor of Gate's that she witnessed a "break-in". The caller was asked by the dispatcher in "real time" about the race of the suspects. At the moment he asked her (the caller, not the neighbor who had seen the "break-in"), she could not clearly see the skin tone of one of the men. Your point is entirely moot, however, because Gates told the police that he and his driver were trying to force the door open with a shoulder because the door was malfunctioning. It was an honest mistake by an alert neighbor and it could have been dealt with in less than one minute if Gates cooperated. If it happened to me, I probably would have had a good laugh about it - it would be a good story to tell.

My point is moot? Did you not read my post correctly or something? or did you just pick and choose what to read? Right after i commented on the "obstructed view" topic, i said that this was NOT really the point i wanted to make, and I then posted more things right after, to try and give another perspective to the story. The second part of my most occupied about 90% of what I was trying to get across.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 02:38 AM
Sure in hindsight, maybe the Gates acted a little foolishly and a little hot-headed, but I have yet to hear the full transcript from the police of the entire incident from gates and the officer. On ABC nightly news the other night, all i heard was a segment with the cop saying "the individual claims he lives here, but hes being un-cooperative, keep the cars coming"...or something to that effect.


I guess you are more cautious than President Obama, because before he heard a full transcript he said that the police officer "acted stupidly". He has yet to apologize. Acting "hot-headed" is called "disorderly conduct", especially when you insult the mother of the officer who has the discretion of whether to arrest you or not.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 02:42 AM
My point is moot? Did you not read my post correctly or something? or did you just pick and choose what to read? Right after i commented on the "obstructed view" topic, i said that this was NOT really the point i wanted to make, and I then posted more things right after, to try and give another perspective to the story. The second part of my most occupied about 90% of what I was trying to get across.

The response was to the text that was block quoted. That point is moot, as Gates admitted to behavior that would appear to an observer to be a "break-in" (although legal for him to do because it is his house). Gates himself does not contest that he tried to "shoulder" open the door. Ergo, your point is moot.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 02:50 AM
The response was to the text that was block quoted. That point is moot, as Gates admitted to behavior that would appear to an observer to be a "break-in" (although legal for him to do because it is his house). Gates himself does not contest that he tried to "shoulder" open the door. Ergo, your point is moot.

From Moot to Ergo? nice use of vocabulary. Well ok, maybe you think my point is moot, even though you have yet to discuss with me the rest of what I tried to say; you know about past experiences gates may have had with cops, and how there are cops who do like to try and flex their muslce and little etc etc etc but hey, we cant force people to engage in such debate.

Maybe my point is moot....but hey,thanks for sounding like a stuck up snob about it while cleverly trying to act slightly articulate.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 02:54 AM
I mean, not to make this a matter of race, because it shoudnt be....but who knows what gates' experiences have been with police in the past? I mean he probably lived through the civil rights movement where cops where known to be less than "fair" to african-americans

Gates made it a matter of race when he started yelling "Is This How You Treat A Black Man In America?" when he was asked to provide identification. Frankly, I don't care about Mr Gate's past experience. He doesn't get a "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free" card because he "lived through the civil rights movement". All he had to do was say: "I think there has been a mistake here, officer. I live here. Here is my driver's license, which, as you can see, has this address on it. I just returned from vacation and had trouble with a stuck door. Is there anything else I can do to clear this up for you?" It would have taken less than 30 seconds.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 03:09 AM
From Moot to Ergo? nice use of vocabulary. Well ok, maybe you think my point is moot, even though you have yet to discuss with me the rest of what I tried to say; you know about past experiences gates may have had with cops, and how there are cops who do like to try and flex their muslce and little etc etc etc but hey, we cant force people to engage in such debate.

Maybe my point is moot....but hey,thanks for sounding like a stuck up snob about it while cleverly trying to act slightly articulate.

Your post was long and is being responded to in pieces. Please be patient.

I have found that when people are losing an argument, they resort to ad hominem attacks. Don't you?

Exempli gratia:

From Moot to Ergo? nice use of vocabulary
thanks for sounding like a stuck up snob

I find it ironic that you are defending the actions of Gates, a Harvard professor, who yelled in a beat cop's face, "Don't You Know Who I am!!"; yet, you attack me a "stuck up snob" because I am arguing with you and defending the actions of a working-class beat cop. If anyone's actions are that of a "stuck up snob", they are the actions of Gates, a man whose actions you are defending.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 03:11 AM
Gates made it a matter of race when he started yelling "Is This How You Treat A Black Man In America?" when he was asked to provide identification. Frankly, I don't care about Mr Gate's past experience. He doesn't get a "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free" card because he "lived through the civil rights movement". All he had to do was say: "I think there has been a mistake here, officer. I live here. Here is my driver's license, which, as you can see, has this address on it. I just returned from vacation and had trouble with a stuck door. Is there anything else I can do to clear this up for you?" It would have taken less than 30 seconds.

Im not saying he should get a get out jail free card. I was trying to explain that past experiences with Cops during his youth, a time of definite racial disparity and a time where some cops were known to treat blacks poorly and not fairly may have contributed why he blew up at the cop....and you dont think that that holds ANY water at all? ...you dont care what he has been through? Do you have any clue what life was like for some people in his youth, because of things like race? Do you? I mean do you really? No you probably do not. You dont think times like that shape a man as he grows older? I think they might. On top of that, I have still not heard the full dialogue between Gates and the officer...and I MEAN THE FULL THING. From the time he introduces himself as an officer, and gates' original response. All I have heard, courtesy of ABC news (with my main man charlie gibson) is a 30 second clip where the officer tells his dispatcher that he needs backup. Who knows what the cop could have been saying to gates before that (or vice versa). He really may have been out of line in the way he spoke to gates, or the way he continued to speak to gates afterwards. We dont know, because a cops word always count for more, and thats why some cops run rampid with the power they have. What are you going to tell me next, there is no such thing as bad cops?

mscomc
07-29-2009, 03:16 AM
[QUOTE=Play The Man][FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="4"]Your post was long and is being responded to in pieces. Please be patient.

I have found that when people are losing an argument, they resort to ad hominem attacks. Don't you?

It is not an attack, it was an oppinion. If I wanted to attack you, I certainly would have been more vulgar about it, but I am not.

And you are defending the working-class cop? So gates isnt working class? The guy doesnt have to work for his money. That guy didnt have to pull himself up by his bootstraps and work hard to earn a pHD, and then no doubt had to work even harder to obtain a tenured position at HARVARD!!!.

And another thing, its good to defend the cop, as I encourage trying to see things from another persective, but do you honestly thinks that COPS can do no wrong? HMMM? And another thing, I to would have tried to argue from the cops perspective if I felt that was they way this thread was going. But most people on this thread, from what i read, were already agreeing with the cop, so I was trying to give a voice from Gates' perspective.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 03:33 AM
what if during their conversation, that COP really was being a jerk? I think we have all met those kind of cops....ones who just like to try and flex their muscle and act like the big bad boss

The occupation of police officer has a high rate of morbidity and mortality. When a cop kisses his wife good-bye and goes off to work, he knows that there is a real chance that he may not make it home alive from his shift. Cops give orders, not suggestions, because from the moment they have contact with a suspect, they must be in control, to have the best odds of going home safely after their shift. They must present a figure of authority. The policeman always thinks in the back of his mind that the suspect could be armed. Cops often have to be "jerks" to show dominance over a belligerent suspect and get a suspect to "back down" before a situation escalates to violence. For example, the Cambridge police officer pulled out his handcuffs and warned Gates that he would be arrested. Showing the handcuffs was a show of force, to warn Gates to settle down. He didn't heed the warning.

If a citizen is mistreated by a policeman, he has the option to file a complaint. Gates should have complied with the officer and then filed a complaint, if he felt he was not treated fairly.

I have been treated rudely by police officers; however, I guess I don't have such a sense of self-importance that I feel that I have to disobey them to demonstrate that I am a man. I respect the police. I appreciate police officers and I will defend them when they are treated unfairly.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 03:44 AM
The occupation of police officer has a high rate of morbidity and mortality. When a cop kisses his wife good-bye and goes off to work, he knows that there is a real chance that he may not make it home alive from his shift. Cops give orders, not suggestions, because from the moment they have contact with a suspect, they must be in control, to have the best odds of going home safely after their shift. They must present a figure of authority. The policeman always thinks in the back of his mind that the suspect could be armed. Cops often have to be "jerks" to show dominance over a belligerent suspect and get a suspect to "back down" before a situation escalates to violence. For example, the Cambridge police officer pulled out his handcuffs and warned Gates that he would be arrested. Showing the handcuffs was a show of force, to warn Gates to settle down. He didn't heed the warning.

If a citizen is mistreated by a policeman, he has the option to file a complaint. Gates should have complied with the officer and then filed a complaint, if he felt he was not treated fairly.

I have been treated rudely by police officers; however, I guess I don't have such a sense of self-importance that I feel that I have to disobey them to demonstrate that I am a man. I respect the police. I appreciate police officers and I will defend them when they are treated unfairly.

Ok fair enough. I personally know a few cops, and I dont beleive that you need to induce what seems to be FEAR in order to be dominat and have power... I think being able to weild RESPECT is power. Anyway, I can see what your saying from that perspective.

But being a cop who likes to really assert his/her dominance isnt to far from crossing the line....and many cops do, its just the way it is. True, people can file a complaint afterwards, but thats not what is going through your head when you feel your beeing spoken down to by a guy who has a badge on his chet and gun at his waist. Anway just my two cents.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 03:46 AM
Im not saying he should get a get out jail free card. I was trying to explain that past experiences with Cops during his youth, a time of definite racial disparity and a time where some cops were known to treat blacks poorly and not fairly may have contributed why he blew up at the cop....and you dont think that that holds ANY water at all? ...you dont care what he has been through? Do you have any clue what life was like for some people in his youth, because of things like race? Do you? I mean do you really? No you probably do not. You dont think times like that shape a man as he grows older? I think they might. On top of that, I have still not heard the full dialogue between Gates and the officer...and I MEAN THE FULL THING. From the time he introduces himself as an officer, and gates' original response. All I have heard, courtesy of ABC news (with my main man charlie gibson) is a 30 second clip where the officer tells his dispatcher that he needs backup. Who knows what the cop could have been saying to gates before that (or vice versa). He really may have been out of line in the way he spoke to gates, or the way he continued to speak to gates afterwards. We dont know, because a cops word always count for more, and thats why some cops run rampid with the power they have. What are you going to tell me next, there is no such thing as bad cops?

The fact is you don't what he has "been through". Unless you have a detailed knowledge of his youth you are making assumptions. Whatever his experiences as a youth, he is not allowed to disobey the police. Are you going to tell me there is no such thing as bad black professors?

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 03:51 AM
[QUOTE=Play The Man][FONT="Times New Roman"]Your post was long and is being responded to in pieces. Please be patient.

I have found that when people are losing an argument, they resort to ad hominem attacks. Don't you?

It is not an attack, it was an oppinion. If I wanted to attack you, I certainly would have been more vulgar about it, but I am not.

[SIZE="4"]My point is, instead of focusing on the argument, you were making comments about me. I didn't accuse you of being vulgar. I accused you of employing a logical fallacy.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 03:59 AM
The fact is you don't what he has "been through". Unless you have a detailed knowledge of his youth you are making assumptions. Whatever his experiences as a youth, he is not allowed to disobey the police. Are you going to tell me there is no such thing as bad black professors?

OF COURSE THERE ARE BAD proffessors...bad doctors....bad teachers...bad lawyers...BAD EVERYTHING. their are bad apples in every profession., COPS ASWELL. All I am trying to do is try to show things from another perspective, and that we all shouldnt just agree with a cop because he is a cop and COPS are always the best....its not true.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 04:02 AM
The fact is you don't what he has "been through". Unless you have a detailed knowledge of his youth you are making assumptions. Whatever his experiences as a youth, he is not allowed to disobey the police. Are you going to tell me there is no such thing as bad black professors?

You are right, I am making an assumption, but for me it is a little more than an assumption. I myself am a visible minority, and I have many family members who are from and lived in the states during the civil rights movement, and they have shared their experiences with me. From a probability point of view, I think it would be fair to say that the chances of Gates being treated less than fairly by cops at some point in youth is pretty high.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 04:03 AM
this site had like 30 page thread when that grandma got tased by some cop, and people thought he was probably acting all high and mighty.

So, not trying to pick sides, but maybe its not as cut and dry as it looks.

Officer Crowley didn't assault anybody, including Professor Gates. His actions were observed (at least the tail end of them) by: a Hispanic cop, a Black cop, the woman that phoned in the report as well as a small crowd of onlookers that gathered because Gate's was screaming. Interestingly, according to the caller's lawyer, the caller heard much of the interaction and supports the cop's story, but will not repeat the words that she heard come out of Gate's mouth, because she is fearful of getting further involved.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 04:09 AM
[QUOTE=Play The Man][FONT="Times New Roman"]
And you are defending the working-class cop? So gates isnt working class? The guy doesnt have to work for his money. That guy didnt have to pull himself up by his bootstraps and work hard to earn a pHD, and then no doubt had to work even harder to obtain a tenured position at HARVARD!!!.


[SIZE="4"]"Working-class" is a class distinction. It says nothing about how hard someone works or how many hours they put in. It is used in this context, as opposed to, "professional" class. For all I know, Gates could have come from a "working-class" background; however, he is not now, and has not been for decades, "working-class"

mscomc
07-29-2009, 04:13 AM
[QUOTE=mscomc]

"Working-class" is a class distinction. It says nothing about how hard someone works or how many hours they put in. It is used in this context, as opposed to, "professional" class. For all I know, Gates could have come from a "working-class" background; however, he is not now, and has not been for decades, "working-class"

ok, if thats what you meant, then i agree with that. I have heard the term working class used in other ways. But if that is what you mean, then ok.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 04:14 AM
You are right, I am making an assumption, but for me it is a little more than an assumption. I myself am a visible minority, and I have many family members who are from and lived in the states during the civil rights movement, and they have shared their experiences with me. From a probability point of view, I think it would be fair to say that the chances of Gates being treated less than fairly by cops at some point in youth is pretty high.

Don't try and play the "race" card on me. You don't know the race of my family, my wife or my child. Taking this unnecessary detour is not a good sign when defending an argument. I don't care how Gates was treated by police officers 50 years ago. It has absolutely no bearing on how he should provide identification when a police officer is investigating a home break-in.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 04:27 AM
]Don't try and play the "race" card on me. You don't know the race of my family, my wife or my child. Taking this unnecessary detour is not a good sign when defending an argument. I don't care how Gates was treated by police officers 50 years ago. It has absolutely no bearing on how he should provide identification when a police officer is investigating a home break-in.

First of all, dont get so hot and bothered. Second, maybe it is my fault for not articulating right, so I will try again. I am just trying to say that past experiences have probably corrupted his faith in the police department, if you dont think that matters, then ok, I cant change your mind, but you wont change mine either. I think that may have been a major reason why he may have started yelling or being irate, and the cop could have been less then fair with him while they interacted, I dont know the FULL story and neither do you. the very fact that you say: I don't care how Gates was treated by police officers 50 years ago. It has absolutely no bearing on how he should provide identification when a police officer is investigating a home break-in further suggests to me that you truly dont know the hurt that can be forever lasting from experiences like that....but maybe you are right, it is not necessary in the realm of this discussion.

Play The Man
07-29-2009, 04:30 AM
[QUOTE=Play The Man][FONT="Times New Roman"]
And another thing, its good to defend the cop, as I encourage trying to see things from another persective, but do you honestly thinks that COPS can do no wrong? HMMM? And another thing, I to would have tried to argue from the cops perspective if I felt that was they way this thread was going. But most people on this thread, from what i read, were already agreeing with the cop, so I was trying to give a voice from Gates' perspective.

[SIZE="4"]I am honestly troubled when I see a good man like Officer Crowley being falsely accused of something bad, like being a racist. I don't like when people make false accusations, because it leads to "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" phenomenon, where the label of "racist" has lost its meaning. People become cynical and when racism is really being practiced, they are unlikely to believe it, because the Al Sharptons of this world have turned the label into a joke. I honestly thought you were convinced that Gates was innocent and were trying to defend a mistreated man . . . and then I come to your post above. This whole thread has been an exercise in sophistry for you. I think I have raised good points about the innocence of Officer Crowley. MSCOMC, you are an admitted Sophist. I have better things to do with my time than participate in your sophistry. I will not be posting anymore in this thread.

mscomc
07-29-2009, 04:43 AM
[QUOTE=mscomc]

I am honestly troubled when I see a good man like Officer Crowley being falsely accused of something bad, like being a racist. I don't like when people make false accusations, because it leads to "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" phenomenon, where the label of "racist" has lost its meaning. People become cynical and when racism is really being practiced, they are unlikely to believe it, because the Al Sharptons of this world have turned the label into a joke. I honestly thought you were convinced that Gates was innocent and were trying to defend a mistreated man . . . and then I come to your post above. This whole thread has been an exercise in sophistry for you. I think I have raised good points about the innocence of Officer Crowley. MSCOMC, you are an admitted Sophist. I have better things to do with my time than participate in your sophistry. I will not be posting anymore in this thread.

Okie dokie, thats fine with me...i dont beleive i called him a racist or implied that, IF I DID, it was not my intention. You can call me a sophist, fine. I dont care, your oppinion of me doesnt matter at all.

At least I am not completely ignorant like you. "a good man like Officer Crowley"....so what you know him now? you were high school friends? ooo no, you have dinner parties with him? No that not enough, you were the best man at his wedding? You dont know him, and neither do I. You only know him though his 15 min of fame like the rest of us. So because he is a cop, he is automatically good? Ok then, if that is what you want to beleive, thats perfectly within your rights.

And you did raise good points of the officers innocence, i was trying to give another story to start a discussion. Isnt that what the courts do, the prosecution makes their case, and the defence gives theirs, often to poke holes in the prosecutions case. But, whatever...... Take care, and have a good night.

Neezar
07-29-2009, 04:44 AM
The cop shoulda tased him.

:happydancing:

NateR
07-29-2009, 05:55 AM
I find it ironic that Obama has spent his first 6 months in office going from country to country apologizing for the past actions of America; yet, on a personal level, he will not publicly apologize to a police officer for bad-mouthing his actions before he had the facts.

Well, Obama was only apologizing for all the stuff that George W. Bush supposedly did. Obama doesn't really seem the type to apologize for his own mistakes and stupid remarks.

I would definitely trust the word of the police officer more than some left-wing, racist Harvard professor.

matthughesfan21
07-29-2009, 06:18 AM
Well, Obama was only apologizing for all the stuff that George W. Bush supposedly did. Obama doesn't really seem the type to apologize for his own mistakes and stupid remarks.

I would definitely trust the word of the police officer more than some left-wing, racist Harvard professor.and he is a RACIAL SENSITIVITY professor also, :laugh: what a freakin joke

Chuck
07-29-2009, 01:02 PM
and he is a RACIAL SENSITIVITY professor also, :laugh: what a freakin joke

Negative Ghostrider.... I believe the Officer teaches racial sensitivity classes... I think the professor.............


is just a racist.

County Mike
07-29-2009, 02:14 PM
Professor Gates teaches 2 racist classes:

African and African American Studies 10: Introduction to African American Studies (co-taught with Prof. Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham)

African and African American Studies 301: Graduate Seminar

http://aaas.fas.harvard.edu/faculty/henry_louis_gates_jr/index.html

rearnakedchoke
07-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Professor Gates teaches 2 racist classes:

African and African American Studies 10: Introduction to African American Studies (co-taught with Prof. Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham)

African and African American Studies 301: Graduate Seminar

http://aaas.fas.harvard.edu/faculty/henry_louis_gates_jr/index.html

And how are these racist studies? I mean classes?

County Mike
07-29-2009, 05:43 PM
And how are these racist studies? I mean classes?

In my opnion, anything that's based on race is racist.

Seems a little funny that he only teaches classes that are based on being black and he calls the cop a racist while being un-cooperative.

rearnakedchoke
07-29-2009, 05:51 PM
In my opnion, anything that's based on race is racist.

Seems a little funny that he only teaches classes that are based on being black and he calls the cop a racist while being un-cooperative.
So what about the Chinese studies or European studies? Are those racist? If so, I am sure there are a whole lot of racist studies at many colleges/universities all over ... and some of the courses being taught in the african courses are taught by whites? are they racist too?

County Mike
07-29-2009, 06:14 PM
So what about the Chinese studies or European studies? Are those racist? If so, I am sure there are a whole lot of racist studies at many colleges/universities all over ... and some of the courses being taught in the african courses are taught by whites? are they racist too?

Yes.

rearnakedchoke
07-29-2009, 06:20 PM
Yes.
Come on, you don't actually believe that do you? So people shouldn't be offered the right to learn about their own or other people's history? I don't think you actually believe that.

County Mike
07-29-2009, 06:22 PM
Come on, you don't actually believe that do you? So people shouldn't be offered the right to learn about their own or other people's history? I don't think you actually believe that.

I didn't say the courses shouldn't exist or that people shouldn't be able to learn about it. I'm just saying that they are racist classes.

Funny how: "White American Studies" could be described as "Study of historical achievements by white Americans" and it would sound very racist.

Changing the race does not erase the racism.

Crisco
07-29-2009, 06:23 PM
Yes.

:laugh:

County Mike
07-29-2009, 06:33 PM
I didn't say the courses shouldn't exist or that people shouldn't be able to learn about it. I'm just saying that they are racist classes.

Funny how: "White American Studies" could be described as "Study of historical achievements by white Americans" and it would sound very racist.

Changing the race does not erase the racism.

I hate being the last post on a page. Tends to get missed so I copied here.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
07-30-2009, 03:11 AM
I have a real simple idea! If a cop comes to your door and explains that he needs to see ID cause of a reported break in,show your ID no matter what your race. Its as simple as that! It ain't necessary to curse,yell and try to pick a fight. Just simply show ID then see how the cop re-act's! On a side note this allegedly Racist cop has saved one Black person that we know of. You see its real simple!

Chris Wescott
07-30-2009, 02:51 PM
I can't agree more.

Mr. Gate's racism is not recognized. Why not?

And we all have had hard times in our past. Those of us with strength and integrity don't use it as a crutch or as an excuse for our current poor behavior.


Gates made it a matter of race when he started yelling "Is This How You Treat A Black Man In America?" when he was asked to provide identification. Frankly, I don't care about Mr Gate's past experience. He doesn't get a "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free" card because he "lived through the civil rights movement". All he had to do was say: "I think there has been a mistake here, officer. I live here. Here is my driver's license, which, as you can see, has this address on it. I just returned from vacation and had trouble with a stuck door. Is there anything else I can do to clear this up for you?" It would have taken less than 30 seconds.

Chris Wescott
07-30-2009, 02:54 PM
Are we really that scared of the race conversation? The word racist?

Race is not a bad word. Being black and proud of your heratige makes you racist, is that bad? Are white people allowed to express their pride in being white comfortably?

Hispanics, can they be proud to be hispanic?

WTF? If we keep ignoring the 900 pound gorrilla it's going to sit on us one day and that will probably hurt.


I didn't say the courses shouldn't exist or that people shouldn't be able to learn about it. I'm just saying that they are racist classes.

Funny how: "White American Studies" could be described as "Study of historical achievements by white Americans" and it would sound very racist.

Changing the race does not erase the racism.

rearnakedchoke
07-30-2009, 03:05 PM
Are we really that scared of the race conversation? The word racist?

Race is not a bad word. Being black and proud of your heratige makes you racist, is that bad? Are white people allowed to express their pride in being white comfortably?

Hispanics, can they be proud to be hispanic?

WTF? If we keep ignoring the 900 pound gorrilla it's going to sit on us one day and that will probably hurt.


THAT'S RACIST!!!!!

rearnakedchoke
07-30-2009, 03:08 PM
I didn't say the courses shouldn't exist or that people shouldn't be able to learn about it. I'm just saying that they are racist classes.

Funny how: "White American Studies" could be described as "Study of historical achievements by white Americans" and it would sound very racist.

Changing the race does not erase the racism.
They have European studies in many Universities .. I don't see that as racist ... I mean, African studies are studies about issues from the continent of africa, European studies are about issues from the continent of Europe ...

County Mike
07-30-2009, 04:03 PM
They have European studies in many Universities .. I don't see that as racist ... I mean, African studies are studies about issues from the continent of africa, European studies are about issues from the continent of Europe ...

He doesn't teach "African Studies". He teaches "African American Studies". I'm guessing it really has nothing to do with Africa.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your race or teaching racial history. There's only a problem when it's used in a hateful way.

NateR
07-30-2009, 04:58 PM
I didn't say the courses shouldn't exist or that people shouldn't be able to learn about it. I'm just saying that they are racist classes.

Funny how: "White American Studies" could be described as "Study of historical achievements by white Americans" and it would sound very racist.

Changing the race does not erase the racism.

I actually 100% agree with you. Singling out any group of people based on race is racist. The motivations are irrelevant. In other words, singling blacks out as under-evolved, subhumans (the way 19th century Evolutionary scientists did) is just as bad as blacks singling themselves out as a way to prop up their own achievements as a people.

America is supposed to be a melting pot where race and social class doesn't matter. However, the blacks seem to want to keep themselves segregated.

Basically, if you want to find the source of modern racism, then you need look no further than the self-proclaimed leaders of the "black community" in America. If everyone was getting along fine, then they would find themselves falling out of power and influence very quickly. So, they need to continually rekindle the fires of hatred and keep their own people feeling oppressed and unhappy in order to keep themselves in power. Thus, the true enemies of blacks in America are men like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and this idiot Harvard professor, among others.

rearnakedchoke
07-30-2009, 05:45 PM
I actually 100% agree with you. Singling out any group of people based on race is racist. The motivations are irrelevant. In other words, singling blacks out as under-evolved, subhumans (the way 19th century Evolutionary scientists did) is just as bad as blacks singling themselves out as a way to prop up their own achievements as a people.

America is supposed to be a melting pot where race and social class doesn't matter. However, the blacks seem to want to keep themselves segregated.

Basically, if you want to find the source of modern racism, then you need look no further than the self-proclaimed leaders of the "black community" in America. If everyone was getting along fine, then they would find themselves falling out of power and influence very quickly. So, they need to continually rekindle the fires of hatred and keep their own people feeling oppressed and unhappy in order to keep themselves in power. Thus, the true enemies of blacks in America are men like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and this idiot Harvard professor, among others.
I agree and disagree ... i think you are right in that some of the leaders are holding back blacks from progressing forward ... they are not teaching blacks to integrate and move on with the past and better yourself ... being brown, (LOL) ... having a leader like Gandhi was way different ... (now i am not that old, but he laid the groundwork for the progress of india) ... he was able to bring the best out of Indians and tell them to not rely on the British for anything, so they made their own clothes, got their salt from the ocean ... all of which was against the law at the time, but was an unjust law ... now look at the progress of india .. sure they still have a ways to go, but since gaining independence in 1947 to 60 years later being where they are today .. so that i agree with you ... but to know ones history, or to learn about things. in my history class in highschool, we learned how the chinese were a major part of building the railway here in North America ... is that racist? ..

County Mike
07-30-2009, 06:05 PM
I agree and disagree ... i think you are right in that some of the leaders are holding back blacks from progressing forward ... they are not teaching blacks to integrate and move on with the past and better yourself ... being brown, (LOL) ... having a leader like Gandhi was way different ... (now i am not that old, but he laid the groundwork for the progress of india) ... he was able to bring the best out of Indians and tell them to not rely on the British for anything, so they made their own clothes, got their salt from the ocean ... all of which was against the law at the time, but was an unjust law ... now look at the progress of india .. sure they still have a ways to go, but since gaining independence in 1947 to 60 years later being where they are today .. so that i agree with you ... but to know ones history, or to learn about things. in my history class in highschool, we learned how the chinese were a major part of building the railway here in North America ... is that racist? ..

I think it depends on your definition of racist. To me, anything that is based on race is racist. That doesn't make it wrong. The word "racist" has taken on a negative tone that isn't completely warranted. "Chinese History" is racist if you're talking about the Chinese people and not events in China. However it should be taught as part of any history. Same as American History or whatever else you feel is relevant. Don't always think of the word "racist" as a bad thing. I think that's where the major dispute on this topic is coming from.

"African American Studies" is a racist course, but that doesn't mean it's not worth teaching/learning. I brought up the fact that he teaches these courses because it could help show his pre-conceived mindset on basing things (like his being questioned) on race. If he taught simple science or math, I wouldn't have made the same conclusion.

rearnakedchoke
07-30-2009, 06:07 PM
I think it depends on your definition of racist. To me, anything that is based on race is racist. That doesn't make it wrong. The word "racist" has taken on a negative tone that isn't completely warranted. "Chinese History" is racist if you're talking about the Chinese people and not events in China. However it should be taught as part of any history. Same as American History or whatever else you feel is relevant. Don't always think of the word "racist" as a bad thing. I think that's where the major dispute on this topic is coming from.

"African American Studies" is a racist course, but that doesn't mean it's not worth teaching/learning. I brought up the fact that he teaches these courses because it could help show his pre-conceived mindset on basing things (like his being questioned) on race. If he taught simple science or math, I wouldn't have made the same conclusion.
so when you say racist, do you mean discriminatory? ah forget it .. i think i know what you mean ...

NateR
07-30-2009, 06:14 PM
in my history class in highschool, we learned how the chinese were a major part of building the railway here in North America ... is that racist? ..

There is nothing wrong with studying about the contributions of different ethnic groups or cultures; but it should be taught within the grand scope of world history. To single out one particular race, based solely on their race, and only teach about their contributions to history, at the exclusion of every other race, is racist.

It's because of all these segregated race-history and feminism courses, that our college campuses have become the primary breeding grounds of modern racism.

Modern racism states that as long as you only hate white people and Jews, then it's okay to be racist and, as long as you only hate heterosexual men, then it's okay to be sexist. That's nonsense.

Play The Man
07-30-2009, 09:08 PM
I was critical of Professor Gate's actions; however, I read that he has chosen "Red Stripe" as his beer of choice for tonight's "beer summit". I will give him a compliment: he has great taste in beer.

http://oldlutheran.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/pintglass_150.gif

Crisco
07-30-2009, 09:19 PM
I was critical of Professor Gate's actions; however, I read that he has chosen "Red Stripe" as his beer of choice for tonight's "beer summit". I will give him a compliment: he has great taste in beer.

http://oldlutheran.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/pintglass_150.gif

Says you sir... Says you.

Neezar
07-31-2009, 12:07 AM
I hope the other guy stayed true and requested PBR.

Play The Man
07-31-2009, 12:17 AM
Professor Gates went with Samuel Adams Light. A good beer in my opinion. Good choice, professor!
http://oldlutheran.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/pintglass_150.gif

Play The Man
07-31-2009, 12:18 AM
Says you sir... Says you.

What beer is enjoyed in "Dirty Jersey" . . . a "dirty thirty"?:wink:

Crisco
07-31-2009, 04:55 AM
What beer is enjoyed in "Dirty Jersey" . . . a "dirty thirty"?:wink:

Many different kinds. It depends on my mood.

Light or dark beer.

Light is probably Corona. For a dark I like Killian Irish Red.

Chris Wescott
07-31-2009, 08:02 PM
All about the guiness for me....delicious! :Whistle: