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Play The Man
07-26-2009, 06:37 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hWde-t7zYV7atjRV2ETHGLQOm5BwD99LHD4O0

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01450/HarryPatch_1450208c.jpg

Harry Patch, the last British army veteran of World War I, has died at 111, the nursing home where he lived said Saturday.

The Fletcher House care home in Wells, southwest England, said Patch died early Saturday.

"He just quietly slipped away at 9 a.m. this morning," said care home manager Andrew Larpent. "It was how he would have wanted it, without having to be moved to hospitals but here, peacefully with his friends and carers."

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the whole country would mourn "the passing of a great man."

"The noblest of all the generations has left us, but they will never be forgotten. We say today with still greater force, We Will Remember Them," Brown said.

Prince Charles said "nothing could give me greater pride" than paying tribute to Patch.

"The Great War is a chapter in our history we must never forget, so many sacrifices were made, so many young lives lost," he said.

Patch had been the last surviving soldier from the British army to have served in the 1914-1918 war.
Born in southwest England in 1898, Patch was called up for military service in 1916 when he was working as a teenage apprentice plumber. After training he was sent to the trenches as a machine-gunner in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry.

A few weeks later, in one of the bloodiest battles of the war at Passchendaele, near the Belgian town of Ypres, he was badly wounded and three of his best friends were killed by a shell explosion.

Back at home, he returned to work as a plumber, got married, raised a family and didn't start talking about his war experiences until the 21st century. He outlived three wives and both of his sons.

Patch was one of the last living links to "the war to end all wars," which killed about 20 million people in years of brutal fighting between the Allied Powers — including Britain, France, and the United States — and Germany and its allies.

Only a handful of veterans remain of the estimated 68 million mobilized. There are no French veterans left alive; the last living American-born veteran is Frank Woodruff Buckles of Charles Town, West Virginia. The man believed to have been Germany's last surviving soldier has also died.

Just last week the penultimate British WWI Veteran (and world's oldest man) died:http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hhwMA4Dwt4_3-v8g8kqJY6dnyTxw


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/7/18/1247908670027/Henry-Allingham-in-2008-001.jpg
Henry Allingham, the world's oldest man and World War I veteran who put his longevity down to "cigarettes, whisky and wild, wild women", died Saturday at the age of 113.

Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Gordon Brown led the tributes to Allingham, who symbolised the stoicism of the last generation of servicemen who saw the horrors of the Great War.

The veteran spoke of his experiences in the 1914-1918 conflict in order to remember fallen comrades shorn of the chance to live as long has he did and hoped there would be "no more wars".

In moving scenes last November, the frail, wheelchair-bound Allingham tried for minutes to lay his wreath himself as he led the country in marking the 90th anniversary of the armistice.

Allingham spent his 113th birthday on June 6 at a party hosted by the Royal Navy.
Born in Clapton, northeast London, Allingham witnessed three different centuries and saw six British monarchs on the throne.

A mechanic in the Royal Naval Air Service, he took part in the naval Battle of Jutland in 1916 and was one of the founding members of the Royal Air Force when it was formed two years later.

The head of the RAF, Air Chief Marshal Glenn Torpy, said Allingham had been a vital link with the past and was an "inspiration to many."

"He was a proud supporter of today's Royal Air Force and we, in turn, were able to learn much from his wise words and vast experience."

Tyburn
07-26-2009, 07:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ4BrMTMjBw

:sad:

Play The Man
07-26-2009, 07:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ4BrMTMjBw

:sad:

Thank you. Very thought-provoking.

rearnakedchoke
07-26-2009, 07:55 PM
last week the last canadian surviving ww1 vet turned 109 ...

Tyburn
07-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Your welcome PTM :)

WW1 Vets are a dying breed simply because of time...its so very sad...Next Remembrance Day, there will be noone left to place the Veterans Wreath at the Cenotaph :cry:

Tyburn
07-26-2009, 11:14 PM
The Music for that video is actually a combination of two separate variations, the second one begins right where Churchill begins his most famous address to Parliament. Its associated almost exclusively with Rembrance and War...you can see the full track in the linkey-dooo below. The name is shared with an terrific warlord in the Old Testament from the Anti-deluvian culture called Nimrod. The Organ of Saint Paul's Cathedral would play this regularly before the start of a major service. Its one of the most wellknown tunes in classical music...but best performed orchestral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE



The music after the silence is a Military call known as The Last Post...but actually it doesnt carry with it the finality of the lesser known "Sunset" which is the closest you can get to the Militaries alternative to Vespers...I include a particularly nice version of it below, the call can be heard between 2.10 and marks 3.52 worth a listen. Its during a Military Musical Show...and played by the Royal Marines. I want it at my Funeral, because it is more beautiful then the Last Post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0lPmlLiCpk

Play The Man
07-26-2009, 11:29 PM
The Music for that video is actually a combination of two separate variations, the second one begins right where Churchill begins his most famous address to Parliament. Its associated almost exclusively with Rembrance and War...you can see the full track in the linkey-dooo below. The name is shared with an terrific warlord in the Old Testament from the Anti-deluvian culture called Nimrod. The Organ of Saint Paul's Cathedral would play this regularly before the start of a major service. Its one of the most wellknown tunes in classical music...but best performed orchestral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE



The music after the silence is a Military call known as The Last Post...but actually it doesnt carry with it the finality of the lesser known "Sunset" which is the closest you can get to the Militaries alternative to Vespers...I include a particularly nice version of it below, the call can be heard between 2.10 and marks 3.52 worth a listen. Its during a Military Musical Show...and played by the Royal Marines. I want it at my Funeral, because it is more beautiful then the Last Post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0lPmlLiCpk

Yes, I'm familiar with Elgar's Enigma Variations. If I remember correctly, although it is named after Nimrod, he used each variation as a pun to refer to his different friends. I remember driving with my wife to a weekend getaway on the Friday after September 11, 2001 and listening to it on the car radio. It was played in memory of the victims of 9/11. After that terrible week, it was such a peaceful respite.

Play The Man
07-26-2009, 11:50 PM
Your welcome PTM :)

WW1 Vets are a dying breed simply because of time...its so very sad...Next Remembrance Day, there will be noone left to place the Veterans Wreath at the Cenotaph :cry:

There is still one Australian WWI serviceman, who was born in England and fought for England. There is also one Canadian (and one American). Perhaps they could be flown in for the ceremony. Of course, they will be gone soon, as well. Out of millions of men, only three are still living.:sad: Life is a paradox: Life is priceless, yet cheap; Life is awful; yet beautiful; At times we wish we could live forever, at times we wish for death. We are literally walking stardust, yet we carry the Imago Dei and in some sense are brothers with Jesus Christ, himself. Who can comprehend it?

Tyburn
08-07-2009, 11:11 PM
The Last Post for The Last Witness :sad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NymppYEw1AA

Play The Man
08-07-2009, 11:42 PM
The Last Post for The Last Witness :sad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NymppYEw1AA

Thank you. I enjoyed most of it; however, did my ears deceive me? What song was the choir girl singing? It sounded like some high church rendition of a Pete Seeger folk song. If so, I find it disappointing that they would sing something by a communist who was a Stalin apologist for much of his life.

Tyburn
08-08-2009, 11:29 AM
Thank you. I enjoyed most of it; however, did my ears deceive me? What song was the choir girl singing? It sounded like some high church rendition of a Pete Seeger folk song. If so, I find it disappointing that they would sing something by a communist who was a Stalin apologist for much of his life.
Its called "where have all the flowers gone" and it was a personal request I believe from his family that it be played. I dont like the song, the melody is not much and the lyrics sound a bit...twee to me. I certainly wouldnt have anything like that at my funeral! My tastes hold a little more susbstance

For Example
Planned Introit Processional= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFW7bk_oQ1Y (I might request it played slightly slower then this version)
Planned Recessional= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5rcIL41r5o

Interestingly, I applied last year for a position at Wells Cathedral. Its just one of several Cathedrals that have turned down my application on the grounds of Politics left over from my Tenure at Saint Paul's :sad:

Play The Man
08-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Its called "where have all the flowers gone" and it was a personal request I believe from his family that it be played. I dont like the song, the melody is not much and the lyrics sound a bit...twee to me. I certainly wouldnt have anything like that at my funeral! My tastes hold a little more susbstance

For Example
Planned Introit Processional= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFW7bk_oQ1Y (I might request it played slightly slower then this version)
Planned Recessional= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5rcIL41r5o

Interestingly, I applied last year for a position at Wells Cathedral. Its just one of several Cathedrals that have turned down my application on the grounds of Politics left over from my Tenure at Saint Paul's :sad:

The cathedral looked incredibly beautiful.

Tyburn
08-09-2009, 11:07 AM
The cathedral looked incredibly beautiful.
I'm not sure I liked the look of the Quire to be honnest though, Its always strange for me to see one without an organ screen of some kind. Bath and Wells is a smallish Cathedral with next to no significance at all

I much perfer a Cathedral like

Saint Paul's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlVas1itjSo (I worked here for two years :laugh: )


Lincoln
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXih1KYKr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wah5f-0lio (from the air...I was born in Lincoln, so the Cathedral is kinda special to me for that reason, I've visited it everso many times, and a friend from Saint Paul's is now Dean there :laugh: )

Liverpool Anglican http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_9-OIEbcow (not Metropolitan which is Catholic, Anglican is the largest Cathedral in England and I believe the third largest in the world :w00t:

York Minster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1WiFYyJ25w (although I'm actually in the D of Ripon and Leeds, the Cathedral at Ripon is...a bit of a let down, I'm actually almost an equal distance between that and York Minster so I defer unofficially to the latter :laugh:

I miss the Saint Paul's :sad:

Play The Man
08-09-2009, 05:47 PM
I'm not sure I liked the look of the Quire to be honnest though, Its always strange for me to see one without an organ screen of some kind. Bath and Wells is a smallish Cathedral with next to no significance at all

I much perfer a Cathedral like

Saint Paul's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlVas1itjSo (I worked here for two years :laugh: )


Lincoln
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXih1KYKr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wah5f-0lio (from the air...I was born in Lincoln, so the Cathedral is kinda special to me for that reason, I've visited it everso many times, and a friend from Saint Paul's is now Dean there :laugh: )

Liverpool Anglican http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_9-OIEbcow (not Metropolitan which is Catholic, Anglican is the largest Cathedral in England and I believe the third largest in the world :w00t:

York Minster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1WiFYyJ25w (although I'm actually in the D of Ripon and Leeds, the Cathedral at Ripon is...a bit of a let down, I'm actually almost an equal distance between that and York Minster so I defer unofficially to the latter :laugh:

I miss the Saint Paul's :sad:

Yes, they will make beautiful mosques when the takeover by your Muslim overlords is complete.

Tyburn
08-09-2009, 06:05 PM
Yes, they will make beautiful mosques when the takeover by your Muslim overlords is complete.
:huh:

The Islamists have their own Mosques in this Country already :laugh:

Have you something against Cathedrals or something :unsure-1: Are you one of these people who thinks we should tear them all down and give the money to the poor or what? The Truth is that these Cathedrals are about the only things that have required lots of people to build something big in Honour of GOD. All other Religious Buildings are given over to idols of some kind, or are Jewish, which whilst reverent, if they dont accept Christ it doesnt matter does it?

Cathedrals are huge undertakings that show that GOD was worth the effort of building them. I think some people dont realize what a Glorifying process some of the Cathedrals are. How even in a world which has abandoned Christianity, these Buildings are like Army Bases in the middle of an occupied land. Becons of night where the daily cycle of prayer and praise is unendingly repeated, over and over and over again. Just like it is within the throneroom of Heaven itself. A Magnificent Space dedicated to nothing but prayer and worship to the Only GOD. The more Beautiful, the more money thats been spent on it, the more the financial cost to those who set it up, who were prepared to invest hundreds for the sake of producing nothing but a space in which to pray and worship.

You wouldnt get people that passionate anymore. They spend their money on getting drunk, or prostituion, or lottery tickets. Because GOD evidently is not worth spending that sorta stupid amount of money on. Look at the storm that the cost of the Olympics is creating in London? Are they worth the money? many people would tell you NO. Its a sign of apathy, that we perceive nothing as worth the price asked for it...not even for self glory, or for honour.

In past times people DIED creating these monumental Structures...people died creating structures for other gods and even other people. If you were married would you love your Wife enough to build THIS for her tomb?

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2504/tajmahal.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tajmahal.jpg/)


Its nothing but a Mauseleum for a single Woman. People just dont care like they used to, about other people...or, seemingly, about their GOD. They forget that a Cathedral has probably been on the site for hundreds of years, that the walls and floors are soaked in prayer and praise from countless generations. Nope, knock em down and give the money to the poor instead. Bloody Philistines :angry:

Play The Man
08-09-2009, 06:54 PM
:huh:

The Islamists have their own Mosques in this Country already :laugh:

Have you something against Cathedrals or something :unsure-1: Are you one of these people who thinks we should tear them all down and give the money to the poor or what? The Truth is that these Cathedrals are about the only things that have required lots of people to build something big in Honour of GOD. All other Religious Buildings are given over to idols of some kind, or are Jewish, which whilst reverent, if they dont accept Christ it doesnt matter does it?

Cathedrals are huge undertakings that show that GOD was worth the effort of building them. I think some people dont realize what a Glorifying process some of the Cathedrals are. How even in a world which has abandoned Christianity, these Buildings are like Army Bases in the middle of an occupied land. Becons of night where the daily cycle of prayer and praise is unendingly repeated, over and over and over again. Just like it is within the throneroom of Heaven itself. A Magnificent Space dedicated to nothing but prayer and worship to the Only GOD. The more Beautiful, the more money thats been spent on it, the more the financial cost to those who set it up, who were prepared to invest hundreds for the sake of producing nothing but a space in which to pray and worship.

You wouldnt get people that passionate anymore. They spend their money on getting drunk, or prostituion, or lottery tickets. Because GOD evidently is not worth spending that sorta stupid amount of money on. Look at the storm that the cost of the Olympics is creating in London? Are they worth the money? many people would tell you NO. Its a sign of apathy, that we perceive nothing as worth the price asked for it...not even for self glory, or for honour.

In past times people DIED creating these monumental Structures...people died creating structures for other gods and even other people. If you were married would you love your Wife enough to build THIS for her tomb?

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2504/tajmahal.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tajmahal.jpg/)


Its nothing but a Mauseleum for a single Woman. People just dont care like they used to, about other people...or, seemingly, about their GOD. They forget that a Cathedral has probably been on the site for hundreds of years, that the walls and floors are soaked in prayer and praise from countless generations. Nope, knock em down and give the money to the poor instead. Bloody Philistines :angry:
No, I don't have anything against the concept of a cathedral. In specific cases, such as St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, I do have "something against" them. St. Peter's was funded by the sale of indulgences. Johann Tetzel preached "As soon as a coin in the coffer springs, the soul from purgatory springs". I think that it was wrong to teach that concept and build a cathedral with profits from that sort of preaching.
I was lamenting the fact that the cathedrals are now primarily tourist destinations and usually aren't filled with worshippers.
I was also lamenting the fact that Europe is allowing mass immigration of Muslims. While I'm sure some are good citizens, there is a significant number of crazies and your government doesn't seem to have the stomach to deal with them. Unfortunately, I could see those cathedrals becoming 22nd or 23rd century Hagia Sophias. The following article should give reason for pause:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994045/A-fifth-of-European-Union-will-be-Muslim-by-2005.html

A fifth of European Union will be Muslim by 2050
Britain, Spain and Holland will have an even higher proportion of Muslims in a shorter amount of time, an investigation by The Telegraph shows.

Last year, five per cent of the total population of the 27 EU countries was Muslim. But rising levels of immigration from Muslim countries and low birth rates among Europe's indigenous population mean that, by 2050, the figure will be 20 per cent, according to forecasts.

Data gathered from various sources indicate that Britain, Spain and Holland will have an even higher proportion of Muslims in a shorter amount of time.

The UK, which currently has 20 million fewer people than Germany, is also projected to be the EU's most populous country by 2060, with 77 million people.

The findings have led to allegations that policy-makers are failing to confront the widespread challenges of the "demographic time bomb".

Experts say that there has been a lack of debate on how the population changes will affect areas of life from education and housing to foreign policy and pensions.

Although some polls have pointed to a lack of radicalisation in the Muslim community, little attention is being given to the integration of migrants, it is claimed, with fears of social unrest in years to come.

Tyburn
08-09-2009, 09:29 PM
No, I don't have anything against the concept of a cathedral. In specific cases, such as St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, I do have "something against" them. St. Peter's was funded by the sale of indulgences. Johann Tetzel preached "As soon as a coin in the coffer springs, the soul from purgatory springs". I think that it was wrong to teach that concept and build a cathedral with profits from that sort of preaching.
I was lamenting the fact that the cathedrals are now primarily tourist destinations and usually aren't filled with worshippers.
I was also lamenting the fact that Europe is allowing mass immigration of Muslims. While I'm sure some are good citizens, there is a significant number of crazies and your government doesn't seem to have the stomach to deal with them. Unfortunately, I could see those cathedrals becoming 22nd or 23rd century Hagia Sophias. The following article should give reason for pause:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994045/A-fifth-of-European-Union-will-be-Muslim-by-2005.html



Well alot of the Church of England Cathedrals WERE Roman Catholic before the Reformation. But most of them were built long before the Roman Catholic Church was big or powerful, by simple Bishops who came, and the response from a liberated nation of Heathen to build something to honour GOD just as others had before them built to honour past kings, or idols.


How is it you sit in nice Houses and I have none?? A question that GOD asks the men who lived in luxiury. Where is HIS House :huh: Where is HIS special place:huh: Where is the community can HE reside :huh: Dont assume that because he is omnipotent...he doesnt want to be shown the same courtesy as anyone else. They say why build GOD a house when he is everywhere. Build Him a Home because he WANTS a Home, not because he needs one. Build Him a home because it will make Him happy. Why would you wish unhappiness towards the one whom you love?? GOD appreciates the time, money, effort, and labour involved in producing something big PURELY wasted on HIM. Afterall...wasnt there the guy who told Mary off for wasting perfume by washing Christs feet with it??? Wasnt it suggested to her that she could sell it for a fair price and give the money to the poor?? Anyone Care to respond with what Jesus had to say on the matter?? Something along the lines of its money well spent on me :ninja:


The Minor Prophet called Haggai said "go up to the mountain and bring wood, and build the house, and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, Saith The Lord....Who is left amoung you that saw this house in her first glory? and how do you see it now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as to nothing?.... I will fill this house with Glory, Saith The Lord of hosts. The Silver is mine, and the gold is mine, Saith the Lord of Hosts. The glory of thise latter house shall be greater then of the former, saith the Lord of hosts, and in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord of Hosts...

The Cathedrals will never be turned into Mosques so long as Christians are PASSIONATE about why they are their in the first place. I imagine its more difficult in America where there are far FEWER of these Holy Places to begin with. In England almost every major City has at least one, some have more depending on the diocise of different denominations. If we forget their importance...thats when the Muslims come in...but I tell you something...the Islamists recognise that their god is worth the dedication of such feats. Thats why they wouldnt dream of breaking down the Cathedrals. Its a shame that Christians do not realize that GOD also appreciates such Monuments Dedicated to Him, existing for NO OTHER PURPOSE then to be dedicated specifically to Him. He is actually worth that...and if WE as Christians are responsible for LETTING the Islamists take over our Churches, it is WE not THEM who are pushing GOD out.

Then he will ask the Same Question he asked Israel. Why are you sitting in your nice Home, and I dont have one :sad:

Out of Interest, may I ask, where is your nearest Cathedral? and to which Denomination of the Church does it belong?

Play The Man
08-09-2009, 09:51 PM
Out of Interest, may I ask, where is your nearest Cathedral? and to which Denomination of the Church does it belong?

Answering that question would give away the location of my secret retreat.:ninja: As best I know America doesn't have anything on the scale of Europe. There are large churches in Washington D.C., New York, and other large cities that could probably be called cathedrals.

Play The Man
08-09-2009, 10:20 PM
The Cathedrals will never be turned into Mosques so long as Christians are PASSIONATE about why they are their in the first place. I imagine its more difficult in America where there are far FEWER of these Holy Places to begin with. In England almost every major City has at least one, some have more depending on the diocise of different denominations. If we forget their importance...thats when the Muslims come in...but I tell you something...the Islamists recognise that their god is worth the dedication of such feats. Thats why they wouldnt dream of breaking down the Cathedrals. Its a shame that Christians do not realize that GOD also appreciates such Monuments Dedicated to Him, existing for NO OTHER PURPOSE then to be dedicated specifically to Him. He is actually worth that...and if WE as Christians are responsible for LETTING the Islamists take over our Churches, it is WE not THEM who are pushing GOD out.


I am sure the Christians of Byzantium never thought the Hagia Sophia would be a mosque.

It is already happening to your churches. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,475177,00.html

A battle to turn a former Christian church into a mosque underscored Britain’s unease with its Muslim minority.

CLITHEROE, England-- On a chilly night this winter, this pristine town in some of Britain’s most untouched countryside voted to allow a former Christian church to become a mosque.

The narrow vote by the municipal authorities marked the end of a bitter struggle by the tiny Muslim population to establish a place of worship, one that will put a mosque in an imposing stone Methodist church that had been used as a factory since its congregation dwindled away 40 years ago.

The battle underscored Britain’s unease with its Muslim minority, and particularly the infiltration of terrorist cells among the faithful, whose devotion has challenged an increasingly secular Britain’s sense of itself.

Britain may continue to regard itself as a Christian nation. But practicing Muslims are likely to outnumber church-attending Christians in several decades, according to a recent survey by Christian Research, a group that specializes in documenting the status of Christianity in Britain.

More conspicuous than ever in both the halls of power and in working-class neighborhoods, Britain’s 1.6 million Muslims, about 2.7 percent of the population, are at once alienated and increasingly assertive.

In Clitheroe, the tussle involved a passionate young professional of Pakistani descent coming up against the raw nerves of tradition-bound local residents.

“We’ve been trying to get a place of worship for 30 years,” said Sheraz Arshad, 31, the Muslim leader here, his voice rattling around the empty old Mount Zion Methodist Church that will house his mosque. “It’s fitting it is a church: it is visually symbolic, the coming together of religions.”

On a recent Sunday, only one child turned up to Sunday school classes. The story books, paper and pencils lay unused as an elderly teacher tutored the 6-year-old boy in an otherwise empty room.

In contrast, Shamim Ahmed Miah, 26, a British-born mufti of Pakistani origin in Accrington, a town next to Clitheroe, teaches 30 Arabic and Koranic students, ages 5 to 15, in three sessions daily.

As for the new mosque, there will be no obvious changes to the church’s exterior, though the cross at the top will come down.

Tyburn
08-09-2009, 10:34 PM
Answering that question would give away the location of my secret retreat.:ninja: As best I know America doesn't have anything on the scale of Europe. There are large churches in Washington D.C., New York, and other large cities that could probably be called cathedrals.
We cant be responsible for the Methodist Churches...there are a lot of empty Methodist Churches because they use a Circuit system. One Minister will look after a group of churches travelling to a different one each week, many are in the countryside and have...well no congregation.

Others end up as storage houses or wearhouses.

A church btw is no longer a Church if it has been deconsecrated. The Byzantium Constantinople was quite different. Islamists simply arriving and occuping an odd uninhabited and deconsecrated Church, is a bit different, to a full scale war and land invasion. Which is what happened to Constantinople.

Play The Man
08-09-2009, 11:00 PM
We cant be responsible for the Methodist Churches...there are a lot of empty Methodist Churches because they use a Circuit system. One Minister will look after a group of churches travelling to a different one each week, many are in the countryside and have...well no congregation.

Others end up as storage houses or wearhouses.

A church btw is no longer a Church if it has been deconsecrated. The Byzantium Constantinople was quite different. Islamists simply arriving and occuping an odd uninhabited and deconsecrated Church, is a bit different, to a full scale war and land invasion. Which is what happened to Constantinople.



True, the means were different, but the ends were the same

Tyburn
08-09-2009, 11:56 PM
lets get this topic back on track.

Although the last British Veteran has died...there are still afew remaining in allied countries no :huh: perhaps we should think of asking one of them to come over and lay the wreath and the cenotaph this year as...well there will be noone left to do it :sad:

of course I suspect they will be much to old to travel the hours it would take to get to England :unsure-1:

Play The Man
08-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Earlier in this thread, it mentions that an American, an Australian (of English birth), and a Canadian are still living. At their ages, that could change any day, unfortunately.

Tyburn
08-11-2009, 06:42 PM
:cry: How Strange. I wonder how many men singing that song knew Ironically where they would probably be ten years on :unsure-1: We have noone left this year :sad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvi1-NhQdMs

Listen to the Lyrics of the very last Song. What do you notice?

Crisco
08-11-2009, 08:03 PM
It would be interesting if someone got rid of the dome of the rock.

Tyburn
08-11-2009, 10:35 PM
It would be interesting if someone got rid of the dome of the rock.
:huh: What do you mean by that?

I dont mean to be rude...but the Dome of The Rock isnt quite on the exact location of the Jewish Temple, we know this because of something called "The Wailing Wall" which is all thats left of the original building.

Its quite possible that the two will co-exist in extremely close proximity to one another. The Millenial Temple also has clear Schematics drawn up in the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel. Its not the same building as The Dome of The Rock. The Millenial Temple isnt even the same design as what we think the older Temple was. Same Layout and Style I think, same components, but the size and exact structure are different

Everyone has forgotten something Important anyway. You cant Truely have The Temple without The Ark of The Covernant. Although I actually think that Relic will never be found, and I shall tell you why. The Ark was supposed to be a Throne for GOD, He was supposed to make himself between the two Angels, thats His Location within the Holy of Holies. Now, as Christ will be on Earth, He will be the Representation of the Law, so all he will need is a Throne to Sit on. I bet you it will basically look like the top of the Ark. I bet he shall sit on a Wooden Chair coated in Gold, and the arms of the chairs will have two large Cherubs Facing North and South, as he sits in the East Facing the West, between those Cherub Statues...or perhaps...not even that. Perhaps there will be REAL Cherubs standing as a Gaurd to his left and right? I suppose there is no need to carve them when if Christ will be physically Present, why should he not bring a Heavenly Entourage?

So what becomes of the Dome or The Rock I dont know. Perhaps it will remain intact and the Temple will appear right next to it. Perhaps it will be taken over by Jewish or Christians and modified to fit the Millenial Temple Design. Maybe it will be flattened at some point, and the Temple will rise upon the same site as encourperating a much larger site. I dont know.

I do believe that We are Called for Judgement, and there is, I think a large chance that that occures within the temporal Realm (what else will Christ be doing for a whole Millenia?) He has come to Judge the World...perhaps its literal. Perhaps you and I will both be tried, after death, in a future Chronological point of time. It would also explain why he then steps back into Heaven for some time after the Reign, before Armageddon...AFTER Judgement I reckon. I also aggree that whilst that is going on, the Sacrifices of the Ancient Jews will once again be insituted. They would not dare to slip up on that were he actually in physical residence of the Temple. This, interestingly means, that we know at least One out of the Twelve bloodline MUST continue unbroken all the way through from Jacob, to Millenial Reign....For there must be a Priest...and He must specifically be of the Tribe of Levi...The Law has a name...its called "Leviticus" and its Ceremonial is carried out exclusively by Levites who are basically one of Twelve Clans...they are the only Tribe that can do what needs to be done.

If I were a Film Director, you know I would be writing a movie about an evil who was creating a biological weapon to attack an individual family....because imagine what would happen if eleven out of the Twelve tribes made it...and the one missing was Levi :ninja: :laugh:

Crisco
08-12-2009, 07:33 PM
:huh: What do you mean by that?



I just think the muslim holy place shouldn't be around anymore is all. Earthquake or some divine intervention preferably when no one is inside.

Tyburn
08-12-2009, 07:51 PM
Crisco....do you understand WHY the Dome of The Rock is Sacred to Islam?

It matters, because its not just another synagog which has been overun. Its actually along the same lines as some of my spiele above.

Do you remember when Issiac was nearly sacrificed? Do you know WHERE that was supposed to have taken place?

Remember that the Jews and Islam have a common Patriarch...infact TWO common Patriarchs. Trace the bloodline back prior to the Tweleve Tribes and you have The Father Tribe. Abraham.

We know the Human Heir Bloodline was altered TWICE in THREE Generations by GODs divine intervention to get from Abraham to Jacob. If you do not stand by GODs intervention, you meet the rest of the Family.

YES, Its a family Dispute!! Between Tribal Cousins

So of course they are likely to BOTH consider the SAME places Sacred as they have some of the same circumstances in a common Family History. Sometimes people put so much onus on the Faith...they forget what came first. The Family.

:laugh:

Crisco
08-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Crisco....do you understand WHY the Dome of The Rock is Sacred to Islam?

It matters, because its not just another synagog which has been overun. Its actually along the same lines as some of my spiele above.

Do you remember when Issiac was nearly sacrificed? Do you know WHERE that was supposed to have taken place?

Remember that the Jews and Islam have a common Patriarch...infact TWO common Patriarchs. Trace the bloodline back prior to the Tweleve Tribes and you have The Father Tribe. Abraham.

We know the Human Heir Bloodline was altered TWICE in THREE Generations by GODs divine intervention to get from Abraham to Jacob. If you do not stand by GODs intervention, you meet the rest of the Family.

YES, Its a family Dispute!! Between Tribal Cousins

So of course they are likely to BOTH consider the SAME places Sacred as they have some of the same circumstances in a common Family History. Sometimes people put so much onus on the Faith...they forget what came first. The Family.

:laugh:


David the Dome of the Rock is sacred because that is where the muslims believe mohammed ascended to heaven if I'm not mistaken sir.

Tyburn
08-14-2009, 10:06 PM
David the Dome of the Rock is sacred because that is where the muslims believe mohammed ascended to heaven if I'm not mistaken sir.
:blink:

No The Prophet died. He was NOT assumpted.

He got a Fever...or maybe he was poisened by his enemies. Anyway, he knew he was dying when he became ill, and he told people that his god had given him the choice of living, or of dying and going to paradise...and The Prophet had chosen to die.

But his ailment was really quite nasty. Not sure exactly what he died of, but it was painful and he was surrounded by his Wife and Daughter. Then on June 8th 632, there was much rejoycing as it seemed that The fever had abated. He had a habit of singing The Call for one of the main Mosques, obviously he had been forced to give that up when he fell ill. Well on June 8th he actually attended for the first time sinse falling ill.

Well...he died that evening in the presence of his Wife and Daughter

These are his last words:

"with the supreme communion in paradise, with those upon whom god hath showered his favour, the prophets, the saints, the martyrs and the righteous, most excellent for communion are they. O god, with the supreme communion"

So...You are mistaken indeed.

I know all this because I had Islamic friends at University, and one of them bought me "Muhammad, His Life based on the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings :laugh:

Tyburn
08-14-2009, 10:07 PM
David the Dome of the Rock is sacred because that is where the muslims believe mohammed ascended to heaven if I'm not mistaken sir.
:blink:

No The Prophet died. He was NOT assumpted.

He got a Fever...or maybe he was poisened by his enemies. Anyway, he knew he was dying when he became ill, and he told people that his god had given him the choice of living, or of dying and going to paradise...and The Prophet had chosen to die.

But his ailment was really quite nasty. Not sure exactly what he died of, but it was painful and he was surrounded by his Wife and Daughter. Then on June 8th 632, there was much rejoycing as it seemed that The fever had abated. He had a habit of singing The Call for one of the main Mosques, obviously he had been forced to give that up when he fell ill. Well on June 8th he actually attended for the first time sinse falling ill.

Well...he died that evening in the presence of his Wife and Daughter

These are his last words:

"with the supreme communion in paradise, with those upon whom god hath showered his favour, the prophets, the saints, the martyrs and the righteous, most excellent for communion are they. O god, with the supreme communion"

So...You are mistaken indeed.

I know all this because I had Islamic friends at University, and one of them bought me "Muhammad, His Life based on the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings :laugh:

Crisco
08-14-2009, 10:09 PM
:blink:

No The Prophet died. He was NOT assumpted.

He got a Fever...or maybe he was poisened by his enemies. Anyway, he knew he was dying when he became ill, and he told people that his god had given him the choice of living, or of dying and going to paradise...and The Prophet had chosen to die.

But his ailment was really quite nasty. Not sure exactly what he died of, but it was painful and he was surrounded by his Wife and Daughter. Then on June 8th 632, there was much rejoycing as it seemed that The fever had abated. He had a habit of singing The Call for one of the main Mosques, obviously he had been forced to give that up when he fell ill. Well on June 8th he actually attended for the first time sinse falling ill.

Well...he died that evening in the presence of his Wife and Daughter

These are his last words:

"with the supreme communion in paradise, with those upon whom god hath showered his favour, the prophets, the saints, the martyrs and the righteous, most excellent for communion are they. O god, with the supreme communion"

So...You are mistaken indeed.

I know all this because I had Islamic friends at University, and one of them bought me "Muhammad, His Life based on the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings :laugh:

I understand that Dave but in muslim fantasy The rock housed within the Dome of the rock is where Mohammed ascended to heaven accompanied by the angel gabriel.

Tyburn
08-14-2009, 10:19 PM
I understand that Dave but in muslim fantasy The rock housed within the Dome of the rock is where Mohammed ascended to heaven accompanied by the angel gabriel.
:blink:

No they dont Crisco. Mainstream Islam says that he died a mortal death on Earth. They do not believe that he was assumpted.

You are getting yourself confused with a revelation that The Prophet is supposed to have received. Its much like the Revelation that was given to Ezekiel when he was transported to see the Millenial Temple. That occured long before his death. It was nothing but an astral projection. It was not an asscension!

There are very few people who have been Assumpted. There was Jesus, and there was a guy called Enoch...and the Roman Catholics like to pretend that Mary was Assumpted also...but there is no proof of that at all :laugh:

The Muslims do not believe that The Prophet was Assumpted, they believe he was given a vision, in which he was transported to the site of the Dome of The Rock...which THEY call Al-Aqsa

The ideology that he visited Jerusalem isnt aggreed upon in Islamic Tradition. Some people assume that is where he went on his jaunt with Gabriel, others do not

Buzzard
08-14-2009, 11:34 PM
:blink:


There are very few people who have been Assumpted. There was Jesus, and there was a guy called Enoch...and the Roman Catholics like to pretend that Mary was Assumpted also...but there is no proof of that at all :laugh:



Where is the proof in any of that?

NateR
08-15-2009, 12:11 AM
Where is the proof in any of that?

In the Bible. Enoch and Elijah were both taken up into Heaven. Jesus ascended into Heaven under His own power; so that is kind of different.

Considering that the Bible is easily the most historically reliable ancient book in the world, it's pretty good evidence.

que
08-15-2009, 05:11 AM
RIP.

Buzzard
08-15-2009, 07:01 AM
Where is the proof in any of that?

I shouldn't have taken the focus away from the vet, for that I'm sorry.

RIP <S>

Tyburn
08-15-2009, 11:36 AM
In the Bible. Enoch and Elijah were both taken up into Heaven. Jesus ascended into Heaven under His own power; so that is kind of different.

Considering that the Bible is easily the most historically reliable ancient book in the world, it's pretty good evidence.
I forgot about Elijah :mellow:

To Differentiate between Christ and the Other two, you generally say that Christ Asscended, whereas the other two were asumpted. But the end result is the same (except in the interesting case that those Assumpted never died, and the one who asscended DID die a mortal death first.

The Theory is that Elijah and Enoch never infact died, they were taken up right to heaven in their PRE ressurectional incarnation...Whereas Christ died a physical death, and was the taken up in His ressurectional incarnation :)

Jonlion
08-15-2009, 03:00 PM
:huh:

The Islamists have their own Mosques in this Country already :laugh:

Have you something against Cathedrals or something :unsure-1: Are you one of these people who thinks we should tear them all down and give the money to the poor or what? The Truth is that these Cathedrals are about the only things that have required lots of people to build something big in Honour of GOD. All other Religious Buildings are given over to idols of some kind, or are Jewish, which whilst reverent, if they dont accept Christ it doesnt matter does it?

Cathedrals are huge undertakings that show that GOD was worth the effort of building them. I think some people dont realize what a Glorifying process some of the Cathedrals are. How even in a world which has abandoned Christianity, these Buildings are like Army Bases in the middle of an occupied land. Becons of night where the daily cycle of prayer and praise is unendingly repeated, over and over and over again. Just like it is within the throneroom of Heaven itself. A Magnificent Space dedicated to nothing but prayer and worship to the Only GOD. The more Beautiful, the more money thats been spent on it, the more the financial cost to those who set it up, who were prepared to invest hundreds for the sake of producing nothing but a space in which to pray and worship.

You wouldnt get people that passionate anymore. They spend their money on getting drunk, or prostituion, or lottery tickets. Because GOD evidently is not worth spending that sorta stupid amount of money on. Look at the storm that the cost of the Olympics is creating in London? Are they worth the money? many people would tell you NO. Its a sign of apathy, that we perceive nothing as worth the price asked for it...not even for self glory, or for honour.

Love this Dave, exactly how i feel. And also the building of a catherdral brought together the community, such as days when the laypeople would volunteer and also the how economy and surounding materials were used and brought in, that linked so many people together. It was a great bonding process for the glory of god.

Read about Abbot Suger and his rebuilding of St Denis, i can try and get a link.

Jonlion
08-15-2009, 03:10 PM
And back onto topic, R.I.P.

It makes me really sad that WW1 will soon be consigned to History with no living people to remind us of the sacrifice and folly of that great War.

The horrors of that war should never be forgotten.

Tyburn
08-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Love this Dave, exactly how i feel. And also the building of a catherdral brought together the community, such as days when the laypeople would volunteer and also the how economy and surounding materials were used and brought in, that linked so many people together. It was a great bonding process for the glory of god.

Read about Abbot Suger and his rebuilding of St Denis, i can try and get a link.
:w00t: yes get a link!! :)

We have to remember that Cathedrals were built in days before the use of trucks and heavy machinaery. Even in this day and age it would cost millions and probably take a year or two to complete.

In the olden days the Cathedrals were built by different crafts...in those times they were called "Guilds" So for example, to plan the Cathedral you would have to get a number of companies to be benefactors. This might be done by aggreeing to have a chapel inside dedicated to some insitution...perhaps a sunken ship, perhaps an Order of Chivilry. Then you would need to make sure the land was available and bought, that would involve the Church who was setting up the Diocise to give permission as well as the local Government Councils. Then you need an Architect to plan it. You need Stone masons to cut the rock needed, haul it to the site, and begin construction. You will need carpentors for the inside furnishings, and you will need someone into Fabrics to begin to make the altar cloths and the copes. You need someone to provide Candles, so thats beeswax from somewhere, you need someone who can cast you some Silver Plate. You need painters and sculptors who will create the artwork, the stained glass, the carvings inside and the mozaics. All these people will be needed to be housed in the local area, and will need accomodation and food costs.

It would, quite litterally involve the ENTIRE city in which the project was going on, and it would take the best part of one of at least two decades minimum. People would die in the process of construction, investors would come and go as funds were easy and then tight.

All for what? To provide a Sacred Space for GOD...TWENTY YEARS in the making...and some dumbass comes along and says they are worthless and give the money to the poor. NO the Money has been given TO GOD, the Time and the Energy completed wasted on GOD...and really on completeion providing nothing but a place for GOD to be honnoured.

Do you know that the Architect of Saint Paul's Cathedral is burried in a remote corner of the OBE Chapel in the crypt, with a plain black little headstone? It has only the Latin Inscription "Reader, if you seek my monument, look around you" Written on it :ninja: He was deeply moved when he went searching through the wreckage of Old Saint Paul's whose lead lined roof melted in the heat of the Great Fire, when he came across an old lump from the building which bore the word "Resurgam" In essence to "rise up" Imagine, as the architect and the person to make that phrase happen, how he felt when he found it!

Saint Paul's Cathedral took THIRTY THREE years to build and its a LATE Cathedral, (Old Saint Pauls took TWO CENTURIES TO BUILD!) relatively modern in terms of Cathedrals built for that purpose! Why next year will see its Three Hundredth Birthday. Well, most present day cathedrals are around about 500-700 years old, since that is when the stone Cathedrals first started to replace the wooden Cathedrals. Saint Paul's is in its Fourth Incarnation so to speak, there have been FOUR past Cathedrals on the site, as each one is distroyed, another version takes its place, in total we have past 1400 Years of some Cathedral on the same site. Its just the modern one is probably one, if not, the last, properly built Stone Cathedral, before they started simply making Normal Parish Churches a Cathedral by Charter...which I find most dissagreeable indeed. Bradford Cathedral is just a glorified Parish Church, it was never built with the idea or purpose of being a Cathedral...and as we've said above, that is absolutely paramount to what a Cathedral is. You cant just give a small church a charter and expect it to be a Cathedral, because a Cathedral is a city wide project of years of pain and toil and money, solely for the purpose of building something that has GODs name on it.

Just to let you know of a few facts, Saint Paul's Dome is three domes, the inner that you see from inside, the outer which you see from outside, and the stone cone which supports the ball and cross...the Ball beneith the Cross can fit TEN PEOPLE inside it. Wren was nearly 80 by the time the Cathedral was complete...of course its still an ongoing process, I mean various bits have already been replace...including The Ball and Cross...Goodness knows what they did with the original...as ive said above...its like a large room on top of the cathedral :laugh: I remember when they had the scafolding in the dome to clean the paintings, the scafolding rotated...and it was held up by a chord which was attached to the Ball and Cross...it hung there on this...not very large chord :unsure: which every tom, dick and harry could see when they came to the Golden Gallery and this...chord came up through the hole in the floor and went into a hole in the ceiling above...I remember touching it thinking...:unsure-1: Not sure this is such a good idea...I also recall the day it first rotated when I was on early...I have NEVER heard such a terrific noise...I thought the sky was falling down :mellow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynY7Y7_DeBs