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View Full Version : Well, i'm already in the doghouse....


adamt
07-25-2009, 03:40 AM
So why not get it all out there while i'm here? No point in doing it again when i get back in the right with people. which i have lurked for three years and noone still knows me, so it's not like I got alot to lose.


I am going to now accuse everyone that went, goes, or send there kids to public school of being just as bad as the ghetto bums on welfare. They get all their material needs met by the government on someone else's dime, how is that any different from you getting educated or getting your child educated on someone else's dime. Here in Iowa it is mainly the farmers and businesses that have property. Whether the property is paid for or not they get taxed to support schools. And what all do they learn at school? Why should I pay for someone else's kid to get educated?

I have heard people on "food stamps" demeaned here on the forums, so why is "education stamps" any different?









Okay having said that, and I am totally anti obamuh and anti obamuhcare, but if you aren't against universal education (if you can call it that), aren't you two faced to be against universal healthcare?
should you be "holier than thou" against welfared citizens?

I'm against both.

DISCLAIMER
IF IT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU DON'T TAKE OFFENSE IF YOU AGREE THEN DON'T GET MAD

Chris F
07-25-2009, 04:11 AM
We already had this fight before and I am hoping it is not dragged back up sense peoples feelings were deeply hurt. I know there are some homeschool families like myself on here but I also know there are many who like to send their kids to the states free tax payer paid indoctrination centers.

Rev
07-25-2009, 04:19 AM
lol. MAN u 2 love to debate!!!!!!!!!!

Chris F
07-25-2009, 04:26 AM
lol. MAN u 2 love to debate!!!!!!!!!!

I do not see it as a debate so much as a critical discussion. I can;t help it. When I teach at the college I do the same thing some time taking a view I disagree with just to draw more thought out of a person. This subject I happen to be very passionate about, to much so. Last time I really hurt some feelings because they misunderstood my strong convictions for ridicule on their parenting. My personal belief is no Christian parent in their right mind would send their child to the public schools. And my political belief is public schools are welfare.

Rev
07-25-2009, 04:31 AM
Well, I have thick skin so dont worry about me on anything, but I can see why some people would be upset from some of the post that I have seen on this forum. Like I said I can take it and if you're cool with it, roll on. I just tend to punch with a softer glove.lol

But I wont cave on solid doctrine. just so yall know.

adamt
07-25-2009, 02:34 PM
But I wont cave on solid doctrine. just so yall know.


well said,, we are just babbling about the fringe issues...... and that is not sarcastic at all we are really just babbling over gray areas, i don't see it as core, solid doctrine.

Neither one is going to convince the other. :)

In fact I think chris and I would be in complete agreement on this.


I don't care if people send their kids to public school. More power to them. I don't care if their is universal healthcare. I am merely making the point of the double standard that is out there, that public school is okay while welfare is abusing the system.

Tyburn
07-25-2009, 04:31 PM
Just pay your taxes and stop complaining :laugh:

OR

Just refuse to pay your taxes and overthrow your Government :frantics:

But stop complaining at having to either pay taxes, or help other people in some common aim. Stop talking like the narrow spectrum of homeschooling, or the broad spectrum of state/public schools are better/worse.

Dont even think of telling some of the parents on here what to do with their children. Do not even think of criticising some parents for the choices they have made for the best education for their children according to their own opinion...that would be your opinion, and it should stay inside you, since it has absolutely no bearing on anyones family but your own. That warning had better be followed, because if we have the same strife we had before, this time action will be taken pre-emptively :ninja: think shock and awe people :laugh:


At the end of the day it is rightful for you to pay taxes...what the Government spend that money on is, none of your business...just like what you choose to do privately is none of their business...or do the same rules not actually apply to you?

...now...Continue :)

NateR
07-25-2009, 05:29 PM
Well, I will agree that our current public school system has really just become a series of left-wing indoctrination camps.

I went to public school in Santa Fe, NM, one of the most liberal cities in the nation. We were taught the purest forms of Darwinian Evolution. The students who believed in Biblical Creation were usually allowed to voice their opinions in science class, but it was only to give the teachers the opportunity to ridicule them publicly. We were taught the "values" of Feminism and transcendental meditation in English class. We learned how open minded and progressive religions like Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism were and how closed minded Christianity was, in Social Studies. We even had a German language teacher who would show pornographic German films to the class, so we could learn about German culture. Pretty much everything that is going on at college campuses right now I was dealing with in public school as early as 6th grade.

However, it has not always been like this. Public schooling is a Christian concept and was originally intended to be an evangelism tool. In fact, the very first public schools in America had only two books on the required reading list: the Holy Bible and the New England Primer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_England_Primer).

Here is an example of one of the lessons from the New England Primer, you can see that the concept of "separation of church and state" was not something that existed in the early days of America:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/Barada73/NewEnglandPrimerAtoM.jpg

In fact, "separation of church and state" was invented in the 1950s based on an out of context quote from Thomas Jefferson.

Unfortunately, the Left-Wing Secular Progressives took over our schools in the 1970s and it's been a sharp downhill slide ever since. For the first time in any nations history, we've had generation after generation becoming increasingly less intelligent since the 1960s. In other words, My brother and I are less educated than our parents and my nephews will be even less educated than me and my brother.

Personally, I believe that's the Progressive's plan, if you have children who aren't capable of even reading the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, in it's original form, then how can they possibly understand what their freedoms are? It gives the Secular Progressives the power to rewrite the Constitution at will because all the ignorant public-school students aren't smart enough to know any better.

But I digress, my whole point is that you are condemning the system based on the corrupt form that it takes today. It wasn't always this way. Just like hospitals weren't always run by greedy mega-corporations and doctors weren't always the glorified drug-dealers that many have become today.

In fact, the idea that every child deserved an education, regardless of social class, and every person deserved access to medical care were originally Christian concepts. Like public schools, early hospitals were founded by Christians and used as evangelism tools (nurses would often sit with the patients and read the Bible to them).

Unfortunately, like every human run institution, public schools, hospitals and churches are ripe for corruption and their values have decayed over the years/decades/centuries.

NateR
07-25-2009, 05:33 PM
At the end of the day it is rightful for you to pay taxes...what the Government spend that money on is, none of your business..

That's absolute nonsense, Dave.

Boomer
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
That's absolute nonsense, Dave.

+1

adamt
07-25-2009, 06:40 PM
That's absolute nonsense, Dave.
+2

adamt
07-25-2009, 06:42 PM
the discussion is all well and good, BUT my original point still stands ....

This is not public school vs home school, this is "public school is the same as welfare" and "public school is the same as public healthcare"

NateR
07-25-2009, 06:53 PM
the discussion is all well and good, BUT my original point still stands ....

This is not public school vs home school, this is "public school is the same as welfare" and "public school is the same as public healthcare"

Do you drive a car? Don't tax dollars pay to maintain the highways? So, if you drive on roads, aren't you just as guilty of leaching off the government as bums on welfare?

Play The Man
07-25-2009, 07:30 PM
That's absolute nonsense, Dave.We are obligated to pay taxes; however, we need to give more input on where the money is spent, not less (or none).

NateR
07-25-2009, 07:43 PM
We are obligated to pay taxes; however, we need to give more input on where the money is spent, not less (or none).

Exactly, we need to hold our elected Representatives accountable for how they spend OUR tax money.

Play The Man
07-25-2009, 08:00 PM
Well, I will agree that our current public school system has really just become a series of left-wing indoctrination camps.

I went to public school in Santa Fe, NM, one of the most liberal cities in the nation. We were taught the purest forms of Darwinian Evolution. The students who believed in Biblical Creation were usually allowed to voice their opinions in science class, but it was only to give the teachers the opportunity to ridicule them publicly. We were taught the "values" of Feminism and transcendental meditation in English class. We learned how open minded and progressive religions like Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism were and how closed minded Christianity was, in Social Studies. We even had a German language teacher who would show pornographic German films to the class, so we could learn about German culture. Pretty much everything that is going on at college campuses right now I was dealing with in public school as early as 6th grade.

However, it has not always been like this. Public schooling is a Christian concept and was originally intended to be an evangelism tool. In fact, the very first public schools in America had only two books on the required reading list: the Holy Bible and the New England Primer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_England_Primer).

Here is an example of one of the lessons from the New England Primer, you can see that the concept of "separation of church and state" was not something that existed in the early days of America:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/Barada73/NewEnglandPrimerAtoM.jpg

In fact, "separation of church and state" was invented in the 1950s based on an out of context quote from Thomas Jefferson.

Unfortunately, the Left-Wing Secular Progressives took over our schools in the 1970s and it's been a sharp downhill slide ever since. For the first time in any nations history, we've had generation after generation becoming increasingly less intelligent since the 1960s. In other words, My brother and I are less educated than our parents and my nephews will be even less educated than me and my brother.

Personally, I believe that's the Progressive's plan, if you have children who aren't capable of even reading the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, in it's original form, then how can they possibly understand what their freedoms are? It gives the Secular Progressives the power to rewrite the Constitution at will because all the ignorant public-school students aren't smart enough to know any better.

But I digress, my whole point is that you are condemning the system based on the corrupt form that it takes today. It wasn't always this way. Just like hospitals weren't always run by greedy mega-corporations and doctors weren't always the glorified drug-dealers that many have become today.

In fact, the idea that every child deserved an education, regardless of social class, and every person deserved access to medical care were originally Christian concepts. Like public schools, early hospitals were founded by Christians and used as evangelism tools (nurses would often sit with the patients and read the Bible to them).

Unfortunately, like every human run institution, public schools, hospitals and churches are ripe for corruption and their values have decayed over the years/decades/centuries.
I agree. It amazes me how much they can politicize education, down to the youngest grade levels. At this point in time, I am glad that this concept of separation of church and state is in force (although, I agree with you that it isn't what the founders intended). If we had religion in the schools it would be either "New Age" or Universalist, it would not be Christian, even if they taught some quotes from the Bible to justify it. I would be happy if the public schools could just be neutral. Don't undermine my authority as a parent and teach things that are contrary to my beliefs. You would think they could teach things like math and grammar without indoctrinating students; however, even those subjects aren't safe. It is worse with more controversial subjects like history and science. Another problem is that the schools can't, or won't, discipline students, so thugs run roughshod over many public schools.

I remember reading that at one point, the New England Puritans had a plan to have schools available throughout the colonies to teach Greek to every able man so the New Testament could be read in the original language.

As a side note, I noticed in other threads that NateR is an artist. I wish a Christian artist would update the pictures of the New England Primer with modern, color pictures to engage today's children. The available facsimile copies have less-detailed, tiny, "rough", woodcuts. I would bet that the New England Primer is in the public realm and not copyrighted. I wish a talented artist would update it with large, colorful, detailed pictures that would draw a young child into the book. Perhaps, it could become widely read again.

Rev
07-25-2009, 08:44 PM
Do you drive a car? Don't tax dollars pay to maintain the highways? So, if you drive on roads, aren't you just as guilty of leaching off the government as bums on welfare?
OOOOHH!!!!! Good round for Nate!!!

Play The Man
07-25-2009, 08:57 PM
I am a critic of welfare, as it has been administered in this country, but I am not against the concept of helping my fellow man or supporting my community. I believe that certain people, such as children, mentally retarded people, severely mentally ill individuals, and people with physical handicaps that make employment extremely difficult (if not impossible) need support and help from other people. This help can come from government, charities, family, or other individuals; charities do it better than government, in my opinion, but government should be a backstop to prevent vulnerable people from suffering deprivation. I am against welfare for adult, able-bodied individuals. I think people need to be more generous to charities. I believe that, given a choice, people would probably send their kids to a private school vs. a public school. I wish school vouchers would get a fair trial on a large scale; school choice could shake things up and help make the public school system more accountable. I wish all parents would provide for their own child's education; however, unfortunately, there are too many irresponsible parents out there and pulling the plug on public funding of education, altogether, would leave many children growing up in ignorance and poverty, with no chance for upward mobility, due to the fault of the parents. Publicly-funded education, whether in a public school or via a voucher in a private school, at least gives a vulnerable child a lifeline.

adamt
07-25-2009, 11:10 PM
Do you drive a car? Don't tax dollars pay to maintain the highways? So, if you drive on roads, aren't you just as guilty of leaching off the government as bums on welfare?


YES that's my point exactly!!! bums on welfare get the bad rap when we're no better than they are!

Of course gas taxes are for roads so the more gas you buy the more roads you pave, and property taxes have absolutely nothing to do with schools, so there are families with 2,3, or 4 kids in school that might pay nothing, while families with no kids in school that might pay thousands.

Chris F
07-25-2009, 11:51 PM
I think what Adam is possibly saying here is most people do not use the school system yet they still have to pay the tax and at last study most parents of public school kids in the majority of the urban cities of America do not pay taxes for their kids to attend school because most cities pay for it via property taxes. So why should a 70 year old single home owner pay taxes for a single mother with 10 kids who lives in a HUD home? That is welfare. Whereas Nate suggested roads and we ALL use them so we should all pay for them same as the police, fire dept, water treatments etc. But not everyone uses the school and very few pay for it. So roads vs educational system is not a fair comparison.

Play The Man
07-26-2009, 02:00 AM
YES that's my point exactly!!! bums on welfare get the bad rap when we're no better than they are!

Of course gas taxes are for roads so the more gas you buy the more roads you pave, and property taxes have absolutely nothing to do with schools, so there are families with 2,3, or 4 kids in school that might pay nothing, while families with no kids in school that might pay thousands.

I see your point. I don't think it is fair for a farmer (because he has a large acreage to farm his crops) to have to pay for a highly disproportionate share of the tax burden for the public school system. Perhaps parents could at least pay something, in the form of a user fee; not necessarily the full cost of the student's education (that would be thousands of dollars), but at least several hundred dollars, to help offset some of the burden.

mikthehick
07-26-2009, 05:13 AM
I was brought up in public school, and I don't really have any qualms about my own education.

I went to public schools in Jacksonville, NC, Dumfries VA, Manassas, VA, and Woodbridge, VA.

In elementary school, we actually said prayers in the morning, yes in PUBLIC SCHOOL, in the 80s and early 90s. In high school, my group, the FCA, were granted permission to pray in front of the school around the flag pole every morning. It was fantastic.

These days, I know Christians are persecuted in public school, but if you are in a group, then there is a voice. People are losing this perspective.

Dave, it is TOTALLY the responsibility of the citizens to know where their money is going and how the gov't is spending it. You could be part of a socialist regime and not even know it, with your insinuation in the first page of this thread.

Hughes_GOAT
07-26-2009, 05:46 AM
+1
+Juan

MattHughesRocks
07-26-2009, 05:49 AM
Yeah...ding ding ding ding!We have a winner here folks! :laugh:


OOOOHH!!!!! Good round for Nate!!!

Crisco
07-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Just to throw that out there... Without public education you will see a huge spike in crime and general disorder. As well as America falling incredibly behind in the technologies department.

This country would be destroyed without the public education system.

atomdanger
07-27-2009, 08:23 PM
My son = Private School.

Vizion
07-27-2009, 09:15 PM
Just to throw that out there... Without public education you will see a huge spike in crime and general disorder. As well as America falling incredibly behind in the technologies department.

This country would be destroyed without the public education system.
yea, right, sure, OK :laugh: