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adamt
07-24-2009, 07:03 PM
do you believe in it?

why/why not?

Crisco
07-24-2009, 07:11 PM
No one is able to be sinless until they are dead.

Tyburn
07-24-2009, 11:42 PM
are you talking about the supposed unforgivable sin?

Or a sin so bad you'd die if you committed it??

adamt
07-24-2009, 11:59 PM
are you talking about the supposed unforgivable sin?

Or a sin so bad you'd die if you committed it??



the latter....kinda

I was curious how many people were familiar with it. Obviously not many.

eric84
07-25-2009, 12:37 AM
I believe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will cause Spiritual Death, as in, once you get to the point that your willing to Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, your Spiritual Relationship is not with God at all, but with the devil.

Chris F
07-25-2009, 01:05 AM
Yes.

The sin unto death is unbelief in what Chrsit did on the cross. The sin of unbeliefs is blasophey to the Holy Spirit because it is the spirit that draws us and when man chooses to ignore the drawing and continue in unbeleif they will die the seocnd death and go to hell. Simple belief in Jesus is not enough, it must be a belief and trust placed on Him and the cross.

NateR
07-25-2009, 03:08 AM
I was curious how many people were familiar with it. Obviously not many.

I've never heard of it, but you're obviously using an English translation that I'm not too familiar with.

adamt
07-25-2009, 03:25 AM
I've never heard of it, but you're obviously using an English translation that I'm not too familiar with.


google "sin unto death" and review the first three entries

adamt
07-25-2009, 03:26 AM
i am just curious if people feel God still judges people today according to their deeds. Annanais and sapphirra would be an example.

How about the passage about communion being taken with sin on your heart. "that is why some sleep" I believe it says. What are peoples thoughts on that?

NateR
07-25-2009, 05:45 AM
google "sin unto death" and review the first three entries

According to the NKJV, it's the "sin leading to death." Which is a more plain English translation. I would actually have to read 1 John through again, but I think I agree with Chris F. the sin leading to death is simply the rejection of Jesus Christ. I believe John is referring to a spiritual death, not a physical death.

Tyburn
07-25-2009, 12:52 PM
the latter....kinda

I was curious how many people were familiar with it. Obviously not many.
No, there is not a sin that will automatically cause a physical death...although GOD could chose for someone who has comitted a sin to die. Saint Peter was supposed to have been given the power to effect things in the heavens by things he did on Earth. He was supposed to be able to bind people in a spiritual sense aswell as a physical sense, he was also supposedly able to release. But the powerful gift evidently died with him. That might be what you see with any sin related deaths in the book of ACTs. Proof that Saint Peter was actually gifted with a very important tool. Certainly NOT one that was given to the office of Bishop of Rome, which was later translated into the Papacy. No this was a specific gift for a specific person who occupied that role.

Saint Peter is dead, and his Successors do not have the power, although they have, and probably would still say they had various powers. For example. During the Reformation what the Pope did to punish King Henry The Eighth was tell the Roman Catholic Church in England to STOP the Burrial Services of the dead. These Services were supposed to be the blessing of Saint Peters Successors, without such a blessing, they were considered bound, and what Saint Peter bound on Earth could and would be bound in the Heavenly Realm aswell. Effectively, The Vatican was attempting to deny Christians the right to go to heaven. Now sinse we know that only GOD has that power sinse the Bible tells us so...we must therefore note that only ONE man was ever given such a tool, and to the best of our knowledge he may have sent a few people to judgement, but he never denied Access to Heaven. That man was Saint Peter...who has been asleep for an extremely long period of time.

So No. Outside of Peter himself it doesnt and cant happen by mortal interference, though GOD can call anyone to account at any time.


The Second topic, about the unforgivable sin is difficult. Its difficult because it can happen to Christians as well as non Christians. All Non-Christians have rejected Christs gift because they have not of their own freewill upon presentation of the gospel accepted their free prize. Thus they are trialed by the Law, and that can only condemn a mortal.

Therefore we are saying the unforgiveable sin must be one committed by a Christian. Which is difficult since the Bible seems to support as much a Once Saved Always Saved salvation, then it does Salvation Won and Lost. If you take the latter point of view, there is no issue because anyone committing this sin you can claim has been christian previously but isnt at the time they committed the sin.

But the unforgiveable sin has seemingly be committed by Christians. It is supposed that to kill onces self, to committ suicide, is the unforgiveable sin, it is the one sin I guess that will definately lead to your own death, incidently, its a sin as its rejecting the gift GOD gave you of life...AND if you are a Christian, you are effectively distroying the Temple of The Holy Spirit within yourself (not that you can damage the Spirit...but its certainly a rude dessicration that would force the Spirit to Withdraw) It is about the most rude thing you can do...but I dont know if its blasphemey or not.

Some theologians speculate that it is, because you cant repent after you committ the sin, since you are effectively dead the moment you sin.

The Bible isnt clear on this issue...and yet self sacrifice is praised as a martyrdom. A Christian Soldier for example who effectively knowingly kills himself in order that his comerades can survive, well that, says the Scriptures is a show of Love that is the greatest a mortal can produce...and yet seconds before their sacrifice they probably KNOW they will die and CHOOSE to remain with that certainty.

There is little way of knowing, and its an extremely sensative topic, and I swing from one view to the other constantly. I have been suicidal myself at one stage in my life, I have also had to talk to priests when hearing of a suicide if its someone I know or am aquainted to, or any of my family is. I remember calling Saint Paul's in the middle of the night (Got Canon Winkett out of her bed) when my Fathers friend (who was a Priest also) lay down on the train tracks and waited for the Express. His marriage had crumbled from underneith him, and the woman was to blame, she had been cheating on Him, and finally chose to tell him and presented him with the devorce so she could go with her lover.

I didnt know much about the man except for what my Father told me, but it troubled me greatly. :sad: