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Tyburn
07-13-2009, 12:02 AM
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth The First Defeats the Spanish Armada in the English Channel.

Protestantism is Saved

She Celebrated with a Service of Thanksgiving in Saint Paul's Cathedral

:)

Tyburn
07-13-2009, 12:16 AM
Several Years later, the Spanish were to try again.

Elizabeth had done everything to avoid war during the first encounter

This time they sailed in a pre-emptive strike and distroyed the fleet in a Spanish harbour.

Elizabeth decided to celebrate, again, with a service of Thanksgiving, again, in Saint Paul's Cathedral...again :laugh:

Crisco
07-13-2009, 05:41 PM
She definatelt had a way about her. She fought like Henry before he got injured and became a fat slob.

You could tell she picked up some of his warrior spirit.

Tyburn
07-13-2009, 06:30 PM
She definatelt had a way about her. She fought like Henry before he got injured and became a fat slob.

You could tell she picked up some of his warrior spirit.
Yet she put herself in harms way by dithering over the distruction of her personal enemies. She kept delaying and putting off the execution of traitors because they were either family, or they were close friends...

Then she would mourn after their execution :blink:

NateR
07-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Weren't these events chronicled in the movie Elizabeth: The Golden Age? Funny how that film has no problem painting the Catholic Church as evil, but then fails to even mention Queen Elizabeth's Christian faith, turning the entire story into a secular-humanist fantasy.

Tyburn
07-13-2009, 06:56 PM
Weren't these events chronicled in the movie Elizabeth: The Golden Age? Funny how that film has no problem painting the Catholic Church as evil, but then fails to even mention Queen Elizabeth's Christian faith, turning the entire story into a secular-humanist fantasy.
These events are chronicled in History Nathan. Dont know about the film because I've never seen it.

I got my information from what I already know...the dates I got from a four part special on the History Channel. You know when she came to the throne other then a religious crisis, England had no particular significance at all. When she left the thron, England was a super-power in Europe and would remain one until after the second world war almost three hundred and forty years after her death.

Some of the speeches she made are equal in power to some made by Sir Winston Churchill, and Oliver Cromwell during the English Civil War


I think she died 1603 but I could be wrong. :ninja:

Crisco
07-13-2009, 07:53 PM
These events are chronicled in History Nathan. Dont know about the film because I've never seen it.

I got my information from what I already know...the dates I got from a four part special on the History Channel. You know when she came to the throne other then a religious crisis, England had no particular significance at all. When she left the thron, England was a super-power in Europe and would remain one until after the second world war almost three hundred and forty years after her death.

Some of the speeches she made are equal in power to some made by Sir Winston Churchill, and Oliver Cromwell during the English Civil War


I think she died 1603 but I could be wrong. :ninja:

I admired her greatly.

Much more then Henry. Henry was very much still a catholic in his actions he just didn't care for the pope not taking his side in his marital disputes.

Elizabeth took the throne and undid the re-catholic changes commited by Mary and truly started legitimate anti-pope regime.

NateR
07-13-2009, 08:12 PM
These events are chronicled in History Nathan.

Obviously.... :rolleyes:

As usual, in your haste to be confrontational about everything I say, you totally missed the point of my comments.

Crisco
07-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Obviously.... :rolleyes:

As usual, in your haste to be confrontational about everything I say, you totally missed the point of my comments.

lol.

I've come to expect very little in terms of pro-Christian material in the media. I kind of pride myself on it. God said we would know we where doing it right if they hated us.

Tyburn
07-13-2009, 08:16 PM
I admired her greatly.

Much more then Henry. Henry was very much still a catholic in his actions he just didn't care for the pope not taking his side in his marital disputes.

Elizabeth took the throne and undid the re-catholic changes commited by Mary and truly started legitimate anti-pope regime.
Indeed. It the Pope had granted him a divorce, Henry would have remained Catholic. Infact, when he set up the Church of England, he called himself "Defender of The Faith" That was a Title given to him by The Pope, whilst he was still a Roman Catholic for being so dutiful to Rome in his early Reign :laugh:

Mary pretty much tried to undo anything Henry had done, the only way she knew how. Kill the protestants :unsure-1:

Elizabeth was the first True Protestant Monarch. She actually believed in Protestantism...and that was Brave of Her because she only had the Neatherlands as Protestant, the rest of the whole European Scene was Catholic, and they attacked her BECAUSE she was Protestant.

They assasinated her Friend in Neatherlands, (the Spanish, on behalf of Rome) it was practially a Crusade to Free England from the Protestants...and the place she made her Spiritual Home outside of Westminster, was Saint Paul's...always Saint Paul's.

Of course her early Government was full of Roman Catholics, and I believe she went as far as...secretly locking up part of the Roman Contingent in order that they couldnt get to parliament to vote on Protestantism and a True, legal, constitutional, parliamentaty basis for breaking with Rome :laugh:

Yes she had her problems, she was quite the loner, she never married, she wasnt the slightest bit interested in the future of her country AFTER her, until it was vastly to late. She put herself in great harm by not killing her enemies at court who had already been tried for Treason and found guilty, instead she liked to keep them locked up because she knew she couldnt let them out, but didnt want to execute them...even when they staged an active rebbellion on the Streets of London.

She was firecely ambitious and she didnt like others to be...how shall we say...more popular then herself. She would be envious of several military commanders who found public appeal...so much, she'd ban celebrations to be held in their honour, if it looked lie they would be favourite with the public..more then she.

Her Government towards the end of her Reign was accused of...well of corruption in terms of, almost the same type of expenses scandle you saw in England this year. When it happened during the Civil War, Oliver Cromwell abolished Parliament...when it happened in 2009, Gordon Brown pretended it hadnt actually happened. When it happened to Elizabeth, she gave forward the following speech...

...it moved people so much...they forgave parliament :laugh:

It was her last public address before she died :sad:

The Golden Speech


"Mr.Speaker, we perceive your coming is to present thanks unto us. Know I accept them with no less joy than your loves can have desire to offer such a present, and do more esteem it than any treasure, or riches; for those we know how to prize, but loyalty, love, and thanks I account them invaluable; and though God hath raised me high, yet this I account the glory of my crown, that I have reigned with your loves. This makes that I do not so much rejoice that God hath made me to be a queen, as to be a queen over so thankful a people, and to be the means under God to conserve you in safety, and preserve you from danger, yea, to be the instrument to deliver you from dishonour, from shame, and from infamy, to keep you from out of servitude, and from slavery under our enemies, and cruel tyranny, and vile oppression intended against us; for the better understanding whereof, we take very acceptable their intended helps, and chiefly in that it manifested your loves and largeness of hearts to your sovereign. Of myself I must say this, I never was any greedy scraping grasper, nor a strict fast-holding prince, nor yet a waster, my heart was never set upon any worldly goods, but only for my subjects' good. What you do bestow on me I will not hoard up, but receive it to bestow on you again; yea mine own properties I account yours to be expended for your good, and your eyes shall see the bestowing of it for your welfare.

Mr. Speaker, I would wish you and the rest to stand up, for I fear I shall yet trouble you with longer speech.

Mr. Speaker, you give me thanks, I am more to thank you, and I charge you thank them of the Lower House from me; for had I not received knowledge from you, I might a' fallen into the lapse of an error, only for want of true information.

Since I was Queen, yet did I never put my pen to any grant but upon pretext and semblance made me, that it was for the good and avail of my subjects generally, though a private profit to some of my ancient servants, who have deserved well; but that my grants shall be made grievances to my people, an oppressions, to be privileged under colour of our patents, our princely dignity will not suffer it.

When I heard it, I could give no rest unto my thoughts until I had reformed it, and those varlets, lewd persons, abusers of my bounty, shall know I will not suffer it. And, Mr. Speaker, tell the House from me, I take it exceeding grateful, that the knowledge of these things are come unto me from them. And tho' amongst them the principal members are such as are not touched in private, and therefore need not speak from any feeling of the grief, yet we have heard that other gentlemen also of he House, who stand as free, have spoken freely in it; which gives us to know, that no respects or interests have moved them other than the minds they bear to suffer no diminution of our honour and our subjects love unto us. The zeal of which affection rending to ease my people, and knit their hearts unto us, I embrace with a princely care far above all earthly treasures. I esteem my people's love, more than which I desire not to merit: and God, that gave me here to sit, and placed me over you, knows, that I never respected myself, but as your good was conserved in me; yet what dangers, what practices, and what perils I have passed, some if not all of you know; but none of these things do move me, or ever made me fear, but it's God that hath delivered me.

And in my governing this land, I have ever set the last judgement day before mine eyes, and so to rule as I shall be judged and answer before a higher Judge, to whose judgement seat I do appeal: in that never thought was cherished in my heart that tended not to my people's good.

And if my princely bounty have been abused; and my grants turned to the hurt of my people contrary to my will and meaning, or if any in authority under me have neglected or converted what I have committed unto them, I hope God will not lay their culps to my charge.

To be a king, and wear a crown, is a thing more glorious to them that see it than it's pleasant to them that bear it: for myself, I never was so much enticed with the glorious name of a king, or the royal authority of a queen, as delighted that God hath made me his instrument to maintain his truth and glory, and to defend this kingdom from dishonour, damage, tyranny, and oppression. But should I ascribe any of these things to myself or my sexly weakness, I were not worthy to live, and of all most unworthy of the mercies I have received at God's hands, but to God only and wholly all is given and ascribed.

The cares and troubles of a crown I cannot more fitly resemble than to the drugs of a learned physician, perfumed with some aromatical savour, or to bitter pills gilded over, by which they are made more acceptable or less offensive, which indeed are bitter and unpleasant to take; and for my own part, were it not for conscience sake to discharge the duty that God hath lay'd upon me, and to ,maintain his glory, and keep you in safety, in mine own disposition I should be willing to resign the place I hold to any other, and glad to be freed of the glory with the labours, for it is not my desire to live nor to reign, longer than my life and reign shall be for your good. And though you have had and may have many mightier and wiser princes sitting in this seat, yet never had nor shall have any that will love you better.

Thus, Mr. Speaker, I commend me to your loyal loves, and yours to my best care and your further councils; and I pray you, Mr. Controuler and Mr. Secretary, and you of my council, that before these gentlemen depart into their countries, you bring them all to kiss my hand.

Tyburn
07-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Obviously.... :rolleyes:

As usual, in your haste to be confrontational about everything I say, you totally missed the point of my comments.
I'm not Confrontational :angry: :angry: :angry:



















:laugh: You know I love you really Nathan :ashamed:

NateR
07-14-2009, 03:39 AM
I'm not Confrontational :angry: :angry: :angry:



















:laugh: You know I love you really Nathan :ashamed:

Watch Elizabeth: The Golden Age, then come back here and give us your review of it. :fighting0092:

Tyburn
07-14-2009, 01:18 PM
Watch Elizabeth: The Golden Age, then come back here and give us your review of it. :fighting0092:
If I ever watch it, I'll be sure to let you know.

I remember when it came out in the cinema I nearly did...but then I know the story so...I thought it would be better spent watching a different film instead :ashamed:

Tyburn
07-24-2009, 11:08 PM
Did you know that less then forty years after Elizabeth 1st reign had concluded, the English Civil War occured?

Did you also know this happened largely due to the aspirations of future Monarchs who were Scot imports because Elizabeth died without an Heir?

Did you know these Scots wanted to combine the Crowns of England and Scotland...and the English were not to impressed?

Did you also know that the parliamentary system was so corrupt (you'll notice it started right at the very end of Elizabeths Reign) by the time of the third conflict that England was under Martial Law for nearly a whole decade?

King Charles the First, son of James the First who took the throne after Elizabeth, wasnt very nice, and wasnt well liked. He married a Catholic for a start which is forbidden for the Monarchy since the reformation, and he wouldnt listen to the grieviences of his Government. When he tried to silence them they turned nasty, so he was forced out of London, and during the first war, basically pushed all the way up to Scotland

The Second conflict was the backlash from the Royalists which resulted in uprisings, and a partial invasion of Northern England by Scotland, who were acting on behalf of the English King....but it ended badly when the Military Forces controlled by the Parliament basically crushed both the scots and the rebellions. So then they caught and executed Charles the First above a banquetting building. The chopped his head off.

Now remember I said that Scotland was also a Monarchy? This is where it gets confusing. James the First of England, and James the Sixth of Scotland are infact the SAME person....and whilst the Stuart Lineage continued in England, the Scotish Crown as an independant thing seems to have sorta melted into the same thing after the Restoration of the Monarchy.

So Charles The First fleeing to Scotland and using Scots to invade northern England is mute since the whole realm was in theory run by Him. Charles the Second was also in Scotland, and it was his attempt to take the throne as the Heir of his recently executed Father. He failed, but he escaped to France of all places.

With both Charles The First and Charles The Second out of the way. A Five Year Republic occured. This Republic was disbanded by the very Military Leader that made it all happen, Oliver Cromwell, when the Government was found to be Corrupt. He then rulled as a Military Dictator for nearly the same length of time. When he died and his Son was found lacking by the Army, the Republic was reformed, and ran another two years before being dissolved by the Armed Forces, again because of political corruption, at which time they begged for the Kings Return :laugh:

Now these Parliaments werent all quite the same. The Parliament that ran before the Conflict was called "The Long" The Parliament that was created for the Republic, disolved, and then re-established and then re-dissolved was called "The Rump" and the Parliament that was created at the Restoration was "The Convention"

Parliaments had names because they werent quite what they are now. They were a group of locals and a group of barons, and a group of Church Clergy, who was summoned to sit for certain amounts by the Monarch. They werent a permanent institution, so everytime the Parliament broke up, it was effectively being dissolved, who knew when the next parliament would be called, and whether the people on it would be the same or not. So the "Long" Parliament is litterally a referal to "The Parliament which sat for a long time" just like the one before it was "The Short" because it wasnt in session for very long. :blink: