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Vizion
07-02-2009, 02:41 PM
If a Republican were in this situation the media would loop through this by the minute...according to the U.S. Constitution states, in Article II, Section 1: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

B.O. has put online a COLB ("certification of live birth"), which the State of Hawaii doesn't even accept as valid proof of actual birth in Hawaii!:w00t: In fact, several experts have declared that the posted COLB document, which doesn't even list the hospital of birth OR the attending physician, is a fake! W T F ?!?!

How corrupt has this country become?!? The B.O. Admin has laughed off the American constitution...he should be thrown out of office!

Llamafighter
07-02-2009, 03:09 PM
If a Republican were in this situation the media would loop through this by the minute...according to the U.S. Constitution states, in Article II, Section 1: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

B.O. has put online a COLB ("certification of live birth"), which the State of Hawaii doesn't even accept as valid proof of actual birth in Hawaii!:w00t: In fact, several experts have declared that the posted COLB document, which doesn't even list the hospital of birth OR the attending physician, is a fake! W T F ?!?!

How corrupt has this country become?!? The B.O. Admin has laughed off the American constitution...he should be thrown out of office!

"experts" :laugh:
Calling an "invalid document" a fake is pretty funny. I think they dig a little deeper to confirm someone's presidential requirements then you're imagining.

NateR
07-02-2009, 03:30 PM
I think Obama should have been declared unqualified for the Presidency the instant he refused to present a copy of his birth certificate. John McCain was in the exact same position since he was born in Panama (or one of those Central American countries), but he immediately presented a valid Birth Certificate to a judge and the problem was resolved right then and there. What is Obama hiding? If he is a natural born citizen, why can't he simply present a valid birth certificate?

I know that there was a birth certificate posted on his website at one point, but a digital scan does not qualify as a valid birth certificate. If he had the document, why bother posting it on his website, why not just walk it over to the judge and present it in person and resolve the issue once and for all? He's clearly hiding something.

I would say that he should be booted out of office for this, but then we'd be stuck with President Joe Biden; so I don't know if we'd be better off.

rockdawg21
07-02-2009, 04:02 PM
This has actually been challenged by an attorney who's trying to take the case to the Supreme Court.

Also, there were some questionable parts of the birth certificate Barack posted on his website.

http://bogusbirthcertificate.blogspot.com/
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

Vizion
07-02-2009, 04:10 PM
"experts" :laugh:
Calling an "invalid document" a fake is pretty funny. I think they dig a little deeper to confirm someone's presidential requirements then you're imagining.
Maybe they are just making a point.

Vizion
07-02-2009, 04:13 PM
I think Obama should have been declared unqualified for the Presidency the instant he refused to present a copy of his birth certificate. Yep.

NateR
07-02-2009, 04:52 PM
When I lived in southern New Mexico, I couldn't even apply for a job at McDonalds unless I could present a valid birth certificate. If that's a requirement for flipping burgers, then why would NOT be a requirement for the President of the United States?

Obama should never even have been allowed to run for President.

Play The Man
07-02-2009, 06:22 PM
I think the chances of this issue gaining any traction is zero. I remember during the Clinton years many of his opponents spent time and money going after him for Gennifer Flowers, conspiracy theories about Vince Foster's death being a murder rather than a suicide, etc. About the only success the Republicans had during those 8 years was when they presented ideas of their own like "The Contract with America" and welfare reform. The country is in trouble and Obama has already made many mistakes. If you disagree with Obama and his agenda, support his opponents with your time and money and help come up with good alternative ideas. The economy is in shambles, we are deeply in debt and unemployment is rising. The birth certificate isssue is just a distraction. In the words of Clinton's campaign advisors: "It's the economy, stupid!" That strategy carried him to victory in economic circumstances much better than our current economic mess. Pin Obama's management of the economy on him and he loses; concentrate on things like the birth certificate and he wins a second term.

atomdanger
07-02-2009, 10:59 PM
How corrupt has this country become?!? The B.O. Admin has laughed off the American constitution...he should be thrown out of office!

In fairness so did George Bush.

Vizion
07-02-2009, 11:19 PM
In fairness so did George Bush.
*weak liberal attempt to divert the issue off of the subject and onto another so as to avoid engaging in it* :rolleyes:

que
07-03-2009, 12:23 AM
yeah, i'm sure he mysteriously snuck by our government and became president without showing proof of his citizenship. :laugh:

of course he showed proof. maybe not PUBLICLY, but it was obviously shown to the right people, the people that count in the government. otherwise he would have never even been considered for presidency.

it's ridiculous, the only people questioning his birth legitimacy are average citizens (aka, clueless people like you and i) and a couple talking heads on TV - not mccain, not bush, not cheney, not the senate, not the CIA, not the FBI, not any part of the government at all. that right there should tell you enough.

Vizion
07-03-2009, 12:59 AM
of course he showed proof. maybe not PUBLICLY, but it was obviously shown to the right people, the people that count in the government. 1. we ARE the right people, tha government you speak so reverently of works for US, the PUBLIC. If B.O. were smart, and actually HAD proof then he would do best to PROVE he had Proof and thereby nullify the askers of said questions, yes?...but he is counting on "clueless idiots" (like you and I - er, I suppose) to continue ignoring the issue...and his gambit had paid off, hasn't it?

otherwise he would have never even been considered for presidency. Wow - are you that naive?? :laugh:

it's ridiculous, the only people questioning his birth legitimacy are average citizens (aka, clueless people like you and i) and a couple talking heads on TV - not mccain, not bush, not cheney, not the senate, not the CIA, not the FBI, not any part of the government at all. that right there should tell you enough. I don't know that anyone is questioning his birth - just where he was born...you see, that's why he needs to show PROOF just like everyone else, yes? What does he have to hide?

oh and didn't Thomas Jefferson once coin the expression that All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent...?

atomdanger
07-03-2009, 01:39 AM
*weak liberal attempt to divert the issue off of the subject and onto another so as to avoid engaging in it* :rolleyes:

Just saying, its a laugh when people who were defending Bush for doing something attack Obama for doing it.

Be consistent.
I didn't say Obama was in the right,

The example of him shrugging off the constitution is him not having a proper birth certificate?
That isn't HIM doing it, he showed his proof.
If it wasn't good enough, why did the American public accept it?


Bush on the other hand, blatantly lied, and passed bills that we had no say in.
(Patriot act)

Vizion
07-03-2009, 01:45 AM
The example of him shrugging off the constitution is him not having a proper birth certificate?
That isn't HIM doing it, he showed his proof.
If it wasn't good enough, why did the American public accept it? WHERE is the proper birth certificate you speak so confidently of - can ylu show anyone??

he doesn't HAVE it, he doesn't OWN it, if he did we the PUBLIC, his employer would have verifed he did. Wake up America, your president is as a illegimate as a 3 dollar bill and should be thrown out.

J.B.
07-03-2009, 01:46 AM
I don't know that anyone is questioning his birth

I think the fact that he is alive is undeniable proof that he was, in fact, born. :)

:laugh:

I think there are some interesting points that have been raised, especially in the links Rock posted, but I also think that if this had any real chance of gaining traction it would have done so by now. Unless some sort of smoking gun piece of evidence comes out, this is likely to stay swept under the rug.

Vizion
07-03-2009, 01:50 AM
I think the fact that he is alive is undeniable proof that he was, in fact, born. :)

:laugh:

I think there are some interesting points that have been raised, especially in the links Rock posted, but I also think that if this had any real chance of gaining traction it would have done so by now. Unless some sort of smoking gun piece of evidence comes out, this is likely to stay swept under the rug.

oh it has traction...just because ABC, NBC, CBS amd the NYTimes don't cover it doesn't mean it doesn't. The smoking gun exists indeed...its called the burden of proof which rests in B.O's lying hands.

J.B.
07-03-2009, 02:13 AM
oh it has traction...just because ABC, NBC, CBS amd the NYTimes don't cover it doesn't mean it doesn't. The smoking gun exists indeed...its called the burden of proof which rests in B.O's lying hands.

This is not new. They have been talking about this stuff since the campaign. I'm not saying it might not be true, but I am saying that if it could have had enough momentum to derail his presidency, that would have already happened. You are correct that the burden of proof does lie in his hands, but it's a little late for that. He is already the president.

Not to mention there is a lot of evidence that has been provided that does show he is a citizen. The point is, it's a waste of time to try and fight it now.
Worry about the policies he is enacting, and if we keep heading in the direction we are now he will run himself out of office.

Vizion
07-03-2009, 02:23 AM
I'm not saying it might not be true, but I am saying that if it could have had enough momentum to derail his presidency, that would have already happened. You are correct that the burden of proof does lie in his hands, but it's a little late for that. He is already the president.Ohhh, its not too late for anything mate. It is never to late to terminate someone from a career for committing perjury. He is just a president, not God after all (despite what the godless liberals think).

Not to mention there is a lot of evidence that has been provided that does show he is a citizen. What matters in actuality is that B.O. is in violation of the US Constitution by not providing authenticity. He should be thrown out of office and on his face for being the liar he is.

I hope the lawsuits continue to flood in until there can be no more denial and even the Obama nuthuggers turn on him.

J.B.
07-03-2009, 02:48 AM
Ohhh, its not too late for anything mate. It is never to late to terminate someone from a career for committing perjury. He is just a president, not God after all (despite what the godless liberals think).

What matters in actuality is that B.O. is in violation of the US Constitution by not providing authenticity. He should be thrown out of office and on his face for being the liar he is.

I hope the lawsuits continue to flood in until there can be no more denial and even the Obama nuthuggers turn on him.


What about all the evidence that says he is a citizen?

This is conspiracy theory stuff that does nothing to better our current situation. Judges have dismissed these claims, the health department in Hawaii has said they have his original birth certificate on file, and there were even birth announcements in two local papers in 1961.

If it is all a big forgery and a lie, it's gonna take a lot more than some blogger with photoshop knowledge to crack it open. Without a smoking gun piece of evidence, harping on this is pointless. I don't put anything past a politician, or anybody for that matter, so it's possible that it's a fraud, but as it stands now, there is more evidence to suggest that he was born here than wasn't.

NateR
07-03-2009, 03:10 AM
yeah, i'm sure he mysteriously snuck by our government and became president without showing proof of his citizenship. :laugh:

of course he showed proof. maybe not PUBLICLY, but it was obviously shown to the right people, the people that count in the government. otherwise he would have never even been considered for presidency.

it's ridiculous, the only people questioning his birth legitimacy are average citizens (aka, clueless people like you and i) and a couple talking heads on TV - not mccain, not bush, not cheney, not the senate, not the CIA, not the FBI, not any part of the government at all. that right there should tell you enough.

So what you are saying is that we the people don't matter. As long as the government, which is neither of, by or for us, doesn't make a big deal out of it, then none of us should care. :blink: For some reason that just doesn't sound quite right... like something is a little backwards.

Anyways, I don't believe that Obama ever did provide valid proof of citizenship, but this is a lost battle. If the media managed to squash this whole controversy before the election, there is no way that they are going to let it spin out of control now. Let's criticize Obama for the damage he is actually doing to this country, not for the dubious nature of his birth.

Vizion
07-03-2009, 03:17 AM
the health department in Hawaii has said they have his original birth certificate on file, and there were even birth announcements in two local papers in 1961.k, why doesn't B.O. provide the proof :huh: ...I believe that you natural born Americans (such as B.O. yea) can obtain a COPY of your birth certificate, am I wrong? I've seen the birth announcements, yet am still ill convinced as they could easily be faked.

the ball is in his court...he has chosen to remain on the bench and I believe in consequence he should be removed from office lest he provides proof. The sheer arrogance is astounding.

J.B.
07-03-2009, 03:36 AM
k, why doesn't B.O. provide the proof :huh: ...I believe that you natural born Americans (such as B.O. yea) can obtain a COPY of your birth certificate, am I wrong? I've seen the birth announcements, yet am still ill convinced as they could easily be faked.

the ball is in his court...he has chosen to remain on the bench and I believe in consequence he should be removed from office lest he provides proof. The sheer arrogance is astounding.

It's easy to make an argument against something if you believe everything is faked. Newspapers are not as easy to fake bro. There are historians that have copies of all that stuff, libraries have those on microfilm. If those newspaper clippings were a lie, you would certainly have heard about that by now.

The issue is why hasn't he made the official certificate open to the public. I'm not sure that he legally has to. There are some valid questions raised, but also some compelling evidence that suggests it's a witch-hunt.

I just say it's better to focus on the bigger picture, and what his policy is going to do for our country.

NateR
07-03-2009, 03:47 AM
Bush on the other hand, blatantly lied, and passed bills that we had no say in.
(Patriot act)

Lied or was simply mistaken? Obviously liberals are going to just assume that Bush lied because he's supposedly pure evil. :rolleyes: But there is a difference between lying and just being wrong.

I never really paid much attention to the Patriot Act, but I did support it. I also don't recall a single Constitutional right that I had in 2001 that I don't still have right now. So I suspect the notion that it was stripping Americans of their rights was bogus. I'd be interested to see some evidence of that.

ufcfan2
07-03-2009, 12:03 PM
Would this whole arguemnt be the same if this was a Republican president:rolleyes:
Not saying if this stuff is true or not true we all know alot of 'funny business' goes on in politics by both parties. If u hate B.O. your gonna agree with anything that goes against him and vice versa.
If he turns out that he truely isn't a naturally born citizen then I concur that he probably should be taken out of office. I voted for the guy,but I also strongly believe u have to be a true natural born citizen as well.
Sadthing is if u do try to take them out regardless of his policies hes a popular President(for now) and lot of ppl got dose of new hope and to take him down would really deflate ppls morale to a degree.

NateR
07-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Would this whole arguemnt be the same if this was a Republican president:rolleyes:
Not saying if this stuff is true or not true we all know alot of 'funny business' goes on in politics by both parties. If u hate B.O. your gonna agree with anything that goes against him and vice versa.
If he turns out that he truely isn't a naturally born citizen then I concur that he probably should be taken out of office. I voted for the guy,but I also strongly believe u have to be a true natural born citizen as well.
Sadthing is if u do try to take them out regardless of his policies hes a popular President(for now) and lot of ppl got dose of new hope and to take him down would really deflate ppls morale to a degree.

Actually, yes, if this was John McCain who refused to present his birth certificate (he was born in Panama), then you can guarantee that it would have received non-stop media coverage before the election. However, since Obama was the media darling, the news networks buried it and attempted to discredit anyone who dared question the authenticity of their anointed one.

And if McCain had been this shady about presenting his birth certificate, then I would be equally suspicious of him.

So, yes, there is a huge double standard going on here, just not the one you are implying.

Rev
07-03-2009, 04:28 PM
To say that all of the questions and dislike are because he is a Democrat is lame. Even if you look past the Birth certificate issue, the fact remains that he has so many ties to known terrorist that he couldnt get a job with the FBI(fact), yet he can run our country! What??!!??!! All of the junk about, "its just because he isnt a Republican or whatever", is just that. JUNK. The man should not be the Commander in Chief of a military and justice department that he doesnt even qualify to work for.

Neezar
07-03-2009, 05:08 PM
Bush on the other hand, blatantly lied, and passed bills that we had no say in.
(Patriot act)

I would love to hear more on this. What do you mean 'that we had no say in'? Have you had any say in any bills passed? Did it not go through Congress?

Neezar
07-03-2009, 05:08 PM
To say that all of the questions and dislike are because he is a Democrat is lame. Even if you look past the Birth certificate issue, the fact remains that he has so many ties to known terrorist that he couldnt get a job with the FBI(fact), yet he can run our country! What??!!??!! All of the junk about, "its just because he isnt a Republican or whatever", is just that. JUNK. The man should not be the Commander in Chief of a military and justice department that he doesnt even qualify to work for.

You know, I have never even considered that. That is very interesting.

Rev
07-03-2009, 05:23 PM
lol. During my breaks from studying the word and visiting and praying with sick folks, i tend to get a little passionate about my country. sorry. lol:ashamed:

Neezar
07-03-2009, 05:37 PM
lol. During my breaks from studying the word and visiting and praying with sick folks, i tend to get a little passionate about my country. sorry. lol:ashamed:

No need to apologize here. I love passionate people.

atomdanger
07-03-2009, 08:45 PM
Lied or was simply mistaken? Obviously liberals are going to just assume that Bush lied because he's supposedly pure evil. :rolleyes: But there is a difference between lying and just being wrong.

I never really paid much attention to the Patriot Act, but I did support it. I also don't recall a single Constitutional right that I had in 2001 that I don't still have right now. So I suspect the notion that it was stripping Americans of their rights was bogus. I'd be interested to see some evidence of that.

If he was mistaken I don't remember him apologizing and admitting so.

You can't?
Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Patriot Act. The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

Amendment VI: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Patriot Act. The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Patriot Act. To assist terror investigation, the government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity.

Amendment VI: ... to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Patriot act. The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech

Patriot Act. The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

Amendment VI: ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him

Patriot Act. Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. US citizens (labeled "unlawful combatants") have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys.

So there go your....
Right to liberty:
Freedom of speech:
Right to legal representation:
Right to a speedy and public trial:
Freedom of association:
Freedom from unreasonable searches:

*shrug* I suppose a lot of people don't care about "freedom" because it isn't effecting them. Or they take a stance like, "if you're not doing anything wrong, them why are you worried about it". Sad.

atomdanger
07-03-2009, 08:46 PM
I would love to hear more on this. What do you mean 'that we had no say in'? Have you had any say in any bills passed? Did it not go through Congress?

Right, it went through congress, it didn't go through me.
How did I have a say?

Did you get to go vote on the US patriot act? I surely didn't.

atomdanger
07-03-2009, 08:47 PM
I will say it is interesting that anybody else I know can order a birth certificate from the state,
and it is no problem at all. At least here in Washington we can.

But Obama seems not to be able to? or refuses to? Interesting.

J.B.
07-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Ughhh...not the Patriot Act again....

Atom, you are giving an untruthful representation of what the Act was designed to do, and also ignoring that NOBODY had their "civil rights" violated as direct cause of this act. At least not anybody who did not give us a reason to be suspicious first.

Obama supported the Patriot Act.

atomdanger
07-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Ughhh...not the Patriot Act again....

Atom, you are giving an untruthful representation of what the Act was designed to do, and also ignoring that NOBODY had their "civil rights" violated as direct cause of this act. At least not anybody who did not give us a reason to be suspicious first.

Obama supported the Patriot Act.

I don't need to give a truthful representation of what it is DESIGNED to do,
it violates constitutional rights, period. It doesn't matter if that is how they intended it, it does it, period.

and your argument is is a joke, nobody who did not give you a reason to be suspicious,
you're the kind of American who frustrates me. You go on and on about our country and/or freedom. But if its not YOU the government is bugging then you don't care.

A report filed by the justice department
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/21/politics/21JUST.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0721-01.htm
Just in 2003, up to June there were 1,073 complaints that were Patriot Act related.

You choose to believe what you want, and ignore what you want. Its funny, everything you disagree with is "liberal propaganda"
and everything you agree with is the truth. haha

J.B.
07-03-2009, 09:45 PM
I don't need to give a truthful representation of what it is DESIGNED to do,
it violates constitutional rights, period. It doesn't matter if that is how they intended it, it does it, period.

and your argument is is a joke, nobody who did not give you a reason to be suspicious,
you're the kind of American who frustrates me. You go on and on about our country and/or freedom. But if its not YOU the government is bugging then you don't care.

A report filed by the justice department
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/21/politics/21JUST.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0721-01.htm
Just in 2003, up to June there were 1,073 complaints that were Patriot Act related.

You choose to believe what you want, and ignore what you want. Its funny, everything you disagree with is "liberal propaganda"
and everything you agree with is the truth. haha

I'm sorry, but people who are planning terrorist attacks against our country don't deserve don't deserve the same rights in a court of law. You are the kind of American that believes everything you read, as long as it conforms to a liberal way of thinking. Did you miss the part about Obama voting for the Patriot Act?

1,073 "complaints" huh....I don't suppose it's a coincidence that those are two HUGE liberal media outlets you got those stories from. Please show me where some common Joe had his door kicked down in the middle of the night, or was arrested for selling drugs after a warrentless wiretap....Find me those people. Don't give me links talking about some Muslims complaining that the cops beat them up. That happens every day, Patriot Act or not.

You just NEED to paint Bush as a bad guy, no matter what. He is EVIL, the BOOGEYMAN!!! I don't disagree with everything on the left side, and I don't agree with everything on the right side, but I REALLY don't buy into the far-left zealotry that you and many others seem to.

NateR
07-03-2009, 10:32 PM
Patriot Act. The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

Patriot Act. The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

Patriot Act. To assist terror investigation, the government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity.

Patriot act. The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

Patriot Act. The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

Patriot Act. Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. US citizens (labeled "unlawful combatants") have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys.


Can you cite your source on this? Because I highly doubt that these excerpts represent the exact wording of the Patriot Act.

NateR
07-03-2009, 10:35 PM
Better yet, you can access the Patriot Act here:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ056.107.pdf

So go through that and tell us all exactly where it lists all of those violations of our Constitutional rights.

atomdanger
07-04-2009, 12:03 AM
I'm sorry, but people who are planning terrorist attacks against our country don't deserve don't deserve the same rights in a court of law. You are the kind of American that believes everything you read, as long as it conforms to a liberal way of thinking. Did you miss the part about Obama voting for the Patriot Act?

1,073 "complaints" huh....I don't suppose it's a coincidence that those are two HUGE liberal media outlets you got those stories from. Please show me where some common Joe had his door kicked down in the middle of the night, or was arrested for selling drugs after a warrentless wiretap....Find me those people. Don't give me links talking about some Muslims complaining that the cops beat them up. That happens every day, Patriot Act or not.

You just NEED to paint Bush as a bad guy, no matter what. He is EVIL, the BOOGEYMAN!!! I don't disagree with everything on the left side, and I don't agree with everything on the right side, but I REALLY don't buy into the far-left zealotry that you and many others seem to.

the point is, they dont have to have proof you're planning an attack,
you can be arrested without trial, searched without reason,etc...

and you don't care. You're the type of person who only looks out for themselves.

Obama voted for the patriot act, YAY, so did almost everybody else.
I didn't claim Obama was perfect, did I?
I also never said I agreed with everything he did.

atomdanger
07-04-2009, 12:10 AM
1,073 "complaints" huh....I don't suppose it's a coincidence that those are two HUGE liberal media outlets you got those stories from. Please show me where some common Joe had his door kicked down in the middle of the night, or was arrested for selling drugs after a warrentless wiretap....Find me those people. Don't give me links talking about some Muslims complaining that the cops beat them up. That happens every day, Patriot Act or not.


Brandon Mayfield is a Portland, Oregon resident who is a convert to Islam and an attorney. Mayfield was wrongly accused by the government of involvement in the Madrid bombing as a result of evidence, including mistaken fingerprint identification, that fell apart after the FBI re-examined its case following its arrest and detention on Mayfield on a material witness warrant. Attorney General Gonzales acknowledged before the Senate Judiciary Committee that Section 218 of the Patriot Act was implicated in the secret search of Mayfield’s house. FBI admitted that it entered Mayfield’s house without a warrant based on criminal probable cause and copied four computer drives, digitally photographed sever documents, seized ten DNA samples and took approximately 335 digital photographs of Brandon Mayfield’s home.

atomdanger
07-04-2009, 12:27 AM
Better yet, you can access the Patriot Act here:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ056.107.pdf

So go through that and tell us all exactly where it lists all of those violations of our Constitutional rights.

http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html
Was my source. But here, lets look Shall we?

505: “Miscellaneous National Security Authorities”
Section 505 allows the government to search through your records without judicial supervision.

Section 2 allows wiretapping, etc.. Reading your book records, email, etc..

These activities contradict the right to be free from arbitrary interference with individuals' privacy, as protected in the U.S. Constitution and the ICCPR

Just do some research, again.
Everything you do NOT agree with, is a lie,
and everything you feel you agree with is certainly the truth.
You seem to form no opinions of your own and write everything off as propaganda. Or liberal nonsense. I am neither a republican or a democrat, but I know I don't want the government listening to my phone calls without a warrant, or coming into my home, etc...

atomdanger
07-04-2009, 02:10 AM
Anyhow, we got way off topic.

If Obama is NOT a US citizen, I do not know why people aren't seriously looking into this.

and, other than impeachment, what would an appropriate punishment be, if any>?

Neezar
07-04-2009, 03:56 AM
Can you cite your source on this? Because I highly doubt that these excerpts represent the exact wording of the Patriot Act.

That is what I was thinking. Looks like they used wording from the constitution and then someone's interpretation of the Patriot Act. A government document is never as clear cut as that. :laugh:

Neezar
07-04-2009, 03:58 AM
Right, it went through congress, it didn't go through me.
How did I have a say?

Did you get to go vote on the US patriot act? I surely didn't.

That is why I was confused about you complaining that 'we had no say in'. We have NEVER had a personal say in any act, have we? :huh: Or are you pissed about the rest of them, too?

:laugh:

Neezar
07-04-2009, 03:59 AM
Anyhow, we got way off topic.

If Obama is NOT a US citizen, I do not know why people aren't seriously looking into this.

and, other than impeachment, what would an appropriate punishment be, if any>?

Yes, off topic. Just do it already, Obama! Isn't he supposed to be all about being open? Well open up, big guy.

atomdanger
07-04-2009, 06:51 AM
Yes, off topic. Just do it already, Obama! Isn't he supposed to be all about being open? Well open up, big guy.

Is there any sort of petition or group trying to get solid evidence?

this all seems very odd to me