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View Full Version : Gun Control laws working in Chicago!


Play The Man
06-30-2009, 04:01 AM
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.weekend.violence.2.1063832.html

Six Men Shot Dead In 24 Hours In Chicago
Several Others Shot Or Stabbed And Wounded

Since April 1982 it has been illegal to purchase or register any handgun within the city of Chicago. How is that working for you, Chicago?

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-30-2009, 04:23 AM
Of course gun control works! It makes the criminals job a whole lot easier!

rockdawg21
06-30-2009, 12:24 PM
How do you think they get those guns? From the same people smuggling drugs into the country. If they can't stop the drugs, they can't stop the guns.

Saying gun control laws work is like saying Dana White is a gentleman. :laugh:

rearnakedchoke
06-30-2009, 01:14 PM
It doesn't help when you can get guns all around the place ... Gun Laws work well when you can't get them or it is very hard to get them. Since you can access guns legally and illegally pretty much anywhere in the US, you are still going to have gun violence .. America has one of the highest gun-related crime or death rates in the world ... Here in Canada, we have strict laws on guns, but the gun-related violence is on the rise .. most of the guns that are causing the crimes are illegal guns from the US. it is so difficult to get them here that the ones who go through the trouble to get them are the ones who want them for hunting/sport etc ...

NateR
06-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the highest crime rates seem to be in the areas with the strictest gun control laws? I don't think that's a coincidence.

Crisco
06-30-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm all for gun control.


Everyone please turn your guns and ammo over to me and I'll proceed to take over the world using your guns against you.

surveyorshawn
06-30-2009, 03:16 PM
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms,disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.~ Thomas Jefferson

VCURamFan
06-30-2009, 04:21 PM
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms,disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.~ Thomas JeffersonWow, who's this Thomas Jefferson guy? He's pretty smart! Someone should, like, make him president or something!!

rearnakedchoke
06-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the highest crime rates seem to be in the areas with the strictest gun control laws? I don't think that's a coincidence.
You mean within the US right?

VCURamFan
06-30-2009, 05:05 PM
You mean within the US right?That's the only country that matters, ain't it?:blink: :tongue0011: :laugh:

J.B.
06-30-2009, 05:14 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the highest crime rates seem to be in the areas with the strictest gun control laws? I don't think that's a coincidence.

Well, I think it goes more to population than anything.

The more people you put into a small area, the more problems you are going to have. I am all for less strict gun laws, but in big cities, a lot of the laws do make sense. Now, does it mean that the laws actually stop people from carrying guns and committing crimes? No, it doesn't, but it does give us the power to punish those who get caught, which is important.

VCURamFan
06-30-2009, 05:24 PM
Well, I think it goes more to population than anything.

The more people you put into a small area, the more problems you are going to have. I am all for less strict gun laws, but in big cities, a lot of the laws do make sense. Now, does it mean that the laws actually stop people from carrying guns and committing crimes? No, it doesn't, but it does give us the power to punish those who get caught, which is important.I agree that it's important to punish people for criminal activity, I don't think that the correct method is to outlaw guns & slam people who have them. I think you need to be cery particular about how the guns are registered & then also have statutes in place which itemize "bonus points" if it's committed with a gun.

J.B.
06-30-2009, 05:44 PM
I agree that it's important to punish people for criminal activity, I don't think that the correct method is to outlaw guns & slam people who have them. I think you need to be cery particular about how the guns are registered & then also have statutes in place which itemize "bonus points" if it's committed with a gun.

I don't think the laws were designed too slam people who own guns. Yes, you have the people who take it too far and think we should completely outlaw guns, but I think it's more of the "don't take your guns to town" idea.

rearnakedchoke
06-30-2009, 06:22 PM
IMO gun control laws won't work in a place where it is a right to carry guns ... i think making it a "right" is overboard, making it a privelege and responsibility is the way to go .. LOL ...

Crisco
06-30-2009, 07:30 PM
I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..

VCURamFan
06-30-2009, 07:49 PM
I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..+ juan. Also, I think you should hafve to pass a gun-safety, as well. Not a full-blown exam, just some simple stuff like "Should you store your gun loaded", etc.

Play The Man
06-30-2009, 08:26 PM
I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..

I am curious, what is your rationale for a waiting period?

Crisco
06-30-2009, 08:31 PM
I am curious, what is your rationale for a waiting period?

To help cut some crimes of passion down.

Guy walks in on his wife doing another guy takes ten minutes, drives to the store and buys a gun and some bullets and puts 3 bullets in both of them.

If he has to wait three days cooler heads might prevail.

I'm not saying he wouldn't just stab the dude or something but I think and have been told by others with experience that pulling a trigger is often easier then plunging a blade into someone.

Point being that rarely does someone buy a gun the same day they are taking it hunting.

To some it might sound silly but I've seen some angry people that if they could have brought guns at that moment would have used them and then they would have regretted it when cooler heads prevail.

A short waiting period does more good then harm I think. It doesn't really trample on anyones rights and might save a few lives.

Play The Man
06-30-2009, 10:06 PM
To help cut some crimes of passion down.

Guy walks in on his wife doing another guy takes ten minutes, drives to the store and buys a gun and some bullets and puts 3 bullets in both of them.

If he has to wait three days cooler heads might prevail.

I'm not saying he wouldn't just stab the dude or something but I think and have been told by others with experience that pulling a trigger is often easier then plunging a blade into someone.

Point being that rarely does someone buy a gun the same day they are taking it hunting.

To some it might sound silly but I've seen some angry people that if they could have brought guns at that moment would have used them and then they would have regretted it when cooler heads prevail.

A short waiting period does more good then harm I think. It doesn't really trample on anyones rights and might save a few lives.

I used to support gun control but my thinking on the issue has changed as I have gotten older and read up on the issue.

I think waiting periods sound reasonable to most people. I had the same discussion with a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist. He supports waiting periods because he is concerned about suicidal people having a gun. I think that is a justifiable concern. Shortly after we had the discussion, I came across a study that addressed the issue. In brief (if I remember all the details correctly), areas with newly instituted waiting periods did experience a decrease in suicide by firearm; however, there was a concomitant increase in suicides by other methods (hanging, pills, carbon monoxide, etc.) so that the overall suicide rate was unchanged. Essentially, the waiting period did put up a roadblock in front of the suicidal person but it didn't stop them from committing suicide, they just took a bottle of Tylenol or sat in a car in a closed garage or strung up a noose from the ceiling. I don't know of a study looking at waiting periods and crimes of passion, but I suspect that (like you mentioned in your post) a homicidal person would use a knife, run the person down with a car or more than likely buy a gun on the street in less than 10 minutes. I recently read about a homicide in our local paper committed by a drug-dealer who had been released from jail less than three hours before he committed the homicide. He was a felon so he couldn't legally obtain a firearm. Instead, within literally minutes, he bought an AK-47 from another criminal on the street and gunned down another drug dealer. I think a truly homicidal person will not be stopped by a waiting period, it is just too easy to buy a gun from a criminal on the street.

I recently purchased a firearm so I know all about waiting periods. Here is the process I had to go through: First, I took a day-long course on gun safety which included range time (I am ok with that, I would have taken it anyway). After I completed the course I was not given a certificate. The gun shop owner had to go to the courthouse and get a signed affidavit. In order to make it inconvenient for the gunowner, they do not allow the gunshop owner to mail you the affidavit; after waiting for the affidavit to be issued, it requires another trip to the gunshop to pick it up in person. After you purchase the gun, you are not allowed to take it home. Instead, you must take the bill of sale with the serial number to the police department. I happened to buy my gun on a Saturday and discovered to my chagrin that the police department office is not open on the weekend (weekday hours are very limited - the office is only open when most people are at work). The following week I had to go during lunch. Surprise! Everyone else has to go at lunchtime so the line was incredibly long (that and the fact that gun sales have exploded since Obama was elected). The parking for the police department is coin meter - one quarter gives you 10 minutes. I had to give up my place in line to avoid a parking ticket. After waiting for almost an hour in line I had to fill out extensive paperwork including signing a release to my personal physician to give up access to my personal, private medical records. I had to pay a fee and be fingerprinted like a common criminal. The fingerprints were sent to the FBI! The waiting period was 14 days. At the end of the 14 days there is a 5 day-window when you must go back to the police department to pick up your paperwork in person. They will not mail it to you. You are not given a reminder call or postcard. If you forget or have conflicts with your schedule tough luck for you. Your paperwork is thrown away and you must start over from the beginning and pay another fee. When you pick up your paperwork at the police department (again with a long line) you are told that you have 48 hours to go back to the gunshop to take possession of your firearm. If you don't (say for instance you have a job, or a family, or a life with duties and responsibilities that make it difficult to make unexpected outings during work hours) then the paperwork is void and you have to start over. Next, is a trip to the gunshop to pick up the gun. I thought I was finished at this point, but like a cruel joke, the gunshop-owner informed me I had 24 hours to return to the police department to have them inspect the gun and record the serial number (which they already have) or I am in violation of the law. Waiting periods may sound reasonable but from personal experience I can tell you that they are onerous (in my case, 5 trips to the gunshop - I bought the gun on a different day than I picked up the affidavit - and 4 trips to the police department - including the Saturday that they were closed). The government purposely makes it difficult and burdensome to go through the process so few people will do it. Can you imagine if they put up these roadblocks to a person picking up a welfare check? Can you imagine if they put up these roadblocks to a person registering to vote. The civil rights lawyers and their ilk would be rioting in the streets. I was lawfully pursuing my 2nd amendment rights and I felt like I was being treated like a criminal or a trained seal going through hoops.

In my case, it was just inconvenience and aggravation. How about the woman being stalked by a crazy ex-boyfriend? She will die with an active restraining order while she is waiting for her gun license. Civil disorder, such as the LA riots or the lawlessness that followed Hurricane Katrina, pops up without warning and with the change in public safety you may want a gun ASAP and not in weeks. The problem is the law-abiding citizen will be out of luck and the gangs and criminals will have an illegal gun in 10 minutes.

Sorry for the rant:wink:

surveyorshawn
06-30-2009, 10:19 PM
...makes me glad I live in a small town/rural community where owning a firearm has always been a part of life. I have never taken a course (besides in the military). On the contrary, it was considered a father's (or in my case, a grandfather's) responsibility to teach his children gun safety, how to shoot, etc. It was a rite of passage, kind of like learning to drive & getting your driver's license. I have also never had to wait or fill out any paperwork except for a One or two page document. The only thing that has changed here is that at Walmart the manager has to carry your gun out of the store for you and hand it to you. I am very glad I don't live in a larger urban area!!

KENTUCKYREDBONE
07-01-2009, 08:10 AM
I think basic gun safety should be taught in School with actual firearms! Then in order to deny any American their right to own a firearm you must show just cause for taking that right away! I also think that every County in America should have a public Shooting range open free of charge!

Crisco
07-01-2009, 01:24 PM
I live in nj so I know all about the pains of trying to own a firearm.

I don't believe in what you had to do. What I ment was you go to the store purchase and register your firearm and in 1-3 days you are allowed to pick it up.

Simple and easy.

surveyorshawn
07-01-2009, 06:38 PM
I think basic gun safety should be taught in School with actual firearms! Then in order to deny any American their right to own a firearm you must show just cause for taking that right away! I also think that every County in America should have a public Shooting range open free of charge!

When I was in Junior High (Middle School now) the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks came and taught Hunter's Education & firearm safety every year to eighter 7th or 8th graders (I can't remember which).

Chris Wescott
07-02-2009, 02:03 PM
So they want to take away our right to defend ourselves as upstanding law abiding citizens. Meanwhile criminals and these low life scums buy fire arms on the black market and suddenly the bad guys are armed and the good guys are not.

I think that is upside down logic. Guys we can not sit back and let this type of thing happen.

How bout the good guys being required to own and train with fire arms, more law enforcement to shut down the black market, and low life types not allowed to purchase, own or handle fire arms.

Doesn't make better sense?
-Chris (who proudly goes to the rifle range to train weekly)
:Whistle:

Chris Wescott
07-02-2009, 02:05 PM
I think basic gun safety should be taught in School with actual firearms! Then in order to deny any American their right to own a firearm you must show just cause for taking that right away! I also think that every County in America should have a public Shooting range open free of charge!
Absolutely.

Play The Man
07-05-2009, 11:28 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/05/eveningnews/main5134813.shtml

Janice Foster spent the holiday weekend locked and loaded. Weapons lay within easy reach throughout her house.

No one in Gaffney, South Carolina is taking chances. A serial killer's on the loose.

"It's definitely very very scary," Foster told CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

"It's in the back of your mind," said Alan Foster. "No matter where you go, people are talking about it."

Talking about being "terrified."

In one week, five murders here.

Last Saturday, Kline Cash, a peach farmer, was shot in his home.

Last Wednesday, 83-year-old Hazel Linger and her daughter were gunned down together at home - and remembered together at today's joint funeral service.

On Thursday, Stephen Tyler and his 15-year-old daughter Abby were killed as they closed the family appliance store, less than a half mile from the sheriff's office.

Investigators say all the victims were bound and shot. A sketch provides their best glimpse of someone most people here expect to kill again.

"We have many leads coming in, still coming in," said Gaffney Police Chief Richard Turner. "We do want those to continue; anyone that feels they have any information, how slight it might be, please make those calls, get in touch with the task force."

It's hard to believe for a town of only 13,000 people but 40 years ago, another serial killer - nicknamed the "Gaffney Strangler" - abducted and killed four people.

Once again, the community psyche is shattered. Unless you're expected, people in Gaffney say don't drop by.

Says Alan Foster: "Every time somebody opens a door they're carrying a gun."

This county had six homicides last year; now it's had five in one week.

I think this is another situation that illustrates that substantial waiting periods are a bad idea. Perform an instant criminal background check, yes; but waiting periods, no. Within one week, a once peaceful small town is now in fear of a serial killer. People who felt safe last week are now in fear for their lives. Does it make sense in this situation to tell people that are trying to arm themselves against a serial killer on the loose that they can't buy a gun today, they must come back in 3 days or 14 days?

Tyburn
07-05-2009, 11:38 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.weekend.violence.2.1063832.html



Since April 1982 it has been illegal to purchase or register any handgun within the city of Chicago. How is that working for you, Chicago?
:blink: has gun regulation really been around that long???

I thought people were blaming Obama for wanting to steal their guns....Obama would have been a teenager back then surely :huh: :laugh:

Play The Man
07-05-2009, 11:44 PM
:blink: has gun regulation really been around that long???

I thought people were blaming Obama for wanting to steal their guns....Obama would have been a teenager back then surely :huh: :laugh:

Most of the large cities are run by Democrats (big "d") and have some form of gun control. Not coincidentally, these areas are crime-ridden. The rural and suburban areas for the most part don't have gun control. Obama wants to advance a gun control agenda from sea to shining sea.

Tyburn
07-05-2009, 11:50 PM
Most of the large cities are run by Democrats (big "d") and have some form of gun control. Not coincidentally, these areas are crime-ridden. The rural and suburban areas for the most part don't have gun control. Obama wants to advance a gun control agenda from sea to shining sea.
the only possible way to ever phase out handguns is to verrrra slowly stop the selling of ammunition.

You cant just ban them, that will cause revolt, and the guns just go underground.

It would take...I reckon about ten years to properly dissarm America...you do nothing with gun restrictions at all...you simply clamp down on ammunition.

If you cant take their guns...just stop supplying them with bullets...its like a seige...eventually their guns will become pointless.

mindue...i'm not against guns for hunting...take away the power to hunt...and sooner or later your going to be overun with everything from mountain lions to turkies :laugh:

Dont worry...Obama will never get away with it...he only has four years in office...for a President to properly dissarm America he'd need to do it quietly over a decade....no President can reign that long....its full proof...bit like Kevlar :laugh:

Play The Man
07-06-2009, 04:08 AM
the only possible way to ever phase out handguns is to verrrra slowly stop the selling of ammunition.

You cant just ban them, that will cause revolt, and the guns just go underground.

It would take...I reckon about ten years to properly dissarm America...you do nothing with gun restrictions at all...you simply clamp down on ammunition.

If you cant take their guns...just stop supplying them with bullets...its like a seige...eventually their guns will become pointless.

mindue...i'm not against guns for hunting...take away the power to hunt...and sooner or later your going to be overun with everything from mountain lions to turkies :laugh:

Dont worry...Obama will never get away with it...he only has four years in office...for a President to properly dissarm America he'd need to do it quietly over a decade....no President can reign that long....its full proof...bit like Kevlar :laugh:

Americans are already stockpiling ammunition because of Obama. The past few times that I have gone to the sporting goods store they have been out of .22LR ammunition and they have buying limits on all the ammunition.

There is a brisk business in reloading supplies as well.

They wouldn't have to ban ammunition. They would just have to tax it so high that it became prohibitively expensive to fire a gun.

You mentioned that you were going to read the Constitution. If gun control critics were intellectually honest people they would try to repeal the second amendment.

Tyburn
07-06-2009, 09:35 AM
Americans are already stockpiling ammunition because of Obama. The past few times that I have gone to the sporting goods store they have been out of .22LR ammunition and they have buying limits on all the ammunition.

There is a brisk business in reloading supplies as well.

They wouldn't have to ban ammunition. They would just have to tax it so high that it became prohibitively expensive to fire a gun.

You mentioned that you were going to read the Constitution. If gun control critics were intellectually honest people they would try to repeal the second amendment.

Firstly how do you know the consitutuion means Arms as in weapons...and not bare arms....as in roll your sleaves up :laugh: :laugh: That was a joke one of my friends made at work about "the right to bare arms" :laugh: :laugh:

I dont think your government should raise taxes. Historically...Americans REALLY hate that. If your Government wants to remain in situe it cant disarm militantly, and it cant disarm via hiking taxes...both of those will cause civil unrest, great civil unrest...the sort of civil unrest that becomes Civil War :unsure: