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rockdawg21
06-11-2009, 06:50 PM
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/04/obamas_christian_nation_1.html
President Obama is taking a fair amount of heat from conservatives for his recent comments in Turkey in which, speaking for Americans, he said that, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation; we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."

Back in June of 2006, Obama said,

"Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation - at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

Obama made a similar statement in an email response to CBN's David Brody in 2007:

"Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

We see that Obama believes we are no longer a Christian nation but an assortment of several mini nations. Obama believes America is a nation of citizens curiously "bound by ideals and a set of values," having no extrinsic anchor and objective source.

In full context of Obama's statements made in Turkey on April 7, the President did at least acknowledge the following:

I think that where -- where there's the most promise of building stronger U.S.-Turkish relations is in the recognition that Turkey and the United States can build a model partnership in which a predominantly Christian nation and a predominantly Muslim nation, a Western nation and a nation that straddles two continents -- that we can create a modern international community that is respectful, that is secure, that is prosperous; that there are not tensions, inevitable tensions, between cultures, which I think is extraordinarily important.

By referring to America as a "predominantly Christian nation" Obama is speaking in terms of population, not of the religion's influence on national morality, policy and law. America is populated primarily by Christians. In that sense Obama is correct.

Link to the video: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/06/obama-us-not-a-christian_n_183772.html

I found this very interesting.
Do you know the Preamble for your state? . .

Be sure to read the message at the bottom!

Alabama 1901, Preamble We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences...
Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..
Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the State of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble.. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction
Michigan 1908, Preamble.. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..
Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance....
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...
South Carolina , 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ...
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ..
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...
Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution...

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong! If you found this to be 'Food for thought' send to as many as you think will be enlightened as I hope you were.

(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Crisco
06-11-2009, 07:29 PM
To be fair is doesn't stipulate who's God lol.

I am a born again Christian and

I do not believe America is a Christian nation.

It is a nation of free religious practice and a freedom to pursue that which makes us happy.

This is my belief and regardless of the beliefs that the founding fathers may or may not have held the writing is on the wall and in the books. Jesus Christ is not mentioned in any of our legal documents that I am aware of... I'm inclined to feel the the founding of the nation may have been based upon Christian morals but that does not make it a Christian nation in legal sense.

Just my opinion.

NateR
06-11-2009, 07:33 PM
To be fair is doesn't stipulate who's God lol.

I am a born again Christian and

I do not believe America is a Christian nation.

It is a nation of free religious practice and a freedom to pursue that which makes us happy.

This is my belief and regardless of the beliefs that the founding fathers may or may not have held the writing is on the wall and in the books. Jesus Christ is not mentioned in any of our legal documents that I am aware of... I'm inclined to feel the the founding of the nation may have been based upon Christian morals but that does not make it a Christian nation in legal sense.

Just my opinion.

Actually, when being sworn into office, the governors of the early states were required to swear allegiance to Jesus Christ as the only, true Savior and Son of GOD. It was pretty much understood back then that "God" was a reference to the Judeo-Christian GOD. I'll have to find those statements.

Crisco
06-11-2009, 07:41 PM
It makes it interesting because then it would seem Obama was correct with his statement:

"Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

With the removal of those oaths B-HO kinda has a point.

NateR
06-11-2009, 08:46 PM
It makes it interesting because then it would seem Obama was correct with his statement:

"Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

With the removal of those oaths B-HO kinda has a point.

That's probably true, but it's definitely not something to be proud of. And claiming that "we don't really stand for anything" is not the way to gain respect throughout the world.

Tyburn
06-11-2009, 09:51 PM
Alabama 1901, Preamble We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences...
Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..
Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the State of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble.. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction
Michigan 1908, Preamble.. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..
Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance....
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...
South Carolina , 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ...
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ..
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...
Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution...


It prooves that America was founded a Christian Nation for certain. Those statements are beautiful. Imagine if people still spoke like that how glorious it would be :w00t:

Vizion
06-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Obama has sinister motives

no doubt the devil is working through him...in a multitude of ways

atomdanger
06-11-2009, 10:03 PM
"we can create a modern international community that is respectful, that is secure, that is prosperous; that there are not tensions, inevitable tensions, between cultures, which I think is extraordinarily important."

I liked this part.

Crisco
06-12-2009, 01:35 PM
"we can create a modern international community that is respectful, that is secure, that is prosperous; that there are not tensions, inevitable tensions, between cultures, which I think is extraordinarily important."

I liked this part.

yea it was pretty nice.


I'm done calling him the anti-christ. I'll wait 10 years and then judge.

I'm tired of being negative. I just want to be hopeful for once.

God help us.

Vizion
06-12-2009, 02:41 PM
yea it was pretty nice.


I'm done calling him the anti-christ. I'll wait 10 years and then judge.

I'm tired of being negative. I just want to be hopeful for once.

God help us.You're not being negative, you're just watching for the signs...B.O. has many of them to suggest he could be antichrist. That's why people like you have been alert.

atomdanger
06-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Eh... I bought my first rifle. (Rock River Arms)

NateR
06-13-2009, 12:26 AM
"we can create a modern international community that is respectful, that is secure, that is prosperous; that there are not tensions, inevitable tensions, between cultures, which I think is extraordinarily important."

I liked this part.

Yeah, it's nice, but it's not realistic. Obama's "rainbows and puppy dogs" approach to foreign affairs is going to get lots of Americans killed; but that might be his intent.

The more I see of this man, the more I suspect that his only goal is to cripple and ultimately destroy America.

atomdanger
06-13-2009, 01:00 AM
Yeah, it's nice, but it's not realistic. Obama's "rainbows and puppy dogs" approach to foreign affairs is going to get lots of Americans killed; but that might be his intent.

The more I see of this man, the more I suspect that his only goal is to cripple and ultimately destroy America.

Sadly you're not the first person to say that.

I hear it a lot... Maybe it isn't realistic, but i think we do need to TRY
to get along with other countries, but do so without comprising our beliefs or way of life.

rearnakedchoke
06-13-2009, 04:02 AM
Yeah, it's nice, but it's not realistic. Obama's "rainbows and puppy dogs" approach to foreign affairs is going to get lots of Americans killed; but that might be his intent.

The more I see of this man, the more I suspect that his only goal is to cripple and ultimately destroy America.
right and your boy bush wasn't responsible for thousands ... get real man, your boy lead americans into a useless war for no reason and got thousands killed ... so don't talk about barack getting them killed ... i don't know how dubya sleeps at nite knowing these soldiers died on his watch for no reason ...

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:09 AM
right and your boy bush wasn't responsible for thousands ... get real man, your boy lead americans into a useless war for no reason and got thousands killed ... so don't talk about barack getting them killed ... i don't know how dubya sleeps at nite knowing these soldiers died on his watch for no reason ...

Question: Can a president of the United States declare and engage in war?

NateR
06-13-2009, 04:49 AM
[BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT]right and your boy bush wasn't responsible for thousands ... get real man, your boy lead americans into a useless war for no reason and got thousands killed ... so don't talk about barack getting them killed ... i don't know how dubya sleeps at nite knowing these soldiers died on his watch for no reason ...[/BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT]

There's just so much stupidity in your post that I can't even begin to reply. If you really think that Iraq was a useless war, then you are hopelessly brainwashed by the liberal media and there is no hope for you.

rockdawg21
06-13-2009, 06:26 AM
right and your boy bush wasn't responsible for thousands ... get real man, your boy lead americans into a useless war for no reason and got thousands killed ... so don't talk about barack getting them killed ... i don't know how dubya sleeps at nite knowing these soldiers died on his watch for no reason ...
Question: Can a president of the United States declare and engage in war?
I might be incorrect, but Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution states "The Congress shall have power To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;".

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but Bush never served in Congress.

VCURamFan
06-13-2009, 06:36 AM
I might be incorrect, but Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution states "The Congress shall have power To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;".

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but Bush never served in Congress.Man, thank goodness I clicked "refresh" before I replied. I was about to write up your exact post for so that RNC could understand what Denise was trying to say, but you beat me to the punch. Thanks for saving me some time & what little shreds of dignity I have left around here!! :laugh:

Tyburn
06-13-2009, 11:52 AM
Question: Can a president of the United States declare and engage in war?
Answer:

Yes, it is possible for a President of The United States to declaire and Engage in War in two ways

As Prosecuter

There are Two Barriers he must overcome. The First is it must be Legal within his own Law. This mean he must get approval from his Government first. Then he needs Approval from the International Community by way of a Sanctioning United Nations Vote. The reason for this is simple. A country has no jurisdiction outside of its Soverignty. The Country you war with is not US soil, therefore you need a world opinion on the matter before you tread on anothers soil.

Once both are obtained, the President may do what he wishes outside of his Jurisdiction in regards to the Nation against which he is fighting. He shall also be entitled to complimentary Troops from other Organisations of an International Standing, Probably members of the Security Council, Possibly a Force by the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, or a selection of Troops forming a United Nations envoy of some type.

As Defendant

If The United States is attacked by another Force whether provoked or not, it has an immediate right to respond should it wish to. The result may be warfare. This action does not need the specific approval of the International Community, and is taken as a given that the Government would support the President in such an activity.


These Guidelines are not applicable to a case of Civil War.
These Guidelines do not sanction genocide or war crimes
These Guidelines are subject to Human Rights of the Enemy during warfare as specified under The Geneva Convention (please note not all Countries abide by this in every respect at war, and I personally dont vouch for everything specified, for example, I am pro-use of Torture under interogation which is strictly forbidden)

Hope that helps :laugh:

Neezar
06-13-2009, 01:09 PM
Question: Can a president of the United States declare and engage in war?



Answer:

Yes, it is possible for a President of The United States to declaire and Engage in War in two ways



Fail.


I might be incorrect, but Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution states "The Congress shall have power To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;".

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but Bush never served in Congress.

Man, thank goodness I clicked "refresh" before I replied. I was about to write up your exact post for so that RNC could understand what Denise was trying to say, but you beat me to the punch. Thanks for saving me some time & what little shreds of dignity I have left around here!! :laugh:

Thank you!

rearnakedchoke
06-13-2009, 02:25 PM
[BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT][/BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT]

There's just so much stupidity in your post that I can't even begin to reply. If you really think that Iraq was a useless war, then you are hopelessly brainwashed by the liberal media and there is no hope for you.
Honestly, how can you say Obama's actions are going to get a lot of American's killed ... How many American's were killed under Bush the Elders regime with the first Gulf war? How many people were killed under Clinton's regime? I mean, his "intelligence" knew about plans about the WTC attacks, okay, so it may have been impossible to stop those (i know they happened when Bush the younger was pres) but they knew that there were plans for the enemy to use planes and still security was lax ... and then there were american's that died under Dubya ... but you only seem to be concerned with people that are going to be killed under Barack's presidency .. that is the reason for the rant ...

Tyburn
06-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Fail.






Thank you!
What your Government says about stuff outside of your Jurisdiction is illegal in terms of International Law.

It was illegal for the Germans in World War Two, it is Illegal for your Congress now.

You have, by law, NO Power outside of your own Soverignty...do you not understand? You have NO rights outside of your own land. Your Government ONLY Rules The United States...it has NO authority anywhere else (except you could argue in an embassy or Military Base placed in another country, at that Countries PERMISSION, or after a conflict condemned by the INTERNATIONAL community.

...And you said that America wasnt about superiority. Understand Denise, your Consitution ONLY governs YOU...it does NOT govern the rest of the World. So what Your Constitution says about your Governments abilities outside itself is Irrelevant to the International Community, who only see its Authority WITHIN your boarders.

If you dont like the answer...dont ask the question.:angry:

I have a question for you though. Can Congress sign off on a War without the consent of the President? I mean, would that be legal under the Constitution??? Because thats what the artical implies. Congress it says...not President...Congress.

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:36 PM
What your Government says about stuff outside of your Jurisdiction is illegal in terms of International Law.

It was illegal for the Germans in World War Two, it is Illegal for your Congress now.

You have, by law, NO Power outside of your own Soverignty...do you not understand? You have NO rights outside of your own land. Your Government ONLY Rules The United States...it has NO authority anywhere else (except you could argue in an embassy or Military Base placed in another country, at that Countries PERMISSION, or after a conflict condemned by the INTERNATIONAL community.

...And you said that America wasnt about superiority. Understand Denise, your Consitution ONLY governs YOU...it does NOT govern the rest of the World. So what Your Constitution says about your Governments abilities outside itself is Irrelevant to the International Community, who only see its Authority WITHIN your boarders.

If you dont like the answer...dont ask the question.:angry:

I have a question for you though. Can Congress sign off on a War without the consent of the President? I mean, would that be legal under the Constitution??? Because thats what the artical implies. Congress it says...not President...Congress.

I asked the question and it got answered. You answered a question plucked from who knows where. :laugh:

My question was could our president declare war.
Our President can NOT declare war. /End of my question.

Tyburn
06-13-2009, 05:38 PM
I asked the question and it got answered. You answered a question plucked from who knows where. :laugh:

My question was could our president declare war.
Our President can NOT declare war. /End of my question.
:blink: Of course he can declaire war. :laugh:

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President???? Who suggests War?? Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress?? Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress? are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???

NateR
06-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Honestly, how can you say Obama's actions are going to get a lot of American's killed ... How many American's were killed under Bush the Elders regime with the first Gulf war? How many people were killed under Clinton's regime? I mean, his "intelligence" knew about plans about the WTC attacks, okay, so it may have been impossible to stop those (i know they happened when Bush the younger was pres) but they knew that there were plans for the enemy to use planes and still security was lax ... and then there were american's that died under Dubya ... but you only seem to be concerned with people that are going to be killed under Barack's presidency .. that is the reason for the rant ...

First of all, I don't believe Iraq was a useless war. We deposed a brutal dictator, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people and had used WMDs on his enemies in the past. If you look at the time period between when we started that war, when Saddam was killed, and when Iraq held their first free elections, then compare that to the casualty numbers of American soldiers, then it's the most successful war in American history. We lost more soldiers in one day in WW2 and Korea than we have in the entire 6 years we've been in Iraq.

Also, since 9/11, how many terrorist attacks have happened on American soil? Zero? That's right. So I believe that's proof of absolute success on George W. Bush's part. Of course, you liberals have been brainwashed to believe that this has been the darkest period in US history. But those of us still capable of thinking for ourselves see the truth and realize that you are all 100% wrong in your assessment of the previous administration.

Yes, Gitmo is the last little thing that you are clinging to by your fingernails as evidence of Bush's "evil." However, he did nothing that hasn't been done to enemy combatants in every other war in US history. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Confederate soldiers and those were American citizens! So maybe you should learn a little bit about history before buying into the popular liberal propaganda.

Neezar
06-13-2009, 07:00 PM
:blink: Of course he can declaire war. :laugh:

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President???? Who suggests War?? Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress?? Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress? are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???

You are starting to get it. lol. The President can NOT overrule congress.


Just like with your precious UN stuff. There was the League of Nations years before the UN. And it was our President's idea. He proposed it and got it started. But our gov't, our congress said 'No way!' and we (i.e. The US) didn't join and/or participate. The American people was decidely against it. Then WWII came along and all that went to crap. :sad:

VCURamFan
06-13-2009, 07:05 PM
:blink: Of course he can declaire war. :laugh: Wrong.

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President????Right.
Who suggests War??Doesn't matter.
Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress?? Sometimes.
Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress? Absolutely.
are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

NateR
06-13-2009, 07:12 PM
Wrong.

Right.
Doesn't matter.
Sometimes.
Absolutely.
Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

Exactly, the President cannot declare war without the approval of the Congress. That's why Korea and Vietnam were considered "police actions" since there was no formal declaration of war from Congress in either instance.

The hypocritical thing about the whole Iraq War situation is that most of the Democrat Congressmen/women voted in favor of the war. They're trying to backtrack by saying that Bush lied to them over the reasons of the war, but they really just make themselves look like idiots if they voted to go to war without even attempting to research the facts for themselves.

Tyburn
06-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Wrong.

Right.
Doesn't matter.
Sometimes.
Absolutely.
Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.
Fascinating...but merely a facet of your own Legality.

Whether Congress or President, neither, or both sign off on a War, ONLY makes it legal INSIDE America. The moment you take action, you are in breech of International Law...as soon as that happens, in the eyes of the World, your war is not justified.

Try to understand Ben, there is more to this world then America, and the International Community has checks and ballences also. Its called Democrasy, and its called a World Opinion....without that in your Favour, it doesnt actually matter to the rest of the world what your Congress, or your President say.

This is what you guys just dont understand. Actually, you are NOT at the top of the food chain, not in anything. If all the International Community banded together, our Joint Military Force would be more then yours. In terms of Population (proportional Representation for the planet) America is not as significant a voice in the world as you would like to believe.

I dont want to be mean...but you dont seem to understand Democrasy, nor do you seem to be at all humble in your dealings with the rest of the world. You believe that you alone have the ultimate power and the ultimate right. That is Pride...that will eventually be your downfall

Getting Congressional approval is only HALF your battle to committing a Just war. As I understand it, in regards to Iraq, both the UK and US broke International Law whilst maintaining their own law of the land within their boarders. THAT doesnt make it Just.

rearnakedchoke
06-14-2009, 12:30 AM
First of all, I don't believe Iraq was a useless war. We deposed a brutal dictator, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people and had used WMDs on his enemies in the past. If you look at the time period between when we started that war, when Saddam was killed, and when Iraq held their first free elections, then compare that to the casualty numbers of American soldiers, then it's the most successful war in American history. We lost more soldiers in one day in WW2 and Korea than we have in the entire 6 years we've been in Iraq.

Also, since 9/11, how many terrorist attacks have happened on American soil? Zero? That's right. So I believe that's proof of absolute success on George W. Bush's part. Of course, you liberals have been brainwashed to believe that this has been the darkest period in US history. But those of us still capable of thinking for ourselves see the truth and realize that you are all 100% wrong in your assessment of the previous administration.

Yes, Gitmo is the last little thing that you are clinging to by your fingernails as evidence of Bush's "evil." However, he did nothing that hasn't been done to enemy combatants in every other war in US history. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Confederate soldiers and those were American citizens! So maybe you should learn a little bit about history before buying into the popular liberal propaganda.
i believe there has been no attack on US not because of the Iraq second invasion, but because of the Afghan war ... (although there have been attacks on US embassies since then which is US soil, but i know what you mean) ... like i said, the whole point of my rant was you are talking about US citizens that you "think" are going to die under BO's reign when nothing has happened yet .. give him a chance ..

VCURamFan
06-14-2009, 01:23 AM
Fascinating...but merely a facet of your own Legality.

Whether Congress or President, neither, or both sign off on a War, ONLY makes it legal INSIDE America. The moment you take action, you are in breech of International Law...as soon as that happens, in the eyes of the World, your war is not justified.

Try to understand Ben, there is more to this world then America, and the International Community has checks and ballences also. Its called Democrasy, and its called a World Opinion....without that in your Favour, it doesnt actually matter to the rest of the world what your Congress, or your President say.

This is what you guys just dont understand. Actually, you are NOT at the top of the food chain, not in anything. If all the International Community banded together, our Joint Military Force would be more then yours. In terms of Population (proportional Representation for the planet) America is not as significant a voice in the world as you would like to believe.

I dont want to be mean...but you dont seem to understand Democrasy, nor do you seem to be at all humble in your dealings with the rest of the world. You believe that you alone have the ultimate power and the ultimate right. That is Pride...that will eventually be your downfall

Getting Congressional approval is only HALF your battle to committing a Just war. As I understand it, in regards to Iraq, both the UK and US broke International Law whilst maintaining their own law of the land within their boarders. THAT doesnt make it Just.Hahahaha, I love it! This is Dave-fu at it's finest! "What, they've disproven my theories? Hmmm...time to switch the topic of conversation to something that's almost what we were talking about."

Dave, you are now off-topic. RNC said that this was "Bush's war" or that "Bush pushed us into this" or something along those lines. Denise & I pointed out that this was patently false, as it's impossible for a president start a war. You tried to tell that we were wrong. We both pointed out that you're 100% mistaken. Since you're incapable of admitting when you've made a mistake or that you're wrong, you must now try to de-rail the thread by accusing us of international crimes. If you want to discuss whether or not the US is guilty of anything on an international front, start a new thread, because it's entirely superfluous to the subject at hand. You've lost this argument, period, end of story. No amount of back-peddling, red herrings or topic-shifts will change that.

Tyburn
06-14-2009, 12:13 PM
Hahahaha, I love it! This is Dave-fu at it's finest! "What, they've disproven my theories? Hmmm...time to switch the topic of conversation to something that's almost what we were talking about."

Dave, you are now off-topic. RNC said that this was "Bush's war" or that "Bush pushed us into this" or something along those lines. Denise & I pointed out that this was patently false, as it's impossible for a president start a war. You tried to tell that we were wrong. We both pointed out that you're 100% mistaken. Since you're incapable of admitting when you've made a mistake or that you're wrong, you must now try to de-rail the thread by accusing us of international crimes. If you want to discuss whether or not the US is guilty of anything on an international front, start a new thread, because it's entirely superfluous to the subject at hand. You've lost this argument, period, end of story. No amount of back-peddling, red herrings or topic-shifts will change that.

Actualy, I'm the only one still on topic. I've been talking about the international Community because if you look at the start of the thread...its what Obama said about making links with the international Community.

So in regards to war...are we not talking about International Community?

Thats why I was confused by Denise. Her question, I answered from an International View point...when she was just talking purely about homeland American politics.

So try sticking to the Subject at hand Ben. This is supposed to be about the International community and I'm the only one still talking about it. You guys are talking about America...once again, as if the whole world never existed :rolleyes: :laugh:

Neezar
06-14-2009, 03:52 PM
Actualy, I'm the only one still on topic. I've been talking about the international Community because if you look at the start of the thread...its what Obama said about making links with the international Community.

So in regards to war...are we not talking about International Community?

Thats why I was confused by Denise. Her question, I answered from an International View point...when she was just talking purely about homeland American politics.

So try sticking to the Subject at hand Ben. This is supposed to be about the International community and I'm the only one still talking about it. You guys are talking about America...once again, as if the whole world never existed :rolleyes: :laugh:

I don't know what the hell you are talking about, Dave. Unless you are in the wrong thread. lol

This thread is titled 'Who is WE'? Speaking of The United States of America as We.

lol

Tyburn
06-14-2009, 04:41 PM
I don't know what the hell you are talking about, Dave. Unless you are in the wrong thread. lol

This thread is titled 'Who is WE'? Speaking of The United States of America as We.

lol
:blink: This is the wrong Thread I think....oooops :frantics:


Sorry :ashamed:

VCURamFan
06-14-2009, 06:35 PM
:blink: This is the wrong Thread I think....oooops :frantics:


Sorry :ashamed: :tongue0011:

See, Dave, if you kept your posting down to a reasonable amount like the rest of of, this wouldn't happen!:laugh:

(:happydancing:I beat Dave!!!!:happydancing:)

NateR
06-14-2009, 06:42 PM
While I do like Superman, he's probably my favorite DC superhero (with Martian Manhunter being a close second). I just can't see putting him on a team at all. He's too powerful and, like Spider-Man and Batman, is really better as a solo operator.

Captain America is just the quintessential "rally the troops" type of hero, so he gets to be the leader of my team.

VCURamFan
06-14-2009, 06:45 PM
I guess that now we need to go ahead & put Tim on the list of fighters that needs to hang up the gloves, too, huh? Man, what a way to crush your career!

atomdanger
06-14-2009, 06:49 PM
I dont want to be mean...but you dont seem to understand Democrasy, nor do you seem to be at all humble in your dealings with the rest of the world. You believe that you alone have the ultimate power and the ultimate right. That is Pride...that will eventually be your downfall

Getting Congressional approval is only HALF your battle to committing a Just war. As I understand it, in regards to Iraq, both the UK and US broke International Law whilst maintaining their own law of the land within their boarders. THAT doesnt make it Just.

That is what I was trying to say in the other thread,
we think we're the best, we think we're always right.
A lot of the time we act like the bratty bully kid in school,
our reasons are always justified, we do not admit wrong,
and we do what we want.

NateR
06-14-2009, 07:06 PM
That is what I was trying to say in the other thread,
we think we're the best, we think we're always right.
A lot of the time we act like the bratty bully kid in school,
our reasons are always justified, we do not admit wrong,
and we do what we want.

To quote Iron Man:
"That's how dad did it. That's how America does it. And it's worked out pretty well so far."

:)

atomdanger
06-14-2009, 08:35 PM
To quote Iron Man:
"That's how dad did it. That's how America does it. And it's worked out pretty well so far."

:)

lol
I love that movie.

Tyburn
06-14-2009, 08:46 PM
:tongue0011:

See, Dave, if you kept your posting down to a reasonable amount like the rest of of, this wouldn't happen!:laugh:

(:happydancing:I beat Dave!!!!:happydancing:)
:rolleyes: Even I get it wrong sometimes Ben :ashamed:


...but not often :ninja:

:laugh:

Crisco
06-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Wrong.

Right.
Doesn't matter.
Sometimes.
Absolutely.
Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.
Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

Actually I don't know if you could call it was but back when Andrew Jackson was President he was ordered by congress to send troops to I believe Florida or some such after people there where breaking treatings with the Iroqui confederacies and killing them and so fourth. Jackson was an Avid Indian hater and refused. His detractors felt it was grounds for impeachment but nothing after came of it. (Some of my facts may be a bit off.)

VCURamFan
06-15-2009, 12:29 PM
Actually I don't know if you could call it was but back when Andrew Jackson was President he was ordered by congress to send troops to I believe Florida or some such after people there where breaking treatings with the Iroqui confederacies and killing them and so fourth. Jackson was an Avid Indian hater and refused. His detractors felt it was grounds for impeachment but nothing after came of it. (Some of my facts may be a bit off.)O, cool. I didn't know that.

(but overall, I'm still right & I still beat Dave!!!:tongue0011:)

Crisco
06-15-2009, 12:58 PM
O, cool. I didn't know that.

(but overall, I'm still right & I still beat Dave!!!:tongue0011:)

Yes.

America Victa!