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rockdawg21
06-10-2009, 03:20 PM
I can't find an unedited video of this, but, rumor on the internet is the woman is not allowing it to be released. To me, that says she saw it, then realized what she'd done.

Article:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/?GT1=43001

Great-grandma dared cop to Tase her, so he did
Woman, 72, refused to sign traffic ticket; an argument, and then a zap

By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 1 hour, 38 minutes ago

First there was the college student who gave the language the immortal phrase “Don’t Tase me, bro!” before being zapped by police. Now, there’s the 72-year-old great-grandmother who told a cop, “Go ahead. Tase me” — and got what she asked for.

Kathryn Winkfein was stopped for doing 60 mph in a 45 zone in her pickup truck on a highway near Austin, Texas. After Deputy Chris Bieze finished writing the ticket, he gave it to her and asked her to sign it.

Winkfein refused. Bieze insisted, saying he would have to arrest her if she didn’t sign the ticket. When she wouldn’t sign, he opened the door to the truck and told her to get out.

Differing accounts
This all happened around 2 p.m. on May 11. But it didn’t become news until Winkfein told a local television station that she had been mistreated. The Travis County Constable’s Office alleged that she had been argumentative and profane. She denied the charge, telling a local Fox News reporter, “I was not argumentative. I was not combative. Every bit of this is a lie.”

In response, the constable’s office released the dashboard video of the arrest, which shows Winkfein using vulgar language and daring Bieze to use his Taser. According to the time stamp on the dashboard video, it was at least seven minutes from when Bieze told the elderly woman to get out of her truck until he finally hit her with 50,000 volts of low-amperage electricity and she fell screaming to the ground.

Winkfein has not commented since the video was released. According to the local Fox station, she has hired an attorney.

When Bieze tells her to get out of her truck, Winkfein says, “Take me to jail. Go on and take me to jail.”

“Step on out,” the officer commands.

The woman gets out of the truck and walks along the side of the road, close to the fog line separating the shoulder from the traffic lane.

“Give me the [expletive] thing and I’ll sign it,” she tells Bieze, but the officer has already told her she is being arrested. When Winkfein strays close to the traffic lane, the officer pushes her onto the shoulder.

“You’re gonna shove a 72-year-old woman?” Winkfein yells at him.

“If you don’t step back, you’re gonna be Tased,” Bieze says.

That’s when Winkfein said, “Go ahead. Tase me.”

‘I dare you’
Even then, Bieze did not use the Taser he had out and ready. He attempted to grab her, but Winkfein twisted away.

“Step back or you’re gonna be Tased, ma’am,” Bieze says again.

“I dare you,” she said.

Winkfein then decided she was leaving and tried to walk back to her truck.

“I’m getting back in my car,” she said.

“You’re gonna be Tased,” Bieze said, blocking her path.

“I’m getting back in my car,” she insists.

“No, ma’am,” he says.

That’s when he finally fired the Taser and Winkfein went down screaming.

“Now put your hands behind your back!” Bieze orders the woman, who has fallen out of the picture. “Put your hands behind your back, or you’re gonna be Tased again!”

Bieze finally took Winkfein into custody and charged her with resisting arrest.

Sgt. Maj. Gary Griffin of the Travis County, Texas, Constable’s Office told NBC News that Bieze acted appropriately.

“He mitigated this event safely, effectively and efficiently. Nobody sustained any injury,” Griffin said.

Crisco
06-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Sounds like the lady got what she deserved.

County Mike
06-10-2009, 05:01 PM
I know some people will say "Why did he have to tase her? Why couldn't he just cuff her?" Truth is, she was more likely to be harmed if he had to forcefully restrain and cuff her. The tazer might seem wicked, but her getting tazed into submission is a lot better than being wrestled into submission (for her).

Crisco
06-10-2009, 05:02 PM
I know some people will say "Why did he have to tase her? Why couldn't he just cuff her?" Truth is, she was more likely to be harmed if he had to forcefully restrain and cuff her. The tazer might seem wicked, but her getting tazed into submission is a lot better than being wrestled into submission (for her).

Very true. Getting body locked and slammed on the floor by cop is worse for her then getting tazed down.

Hughes_GOAT
06-10-2009, 08:10 PM
should have tazed her sooner!

J.B.
06-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Dude, it's a friggin 72 year old woman....

If you need to taze her, you should not be a cop. Seriously.

Tazers are dangerous, and have been known to kill people who's body could not handle that. I'm sure getting zapped is not easy when you are 72. If he actually NEEDED to arrest her, ANY cop should be able to safely restrain a 72 year old woman without really harming her more than a couple bruises. I'm surprised the tazer did not give her a damn heart attack.

Sure, the lady might have been out of line, but give me a break. It's not like she was committing a major crime. She was just pissed off about getting a ticket, it happens. Obviously she is just a cantankerous old woman, and the officer should have realized this and let her sign the ticket and be on her way once she finally agreed to do so.

Now, it's become a major story, it looks bad for the police department, and now she has a lawyer. Even if nothing comes of her charges that she was abused by the cop, it's still costing more tax dollars than it ever needed to in the first place by having to go court. A ridiculous waste of resources that could have easily been avoided. Overall, I think it was horrible judgment by the officer.

Hughes_GOAT
06-10-2009, 08:50 PM
i was just kidding JB

J.B.
06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
i was just kidding JB

I figured that much, and I was just talking in general, not really to anybody specifically. :laugh:

Llamafighter
06-10-2009, 10:11 PM
Why didn't she go around the other way to get into her truck?:laugh:

I understand that she was an old woman, but honestly the law shouldn't discriminate against age.
I've never been to a law enforcement academy but I don't think they show you 2 ways to take down a criminal depending on whether or not they're over 70.
If she pulled a gun and he shot her it wouldn't be an issue.

It's not like he quick drew the taser without warning and shot her down. She got 5 warnings and continued to resist arrest. If he'd tackled her or got out his baton and tapped her with it, she could have seriously injured her.

J.B.
06-11-2009, 12:18 AM
Why didn't she go around the other way to get into her truck?:laugh:

I understand that she was an old woman, but honestly the law shouldn't discriminate against age.
I've never been to a law enforcement academy but I don't think they show you 2 ways to take down a criminal depending on whether or not they're over 70.
If she pulled a gun and he shot her it wouldn't be an issue.

It's not like he quick drew the taser without warning and shot her down. She got 5 warnings and continued to resist arrest. If he'd tackled her or got out his baton and tapped her with it, she could have seriously injured her.

Okay, I just actually got to watch the video, and Bill O'Reilly is about to talk about it on his show.

Seriously, look at that lady, and look at that Cop... He did not need to taze her, and he would not have had to tackle her or hit her with a baton either. The idea that everybody should get the same treatment is laughable.

He had no business arresting her in the first place. It was a SPEEDING violation. She eventually agreed to sign the ticket, but that was not good enough for the cop. He thought that she was a clear threat to humanity and needed to be tazed and taken to jail. Give me a break... this whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.

I am usually the guy who give the cops the benefit of the doubt, they have a tough job and they have to take each situation seriously, I respect that. However, this is just beyond the scope of a reasonable reaction to the situation. She did not even really do anything to him and he shoved her and screamed in her face. Class act. The reason she got out that side was because THE COP opened her door and made her get out. If he wanted to keep her off the road, he should have made her get out the other side, OR told her to walk to back of the vehicle away from the road instead of just SCREAMING in her face "GET OVER THERE NOW" like a drill sergeant on a roid rage.

How completely ridiculous... that cop was way out of line

sender
06-11-2009, 02:22 AM
AAHAHAHAHAAH sorry that funny... Does that make me a bad person?

Jason 16
06-11-2009, 06:36 AM
AAHAHAHAHAAH sorry that funny... Does that make me a bad person?
NO!!! I I thought it was funny

rearnakedchoke
06-11-2009, 12:42 PM
Dude, it's a friggin 72 year old woman....

If you need to taze her, you should not be a cop. Seriously.

Tazers are dangerous, and have been known to kill people who's body could not handle that. I'm sure getting zapped is not easy when you are 72. If he actually NEEDED to arrest her, ANY cop should be able to safely restrain a 72 year old woman without really harming her more than a couple bruises. I'm surprised the tazer did not give her a damn heart attack.

Sure, the lady might have been out of line, but give me a break. It's not like she was committing a major crime. She was just pissed off about getting a ticket, it happens. Obviously she is just a cantankerous old woman, and the officer should have realized this and let her sign the ticket and be on her way once she finally agreed to do so.

Now, it's become a major story, it looks bad for the police department, and now she has a lawyer. Even if nothing comes of her charges that she was abused by the cop, it's still costing more tax dollars than it ever needed to in the first place by having to go court. A ridiculous waste of resources that could have easily been avoided. Overall, I think it was horrible judgment by the officer.
nah man, she was resisting arrest and was acting erratic near a busy street he had no choice but to tase her bro ... it's better than her resisting a cuffing and then she falls and can't get up ... a hip replacement is expensive too .. she shoulda just did what he said and all woulda been ok ...

County Mike
06-11-2009, 01:13 PM
Bitch gotta recognize!

Crisco
06-11-2009, 01:29 PM
This just proves that no matter how old women get they still don't know there place.

rockdawg21
06-11-2009, 02:10 PM
This just proves that no matter how old women get they still don't know there place.
LOL :laugh:

matthughesfan21
06-11-2009, 04:32 PM
72 years old and already a great grandma? that screams trailer trash

Hughes_GOAT
06-11-2009, 04:44 PM
72 years old and already a great grandma? that screams trailer trash
not unless you consider having kids in your 20's "trailer trash?"

matthughesfan21
06-11-2009, 05:08 PM
not unless you consider having kids in your 20's "trailer trash?"being a 72 year old great gma would require like the average age of having kids to be about 17 maybe 18, if its just one generation, might just be a mistake.....but a whole lineage of family having children when they are still high school age? that seems a little trashy

Miss Foxy
06-11-2009, 05:30 PM
being a 72 year old great gma would require like the average age of having kids to be about 17 maybe 18, if its just one generation, might just be a mistake.....but a whole lineage of family having children when they are still high school age? that seems a little trashy
How is that trashy? My grandma is the same age and is a great-grandma and she is no where near trashy. Back in her days people married young and she married at 16 and had her first child at age 17.. :angry:
And for the record she is a home-owner and lives no where near a trailer park!

matthughesfan21
06-11-2009, 05:35 PM
How is that trashy? My grandma is the same age and is a great-grandma and she is no where near trashy. Back in her days people married young and she married at 16 and had her first child at age 17.. :angry:
And for the record she is a home-owner and lives no where near a trailer park!
they could get married that young?:huh:

well I didn't know that, I'm sorry, retract previous statements, it makes it a little more understandable if you are married...sorry

Miss Foxy
06-11-2009, 05:35 PM
Dude, it's a friggin 72 year old woman....

If you need to taze her, you should not be a cop. Seriously.

Tazers are dangerous, and have been known to kill people who's body could not handle that. I'm sure getting zapped is not easy when you are 72. If he actually NEEDED to arrest her, ANY cop should be able to safely restrain a 72 year old woman without really harming her more than a couple bruises. I'm surprised the tazer did not give her a damn heart attack.

Sure, the lady might have been out of line, but give me a break. It's not like she was committing a major crime. She was just pissed off about getting a ticket, it happens. Obviously she is just a cantankerous old woman, and the officer should have realized this and let her sign the ticket and be on her way once she finally agreed to do so.

Now, it's become a major story, it looks bad for the police department, and now she has a lawyer. Even if nothing comes of her charges that she was abused by the cop, it's still costing more tax dollars than it ever needed to in the first place by having to go court. A ridiculous waste of resources that could have easily been avoided. Overall, I think it was horrible judgment by the officer.
I totally agree. I hope she doesnt have dementia or any other illness. Sometimes when they get old they get looney and im not making a joke its serious... I am glad someone agrees that this was awful considering she could have went into cardiac arrest..:sad:

Miss Foxy
06-11-2009, 05:37 PM
they could get married that young?:huh:

well I didn't know that, I'm sorry, retract previous statements, it makes it a little more understandable if you are married...sorry
No its ok:wink: . Yeah who knows what rules and regulations went on back in the 50's!! LOL...

matthughesfan21
06-11-2009, 05:39 PM
No its ok:wink: . Yeah who knows what rules and regulations went on back in the 50's!! LOL...
for sure, back then they thought hiding under a thin wooden desk would protect you from a nuclear attack...it wasn't exactly are golden age:laugh:

Crisco
06-11-2009, 05:46 PM
No its ok:wink: . Yeah who knows what rules and regulations went on back in the 50's!! LOL...

Mexicans pfft

and Germans pfft

Miss Foxy
06-11-2009, 07:30 PM
Mexicans pfft

and Germans pfft
You dork!! I was gonna write back and tell you it wasnt the Mexican it was the other side your peeps!! Hehe!! Well wait "our" peeps!!.. :happydancing:

NateR
06-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Aside from pulling a gun on the cop or trying to stab him or something like that, I see no good reason for him to have tased that woman. I'm sure he could have tackled her down and handcuffed her if it came right down to it.

Crisco
06-11-2009, 08:21 PM
Aside from pulling a gun on the cop or trying to stab him or something like that, I see no good reason for him to have tased that woman. I'm sure he could have tackled her down and handcuffed her if it came right down to it.

Agreed but quite honestly the taz was probably the safer route to go as opposed to the tackle.

He followed procedure I'm pretty sure. She was a belligerent and fleeing suspect that didn't follow instructions.

I personally in that situation would not have tazed her but hindsight is 20/20.

assuming the lady did actually have a problem this could have easily turned into some sort of chase between ehr and the police if she managed to pull away from the scene in her car.

Old people are terrible drivers the cop was doing everyone a favor in stopping her before she could drive away.

NateR
06-11-2009, 08:31 PM
Agreed but quite honestly the taz was probably the safer route to go as opposed to the tackle.

He followed procedure I'm pretty sure. She was a belligerent and fleeing suspect that didn't follow instructions.

I personally in that situation would not have tazed her but hindsight is 20/20.

assuming the lady did actually have a problem this could have easily turned into some sort of chase between ehr and the police if she managed to pull away from the scene in her car.

Old people are terrible drivers the cop was doing everyone a favor in stopping her before she could drive away.

OR, the other option would be to let her go and have police waiting for her at her home. He had her name, driver's license and license plate numbers, and it's doubtful that she'd go on the run over a speeding ticket.

Crisco
06-11-2009, 08:41 PM
OR, the other option would be to let her go and have police waiting for her at her home. He had her name, driver's license and license plate numbers, and it's doubtful that she'd go on the run over a speeding ticket.

I guess. But you just never know. When someone is ready to fight with a cop when they obviously did something wrong it usually means they are not in a good state of mind.

There are a millions reasons to go either way I suppose.

J.B.
06-11-2009, 08:45 PM
I can't believe that people actually think that shooting her with a tazer makes this cop a humanitarian.

She could have broke her hip when she fell down, she could have had a heart attack.

There was NO reason to be arresting her, and NO reason to shoot her with a tazer. I gotta be honest, I am surprised at all the responses that condone this. Unbelievable.

rockdawg21
06-11-2009, 08:53 PM
I gotta be honest, I am surprised at all the responses that condone this. Unbelievable.
I haven't read the entire thread, but, I do know this much...

...comply with an officer's request, don't get tasered. Failure to comply = get tasered. When an officer is pointing a taser at you and says "Don't move", and you move, well, you're an idiot.

If your the person pulled over, whether you agree with the officer's request doesn't matter at this time. Do as requested now, defend yourself later. Virtually all police cruisers are equipped with a microphone and dash cam - all evidence needed to state your case if you feel the officer(s) violated your rights, can be proven later.

Crisco
06-11-2009, 08:58 PM
I can't believe that people actually think that shooting her with a tazer makes this cop a humanitarian.

She could have broke her hip when she fell down, she could have had a heart attack.

There was NO reason to be arresting her, and NO reason to shoot her with a tazer. I gotta be honest, I am surprised at all the responses that condone this. Unbelievable.

She brought it upon herself JB. If a cop says I'm going to arrest you if you won't do this and you don't do it your going to get arrested.

I can't say oh I take it back I'll sign it. She was resisting arrest and attempting to flee.

I don't think he should have tazed her but I see HIS point of view.

J.B.
06-11-2009, 09:05 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but, I do know this much...

...comply with an officer's request, don't get tasered. Failure to comply = get tasered. When an officer is pointing a taser at you and says "Don't move", and you move, well, you're an idiot.

Whether you agree with the officer's request doesn't matter at this time. Do as requested now, defend yourself later. Virtually all police cruisers are equipped with a microphone and dash cam - all evidence needed to state your case if you feel the officer(s) violated your rights, can be proven later.

Did you watch the video?

Do you think it was okay for the cop to push the lady and scream in her face? She is a 72 year old woman. I dont care about some "failure to comply" rhetoric, that is a cop out (no pun intended).

Cops are trained to deal with all kinds of situations, and make critical decisions at a moments notice. I respect that their job is tough, but SOME cops are just a**holes, and I think this was one of them. Seriously Rock, bro, don't try and stick up for a cop tazering a harmless old lady. There is no excuse for what happened here. He had no business placing her under arrest in the first place, let alone screaming at her, pushing her, and tazering her.

I don't know whats crazier, the fact that some people find this funny, or that some people actually think tazing her was a better idea than just restraining her. :banghead:

J.B.
06-11-2009, 09:10 PM
She brought it upon herself JB. If a cop says I'm going to arrest you if you won't do this and you don't do it your going to get arrested.

I can't say oh I take it back I'll sign it. She was resisting arrest and attempting to flee.

I don't think he should have tazed her but I see HIS point of view.

Yes, actually, he could have let her sign it and be on her way. Don't play that garbage. Most decent cops are not going to waste time and tax dollars to take a speeder to jail. Especially not a 72 year old woman, seriously give me a break.

She did not even walk two or three steps and he tazed her. Do you know how far those guns shoot? :laugh:

Maybe she was being difficult, but SO WHAT? Cops have to deal with that all the time. Maybe because he spends his day sitting on some rural highway waiting to bust people for going 60 mph on road with nothing but cows and tumbleweeds, he feels he needs to be vigilant in his work. Or in other words, be a d**khead...

Seriously, this cop was on a power-trip, and I have spent enough time in Texas to know how they roll down there.

If YOU or ME did that, we would not only get tazed, but we would get cuffed and THROWN in the back of the squad. HOWEVER, you and I are NOT 72 year old ladies, are we? :wink:

NateR
06-11-2009, 09:13 PM
I think that tasers are great tools for law-enforcement. However, this is not the first instance where I've heard of a cop who seems to be a little too quick with the taser-gun. If the police don't start showing a little more common sense and restraint (for instance, not tasing an old woman who you could most likely physically restrain with your bare hands), then this tool is in danger of being taken away.

My landlord suffers from insomnia, so he's often awake until 3 or 4 in the morning. So I guess one night he was watching the weather forecast for the next day and realized there was a big storm coming up. So he decided to go outside and rake the rocks from around the garage to prevent the water from flooding the inside. While he is doing this he feels two sharp pains in his back and hears a "Don't move or I'll tase you." One of the local police had shot him with the taser darts and was just waiting for a reason to shock him. Sure it was a little weird to be doing yard work at 3 in the morning, but since when is that against the law? Especially in the parking lot of your own home? The cop was a little too quick with that taser gun and I think that's potentially a dangerous thing.

When I hear that account from my landlord and read stories like this, it just seems to be smaller symptoms of a much grander problem.

If you fear for your life enough to tase a 72 year old woman, then you really have no business being a cop.

Miss Foxy
06-11-2009, 09:15 PM
I think that tasers are great tools for law-enforcement. However, this is not the first instance where I've heard of a cop who seems to be a little too quick with the taser-gun. If the police don't start showing a little more common sense and restraint (for instance, not tasing an old woman who you could most likely physically restrain with your bare hands), then this tool is in danger of being taken away.

My landlord suffers from insomnia, so he's often awake until 3 or 4 in the morning. So I guess one night he was watching the weather forecast for the next day and realized there was a big storm coming up. So he decided to go outside and rake the rocks from around the garage to prevent the water from flooding the inside. While he is doing this he feels two sharp pains in his back and hears a "Don't move or I'll tase you." One of the local police had shot him with the taser darts and was just waiting for a reason to shock him. Sure it was a little weird to be doing yard work at 3 in the morning, but since when is that against the law? Especially in the parking lot of your own home? The cop was a little too quick with that taser gun and I think that's potentially a dangerous thing.

When I hear that account from my landlord and read stories like this, it just seems to be smaller symptoms of a much grander problem.

If you fear for your life enough to tase a 72 year old woman, then you really have no business being a cop.
Very well put!! At her age her bones are fragile and more so her heart.. Thats scary!! Too many cops playing "Robocop"....

J.B.
06-11-2009, 09:22 PM
If you fear for your life enough to tase a 72 year old woman, then you really have no business being a cop.

DING DING DING!!! Winner winner chicken dinner! :)


Side note on "Tazer" guns. They make them at a place in Arizona called Tazer International. When I was living in the Phoenix area, I was a sound-guy and roadie for a traveling country music band who was asked to play a benefit show for fallen officers AT Tazer International. There were over 5,000 cops from all over the country at this thing, partying and getting wasted. Needless to say, they were having some fun with the tazer guns, and it really was like a real life version of Reno 911. We made some good friends there, but let me assure you, there are some people patrolling the streets of America who have NO business being cops. :laugh:

rockdawg21
06-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Did you watch the video?

Do you think it was okay for the cop to push the lady and scream in her face? She is a 72 year old woman. I dont care about some "failure to comply" rhetoric, that is a cop out (no pun intended).

Cops are trained to deal with all kinds of situations, and make critical decisions at a moments notice. I respect that their job is tough, but SOME cops are just a**holes, and I think this was one of them. Seriously Rock, bro, don't try and stick up for a cop tazering a harmless old lady. There is no excuse for what happened here. He had no business placing her under arrest in the first place, let alone screaming at her, pushing her, and tazering her.

I don't know whats crazier, the fact that some people find this funny, or that some people actually think tazing her was a better idea than just restraining her. :banghead:
I don't care if the lady is 72, does that make her a special case, just because of her age? For all that cop knows, she was trying to go back to her vehicle and get a shotgun. It is Texas :laugh:

Yes I did watch the video. What I saw, was the part where they made it look as if the policeman was being abusive, they didn't show anything that led up to the event. I've seen tons of videos just like this where they release only a portion to the public. Go watch some of the full-length videos on YouTube; usually, the person is cursing at the cop and/or attempting to flee on foot or in their vehicles when they refuse to sign the ticket. In this case, the video was given to the lady, who was planning to release it publicly, but retracted (I'm guessing, either at an attorney's advice or she decided not to embarrass herself). According to the article, which was quoted from events prior to the video (the parts which haven't been displayed publicly), the lady was cursing at the officer, told the officer to take her to jail, and even dared him to tase her.

Even 5 year olds are taught by their great grandmothers that rules are rules and failing to follow those rules has consequences.

NateR
06-11-2009, 09:32 PM
So is it "taser" or "tazer"? Either way my spellcheck doesn't like it.

J.B.
06-11-2009, 09:45 PM
I don't care if the lady is 72, does that make her a special case, just because of her age? For all that cop knows, she was trying to go back to her vehicle and get a shotgun. It is Texas :laugh:

Yes I did watch the video. What I saw, was the part where they made it look as if the policeman was being abusive, they didn't show anything that led up to the event. I've seen tons of videos just like this where they release only a portion to the public. Go watch some of the full-length videos on YouTube; usually, the person is cursing at the cop and/or attempting to flee on foot or in their vehicles when they refuse to sign the ticket. In this case, the video was given to the lady, who was planning to release it publicly, but retracted (I'm guessing, either at an attorney's advice or she decided not to embarrass herself). According to the article, which was quoted from events prior to the video (the parts which haven't been displayed publicly), the lady was cursing at the officer, told the officer to take her to jail, and even dared him to tase her.

Even 5 year olds are taught by their great grandmothers that rules are rules and failing to follow those rules has consequences.


Dude, it shows what is pertinent to the situation, in real time.

He opens the door, and forces her out of the vehicle, then SCREAMS in her face as he leads her to the back of the vehicle. Then he pushes her rather than asking her to move away from the street. She takes a couple steps in the opposite direction and BANG he shoots her.

Cussing at a cop is not a reason to taze somebody, sorry. You can rally to defend him all you want, but it's completely ridiculous and uncalled for. Nate said it, and I said it, if you are afraid of a 72 year old woman, and feel the need to draw your tazer in that situation you have NO business being a cop.

Bonnie
06-11-2009, 09:55 PM
I agree with Nate's take on this. When they first came out with these tasers and they showed how they worked and how people go down, my first thought was, yeah, okay, but what if they shoot someone who has a bad heart or it causes someone's heart to stop beating? What about if someone has a pacemaker? There was a local case here in Houston last year where they tasered a man and he died. Unfortunately, for the police the man was a "mentally challenged" individual. I don't remember all the particulars but, I believe, the mom sued and won. I think they found the officers acted overly aggressive in the situation.

I really think the officer should either have let her sign the ticket once she acquiesced or called for back up just to cover his back and "safely" arrest her. I do think the lady was in the wrong, but given her age, some common sense using the taser should have been shown. Like JB said there are people who are cops who should never ever be allowed to have a badge and gun (or taser).

NateR
06-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I agree with Nate's take on this. When they first came out with these tasers and they showed how they worked and how people go down, my first thought was, yeah, okay, but what if they shoot someone who has a bad heart or it causes someone's heart to stop beating? What about if someone has a pacemaker? There was a local case here in Houston last year where they tasered a man and he died. Unfortunately, for the police the man was a "mentally challenged" individual. I don't remember all the particulars but, I believe, the mom sued and won. I think they found the officers acted overly aggressive in the situation.

I really think the officer should either have let her sign the ticket once she acquiesced or called for back up just to cover his back and "safely" arrest her. I do think the lady was in the wrong, but given her age, some common sense using the taser should have been shown. Like JB said there are people who are cops who should never ever be allowed to have a badge and gun (or taser).

It kind of reminds me of the Army MPs (Military Police) where they take a 19 year old kid, send him through a few weeks of training, put a gun in his hand, and expect him to show restraint, wisdom and common sense.

We don't live in a police state. Our law enforcement officers are servants of the people, not the be-all/end-all of the law. Sure this woman was being disrespectful and kind of a bitch, but injuring a cop's pride is no excuse for tazing her.

I wouldn't have condoned the cop punching the woman, I wouldn't condone him shooting her, why in the world should we condone him tazing her?

J.B.
06-11-2009, 11:18 PM
It kind of reminds me of the Army MPs (Military Police) where they take a 19 year old kid, send him through a few weeks of training, put a gun in his hand, and expect him to show restraint, wisdom and common sense.

We don't live in a police state. Our law enforcement officers are servants of the people, not the be-all/end-all of the law. Sure this woman was being disrespectful and kind of a bitch, but injuring a cop's pride is no excuse for tazing her.

I wouldn't have condoned the cop punching the woman, I wouldn't condone him shooting her, why in the world should we condone him tazing her?


This is spot on.

In my last post I was originally going to comment that to me it seemed like the cop was taking the "I AM THE LAW" attitude, and that's just ridiculous. However, you worded it perfectly, they are servants of the people. The tazing was uncalled for.

rockdawg21
06-12-2009, 01:24 AM
So is it "taser" or "tazer"? Either way my spellcheck doesn't like it.
It is taser, with an "s".

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=tazer&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2 even Yahoo says, "Did you mean 'taser'"?

Even the official website is www.taser.com and the NASDAQ is TASR

rockdawg21
06-12-2009, 01:32 AM
Dude, it shows what is pertinent to the situation, in real time.

He opens the door, and forces her out of the vehicle, then SCREAMS in her face as he leads her to the back of the vehicle. Then he pushes her rather than asking her to move away from the street. She takes a couple steps in the opposite direction and BANG he shoots her.

Cussing at a cop is not a reason to taze somebody, sorry. You can rally to defend him all you want, but it's completely ridiculous and uncalled for. Nate said it, and I said it, if you are afraid of a 72 year old woman, and feel the need to draw your tazer in that situation you have NO business being a cop.
Bleh, we just don't see eye to eye on too many things, so there's not really any point in going back & forth on this too. You like Mayweather, I don't :laugh:

I'm not necessarily condoning the actions of the cop, but we're not in that situation. Just because she's 72 years old and a woman doesn't mean she's harmless. A bullet is still just as effective from a 72 year old as it is from a 25 year old. Nobody knows what she may have had in her vehicle. :fighting0008:

J.B.
06-12-2009, 01:43 AM
Bleh, we just don't see eye to eye on too many things, so there's not really any point in going back & forth on this too. You like Mayweather, I don't :laugh:

I'm not necessarily condoning the actions of the cop, but we're not in that situation. Just because she's 72 years old and a woman doesn't mean she's harmless. A bullet is still just as effective from a 72 year old as it is from a 25 year old. Nobody knows what she may have had in her vehicle. :fighting0008:

First of all, you are right, it's Taser, with an "S" :laugh:

Second, we agree on more things than I think you realize. However, don't bring Money May into this, he did not Taser the old lady, even though I'm sure The Ring magazine will find a way to spin it! :tongue0011:

Third, I can see where you are going with that point, but the proof is in the pudding my friend. That lady was NOT a real threat, and he could have stopped her from getting in the truck without shooting her with the taser. Also, going back to a point I made earlier; The cop says he pushed her so that he could get her away from the street. Well, why did he force her out of the car on that side of the road? I have been pulled over on a busy street before and told to slide over and get out the passenger side. So I am not buying his "get away from the road" excuse.

Obviously the lady was being a pain in the ass, I just think the cop was out of line. I also don't buy the argument that shooting her with the taser was better than grabbing her, sorry, I can't buy that. Bruises and broken bones are not likely to kill a person, but shooting somebody with a taser is a gamble every time. Young and healthy people have died from those things, and I don't think shooting a person with a taser that you could physically control (i.e. a tiny 72 year old woman) is a good decision. Not to mention the fact that arresting an old lady over being disgruntled about a speeding ticket is a just a WASTE of time and money.

NateR
06-12-2009, 06:39 AM
I don't care if the lady is 72, does that make her a special case, just because of her age? For all that cop knows, she was trying to go back to her vehicle and get a shotgun. It is Texas :laugh:

Yes, because septuagenarian women going on shooting rampages just happens all too often these days.:rolleyes:

matt hughes
06-12-2009, 06:49 AM
just my 2 cents

i think the cop pushed her out of anger not her safety. i also believe he shot her out of anger. is anyone going to say that he felt threatened ? not many situations are going to be "by the book". police treat every situation different and they should. i believe this guy is way out of line. did he say "lets move out of traffic"? or "mam i cant let you back in your vehicle at this time"? did he still have her drivers license? shot he could have just let he drive away and went to her house later. he had her info. i would have let her sign the ticket and just go. i don't see how this 200 plus man is going to do that to her. i think its sad to be honest.

Mac
06-12-2009, 06:53 AM
1 more of em out there with robo cop syndrome .

Got alot of friends that are police officers , Its just seems all to often that when the badge gets clipped on , the common sence thinking and other rational thought goes down the tube , Not all of them are like this but most are. Its like they think , " im a cop now , kneel before me or face the consequnces"

And i think the cop is a punk that tased that old woman . Hell he shoved her to . He was big enough to gently pick her up and set her out of the way . He needs to lose his job in the very least.

J.B.
06-12-2009, 07:04 AM
just my 2 cents

i think the cop pushed her out of anger not her safety. i also believe he shot her out of anger. is anyone going to say that he felt threatened ? not many situations are going to be "by the book". police treat every situation different and they should. i believe this guy is way out of line. did he say "lets move out of traffic"? or "mam i cant let you back in your vehicle at this time"? did he still have her drivers license? shot he could have just let he drive away and went to her house later. he had her info. i would have let her sign the ticket and just go. i don't see how this 200 plus man is going to do that to her. i think its sad to be honest.


:cool:

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 11:17 AM
And what woulda happened had this lady been so hysterical, that she ran on the road and hurt herself or a bystander? people would have said, this cop didn't do his job, isn't competent ... i am not a cop, but i am sure they are trained to always expect the unexpected and act in a manner is keeps them and the people around them safe ... in the end, sure he makes him look like a horrible person, but it may be a deterrent to those next time they decide to argue with the po-po because they don't look like the "average criminal" ...

Crisco
06-12-2009, 12:51 PM
After re watching the video I don't think he had noble intention but my have inadvertantly done less damage then what could have happened.

I still wouldn't have tazed her and I don't think he should have either.

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 01:36 PM
just my 2 cents

i think the cop pushed her out of anger not her safety. i also believe he shot her out of anger. is anyone going to say that he felt threatened ? not many situations are going to be "by the book". police treat every situation different and they should. i believe this guy is way out of line. did he say "lets move out of traffic"? or "mam i cant let you back in your vehicle at this time"? did he still have her drivers license? shot he could have just let he drive away and went to her house later. he had her info. i would have let her sign the ticket and just go. i don't see how this 200 plus man is going to do that to her. i think its sad to be honest.

Those are some good points, Matt. I see your point.
JB, your points were also well made. my initial opinion was a bit harsh and I've had time to look at it again.
It doesn't sound like his boss thought he did anything wrong. I hope they at least have gone over some of the options he had.
glad she wasn't hurt.

Miss Foxy
06-12-2009, 02:16 PM
Why do some of you change your views once Matt speaks his opinion? I know Matt is the man, but I didnt know his powers work on men too? :laugh: Im playing with you guys :laugh:

Crisco
06-12-2009, 02:32 PM
Why do some of you change your views once Matt speaks his opinion? I know Matt is the man, but I didnt know his powers work on men too? :laugh: Im playing with you guys :laugh:

I actually was thinking about it last night before bed.

I want to be a cop so I put myself in his shoes and tried to see what I would have done in that situation.

As I've said before I never would have tased her. I most likely would have had her sign the ticket and gone on with my business.

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Why do some of you change your views once Matt speaks his opinion? I know Matt is the man, but I didnt know his powers work on men too? :laugh: Im playing with you guys :laugh:

:rolleyes: It finally hit me that I was actually defending the tasing of a 72 yr old woman. different perspectives can breed changes in opinions. that's why it's great we have free thought.
...and I don't want Matt to beat me up for defending the tasing of a 72 yr old woman :unsure-1:
:wink:

TexasRN
06-12-2009, 03:03 PM
I like to hear different opinions on things so that I can either strengthen my own beliefs or change my mind. When someone I respect has a differing opinion than I do, I put serious thought into what they have to say. I think that's what happens on this forum. So quit picking on Mark, Miss Foxy....:tongue0011: :laugh:

(you know I'm playing with ya)


~Amy

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Why do some of you change your views once Matt speaks his opinion? I know Matt is the man, but I didnt know his powers work on men too? :laugh: Im playing with you guys :laugh:
i as thinking the same thing ... some people just can't think for themselves .... i have said along that the lady got what she deserved ... she fought the law and the law won ...

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 04:25 PM
i as thinking the same thing ... some people just can't think for themselves .... i have said along that the lady got what she deserved ... she fought the law and the law won ...

Is that what you call what you do :laugh:

I'm not too proud to change my mind. It had more to do with the accumulation of good points made by a lot of forumites that I respect.
Now I know Miss Foxy was "just playing", but I always get the feeling from you and a few others that you just enjoy pushing buttons.

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Is that what you call what you do :laugh:

I'm not too proud to change my mind. It had more to do with the accumulation of good points made by a lot of forumites that I respect.
Now I know Miss Foxy was "just playing", but I always get the feeling from you and a few others that you just enjoy pushing buttons.
LOL .. it is very seldom on here people change their minds and that quick .. just admit it, it is matt's sight and you want to be in agreement with him ... but don't make it look so obvious ... LOL

Hughes_GOAT
06-12-2009, 04:44 PM
my dad was a cop for 30 years and i'm pretty sure he wouldn't taze a 72 year old. now a 71 year old is different.

Crisco
06-12-2009, 04:49 PM
my dad was a cop for 30 years and i'm pretty sure he wouldn't taze a 72 year old. now a 71 year old is different.

What if she was an extremely spry woman? Throwing karate style kicks at him. Would he tase her?

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 05:04 PM
LOL .. it is very seldom on here people change their minds and that quick .. just admit it, it is matt's sight and you want to be in agreement with him ... but don't make it look so obvious ... LOL

so two days to look over 20 posts including Nate's and JB's and numerous other people's...who actually made a lot of the same points Matt made (see I read them all) is quick?

I change my mind occassionally about things I'm not that educated in, because information can do that to ya.
for instance: your posts on this matter (in reference to me) informed me that you are a douchebag. I doubt I'll move from that midset;)

TexasRN
06-12-2009, 05:11 PM
I change my mind all the time after learning more about a subject and thinking it over. Imagine that. Education and logical debate making a difference.....

edited to add: Miss Foxy was playing, I was playing back. This has nothing to do with her post. I am just posting my thoughts on what Mark has said.



~Amy

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 05:18 PM
so two days to look over 20 posts including Nate's and JB's and numerous other people's...who actually made a lot of the same points Matt made (see I read them all) is quick?

I change my mind occassionally about things I'm not that educated in, because information can do that to ya.
for instance: your posts on this matter (in reference to me) informed me that you are a douchebag. I doubt I'll move from that midset;)
I guess i am a douchebag that can think for himself ... keep flip floppin, it makes you look good ...

Crisco
06-12-2009, 05:20 PM
I guess i am a douchebag that can think for himself ... keep flip floppin, it makes you look good ...

http://tcor.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/whore-mouth.jpg

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 05:24 PM
I guess i am a douchebag that can think for himself ... keep flip floppin, it makes you look good ...

I don't care how it makes me look. I won't stick to a bad opinion, if I'm proven wrong. THAT would be ignorant.

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't care how it makes me look. I won't stick to a bad opinion, if I'm proven wrong. THAT would be ignorant.
Since this is all opinion, no one can be wrong or right .. but your first post was spot on, he warned her and then tased her, you also stated you weren't in law enforcement and didn't know what you would do, but other people in law have said he did the right thing .. it is ok for us civilians to feel bad for the old lady, but we are not cops ... what if the video had been of an old iraqi lady and the cop was a US military personnel .. most responses would be that he warned her more than enough and had to take action .. sure she could have had a bomb on her, but chances are he wouldn't have the chance to warn her if she did ...

i just watched this video and she is a liar, she denied she said all the stuff she did and now the video is up, she is not talking ... give her a day in jail for resisting arrest i say ...

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 05:32 PM
http://tcor.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/whore-mouth.jpg
LOL ... great pic always, no matter who it is aimed at ...

Crisco
06-12-2009, 05:35 PM
LOL ... great pic always, no matter who it is aimed at ...

I said the exact same thing. IT IS ALWAYS FUNNY.

It's a Lolcatz hall of fame for sure.

Miss Foxy
06-12-2009, 05:37 PM
We all press each others buttons so who really cares? None of ya'll are really douche bags.. Our community one has been quiet lately..:laugh: I do test buttons I must admit that..Sorry boys, but you do it back and soon County Mike will get on here or Cris and put me back in my place as a woman!! :laugh: Its all in fun & games..

Crisco
06-12-2009, 05:43 PM
We all press each others buttons so who really cares? None of ya'll are really douche bags.. Our community one has been quiet lately..:laugh: I do test buttons I must admit that..Sorry boys, but you do it back and soon County Mike will get on here or Cris and put me back in my place as a woman!! :laugh: Its all in fun & games..

I'm waiting for my sandwich woman.


Don't make me get the TAZER

matthughesfan21
06-12-2009, 05:44 PM
I just watched the video for the first time...when she said "just give me the **** thing and I"ll sign it" He yells at her in a very, I'm king of the world attitude, and then pushes her, in no way did that look like a shove for safety reasons, but rather anger...he didn't need to tase her, and he didn't need to act like he was almighty man

Llamafighter
06-12-2009, 05:47 PM
Since this is all opinion, no one can be wrong or right .. but your first post was spot on, he warned her and then tased her, you also stated you weren't in law enforcement and didn't know what you would do, but other people in law have said he did the right thing .. it is ok for us civilians to feel bad for the old lady, but we are not cops ... what if the video had been of an old iraqi lady and the cop was a US military personnel .. most responses would be that he warned her more than enough and had to take action .. sure she could have had a bomb on her, but chances are he wouldn't have the chance to warn her if she did ...

i just watched this video and she is a liar, she denied she said all the stuff she did and now the video is up, she is not talking ... give her a day in jail for resisting arrest i say ...

I do see your point but honestly the differences between the cop during a traffic stop and military personnel in a hostile environment are to big. It's about recognizing a clear and present danger based on the situation. Had it been a truck full of 30 yr old men and the driver was resisting? then tasing or drawing his weapon (more likely) would be sufficient. with the lady he could have blocked her away from traffic all day and probably restrained her with one arm. if not, then his physical preparedness should be called into question.
I didn't have a taser when I used to bust shoplifters;)
She was obviously in the wrong and lying to the media proves that (unless she suffers from dymetia or something), but I think the method of apprehension could have been less aggressive and potentially dangerous.

Miss Foxy
06-12-2009, 05:48 PM
I just watched the video for the first time...when she said "just give me the **** thing and I"ll sign it" He yells at her in a very, I'm king of the world attitude, and then pushes her, in no way did that look like a shove for safety reasons, but rather anger...he didn't need to tase her, and he didn't need to act like he was almighty man
Yup! Its like he is demanding respect. I feel very bad for our seniors. Too much technology, medical & prescription bills, health ailments, and other things. I would be a grouchy hag myself if Robocop wanted to give me a ticket!:punch:

Crisco
06-12-2009, 05:49 PM
Yup! Its like he is demanding respect. I feel very bad for our seniors. Too much technology, medical & prescription bills, health ailments, and other things. I would be a grouchy hag myself if Robocop wanted to give me a ticket!:punch:

She should have tried to seduce him instead of curse at him. He obviously has a huge ego. Might have worked.


Gross

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 05:51 PM
I just watched the video for the first time...when she said "just give me the **** thing and I"ll sign it" He yells at her in a very, I'm king of the world attitude, and then pushes her, in no way did that look like a shove for safety reasons, but rather anger...he didn't need to tase her, and he didn't need to act like he was almighty man
But she had already refused to sign it, and he made her get out, told her she was being arrested and then she asked to sign it .... so by that point, it was academic that she was gonna get arrested .... then she refused to listen to him ...

rearnakedchoke
06-12-2009, 05:53 PM
I do see your point but honestly the differences between the cop during a traffic stop and military personnel in a hostile environment are to big. It's about recognizing a clear and present danger based on the situation. Had it been a truck full of 30 yr old men and the driver was resisting? then tasing or drawing his weapon (more likely) would be sufficient. with the lady he could have blocked her away from traffic all day and probably restrained her with one arm. if not, then his physical preparedness should be called into question.
I didn't have a taser when I used to bust shoplifters;)
She was obviously in the wrong and lying to the media proves that (unless she suffers from dymetia or something), but I think the method of apprehension could have been less aggressive and potentially dangerous.
like i said, what would have happened had she went out on the street and got kit by a car, people would have said this guy was incompetent and he put the public in danger by not restraining her .. it is a touchy situation, but people have been tased for less ...

CAVEMAN
06-12-2009, 06:16 PM
The cop should not of tased the old lady....PLAIN & SIMPLE! Tasers are dangerous and have killed people before. Nate probably remembers this as well as some other Illinois people. See video below. This happen in a town just 6 miles up the road from me back in 2006. A 17 year old was killed when cops tased him TWICE, while he was already in handcuffs. Totally uncalled for.


http://www.kmov.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=98235

Primadawn
06-12-2009, 09:20 PM
I'm waiting for my sandwich woman.


Don't make me get the TAZER


Please note that it has been established on this very thread that the proper spelling is "TASER". "TASR" would also have been accepted.

TAZER=FAIL

Crisco
06-12-2009, 09:24 PM
Please note that it has been established on this very thread that the proper spelling is "TASER". "TASR" would also have been accepted.

TAZER=FAIL

Please note Dawn that according to Forrest Griffins book of manliness I'm allowed to ignore such things and continue on with my spelling of Tazer because of my level of manliness.


Now... Sandwich or I get the Tazer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Miss Foxy
06-12-2009, 09:46 PM
The cop should not of tased the old lady....PLAIN & SIMPLE! Tasers are dangerous and have killed people before. Nate probably remembers this as well as some other Illinois people. See video below. This happen in a town just 6 miles up the road from me back in 2006. A 17 year old was killed when cops tased him TWICE, while he was already in handcuffs. Totally uncalled for.


http://www.kmov.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=98235
:sad:

matthughesfan21
06-12-2009, 10:21 PM
But she had already refused to sign it, and he made her get out, told her she was being arrested and then she asked to sign it .... so by that point, it was academic that she was gonna get arrested .... then she refused to listen to him ...
that does not give him the right to scream at the top of his "I'm a hard as$" lungs, and then push her...no matter how hateful that women was being, that does not warrant his response, police officers are trained to stay level headed and act responsibly and ethically, but this officer did not

MattHughesRocks
06-12-2009, 11:13 PM
My 2 cents...that man needs tazed and fired.What an ass

However, I just spend several days with my 75 year old mom and sister ( sister isn't yet 75:laugh: ) but that was our sentence of the past few days. If mom didn't agree one of would say " taze her!:angry: "

I know, I'm terrible :laugh:

J.B.
06-12-2009, 11:23 PM
give her a day in jail for resisting arrest i say ...

Shooting her with the Taser was not enough? :blink:

He had no business arresting her in the first place, so the argument that she was resisting arrest is a bit moot. He should have had her sign that ticket and be on her way. Not to mention she only took about two steps in the opposite direction before he shot her with the taser gun.

NateR
06-13-2009, 12:00 AM
Speeding is not an arrestable offense, so you can't resist arrest if you haven't done anything to deserve being arrested in the first place.

MattHughesRocks
06-13-2009, 12:20 AM
I think pulling her over for going 5 miles an hour over the speed limit was the first sign that the cop has control issues.He needs counseling.Jerk.

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:03 AM
Speeding is not an arrestable offense, so you can't resist arrest if you haven't done anything to deserve being arrested in the first place.

Actually it is. When you sign a ticket, you are in essence signing your own bond. If you refuse to sign then you go to the jail, get processed, and find a bonding company to get you out.

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:05 AM
And I haven't watched the video but can not come up with any scenario where I feel it would be appropriate to taser an elderly unarmed person. Too risky.

matthughesfan21
06-13-2009, 04:26 AM
I think pulling her over for going 5 miles an hour over the speed limit was the first sign that the cop has control issues.He needs counseling.Jerk.
it was actually 15 mph over

MattHughesRocks
06-13-2009, 04:38 AM
Well then she should have been killed.

it was actually 15 mph over

matthughesfan21
06-13-2009, 05:07 AM
Well then she should have been killed.im not saying it makes him anymore right, but it is a little more reasonable to get a ticket for going 15 over, especially in a construction zone

MattHughesRocks
06-13-2009, 05:17 AM
Ticket, yes.Tazed no. I love speeding btw :)


im not saying it makes him anymore right, but it is a little more reasonable to get a ticket for going 15 over, especially in a construction zone

NateR
06-13-2009, 05:32 AM
I actually just watched the video and now I'm even more convinced that this was just another case of a cop on a power trip. You could have fit two of that old lady inside of him. :huh: He had no business yelling at or tasing her. He's just a coward and a bully if you ask me.

matt hughes
06-13-2009, 09:44 AM
And what woulda happened had this lady been so hysterical, that she ran on the road and hurt herself or a bystander? people would have said, this cop didn't do his job, isn't competent ... i am not a cop, but i am sure they are trained to always expect the unexpected and act in a manner is keeps them and the people around them safe ... in the end, sure he makes him look like a horrible person, but it may be a deterrent to those next time they decide to argue with the po-po because they don't look like the "average criminal" ...


she never crosses the white line and he was between the road and her. she could not have ran "on the road and hurt herself or a bystander". so after watching the video he "acted in a manner is keeps them and the people around them safe". in Illinois you do not have to sign the ticket to make it legal. does anyone know about Texas?

TexasRN
06-13-2009, 01:01 PM
she never crosses the white line and he was between the road and her. she could not have ran "on the road and hurt herself or a bystander". so after watching the video he "acted in a manner is keeps them and the people around them safe". in Illinois you do not have to sign the ticket to make it legal. does anyone know about Texas?

It does not have to be signed to make it legal in TX. He truly could have just finished writing it out, documented that she refused to sign the ticket, followed her home if he feared for the safety of the lady or others from her driving, and then turned it in for the courts to deal with. The judge would then have the option to take her license away for failure to comply and that would have been the end of it all. But he made a different choice.


~Amy

Neezar
06-13-2009, 01:28 PM
A ticket does not have to be signed in any state for it to be legal. Speeding is a criminal offense. When you sign a ticket you are not signing an admission to guilt but you are agreeing to show up in court. Any law enforcement officer can decide to take you to jail and force you to bond out (i.e. put up a money bond ensuring you will show up in court.) Of course, if you sign the ticket then you have the option of just pleading guilty by signing the back and mailing in your fine. So, technically anyone who doesn't sign the ticket should have to go to jail and be released on bond.

And any officer who follows someone who he thinks may be a danger (i.e. allows them to continue driving) is begging for a law suit. An officer following you doesn't make you any safer on the road. :laugh:

TexasRN
06-13-2009, 01:37 PM
A ticket does not have to be signed in any state for it to be legal. Speeding is a criminal offense. When you sign a ticket you are not signing an admission to guilt but you are agreeing to show up in court. Any law enforcement officer can decide to take you to jail and force you to bond out (i.e. put up a money bond ensuring you will show up in court.) Of course, if you sign the ticket then you have the option of just pleading guilty by signing the back and mailing in your fine. So, technically anyone who doesn't sign the ticket should have to go to jail and be released on bond.

And any officer who follows someone who he thinks may be a danger (i.e. allows them to continue driving) is begging for a law suit. An officer following you doesn't make you any safer on the road. :laugh:

Don't laugh at me, Denise. :angry: :laugh: It wouldn't make her safer but he could have recorded her actions for the court later on his dashcam if she did something on that drive home. I dunno.....but he had choices other than pulling out the taser. That was my point, Ms. Poopyhead. :tongue0011:


~Amy

rearnakedchoke
06-13-2009, 02:11 PM
she never crosses the white line and he was between the road and her. she could not have ran "on the road and hurt herself or a bystander". so after watching the video he "acted in a manner is keeps them and the people around them safe". in Illinois you do not have to sign the ticket to make it legal. does anyone know about Texas?
i understand what people are saying .. it is horrible that an old lady got tased, but imo the policeman did his job, he pulled her over and she was beligerant right from the start, she even sayed "pulling over a 72 year old lady for speeding" like being that old makes you immune from the law .. she was doing 15 mph over the limit ... he asked her to sign the ticket and she refused ... i don't know that the law is, but he told her, if she doesn't sign it, she is going to get arrested ... she thought he was bluffing, and when he decided to pull her out of the car and arrest her, she realized he wasn't kidding and then asked to sign it .. i know most people would have let her sign it, but he didn't have to, by then she already didn't comply with an officer, when he told her to get away from her car, she tried to go back in her car, sorry but that is resisting arrest, if that was me i would have been tossed on the floor, knee in the back of my neck and cuff and probably tased ... and i would have deserved it .. she still resisted and he said he was going to tase her .. she DARED him ... and he still gave her chances to listen ... i really don't like seeing old ladies tased, but she got what was coming to her .. then, she lied by denying all the things and when presented with the video, she refused to talk ... LOL ...

J.B.
06-13-2009, 02:14 PM
A ticket does not have to be signed in any state for it to be legal. Speeding is a criminal offense. When you sign a ticket you are not signing an admission to guilt but you are agreeing to show up in court. Any law enforcement officer can decide to take you to jail and force you to bond out (i.e. put up a money bond ensuring you will show up in court.) Of course, if you sign the ticket then you have the option of just pleading guilty by signing the back and mailing in your fine. So, technically anyone who doesn't sign the ticket should have to go to jail and be released on bond.


Thats where I think people get upset. They don't always understand that signing the ticket does not mean they are admitting guilt. If a person is already disgruntled over the ordeal, and then they are asked to sign something, it's easy to see where people can make that mistake.

Still, speeding, especially when it's not overly excessive given the circumstances, is a minor beef. When the woman agreed to sign the ticket, he should have let her and left it at that. Honestly, the idea that the person HAS to sign it is just semantics in this day and age. I mean, obviously the whole thing is on videotape, so if she DID blow it off and not go to court or pay the fine, the evidence is all there.

MattHughesRocks
06-13-2009, 02:29 PM
Still, none of that made it ok to tase the old woman.He easily could have got her hands behind her back and cuffed her.If not, well then he has no business being a cop in the first place.


i understand what people are saying .. it is horrible that an old lady got tased, but imo the policeman did his job, he pulled her over and she was beligerant right from the start, she even sayed "pulling over a 72 year old lady for speeding" like being that old makes you immune from the law .. she was doing 15 mph over the limit ... he asked her to sign the ticket and she refused ... i don't know that the law is, but he told her, if she doesn't sign it, she is going to get arrested ... she thought he was bluffing, and when he decided to pull her out of the car and arrest her, she realized he wasn't kidding and then asked to sign it .. i know most people would have let her sign it, but he didn't have to, by then she already didn't comply with an officer, when he told her to get away from her car, she tried to go back in her car, sorry but that is resisting arrest, if that was me i would have been tossed on the floor, knee in the back of my neck and cuff and probably tased ... and i would have deserved it .. she still resisted and he said he was going to tase her .. she DARED him ... and he still gave her chances to listen ... i really don't like seeing old ladies tased, but she got what was coming to her .. then, she lied by denying all the things and when presented with the video, she refused to talk ... LOL ...

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Don't laugh at me, Denise. :angry: :laugh: It wouldn't make her safer but he could have recorded her actions for the court later on his dashcam if she did something on that drive home. I dunno.....but he had choices other than pulling out the taser. That was my point, Ms. Poopyhead. :tongue0011:


~Amy

:laugh: Sorry.

Neezar
06-13-2009, 04:32 PM
Thats where I think people get upset. They don't always understand that signing the ticket does not mean they are admitting guilt. If a person is already disgruntled over the ordeal, and then they are asked to sign something, it's easy to see where people can make that mistake.

Still, speeding, especially when it's not overly excessive given the circumstances, is a minor beef. When the woman agreed to sign the ticket, he should have let her and left it at that. Honestly, the idea that the person HAS to sign it is just semantics in this day and age. I mean, obviously the whole thing is on videotape, so if she DID blow it off and not go to court or pay the fine, the evidence is all there.

Well, that is what most states are working towards. Refusing to sign has been an aggravation for a long time now. It has been debated regularly for years and it still is. Some states have moved to not even requiring a signature to some giving you an additional charge (yes, criminal charge) for not signing. Some states really get bent out of shape over it. Illnois was one of the most notorious when I was in law enforcement. They would pull your license right there beside your car! No judge, no jury, nothing. You went to court and pled your case to get them back. You were basically guilty until proven innocent over a traffic offense.

And in some states you went to jail if you refused to sign because if you didn't, the cop had to (on his own time) go to a warrant magistrate, swear to the events, and sign the ticket in front of the magistrate. (Some states don't require being present in front of the magistrate and have a place on the back of the ticket for the officer to swear to the ticket without the extra trip.) AND if the person doesn't sign then the officer MUST show up for the court date or the judge will throw the ticket out. If the person signs then the officer don't have to be there, his sworn ticket stands unless the defendant subpoenas the officer. So, you see, when you refuse to sign a ticket, sometimes you are causing a lot more havoc than you realize. So, in some states the officer is left almost no choice.


Note: Again, I in no way condone that cop's actions. He was wrong. He handled the whole thing wrong in my opinion and should be removed from the streets. He is a menace to society. lol

NateR
06-13-2009, 05:28 PM
i understand what people are saying .. it is horrible that an old lady got tased, but imo the policeman did his job, he pulled her over and she was beligerant right from the start, she even sayed "pulling over a 72 year old lady for speeding" like being that old makes you immune from the law .. she was doing 15 mph over the limit ... he asked her to sign the ticket and she refused ... i don't know that the law is, but he told her, if she doesn't sign it, she is going to get arrested ... she thought he was bluffing, and when he decided to pull her out of the car and arrest her, she realized he wasn't kidding and then asked to sign it .. i know most people would have let her sign it, but he didn't have to, by then she already didn't comply with an officer, when he told her to get away from her car, she tried to go back in her car, sorry but that is resisting arrest, if that was me i would have been tossed on the floor, knee in the back of my neck and cuff and probably tased ... and i would have deserved it .. she still resisted and he said he was going to tase her .. she DARED him ... and he still gave her chances to listen ... i really don't like seeing old ladies tased, but she got what was coming to her .. then, she lied by denying all the things and when presented with the video, she refused to talk ... LOL ...

Um, no. It's police brutality, nothing more. She dared him to tase her so that means that he had to tase her? What are you in elementary school? The cop needs to keep his cool and be the bigger man if necessary, but just because a woman is mouthing off is not grounds for a cop to tase her. Again, I don't know how things run in Canada, but America is not a police state. His whole "Respect my authority or suffer the consequences" attitude, puts the police officer squarely in the wrong here, IMO.

Again, he had all of her information, let her go and let the courts handle it.

NateR
06-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Well, that is what most states are working towards. Refusing to sign has been an aggravation for a long time now.

You don't have to sign tickets in Illinois. I got a speeding ticket a couple weeks ago and I didn't sign crap.

TexasRN
06-13-2009, 06:57 PM
:laugh: Sorry.


It's all good. I was just pokin' fun at ya. You know I like to be obstinate.


~Amy

Llamafighter
06-13-2009, 07:01 PM
You don't have to sign tickets in Illinois. I got a speeding ticket a couple weeks ago and I didn't sign crap.
Then you've got a tasing coming to ya,Nate;)
I think this is a good time to show everyone what a taser can do to a Hughes boy and then they can imagine what a 72 yr old lady would feel.

anyone seen the vid of Mark getting zapped?

NateR
06-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Then you've got a tasing coming to ya,Nate;)
I think this is a good time to show everyone what a taser can do to a Hughes boy and then they can imagine what a 72 yr old lady would feel.

anyone seen the vid of Mark getting zapped?

Good point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8CbzCyLeN4

Both Matt and Mark have been tased (for demonstration purposes only :laugh: ), so they know what it feels like.

I think anyone claiming that this cop was in his rights to tase a 72 year old woman over a speeding ticket, should probably get tased themselves to see what it feels like and then decide if it's something that should be done to an elderly woman for a minor traffic offense.

Llamafighter
06-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Good point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8CbzCyLeN4

Both Matt and Mark have been tased (for demonstration purposes only :laugh: ), so they know what it feels like.

I think anyone claiming that this cop was in his rights to tase a 72 year old woman over a speeding ticket, should probably get tased themselves to see what it feels like and then decide if it's something that should be done to an elderly woman for a minor traffic offense.

Is that Matt calling Mark while he's being tased? :laugh:

MattHughesRocks
06-13-2009, 08:36 PM
You got a speeding ticket? What a loser.Need any tips or advice? :ninja:

You don't have to sign tickets in Illinois. I got a speeding ticket a couple weeks ago and I didn't sign crap.

VCURamFan
06-13-2009, 08:47 PM
You got a speeding ticket? What a loser.Need any tips or advice? :ninja:Michelle, I'm not sure Nate would be able to flirt his way out as easily as you can. I mean, he's not...blonde enough...:Whistle:

J.B.
06-13-2009, 09:06 PM
Well, that is what most states are working towards. Refusing to sign has been an aggravation for a long time now. It has been debated regularly for years and it still is. Some states have moved to not even requiring a signature to some giving you an additional charge (yes, criminal charge) for not signing. Some states really get bent out of shape over it. Illnois was one of the most notorious when I was in law enforcement. They would pull your license right there beside your car! No judge, no jury, nothing. You went to court and pled your case to get them back. You were basically guilty until proven innocent over a traffic offense.

And in some states you went to jail if you refused to sign because if you didn't, the cop had to (on his own time) go to a warrant magistrate, swear to the events, and sign the ticket in front of the magistrate. (Some states don't require being present in front of the magistrate and have a place on the back of the ticket for the officer to swear to the ticket without the extra trip.) AND if the person doesn't sign then the officer MUST show up for the court date or the judge will throw the ticket out. If the person signs then the officer don't have to be there, his sworn ticket stands unless the defendant subpoenas the officer. So, you see, when you refuse to sign a ticket, sometimes you are causing a lot more havoc than you realize. So, in some states the officer is left almost no choice.


Note: Again, I in no way condone that cop's actions. He was wrong. He handled the whole thing wrong in my opinion and should be removed from the streets. He is a menace to society. lol

Interesting stuff :)

I know the last time I got a ticket about 2 years ago I did not have to sign it, but I was a passenger in a friends car and we both got seatbelt tickets. :wacko:

jason2130
06-13-2009, 11:46 PM
if this was a 20 year old man who did the same thing and got tased we'd all be laughing saying "shouldnt of dared him", since its a 72 year old women everyone is all "police brutality" and "tase the officer", all i can say is she got what she deserved, next time sign your ticket, take it to court or pay your fine and you wont have to worry about getting arrested or tased, thats my opinion

J.B.
06-14-2009, 12:10 AM
she got what she deserved

A 20 year old man is COMPLETELY different than a 72 year old woman. :banghead:

Even then, if you substituted a 20 year old man for this lady, and THE SAME EXACT SCENARIO went down, I would still say the cop shot his taser too soon. However, it would not be nearly as big of a deal. YES, things like AGE and SEX are difference makers in real world situations.

rearnakedchoke
06-14-2009, 12:42 AM
Um, no. It's police brutality, nothing more. She dared him to tase her so that means that he had to tase her? What are you in elementary school? The cop needs to keep his cool and be the bigger man if necessary, but just because a woman is mouthing off is not grounds for a cop to tase her. Again, I don't know how things run in Canada, but America is not a police state. His whole "Respect my authority or suffer the consequences" attitude, puts the police officer squarely in the wrong here, IMO.

Again, he had all of her information, let her go and let the courts handle it.
um, no it is not police brutality ... he was trying to cuff her and she was pulling away ... she shoulda complied and would not have been tased, old lady got what was coming ... if he did something wrong, he would have been suspended or reprimanded in someway ... but he wasn't ...

J.B.
06-14-2009, 01:01 AM
old lady got what was coming ... if he did something wrong, he would have been suspended or reprimanded in someway ... but he wasn't ...


See, that's where you go off into the land of Oz and cease to be talking in reality. Use common sense, and not a ridiculous paper argument. Or, at the very least, do some research before making your points.

The actions of the officer are NOW being investigated, and to say he was in the right because they did not discipline him is just ridiculous. The cops that beat Rodney King got acquitted too, does that make what they did right?

To say that the "old lady got what was coming" is just callous and crude. It shows little more than your desire to assert yourself firmly on the opposite side of the argument, and not as a statement that carries any substance. Think about it. :wink:

rearnakedchoke
06-14-2009, 01:11 AM
See, that's where you go off into the land of Oz and cease to be talking in reality. Use common sense, and not a ridiculous paper argument. Or, at the very least, do some research before making your points.

The actions of the officer are NOW being investigated, and to say he was in the right because they did not discipline him is just ridiculous. The cops that beat Rodney King got acquitted too, does that make what they did right?

To say that the "old lady got what was coming" is just callous and crude. It shows little more than your desire to assert yourself firmly on the opposite side of the argument, and not as a statement that carries any substance. Think about it. :wink:
it means that his actions were appropriate for the situation ... and what is funny is that she LIED after the fact saying she never did anything wrong ... again, this is all about opinion, your opinion is he acted in an improper manner and my opinion is he acted accordingly .. so i don't know what the big deal is ... my opinion is that she didn't follow police orders and that's what happens ... your opinion is she didn't comply with orders but he was a cop on a power trip and should have treated her like a 72 year old and not tased her .. that is your opinion and it is fine ...

J.B.
06-14-2009, 01:18 AM
it means that his actions were appropriate for the situation ... and what is funny is that she LIED after the fact saying she never did anything wrong ... again, this is all about opinion, your opinion is he acted in an improper manner and my opinion is he acted accordingly .. so i don't know what the big deal is ... my opinion is that she didn't follow police orders and that's what happens ... your opinion is she didn't comply with orders but he was a cop on a power trip and should have treated her like a 72 year old and not tased her .. that is your opinion and it is fine ...


I bet that cop felt really proud of himself, thats all I can say.

MattHughesRocks
06-14-2009, 02:24 AM
I have never flirted my way out of a ticket before. I just slept with them:laugh: KIDDING! :w00t:
I've had a few ( or more) speeding tickets in my day and I always say I'm going to cry my way out of the next one but I'm always so pissed that I got pulled over in the first place. I'm no picnic to give a ticket to that's for sure :laugh:

Just pay the ticket and go to traffic school to avoid paying a higher insurance rate.
The End :)


Michelle, I'm not sure Nate would be able to flirt his way out as easily as you can. I mean, he's not...blonde enough...:Whistle:

NateR
06-14-2009, 04:52 AM
For those people who say that a 72 year old woman should be treated exactly the same as a 20 year old man, well I really hope you are never allowed in ANY position of authority. Otherwise, GOD help us.

J.B.
06-14-2009, 07:22 AM
I have never flirted my way out of a ticket before. I just slept with them:laugh: KIDDING! :w00t:


:laugh:

J.B.
06-14-2009, 07:24 AM
Otherwise, GOD help us.

God help our Great Grandmothers! :scared0011:


:laugh:

Neezar
06-14-2009, 03:33 PM
I have never flirted my way out of a ticket before. I just slept with them:laugh: KIDDING! :w00t:
I've had a few ( or more) speeding tickets in my day and I always say I'm going to cry my way out of the next one but I'm always so pissed that I got pulled over in the first place. I'm no picnic to give a ticket to that's for sure :laugh:

Just pay the ticket and go to traffic school to avoid paying a higher insurance rate.
The End :)

I got a speeding ticket when I was 19 but the officer wrote that I was doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. He had written it backwards. So I showed up for court, pointed it out to the court clerk who took it up to the judge. The judge embarrassed the cop a little and sent me on my way. A couple of weeks later, I got another one and the cop marked male instead of female so off I went again. Same judge. He said that if the officer couldn't see that I was a female then he certainly had no way of seeing me speeding. :laugh: No kidding, a couple of weeks later I show up in the same judge's court. He notices me in the back and calls me on up. He said, "Surely your luck has run out." And I said, "Well, I have a ticket here but I'm not sure what for as the officer didn't mark what I did wrong." He told me that if I showed up again he would find something to charge me with. I never went back. :laugh:

MattHughesRocks
06-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Wow Denise that's incredible! :laugh: :laugh: :happy0198:

I got a speeding ticket when I was 19 but the officer wrote that I was doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. He had written it backwards. So I showed up for court, pointed it out to the court clerk who took it up to the judge. The judge embarrassed the cop a little and sent me on my way. A couple of weeks later, I got another one and the cop marked male instead of female so off I went again. Same judge. He said that if the officer couldn't see that I was a female then he certainly had no way of seeing me speeding. :laugh: No kidding, a couple of weeks later I show up in the same judge's court. He notices me in the back and calls me on up. He said, "Surely your luck has run out." And I said, "Well, I have a ticket here but I'm not sure what for as the officer didn't mark what I did wrong." He told me that if I showed up again he would find something to charge me with. I never went back. :laugh:

matthughesfan21
06-14-2009, 04:34 PM
I got a speeding ticket when I was 19 but the officer wrote that I was doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. He had written it backwards. So I showed up for court, pointed it out to the court clerk who took it up to the judge. The judge embarrassed the cop a little and sent me on my way. A couple of weeks later, I got another one and the cop marked male instead of female so off I went again. Same judge. He said that if the officer couldn't see that I was a female then he certainly had no way of seeing me speeding. :laugh: No kidding, a couple of weeks later I show up in the same judge's court. He notices me in the back and calls me on up. He said, "Surely your luck has run out." And I said, "Well, I have a ticket here but I'm not sure what for as the officer didn't mark what I did wrong." He told me that if I showed up again he would find something to charge me with. I never went back. :laugh:haha, good for you, but where the hell did they get their cops from...Can't even do the basics:laugh:

MattHughesRocks
06-14-2009, 04:38 PM
At least they didnt taze her :laugh:


haha, good for you, but where the hell did they get their cops from...Can't even do the basics:laugh:

VCURamFan
06-14-2009, 06:34 PM
I got a speeding ticket when I was 19 but the officer wrote that I was doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. He had written it backwards. So I showed up for court, pointed it out to the court clerk who took it up to the judge. The judge embarrassed the cop a little and sent me on my way. A couple of weeks later, I got another one and the cop marked male instead of female so off I went again. Same judge. He said that if the officer couldn't see that I was a female then he certainly had no way of seeing me speeding. :laugh: No kidding, a couple of weeks later I show up in the same judge's court. He notices me in the back and calls me on up. He said, "Surely your luck has run out." And I said, "Well, I have a ticket here but I'm not sure what for as the officer didn't mark what I did wrong." He told me that if I showed up again he would find something to charge me with. I never went back. :laugh:That's hilarious!:laugh:

Neezar
06-14-2009, 06:56 PM
At least they didnt taze her :laugh:

:laugh:

On one of them I did try the crying trick though. :ninja: Didn't work worth a damn as far as him not writing the ticket but I could clearly see that he was flustered. Maybe that is why he messed up on the ticket. :laugh:

Hughes_GOAT
06-14-2009, 09:05 PM
this isn't as bad as a pregnant woman getting tazed. that's happened too. if you want out of your ticket,just call the police station to find out when the cop who cited you is off and then reschedule it the court date to be on their day off. they almost never show.

jason2130
06-15-2009, 02:06 AM
For those people who say that a 72 year old woman should be treated exactly the same as a 20 year old man, well I really hope you are never allowed in ANY position of authority. Otherwise, GOD help us.

i was under the impression that everyone is the same under the law? atleast that what the theory is suppose to be, regardless of race/sex/age/income

and for the record il be starting the academy later this year to become a police officer, so tell your grandmothers to sign her ticket the first time and i wont have to bust out my taser :frantics:

NateR
06-15-2009, 02:10 AM
i was under the impression that everyone is the same under the law? atleast that what the theory is suppose to be, regardless of race/sex/age/income

and for the record il be starting the academy later this year to become a police officer, so tell your grandmothers to sign her ticket the first time and i wont have to bust out my taser :frantics:

Well, if that's your attitude and you are planning to be a police officer, then I thank GOD than both of my grandmothers are dead and a power-mad asshole like you can't get anywhere near them.:angry:

VCURamFan
06-15-2009, 02:15 AM
Well, if that's your attitude and you are planning to be a police officer, then I thank GOD than both of my grandmothers are dead and a power-mad asshole like you can't get anywhere near them.:angry:Ummm, Nate...I think that was sarcasm...:unsure-1:

NateR
06-15-2009, 02:21 AM
Ummm, Nate...I think that was sarcasm...:unsure-1:

Still in bad taste regardless. With an attitude like that, he's going to be a pretty ****ty cop.

J.B.
06-15-2009, 02:59 AM
i was under the impression that everyone is the same under the law? atleast that what the theory is suppose to be, regardless of race/sex/age/income

and for the record il be starting the academy later this year to become a police officer, so tell your grandmothers to sign her ticket the first time and i wont have to bust out my taser :frantics:

We are all the same under the law, nobody is arguing that.

Still, police have to use rational judgments when using force. Like Matt said, that cop acted out of anger, not out of a real fear for his safety. I just hope that if you become an officer, you learn to use rational judgment and not just act like the Robocop of the traffic division.

jason2130
06-15-2009, 03:04 AM
Still in bad taste regardless. With an attitude like that, he's going to be a pretty ****ty cop.

well im not really sure how to respond to that, i dont really feel like name calling because we disagree a lady should/should'nt of been tased, and the fact you know nothing else about me other than i think someone who resisted arrest got tased was "ok by me" and i guess for future post i wont try to include sarcasm/humor anymore because its a sign of bad attitude :huh:

Llamafighter
06-15-2009, 03:04 AM
Well, if that's your attitude and you are planning to be a police officer, then I thank GOD than both of my grandmothers are dead and a power-mad ******* like you can't get anywhere near them.:angry:
:laugh: :laugh: I think it's time to check the MHF censor again :laugh:

jason2130
06-15-2009, 03:12 AM
We are all the same under the law, nobody is arguing that.

Still, police have to use rational judgments when using force. Like Matt said, that cop acted out of anger, not out of a real fear for his safety. I just hope that if you become an officer, you learn to use rational judgment and not just act like the Robocop of the traffic division.

i agree completely with rational judgement in the situation, and i dont know what the cop was thinking, all i know from what i read is he made the threat to arrest, he then proceeded to arrest, and she resisted then tased

should he have arrested her for not signing a ticket, i dont know, i have no idea what the law is for that in his state
but should she have resisted arrest once she was told shes under arrest, no

at this point i hope i never have to arrest a 72 year old anything who resisting arrest, its seems lose lose for the officer in the publics eye

que
06-15-2009, 03:13 AM
as long as it's not my grandmother i would happily taze any 72 year old woman who dared me to taze her, if she deserved it. there's nothing more rude than a senile

MattHughesRocks
06-15-2009, 03:14 AM
Anyone applying for a job in law enforcement has to go through a lot of psychological testing.It's far from perfect but it does weed out a lot of total power tripping morons who think it's ok to taze a 72 year old person. Unfortunately some still make it through.All we can do is hope for our future :)

NateR
06-15-2009, 03:20 AM
well im not really sure how to respond to that, i dont really feel like name calling because we disagree a lady should/should'nt of been tased, and the fact you know nothing else about me other than i think someone who resisted arrest got tased was "ok by me" and i guess for future post i wont try to include sarcasm/humor anymore because its a sign of bad attitude :huh:

A police officer's duty is to "serve and protect" show me how tasing that woman fit into either category. If you can't understand why it's wrong, then I don't think you have any business working in law enforcement.

Adia
06-15-2009, 03:30 AM
wow. It says a lot about a big burly police officer if he has to break out the taser to subdue a big huge threat like....grandma?

And here I thought her knitting needles were to spin us all warm mittens at Christmas. My eyes have been opened to the clear and present danger right there in my livingroom. Grannies of the world are just ticking time bombs, ready to unleash an armageddon upon us young'uns.

ok, sarcasm button switched off....

Where I'm from, the use of Tazers is highly controversial, as too many power hungry police officers have used excessive force, subdued the accused, then went in for the zap. Then, a few too many were killed (including a few who were mentally imbalanced) and voila, you have abuse of a deadly weapon. I'm reminded of the moron that zapped a kid after his parents gave permission for him to do so...

There is a special place in hell for half witted cops that tase children, animals and grannies... :D

J.B.
06-15-2009, 03:41 AM
i agree completely with rational judgement in the situation, and i dont know what the cop was thinking, all i know from what i read is he made the threat to arrest, he then proceeded to arrest, and she resisted then tased

should he have arrested her for not signing a ticket, i dont know, i have no idea what the law is for that in his state
but should she have resisted arrest once she was told shes under arrest, no

at this point i hope i never have to arrest a 72 year old anything who resisting arrest, its seems lose lose for the officer in the publics eye

You need to understand that there are SO MANY laws in existence that you cannot default to the "it's the law" argument. It's about judging what is happening IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. Not what a piece of paper in city hall, or some state building always says. She barely did anything, and she did not even really walk away from him and he already tased her.

Of course we have laws for a reason, but there are different levels of severity in each situation. No two crimes are ever exactly the same, and all those things need to be taken into consideration. That is why cops are NOT judges, even though a lot of them act like they are. Judges take those things into consideration. If a judge has to look at this videotape and decide if what the officer did was within reason, you better believe that the fact this is a 72 year old small woman is going to be a mitigating factor.

It's not lose/lose if the guy would have just simply restrained her, and NOT been a total dick. Maybe if he had not been a dick in the first place, the old lady would not have been such a pain in the ass. I have watched that video numerous times now, and showed it to some friends, and we all agree that the cop has obvious case of "small-town-itus". He's got nothing better to do that write speeding tickets, so he takes it out on the people he pulls over. I see it all the time in small towns around here, and places I have been all over country.

Crisco
06-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Speeding is not an arrestable offense, so you can't resist arrest if you haven't done anything to deserve being arrested in the first place.

By refusing to sign the ticket she was then placed under arrest where she proceeded to resist. So no speeding doesn't get you arrested unless your being reckless however, in that state refusing to sign a ticket is an arresting offense so she did infact resist arrest.

That being said I would prefer this cop had a taser because if he didn't he might have just shot her :ninja:

VCURamFan
06-15-2009, 12:39 PM
By refusing to sign the ticket she was then placed under arrest where she proceeded to resist. So no speeding doesn't get you arrested unless your being reckless however, in that state refusing to sign a ticket is an arresting offense so she did infact resist arrest.

That being said I would prefer this cop had a taser because if he didn't he might have just shot her :ninja:Maybe next time they should just give him a Super Soaker...














...except he might fill it with acid.:ninja:

Crisco
06-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Maybe next time they should just give him a Super Soaker...





Or hand them a a plugged in toaster and then shoots them to recieve the same effect as a taser.








...except he might fill it with acid.:ninja:

Or hand them a a plugged in toaster and then shoots them to recieve the same effect as a taser.

Bonnie
06-15-2009, 02:43 PM
I bet a lot of you have seen that clip of the trooper who stopped that guy who was absolutely irate that he was getting a ticket. They've shown it quite a few times the last few years on some of the "funny" stories about troopers and cops. Anyway, the guy's voice sounds like a high-pitched shrew's as he's obviously cussing ('cause they "bleep" him a lot in the clip :laugh: ) at the trooper and then he tears his ticket up and throws it out the window towards the trooper. The trooper could have lost his cool at that point or even before that point, but he didn't. He remained calm and cool and simply told the man that if he didn't get out and pick it up, he was gonna ticket him for littering also. The man got out and picked up his torn-up ticket, but he still wasn't a happy camper. :laugh:

Anyway, I bring this particular story up because I really admired that trooper for not letting the man's tirade get to him especially when the man tore his ticket up and threw it out the window at him. I think they should show that in training classes for law enforcement. That trooper gets an A+ in my book. :cool:

They might have this on YOUTUBE for anyone who hasn't seen it on tv. I'm not sure how you would find it though--maybe "trooper keeps cool with irate driver?".

matt hughes
06-18-2009, 03:29 AM
i was under the impression that everyone is the same under the law? atleast that what the theory is suppose to be, regardless of race/sex/age/income

and for the record il be starting the academy later this year to become a police officer, so tell your grandmothers to sign her ticket the first time and i wont have to bust out my taser :frantics:

i have been away from the internet for a few days so sorry to bring this up days later.

what if it was a 9 year old boy riding his bike in the street. instead of speeding he ran a stop sign. after the cop pulls him over the 9 year old gives him as much crap as the 72 year old did. question: does the cop pull his taser and shoot?

MattHughesRocks
06-18-2009, 03:33 AM
I'd spank him :laugh:


what if it was a 9 year old boy riding his bike in the street. instead of speeding he ran a stop sign. after the cop pulls him over the 9 year old gives him as much crap as the 72 year old did. question: does the cop pull his taser and shoot?

County Mike
06-18-2009, 10:57 AM
I think the 9 year old could be physically restrained, if necessary, without as much risk of hurting him.

To me, this situation came down to where the cop had to arrest the woman. He could physically restrain her and risk breaking her bones or he could tase her. I'm guessing the tasing was actually less risky in this case. It's hard to say without being there or even seeing a video of the incident. I don't blame the officer for doing his job.

If she was already restrained in cuffs and then he tazed her, I'd have a problem with that.

J.B.
06-18-2009, 05:19 PM
I think the 9 year old could be physically restrained, if necessary, without as much risk of hurting him.

To me, this situation came down to where the cop had to arrest the woman. He could physically restrain her and risk breaking her bones or he could tase her. I'm guessing the tasing was actually less risky in this case. It's hard to say without being there or even seeing a video of the incident. I don't blame the officer for doing his job.

If she was already restrained in cuffs and then he tazed her, I'd have a problem with that.

A 9 year old can be a lot scrappier than a little old lady! :laugh:

Did you not see the video of this? It is in the OP.

My view is that the taser is actually MORE dangerous. Tasers can kill people, so not only is that a possibility, but when he shoots her with the taser, she takes a flop to the ground that reminded me of Nate Quarry getting blasted by Rich Franklin. A broken bone is better than dead, and she still could have broken a bone in the fall anyway. That cop was a giant ogre compared to her, he could have bear hugged the lady until she calmed down and we probably would not even be talking about it.

Taser was a bad idea in this case.

County Mike
06-18-2009, 06:21 PM
I didn't see the video, can't watch them from work. That was the only reason I could think of where a taser would be better than wrestling with the old bag.

jason2130
06-18-2009, 06:26 PM
i have been away from the internet for a few days so sorry to bring this up days later.

what if it was a 9 year old boy riding his bike in the street. instead of speeding he ran a stop sign. after the cop pulls him over the 9 year old gives him as much crap as the 72 year old did. question: does the cop pull his taser and shoot?

theres a few major differences first hes a minor (can you get a ticket for running a stop sign on a bike? i dont think i ever stopped for one when i was growing up) as a minor he can get away with more, i think he is prolly gonna have to physically attack the officer or have some illegal item in hand to even get arrested, so i dont think it would ever come down to the 9 year old resisting arrest

second 9 year old boys are a lil more resilent than a 72 year old lady, if the boy does need arrested and he does resist, its a lil more safer putting a 9 year old to the ground while you put handcuffs on him vs a 72 year old women, now yes the taser does shock your system and can be dangerous but its still less impact overall i think then trying to get a old ladies hands behind her back without breaking, pulling, or dislocating something, once she got tased and collapsed there was no real struggle she got arrested and went to jail with no injuries

third is the age, someone who is 72 should know speeding results in a ticket, you get a ticket, you sign it, if you want to fight it you show up on the court day, you also should know that if a officer tells you hes gonna place you under arrest if you continue to do something you should probally stop doing it (if you think the officer is wrong in telling you this file a complaint), and once you are told your under arrest you are probally goin to have handcuffs on at which point you can argue til your blue in the face in the courtroom in the near future

overall in this situation i think i would have handled it differently than this officer did, however he acted according to his training and in the guidlines he is given, i also find it funny though that the only reason we even know of this story is because the 72 year old lady didnt know she was filmed and tried to make a big deal out of it, once the video got released we havent heard anything else from her which makes me suspect she knows she was in the wrong

matt hughes
06-18-2009, 09:21 PM
i was under the impression that everyone is the same under the law? atleast that what the theory is suppose to be, regardless of race/sex/age/income

you need to reread what you posted earlier on this topic. like you said regardless of race/sex/age/income. now you are backtracking and trying to put it on him being a minor.
yes, blowing through a stop light on a bike is the same as doing it with a car. and where you think that a 9 year old can't resist arrest is a little silly. are you now saying age does have something to do with it?

J.B.
06-18-2009, 10:12 PM
second 9 year old boys are a lil more resilent than a 72 year old lady, if the boy does need arrested and he does resist, its a lil more safer putting a 9 year old to the ground while you put handcuffs on him vs a 72 year old women, now yes the taser does shock your system and can be dangerous but its still less impact overall i think then trying to get a old ladies hands behind her back without breaking, pulling, or dislocating something, once she got tased and collapsed there was no real struggle she got arrested and went to jail with no injuries


Matt is right, you cannot say in one breath that age makes no difference, and then try to make an argument for how it IS different for a nine year old boy. That argument flies about as far as I would jumping off a cliff and flapping my arms.

Plus, the argument that somehow shooting this lady with a taser is SAFER than grabbing her is the most ridiculous argument of all. Tasers can KILL people, plain and simple. Not to mention, that it's not like somebody is there to catch you when they stun you. You FALL down on the ground, which can also result in serious injury. You are basically saying, let's not grab her because she is old and her bones might be brittle, so lets shoot her with taser gun instead. :rolleyes:

MattHughesRocks
06-18-2009, 10:42 PM
I say we find Jason and taze him! :w00t:

J.B.
06-18-2009, 10:59 PM
I say we find Jason and taze him! :w00t:

No need.

If he is going to be a cop, and I am not mistaken, then he will get shot with the taser gun before they allow him to carry one. :laugh:

medic92
06-18-2009, 10:59 PM
Aside from pulling a gun on the cop or trying to stab him or something like that, I see no good reason for him to have tased that woman. I'm sure he could have tackled her down and handcuffed her if it came right down to it.

I see it as sending a message. This woman was a royal crab and acted like she didn't have to obey a lawful command and then got snotty and dared the guy to do something about it.

The elderly often seem to think they get some sort of pass just because they're old. They act just like this woman, being complete idiots and then when they suffer the same consequences as someone younger, they suddenly get all frail and shaky, wondering how someone could have done something like that to a poor old great grandmother.

As a former paramedic who had a LOT of dealings with the elderly, the hag got exactly what she deserved and I'm STILL laughing about it. The fact that she then lied through her dentures about it makes it even more funny.

And if you think the elderly are weak, you obviously never tried to get one to go somewhere they didn't want to go.

J.B.
06-18-2009, 11:01 PM
I see it as sending a message. This woman was a royal crab and acted like she didn't have to obey a lawful command and then got snotty and dared the guy to do something about it.

The elderly often seem to think they get some sort of pass just because they're old. They act just like this woman, being complete idiots and then when they suffer the same consequences as someone younger, they suddenly get all frail and shaky, wondering how someone could have done something like that to a poor old great grandmother.

As a former paramedic who had a LOT of dealings with the elderly, the hag got exactly what she deserved and I'm STILL laughing about it. The fact that she then lied through her dentures about it makes it even more funny.

And if you think the elderly are weak, you obviously never tried to get one to go somewhere they didn't want to go.


Wow...just wow....

Really classy. :wink:

NateR
06-18-2009, 11:03 PM
As a former paramedic who had a LOT of dealings with the elderly, the hag got exactly what she deserved and I'm STILL laughing about it.

I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that people like you and Jason2130 are out there to lend aid to people during emergencies. :blink:

NateR
06-18-2009, 11:04 PM
Wow...just wow....

Really classy. :wink:

I know, what a dirtbag (just in case my previous post was too subtle).

J.B.
06-18-2009, 11:05 PM
I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that people like you and Jason2130 are out there to lend aid to people during emergencies. :blink:

or not...:ninja:

J.B.
06-18-2009, 11:06 PM
I know, what a dirtbag (just in case my previous post was too subtle).

Naw... you're good, as usual...:laugh:

medic92
06-18-2009, 11:22 PM
I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that people like you and Jason2130 are out there to lend aid to people during emergencies. :blink:

Personal feelings never got in the way of my treating a patient. That's how I was able to treat drunks that hurt and killed others, rapists, child molesters and vicious elderly people.

Once again it's amazing how lax the enforcement of rules becomes when you disagree with the person being attacked. That's the difference between you and me. I can separate the personal feelings from the job and still be effective. You can't.

medic92
06-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Furthermore, whether the person is elderly or young, I always get a kick out of seeing justice served. It's just made a little sweeter when the justice is served to a lying mouthy old hag who richly deserved it.

MattHughesRocks
06-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Yes, 9 and 72 year olds should be tased just the same.Keep your feeling in check people :laugh:

J.B.
06-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Furthermore, whether the person is elderly or young, I always get a kick out of seeing justice served. It's just made a little sweeter when the justice is served to a lying mouthy old hag who richly deserved it.

Justice WILL be served my friend...I just hope that in the end your soul falls on the right side of the judgment. :)

medic92
06-18-2009, 11:31 PM
Yes, 9 and 72 year olds should be tased just the same.Keep your feeling in check people :laugh:

Never said anything about 9 year-olds. I just don't think being 72 gives you the right to be a royal bitch, ignore a lawful order from a police officer and not suffer any consequences for the choices you make. The fact that she lied about it to the media and pretended she was just a poor sweet little old grandmother who was attacked by the police made it even funnier.

medic92
06-18-2009, 11:32 PM
Justice WILL be served my friend...I just hope that in the end your soul falls on the right side of the judgment. :)

No worries there Mr. Rattlesnake, my soul was saved a long time ago and I know my place is reserved in heaven. :)

jason2130
06-18-2009, 11:55 PM
you need to reread what you posted earlier on this topic. like you said regardless of race/sex/age/income. now you are backtracking and trying to put it on him being a minor.
yes, blowing through a stop light on a bike is the same as doing it with a car. and where you think that a 9 year old can't resist arrest is a little silly. are you now saying age does have something to do with it?

i walked right into that one, im willing to bet you already had the response with that quote from my previous post already typed out :laugh:

im not backtracking at all, it was in response to a 20 year old male and a 72 year old comparison doin the exact same thing in the exact same situation with the exact same results and people wouldnt care at all, at that point no mention of minors where even brought up anywhere in this post, most anything to do with minors is different than adult from punishments, court proceedings and the arresting procedures

as for a 9 year old not being able to resist arrest, they can, all i was saying is the likelyhood of a 9 year old getting arrested for riding a bicycle through a stop sign is next to none, at worst the cop might take him home to his parents, (in your first post it was a stop sign not a stop light, not that its that big of difference but when i think of a stop sign i think of alot less traffic in a neighborhood, as oppose to a stop light on a main road/intersection, not that it really matters)

but im done here, i respect your different opinions on the matter, we can argue this til the cows come home and fact is i wont change your opinion, and if your only strategy is to try and find things in my other post to pick apart, or to make responses about the kind of person i must be you definatly arent gonna change mine

i would like to add that i applaud you all for not points out my lack of grammar and horrible spelling though :)

J.B.
06-19-2009, 12:06 AM
No worries there Mr. Rattlesnake, my soul was saved a long time ago and I know my place is reserved in heaven. :)

I hope so, and I also hope that you don't think I am being overly sarcastic in my remarks.

However, I really don't see where you need to be so hateful in your comments about what happened. That lady HAS talked since the video has come out, and they are supposedly investigating the incident. She may have been being a pain in the ass, but that don't meant the cop did the right thing. Also, it's my opinion that the cop was out of line to begin with, and that only contributed to her reaction.

Maybe you have had to deal with some people that were unruly in your past profession, but that don't justify the actions of THIS situation in my opinion.

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 12:46 AM
My Mom is 75.Trust me, I've felt like tazing her many times.It just isn't right though...no matter what :laugh:



Never said anything about 9 year-olds. I just don't think being 72 gives you the right to be a royal bitch, ignore a lawful order from a police officer and not suffer any consequences for the choices you make. The fact that she lied about it to the media and pretended she was just a poor sweet little old grandmother who was attacked by the police made it even funnier.

J.B.
06-19-2009, 12:49 AM
My Mom is 75.Trust me, I've felt like tazing her many times

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/imagesnot-20listening-thumb.jpg

Mac
06-19-2009, 01:45 AM
I see it as sending a message. This woman was a royal crab and acted like she didn't have to obey a lawful command and then got snotty and dared the guy to do something about it.

The elderly often seem to think they get some sort of pass just because they're old. They act just like this woman, being complete idiots and then when they suffer the same consequences as someone younger, they suddenly get all frail and shaky, wondering how someone could have done something like that to a poor old great grandmother.

As a former paramedic who had a LOT of dealings with the elderly, the hag got exactly what she deserved and I'm STILL laughing about it. The fact that she then lied through her dentures about it makes it even more funny.

And if you think the elderly are weak, you obviously never tried to get one to go somewhere they didn't want to go.



You are an idiot through and through . Im not going to try and quote every retarded thing youve posted , Id just have to quote pretty much every post since youve signed up . But to be honest , these latest ones take the cake .

Man and you are on the highways with other folks .What a fricken retard.

Mac
06-19-2009, 01:47 AM
I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that people like you and Jason2130 are out there to lend aid to people during emergencies. :blink:


Yeah , this douce bag reminds me of a few of the paramedics here in town . I use to over here them talking about gruesome crashes they came upon and described the dismembered bodies as " Cool " . I figure medic is the same calibur .

matthughesfan21
06-19-2009, 02:01 AM
theres a few major differences first hes a minor (can you get a ticket for running a stop sign on a bike? i dont think i ever stopped for one when i was growing up) as a minor he can get away with more, i think he is prolly gonna have to physically attack the officer or have some illegal item in hand to even get arrested, so i dont think it would ever come down to the 9 year old resisting arrest

second 9 year old boys are a lil more resilent than a 72 year old lady, if the boy does need arrested and he does resist, its a lil more safer putting a 9 year old to the ground while you put handcuffs on him vs a 72 year old women, now yes the taser does shock your system and can be dangerous but its still less impact overall i think then trying to get a old ladies hands behind her back without breaking, pulling, or dislocating something, once she got tased and collapsed there was no real struggle she got arrested and went to jail with no injuries

third is the age, someone who is 72 should know speeding results in a ticket, you get a ticket, you sign it, if you want to fight it you show up on the court day, you also should know that if a officer tells you hes gonna place you under arrest if you continue to do something you should probally stop doing it (if you think the officer is wrong in telling you this file a complaint), and once you are told your under arrest you are probally goin to have handcuffs on at which point you can argue til your blue in the face in the courtroom in the near future

overall in this situation i think i would have handled it differently than this officer did, however he acted according to his training and in the guidlines he is given, i also find it funny though that the only reason we even know of this story is because the 72 year old lady didnt know she was filmed and tried to make a big deal out of it, once the video got released we havent heard anything else from her which makes me suspect she knows she was in the wrong
here's the thing though, sure throwing her to the ground could injure her, but with her age, and taser can cause heart failure(not likely with most people, but the elderly are much different), and secondly, I believe a 200lb officer could restrain a 72 year old woman reasonably without throwing her to the ground and cuffing her

VCURamFan
06-19-2009, 02:32 AM
I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that people like you and Jason2130 are out there to lend aid to people during emergencies. :blink:If it makes you feel any better, Nate, I've applied to be a Sheriff's deputy. :Whistle:

Chuck
06-19-2009, 04:52 AM
I see it as sending a message. This woman was a royal crab and acted like she didn't have to obey a lawful command and then got snotty and dared the guy to do something about it.

The elderly often seem to think they get some sort of pass just because they're old. They act just like this woman, being complete idiots and then when they suffer the same consequences as someone younger, they suddenly get all frail and shaky, wondering how someone could have done something like that to a poor old great grandmother.

As a former paramedic who had a LOT of dealings with the elderly, the hag got exactly what she deserved and I'm STILL laughing about it. The fact that she then lied through her dentures about it makes it even more funny.

And if you think the elderly are weak, you obviously never tried to get one to go somewhere they didn't want to go.
THANK YOU!!!

The cop was right... the lady was wrong and got not only what she asked for... but what she deserved.

He used the approptiate amount of force to end the situation without any harm coming to anybody. The recovery from a Taser is almost instant... recovering from a broken/fractured bone or bruise from him forcing her to the ground is not.

Had he wrestled her to the ground or ended the situation using force of any other kind you would all be complaining about that.

What ever happened to respecting authority???? :blink:

Chuck
06-19-2009, 04:59 AM
A police officer's duty is to "serve and protect" show me how tasing that woman fit into either category. If you can't understand why it's wrong, then I don't think you have any business working in law enforcement.

To "serve and protect" is a slogan on the side of a cop car... not an officers duty.

Their duty is to enforce the law... justice needs to be blind and not subjective to things like age or gender or other bias...

NateR
06-19-2009, 05:00 AM
What ever happened to respecting authority???? :blink:

It went out the door right after people forgot about respecting their elders.

Chuck
06-19-2009, 05:03 AM
It went out the door right after people forgot about respecting their elders.

That actually made me laugh a little...

Do you find her attitude even the slightest bit troubling?

NateR
06-19-2009, 05:04 AM
To "serve and protect" is a slogan on the side of a cop car... not an officers duty.

Their duty is to enforce the law... justice needs to be blind and not subjective to things like age or gender or other bias...

Enforce the law with common sense and compassion, not with bullying and sadism. That cop was totally out of line.

When I read people claim that they laugh as a 72 year old woman screams in pain while she's being tased, I just have to wonder what kind of sick filth do we have serving in our law enforcement and medical field?

Chuck
06-19-2009, 05:07 AM
Enforce the law with common sense and compassion, not with bullying and sadism. That cop was totally out of line.

When I read people claim that they laugh as a 72 year old woman screams in pain while she's being tased, I just have to wonder what kind of sick filth do we have serving in our law enforcement and medical field?

I agree... but I think he used both common sense and compassion...


What would you have done?

NateR
06-19-2009, 05:08 AM
That actually made me laugh a little...

Do you find her attitude even the slightest bit troubling?

Yes, but the cop was clearly on a power trip and completely out of line. If she refused to sign the ticket, he should have just let her go, reported it, and had a police car waiting for her at her home with a warrant for her arrest. Easy as that, no need to handcuff her, tase her, or wrestle her to the ground. But that would have required intelligence, maturity and a slow temper. Character traits that I doubt that police officer has ever even heard of.

NateR
06-19-2009, 05:10 AM
but I think he used both common sense and compassion...

Seriously? :blink: So screaming in her ear was the compassionate way to speak to her?

Read my previous post for what I would have done.

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 05:15 AM
Chuck, I don't like you in this thread.Get out! :angry:

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 05:16 AM
Chuck...he could have very easily got her hands behind her back and cuffed her...then punched her.Duh.

I agree... but I think he used both common sense and compassion...


What would you have done?

Chuck
06-19-2009, 05:23 AM
Yes, but the cop was clearly on a power trip and completely out of line. If she refused to sign the ticket, he should have just let her go, reported it, and had a police car waiting for her at her home with a warrant for her arrest. Easy as that, no need to handcuff her, tase her, or wrestle her to the ground. But that would have required intelligence, maturity and a slow temper. Character traits that I doubt that police officer has ever even heard of.

I think you're misunderstanding his actions and reading a little too much into his behavior.

Let's say you were the cop.... let her go? That's not an option. Too much liability. She broke a law and the officer was required to take her into custody. It's not a judgement call. He's required. If he didn't and let her go then the city/county/state could be held liable if she got in a wreck, commited a crime etc...

BUT... let's say he does let her go... Do you really think with her attitude she would have gone peacefully into custody at her house? Doubtful. At some point there would be a confrontation... What if she refused to come out of her house? Call in SWAT? Fire tear gas?? The whole situation could just escalate... a police officers job is to DE-escalate a situation as soon as possible.

The last part of your post is the most troubling though Nate... you know absolutely nothing about this officer. His record on the force, morals, values.. you see a 60 second snapshot of his life and instantly judge him. Assume he couldn't possibly be intelligent or have maturity? We can disagree with his actions but I think it's a little harsh to launch attacks on his character because of a very, very brief snapshot of his actions.

What makes you think he was angry or on a power trip?

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 05:29 AM
But there were other options.It wasn't tase her or let her go.That's what the problem is.Yes she was out of line but he crossed the line to get control of that hateful old old lady.That's where common sence comes in and obviously that police officer didn't use any at all and to be an officer it should be a requirement.

VCURamFan
06-19-2009, 05:32 AM
What ever happened to respecting authority???? :blink: http://www.poster.net/south-park/south-park-you-will-respect-my-authority-3700212.jpg

Chuck
06-19-2009, 05:33 AM
But there were other options.It wasn't tase her or let her go.That's what the problem is.Yes she was out of line but he crossed the line to get control of that hateful old old lady.That's where common sence comes in and obviously that police officer didn't use any at all and to be an officer it should be a requirement.

What other options?

What's "the line" that he crossed anyway?

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 05:38 AM
Ummmm...he tased a 72 year old woman risking a hell of a lot when he could have easily cuffed her.Duh Chuck:unsure-1: .
But don't argue with me , I'm going to bed and won't be here to tell you how wrong you are anymore tonight :laugh:


What other options?

What's "the line" that he crossed anyway?

Chuck
06-19-2009, 05:40 AM
Ummmm...he tased a 72 year old woman risking a hell of a lot when he could have easily cuffed her.Duh Chuck:unsure-1: .
But don't argue with me , I'm going to bed and won't be here to tell you how wrong you are anymore tonight :laugh:
Yes ma'am.

But... :D I think if "easily" cuffing her were an option he would have done it.

Now go to bed!

J.B.
06-19-2009, 06:38 AM
Chuck, bro, I love ya :)

He had NO business arresting this woman. She could have signed that ticket and been on her way. Just another case of a cop on a power trip if you ask me.

Mac
06-19-2009, 11:48 AM
Chuck, bro, I love ya :)

He had NO business arresting this woman. She could have signed that ticket and been on her way. Just another case of a cop on a power trip if you ask me.


Exactly , To many people anymore see that bright and shiny badge and think that whoever is wearing it can do no wrong. It is absolutley rediculous. Chuck is just being an idiot to .

matt hughes
06-19-2009, 02:10 PM
What other options?

What's "the line" that he crossed anyway?


you ask "what other options?" you need to go back and read the other posts for one, but are you trying to say thats all he could do? i would hope that i would have let her go. in Illinois you do not have to sign the ticket, but i do not know about Texas.

the "line he crossed" would have been when he pulled his taser.

MattHughesRocks
06-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Where I come from Mac, nobody thinks that :laugh:

Exactly , To many people anymore see that bright and shiny badge and think that whoever is wearing it can do no wrong. It is absolutley rediculous. Chuck is just being an idiot to .

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 04:30 PM
This is still going? I am with Chuck on this one still ... from the get go she was being a brat saying "Pulling over a 72 year old" .. she was doing 15 over and it doesn't matter how old you are speeding is speeding .. ok, so no one is disputing that ... but when he gives her the ticket, he asks her to sign it ... she refuses ... he asks her to sign it or she will be arrested and she still refuses ... now most people here say that he should have let her go at that point ... but myself and a few others think otherwise ... imo justice is blind and it shouldn't matter what colour, gender age you are ... she should have signed it .. when he asks her to step out of the car, his mind was made up that he was going to arrest her ... that is when she says she would sign it ... again, some of you would have said, ok sign it and get out of here ... he didn't have to he is not supposed to discriminate, so had it been me or some other "younger" person, possibly a male, we would have been tased without notice .. .she was told to stop fighting him and she kept pulling away ... that is resisting arrest, sorry, he had every right to tase her and she was given plenty of warning .. again, this is opinion as stated early in the thread, no one is right or wrong ... had he done something outside of protocol, he would have been reprimanded ...

NateR
06-19-2009, 05:02 PM
What we really need are cops who are mature enough to NOT succumb to taunting. If what she said was enough to make him lose his temper, which he clearly did, then he's simply not mentally stable enough to be a cop.

And just because he's not under investigation or wasn't reprimanded doesn't mean that he did the right thing. The Nazis running the death camps during WW2 were never reprimanded by their superiors, but what they were doing was far from the right thing.

Llamafighter
06-19-2009, 05:23 PM
Okay so I just watched the video for possibly the 5th or 6th time and read another article about the incident. This little bit slipped by me the forst time
The video shows Bieze using the Taser and Winkfein hitting the ground and moaning in pain.


"Put your hands behind your back or you're going to be Tased again," Bieze yells, and then hits her with another jolt.



Soooo, at what point when the lady was already on the ground, moaning and saying what sounded like "help me", did the officer feel the need to tase her again?

The more i learn about this case, the more I believe this officer was just being a bully. I'm sure there are pages and pages of training material with ways to handle these situation from before the almighty taser even came into the officers arsenal. What if he didn't have his taser what would he have done? maced her? shot her? punched her in the face?

Mac
06-19-2009, 06:16 PM
WATCH THIS , THIS IS AN AWSOME POLICE OFFICER HERE. LOOK AT HOW HE HANDLES A SITUATION 10 TIMES WORSE AND STILL KEEPS HIS COOL , WE NEED OFFICERS LIKE THIS GUY , NOT SOME TAZER HAPPY ROBO COP WANNA BE


WARNING :BAD WORDS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_RvJ7CtOw

jason2130
06-19-2009, 06:26 PM
not that its gonna change any opinions about the tase itself, will answer a few questions i seen about if she could/should be arrested for not signing the ticket, from the texas dmv site

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/traffic-tickets.php

1) There's a Cop Behind You with Flashing Lights. What Now?
Whoops, that should be "Public Safety Officer" or "Texas State Trooper." Here's what to do:

Slow down immediately, put on your blinker, and pull over as soon as it is safe.

Breathe deeply and calm down from the initial adrenalin surge of realizing you're being pulled over.

Stay in your car unless instructed otherwise.

Follow all instructions exactly. Move slowly and keep your hands visible. Quick moves can be misinterpreted as a threat.

Be absurdly polite. If you sound almost normal, you are not being polite enough.

Sign the ticket. This is not an admission of guilt, just an acknowlegement that you received the ticket (like signing for a package). And besides, if you don't sign, the officer has to arrest you.

VCURamFan
06-19-2009, 06:30 PM
not that its gonna change any opinions about the tase itself, will answer a few questions i seen about if she could/should be arrested for not signing the ticket, from the texas dmv site

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/traffic-tickets.php

1) There's a Cop Behind You with Flashing Lights. What Now?
Whoops, that should be "Public Safety Officer" or "Texas State Trooper." Here's what to do:

Slow down immediately, put on your blinker, and pull over as soon as it is safe.

Breathe deeply and calm down from the initial adrenalin surge of realizing you're being pulled over.

Stay in your car unless instructed otherwise.

Follow all instructions exactly. Move slowly and keep your hands visible. Quick moves can be misinterpreted as a threat.

Be absurdly polite. If you sound almost normal, you are not being polite enough.

Sign the ticket. This is not an admission of guilt, just an acknowlegement that you received the ticket (like signing for a package). And besides, if you don't sign, the officer has to arrest you.OK, so it's pretty clear that he was correct in arresting her & maybe even justified in threatening resisting arrest (on a technical basis). What I'm going to look for now is a copy of police procedure for suspect detention.

J.B.
06-19-2009, 06:30 PM
Be absurdly polite. If you sound almost normal, you are not being polite enough.

Seriously, get over yourselves...:blink:

J.B.
06-19-2009, 06:32 PM
OK, so it's pretty clear that he was correct in arresting her & maybe even justified in threatening resisting arrest (on a technical basis). What I'm going to look for now is a copy of police procedure for suspect detention.

Technically, okay. But that does not always equate "right from wrong".

This was ridiculous from the get go. A complete waste of time and tax dollars.

jason2130
06-19-2009, 06:34 PM
Seriously, get over yourselves...:blink:


i found that part to be funny myself, all i did was copy and paste what was there

NateR
06-19-2009, 06:35 PM
WATCH THIS , THIS IS AN AWSOME POLICE OFFICER HERE. LOOK AT HOW HE HANDLES A SITUATION 10 TIMES WORSE AND STILL KEEPS HIS COOL , WE NEED OFFICERS LIKE THIS GUY , NOT SOME TAZER HAPPY ROBO COP WANNA BE


WARNING :BAD WORDS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_RvJ7CtOw

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I've seen that video and that's the kind of police officers we need. Not some bully who feels that he needs to defend his manhood to an old lady.

J.B.
06-19-2009, 06:36 PM
all i did was copy and paste what was there

I realize that, I'm just saying....:rolleyes:

Llamafighter
06-19-2009, 06:51 PM
WATCH THIS , THIS IS AN AWSOME POLICE OFFICER HERE. LOOK AT HOW HE HANDLES A SITUATION 10 TIMES WORSE AND STILL KEEPS HIS COOL , WE NEED OFFICERS LIKE THIS GUY , NOT SOME TAZER HAPPY ROBO COP WANNA BE


WARNING :BAD WORDS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_RvJ7CtOw

I love that video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0JRxrWp5Zc&NR=1
This ones hilarious too. The cop comes back ot the lady's car and she says "I didn't think you gave pretty girls tickets" to which he responds "You're absolutely right we don't...sign here"!:laugh:

Llamafighter
06-19-2009, 07:02 PM
OK, so it's pretty clear that he was correct in arresting her & maybe even justified in threatening resisting arrest (on a technical basis). What I'm going to look for now is a copy of police procedure for suspect detention.

The procedure is under "use of force" I believe and there are 6 levels ( I believe) I just looked at Texas...

1. Officer's presence
2. verbal warning
3. empty hand restraint
4. deploy baton, mace, taser
5. lethal force without intent to kill
6. Deadly force

In my opinion he could have given a little more effort to 3.

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 07:07 PM
WATCH THIS , THIS IS AN AWSOME POLICE OFFICER HERE. LOOK AT HOW HE HANDLES A SITUATION 10 TIMES WORSE AND STILL KEEPS HIS COOL , WE NEED OFFICERS LIKE THIS GUY , NOT SOME TAZER HAPPY ROBO COP WANNA BE


WARNING :BAD WORDS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_RvJ7CtOw
But that guy never resisted arrest or did anything that would lead to him being arrested ... she didn't sign the ticket and resisted arrest on more than one occasion and got lit up like a christmas tree ... she deserved it ..

J.B.
06-19-2009, 07:17 PM
got lit up like a christmas tree ... she deserved it ..

Douchebaggery +1

NateR
06-19-2009, 07:19 PM
... she deserved it ..

Following the letter of the law, I guess you could make that argument, but there has been so much evil perpetrated on the world by those who only follow the letter of the law and ignore compassion and common sense.

You seem to want the police to act like a Gestapo, with absolute power that can never be questioned or challenged. Maybe that's how things run in Canada, but it should not be that way here in America.

He didn't tase that woman because she was a criminal, he tased her for challenging his bloated sense of authority.

J.B.
06-19-2009, 07:27 PM
Following the letter of the law, I guess you could make that argument.

I know your view, and I agree with it, but to this particular thing I have to say NO.

You know, probably better than I do, that we as Christians are to follow God's law first, then the law of the state. My personal opinion is that this was an act of anger and frustration, and thus most likely a violation of the standard of God's law. Do you agree, or am I thinking too deeply?

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 07:31 PM
Following the letter of the law, I guess you could make that argument, but there has been so much evil perpetrated on the world by those who only follow the letter of the law and ignore compassion and common sense.

You seem to want the police to act like a Gestapo, with absolute power that can never be questioned or challenged. Maybe that's how things run in Canada, but it should not be that way here in America.

He didn't tase that woman because she was a criminal, he tased her for challenging his bloated sense of authority.
actually, they don't run like that .. but it wasn't like he was asking her to do something that she wasn't supposed to do ... she was asked to sign a ticket (which we don't do here, but apparently you do in Texas) and when she refused, he told her he was going to arrest her and she resisted ... i have been pulled over for traffic violations and have done what was reasonably asked of me ... i was once asked by the cop if the could look around in my car, i said no .. i had nothing to hide, but there was no reason for it and who knows what he thinks he was going to find .. i asked him the reason and he said "that's fine" and didn't bring it up again ... so cops up here are reasonable as long as you do what they want if it is reasonable and required ...

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 07:43 PM
I know your view, and I agree with it, but to this particular thing I have to say NO.

You know, probably better than I do, that we as Christians are to follow God's law first, then the law of the state. My personal opinion is that this was an act of anger and frustration, and thus most likely a violation of the standard of God's law. Do you agree, or am I thinking too deeply?
So then a Christian soldier who knows at some point during his time, that innocent civilians are going to get killed, should he refuse to join or go to war? no ... i know there should be compassion, but honestly, he never once asked anything unreasonable and she still refused ...

NateR
06-19-2009, 07:52 PM
I know your view, and I agree with it, but to this particular thing I have to say NO.

You know, probably better than I do, that we as Christians are to follow God's law first, then the law of the state. My personal opinion is that this was an act of anger and frustration, and thus most likely a violation of the standard of God's law. Do you agree, or am I thinking too deeply?

Only in the sense that, in Texas, not signing a ticket is an arrestable offense. So, technically, it's the law there that she could get arrested on what amounts to a technicality. Thus, that could theoretically escalate to resisting arrest. It's the letter of the law, but that doesn't make it right.

If you were to read the cop's actions on paper and then compare them to the procedure, then it all looks okay. But as we all know, things that look good on paper are rarely so neat and tidy in the real world. It's when you watch the video and see and hear the anger in the cop's voice and body language, that you know that this was something terribly wrong.

NateR
06-19-2009, 07:54 PM
So then a Christian soldier who knows at some point during his time, that innocent civilians are going to get killed, should he refuse to join or go to war? no ... i know there should be compassion, but honestly, he never once asked anything unreasonable and she still refused ...

Technically, he never "asked" for anything unreasonable, but there was plenty unreasonable about his tone and his actions.

Also, no one joins the military expecting to kill civilians and our soldiers will literally bend over backwards to prevent that from happening. Just because the liberal media claims that our soldiers are responsible for the deaths of civilians in a war zone does not make it true. Most of the deaths in Iraq are caused by the evil men that we are fighting. Unfortunately, our media and the terrorists seem to be on the same side in the current propaganda war.

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:06 PM
Only in the sense that, in Texas, not signing a ticket is an arrestable offense. So, technically, it's the law there that she could get arrested on what amounts to a technicality. Thus, that could theoretically escalate to resisting arrest. It's the letter of the law, but that doesn't make it right.



Well, the charge is refusing to sign a ticket. Not 'refusing to sign a ticket upon the first request'. Arrested or not, any decent lawyer could beat that charge in court when she offered to go ahead and sign it. What was her criminal offense after that point? 'Well, I had already made up my mind and refused to change it?"

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:08 PM
I think you're misunderstanding his actions and reading a little too much into his behavior.

Let's say you were the cop.... let her go? That's not an option. Too much liability. She broke a law and the officer was required to take her into custody. It's not a judgement call. He's required. If he didn't and let her go then the city/county/state could be held liable if she got in a wreck, commited a crime etc...

BUT... let's say he does let her go... Do you really think with her attitude she would have gone peacefully into custody at her house? Doubtful. At some point there would be a confrontation... What if she refused to come out of her house? Call in SWAT? Fire tear gas?? The whole situation could just escalate... a police officers job is to DE-escalate a situation as soon as possible.

The last part of your post is the most troubling though Nate... you know absolutely nothing about this officer. His record on the force, morals, values.. you see a 60 second snapshot of his life and instantly judge him. Assume he couldn't possibly be intelligent or have maturity? We can disagree with his actions but I think it's a little harsh to launch attacks on his character because of a very, very brief snapshot of his actions.

What makes you think he was angry or on a power trip?

:laugh: Yes, Nate! Don't attack his character based on a few of his actions ....but it would be okay to electrocute someone based on theirs.



:laugh:

NateR
06-19-2009, 08:09 PM
Well, the charge is refusing to sign a ticket. Not 'refusing to sign a ticket upon the first request'. Arrested or not, any decent lawyer could beat that charge in court when she offered to go ahead and sign it. What was her criminal offense after that point? 'Well, I had already made up my mind and refused to change it?"

Requiring the traffic violator to sign a piece of paper or get arrested is a stupid law and shouldn't even exist. What's the purpose of the signature?

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 08:10 PM
Technically, he never "asked" for anything unreasonable, but there was plenty unreasonable about his tone and his actions.

Also, no one joins the military expecting to kill civilians and our soldiers will literally bend over backwards to prevent that from happening. Just because the liberal media claims that our soldiers are responsible for the deaths of civilians in a war zone does not make it true. Most of the deaths in Iraq are caused by the evil men that we are fighting. Unfortunately, our media and the terrorists seem to be on the same side in the current propaganda war.

I never said or meant that (y)our soldiers go in to kill civilians, but it is known that all wars have civilian caualities .. so in that, a Christian knowing this could say he didn't want to be part of it ... but since the intent is not to kll civilians, then a Christian would by some be ok in joining the armed forces .. and back to this, there are more videos on youtube that show he didn't just pull her out and tase her, he gave her warning after warning .. so still i think tasing her was better than forcefully dumping her on the hood and cuffing her ..

Miss Foxy
06-19-2009, 08:13 PM
I never said or meant that (y)our soldiers go in to kill civilians, but it is known that all wars have civilian caualities .. so in that, a Christian knowing this could say he didn't want to be part of it ... but since the intent is not to kll civilians, then a Christian would by some be ok in joining the armed forces .. and back to this, there are more videos on youtube that show he didn't just pull her out and tase her, he gave her warning after warning .. so still i think tasing her was better than forcefully dumping her on the hood and cuffing her ..
If someone goes into the military thinking they will be duty free from going overseas, working long hours, and protecting the US even if it means by lethal force they have no business wearing a uniform... Plain and simple. If someone cannot handle it then they need to stay home its not for everyone..
As for this cocky cop he should have chose a different method of force. A broken bone is far less worse than a potential heart attack.. IMHO...

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 08:14 PM
Requiring the traffic violator to sign a piece of paper or get arrested is a stupid law and shouldn't even exist. What's the purpose of the signature?
it is a stupid law, but it is not the officers duty to determine which laws are dumb and which are ok ... i think it is to say that she got the ticket ... maybe they have had people use the defence in court that they never were actually speeding and it wasnt' them who got the ticket .. who knows, we don't have that up here ... and probalby most places don't

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 08:18 PM
If someone goes into the military thinking they will be duty free from going overseas, working long hours, and protecting the US even if it means by lethal force they have no business wearing a uniform... Plain and simple. If someone cannot handle it then they need to stay home its not for everyone..
As for this cocky cop he should have chose a different method of force. A broken bone is far less worse than a potential heart attack.. IMHO...
huh? i agree with what you are saying, but that is not what i was saying .. JB said earlier, that being a Christian, you couldn't (or shouldn't) agree with what the cop did .. my response was that i equated it to a Christian soldier who knows that being in a war would at some point through no deliberate actions of their own kill civilians .. then he shouldn't have joined in the first place .. but there are plenty of Christian soldiers in the armed forces and this doesn't stop them ..

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:19 PM
THANK YOU!!!

The cop was right... the lady was wrong and got not only what she asked for... but what she deserved.

He used the approptiate amount of force to end the situation without any harm coming to anybody. The recovery from a Taser is almost instant... recovering from a broken/fractured bone or bruise from him forcing her to the ground is not.

Had he wrestled her to the ground or ended the situation using force of any other kind you would all be complaining about that.

What ever happened to respecting authority???? :blink:

For anyone who wants to argue that tasing is safer than being taken down, I have two questions.

First, do you think that tasing a 72 year old could cause cardiac arrest?

Secondly, which do you believe is more likely to cause a broken bone- falling from a taser hit or being taken down by a trained professional?

NateR
06-19-2009, 08:21 PM
it is a stupid law, but it is not the officers duty to determine which laws are dumb and which are ok ... i think it is to say that she got the ticket ... maybe they have had people use the defence in court that they never were actually speeding and it wasnt' them who got the ticket .. who knows, we don't have that up here ... and probalby most places don't

Well, that doesn't matter because he already has her driver's license information and her license plate number, not to mention the video record of her car being pulled over. She's not going to be able to deny crap. The signature is not necessary.

Again, it's a silly technicality and there was no need to tase her over it.

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:27 PM
Requiring the traffic violator to sign a piece of paper or get arrested is a stupid law and shouldn't even exist. What's the purpose of the signature?

Well, actually it was brilliant in the beginning. Speeding was a criminal offense and you had to go to jail, be booked in, the works. They did away with that by allowing the person to 'bond out' right on the side of the road. The way they did this was to sign, on their own recognance (sp?), that they would show up for court. When you sign a ticket you are in essensce signing your own bond.

Even that causes a lot of headaches so most states are doing away with it and just allowing the cop's signature to suffice (essentially swearing to the ticket.)

However, some courts still stand by it. Some judges her have took the attitude of "Well, they didn't sign the ticket so they essentially told you they weren't going to show up for court. Why didn't you bring them in and have them bond out through a certified bonding company? That way we would be guaranteed our money even if the person didn't show up."

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:29 PM
you ask "what other options?" you need to go back and read the other posts for one, but are you trying to say thats all he could do? i would hope that i would have let her go. in Illinois you do not have to sign the ticket, but i do not know about Texas.

the "line he crossed" would have been when he pulled his taser.

Does Illinois still pull your Driver's license when you get a ticket?

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 08:29 PM
For anyone who wants to argue that tasing is safer than being taken down, I have two questions.

First, do you think that tasing a 72 year old could cause cardiac arrest?

Secondly, which do you believe is more likely to cause a broken bone- falling from a taser hit or being taken down by a trained professional?
I actually think tasing her and having her fall is the safer way ... honestly, have you seen how cops take people down? their safety comes first and they are taught to get the job done and apply the cuffs, but the taser, if you watch when people are tased, very rarely do they fall over like a board, they hit their knees and drop as their body is contracted and not loose ...

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:35 PM
I actually think tasing her and having her fall is the safer way ... honestly, have you seen how cops take people down? their safety comes first and they are taught to get the job done and apply the cuffs, but the taser, if you watch when people are tased, very rarely do they fall over like a board, they hit their knees and drop as their body is contracted and not loose ...

How did she fall?

And I disagree. We are taught by law enforcement on how to attempt to subdue people. A lot of thought goes into not damaging the subduee. (Must try to avoid those law suits, ya know. lol)

How often do cops break bones during a take down up there? :unsure-1:

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 08:38 PM
How did she fall?

And I disagree. We are taught by law enforcement on how to attempt to subdue people. A lot of thought goes into not damaging the subduee. (Must try to avoid those law suits, ya know. lol)

How often do cops break bones during a take down up there? :unsure-1:
don't know that stats, but when someone is resisting arrest, the chance that they get injured goes up ... LOL ..

Neezar
06-19-2009, 08:44 PM
don't know that stats, but when someone is resisting arrest, the chance that they get injured goes up ... LOL ..

:ninja: You haven't watched the video, have you?








:laugh:

J.B.
06-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Does Illinois still pull your Driver's license when you get a ticket?

"pull"

as in TAKE AWAY?

then, Yes. you get stuck with a piece of paper and no actual ID :)

That would explain that...

NateR
06-19-2009, 09:24 PM
"pull"

as in TAKE AWAY?

then, Yes. you get stuck with a piece of paper and no actual ID :)

That would explain that...

Actually I just got a speeding ticket a couple of weeks ago and I still have my driver's license. The officer gave it back to me after writing the ticket.

J.B.
06-19-2009, 09:28 PM
Actually I just got a speeding ticket a couple of weeks ago and I still have my driver's license. The officer gave it back to me after writing the ticket.

See...thats why I guess I have little stock in what people say is SUPPOSED to happen.

I have gotten tickets for speeding, and they took my license, I have been arrested and left with it. So who really knows? It goes back to the idea of what is right for the situation, and we know that cop was wrong. :)

I will say that I know myself and plenty of friends have been left with no way to go out to a bar/club because they got a ticket the week before and bars wont take that stuff. You know, it probably has something to do with you living so far down south. It's a different ball game this close to the city.

rearnakedchoke
06-19-2009, 09:49 PM
Actually I just got a speeding ticket a couple of weeks ago and I still have my driver's license. The officer gave it back to me after writing the ticket.
huh? they take your license when you get a ticket? that's worse than having to sign a ticket

NateR
06-19-2009, 09:56 PM
huh? they take your license when you get a ticket? that's worse than having to sign a ticket

He had it for like 5 minutes. :laugh: He gave it back after writing the ticket. So I now have my driver's license AND a speeding ticket.:)

Like I said earlier. He most likely asked for this woman's driver's license and ran her record to make sure there weren't any warrants for her arrest or anything like that (he would have checked the license plate against the database as well to make sure it wasn't stolen, etc.). So it's not like she would have gotten away scott-free if he had allowed her to drive off. He already had all of her information in the computer.

Neezar
06-20-2009, 02:20 AM
Actually I just got a speeding ticket a couple of weeks ago and I still have my driver's license. The officer gave it back to me after writing the ticket.

Must have been a County cop. :laugh:



Edit: Well, I just looked and the county & state pull driver's license for bond. Must have been city then.


For additional information on Traffic questions, please visit the following: Circuit Court of Cook County Traffic Court Information (http://www.cookcountycourt.org/traffic_court/index.html) or Illinois Vehicle Code – 625 ILCS 5/ (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1815&ChapAct=625%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=49&ChapterName=VEHICLES&ActName=Illinois+Vehicle+Code%2E).

2) Where can I call to obtain information regarding my ticket?
We request that if you know the courthouse location where ticket was issued please call the particular location. If you do not know the ticket number or location, you may call any Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County district(s) and have them search for a ticket number by giving your last name, first name, and date of birth or driver's license number. Please have this information ready when you call. For information on your case if your ticket issued in Chicago please call (312) 603-2000.

3) Can I post a cash bond for my driver's license?
You can post a cash bond pursuant to Supreme Court rules prior to your court date. Please be aware of the following:
* The amount of the bond is set by Supreme Court Rule 526
* Bonds can be posted only in cash. It cannot be replaced with any other sureties.
* Checks and money orders are not accepted.
* Bond must be posted at the Clerk's Office where your ticket is pending.
Exception: You may not post cash bond and receive your driver's license, if you are charged with any of the following offenses:
* Speeding 40 or more miles over the posted speed limit
* Fleeing or attempting to elude police officer
* Leaving the scene of an accident involving death or injury
* Driving under the influence (DUI)
* Drag racing
* Reckless driving
* Suspended driver's license


4) I sent in a check to pay my fine(s), when should I expect to have my drivers license returned?
Your driver's license will be returned once your check is received and processed. This process takes approximately seven to ten working days.



I would be interested to know if they are indeed changing the procedures on this.

Neezar
06-20-2009, 02:22 AM
huh? they take your license when you get a ticket? that's worse than having to sign a ticket

The State troopers in IL take your license (unless it changed recently). That is considered your bond. Hence, you don't have to sign the ticket. You go to the court clerk and pay $ to get them back.

(They also used to allow you to pay cash on the spot and keep your license. I don't know if they do that anymore either.)

Chuck
06-20-2009, 03:37 AM
Chuck, bro, I love ya :)

He had NO business arresting this woman. She could have signed that ticket and been on her way. Just another case of a cop on a power trip if you ask me.

Actually he had no choice but to arrest her. It's called the law. And the officers job is to enforce it... without bias. How far has our society fallen when an officer actually doing his job correctly gets ridiculed for it??

And you're right... she could have signed the ticket and been on her way. But she chose not to. Actions have consequences. She chose not to sign the ticket, dared the officer to tase her, resisted arrest and somehow the guy doing his job is to blame???? WOW.

Oh and I love ya to brother.... you know that!! :D

Chuck
06-20-2009, 03:59 AM
Following the letter of the law, I guess you could make that argument, but there has been so much evil perpetrated on the world by those who only follow the letter of the law and ignore compassion and common sense.

You seem to want the police to act like a Gestapo, with absolute power that can never be questioned or challenged. Maybe that's how things run in Canada, but it should not be that way here in America.

He didn't tase that woman because she was a criminal, he tased her for challenging his bloated sense of authority.

So an officer followed the letter of the law.... and is wrong for doing so???

He tased the woman because she resisted arrest....

This is from the "Matt's faith and fighting" thread....

But those people who would make character judgments of a person based on edited television footage are really not that intelligent to begin with.
Do you think judging an officer on 60 seconds of edited video is much different then people judging Matt based off a clip they see on TUF?

The officer performs a job nobody on this board is trained to do..
He is charged with enforcing laws we're not even familiar with...
His job requires him to follow procedures and training that we don't have and haven't been trained in....

But still.... folks on this board...knowing nothing other then what they see on a 60 second video clip... can judge his character, make claims about his personality, judge his decision making and best of all.... insult, curse at & demean other members of this forum who don't agree with them...

Wow... just..... wow........:cry:

MattHughesRocks
06-20-2009, 04:11 AM
That's it! I am tasing all of you the next time I see you :angry:

Let it diiiiiie people! Let it diiiieeee :bawling:


Oh wait...we're talking Chuck here :scared0011:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e292/skysrock/Suicide/suicide-2.gif












:tongue0011:

Bonnie
06-20-2009, 04:24 AM
That's it! I am tasing all of you the next time I see you :angry:

Let it diiiiiie people! Let it diiiieeee :bawling:


Oh wait...we're talking Chuck here :scared0011:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e292/skysrock/Suicide/suicide-2.gif












:tongue0011:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

NateR
06-20-2009, 04:52 AM
So an officer followed the letter of the law.... and is wrong for doing so???

He tased the woman because she resisted arrest....

This is from the "Matt's faith and fighting" thread....


Do you think judging an officer on 60 seconds of edited video is much different then people judging Matt based off a clip they see on TUF?

The officer performs a job nobody on this board is trained to do..
He is charged with enforcing laws we're not even familiar with...
His job requires him to follow procedures and training that we don't have and haven't been trained in....

But still.... folks on this board...knowing nothing other then what they see on a 60 second video clip... can judge his character, make claims about his personality, judge his decision making and best of all.... insult, curse at & demean other members of this forum who don't agree with them...

Wow... just..... wow........:cry:

There is only so much you can blame on editing. :laugh: The officer still tased a 72 year old woman, he is in the wrong. He could have still enforced and upheld the law without screaming in her ear or tasing her.

If I watched 60 seconds of some guy shoplifting, I wouldn't be wrong in calling him a thief right? No matter what his motives are, he's still stealing, thus he's a thief. In the same vein, watching this cops actions over those 60 seconds reveals a lot about his character, or lack thereof. He's either a coward, a bully or just extremely short-tempered. None of those are good traits for a police officer.

J.B.
06-20-2009, 05:16 AM
Actually he had no choice but to arrest her. It's called the law. And the officers job is to enforce it... without bias. How far has our society fallen when an officer actually doing his job correctly gets ridiculed for it??

And you're right... she could have signed the ticket and been on her way. But she chose not to. Actions have consequences. She chose not to sign the ticket, dared the officer to tase her, resisted arrest and somehow the guy doing his job is to blame???? WOW.

Oh and I love ya to brother.... you know that!! :D


I agree that she was being a pain in the butt, but she did offer to sign the ticket after a minute. He could have just let her sign it and go at that point, but he decided that he was RoboCop that day. :laugh:

Neezar
06-21-2009, 03:30 AM
The officer performs a job nobody on this board is trained to do..
He is charged with enforcing laws we're not even familiar with...
His job requires him to follow procedures and training that we don't have and haven't been trained in....



We have cops on here, Chuck. You have been gone too long. :laugh:

F34R
06-21-2009, 04:09 PM
Ok, let me reply to this thread... I see a lot of posts on here saying he did the wrong thing. Well, from first hand knowledge, and I'll explain, he did the right thing.

First, she is UNDER ARREST. This cop gave her the chance to leave peacefully, she refused. Under their laws she is required to sign the tickest stating she will be in court. If you DON'T sign the ticket, you go to jail. It's that simple. She chose the later route. He had no choice under their laws except to place her under arrest. You can't just go back on it once you tell them they are under arrest because they NOW choose to comply. It doesn't work like that.

Now someone mentioned letting her ride away, and be waiting at her house or something. It doesn't work that way. Once you are under arrest, you are under arrest. You can't just UN-arrest someone. If he lets her drive away, and ANYTHING happens to her, or someone else because of her, that Officer is liable for it.

As far as tackling her to the ground or forcefully restraining her in handcuffs. Sure he could have tried that. Let me explain something to each and every one that doesn't like what he did. If she resists even further when he is physically restraining her and slips away into trafic, she gets hit, and the cop is liable for her death. Just because she is a 72 year old woman doesn't mean her clothes won't rip, the cop doesn't get off balance, whatever... it's an risk that doesn't need to be taken with all that high speed traffic right next to them. There are a million things that can go wrong when trying to physically restraining someone. Broken bones, cuts, internal injuries, etc. I don't think most of you realize how volatile people can be, regardless of age and sex, when they are flailing around without any thought of what they are doing. I personally was witness to two officers both over 6ft tall, 200+ pounds have to taze a 5'6" male subject because they couldnt safely subdue him without causing him injuries do to the way he was flailing around. Also, they could have received injuries from finger nails, pokes, strikes from flailing arms, etc. It's just not as easy as "you are a big cop, she is a old lady".

People, cops, citizens, etc., get hit on the side of the road all too often, and this could have been another case of that.

If I had been in that situation I probably wouldn't have had any other choice either.

MattHughesRocks
06-21-2009, 04:20 PM
He did not need to tase her.

F34R
06-21-2009, 05:15 PM
He did not need to tase her.
I guess he didn't NEED to stop her for speeding either.
I think he chose the best way to bring her into custody with the least amount of force needed.

She didn't sustain any injuries except two small puncture wounds where the probes stuck to her body.

Compare that to the other injuries she might have sustained from a physical altercation.