PDA

View Full Version : Abortion Doctor Shot & Killed


rockdawg21
05-31-2009, 07:00 PM
It's bound to happen until abortions are made illegal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377

Police: Kansas abortion physician killed
Controversial doctor was acquitted in March on charges related to his work

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090531-tiller-hmed-10a.hmedium.jpg
Mike Hutmacher / MCT / Newscom file

Dr. George Tiller enters the courtroom Monday, March 23, 2009, on the first day of his jury trial in Wichita, Kansas. He was reportedly shot and killed Sunday at his Wichita church.

BREAKING NEWS
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/APTRANS.gif
updated 3 minutes ago

WICHITA, Kansas - Wichita police say that abortion provider Dr. George Tiller has been shot and killed at his Wichita church.

Tiller has been among the few U.S. physicians performing late-term abortion. His clinic has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades.

The Wichita Eagle was reporting on its Web site, Kansas.com, that Tiller, 67, was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was a member of the congregation. The newspaper reported that witnesses and a police source confirmed Tiller was the victim.

Authorities looking for powder blue Taurus
The New York Times reported Sunday that the shots were fired from a handgun in the church lobby during the morning service. Authorities told the newspaper they were searching for a powder blue Taurus made in the 1990s that had been seen leaving shortly after the shooting. Witnesses told authorities they saw a white man departing.

NBC News affiliate, KSN news, said the Taurus has a Kansas tag of 225BAB that is traced to a residence in Marion, Kan.

Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, which has been critical of Tiller, issued the following statement on its Web site Sunday:

"We are shocked at this morningís disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down. Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tillerís family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ."

Tiller had been acquitted in March of 19 misdemeanor charges stemming from procedures he performed, but moments after the verdict the stateís medical board announced it was investigating allegations against him that are nearly identical to those the jury had rejected.

Prosecutors had alleged that Tiller had in 2003 gotten second opinions from a doctor who was essentially an employee of his, not independent as state law requires, but a jury took only about an hour to find him not guilty of all 19 counts.

Claimed prosecution was politically motivated
Tiller, who could have faced a year in jail for even one conviction, stared straight ahead as the verdicts were read, with one of his attorneys patting his shoulder after the decision on the final count was declared. His wife, seated across the courtroom, fought back tears and nodded. The couple had declined to speak to reporters afterward.

Tiller had claimed that the prosecution was politically motivated. An attorney general who opposed abortion rights began the investigation into Tillerís clinic more than four years ago, but both his successor, who filed the criminal charges, and the current attorney general support abortion rights.

Tiller had been a favored target of anti-abortion protesters, and he testified that he and his family have suffered years of harassment and threats. His clinic was the site of the 1991 ďSummer of MercyĒ protests marked by mass demonstrations and arrests. His clinic was bombed in 1985, and an abortion opponent shot him in both arms in 1993.

The Wichita Eagle reported Sunday that Tiller's clinic had been severely vandalized earlier this month. The newspaper said the Associated Press reported that wires to security cameras and outdoor lights were cut and that the vandals also cut through the roof and plugged the building's downspouts.

Tiller had reportedly asked the FBI to investigate the incident, which caused thousands of dollars of damage to the clinic when rain poured through the roof.

cheachea
05-31-2009, 07:37 PM
2 wrongs don't make a right but at least he won't be murdering babies anymore.

Tyburn
05-31-2009, 07:46 PM
Great.

So now rather then one Evil man in Hell...we have Two Evil men in Hell.

They might both be able to keep each other company, once the killer gets over the suprise of ending up exactly where the murderer has done.

Meanwhile, at least all the victims of the Murderer went to Heaven.

Its not right...and certainly not right in Church...thats Consecrated Ground, Would you kill another infront of the Burning Bush? Would you kill another on Mount Sinai? Would you kill another at The Dome of The Rock? Its SO wrong, so VERY Wrong. I hope they catch who killed the Doctor, and I hope they give him the death penalty aswell.

You dont beat Evil with Evil. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

David_Banner
05-31-2009, 08:46 PM
Another terrible blemish for christians to deal with.

Tyburn
05-31-2009, 08:48 PM
Another terrible blemish for christians to deal with.
only the one who took it on board to shoot him. :mellow:

MattHughesRocks
05-31-2009, 09:28 PM
Oh great...now someone kill him. No point in stopping now folks let's keep it rolling!

God help us all we need it :blink:

J.B.
05-31-2009, 09:42 PM
That's Tiller the Baby Killer....

He has been notorious for performing illegal late-term abortions and lots of other things.

I don't condone shooting anybody down inside of a Church, that is just a whole other level of wrong. This may sound terrible, but he should have at least waited till he left and followed him home or something. I also don't condone killing abortion doctors in cold blood, but if you have your mind set that you are going to do it, DON'T do it at a Church.

I'm sorry to sound cold, but I have no sympathy for that man. His family, sure, but not him. Good bye and good riddance.

Dave, you are right you can't stop evil with evil, but as an onlooker I have to admit I feel better knowing that Tiller is not around doing what he did before. It does not make it right for somebody to murder him, and I would never do that, but I still have no sympathy for the guy.

atomdanger
05-31-2009, 10:44 PM
2 wrongs don't make a right but at least he won't be murdering babies anymore.

Your sig is sick

cheachea
05-31-2009, 11:43 PM
Thanks Bro

logrus
05-31-2009, 11:45 PM
The taking of a life under the banner of "PRO LIFE", now that hypocrisy at its finest.

cheachea
05-31-2009, 11:48 PM
Tell me something, is it better that thousands of lives be taken by one man, or that the one man be taken out of the way so thousands of infants may live ?

NateR
06-01-2009, 12:04 AM
Well, you reap what you sow... This guy made a living out of murdering children, so I'm not going to shed a single tear for him. In fact, I'll be happy for all the children who might now have a chance at life now that this man is dead.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 12:11 AM
That's Tiller the Baby Killer....

He has been notorious for performing illegal late-term abortions and lots of other things.

I don't condone shooting anybody down inside of a Church, that is just a whole other level of wrong. This may sound terrible, but he should have at least waited till he left and followed him home or something. I also don't condone killing abortion doctors in cold blood, but if you have your mind set that you are going to do it, DON'T do it at a Church.

I'm sorry to sound cold, but I have no sympathy for that man. His family, sure, but not him. Good bye and good riddance.

Dave, you are right you can't stop evil with evil, but as an onlooker I have to admit I feel better knowing that Tiller is not around doing what he did before. It does not make it right for somebody to murder him, and I would never do that, but I still have no sympathy for the guy.


I have no sympathy for either of them.

They both committed cold blooded murder, they both deserve to die, the both committed vile sin, they both deserve to go to Hell

Killing babies and going to church wont save you, killing a baby killer in Church is not doing GOD a service

The only innocents in this are those poor babies, thank GOD THEY at least are in heaven.

cheachea
06-01-2009, 12:12 AM
Well, you reap what you sow... This guy made a living out of murdering children, so I'm not going to shed a single tear for him. In fact, I'll be happy for all the children who might now have a chance at life now that this man is dead.



I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like this LOL.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 12:17 AM
Well, you reap what you sow... This guy made a living out of murdering children, so I'm not going to shed a single tear for him. In fact, I'll be happy for all the children who might now have a chance at life now that this man is dead.
thats not the issue is it Nathan.

Vengence is mine Saith the Lord...not whoever shot the guy in church. Its a thouroughly unchristian attitude, you cant justify it using the myth of redemptive violence, because there is no such thing, and you really oughta come out and publically condemn ANY murderer, not be selective over whose life you think is more worthy...imagine, if someone could have reached that guy and properly converted him? We might have two more souls saved...incase you had not realized we are at war. Those Babies went to Heaven...where did the soul of the murderer go??? Or doesnt that bother you? because it should, you know, it should deeply bother you, that rather then use the power of the Holy Spirit to convict someone of sin until they change, you forget to remind everyone, that killing that person, doesnt actually solve anything.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 12:22 AM
Tell me something, is it better that thousands of lives be taken by one man, or that the one man be taken out of the way so thousands of infants may live ?
That depends on who gets killed.

Babies getting killed do not get "taken" so to speak. Souls of the evil people, are ripe for conversion, and ripe for saving...unless some bloody ejit decides to off them all before Christ could get to them

Two people stand to be "taken" over this...neither of them are unborn infants. A fact I think both you and Nathan really should have been able to see without me pointing this out. This has nothing to do with thousands of dead but saved infants...and a lot to do with two extremely missguided and sinful souls still in the clutches of our Enemies....may not bother you...but it bloody well bothers me...I dont want Satan to have ANYONE, not a single soul...so dont expect me to praise the actions of a deluded moralist whose now as guilty as the person he just killed. Dont expect me to be happy about that...at least the Doctors Actions sent noone to hell!

NateR
06-01-2009, 12:27 AM
The taking of a life under the banner of "PRO LIFE", now that hypocrisy at its finest.

No more hypocritical than attributing the actions of this one man to the entire Pro-Life movement.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 12:36 AM
I agree that what the man did was wrong Dave, but we also don't know ALL the facts yet. This guy Tiller was hated by a LOT of people, and he may have done something that directly affected the life of the man who shot him. It might not have been just some random Pro-Life activist. I am NOT saying that would justify what he did, I am just saying that we should know all the facts before we assume things. Pro-Choice groups love to use this kind of thing against us, to paint us all as psychos but there may have been a personal aspect to it that we are not aware of. I don't know for sure, I'm just saying.

It's also not fair to say that this man deserves to burn in hell. His soul is still ripe for saving as well, and ultimately God makes that choice of who gets into the Kingdom of Heaven. Even with Tiller, I still despise what the man did, but only God gets to decide where he goes now that he is dead.

NateR
06-01-2009, 12:36 AM
thats not the issue is it Nathan.

Vengence is mine Saith the Lord...not whoever shot the guy in church. Its a thouroughly unchristian attitude, you cant justify it using the myth of redemptive violence, because there is no such thing, and you really oughta come out and publically condemn ANY murderer, not be selective over whose life you think is more worthy...imagine, if someone could have reached that guy and properly converted him? We might have two more souls saved...incase you had not realized we are at war. Those Babies went to Heaven...where did the soul of the murderer go??? Or doesnt that bother you? because it should, you know, it should deeply bother you, that rather then use the power of the Holy Spirit to convict someone of sin until they change, you forget to remind everyone, that killing that person, doesnt actually solve anything.

I wouldn't feel bad about a drug dealer who was gunned down in the street and I didn't feel bad for Jeffery Daumer when he was beaten to death in prison by his fellow inmates. Why should I cry for this man who profited from the death of children?

Never once did I endorse the murder of the doctor, I just don't feel bad about it.

Also, don't pretend that the doctor was somehow doing GOD a favor by aborting these children. That's more perverse and twisted than what you are accusing me of.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 12:50 AM
I wouldn't feel bad about a drug dealer who was gunned down in the street and I didn't feel bad for Jeffery Daumer when he was beaten to death in prison by his fellow inmates. Why should I cry for this man who profited from the death of children?


To be fair, there is a big difference between drug dealers and Jeff Daumer. The term drug dealer can apply to anybody from the violent gang member selling crack on street corners where kids play to a high school teenager who sells pot to his buddies. Jeff Daumer was Jeff Daumer, and we all know what he did.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 12:54 AM
I agree that what the man did was wrong Dave, but we also don't know ALL the facts yet. This guy Tiller was hated by a LOT of people, and he may have done something that directly affected the life of the man who shot him. It might not have been just some random Pro-Life activist. I am NOT saying that would justify what he did, I am just saying that we should know all the facts before we assume things. Pro-Choice groups love to use this kind of thing against us, to paint us all as psychos but there may have been a personal aspect to it that we are not aware of. I don't know for sure, I'm just saying.

It's also not fair to say that this man deserves to burn in hell. His soul is still ripe for saving as well, and ultimately God makes that choice of who gets into the Kingdom of Heaven. Even with Tiller, I still despise what the man did, but only God gets to decide where he goes now that he is dead.

We dont need to know the facts to say Murder of any kind is wrong.

...yes, the shooter is now a sinner who could be won over...but he's not going to be won over when half the Christian population seem to almost want to pardon him due to the sin the target caused them.

As for Tiller, well I'm assuming he wasnt really a christian. Whilst a Christian might be pro-choice in letting the mother have the choice...I'm not sure a Christian could actually get involved with the killing in a practical manner...I'm not sure how they could justify that...allowing free will is one thing, fulfilling the sinful desires of someone with free will who made the evil choice...thats not so easily justified is it :unsure-1:

NateR
06-01-2009, 12:58 AM
The term drug dealer can apply to anybody from the violent gang member selling crack on street corners where kids play to a high school teenager who sells pot to his buddies.

Hmmmm, did somebody sell pot to his friends in high school?:tongue0011:

I guess I'm talking about the "full time" drug dealers who prey on children and try to turn everyone they can into addicts.

I also forgot that Jeffery Daumer became a born-again Christian while he was in prison. So he's in Heaven right now, it's his victims who are most likely the ones in Hell.

cheachea
06-01-2009, 12:59 AM
The way I see it is like this, our courts did not convict this guy and he had plenty of chances to repent. Sometimes justice can be accomplished through other ways other than the goverment. That doctor was a prophet of Baal that sacrificed babies to devils. I understand that it is not our place to to take justice in our own hands. We also have to keep in mind that the person who did this probally wasn't a real Christian. So there we have it ,2 men obviously not in God's will klilling humans and then being killed.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 01:03 AM
We dont need to know the facts to say Murder of any kind is wrong.

...yes, the shooter is now a sinner who could be won over...but he's not going to be won over when half the Christian population seem to almost want to pardon him due to the sin the target caused them.

As for Tiller, well I'm assuming he wasnt really a christian. Whilst a Christian might be pro-choice in letting the mother have the choice...I'm not sure a Christian could actually get involved with the killing in a practical manner...I'm not sure how they could justify that...allowing free will is one thing, fulfilling the sinful desires of someone with free will who made the evil choice...thats not so easily justified is it :unsure-1:

I know it's wrong, I said it a bunch! :laugh:

He could still repent and see the error in his ways. I don't want to pardon him, not at all. He committed a violent crime in broad daylight, and IN A CHURCH. He deserves to be brought to justice, and he will be. Whatever worldly punishment is given to him will be his to deal with, but as long as he is still alive he has time to try and make his peace with God, and like you, I hope that he does.

Personally, I agree, Tiller was not living a Christian life by any means, and if I had to guess I would say that he IS burning in Hell. My point was just that ultimately, where his soul lies is completely up to God.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 01:07 AM
I wouldn't feel bad about a drug dealer who was gunned down in the street and I didn't feel bad for Jeffery Daumer when he was beaten to death in prison by his fellow inmates. Why should I cry for this man who profited from the death of children?

Never once did I endorse the murder of the doctor, I just don't feel bad about it.

Also, don't pretend that the doctor was somehow doing GOD a favor by aborting these children. That's more perverse and twisted than what you are accusing me of.
You should feel bad about anyone who dies and hasnt been saved Nathan, because if the Church, and that includes yourself, was living up to expectations, those people wouldnt be in that position in the first place.

Never once did you condemn the murder of the doctor either. I never said the doctor was doing GOD a favour...I said that the Doctors Victims all went to heaven...If you really have to kill...better you kill a christian, then a heathen, for a Christian lives on...a Heathen death is a battle won by the Enemy...do you understand that?? Every life that is lost unsaved is a battle that we could have won...and a battle that we have now forever lost.

If GOD thinks each and every man and women is worth saving simply because they are human and made in his image...who are you to say that a drugs dealer, or prison convict is somehow not worth the bother?

Have you no heart for the lost Mr Rosario :huh: perhaps its just me who feels awful about what could have been if only, we, as Christians had tried that little bit harder, or been that little bit more approachable, if only we had reached some of these people before the demons got to them...I get the distinct feeling that most people dont actually care what happens to evil people...but I believe that if GOD had felt that way, he wouldnt have sacrificed his son...after all...before we were saved...we were just as bad as those people you are so quick to refuse a choice tear for.

Tell me I'm not speaking the truth here..? tell me my theology is unsound..? Because I've thought long and hard about this topic for quite a while, ever sinse it last came up on this forum, I cant remember when, but I really had to challenge myself, I really had to ask myself, I was always wondering if I would be so quick to follow my own words if it happened to me, or involved someone I knew...quite possibly not, I'm willing to admit that if someone murdered a friend of mine, I might just go to the ends of the earth to lynch them myself...but I kept having this thought about that day on the Tavistock bus when that Christian woman got blown to bits all over the wall of the square, and how her parents came out within the week to say they forgave the bomber because The Lord required it...I know, what I am saying is Truth...could I follow it if it were personal...I dont know...does that make me a hypocrit...possibly...but you tell me that what I'm saying is wrong..because I really think I'm right here :unsure-1:

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 01:07 AM
I know it's wrong, I said it a bunch! :laugh:

He could still repent and see the error in his ways. I don't want to pardon him, not at all. He committed a violent crime in broad daylight, and IN A CHURCH. He deserves to be brought to justice, and he will be. Whatever worldly punishment is given to him will be his to deal with, but as long as he is still alive he has time to try and make his peace with God, and like you, I hope that he does.

Personally, I agree, Tiller was not living a Christian life by any means, and if I had to guess I would say that he IS burning in Hell. My point was just that ultimately, where his soul lies is completely up to God.
:laugh: I think we aggree with one another :laugh:

matthughesfan21
06-01-2009, 01:08 AM
Well, you reap what you sow... This guy made a living out of murdering children, so I'm not going to shed a single tear for him. In fact, I'll be happy for all the children who might now have a chance at life now that this man is dead.
i don't feel sorry for the guy, even though i also believe two wrongs don't make a right, but unfortunately even with him gone, abortions are still going to take place, until it becomes illegal, just another doctor will take his place//its not like these women were unwillingly given abortions, they wanted them, and as long as the law allows it, they will find a way to get it

J.B.
06-01-2009, 01:10 AM
Hmmmm, did somebody sell pot to his friends in high school?:tongue0011:

I guess I'm talking about the "full time" drug dealers who prey on children and try to turn everyone they can into addicts.

I also forgot that Jeffery Daumer became a born-again Christian while he was in prison. So he's in Heaven right now, it's his victims who are most likely the ones in Hell.

No, but I had plenty of friends who did, so they had the market tied up! :rolleyes: :laugh:

I know what you mean though, and I agree with what you are saying about those kinds of dealers. They live by the sword, and so they die by the sword. Of course, some of the inner-city kids who end up running with gangs and selling drugs get involved so young that it's almost like it's the only way of life they know. I am not trying to justify it, just saying it's sad.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 01:11 AM
:laugh: I think we aggree with one another :laugh:

:w00t: :happydancing:

:laugh:

cheachea
06-01-2009, 01:16 AM
No, but I had plenty of friends who did, so they had the market tied up! :rolleyes: :laugh:

I know what you mean though, and I agree with what you are saying about those kinds of dealers. They live by the sword, and so they die by the sword. Of course, some of the inner-city kids who end up running with gangs and selling drugs get involved so young that it's almost like it's the only way of life they know. I am not trying to justify it, just saying it's sad.

You know it almost seems like this this doctor lived by the sword in a way because he was a murderer so obviously he's going to get murdered.

NateR
06-01-2009, 01:18 AM
You should feel bad about anyone who dies and hasnt been saved Nathan, because if the Church, and that includes yourself, was living up to expectations, those people wouldnt be in that position in the first place.

Never once did you condemn the murder of the doctor either. I never said the doctor was doing GOD a favour...I said that the Doctors Victims all went to heaven...If you really have to kill...better you kill a christian, then a heathen, for a Christian lives on...a Heathen death is a battle won by the Enemy...do you understand that?? Every life that is lost unsaved is a battle that we could have won...and a battle that we have now forever lost.

If GOD thinks each and every man and women is worth saving simply because they are human and made in his image...who are you to say that a drugs dealer, or prison convict is somehow not worth the bother?

Have you no heart for the lost Mr Rosario :huh: perhaps its just me who feels awful about what could have been if only, we, as Christians had tried that little bit harder, or been that little bit more approachable, if only we had reached some of these people before the demons got to them...I get the distinct feeling that most people dont actually care what happens to evil people...but I believe that if GOD had felt that way, he wouldnt have sacrificed his son...after all...before we were saved...we were just as bad as those people you are so quick to refuse a choice tear for.

Tell me I'm not speaking the truth here..? tell me my theology is unsound..? Because I've thought long and hard about this topic for quite a while, ever sinse it last came up on this forum, I cant remember when, but I really had to challenge myself, I really had to ask myself, I was always wondering if I would be so quick to follow my own words if it happened to me, or involved someone I knew...quite possibly not, I'm willing to admit that if someone murdered a friend of mine, I might just go to the ends of the earth to lynch them myself...but I kept having this thought about that day on the Tavistock bus when that Christian woman got blown to bits all over the wall of the square, and how her parents came out within the week to say they forgave the bomber because The Lord required it...I know, what I am saying is Truth...could I follow it if it were personal...I dont know...does that make me a hypocrit...possibly...but you tell me that what I'm saying is wrong..because I really think I'm right here :unsure-1:

I think it's just a waste of time to feel sorry for this guy. He profited off of the death of children, thus he reaped what he sowed. I'm not going to waste my time feeling remorseful that this evil man is dead.

Revelation 22:11 - "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."

NateR
06-01-2009, 01:22 AM
i don't feel sorry for the guy, even though i also believe two wrongs don't make a right, but unfortunately even with him gone, abortions are still going to take place, until it becomes illegal, just another doctor will take his place//its not like these women were unwillingly given abortions, they wanted them, and as long as the law allows it, they will find a way to get it

Well this guy was a different kind of abortion doctor:

Tiller has been among the few U.S. physicians performing late-term abortion.

So, with him gone, it's going to be much, much more difficult for women to find a doctor who gives late-term abortions. If you were to ever watch a late-term abortion take place, there would be no doubt in your mind that it is nothing short of murder.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 01:30 AM
I just read that Tiller's family called this "a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America"

Umm...no....

cheachea
06-01-2009, 01:45 AM
Also, we have to keep in mind that one of the things that God hates are hands that shed innocent blood. Prob. Chp. 6 Verse 16-19
The Lord is loving and he is also a just God.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 02:05 AM
I think it's just a waste of time to feel sorry for this guy. He profited off of the death of children, thus he reaped what he sowed. I'm not going to waste my time feeling remorseful that this evil man is dead.

Revelation 22:11 - "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."
:unsure-1: maybe your right...I just wish that everyone could be saved, thats all :sad:

cheachea
06-01-2009, 02:06 AM
:unsure-1: maybe your right...I just wish that everyone could be saved, thats all :sad:


I do to Bro.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 02:08 AM
I do to Bro.
I just hate to think of anyone being in Hell...even if they are evil and stuff...I dont understand it...I just wish it didnt have to be like that. Its almost an irrational feeling that really longs for a utopia which hasnt been seen since Eden :laugh:

cheachea
06-01-2009, 02:18 AM
God Bless You Tyburn. I used to think alot of stuff like that. I would think stuff like, Man why can't the Devil be forgiven and stuff and we all be in Heaven praising God and everthing be all good, but now I just realize there will be people in Hell by there own choice and that just really sucks.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 03:01 AM
God Bless You Tyburn. I used to think alot of stuff like that. I would think stuff like, Man why can't the Devil be forgiven and stuff and we all be in Heaven praising God and everthing be all good, but now I just realize there will be people in Hell by there own choice and that just really sucks.
:ashamed: I'm glad im not the only one who has at least felt like that sometimes.

It does suck...but thats life...GOD makes the rules, we just play :laugh:

huan
06-01-2009, 03:09 AM
This reminded me of the Feldkamp family plane crash that happened not so long ago. For anyone not familiar, Bud Feldkamp owns the largest privately owned abortion chain in the nation. In late March, a private plane carrying his family to their intended vacation at a ski resort crashed right next to a memorial that was built as a dedication to all the babies who have died because of abortion.

For the full article see:
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/646579835.html

Nate is 100% right. You reap what you sow.

MattHughesRocks
06-01-2009, 03:30 AM
Wow. I had heard of that plane crash but I had no idea.

This reminded me of the Feldkamp family plane crash that happened not so long ago. For anyone not familiar, Bud Feldkamp owns the largest privately owned abortion chain in the nation. In late March, a private plane carrying his family to their intended vacation at a ski resort crashed right next to a memorial that was built as a dedication to all the babies who have died because of abortion.

For the full article see:
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/646579835.html

Nate is 100% right. You reap what you sow.

Neezar
06-01-2009, 03:54 AM
You should feel bad about anyone who dies and hasnt been saved Nathan, because if the Church, and that includes yourself, was living up to expectations, those people wouldnt be in that position in the first place.

Never once did you condemn the murder of the doctor either. I never said the doctor was doing GOD a favour...I said that the Doctors Victims all went to heaven...If you really have to kill...better you kill a christian, then a heathen, for a Christian lives on...a Heathen death is a battle won by the Enemy...do you understand that?? Every life that is lost unsaved is a battle that we could have won...and a battle that we have now forever lost.

If GOD thinks each and every man and women is worth saving simply because they are human and made in his image...who are you to say that a drugs dealer, or prison convict is somehow not worth the bother?

Have you no heart for the lost Mr Rosario :huh: perhaps its just me who feels awful about what could have been if only, we, as Christians had tried that little bit harder, or been that little bit more approachable, if only we had reached some of these people before the demons got to them...I get the distinct feeling that most people dont actually care what happens to evil people...but I believe that if GOD had felt that way, he wouldnt have sacrificed his son...after all...before we were saved...we were just as bad as those people you are so quick to refuse a choice tear for.

Tell me I'm not speaking the truth here..? tell me my theology is unsound..? Because I've thought long and hard about this topic for quite a while, ever sinse it last came up on this forum, I cant remember when, but I really had to challenge myself, I really had to ask myself, I was always wondering if I would be so quick to follow my own words if it happened to me, or involved someone I knew...quite possibly not, I'm willing to admit that if someone murdered a friend of mine, I might just go to the ends of the earth to lynch them myself...but I kept having this thought about that day on the Tavistock bus when that Christian woman got blown to bits all over the wall of the square, and how her parents came out within the week to say they forgave the bomber because The Lord required it...I know, what I am saying is Truth...could I follow it if it were personal...I dont know...does that make me a hypocrit...possibly...but you tell me that what I'm saying is wrong..because I really think I'm right here :unsure-1:

Dave, I think you are wrong.

Neezar
06-01-2009, 03:58 AM
Vengence is mine Saith the Lord...not whoever shot the guy in church. .

Well, I don't know that the Lord didn't send that guy to seek vengence for Him. So for now, I will be guilt-free when I don't feel sorry for the abortion doctor.

logrus
06-01-2009, 04:06 AM
No more hypocritical than attributing the actions of this one man to the entire Pro-Life movement.

One man and yet many condone his actions. I fail to see the one in any of this.

Miss Foxy
06-01-2009, 04:24 AM
Well, you reap what you sow... This guy made a living out of murdering children, so I'm not going to shed a single tear for him. In fact, I'll be happy for all the children who might now have a chance at life now that this man is dead.
Im with you on this one.

NateR
06-01-2009, 04:26 AM
One man and yet many condone his actions. I fail to see the one in any of this.

Nobody is condoning the actions of the murderer here. But he didn't actually kill an innocent person, he just killed another murderer, so it's difficult to get all broken up about it.

logrus
06-01-2009, 04:48 AM
Nobody is condoning the actions of the murderer here. But he didn't actually kill an innocent person, he just killed another murderer, so it's difficult to get all broken up about it.

I am pretty sure killing a convicted murderer will land you a few years in the slammer. Besides when did 2 wrongs become 1 right anyways.

Hes no more a killer then the people seeking the treatment, when are we going to start putting 2 right between their eyes.

NateR
06-01-2009, 04:59 AM
I am pretty sure killing a convicted murderer will land you a few years in the slammer. Besides when did 2 wrongs become 1 right anyways.

Hes no more a killer then the people seeking the treatment, when are we going to start putting 2 right between their eyes.

No one is claiming that shooting this guy was the right thing to do. We just refuse to feel sorry for him because he chose his career path and he chose to profit from the deaths of innocent children.

But you know that... you're just intentionally trying to misrepresent our comments to paint us all as hypocrites. Typical liberal stupidity. :rolleyes:

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 09:16 AM
Dave, I think you are wrong.
:laugh: you usually do :rolleyes:

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Well, I don't know that the Lord didn't send that guy to seek vengence for Him. So for now, I will be guilt-free when I don't feel sorry for the abortion doctor.
Since when does The Lord send His people to break His own Law? :rolleyes:

GOD has no need to work like some kinda rougue terrorist :angry:

rockdawg21
06-01-2009, 12:34 PM
Happy to see I'm not the only one who feels his murder is, somewhat justified. He's been murdering for decades, so somebody killed him back. Another murderer gone.

Vizion
06-01-2009, 03:00 PM
Well, I don't know that the Lord didn't send that guy to seek vengence for Him. So for now, I will be guilt-free when I don't feel sorry for the abortion doctor.
Exactly.

The two men involved are not equatable. One is pure evil for the willful murder of babies, the other is on a crusade to stop said murders. They each had a mission, but one had a mission borne out of the human need to defend the defenseless innocence of the babies, while the other did so for an entirely different purpose.

ufcfan2
06-01-2009, 03:08 PM
Happy to see I'm not the only one who feels his murder is, somewhat justified. He's been murdering for decades, so somebody killed him back. Another murderer gone.
Pretty F'd up thinking and a crappy mentality to have. I don't agree with late-term abortions(not sure there is a law that says it,and don't say gods law),and there are better ways to stop this.
It just seems anti-abortionist take extemist and terroristic type tactics against doctors/clinics and to me that takes away from their movement. To defend their actions is sad and unjustifyable no matter how u spin it.
I don't wanna get into this issue as I think there was a thread about this already..Pro-Choice is not Anti-Life.

Miss Foxy
06-01-2009, 03:18 PM
Pretty F'd up thinking and a crappy mentality to have. I don't agree with late-term abortions(not sure there is a law that says it,and don't say gods law),and there are better ways to stop this.
It just seems anti-abortionist take extemist and terroristic type tactics against doctors/clinics and to me that takes away from their movement. To defend their actions is sad and unjustifyable no matter how u spin it.
I don't wanna get into this issue as I think there was a thread about this already..Pro-Choice is not Anti-Life.
I am anti-abortion and I am not extreme nor do I make terror type tactics. I believe thats what pro-choice wants America to believe that we all are extremists. Personally speaking I refuse to feel sorry for someone that commits murder on a child! Why don't you do some research to see what a late term abortion actually involves. I promise you that it will be traumatic. Any kind of abortion is disgusting, however this man chose to play GOD by aborting them so did his killer. Thats just how the cookie crumbles.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 03:35 PM
Happy to see I'm not the only one who feels his murder is, somewhat justified. He's been murdering for decades, so somebody killed him back. Another murderer gone.
Who said it was "somewhat Justified"

His Murder is indefensable. I'm astounded at the amount a Christians around who just seems to have a complete disregard for not only the law of the land, but also the Law of GOD

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 03:41 PM
Exactly.

The two men involved are not equatable. One is pure evil for the willful murder of babies, the other is on a crusade to stop said murders. They each had a mission, but one had a mission borne out of the human need to defend the defenseless innocence of the babies, while the other did so for an entirely different purpose.
So you think GOD sends people on crusades to break his own rules aswell??

Thats a very ISLAMIC way of thinking, and perish the though (if you pardon the pun) that you would believe such tripe as they put out to defend their horrors!! Because they use that crass excuse also. It a load of bollox.

GOD doesnt rank people in degrees of Evil...your either Perfect or Sinful. Why is it I'm the only one expressing the cold hard truthes here?

You dont Murder Babies, You dont Murder Doctors, you Dont murder Period. None of that is in ANYWAY justifyable, not EVER. GOD does not send his People on Crusades that break His own Laws, he does NOT demand the dessicration of Holy Ground...to say so just shows how...honnestly, wrong some people are.

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 03:45 PM
I am anti-abortion and I am not extreme nor do I make terror type tactics. .
Have you yet come out and condemned the killer of that Doctor? would you like me to go back and check? :huh:

Noone is saying that what the Doctor did was right...but noone should be saying that what the killer of the Doctor did is right either...nevermind what he's done.

You shouldnt be supporting Terrorism, and you shouldnt be attacking those who call out BOTH sides of this mess. So perhaps you can just make it clear that you dont support EITHER rather then attacking someone who rightly points out to justify ANY murder of ANYONE is so utterly wrong is unspeakably ugly to me :angry:

Spiritwalker
06-01-2009, 04:12 PM
HELLO!!!!

The taking of a life under the banner of "PRO LIFE", now that hypocrisy at its finest.

Spiritwalker
06-01-2009, 04:14 PM
Well.. no one was attributing him to being THE Pro Life movement.

I am sickened by "late term" abortions.. myself.

I am not "pro-life" or pro abortion..

No more hypocritical than attributing the actions of this one man to the entire Pro-Life movement.

Spiritwalker
06-01-2009, 04:17 PM
I wouldn't feel bad about a drug dealer who was gunned down in the street and I didn't feel bad for Jeffery Daumer when he was beaten to death in prison by his fellow inmates. Why should I cry for this man who profited from the death of children?

Never once did I endorse the murder of the doctor, I just don't feel bad about it.




Agreed. I was typing a long response when I scrolled down and saw this. Nicley put.

NateR
06-01-2009, 05:00 PM
Pretty F'd up thinking and a crappy mentality to have. I don't agree with late-term abortions(not sure there is a law that says it,and don't say gods law),and there are better ways to stop this.
It just seems anti-abortionist take extemist and terroristic type tactics against doctors/clinics and to me that takes away from their movement. To defend their actions is sad and unjustifyable no matter how u spin it.
I don't wanna get into this issue as I think there was a thread about this already..Pro-Choice is not Anti-Life.

No, Pro-choice is just pro-murder.

Don't attribute the actions of one man to an entire movement.

Miss Foxy
06-01-2009, 05:07 PM
Have you yet come out and condemned the killer of that Doctor? would you like me to go back and check? :huh:

Noone is saying that what the Doctor did was right...but noone should be saying that what the killer of the Doctor did is right either...nevermind what he's done.

You shouldnt be supporting Terrorism, and you shouldnt be attacking those who call out BOTH sides of this mess. So perhaps you can just make it clear that you dont support EITHER rather then attacking someone who rightly points out to justify ANY murder of ANYONE is so utterly wrong is unspeakably ugly to me :angry:
First of all Dave get your facts straight so do please re-read my posts! I have NEVER supported terrorism on any part! If all you that feel sorry for the baby killer read what we are saying its simply that he is not getting a simple condolence on our part. I have not attacked anyone so don't get all crazy with me. Im not a fake person therefore I am not going to pity someone who killed innocent babies. That is just not going to happen. I am not the perfect Christian nor do I proclaim to be I have a real sensitive side to babies thats all.

J.B.
06-01-2009, 10:57 PM
No, Pro-choice is just pro-murder.


Beat me to it...:laugh:

Tyburn
06-01-2009, 11:24 PM
No, Pro-choice is just pro-murder.

Don't attribute the actions of one man to an entire movement.
GOD grants Free will...why dont you :unsure-1:

I aggree, its murder...but GOD has given us all the choice between doing good and evil.

NateR
06-01-2009, 11:30 PM
GOD grants Free will...why dont you :unsure-1:

I aggree, its murder...but GOD has given us all the choice between doing good and evil.

Because unborn children cannot fight for their right to live, thus we need to do it for them.

Seriously, if you walked by an alleyway and saw a helpless old woman being beaten to death by street thugs, would you just chalk it up to their "free will" to commit murder and keep on walking?

cheachea
06-02-2009, 12:04 AM
OK guys, so what is the end of this ? We all wanted this guy to repent, be saved and for his soul to be with God when he died, but we have no sympathy for his death because he murdered the innocent. He did get what he deserved PERIOD. Both men involved where wrong, but the man who was murdered lived by the Sword and had Blood on his Hands, so that's why he was murdered. I'm not condoning it, I'm just giving the explination. Does this make sence ?

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:08 AM
OK guys, so what is the end of this ?

1)We all wanted this guy to repent, be saved and for his soul to be with God when he died, but we have no sympathy for his death because he murdered the innocent. He did get what he deserved PERIOD. Both men involved where wrong, but the man who was murdered lived by the Sword and had Blood on his Hands,

3)so that's why he was murdered. I'm not condoning it, I'm just giving the explination. Does this make sence ?
1) No problem with that

2) We are all sinners, we all deserve strictly speaking, to go to Hell

3) no, there was no cause and effect, he wasnt murdered, because he murdered in the strictest sense, not all murderers automatically end up being murdered by other murderers :laugh:

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:12 AM
Because unborn children cannot fight for their right to live, thus we need to do it for them.

Seriously, if you walked by an alleyway and saw a helpless old woman being beaten to death by street thugs, would you just chalk it up to their "free will" to commit murder and keep on walking?

One breaks the law of the land, one does not.

Make Abortion Illegal, like GBH and Assult, and that gives you your right...if you want to give babies rights against free will, you must make it so that an act of free will that kills is not just against GODs law (which we shouldnt, but which we are permitted via free will to break) but also against the Law of The Land (that would ensure that the repuccisons of the act of free will would carry a deterent that would vastly reduce the likelihood of it happening.

:)

cheachea
06-02-2009, 12:14 AM
He was unrepentant. He was at a Church for Crying Out Loud ! The guy was clearly out of God's will. He sacrificed babies to Demons, so Satan had control of both the murderers involved.

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:23 AM
He was unrepentant. He was at a Church for Crying Out Loud ! The guy was clearly out of God's will. He sacrificed babies to Demons, so Satan had control of both the murders involved.
He was into Abortions, thats cold blooded murder...its NOT sacrificial offerings. Nothing that he killed went anywhere near Lucifer...and Satan has no control over anything except that which GOD permits.

GOD VERY rarely permits dessicration.

He does...occasionally, tiz true...Jeremiah bore witness to a very distressing dessicration that GOD permited...but...Thats not the norm. GOD has only ever done it once or twice in History and its always been aimed at the Jews :unsure-1:

cheachea
06-02-2009, 12:26 AM
He unknowingly and inadvertently sacrificed these babies to Demons.

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 01:15 AM
He unknowingly and inadvertently sacrificed these babies to Demons.
No he didnt.

Children under the age of accountability (of which a pre-birth infant is absolutely guarenteed) go to Heaven

He killed them at the requests of the Mother Free will, and kept inside the Law of the Land.

Sacrifices cant be done by accident :blink:

cheachea
06-02-2009, 02:41 AM
No he didnt.


YES HE did PERIOD.

cheachea
06-02-2009, 02:54 AM
What I mean is, he was sacrificing these babies to the Demons that were pulling the strings of the people's lives that wanted to get the abortions. The Demons that are in control and influence of people's lives.

NateR
06-02-2009, 03:04 AM
OK guys, so what is the end of this ? We all wanted this guy to repent, be saved and for his soul to be with God when he died, but we have no sympathy for his death because he murdered the innocent. He did get what he deserved PERIOD. Both men involved where wrong, but the man who was murdered lived by the Sword and had Blood on his Hands, so that's why he was murdered. I'm not condoning it, I'm just giving the explination. Does this make sence ?

It makes perfect sense to me. But I believe it's being deliberately misinterpreted on here by those who are intentionally trying to smear the pro-life movement.

NateR
06-02-2009, 03:09 AM
One breaks the law of the land, one does not.

Make Abortion Illegal, like GBH and Assult, and that gives you your right...if you want to give babies rights against free will, you must make it so that an act of free will that kills is not just against GODs law (which we shouldnt, but which we are permitted via free will to break) but also against the Law of The Land (that would ensure that the repuccisons of the act of free will would carry a deterent that would vastly reduce the likelihood of it happening.

:)

Well, first of all, I didn't shoot this abortion doctor and I don't condone the act, because I fear it will only hurt the pro-life movement in the long run. So stop being a dumbass by pretending that I'm endorsing murder. I'm not talking about breaking the law. I'm talking about speaking out on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves. But you know that, you just delight in playing dumb to drag out a conversation.

All I said was that I'm not going to feel sorry for this child-murderer. At least he's out of the way and some children might have a chance at life who wouldn't have before.

MattHughesRocks
06-02-2009, 03:12 AM
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e292/skysrock/Smileys/thpopcorn.gif

cheachea
06-02-2009, 03:13 AM
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e292/skysrock/Smileys/thpopcorn.gif



LOL :laugh:

ufcfan2
06-02-2009, 04:12 AM
nm

J.B.
06-02-2009, 04:23 AM
I give up, lot of extremist attitudes when it comes to topics like this and everyone is wrong apparently unless u believe the samething.
Lets make it easy, you mind ur business and I mind mine? But it seems everyone wants to stick their noses, beliefs;religous and political in everyone elses. Heaven forbid we don't believe the samething or you get persecuted or car bombed or shot.
You got the gay marriage/abortion issue,and if u don't believe in the 'christian' ways ur wrong? WTF is that about? Are we forcing ppl to be christian now? I dont remember that being part of the constitution.
If ur against abortion thats fine,but to condone or approve in this act in anyways is being a hyprocrit. There are other ways to express your opinions on this matter.
You stated 'Don't attribute the actions of one man to an entire movement' and that works both ways. Not all Pro-Choicers are for abortion in every situation,maybe try asking some insteads of assuming. Least most Pro-Choicers are open minded and don't lean to violent acts to show their support.
Have anyof u asked a doctor,nurse,receptionist, and clerk why they work at one of those clinics????
Im outtie kindof had enought of the elitist attitudes here. If you don't believe like I do I condem you and god condems you,blah blah blah./sigh thats what some of u sound like..this is why I don't believe I see ppl pushing their religious views in a harsh way,and to me personally its pretty F'd up imo.

Dude, all he said was that Pro-Choice is equal to Pro-Murder. Christian or not, a lot of people see abortion as murder. YOU are the one making it about religion by assuming we are trying to force our beliefs down your throat. Nobody said anything about making you become a Christian. Seriously, grow up and calm down.

Pro-Choicers aren't violent? What do you call killing unborn babies? :rolleyes:

If you don't get that point of view thats your own problem, but nobody is saying anything about Christianity. WE ALSO DID NOT CONDONE THE MURDER OF DOCTOR, WE JUST HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM.

Black Mamba
06-02-2009, 04:28 AM
Dude you cannot codone this (I can understand if this gets removed):

http://mikeaustin.org/AAA/Partial%20Birth%20Abortion/PartialBirthAbortion.jpg

Even if you consider yourself pro-choice, there has to be a line. Doing late term abortions is nothing short of murder. As far as Iím concerned, this doctor got what he deserved. It sounds cruel, but look at what this guy did.

What must it be like to assist in such a procedure? One nurse tells her story:http://mikeaustin.org/current_affairs_and_war9.htm
In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience,
was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice,"
she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who
was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen.
The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving.
His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction,
like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up.
Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.
Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy.
It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

I gotta get back to work, or else Iíd debate this more. Iím to my yin yang with story problems.

ufcfan2
06-02-2009, 04:39 AM
Dude, all he said was that Pro-Choice is equal to Pro-Murder. Christian or not, a lot of people see abortion as murder. YOU are the one making it about religion by assuming we are trying to force our beliefs down your throat. Nobody said anything about making you become a Christian. Seriously, grow up and calm down.

Pro-Choicers aren't violent? What do you call killing unborn babies? :rolleyes:

If you don't get that point of view thats your own problem, but nobody is saying anything about Christianity. WE ALSO DID NOT CONDONE THE MURDER OF DOCTOR, WE JUST HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM.
O, your quick, I wanted to delete that paragraph,but hit submit by mistake..I like to reread my statement,then decide is it even worth posting it as ppl love to pick apart and prove you wrong...
Anywho, I'll take my ProChoice/Murdering butt outta here:happydancing:

Neezar
06-02-2009, 04:40 AM
He was into Abortions, thats cold blooded murder...its NOT sacrificial offerings. Nothing that he killed went anywhere near Lucifer...and Satan has no control over anything except that which GOD permits.

GOD VERY rarely permits dessicration.

He does...occasionally, tiz true...Jeremiah bore witness to a very distressing dessicration that GOD permited...but...Thats not the norm. GOD has only ever done it once or twice in History and its always been aimed at the Jews :unsure-1:

Do you wonder why he permitted here?

Neezar
06-02-2009, 04:41 AM
Dude you cannot codone this (I can understand if this gets removed):

http://mikeaustin.org/AAA/Partial%20Birth%20Abortion/PartialBirthAbortion.jpg

Even if you consider yourself pro-choice, there has to be a line. Doing late term abortions is nothing short of murder. As far as Iím concerned, this doctor got what he deserved. It sounds cruel, but look at what this guy did.

What must it be like to assist in such a procedure? One nurse tells her story:http://mikeaustin.org/current_affairs_and_war9.htm
In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience,
was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice,"
she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who
was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen.
The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving.
His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction,
like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up.
Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.
Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy.
It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

I gotta get back to work, or else Iíd debate this more. Iím to my yin yang with story problems.

Disgusting.

Vizion
06-02-2009, 04:44 AM
Dude you cannot codone this (I can understand if this gets removed):

http://mikeaustin.org/AAA/Partial%20Birth%20Abortion/PartialBirthAbortion.jpg

Even if you consider yourself pro-choice, there has to be a line. Doing late term abortions is nothing short of murder. As far as Iím concerned, this doctor got what he deserved. It sounds cruel, but look at what this guy did.

What must it be like to assist in such a procedure? One nurse tells her story:http://mikeaustin.org/current_affairs_and_war9.htm
In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience,
was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice,"
she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who
was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen.
The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving.
His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction,
like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up.
Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.
Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy.
It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

I gotta get back to work, or else Iíd debate this more. Iím to my yin yang with story problems.

OOOOOOOOO that makes me soo :censored: MAD! What fools they are...do they not know they will answer to the Living God for what they have done>???? They should rather mountains fall upon their heads than have to answer for their sins against God...

NateR
06-02-2009, 04:45 AM
I give up, lot of extremist attitudes when it comes to topics like this and everyone is wrong apparently unless u believe the samething.
Lets make it easy, you mind ur business and I mind mine? But it seems everyone wants to stick their noses, beliefs;religous and political in everyone elses. Heaven forbid we don't believe the samething or you get persecuted or car bombed or shot.
You got the gay marriage/abortion issue,and if u don't believe in the 'christian' ways ur wrong? WTF is that about? Are we forcing ppl to be christian now? I dont remember that being part of the constitution.
If ur against abortion thats fine,but to condone or approve in this act in anyways is being a hyprocrit. There are other ways to express your opinions on this matter.
You stated 'Don't attribute the actions of one man to an entire movement' and that works both ways. Not all Pro-Choicers are for abortion in every situation,maybe try asking some insteads of assuming. Least most Pro-Choicers are open minded and don't lean to violent acts to show their support.
Have anyof u asked a doctor,nurse,receptionist, and clerk why they work at one of those clinics????
Im outtie kindof had enought of the elitist attitudes here. If you don't believe like I do I condem you and god condems you,blah blah blah./sigh thats what some of u sound like..this is why I don't believe I see ppl pushing their religious views in a harsh way,and to me personally its pretty F'd up imo.

I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the stupider posts made on this forum. Like JB said, you are the one bringing religion into this with your closed mindedness.

Also, just look at the diagram that Black Mamba posted and tell me that Pro-Choice people are non-violent. They are slaughtering unborn children! That has nothing to do with any particular religion, it's just murder. Were we forcing our religion on Nazi Germany by putting an end to the Holocaust?

Finally, I don't know why you even bring the gay marriage debate into this. It just makes you sound like you are on some irrational rant that has no basis in logic or intelligence. You know that, which is why you tried to delete your own post. But you also should know that we're not going to let you get off that easily right? :laugh:

NateR
06-02-2009, 04:48 AM
Anywho, I'll take my ProChoice/Murdering butt outta here:happydancing:

Good riddance to bad rubbish, then. It takes a truly sick, perverse, and reprehensible person to make a joke out of something like this (especially after looking at the images illustrating what this man actually did). :angry:

Maybe someday you will realize just what a fool you look like right now.

J.B.
06-02-2009, 04:49 AM
O, your quick, I wanted to delete that paragraph,but hit submit by mistake..I like to reread my statement,then decide is it even worth posting it as ppl love to pick apart and prove you wrong...
Anywho, I'll take my ProChoice/Murdering butt outta here:happydancing:

Yes, people do read and respond when publicly post your opinions.

If you take personal offense to the fact many people view abortion as murder, then I am sorry for you. You are going to find that is the case with many people in this world. However, just because people have those views, it does not mean they are forcing their religion down your throat by saying it.

ufcfan2
06-02-2009, 04:51 AM
Dude you cannot codone this (I can understand if this gets removed):

http://mikeaustin.org/AAA/Partial%20Birth%20Abortion/PartialBirthAbortion.jpg

Even if you consider yourself pro-choice, there has to be a line. Doing late term abortions is nothing short of murder. As far as Iím concerned, this doctor got what he deserved. It sounds cruel, but look at what this guy did.

What must it be like to assist in such a procedure? One nurse tells her story:http://mikeaustin.org/current_affairs_and_war9.htm
In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience,
was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice,"
she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who
was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen.
The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving.
His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction,
like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up.
Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.
Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy.
It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

I gotta get back to work, or else Iíd debate this more. Iím to my yin yang with story problems.
I consider myself Pro-Choice(which I seem to be the minority on this website) and I do have lines.
-I don't agree in late-trimester abortions unless theres a serious issue to mother. Just me,if its between the life of my wife/girlfriend and the baby I choose my wife/girlfriend,but thats me.
-don't agree the use of abortion for birth control. Lack of education is the main issue imo.
-Rape/Incest; are the others reason, I don't want any women to carry a child after a heinous act and have to reminded of that act every day(which most likely will anyways).*I consider rape(child/women) the most heinous act against a women or child. Its one of those situations I can't stand to hear about or talk about or even watch on a film(movies that insinuate it). Ive never seen this act or know anyone who has,but its just one of those scenarios that gets to me.
-again mothers life is in danger and maybe a few select issues.
Whats ur guys views on the 'Morning After pill' sorry don't wanna hijack thread on the topic.

J.B.
06-02-2009, 04:51 AM
Good riddance to bad rubbish, then. It takes a truly sick, perverse, and reprehensible person to make a joke out of something like this (especially after looking at the images illustrating what this man actually did). :angry:

Maybe someday you will realize just what a fool you look like right now.

I was trying to be nice about it, but that's pretty much how I feel too :laugh:

ufcfan2
06-02-2009, 05:16 AM
I was trying to be nice about it, but that's pretty much how I feel too :laugh:


So, I put a :happydancing: after that remark in light of what Nate said, and now I'm rubbish,lol. okay, so when I lumped in as a murder I should get angry or something? nah, it got a good responce though did'nt it:wink: I guess I could get angry that I was called or associated as a murder,but whats that gonna prove nothing nor is calling names or being rude....

logrus
06-02-2009, 05:27 AM
You want to kill the doc thats fine I guess, but spin the chamber 1 more time and get the stupid c#$# who couldnt keep her legs crossed.

Edit: HEll spin it one more time and get the guy who couldnt keep it in his pants its only fair.

J.B.
06-02-2009, 05:31 AM
So, I put a :happydancing: after that remark in light of what Nate said, and now I'm rubbish,lol. okay, so when I lumped in as a murder I should get angry or something? nah, it got a good responce though did'nt it:wink: I guess I could get angry that I was called or associated as a murder,but whats that gonna prove nothing nor is calling names or being rude....

You put a dancing guy at the end of a "goodbye" rant... :laugh:

You can make arguments for extreme situations all you want, but that's not how a society formulates it's standards. MOST abortions are happening because of people just not wanting to have the child. Talking about extreme situations where the mother's life is in danger does not apply. People who are products of rape still deserve the same chance to live as you and I do, if the mother does not feel she can live with the reminder, then she should put the child up for adoption.

The only "choice" in the "Pro-Choice" movement is the one about choosing between being a responsible human being or a self-centered scumbag. Thats what this debate is really about, not the extremes. The heart of the pro-choice movement is not focused on giving rape victims a choice, it's focused on empowering feminists and denying that children have life from the moment of conception. It's really the ultimate slap in the face to God and everything that is natural if you ask me. Thats why most pro-choicers are liberals, they think THEY are in control of everything. Too bad many of them don't find out the truth until it's too late and they are burning in hell.

There, now I brought religion into it. :wink:

NateR
06-02-2009, 05:33 AM
You want to kill the doc thats fine I guess, but spin the chamber 1 more time and get the stupid c#$# who couldnt keep her legs crossed.

Edit: HEll spin it one more time and get the guy who couldnt keep it in his pants its only fair.

Again, NOBODY here is claiming that this guy did the right thing by shooting this abortion doctor. NOBODY is claiming that. NOBODY.

Do I need to say it again?:wink:

logrus
06-02-2009, 05:42 AM
Again, NOBODY here is claiming that this guy did the right thing by shooting this abortion doctor. NOBODY is claiming that. NOBODY.

Do I need to say it again?:wink:

I was talking along the lines of if you were to kill someone why always the middle man.

Besides i am really not seeing much commotion from you guys to bring this killer to justice lol. :tongue0011:

NateR
06-02-2009, 05:42 AM
You put a dancing guy at the end of a "goodbye" rant... :laugh:

You can make arguments for extreme situations all you want, but that's not how a society formulates it's standards. MOST abortions are happening because of people just not wanting to have the child. Talking about extreme situations where the mother's life is in danger does not apply. People who are products of rape still deserve the same chance to live as you and I do, if the mother does not feel she can live with the reminder, then she should put the child up for adoption.

The only "choice" in the "Pro-Choice" movement is the one about choosing between being a responsible human being or a self-centered scumbag. Thats what this debate is really about, not the extremes. The heart of the pro-choice movement is not focused on giving rape victims a choice, it's focused on empowering feminists and denying that children have life from the moment of conception. It's really the ultimate slap in the face to God and everything that is natural if you ask me. Thats why most pro-choicers are liberals, they think THEY are in control of everything. Too bad many of them don't find out the truth until it's too late and they are burning in hell.

There, now I brought religion into it. :wink:

Well said. :cool:

The pro-abortionists have a few things in common with Nazi Germany's extermination of the Jews:
1. both believe they are acting within the best interest of the general population
2. both believe that their victims are less than human, so it doesn't count as murder

NateR
06-02-2009, 05:45 AM
I was talking along the lines of if you were to kill someone why always the middle man.

Besides i am really not seeing much commotion from you guys to bring this killer to justice lol. :tongue0011:

Well, he's in police custody and he doesn't seem to be denying his crime, so there's not much to be in an uproar about. A court of law will determine his fate.

If the murderer is expecting to be labeled a hero, then I think he's more than a little misguided.

logrus
06-02-2009, 05:48 AM
Well said. :cool:

The pro-abortionists have a few things in common with Nazi Germany's extermination of the Jews:
1. both believe they are acting within the best interest of the general population
2. both believe that their victims are less than human, so it doesn't count as murder

You know my uncle on my Dads side was a Nazi soldier in a death camp right??

logrus
06-02-2009, 05:49 AM
Well, he's in police custody and he doesn't seem to be denying his crime, so there's not much to be in an uproar about. A court of law will determine his fate.

If the murderer is expecting to be labeled a hero, then I think he's more than a little misguided.

Knowing the system he will get a couple hundred hours of community service.

NateR
06-02-2009, 05:55 AM
You know my uncle on my Dads side was a Nazi soldier in a death camp right??

Which one? Because most of my dad's side of the family was wiped out in Auschwitz. They tried to flee Germany, but were turned back at Ellis Island, most of them were sent back to Germany to die in the death camps, a few settled in Mexico which is where my dad was born.

My dad was abandoned at an orphanage and adopted by a Mexican family, which is why we ended up with a hispanic sounding last name.

logrus
06-02-2009, 06:03 AM
Which one? Because most of my dad's side of the family was wiped out in Auschwitz. They tried to flee Germany, but were turned back at Ellis Island, most of them were sent back to Germany to die in the death camps, a few settled in Mexico which is where my dad was born.

My dad was abandoned at an orphanage and adopted by a Mexican family, which is why we ended up with a hispanic sounding last name.

Sadly I don't remember the exact name of the camp. I have been trying to find a journal I kept on the information. My uncles journal is with my dads side of the family that has not spoken to use in over 20 years.

From what I learned at the time was he was given an option to serve or watch his family and then him be slaughtered. As for my dad he was lucky enough to flee Germany and arrived on Ellis Island and stayed at a refugee camp until he and his brothers and sisters were able to move. The moved and settled down in Chicago IL.

Bonnie
06-02-2009, 08:08 AM
You want to kill the doc thats fine I guess, but spin the chamber 1 more time and get the stupid c#$# who couldnt keep her legs crossed.

Edit: HEll spin it one more time and get the guy who couldnt keep it in his pants its only fair.

WOW! How generous of you to "edit" in the guy, Logrus. Yeah, it is only FAIR afterall isn't it? I mean the "stupid c***" (and we all know what you're calling her) is spreading her legs but then there is the "stupid dick" (my words) happily spreading his seed except when he's told he's gonna be a DADDY! And we all know what happens then in most of these cases don't we. Well, of course, they MAN UP and take RESPONSIBILITY! NOT!!!

Oh, yeah, I forget....he's the STUD and she's just the SLUT!

So, you're right we shouldn't start at the abortion clinic, we need to go back a little further and start doing some "chopping" and "fixing" at the real source. Good thinking, Logrus! :happy0159:

David_Banner
06-02-2009, 10:52 AM
only the one who took it on board to shoot him. :mellow:

For you and me,yeah, but for those that view actions like this as further proof of the failings of that crazy christianity, no. Sadly, its easy for mass media to lump us all together.

J.B.
06-02-2009, 12:13 PM
Which one? Because most of my dad's side of the family was wiped out in Auschwitz. They tried to flee Germany, but were turned back at Ellis Island, most of them were sent back to Germany to die in the death camps, a few settled in Mexico which is where my dad was born.

My dad was abandoned at an orphanage and adopted by a Mexican family, which is why we ended up with a hispanic sounding last name.

That is crazy.

My ex was straight off the boat from Poland (she actually came by plane, but whatever). Her grandfather was taken outside and shot in the head in front of the whole family by Nazi's when the Germans invaded Poland.

Come to think of it, I don't know much about my family's history outside of this country. I know I am part German on my Mom's side, but my Dad's side has been spread all over the south for generations, other than that I don't know much my family tree and I never really gave it much thought.

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:42 PM
What I mean is, he was sacrificing these babies to the Demons that were pulling the strings of the people's lives that wanted to get the abortions. The Demons that are in control and influence of people's lives.
You mean he was influenced by demons...well....thats NOT the same as what you said. We are all influenced by Demons, and we all often sin because of those naughty thoughts that stray through our mind...that doesnt mean the sin is any sacrificial offering to them...its just sinful pollution.

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Well, first of all, I didn't shoot this abortion doctor and I don't condone the act, because I fear it will only hurt the pro-life movement in the long run. So stop being a dumbass by pretending that I'm endorsing murder. I'm not talking about breaking the law. I'm talking about speaking out on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves. But you know that, you just delight in playing dumb to drag out a conversation.

All I said was that I'm not going to feel sorry for this child-murderer. At least he's out of the way and some children might have a chance at life who wouldn't have before.

I wish you had said that first :)

Did you endorse Murder? no...but you didnt really condemn it until I pushed :rolleyes:

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Do you wonder why he permitted here?
I dont believe he did :ninja:

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:47 PM
I was trying to be nice about it, but that's pretty much how I feel too :laugh:
thank you for your effort :)

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Again, NOBODY here is claiming that this guy did the right thing by shooting this abortion doctor. NOBODY is claiming that. NOBODY.

Do I need to say it again?:wink:
:ninja: yes....because it took you so long to say it in the first place :laugh:

Your first words on the subject should have been that whilst you understand and empathize with the shooter, you do NOT condone the actions. But you stopped short of saying that, when I pushed you said you didnt feel sorry for the doctor, then when I pushed again, finally you actually come out and say it.

Please...say it one more time :laugh:

btw...I heard in the newspaper they think they got the guy already :ninja:

Miss Foxy
06-02-2009, 02:49 PM
You know my uncle on my Dads side was a Nazi soldier in a death camp right??
Who the freak cares?! My moms family has some monsters that were Nazi's also so what are you getting at? I personally think its nothing to be proud of. I am glad most of my family fled Germany. Similar to Nate they came through Mexico.

Miss Foxy
06-02-2009, 02:52 PM
:ninja: yes....because it took you so long to say it in the first place :laugh:

Your first words on the subject should have been that whilst you understand and empathize with the shooter, you do NOT condone the actions. But you stopped short of saying that, when I pushed you said you didnt feel sorry for the doctor, then when I pushed again, finally you actually come out and say it.

Please...say it one more time :laugh:

btw...I heard in the newspaper they think they got the guy already :ninja:
Don't give yourself credit that you pushed him? How? By him having to clearly repeat over and over that no one is condoning this act? You and a few others were just soon to jump on the topic without thoroughly reading the posts.

ufcfan2
06-02-2009, 04:06 PM
You put a dancing guy at the end of a "goodbye" rant... :laugh:

You can make arguments for extreme situations all you want, but that's not how a society formulates it's standards. MOST abortions are happening because of people just not wanting to have the child. Talking about extreme situations where the mother's life is in danger does not apply. People who are products of rape still deserve the same chance to live as you and I do, if the mother does not feel she can live with the reminder, then she should put the child up for adoption.

The only "choice" in the "Pro-Choice" movement is the one about choosing between being a responsible human being or a self-centered scumbag. Thats what this debate is really about, not the extremes. The heart of the pro-choice movement is not focused on giving rape victims a choice, it's focused on empowering feminists and denying that children have life from the moment of conception. It's really the ultimate slap in the face to God and everything that is natural if you ask me. Thats why most pro-choices are liberals, they think THEY are in control of everything. Too bad many of them don't find out the truth until it's too late and they are burning in hell.

There, now I brought religion into it. :wink:
Thats fine ur opinion,but you're not giving me or any other Pro-Choice advocate any credit or any chance to express our views. You automatically assume I'm all for abortion and your far from the truth. You haven't bothered to ask me my personal opinions on abortion and why I'm for it and its more than just about irresponsible adults.
I believe I've expressed my views on where I draw the line on abortion. I also don't believe in absolute laws that gives noone an option. You have to have options to give ppl or ur just becoming another dictator. I don't believe in cut'ndry laws on this as I do believe in special circumstances(as i've stated in earlier posts).
- Control: the act or power of controlling; regulation; domination or command: Who's in control here?
the situation of being under the regulation, domination, or command of another.
To reiterate for the 1000th time:
-dont believe in using abortion for birth control,this happens from lack of education and lazy men/women for not using the pill/condoms etc.
-dont believe in late-term abortions
-abortion in Rape/Incest/Life of Mother in jeapordy are about the only acceptable cases for abortion. Maybe a few extreme circumstances other than listed that would be okay,but have to be extreme.

Crisco
06-02-2009, 04:29 PM
Thats fine ur opinion,but you're not giving me or any other Pro-Choice advocate any credit or any chance to express our views. You automatically assume I'm all for abortion and your far from the truth. You haven't bothered to ask me my personal opinions on abortion and why I'm for it and its more than just about irresponsible adults.
I believe I've expressed my views on where I draw the line on abortion. I also don't believe in absolute laws that gives noone an option. You have to have options to give ppl or ur just becoming another dictator. I don't believe in cut'ndry laws on this as I do believe in special circumstances(as i've stated in earlier posts).
There are Pro-Life/Pro-Choice who believe in the same 'line' to when abortion is acceptable and not, its just the way or how they go about it. Sadthing for both sides is the 'extremist' get most of the attention and seems to be no common ground. There is a happy medium to this,but to some there is an all or nothing mentality,and thats not the way to go.
Other issue is where is gonna stop? If abortion becomes illegal then whats next on the 'big brother' agenda. Seriously,whats next we can't have sex w/condoms as ur preventing life from happening(okay thats a stretch,but you know theres one nut who probably thinks it).

He's called the pope. HA!

NateR
06-02-2009, 05:26 PM
Other issue is where is gonna stop? If abortion becomes illegal then whats next on the 'big brother' agenda. Seriously,whats next we can't have sex w/condoms as ur preventing life from happening(okay thats a stretch,but you know theres one nut who probably thinks it).

So, we're restricting people's rights by firmly stating that you should not be allowed to murder your own children? :blink: You claim that we're not giving you a chance to fully express your views, then you go and make some stupid remark like this one and prove that you are the real closed-minded one in this discussion. Try thinking before typing next time (instead of relying so much on the edit function :tongue0011: ).

I've gone over the science involved in abortion many times in different threads. There is no doubt that, scientifically speaking, life begins at conception not at birth.

Anyways, you're accusations of "legislating morality" are pointless. This has nothing to do with morality, it's about life and death. But at least we're in good company, the Abolitionists were also accused of legislating morality when they fought to end slavery in America.

Miss Foxy
06-02-2009, 05:58 PM
Dude you cannot codone this (I can understand if this gets removed):

http://mikeaustin.org/AAA/Partial%20Birth%20Abortion/PartialBirthAbortion.jpg

Even if you consider yourself pro-choice, there has to be a line. Doing late term abortions is nothing short of murder. As far as Iím concerned, this doctor got what he deserved. It sounds cruel, but look at what this guy did.

What must it be like to assist in such a procedure? One nurse tells her story:http://mikeaustin.org/current_affairs_and_war9.htm
In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience,
was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice,"
she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who
was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen.
The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving.
His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction,
like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up.
Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.
Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy.
It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

I gotta get back to work, or else Iíd debate this more. Iím to my yin yang with story problems.
Thank You Danielle
As mad and sad it makes me to look at this maybe it will help some of our forum members that are pro-choice see how sickening this really is. I cannot believe that a person could perform such a procedure. To think that these babies could have survived :sad:

Bonnie
06-02-2009, 07:15 PM
I agree with Nate, birth starts at conception. This diagram and that nurse's tale is just horrifying and heartbreaking. We all need to "see" this and not hide our heads in the sand about what happens to the baby, that human life. :cry:

cheachea
06-02-2009, 07:43 PM
You mean he was influenced by demons...well....thats NOT the same as what you said. We are all influenced by Demons, and we all often sin because of those naughty thoughts that stray through our mind...that doesnt mean the sin is any sacrificial offering to them...its just sinful pollution.

Tyburn, so you don't think these babies were sacrificed to the demons that were influencing the doctor and these people's lives ?

logrus
06-02-2009, 07:57 PM
WOW! How generous of you to "edit" in the guy, Logrus. Yeah, it is only FAIR afterall isn't it? I mean the "stupid c***" (and we all know what you're calling her) is spreading her legs but then there is the "stupid dick" (my words) happily spreading his seed except when he's told he's gonna be a DADDY! And we all know what happens then in most of these cases don't we. Well, of course, they MAN UP and take RESPONSIBILITY! NOT!!!

Oh, yeah, I forget....he's the STUD and she's just the SLUT!

So, you're right we shouldn't start at the abortion clinic, we need to go back a little further and start doing some "chopping" and "fixing" at the real source. Good thinking, Logrus! :happy0159:

I was typing it and switched Mp3 files and when I came back it send. So I went back an edited. I still think if your gonna punish the doc, might as well follow the line to its original source immature people.

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 08:22 PM
He's called the pope. HA!
Indeed. Benedict is against all forms of contraceptive. You only have sex when you want babies, and woe betide you if you do so outside of marriage :ninja:

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 08:35 PM
Tyburn, so you don't think these babies were sacrificed to the demons that were influencing the doctor and these people's lives ?
No, Cheachea, I do not believe those babies were sacrificed to the Demons influencing the Doctor or Mothers decisions.

Sacrifice is done with intent, it is also supposed to be painful. To sacrifice in this case would be to HAVE the child when you didnt want it. THAT would be a sacrificial statement, because its a choice where something is bourne. There is no sacrifice in killing a Baby that you dont want anyway...maybe if the Mother WANTED to keep the Baby and the Doctor still aborted it against her will, THAT would be sacrificial.

GOD outlines the sort of Sacrificies he wants, and I mentioned a few in the other thread about the Law, it made some Patrons a little bit uncomfortable. Sacrifices to Demons have happened in the past...might be a film, but the culture it depicts, in very hard times (like the collapse of The Empires infrastructure due to climate change) would actually execute people in a ceremony to appease demons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_99mcINufQ (You might ask where is the pain in executing a prisoner? but you may have skipped over the value of the phrase "warrior" and "Willing" you see, they are supposed to sacrifice their own Troops in such manner, THAT is the personal cost to them. Ironically, they would use other tribal warriors...thus...no real burden for them in their Sacrifice...)

Please dont tell me you celebrate Halloween...do you know anything about that Pagen Festival? Its the Celebration of Sam Hein, a demon who must be appeased with blood offerings...thats why people dress up as Evil on that night. THAT is closer to sacrificial worship of a Demon then what the Abortionist Doctor did



Finally, Although something can be sacrificed to evil, that Evil doesnt take anything from the sacrifice. If the Sacrifice is Christian, the Souls are the possession of Christ, not the Devil irrespective of the manner and intent behind their death. If they are Heathen, then the Devil gets no more then he would if they had died a natural death. Try to understand, Sacrifice, is between the diety (GOD, or a Demon) and the person conducting the Sacrifice....it does not really involve the Sacrifice itself....Think of when GOD asked Abraham to sacrifice Issiac....He wasnt doing it for Issiacs sake, neither was he bothered about Issiac, as opposed to any only son...The thing GOD was interested in was Abraham...the one performing the Ceremony...same with Aaron and the Priests....the Ceremonies arent any good in themselves...you or I cant just do them...they need to be done by certain people...the Priests are more important then the ceremony and whats being sacrificed.

So no. This has absolutely nothing to do with sacrifice...and probably very little to do with demons.

cheachea
06-02-2009, 09:13 PM
I believe you are wrong on this Tyburn, but you are still a cool dude.:)

Jason 16
06-02-2009, 09:19 PM
Since when does The Lord send His people to break His own Law? :rolleyes:

GOD has no need to work like some kinda rougue terrorist :angry:

naw its more like final destination ......... jking

Tyburn
06-02-2009, 09:37 PM
I believe you are wrong on this Tyburn, but you are still a cool dude.:)
:laugh: Then we will aggree to dissagree :)

cheachea
06-02-2009, 09:42 PM
:laugh: Then we will aggree to dissagree :)

Sounds good to me . :)

Hughes_GOAT
06-08-2009, 05:50 PM
can i send a gift basket to the shooter?

Neezar
06-09-2009, 05:07 AM
:laugh:

MattHughesRocks
06-09-2009, 05:21 AM
That was me. I'll PM you my address. I like choclate and perfume.Expensive chocolate and perfume :)


can i send a gift basket to the shooter?

Hughes_GOAT
06-09-2009, 05:52 AM
as long as it's not SF

rockdawg21
06-09-2009, 02:27 PM
Pretty F'd up thinking and a crappy mentality to have. I don't agree with late-term abortions(not sure there is a law that says it,and don't say gods law),and there are better ways to stop this.
It just seems anti-abortionist take extemist and terroristic type tactics against doctors/clinics and to me that takes away from their movement. To defend their actions is sad and unjustifyable no matter how u spin it.
I don't wanna get into this issue as I think there was a thread about this already..Pro-Choice is not Anti-Life.
Sorry, late reply.

Just depends how you look at it. Pro-Choice is Pro-Murder IMO. The extremists represent a minority, but I'd rather see 1 man murdered than allow him to murder hundreds or thousands of lives who are unable to defend themselves.

Say you were walking down the street and you saw a small child or old person being beaten by a strong adult, I seriously doubt you'd just walk by and ignore it thinking, "well, it's that person's CHOICE to beat those people."

rockdawg21
06-09-2009, 02:39 PM
can i send a gift basket to the shooter?
Here you go :laugh:

https://ssc.sedgwickcounty.org/sheriffinmates/SheriffInmateDetail.aspx?nameId=399435

http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/sheriff/detention_faq.asp
Inmate mail ó All mail should be addressed to the inmate in care of the Sedgwick County Detention Facility, 141 West Elm, Wichita, Kansas 67203.

All mail must be properly addressed with identification information to clearly identify the inmate in custody.

Mail will be returned to sender if information is insufficient to reasonably determine the identity of the inmate for whom it is intended.

Mail addressed to persons - no longer in custody will be returned to sender.

Cashiers checks, money orders, and attorney trust checks will be accepted. Cash or personal checks will not be accepted but returned to sender.

Mail that is addressed to inmates no longer in custody will be stamped "Return to Sender, Inmate No Longer in Custody". Mail returned to sender because of unacceptable mailed items or contraband will include a note stating the reason.

All non-privileged mail will be opened and checked for contraband prior to delivery to inmate.

Privileged mail must have official markings on outside of envelope/stamped privileged mail and will be opened in the presence of the inmate and checked for contraband but will not be censored.

Newspaper and magazine subscriptions will be accepted provided they are mailed directly from publisher; and do not include nudity, obscenity or subversive material.

Packages mailed to inmates will not be accepted, but will be returned to sender unopened.

Contraband items listed below will not be distributed to the inmate if received through the mail.

Adhesive tape, aerosol cans, aluminum cans or foil, bar soap, batteries, candy or food items, cigarettes/lights/matches, cosmetics, hair products, medical products, hygiene items, credit card, ID cards, keys, jewelry, nude or partial nude or obscene photos of men, women or children, pens, pencils, marking pens, art supplies, records, or tapes, electronic equipment devices, all occasion greeting cards (musical cards), playing cards, games, plastic bags, wrap, wire, metal, plastic objects, string, twine, plastic line, correspondence to an inmate other than addressee, narcotics, intoxicating beverage and drugs, weapons or plans for their manufacture, perishable goods (food or beverage), items not included on the list of authorized possession issued to inmates or purchased through commissary, any item that threatens safety, security, or good order of the facility, issued items that have been altered, money or jewelry, Polaroid Photographs.

Other items not listed may also be excluded from distribution if they are considered a security risk.

rockdawg21
06-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Another doctor fears he's next. He's been doing late-term abortions since 1975, he sucks.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7722869&page=1

Another Abortion Doc Says He Fears He's Next
Authorities Say Security Has Been Increased Near Boulder Clinic

By LAUREN SHER, SARAH NETTER, BRIAN COHEN and EMILY FRIEDMAN
June 1, 2009

One of the few remaining late-term abortion providers in the country told ABCNews.com that he fears he could be "next" following this weekend's murder of controversial abortion doctor George Tiller.

"Every doctor who performs abortions is on the list," said Dr. Warren Hern about the names of doctors willing to perform the procedure he says anti-abortionist groups track and publicize.

Hern's Boulder Abortion Clinic has been specializing in late-term abortions since it was founded in 1975.

"I'm appalled and shocked by this assassination, but I'm not surprised," Hern said of Tiller's death. "This is not the single act of a deranged gunman. This is the absolutely predictable result of 35 years of anti-abortion harassment."

"Tiller's death is what they want to happen," said Hern, who declined to specify on the degree to which security at his clinic has been ramped up since Tiller's murder on Sunday.

Sarah Huntley, a spokeswoman for the Boulder Police Department, said that there have been an increased number of patrol cars sent to monitor the areas near Hern's house and clinic since Tiller's death.

But perhaps more telling, said Huntley, is that most of the security responsibilities concerning Hern and his staff have been handed over to the U.S. Marshall Service, a move she deems "unusual."

A spokesman for the U.S. Marshall Service told ABCNews.com that it is against their policy to comment on protective details.

Hughes_GOAT
06-11-2009, 02:47 AM
good, take him out too!

Vizion
06-11-2009, 03:01 AM
Tiller said once "Abortion is worth going to hell for".

I wonder if he still believes that.

Hughes_GOAT
06-11-2009, 03:10 AM
it's quotes like that, that let us see just how insane thes docs are.