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rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 05:52 PM
Obama's Oval Office Hypocrisy
By Steven Milloy, JunkScience.com
January 29, 2009

The New York Times reported this morning that,

The capital flew into a bit of a tizzy when, on his first full day in the White House, President Obama was photographed in the Oval Office without his suit jacket. There was, however, a logical explanation: Mr. Obama, who hates the cold, had cranked up the thermostat.

"He's from Hawaii, O.K.?" said Mr. Obama's senior adviser, David Axelrod, who occupies the small but strategically located office next door to his boss. "He likes it warm. You could grow orchids in there."

Could this be the same Barack Obama who said last May that,

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times... and then just expect that other countries are going to say "OK"... That's not leadership. That's not going to happen."

And could this be the same Barack Obama who is looking to sign a stimulus bill that would spend billions of dollars installing millions "smart meters" that would enable your power company to prevent you from being as comfortable as Bambi on hot and cold days?

While Bambi is warm-and-toasty in the Oval Office, is he considering the plight of Michigan's Marvin Schur, a 93-year World War II veteran, who was recently found frozen to death courtesy of a malfunctioning electricity "limiter" device installed by his power company?

Change has come to Washington. Elitism is dead. Long live elitism.
Nice to know our President is nice and toasty while a war veteran, a person who's actually ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING for our country, froze to death in his own home. Reminds me of Al Gore and his very large utility bill.

NateR
01-29-2009, 06:18 PM
It's the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I've gotten used to this kind of thing from Democratic leaders.

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 06:36 PM
Hey Nate, I thought all this negativity about any US president wasn't going to be allowed to be posted or tolerated? I know you said that it wasn't .. If someone was making threads like this about GWB they would have been erased ...

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 06:55 PM
It's not negativity. He positively is a hypocrite!

NateR
01-29-2009, 06:59 PM
Hey Nate, I thought all this negativity about any US president wasn't going to be allowed to be posted or tolerated? I know you said that it wasn't .. If someone was making threads like this about GWB they would have been erased ...

It's the title of the actual article and I never said that negativity wouldn't be allowed, just obvious cases of slander or libel. In other words, Obama cranking up the heat for the Oval Office, while telling Americans that they can't be allowed to keep their homes heated to 72 degrees all the time, IS hypocrisy, that's just reporting the facts and illustrating that Obama's words and his actions don't always match up.

Jonlion
01-29-2009, 08:19 PM
I have got to say that this is an unfair thing to pull on the man.

He likes to be warm in his office, fair enough, im sure you all want the best conditions for the man in charge of running the country.

To then put this by the WW2 Veteran freezing to death is a little emotive. Its a terrible thing to happen but im sure that this thing that malfunction wasnt Obama's fault.

Was it Obama's direct policy that meant this man had this limiter?


Where was his family or friends, if he was incapicitated is there no homecare to ensure he doesnt freeze.

I just think this is a long call to call Obama a president.

Looks like throwing dirt to me when unwarrented.

Jonlion
01-29-2009, 08:24 PM
Well whislt i think its tough to criticise him for this, missing the Ball for people collecting Medals of Honour is pretty scandalous.

I will say these preening celebreties that have posistioned themselves by Obama like sycoophantic pigs annoy the hell out of me.

I usually lose a lot of time for any entertainers who get involved in politics from a distance, Bono, Chrism Martin, Madonna, De Caprio, do what you are good at and leave political statements to people that know and are serious about it!

Crisco
01-29-2009, 08:24 PM
It's the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I've gotten used to this kind of thing from Democratic leaders.

And you haven't done the same with republican leaders aswell?

Politicians are all dirty. Thats why they are politicians.

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 08:29 PM
And you haven't done the same with republican leaders aswell?

Politicians are all dirty. Thats why they are politicians.

No Dubya is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths and thousands of US Soldier deaths but that is ok ... Obama is indirectly (but probably not even) responsible for a frozen vet and he is a beast .. LOL ... love how the republican's love to skew things ...

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 08:37 PM
I have got to say that this is an unfair thing to pull on the man.

He likes to be warm in his office, fair enough, im sure you all want the best conditions for the man in charge of running the country.

To then put this by the WW2 Veteran freezing to death is a little emotive. Its a terrible thing to happen but im sure that this thing that malfunction wasnt Obama's fault.

Was it Obama's direct policy that meant this man had this limiter?


Where was his family or friends, if he was incapicitated is there no homecare to ensure he doesnt freeze.

I just think this is a long call to call Obama a president.

Looks like throwing dirt to me when unwarrented.
I haven't any problems with the guy being warm, we all should be. However, Obama currently wants to pass legislation that does to every house and business in the U.S., exactly what happened to this old man - puts a limiter on their energy output. Meanwhile, Obama will have a nice cozy office while his energy legislation will force businesses to limit energy expenditures, thus, decreasing productivity (studies have proven productivity in certain temperature ranges) and people to freeze (to death in some cases) in their homes.

Furthermore, there was no malfunction of the machine. It did its' purpose - turning off the energy to the guy's house while the temperature was well below freezing outside.

Really, forget about the guy who died. Obama deliberately says we can't keep our homes at 72, yet he has the temperature well above 72. That's hypocrisy and as our President, he should be leading by example.

NateR
01-29-2009, 08:40 PM
No Dubya is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths and thousands of US Soldier deaths but that is ok ...

That's exactly the kind of garbage that I'm talking about when I say "slander and libel." This statement perfectly illustrates just how over the top and out of touch with reality the Bush-bashers are.

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 08:42 PM
No Dubya is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths and thousands of US Soldier deaths but that is ok ... Obama is indirectly (but probably not even) responsible for a frozen vet and he is a beast .. LOL ... love how the republican's love to skew things ...
Didn't NateR just make a point about posting slander and libel?

County Mike
01-29-2009, 08:42 PM
I've heard that black people really don't like the cold. I don't blame them. I hate the cold too. Maybe I need to check my family tree.

(I set my thermostat between 65-69 but wouldn't mind being warmer.)

Jonlion
01-29-2009, 08:43 PM
I haven't any problems with the guy being warm, we all should be. However, Obama currently wants to pass legislation that does to every house and business in the U.S., exactly what happened to this old man - puts a limiter on their energy output. Meanwhile, Obama will have a nice cozy office while his energy legislation will force businesses to limit energy expenditures, thus, decreasing productivity (studies have proven productivity in certain temperature ranges) and people to freeze (to death in some cases) in their homes.

Furthermore, there was no malfunction of the machine. It did its' purpose - turning off the energy to the guy's house while the temperature was well below freezing outside.

Really, forget about the guy who died. Obama deliberately says we can't keep our homes at 72, yet he has the temperature well above 72. That's hypocrisy and as our President, he should be leading by example.

I appreciate that but then my old man always told me, Do as i say, not as i do!


ha ha And i didnt like that i guess!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 08:46 PM
I appreciate that but then my old man always told me, Do as i say, not as i do!


ha ha And i didnt like that i guess!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:
LOL, I've heard that from some of them old guys before. I'm happy it's gone but it sure looks like that style is coming back now! :frantics:

NateR
01-29-2009, 08:48 PM
He likes to be warm in his office, fair enough, im sure you all want the best conditions for the man in charge of running the country.

In America, our leaders aren't treated like royalty, they are treated like public servants. I can understand the English mentality, though. You guys are used to a monarchy and are considered servants of the Queen. In the US, it's just the opposite, the government answers to the people, not the other way around.


Really, forget about the guy who died. Obama deliberately says we can't keep our homes at 72, yet he has the temperature well above 72. That's hypocrisy and as our President, he should be leading by example.

That's exactly the point, the WW2 vet who died is a tragic case; but should be treated as a isolated incident. If it had happened in Illinois, then you could make a case for Obama being partly responsible; but it was in Michigan and just shows a flaw in the system that Obama is touting.

The mentality he seems to have (we should be ready to sacrifice some comfort, but he shouldn't have to) just makes him seem a little elitist. Just because he got elected President doesn't make him better than the average American. If he expects us to do without in order to "save the environment," then he should set the example and be willing to do the same.

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 08:50 PM
That's exactly the point, the WW2 vet who died is a tragic case; but should be treated as a isolated incident. If it had happened in Illinois, then you could make a case for Obama being partly responsible; but it was in Michigan and just shows a flaw in the system that Obama is touting.

The mentality he seems to have (we should be ready to sacrifice some comfort, but he shouldn't have to) just makes him seem a little elitist. Just because he got elected President doesn't make him better than the average American. If he expects us to do without in order to "save the environment," then he should set the example and be willing to do the same.
:sign0081: :sign0011: :party0006:

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 08:53 PM
That's exactly the kind of garbage that I'm talking about when I say "slander and libel." This statement perfectly illustrates just how over the top and out of touch with reality the Bush-bashers are.


Did he not lead the US into the second Iraq war even when he was told by the UN and other nations that he shouldn't ? if he is responsible for the fall of saddam and his regime, should he not also be responsible for the casualties that come about by it? that is not slander ...

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 09:00 PM
Did he not lead the US into the second Iraq war even when he was told by the UN and other nations that he shouldn't ? if he is responsible for the fall of saddam and his regime, should he not also be responsible for the casualties that come about by it? that is not slander ...
The above is an improper misrepresentation and defaming of character, which is the definition of libel.

That's like saying if a person was drunk drinking a Budweiser product, got into an accident, and killed a person, that it's the fault of Budweiser for having made the product.

Or, if a person gets into an accident driving 50 miles per hour in a 40 mph zone, a car pulls out in front of them and they're unable to stop in time, that it's the fault of the tire manufacturer because the tires failed to stop the car.

It's slander, it's libel, and complete BS. Any case like that would be immediately dismissed by a court. Or the case you're trying to make against Bush - it would be dismissed by a judge.

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 09:03 PM
That's like saying if a person was drunk drinking a Budweiser product, got into an accident, and killed a person, that it's the fault of Budweiser for having made the product.

Or, if a person gets into an accident driving 50 miles per hour in a 40 mph zone, a car pulls out in front of them and they're unable to stop in time, that it's the fault of the tire manufacturer because the tires failed to stop the car.

It's slander, it's libel, and complete BS. Any case like that would be immediately dismissed by a court. Or the case you're trying to make against Bush - it would be dismissed by a judge.

so how can a poorly installed temperature limiter malfuntioning and tragically killing a vet, or yesterday post of a man killing his family be blamed on obama? is that not slander or libel then?

who knows if the vet installed it to save money? who knows if the company who hired the technician hired an unqualified tech? who knows if the man who killed his famly had serious mental issues ?

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 09:10 PM
so how can a poorly installed temperature limiter malfuntioning and tragically killing a vet, or yesterday post of a man killing his family be blamed on obama? is that not slander or libel then?

who knows if the vet installed it to save money? who knows if the company who hired the technician hired an unqualified tech? who knows if the man who killed his famly had serious mental issues ?
Nobody posted that Obama was involved. Doing so such as saying he was involved directly or indirectly would be libel and slander.

Let's say for example that Obama's energy legislation passes. An entire family in New York dies during winter 2010 because their power has been turned off. Then somebody tries to blame their deaths on Obama. That's libel and slander. You're trying to say the exact thing about Bush - that it's his fault Iraqi's and American's died because he declared war on Iraq. That's libel and slander! Do you understand the meaning now?

Besides, the topic of this thread is HYPOCRISY. Obama says we can't have our temperatures at 72 in our homes, yet, he's in an office that's much hotter. The man's power was limited in his home due to using too much energy, yet, Obama can keep his temperature high in the White House. It's hypocrisy and as President of the United States, he should be leading by example.

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 09:16 PM
Nobody posted that Obama was involved. Doing so such as saying he was involved directly or indirectly would be libel and slander.

Let's say for example that Obama's energy legislation passes. An entire family in New York dies during winter 2010 because their power has been turned off. Then somebody tries to blame their deaths on Obama. That's libel and slander. You're trying to say the exact thing about Bush - that it's his fault Iraqi's and American's died because he declared war on Iraq. That's libel and slander! Do you understand the meaning now?

Besides, the topic of this thread is HYPOCRISY. Obama says we can't have our temperatures at 72 in our homes, yet, he's in an office that's much hotter. The man's power was limited in his home due to using too much energy, yet, Obama can keep his temperature high in the White House. It's hypocrisy and as President of the United States, he should be leading by example.

So if Obama signs an act that allows abortions more then they already are, do you feel that the blood of those children are on him? would he be fair game to be called a murderer? i have already seen people post on here that have done that and no cries from anyone saying that it is libel or slander

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 09:22 PM
So if Obama signs an act that allows abortions more then they already are, do you feel that the blood of those children are on him? would he be fair game to be called a murderer? i have already seen people post on here that have done that and no cries from anyone saying that it is libel or slander
No, but I believe it's morally wrong especially coming from a man who claims to be a Christian - that's between him and God - he'll get his day. And yes, that would be libel and slander, but I guess I haven't found that thread or discussion.

rearnakedchoke
01-29-2009, 09:28 PM
No, but I believe it's morally wrong especially coming from a man who claims to be a Christian - that's between him and God - he'll get his day. And yes, that would be libel and slander, but I guess I haven't found that thread or discussion.
the post right under yours Obama was called a "killer"
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3001#post3001
i agree, it is a moral wrong .. and he will have to answer, but back on topic, about libel and slander, it seems on here that obama is fair game for all types of comments, but the minute i say stuff about dubya, (whom i really don't have anything against, most of the stuff i say is to prove a point) ... things go off the deep end

rockdawg21
01-29-2009, 09:32 PM
the post right under yours Obama was called a "killer"
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3001#post3001
i agree, it is a moral wrong .. and he will have to answer, but back on topic, about libel and slander, it seems on here that obama is fair game for all types of comments, but the minute i say stuff about dubya, (whom i really don't have anything against, most of the stuff i say is to prove a point) ... things go off the deep end
Oh ok, I missed that. Yeah, good point, Preach's statement was an example of what I was talking about. I'd say it was overlooked by Nate because he wasn't arguing with Preach. Sometimes, it's easy to get zoned in on just 1 person. Look at our posts for example, lol

Anyways, what was stated on the front was only a point about hypocrisy of Obama. He's in a nice cozy White House talking about how people should make sacrifices of comfort for the better of everybody, but he isn't doing it himself. It's more like Jon Lion's father said, "Do as i say, not as i do!"

Max
01-29-2009, 09:59 PM
the post right under yours Obama was called a "killer"
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3001#post3001
i agree, it is a moral wrong .. and he will have to answer, but back on topic, about libel and slander, it seems on here that obama is fair game for all types of comments, but the minute i say stuff about dubya, (whom i really don't have anything against, most of the stuff i say is to prove a point) ... things go off the deep end
there is a simple way to handle this other than bashing Bush (which you know will piss people off). Just report the post and ask Nate to remove it becasue it is libel/slander. If Nate is true to his word he will remove the post.

Spiritwalker
01-29-2009, 11:20 PM
Did he not lead the US into the second Iraq war even when he was told by the UN and other nations that he shouldn't ? if he is responsible for the fall of saddam and his regime, should he not also be responsible for the casualties that come about by it? that is not slander ...


First off the US will not tuck tail cause the UN says to..

responsible is a strong word .. he may had had to put them in harms way.. but had Saddam just complied with the UN.. Bush wouldn't have had to force Saddam's hand..

Oh yeah.. another country that didn't give a damn about the UN.. and what about our allies... that went with us..

Spiritwalker
01-29-2009, 11:21 PM
so how can a poorly installed temperature limiter malfuntioning and tragically killing a vet, or yesterday post of a man killing his family be blamed on obama? is that not slander or libel then?

who knows if the vet installed it to save money? who knows if the company who hired the technician hired an unqualified tech? who knows if the man who killed his famly had serious mental issues ?

No one has blamed Barak specifically for those actions.. but what he is wanting to do.. will only increase them.

Spiritwalker
01-29-2009, 11:23 PM
So if Obama signs an act that allows abortions more then they already are, do you feel that the blood of those children are on him? would he be fair game to be called a murderer? i have already seen people post on here that have done that and no cries from anyone saying that it is libel or slander


In a word...

yes


or at least conspiracy.. again prolly too strong a word...

mikthehick
01-29-2009, 11:46 PM
Two words to the heating of the oval office...

who cares?

It's a room. end of story, move on.

Irish Pride
01-29-2009, 11:48 PM
Guess they had to get him on something.

Spiritwalker
01-30-2009, 03:05 AM
Two words to the heating of the oval office...

who cares?

It's a room. end of story, move on.


When the executive of the county his toasting his office.. and a plan he is backing (in the name of Socialism..IMO) causes a person to die from the cold in his own home....

That is something worth analyzing..

medic92
01-30-2009, 03:22 AM
No Dubya is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths and thousands of US Soldier deaths but that is ok ...

Are you really this deluded? If you are, reply and let me know before I waste my time explaining exactly who is responsible for the deaths of Iraqi's and American soldiers. I don't really feel like wasting my time if you really believe what you wrote. If you do, it's obvious that any rational explanation will be completely lost on you.

medic92
01-30-2009, 03:28 AM
Guess they had to get him on something.

He's getting himself on a lot of things. The first thing he did was restore funding for abortions to foreign countries while claiming the government shouldn't have anything to do with abortions, for or against. Well shouldn't that mean funding them too? Hypocrisy in action, from day one.

I have no doubt Obama is going to spend the next four years showing people that they made a huge mistake when they elected him. I pray he proves me wrong, but so far he's proving me right.

kyle
01-30-2009, 04:37 AM
Are you really this deluded? If you are, reply and let me know before I waste my time explaining exactly who is responsible for the deaths of Iraqi's and American soldiers. I don't really feel like wasting my time if you really believe what you wrote. If you do, it's obvious that any rational explanation will be completely lost on you.

I'm glad you wrote this because I was writing something earlier on this issue, but I deleted it because I decided it wasn't worth it. As you can tell by my sig i am in the military and i do take this personal. I personal think we all should be rational and debate the thread like adults in stead of getting way off topic.(as in blaming others for thousands of death)

I personally don't mind these political debates I think they keep thing interesting as long as we don't say things that make you sound like jane fonda typing on a keyboard. just my .02

rockdawg21
01-30-2009, 04:39 AM
I personally don't mind these political debates I think they keep thing interesting as long as we don't say things that make you sound like jane fonda typing on a keyboard. just my .02
I had to LOL @ that! That's classic!

NateR
01-30-2009, 05:25 AM
the post right under yours Obama was called a "killer"
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3001#post3001
i agree, it is a moral wrong .. and he will have to answer, but back on topic, about libel and slander, it seems on here that obama is fair game for all types of comments, but the minute i say stuff about dubya, (whom i really don't have anything against, most of the stuff i say is to prove a point) ... things go off the deep end

You're right that comment did cross the line, but I'm just kind of used to that from Preach.

However, most of what I was talking about, when I mentioned slander and libel, was referring to signatures, avatar and thread titles. If someone had started a thread titled "Obama is a murderer" because he supports abortion, then that would be deleted right away. I'm not as worried about individual posts.

billwilliams70
01-30-2009, 10:39 AM
That's exactly the point, the WW2 vet who died is a tragic case; but should be treated as a isolated incident. If it had happened in Illinois, then you could make a case for Obama being partly responsible; but it was in Michigan and just shows a flaw in the system that Obama is touting.

The mentality he seems to have (we should be ready to sacrifice some comfort, but he shouldn't have to) just makes him seem a little elitist. Just because he got elected President doesn't make him better than the average American. If he expects us to do without in order to "save the environment," then he should set the example and be willing to do the same.
Best post of the thread, bar none.

I'm not a President Obama hater, nor am I President Bush lover......I consider myself pretty fair and impartial, but right is right in this instance and Nate's second paragraph above says it all. This whole thread would be better suited to that topic rather than toss in the comments about WW2 veteran that froze to death in his Michigan home (which is a very tragic circumstance).

Later.

Jonlion
01-30-2009, 11:55 AM
In America, our leaders aren't treated like royalty, they are treated like public servants. I can understand the English mentality, though. You guys are used to a monarchy and are considered servants of the Queen. In the US, it's just the opposite, the government answers to the people, not the other way around.


I got to stop you there, me personally i wouldn't bow to the Queen, she is no better than me and i am not subserviant to her or anyone for that matter.

I get what you are saying and i get the differences, i think people elected to Office are there to serve the constitients.

If we are beign realistic though any President of the United States isnt going to live or be the average american whether rightly or wrongly.

I will say that after reading through again, it is bad that he is insisting on these limiters whilst not abiding by it himself. I mean does this not affect your personal liberties, it would be my belief that you can live as warm or as cold as you like.The fact is, your the onne that pays the bill.

I get what you are saying and Obama has to be careful not to become a hypocrite but please dont take me as someone who thinks that our leaders are our superiors and we have to be deferential!

mikthehick
01-30-2009, 02:14 PM
When the executive of the county his toasting his office.. and a plan he is backing (in the name of Socialism..IMO) causes a person to die from the cold in his own home....

That is something worth analyzing..


the WWII vet freezing to death is an isolated incident, as previously stated. I feel bad for that man--he didnt deserve to die that way and I presonally think ALL war vets should be treated with utmost respect at all times. It's a shame that this country seems to care less for some of them.

but Mr. Obama heating a room? I don't see how that is any different from the crooks over on Capital Hill and all their crap with pork barrel add ons, coat tail rides, and free food from the Dunkin Donuts on 14th street every morning at 8 am. This gov't wastes more money every day than i will ever dream of in my entire life. We are already living in a socialist-like gov't, and if people don't see they then they are lying to themselves.

the fed gov't has WAY too much power, and that does threaten the freedom of all the citizens.

I just don't see how heating an office is any different or any more of a deal from our neighbors overheating their homes, the money wasted on capital hill, or your own job overheating the building.....

rockdawg21
01-30-2009, 02:17 PM
I got to stop you there, me personally i wouldn't bow to the Queen, she is no better than me and i am not subserviant to her or anyone for that matter.

I get what you are saying and i get the differences, i think people elected to Office are there to serve the constitients.

If we are beign realistic though any President of the United States isnt going to live or be the average american whether rightly or wrongly.

I will say that after reading through again, it is bad that he is insisting on these limiters whilst not abiding by it himself. I mean does this not affect your personal liberties, it would be my belief that you can live as warm or as cold as you like.The fact is, your the onne that pays the bill.

I get what you are saying and Obama has to be careful not to become a hypocrite but please dont take me as someone who thinks that our leaders are our superiors and we have to be deferential!
Well the truth behind the limiters is simply because Obama backs "green legislation" because it's our fault the Earth is getting hotter, although before man was on the planet, the Earth got hotter and colder, but I guess it's our fault.

It's just another one of those liberal media ploys and Obama is supporting it.

Not to say, in some cases, it won't do some good, but if I'm the one paying the bill, I should have every right to keep my house as hot or cold as I want. All that crap that I'm releasing deadly CO2 into the atmosphere and heating the Earth because I want to keep my house warm is utter BS.

Jonlion
01-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Well the truth behind the limiters is simply because Obama backs "green legislation" because it's our fault the Earth is getting hotter, although before man was on the planet, the Earth got hotter and colder, but I guess it's our fault.

It's just another one of those liberal media ploys and Obama is supporting it.

Not to say, in some cases, it won't do some good, but if I'm the one paying the bill, I should have every right to keep my house as hot or cold as I want. All that crap that I'm releasing deadly CO2 into the atmosphere and heating the Earth because I want to keep my house warm is utter BS.


I remain unconvinnced about Global Warming. I of course believe we should treat the earth better and look at cleaner ways but the fact Politicians and the "stars" who sing at concerts try to make me feel bad about going on planes to travel, to have holidays we as workers deserve then thats when it makes me mad and want to say to hell with it!

rearnakedchoke
01-30-2009, 03:02 PM
Are you really this deluded? If you are, reply and let me know before I waste my time explaining exactly who is responsible for the deaths of Iraqi's and American soldiers. I don't really feel like wasting my time if you really believe what you wrote. If you do, it's obvious that any rational explanation will be completely lost on you.

not really, but i am trying to prove a point .... obama gets called a "Killer or murderer" in another thread beacuse he supports abortion and people go on like there is nothing wrong with it ... i say dubya is a murderer because he lead and declared the second war on iraq which resulted in thousands of deaths ... I don't really see the difference .. then I get nailed for it by saying it is slander/libel/crap/all that stuff ... sure, it may be, but it should be a two-way street ... i know a lot of people on here didn't want obama as prez cuz of his views, but does that mean he is open season .. if so, that is fine, but don't pretend that it isn't happening ...

Spiritwalker
01-30-2009, 07:05 PM
but Mr. Obama heating a room? I don't see how that is any different from the crooks over on Capital Hill and all their crap with pork barrel add ons, coat tail rides, and free food from the Dunkin Donuts on 14th street every morning at 8 am. This gov't wastes more money every day than i will ever dream of in my entire life. We are already living in a socialist-like gov't, and if people don't see they then they are lying to themselves.

the fed gov't has WAY too much power, and that does threaten the freedom of all the citizens.

I just don't see how heating an office is any different or any more of a deal from our neighbors overheating their homes, the money wasted on capital hill, or your own job overheating the building.....


Cause The President is the LEADER of the country.. lead by example!


He is the leader of the "crooks"...He is the leader of the righteous .. and the corrupt.. leading by example is the only way to lead.

MattHughesRocks
01-30-2009, 07:13 PM
I just may make a "Cryin' about Obama" thread here in the woodshed. It looks like it's going to be a long one folks:blink:

medic92
01-30-2009, 07:18 PM
not really, but i am trying to prove a point .... obama gets called a "Killer or murderer" in another thread beacuse he supports abortion and people go on like there is nothing wrong with it ... i say dubya is a murderer because he lead and declared the second war on iraq which resulted in thousands of deaths ... I don't really see the difference .. then I get nailed for it by saying it is slander/libel/crap/all that stuff ... sure, it may be, but it should be a two-way street ... i know a lot of people on here didn't want obama as prez cuz of his views, but does that mean he is open season .. if so, that is fine, but don't pretend that it isn't happening ...

Glad to hear you're not that deluded.

Saddam was responsible for this war by his continued defiance and refusal to comply with the UN conditions for the ceasefire that ended the first Gulf War. We never technically ended hostilities after the first war. We had a ceasefire based on specific conditions set forth by the UN. Saddam was in violation of several of those conditions almost from the moment hostilities ended. Bill Clinton occasionally got bored and enforced the no-fly zones when he needed a little boost in the polls, but Saddam basically had eight years to get away with his defiance. Bush comes in and decides we're going to actually enforce the conditions, backed by the Congress. BASED ON THE INTELLIGENCE WE HAD AT THE TIME, we all saw Saddam as a threat and the decision was made to remove that threat.

If you want me to get technical, I can go back into my files and pull the specific UN conditions that were violated, as well as ample evidence that Saddam moved a LOT of materials by truck into Pakistan prior to the second invasion. Was it his WMD program? I have no doubt whatsoever that it was.

Anyway, comparing a president that led his nation in a time of war to a president who is making sure our government funds the wholesale murder of innocent unborn children is a strawman at the best, and downright disingenuous at worst. We went to war against a government and people who wanted to destroy our country. Obama is declaring war on people who have the temerity to want to be born.

rearnakedchoke
01-30-2009, 07:25 PM
Glad to hear you're not that deluded.

Saddam was responsible for this war by his continued defiance and refusal to comply with the UN conditions for the ceasefire that ended the first Gulf War. We never technically ended hostilities after the first war. We had a ceasefire based on specific conditions set forth by the UN. Saddam was in violation of several of those conditions almost from the moment hostilities ended. Bill Clinton occasionally got bored and enforced the no-fly zones when he needed a little boost in the polls, but Saddam basically had eight years to get away with his defiance. Bush comes in and decides we're going to actually enforce the conditions, backed by the Congress. BASED ON THE INTELLIGENCE WE HAD AT THE TIME, we all saw Saddam as a threat and the decision was made to remove that threat.

If you want me to get technical, I can go back into my files and pull the specific UN conditions that were violated, as well as ample evidence that Saddam moved a LOT of materials by truck into Pakistan prior to the second invasion. Was it his WMD program? I have no doubt whatsoever that it was.

Anyway, comparing a president that led his nation in a time of war to a president who is making sure our government funds the wholesale murder of innocent unborn children is a strawman at the best, and downright disingenuous at worst. We went to war against a government and people who wanted to destroy our country. Obama is declaring war on people who have the temerity to want to be born.

Hey, I am not disagreeing with what you are saying .. but the point was not condoning slander/libel on here ... if there is a rule, then it should be held to every individual and not based on preference ..

MattHughesRocks
01-30-2009, 07:37 PM
By the way, I didn't vote for Obama either.

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 09:35 AM
It's the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I've gotten used to this kind of thing from Democratic leaders.
Youve got another four years of it now :mellow:

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 09:45 AM
No Dubya is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths and thousands of US Soldier deaths but that is ok ... Obama is indirectly (but probably not even) responsible for a frozen vet and he is a beast .. LOL ... love how the republican's love to skew things ...
NOT solely.

The main people to blame include The United States (For wishing to launch an attack on a soverignty not there own against International Law)

The United Kingdom (For issuing an ultimatum when The United States approached the United Nations to try and comply with International Law)

The Soverignty of France (For using its Veto to avoid the collection of a proper vote to classify the war either definatly legal or definatly illegal, in response to Americas bad manners in addressing the UN, and Britians issue of an Ultimatum)

The Soverignty of Iraq (For playing silly beggers with the United Nations inspectors over Weapons in the first place!)

The Intelligence Agencies of America and England (For providing information that for the best part turned out to show Iraq not quite the immediate threat it had been reported to the Governments)

Now the continuation of the war, was a requirement, and Bush recognised that in the face of his fickle public. I believe he was redeemed by that action.

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 09:48 AM
In America, our leaders aren't treated like royalty, they are treated like public servants. I can understand the English mentality, though. You guys are used to a monarchy and are considered servants of the Queen. In the US, it's just the opposite, the government answers to the people, not the other way around.



If Bush had taken that approach you would have been out of Iraq almost the month after the invasion. Good job he had a British Mentality and knew to lead.

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 09:58 AM
First off the US will not tuck tail cause the UN says to..

responsible is a strong word .. he may had had to put them in harms way.. but had Saddam just complied with the UN.. Bush wouldn't have had to force Saddam's hand..

Oh yeah.. another country that didn't give a damn about the UN.. and what about our allies... that went with us..
Why not? The United States doesnt have any authority outside of her Boarders....you dont rule the world, and like it or not, if you mess with another country, and need support, you need friends...you dont get friends if you arent respectful of them. Why do you expect Saddam to comply with the United Nations IF YOU WONT?

Your allies that went with you faced attacks because they sided with you. Various bombings, including the bombing of London in 2005. Your Allies were attacked because they stood with you, thats what happened to your allies.

You wonder why there is a wane in support for the United States...if Europe treated you, like you treated them, you'd be the first to get angry. What if A state in Europe thought that the replacement for Obama in Chicago was a complete scandal...which I hear it was...and wanted to "Liberate" the people of Illinois...and so without consultation mounted a campaign to Invade?...but didnt bother going to the UN because they never solve anything.

How would you feel if you were treated that way? You are ONLY independant and Soverign WITHIN your boarders...Iraq is NOT within your Boarders...therefore if you want to act INTER-Nationally...you comply by INTER-National Law.

America of course ALWAYS turns to the UN to sort Israel out, because they havent the balls to tell her when she is wrong! You talk about Hypocrasy...there you are.

Now that all the parties are Hypocrits, perhaps we can get on with our lives?

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 10:02 AM
You're right that comment did cross the line, but I'm just kind of used to that from Preach.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 10:07 AM
1)I got to stop you there, me personally i wouldn't bow to the Queen, she is no better than me and i am not subserviant to her or anyone for that matter.

1) :laugh: yes you are, and I guarentee if you were in her presence you would think differently.

Before you think I'm being rude...I have been in her Presence...Though I wasnt addressing her at the time, so there was no need to bow. But I have bowed to many. The Lord Bishop of London, The ArchBishop of Canterbury...and every single person I led from a-b in the Cathedral started by greeting them with a bow, and ended by greeting them with a bow.

Heck I still do it now, when a car stops and lets me cross...its not a sign of submission, its a sign of respect. Just like when you walk past someone you know and you "nod" or when you salute someone more important then yourself in the Armed Forces...its doesnt mean Submission so much as Respect.

Your not so much bowing at the person, your respecting their office. I had to bow to Martin Warner, as a person, I hated the guy, and he hated me, but he had to bow to me in such circumstances also. I repected his office of Canon, he respected my office of Verger

but we didnt respect each other as people at all.

Its polite, its courtesy, its a matter of ettiquette

Tyburn
02-01-2009, 10:18 AM
I remain unconvinnced about Global Warming. I of course believe we should treat the earth better and look at cleaner ways but the fact Politicians and the "stars" who sing at concerts try to make me feel bad about going on planes to travel, to have holidays we as workers deserve then thats when it makes me mad and want to say to hell with it!
Global Warming is real...but so is Global cooling.

People think that we are responsible for it. thats not quite true. Global Warming happens naturally, all we are doing is speeding the process up. I hasten to add Global Cooling is natural aswell, and that will happen when we tip the ratio of carbon...its a natural defence mechanism for the Earth.

So I dont think we will destroy the planet through Global warming, but the planet might destory us in its Global Cooling stage. Its actually works on Water

A natural flow of water keeps the earth warm, thats why England at the same lattitude as parts of Canada is warm during winter, when canada is not. Now as the carbon level rises (this happens naturally through waste gasses from almost every living thing including plants) the atmosphere traps more heat. The pole caps melt.

They release cold water, and that puts out the warmth of the sea. This means things freeze and snow and Ice are produced. Snow and ice reflect the heat out into space and give time for the carbon ballence to be restored...then the earth begins to heat again.

All we are doing is speeding the process up. Which means the cooling stage will be more violent. We're only a danger to ourselves in this. :)