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Tyburn
04-29-2009, 06:15 PM
*Murder is punishable by State Execution
*Manslaughter is punishable by Exile
*GBH towards Parents is Punishable by State Execution
*Servant/Slave stealing is punishable by State Execution
*Selling on a Stolen Servant/Slave is punishable by State Execution
*In the event of an accident by the use of physical force or machinery, the wounded must be fully compensated for loss of time and earning, until fully healed. (this only applies to cases where the victim is conscious)

*Masters may discipline their servants useing physical abuse, so long as the servant isnt killed.

*in the event of an accident that happens to a preganant women which causes the baby to be misscarried, presuming it is an innocent accident, the Judges will decide on the financial compensation, and the Husband of the woman may kick his head in :laugh:

In the event that someone deliberately causes a misscarriage, the punishment is State Execution. The Scriptures consider the unborn child as a human being.

Crisco
04-29-2009, 06:18 PM
*Murder is punishable by State Execution
*Manslaughter is punishable by Exile
*GBH towards Parents is Punishable by State Execution
*Servant/Slave stealing is punishable by State Execution
*Selling on a Stolen Servant/Slave is punishable by State Execution
*In the event of an accident by the use of physical force or machinery, the wounded must be fully compensated for loss of time and earning, until fully healed. (this only applies to cases where the victim is conscious)

*Masters may discipline their servants useing physical abuse, so long as the servant isnt killed.

*in the event of an accident that happens to a preganant women which causes the baby to be misscarried, presuming it is an innocent accident, the Judges will decide on the financial compensation, and the Husband of the woman may kick his head in :laugh:

In the event that someone deliberately causes a misscarriage, the punishment is State Execution. The Scriptures consider the unborn child as a human being.

Where are you getting these from? The bible?

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 06:33 PM
Where are you getting these from? The bible?
:) Yep...just compiling a little list so I got them written down somewhere :laugh:

*livestock that gets killed due to other farmers negligence, must pay the farmer for the loss of livestock and get rid of the dead animals
* if livestock from one farm, kills a beast from the other farm. Those animals left alive but involved in the fray, must be sold and the money split between both farms. The Dead Cattle meat must also be divided between the two farms (The execption being, again, a known aggressive animal who has attacked before, if this be the case, the offending animal must be killed)

:)

NateR
04-29-2009, 07:02 PM
It might help if you posted the verses where they come from, so other people can look them up.

rearnakedchoke
04-29-2009, 08:00 PM
*Murder is punishable by State Execution
*Manslaughter is punishable by Exile
*GBH towards Parents is Punishable by State Execution
*Servant/Slave stealing is punishable by State Execution
*Selling on a Stolen Servant/Slave is punishable by State Execution
*In the event of an accident by the use of physical force or machinery, the wounded must be fully compensated for loss of time and earning, until fully healed. (this only applies to cases where the victim is conscious)

*Masters may discipline their servants useing physical abuse, so long as the servant isnt killed.

*in the event of an accident that happens to a preganant women which causes the baby to be misscarried, presuming it is an innocent accident, the Judges will decide on the financial compensation, and the Husband of the woman may kick his head in :laugh:

In the event that someone deliberately causes a misscarriage, the punishment is State Execution. The Scriptures consider the unborn child as a human being.
nice .. so slavery is okay'd by the bible ... gotta go get me some slaves now ....

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 08:28 PM
It might help if you posted the verses where they come from, so other people can look them up.
Sorry :ashamed:

All the above is paraphrased from Exodus Chapter Twenty One :)

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 08:32 PM
nice .. so slavery is okay'd by the bible ... gotta go get me some slaves now ....
Well...The Bible seams to mention Servants more then Slaves.

Servants are not Slaves, they are Hired Workers, basically. They have rights, have to be treated specific ways etc.

Its not quite Slavery in terms of what Whites used to do to Blacks...No. Its a kinda bondage thats more akin to Employment. Effectively Servants were slaves to their Masters, the same way you are to your line manager at work. Except, you line manager only pays you.

Servants get board and lodging, and get looked after aswell, but their contracts appear to only ever be for Six years.

Crisco
04-29-2009, 08:33 PM
nice .. so slavery is okay'd by the bible ... gotta go get me some slaves now ....

You don't have any?

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 08:35 PM
You don't have any?
by the sounds of it...they are more hassle then they are worth in regards to the Law :laugh:

Miss Foxy
04-29-2009, 08:39 PM
by the sounds of it...they are more hassle then they are worth in regards to the Law :laugh:
I am like in the worst mood ever Dave and your bird avatar makes me laugh everytime!! And your dry sense of humor!! :laugh:

rearnakedchoke
04-29-2009, 08:41 PM
You don't have any?
nah, we are pansy's here in canada ... where do you think the underground railroad lead to? where did all the vietnam draft dodgers go .. LOL ...

NateR
04-29-2009, 08:41 PM
nice .. so slavery is okay'd by the bible ... gotta go get me some slaves now ....

Actually, slavery was just a fact of life back in those days. It wasn't considered "immoral" until around the 18th or 19th century. However, if you look at what slavery actually was back in those days, then you can see that it really wasn't any worse than what minimum wage labor is today.

A person who works over 40 hours a week and barely makes enough money to pay all of his bills every month while still being able to afford food, is really nothing more than a slave to his job. In biblical times, slave masters were required to provide food and a home for their slaves. So, in reality, they were getting paid with 'room and board' not with money. Which is more than what some employers pay, since many people have to take multiple jobs just to survive these days.

Slavery didn't become a race issue until Darwin published Origin of Species.

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 08:52 PM
I am like in the worst mood ever Dave and your bird avatar makes me laugh everytime!! And your dry sense of humor!! :laugh:
You mean Jens the Budgie :huh: Do you know it was a complete spontaneous happening that picture? I was chasing Jens with a towel to try and get him back into the cage after his hour out (yes he has a full hour every day now) and he didnt wanna play ball...the Cross is a gift from my Parents that they bought back from Italy, and I stuck it onto the computer.

By fluke, Jens landed ontop of it (it was during Holy Week) So whilst he was catching his breath, I took a few snaps. :laugh:

Miss Foxy
04-29-2009, 09:02 PM
You mean Jens the Budgie :huh: Do you know it was a complete spontaneous happening that picture? I was chasing Jens with a towel to try and get him back into the cage after his hour out (yes he has a full hour every day now) and he didnt wanna play ball...the Cross is a gift from my Parents that they bought back from Italy, and I stuck it onto the computer.

By fluke, Jens landed ontop of it (it was during Holy Week) So whilst he was catching his breath, I took a few snaps. :laugh:
Oh goodness how funny and what a cute story!! He's holy Jens!! :tongue0011:

Miss Foxy
04-29-2009, 09:06 PM
Actually, slavery was just a fact of life back in those days. It wasn't considered "immoral" until around the 18th or 19th century. However, if you look at what slavery actually was back in those days, then you can see that it really wasn't any worse than what minimum wage labor is today.

A person who works over 40 hours a week and barely makes enough money to pay all of his bills every month while still being able to afford food, is really nothing more than a slave to his job. In biblical times, slave masters were required to provide food and a home for their slaves. So, in reality, they were getting paid with 'room and board' not with money. Which is more than what some employers pay, since many people have to take multiple jobs just to survive these days.

Slavery didn't become a race issue until Darwin published Origin of Species.
Nathan I like your posts they always make sense to me.. Other times when everyone is debating I get lost! Lol. :frantics:

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Actually, slavery was just a fact of life back in those days. It wasn't considered "immoral" until around the 18th or 19th century. However, if you look at what slavery actually was back in those days, then you can see that it really wasn't any worse than what minimum wage labor is today.

A person who works over 40 hours a week and barely makes enough money to pay all of his bills every month while still being able to afford food, is really nothing more than a slave to his job. In biblical times, slave masters were required to provide food and a home for their slaves. So, in reality, they were getting paid with 'room and board' not with money. Which is more than what some employers pay, since many people have to take multiple jobs just to survive these days.

Slavery didn't become a race issue until Darwin published Origin of Species.
thats what I said :wink:

...and Miss Foxy...please note...I said it first :frantics:

Tyburn
04-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Oh goodness how funny and what a cute story!! He's holy Jens!! :tongue0011:
:laugh: Saint Jens :laugh:

Miss Foxy
04-29-2009, 09:35 PM
:laugh: Saint Jens :laugh:
LOL!! Yes so no more Jens the budgie garbage its now... St.Jens or Santo Jens!! Love it!

Jonlion
04-29-2009, 10:06 PM
Actually, slavery was just a fact of life back in those days. It wasn't considered "immoral" until around the 18th or 19th century. However, if you look at what slavery actually was back in those days, then you can see that it really wasn't any worse than what minimum wage labor is today.

A person who works over 40 hours a week and barely makes enough money to pay all of his bills every month while still being able to afford food, is really nothing more than a slave to his job. In biblical times, slave masters were required to provide food and a home for their slaves. So, in reality, they were getting paid with 'room and board' not with money. Which is more than what some employers pay, since many people have to take multiple jobs just to survive these days.

Slavery didn't become a race issue until Darwin published Origin of Species.


Hmmmmmm, I am not so sure about that.

I am trying to find the reference but i think Pope Gregory VII wrote to Archbishop Lanfranc in the 11th century asking him to look into slavery and its trafficking in Ireland. Lanfranc then wrote to the Irish church and Kings about it.

Can't pull to much stuff on it at the moment but it is my understanding that Western christendom whilst nto overly bothered by pagan/infidel slavery, they were against enslaving Christians. So in that sense it was seen as immoral.

Whatever way the slave trade was prolific all the way through the Middle Ages from Africa and Scandianavia. It made a lot of money!

Jonlion
04-29-2009, 10:10 PM
I would also add that living standards and enviroments of slavery/serfdom etc was somewhat worse than living standards of today.

People fight and die for the notion of liberty, so even if you work every hour under the sun, you still have freedom, something America fought for.

I'm not sure its a good comparison.

What is it to be poor today, not to have a mobile phone or T.V?!!!!!!!! :laugh:

NateR
04-29-2009, 10:32 PM
I would also add that living standards and enviroments of slavery/serfdom etc was somewhat worse than living standards of today.

People fight and die for the notion of liberty, so even if you work every hour under the sun, you still have freedom, something America fought for.

I'm not sure its a good comparison.

What is it to be poor today, not to have a mobile phone or T.V?!!!!!!!! :laugh:

I think everyone's standard of living was lower back then.

Anyways, I'm not that familiar with the anti-slavery movement in Europe, but I do know that it was a major issue when the US was being founded. In fact, the first US anti-slavery legislation (that I know of) was proposed in 1777, by John Jay. However, the Founding Fathers realized that slavery was just too controversial for the fledgling union and, if the country was going to survive against England, then it needed to be put on the back burner to be dealt with later.

Also, in America, slavery was something of a necessity and it didn't start out as just whites enslaving blacks. Many Irish and Chinese were brought over for slavery purposes. An old history text I read gave some statistics about slavery in America just before the Civil War. I think it was 90% of families who owned slaves, owned only one or two. Many of those slaves were treated like members of the family, because the family simply couldn't afford an unhappy or unhealthy slave. Of the 10% of families that could afford many slaves, only a few of those were big plantations that could afford to abuse their slaves without too much financial loss. Of course, those were the organizations that got the most attention and they needed to be shut down, however, they did not characterize the average southern slave owner of the 19th century.

Anyways, like Dave said about the Bible's slavery laws. No one could keep a slave for more than 7 years (every 7th year was the Year of Jubilee, in which all debts were forgiven and all slaves were freed), unless the slave CHOSE to continue being a slave. Then he or she was referred to as an indentured servant, meaning that they chose to stay with their masters out of their own free will and were usually motivated by love for their masters.

Also, another slavery law in the Bible, if you found a slave who had escaped from his master, then you weren't allowed to return the slave to that same master. You were to consider the slave a free man.

Jonlion
04-29-2009, 10:38 PM
I think everyone's standard of living was lower back then.

Anyways, I'm not that familiar with the anti-slavery movement in Europe, but I do know that it was a major issue when the US was being founded. In fact, the first US anti-slavery legislation (that I know of) was proposed in 1777, by John Jay. However, the Founding Fathers realized that slavery was just too controversial for the fledgling union and, if the country was going to survive against England, then it needed to be put on the back burner to be dealt with later.

Also, in America, slavery was something of a necessity and it didn't start out as just whites enslaving blacks. Many Irish and Chinese were brought over for slavery purposes. An old history text I read gave some statistics about slavery in America just before the Civil War. I think it was 90% of families who owned slaves, owned only one or two. Many of those slaves were treated like members of the family, because the family simply couldn't afford an unhappy or unhealthy slave. Of the 10% of families that could afford many slaves, only a few of those were big plantations that could afford to abuse their slaves without too much financial loss. Of course, those were the organizations that got the most attention and they needed to be shut down, however, they did not characterize the average southern slave owner of the 19th century.

Anyways, like Dave said about the Bible's slavery laws. No one could keep a slave for more than 7 years (every 7th year was the Year of Jubilee, in which all debts were forgiven and all slaves were freed), unless the slave CHOSE to continue being a slave. Then he or she was referred to as an indentured servant, meaning that they chose to stay with their masters out of their own free will and were usually motivated by love for their masters.

Also, another slavery law in the Bible, if you found a slave who had escaped from his master, then you weren't allowed to return the slave to that same master. You were to consider the slave a free man.



Right i see what you mean. I am by no means an expert on anti slavery movements in Europe, i just know that certainly if you were Christian it was prohibited.

I agree that slavery/bondage is a lot more complex and diverse than we are commonly taught about these days.

It still irks me that it is seen as a purely white oppression when Africa was enslaved more of its own people to sell to the slave ships.

One thing that surprised me was that most of the output of slaves were actually sent to Brazil and only a small fraction went to USA or the Caribean.

Tyburn
04-30-2009, 09:08 PM
:) Chapter twenty two

*Stealing livestock deserves the following compensation (5 ox for everyone stolen, and 4 sheep for everyone stolen) This mainly applies for possesion of Stolen Livestock with the intention of killing for meat or sale.
*If you find a theif stealing your animals, you may kick their head in :laugh: If you kill them it doesnt count as murder. If they recover then they must pay back double what they tried to steal, if they cant, you can sell them into slavery
*If another farmers cattle eats the produce growing in your field, the other farmer must give all that was eaten back from his own crop.
*Fire, whether deliberate or accidental, must be replaced by the firestarter.

*Any borrowed monies that are subsequently stolen become twice the debt to the thief when caught.
*Any borrowed monies or that are subsequently stolen, but the theif is unknown, then the Master must go before the judges to see if the borrowed monies need to be paid back and if they need to be doubled or further compensation added.

* Property rights (when challenged for ownership) are settled by the judge for land, posession, clothing and cattle. The losing party must repay double.

*Borrowed livestock that goes missing, is forgiven by swaering an oath, or by finding the carcus of the missing livestock
*Borrowed livestock that is stolen follows tje same procedure as money

* Hired Possessions that break down before being returned are forgiven if under the direct supervision of the Master when they became faulty. If not, they must be replaced before being returned

*If you do have sex before marriage you are required to make good by marrying the woman.
*In the refusal of marriage by the womans parents, the male must pay dowry (in other words, he still has to financially support her as if she were his Wife)

*Anyone who deals in magic potions of any kind is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in beastiality is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in sacrificial rituals outside of Christianity is punishable by State Execution

*Strangers are to be welcomed and free from oppression
*Widows and Orphans are to be looked after (If you wrong any of these three personality types, GOD promises to get personally involved, He may see to your earthly death, that your wives are made widows, and your children are made orphans)

*DO NOT Charge poor people who borrow money interest on their repayments!

*In the situation that you borrow someones coat, it must be returned to them by the end of the day...GOD gets very upset at people who leave others lacking through a cold night

*Do NOT Curse or Slander your Political Leaders

*Do not eat from any animal thats been killed in the wild by a preditor

*The first born of everything, including Produce, Livestock and Human Offsprings, are to be offer to GOD (The Livestock may be separated from its parents on the Seventh day after birth, the Human Offspring may be dedicated rather then sacrificed :laugh: )

Borrowed could also mean hired in the above context

Miss Foxy
04-30-2009, 09:46 PM
:) Chapter twenty two

*Stealing livestock deserves the following compensation (5 ox for everyone stolen, and 4 sheep for everyone stolen) This mainly applies for possesion of Stolen Livestock with the intention of killing for meat or sale.
*If you find a theif stealing your animals, you may kick their head in :laugh: If you kill them it doesnt count as murder. If they recover then they must pay back double what they tried to steal, if they cant, you can sell them into slavery
*If another farmers cattle eats the produce growing in your field, the other farmer must give all that was eaten back from his own crop.
*Fire, whether deliberate or accidental, must be replaced by the firestarter.

*Any borrowed monies that are subsequently stolen become twice the debt to the thief when caught.
*Any borrowed monies or that are subsequently stolen, but the theif is unknown, then the Master must go before the judges to see if the borrowed monies need to be paid back and if they need to be doubled or further compensation added.

* Property rights (when challenged for ownership) are settled by the judge for land, posession, clothing and cattle. The losing party must repay double.

*Borrowed livestock that goes missing, is forgiven by swaering an oath, or by finding the carcus of the missing livestock
*Borrowed livestock that is stolen follows tje same procedure as money

* Hired Possessions that break down before being returned are forgiven if under the direct supervision of the Master when they became faulty. If not, they must be replaced before being returned

*If you do have sex before marriage you are required to make good by marrying the woman.*In the refusal of marriage by the womans parents, the male must pay dowry (in other words, he still has to financially support her as if she were his Wife)

*Anyone who deals in magic potions of any kind is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in beastiality is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in sacrificial rituals outside of Christianity is punishable by State Execution

*Strangers are to be welcomed and free from oppression
*Widows and Orphans are to be looked after (If you wrong any of these three personality types, GOD promises to get personally involved, He may see to your earthly death, that your wives are made widows, and your children are made orphans)

*DO NOT Charge poor people who borrow money interest on their repayments!

*In the situation that you borrow someones coat, it must be returned to them by the end of the day...GOD gets very upset at people who leave others lacking through a cold night

*Do NOT Curse or Slander your Political Leaders

*Do not eat from any animal thats been killed in the wild by a preditor

*The first born of everything, including Produce, Livestock and Human Offsprings, are to be offer to GOD (The Livestock may be separated from its parents on the Seventh day after birth, the Human Offspring may be dedicated rather then sacrificed :laugh: )

Borrowed could also mean hired in the above context
Food for thought!?!! :blink:

Crisco
04-30-2009, 09:50 PM
Food for thought!?!! :blink:

ain't it

Tyburn
04-30-2009, 10:50 PM
Food for thought!?!! :blink:
interesting.

Adultory is punishable by death, but sleeping with a woman outside of wedlock in either case...is not.

I was suprised at that :blink:

Miss Foxy
04-30-2009, 10:51 PM
interesting.

Adultory is punishable by death, but sleeping with a woman outside of wedlock in either case...is not.

I was suprised at that :blink:
Good!! Looks like im a little safe for now!! :laugh: I can't stand cheaters and especially homewreckers!! :punch:

Tyburn
04-30-2009, 11:21 PM
Good!! Looks like im a little safe for now!! :laugh: I can't stand cheaters and especially homewreckers!! :punch:
its alright for the woman...she dont get punished!

She either marries him if her parents say so...or she doesnt but he pays for her future :mellow:

Tyburn
05-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Chapter 23

GOD repeats the rule about being nice to Strangers

* Fraud, lies, and false testimoney are not condoned by GOD
* Do not partake in wickedness even if its done by a large group of people
* Do not incite evil, or become a ringleader for large groups of troublemakers
* Dont be a con artist, or scam those who are poor
* Dont think you can get away with being mean to your enemies or competitors
* Regardless of your personal likes and dislikes if you see someone struggling who needs help, you must do so.
* Do not wrong those that do good
* Do not expect rewards for your help, infact dont accept gifts (at the Store we are not allowed to accept gifts from a customer)
* You may work for 6 days but must rest on the seventh (including livestock)
* You may work the farmland for 6 years, but let it grow wild on the 7th (you wont have a servant to tend the land anyway that year) any produce can go to the animals or to the poor for free.

* GOD Institutes The Feast of The Passover (A Seven Day feast where only unlevened bread may be consumed)
* GOD institutes The Feast of The Harvest (This to be done when the First Crop is collected
*GOD institutes a Second Feast for The Harvest (A celebration to be held after Harvest is completed)

*Produce and offerings, along with all Males are to attend the Feasts at The Temple

* Do not bow or serve pagen gods
* Dont make any covernants with pagens already living in the Holy Land
* Remove those pagens, to avoid falling into their sin

(First mention of the Rule that Israel Broke, resulting in the claim of Palastine)

* An Angel is appointed to guard the Israel, its a "Covernant Host" (not completely sure I know what a Covernant Host is, but many Angels have appointments over projects, houses, families, churches, etc. This Host is extremely important. I Think this is a Reference to The Archangel, Saint Michael, because GOD says that the Angel will ensure military victories for Israel against Six different Nations. GOD says "My name is in Him" about the Covernant Host. Michael is pretty much believed to be the Standard bearer of GOOD in the Created World. He symbolizes the best possible Creation of GOD outside of a perfected-post ressurectional human. He leads the forces of Light. It looks like one of his Roles is The Covernant Host for the Law.


What GOD promises keepers of the law

*Long Mortal Life
*Blessings on all consumables
*Relief from sickness and disease
*removal of infertility
*pysical conquest over mortal enemies

Tyburn
05-05-2009, 07:15 PM
From Chapter 25

What GOD will except as a common offering

*Gold
*Silver
*Brass
*Blue, Purple or Red fabrics
*Goats hair or anything made from it
*Rams hyde (likes them to be dyed red please :laugh: )
*Badger hyde
*Some exotic types of Woods, particularly the type used for the Ark (His Sons a carpenter :ninja: )
*Oil for fuel
*Spiced Oil for annointing
*Insence
*Precious Gems or stones

He'd Like to have his own Tabernakle (A house in which he can Live to be near to His people)

His Cathedra (Throne) is to be made out of Gold, and it is to be surrounded by Two Cherubs each made of Gold. The Throne is to be placed onto of a Wooden Box which has been encrusted with Gold, inside the box is to be a copy of The Law (In other words, He wants The Ark of the Covernant) Measurements are given...apparently he will appear above the box, and inbetween the Golden Cherubs, hovering above the miniature Throne (Its not big enough to sit on)

His Royal Desk is to be made out of wood, and encrusted in gold, and its to have a full set of cups, bowls, plates, spoons, and He'd like to have Bread left in the recepticals at all times.

Lighting arrangements. He'd like a Menorah Candlestick made out of pure Gold, he'd also like seven Golden oil lamps. He'd like a pair of tongues, and he'd also like a candlesnuffer :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: All in Gold.

These can be considered offerings in and of themselves, the very basics needed before one can actually perform any sort of ceremonial sacrifice :)

Tyburn
05-06-2009, 06:21 PM
If You dont have a Temple, fear not. GOD outlines in Chapter Twenty Six how you can make a tabernackle, all out of Curtains, Fabric. He specifies the colour, the size, and even the tassels that should be on them. The number of loops for the Curtain so it can be fixed to a rail. The Roof is made of goat hair curtains. The whole thing to be fixed onto a brass frame. Over the Fabric on the outside wall is dyed rams skin, and over the goat hair roof is badger skin. This was the place can withstand the elements.

Inside the ark is to be placed on and surrounded by wooden boards, they will be held in place with sockets of silver, with bars of wood fixed through them. The inside of this little box type room is too be covered with gold, Fabrics are to be pattered so the Choir of Cherubim can be seen

Above the Ark of the Covernant is to be a Baldekino. The posts are from wood, and the canope is of fabric. The fabric is to hang over the posts by Hooks of Gold.

Interestingly enough, I might just have discovered why the Church view the South Side as more important. The Offering Table complete with Candle stick goes to the South. Another table (we call them in the church Credence Tables) to the North.

All instructions are given...except for one...It ISNT stated on what Axis the Ark has to be placed in the Sanctuary...THIS matters...because all the placements for the other objects are compas FROM the Ark. So if the is in the North or South end running East to West, the Credence table is behind it, and the Offering table infront of it.

but if the Ark is in the East or West, running north to south BOTH Tables are infront of it.

So it kinda matters...and I cant believe there is no instruction to say where EXACTLY the Ark should go, which corner, and in which direction.

I think we have a missing Verse of Scripture...I cant believe GOD wouldnt tell people where abouts in the Tabernackle to put the Ark, and which way round it should be facing.:unsure-1:

Although its difficult to understand the measurements. I mean, he gives the number of wooden boards in each direction, some are longer then others, It may be that if you built it, it would be obvious by the rooms dimensions where the ark is supposed to go. I dont know...I cant do it in my head....I might try and draw it on paper when I get back from the pool. That way I shall know for certain :)

Tyburn
05-08-2009, 09:03 PM
All from Chapter 27

Burnt Offerings have to be done on a very specific altar. It doesnt say where the Burnt Offerings Altar should actually be placed...but it looks like its probably outside of the Tabernakle in the courtyard

A wooden Structure covered with brass, and it has to have four horns one at each edge. It also has to have its own array of equipment. Including a pan for the ashes, shovals, and basins, flesh hooks, and firepans. The Altar is to be mounted on a large grate of brass which can be mounted and lifted using the same technique as the ark.

The twenty Southern pillars of the Courtyard around the tabernakle are to hold on a set of brass and silver hooks on which to hang some tapestry. This is to be copied on all the other walls, the specifications for the dimensions of each wall (made up of wooden pillars covered in Silver) are given

A reminder that the lamps must be kepts burning 24/7

From Chapter Twenty Eight

Now this Chapter is fascinating because it outlines what Vestments a Priest must wear and why.

The reason why is "for Glory and For Beauty" Now thats something that rings with me having dealt with Vestments at Saint Paul's. According to GOD each Priest should have

*A breast plate

Although this is made of fabric, same colours of gold, blue, purple and red, it also has a number of golden rings sewn into it. So that several chains of Gold, and some blue lace can allow the breast plate to hang on the chest by being attached to the Ephod should signets. There are to be 12 signets on the breastplate. GOD specifies which stone represents which Tribe, the order in which they are to be placed aswell. There must be a pocket or something aswell, because the breastplate also has to have the lots that a priest uses (you know as in to draw lots)

*A pair of priestly pants, The pants are worn over the robe and have sholder straps to hold them up) :laugh: (called an Ephod)

This is to be linen and colours of Gold, Blue, Purple and Red. On the two shoulders are to be two signets, precious gems in a golden setting, each to have 6 names on, to make up the twelve tribes of Jacob. Stretching between the two signets across the neck is to be two chains of Gold (they clip over the shoulder signets...so think of the chain of office a Mayor wears, but instead of going all the way round like a super large necklace, its actually clipped on to the shoulders.

Bet it looked Glorious :w00t:

*A robe (Probably like a cassok)

With one big exception, its poncho like in style, goes on over the head, like a jumper. on the hems are to be pictures of pomegranites. At the bottom of each pomegranite there is to be sewn into the hem, little golden bells...so every time the priest moves he rings :laugh: NOW...THIS is the origin of the Sanctuary bell...see when the priest is inside the Tabernakle, he cant be seen, only heard...well, when the Catholics had their Curtain in a church...they used to ring a bell to signify when important happenings took place.


*A Coat (probably like a Cope...because it says they are heavy fabric)

Not specified exactly, but heavy embrodiery

*A Cincture (possibly in the style of a belt)

Not specified exactly, but needlework

*A Mitre

The mitre is to have a plate of Gold fastened into it. like the lip of a cap resting on the priests forehead...

All priests must also wear breeches to cover their legs under the robe.


its all symbolic...the plate represents the sin of the people...The Lots are kept in the breastplate to show that the decisions are made by GOD, the stones in the breastplate are the judgement of each tribe, carried by the priest to the Lord.

Tyburn
05-12-2009, 10:51 PM
How to perform a Ceremonial Consecration.

*One young Bullock
*Two young Rams
*Unleavend Bread
*Unleavend Cakes with a drizzle of oil
*unlevened Waffers with a drizzle of oil
*Single basket to carry the bread, cakes and waffers
*Bowl and Water
*Priestly Vestments as described earlier in thread
*Oil for annointment

To begin with said priest must wash using water and bowl, must then dress in the vestments and then be annointed on the head with the oil.

The Sacrificial Table must be put infront of the door to the tabernackle. The bullock is to seemingly have his neck broken by the priest. Blood is then to be collected from the carcus. The priest must use his finger to transfer the blood onto the four horns of the Altar, the rest of the blood is to be poured off the side of the altar so its on the ground infront of it. The fat from the giblets is to be removed and to be burned on the Altar. After that the rest of the carcuss must be burned, meat, hyde and all.

The Ram is next to be slaughtered, its blood is to be sprinkled all over the altar. The Ram is to be diced into little pieces, the bits are to be washed, and then rearranged on the altar to recreate the ram. The whole thing is then to be burned.

The second ram is then to be slaughtered, the blood collected, and this time the priest is to be annointed on both ears, their right thumb, and their right toe. The rest is again to be sprinkled on the altar.

The run off of the blood, oil and...stuff...on the altar is then to be collected and kinda thrown all over the priest, all over the garments he is wearing, etc.

The fat, rump, right shoulder, and giblets, along with the bread, cakes, and wafers are to be held by the priest (they call it a "wave" offering) Then they are collected back from the priests and burned.

The rest of the Ram (left shoulder and breasts) are to be held by the priest, and then to be boiled actually in the sanctuary itself. Once cooked, the priest may eat it, plus any bread, cakes and waffers left over. If they cant eat it all, whats left, next morning is to be burned.

This procedure must be repeated SEVEN TIMES, over SEVEN DAYS
After each time the Alter is to be clensed (doesnt say how but I presume washed) and then to be annointed with oil.

Then they are considered consecrated :) The Altar aswell will be consecrated. So consecrated...GOD says a blessing of holiness is passed to whoever touches it, after the seventh performance.


GOD then institutes the daily sacrifices, these are to be a lamb in the morning, and a lamb before night.

I dont have a clue about the specifics because it refers to general offerings I havent read yet. But the first lamb is to be accompanied by flour and oil, and wine. All to be prepared...and then burned.

Says GOD finds the smell "sweet" and "pleasing" :unsure:

rearnakedchoke
05-12-2009, 11:01 PM
How to perform a Ceremonial Consecration.

*One young Bullock
*Two young Rams
*Unleavend Bread
*Unleavend Cakes with a drizzle of oil
*unlevened Waffers with a drizzle of oil
*Single basket to carry the bread, cakes and waffers
*Bowl and Water
*Priestly Vestments as described earlier in thread
*Oil for annointment

To begin with said priest must wash using water and bowl, must then dress in the vestments and then be annointed on the head with the oil.

The Sacrificial Table must be put infront of the door to the tabernackle. The bullock is to seemingly have his neck broken by the priest. Blood is then to be collected from the carcus. The priest must use his finger to transfer the blood onto the four horns of the Altar, the rest of the blood is to be poured off the side of the altar so its on the ground infront of it. The fat from the giblets is to be removed and to be burned on the Altar. After that the rest of the carcuss must be burned, meat, hyde and all.

The Ram is next to be slaughtered, its blood is to be sprinkled all over the altar. The Ram is to be diced into little pieces, the bits are to be washed, and then rearranged on the altar to recreate the ram. The whole thing is then to be burned.

The second ram is then to be slaughtered, the blood collected, and this time the priest is to be annointed on both ears, their right thumb, and their right toe. The rest is again to be sprinkled on the altar.

The run off of the blood, oil and...stuff...on the altar is then to be collected and kinda thrown all over the priest, all over the garments he is wearing, etc.

The fat, rump, right shoulder, and giblets, along with the bread, cakes, and wafers are to be held by the priest (they call it a "wave" offering) Then they are collected back from the priests and burned.

The rest of the Ram (left shoulder and breasts) are to be held by the priest, and then to be boiled actually in the sanctuary itself. Once cooked, the priest may eat it, plus any bread, cakes and waffers left over. If they cant eat it all, whats left, next morning is to be burned.

This procedure must be repeated SEVEN TIMES, over SEVEN DAYS
After each time the Alter is to be clensed (doesnt say how but I presume washed) and then to be annointed with oil.

Then they are considered consecrated :) The Altar aswell will be consecrated. So consecrated...GOD says a blessing of holiness is passed to whoever touches it, after the seventh performance.


GOD then institutes the daily sacrifices, these are to be a lamb in the morning, and a lamb before night.

I dont have a clue about the specifics because it refers to general offerings I havent read yet. But the first lamb is to be accompanied by flour and oil, and wine. All to be prepared...and then burned.

Says GOD finds the smell "sweet" and "pleasing" :unsure:
did you do this on the weekend?

Tyburn
05-12-2009, 11:27 PM
did you do this on the weekend?
No the Church of England Consecration Ceremony doesnt involve any lifestock...and definatly no blood :blink:

Miss Foxy
05-13-2009, 03:42 PM
did you do this on the weekend?
LMAO!!! I was shivering thinking the same thing!!!:huh:

rearnakedchoke
05-13-2009, 04:52 PM
No the Church of England Consecration Ceremony doesnt involve any lifestock...and definatly no blood :blink:
but is it not biblical law? shouldn't it be carry'd out?

rearnakedchoke
05-13-2009, 04:53 PM
LMAO!!! I was shivering thinking the same thing!!!:huh:
yeah, it is pretty in graphic .. not for the queezy ...

Tyburn
05-13-2009, 05:31 PM
but is it not biblical law? shouldn't it be carry'd out?
The laugh of this is. That Modern Day Jews claim they cant do the sacrifices because they have no Temple. BUT this Ceremonial can take place within a makeshift Temple, that can be built in the middle of the Desert, using EXACTLY the framework set out.

The Jews really have no excuse not to be carrying out the sacrifices right now.

So yes...it should be carried out, by the Jews, right now in this day and age. This part of the Law is very much a command to the Jewish specifically. Its a way of being able to part appease GOD without the need for Christ. We have Christ...HE WAS the sacrifice. But the Jews dont...so they still need to be doing this to please GOD to be honnest.

Miss Foxy
05-13-2009, 11:18 PM
The laugh of this is. That Modern Day Jews claim they cant do the sacrifices because they have no Temple. BUT this Ceremonial can take place within a makeshift Temple, that can be built in the middle of the Desert, using EXACTLY the framework set out.

The Jews really have no excuse not to be carrying out the sacrifices right now.

So yes...it should be carried out, by the Jews, right now in this day and age. This part of the Law is very much a command to the Jewish specifically. Its a way of being able to part appease GOD without the need for Christ. We have Christ...HE WAS the sacrifice. But the Jews dont...so they still need to be doing this to please GOD to be honnest.
Well if I am ever in the desert and I see some animals and Jews remind me to run! Dave your creeping me out lol..:wacko:

Tyburn
05-14-2009, 12:10 AM
So we have the Sacrificial Altar, The Offerings Table, and the Ark of the Covernant.

Now for another Altar. :w00t:

In design it looks like the Sacrificial Altar, with the horns at each corner, its wooden, its covered in gold, and it has the same system of rings and beams so it can be carried.

This Altar belongs inside the tabernakle, but on the public side of the curtain. Every morning, when its time for the priests to refill the lamps with oil to keep them burning, they will burn some insence on the Altar....and throughout the day its to be kepts burning. But its purely for insence...NO sacrifices on this Altar.

Once a year however, blood from the sin offerings is to be tranfered by the Priest to the four horns on the corner (in exactly the same manner as I described in the consecration, except that was on the sacrificial Altar...so the blood must be collected on one altar, and then smeared on the horns of the other Altar)

In order for anyone to enter the Tabernackle to see this Altar, which they are free to do. They must pay a small amount of money, that will be as ransom for their souls...its called Atonement Money...they are paying GOD to let Him, let them keep their souls :blink:

Just an update, I was right about the clensing of the Sacrficial Altar. Its to be washed with Water from a specially made brass water pitcher. The pitcher is to be kept behind the Sacrificial Altar which is infront of the door to the Tabernackle in the courtyard so everyone can see. Behind the door inside is the insence Altar, and the lamps, then the curtain, and then the offerings table, candlestick and the Ark. This is not only useful so the Sacrificial Altar can be cleaned, its also at the door to remind the priests to take a wash before they go inside

How to Consecrate the Grounds.

Basically its an oil annointing that should be sloshed all over the place, plus the equipment. The oil is to be mixed with various herbs and spices. This practise is STILL done in the Anglican Church. The oils are used for different things, and they have different incredients mixed in with them. This Oil is NOT to be used to anoint people...its for Relics

in the same manner.....GOD releases his own brand of purfume for the priests to wear, its basically francensence, with a few aromatic herbs thrown in. Wonder what it smells like :ninja:

Tyburn
05-14-2009, 12:12 AM
Dave your creeping me out lol..:wacko:
I'm so glad your enjoying this :laugh: