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KENTUCKYREDBONE
04-17-2009, 07:51 AM
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46667

atomdanger
04-17-2009, 09:26 AM
Wow...

Why does he care?

Crisco
04-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Wow...

Why does he care?

He's a muslim

rockdawg21
04-17-2009, 03:23 PM
Oh my God! Is that for REAL?

Crisco
04-17-2009, 03:46 PM
Oh my God! Is that for REAL?

I said it from the start


He's got a towel on his head a mile high.


but then again he is pro-choice so you never know

He is probably just a socialist NWOist

rockdawg21
04-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Ridiculous. I've said it in the past, it's amazing how the power of the press and some slick talking can make people blind to logic.

Crisco
04-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Don King said only in America

rockdawg21
04-17-2009, 04:43 PM
Don King said only in America
He also openly opposed Obama. Saw him on Glen Beck :)

NateR
04-17-2009, 04:52 PM
It's funny that Obama has no trouble plagiarizing Jesus, but refuses to acknowledge Him by name.

At this point, I think the possibility of Obama actually being a Christian is less than zero. I was never convinced to begin with, but this is irrefutable proof that he is not.

atomdanger
04-17-2009, 06:05 PM
I said it from the start


He's got a towel on his head a mile high.


but then again he is pro-choice so you never know

He is probably just a socialist NWOist

hahahahahaha I know this is a serious topic but that was hilarious!

atomdanger
04-17-2009, 06:06 PM
It's funny that Obama has no trouble plagiarizing Jesus, but refuses to acknowledge Him by name.

At this point, I think the possibility of Obama actually being a Christian is less than zero. I was never convinced to begin with, but this is irrefutable proof that he is not.

Yeah, I was surprised that more people didn't care about the very blatant "black power" "church" he went to.
If you can call a church with a clear racial motive a church at all.

rockdawg21
04-17-2009, 06:55 PM
Yeah, I was surprised that more people didn't care about the very blatant "black power" "church" he went to.
If you can call a church with a clear racial motive a church at all.
It's like calling Malcolm X a hero. He was a racist and spread hatred.

MLK, now that man was a hero.

Miss Foxy
04-17-2009, 07:16 PM
It's like calling Malcolm X a hero. He was a racist and spread hatred.

MLK, now that man was a hero.
:applause:

Crisco
04-17-2009, 09:04 PM
Islam is gay

J.B.
04-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Definitely a bad move by the administration, intentional or not.

atomdanger
04-17-2009, 09:43 PM
It's like calling Malcolm X a hero. He was a racist and spread hatred.

MLK, now that man was a hero.

I'm going to be completely honest,
I have not met, or heard of muslims who don't have hostile feelings towards another group of people.

I mean, the Koran/Qur'an says crap like

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 02:43 AM
He's a muslim

Do you have any proof that he is a Muslim? If by chance he is, does it matter? Why?

Chris F
04-18-2009, 03:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkzx071zBhA

Bonnie
04-18-2009, 03:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkzx071zBhA

It will be interesting to see if they hold "true" for requesting this for every place he speaks including foreign countries.

It really is scary how enamored so many people are with this mere man. This has happened so many times through history and it always ends badly for those idolizing their fake God(s).

I do believe there are people here on earth that can touch the lives of others and move them in good ways, but it is never ever a good thing when people start lifting man up like he is God. :no:

ufcfan2
04-18-2009, 05:07 AM
heh, religion is a touchy subject to discuss and it gets people rawled up. I do think Obama should be a little more intouch with 'religious' attitude of the nation..I don't consider America a Christin nation,but a nation of many faiths under one 'Flag'. I think we need to be more about our country than about our faith as a 'country'. Its fine and dandy whatever religion u believe as long as ur one goal is the success of the country u reside in.
Wasn't our four fathers kindof opposed of having/labeling America as a Christian nation that it should be seperated as such?
I'll just say this I'm not religious at all and I personally have no issue with 'under god' or anyof that stuff on our money or saying it in the Pledge of the Alligance..I think I'm pretty open to where and when religion should be used.
Im more upset with Obama and the 'fanatical racist preacher' than anything else.

NateR
04-18-2009, 05:37 AM
Wasn't our four fathers kindof opposed of having/labeling America as a Christian nation that it should be seperated as such?

Actually, the Founding Fathers acknowledged that they were creating a Christian nation. And while they didn't want any particular denomination of Christianity to have control over the government, they believed that it was Christian morality that would prevent our capitalist system from becoming too corrupt.

Also, they believed that our freedoms were a gift from GOD and thus no human being or government had the authority to infringe upon those freedoms.

George Washington said that without a dedication to religion and morality, then no one could consider himself a patriot of the United States.

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court said that it was in our best interests to only elect Christian leaders to run our Christian nation.

So, this modern notion that the Founding Fathers were trying to create a completely secular society is a myth that was started in the 1950s.

Tyburn
04-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Wow...

Why does he care?
I think it might have more to do with the fact he might not have wanted it directly behind him.

Think about what those Obama haters would have done with a picture of the monogram, and Obama placed directly beneith it. They would say that he chose deliberatley to stand benieth something like that to point to himself.

The fact that he covered it up shows he's aware that some people really do see him as a Messianic figure, and also, that his enemies are begining to use that against him

Sounds to me like it wasnt a jab at Christians so much as a request for a plain background...and certainly NOT a nice little symbol of Christ RIGHT above the Presidential head :laugh:

Tyburn
04-18-2009, 12:37 PM
It's funny that Obama has no trouble plagiarizing Jesus, but refuses to acknowledge Him by name.

At this point, I think the possibility of Obama actually being a Christian is less than zero. I was never convinced to begin with, but this is irrefutable proof that he is not.
maybe, maybe not...but He's certainly not Islamic...he's not radical enough.... :laugh:

rockdawg21
04-18-2009, 12:50 PM
Ugh, really saddened last night. A friend of mine whom, I've always considered a patriot, didn't see anything wrong with this. I told him what happened and all he had to say was, "It's separation of church & state." A piece of my heart almost died. Then he said "Alright, Obama hater." I no longer consider him a patriot, I really couldn't believe he didn't see anything wrong with this at all. Plus, this guy is a regular at his church, observes lent, etc.; a very active member of his church.

Tyburn
04-18-2009, 01:00 PM
A piece of my heart almost died.

:cry: :cry:

I think that if Obama was really that concerned about the monogram, rather then cover it up...perhaps he should have moved his stage elsewhere :huh:

or...not bothered to speak in a Hall which has Christian Symbology :unsure-1:

rearnakedchoke
04-18-2009, 01:24 PM
Ugh, really saddened last night. A friend of mine whom, I've always considered a patriot, didn't see anything wrong with this. I told him what happened and all he had to say was, "It's separation of church & state." A piece of my heart almost died. Then he said "Alright, Obama hater." I no longer consider him a patriot, I really couldn't believe he didn't see anything wrong with this at all. Plus, this guy is a regular at his church, observes lent, etc.; a very active member of his church.
sounds like a real good patriot .. smart dude ... church and state should be kept separate ....

Vizion
04-18-2009, 03:22 PM
sounds like a real good patriot .. smart dude ... church and state should be kept separate ....
Ok, so this is your view (tho its wrong)...so why does the church have to conform to the state's wishes then as was in this case?

If seperation of state is a valid concept why didn't NObama just have his speech in a great hall....see, because it doesn't work that way because NObama does not honor or respect the church.

Tyburn
04-18-2009, 03:40 PM
church and state should be kept separate ....
Why?

Your country is under Her Majesty, and she is Defender of the Anglican Denomination of Christianity

Although the United States dont back a specific denomination, It is expected that the Government will be run by Christians, and it is also true that the United States DOES use "National" Cathedral. Each State is represented by the flags lining both sides of the nave, and its an Anglican Cathedral (We're in full communion with The Episcopal Church of The United States)

I'm going to be visiting National this year :happydancing:

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 05:22 PM
Ugh, really saddened last night. A friend of mine whom, I've always considered a patriot, didn't see anything wrong with this. I told him what happened and all he had to say was, "It's separation of church & state." A piece of my heart almost died. Then he said "Alright, Obama hater." I no longer consider him a patriot, I really couldn't believe he didn't see anything wrong with this at all. Plus, this guy is a regular at his church, observes lent, etc.; a very active member of his church.

I see nothing wrong with it either. Did you read the reasoning behind the decision?

Julie Bataille from the university's press office e-mailed me that the White House had asked that all university signage and symbols behind the stage in Gaston Hall be covered.

"The White House wanted a simple backdrop of flags and pipe and drape for the speech, consistent with what they've done for other policy speeches," she wrote. "Frankly, the pipe and drape wasn't high enough by itself to fully cover the IHS and cross above the GU seal and it seemed most respectful to have them covered so as not to be seen out of context."

I respect his decision to do this, and if the folks at Georgetown didn't want this, they could have asked him to take his speech elsewhere.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 05:36 PM
Ok, so this is your view (tho its wrong)...so why does the church have to conform to the state's wishes then as was in this case?

If seperation of state is a valid concept why didn't NObama just have his speech in a great hall....see, because it doesn't work that way because NObama does not honor or respect the church.


Julie Bataille from the university's press office e-mailed me that the White House had asked that all university signage and symbols behind the stage in Gaston Hall be covered.

"The White House wanted a simple backdrop of flags and pipe and drape for the speech, consistent with what they've done for other policy speeches," she wrote. "Frankly, the pipe and drape wasn't high enough by itself to fully cover the IHS and cross above the GU seal and it seemed most respectful to have them covered so as not to be seen out of context."

I believe your view is wrong and rearnakedchoke's view holds up. If Georgetown didn't want to do it, they could have asked them to find another location. It wasn't only religious signage that was covered, it was "all university signage and symbols." Maybe you should direct your scorn at Georgetown.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=223862&title=baracknophobia-obey

Watch the part at 3:30 to the end at least, but enjoy the show.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 05:38 PM
Why?

Your country is under Her Majesty, and she is Defender of the Anglican Denomination of Christianity

Although the United States dont back a specific denomination, It is expected that the Government will be run by Christians, and it is also true that the United States DOES use "National" Cathedral. Each State is represented by the flags lining both sides of the nave, and its an Anglican Cathedral (We're in full communion with The Episcopal Church of The United States)

I'm going to be visiting National this year :happydancing:

I don't expect the U.S. government to be run by Christians. I have no problem if it is, as long as they keep their religion separate from their governmental duties.

J.B.
04-18-2009, 06:18 PM
I don't expect the U.S. government to be run by Christians. I have no problem if it is, as long as they keep their religion separate from their governmental duties.

Separating yourself from your religion is not something you do when you are truly a believer in God. Anybody who says that they do is a snake in the grass in my opinion. It's one thing to separate your personal and professional life, but separating yourself from your core values and beliefs is not human nature. Regardless of which religion you follow.

This idea of the separation of church and state is so blown out of proportion and full of propaganda it is disgusting, and it's one of the things that is sending our nation down a scary path.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 07:02 PM
Separating yourself from your religion is not something you do when you are truly a believer in God. Anybody who says that they do is a snake in the grass in my opinion. It's one thing to separate your personal and professional life, but separating yourself from your core values and beliefs is not human nature. Regardless of which religion you follow.

This idea of the separation of church and state is so blown out of proportion and full of propaganda it is disgusting, and it's one of the things that is sending our nation down a scary path.


You can keep your beliefs and not separate yourself from your religion while performing your governmental duties, as you stated. It's one thing to separate your personal and professional life, but separating yourself from your core values and beliefs is not human nature

What path is the concept of separation of church and state sending us down? I'm pretty sure that if the religion was something other than Christianity, Christians would believe that it was a great concept.

NateR
04-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Ugh, really saddened last night. A friend of mine whom, I've always considered a patriot, didn't see anything wrong with this. I told him what happened and all he had to say was, "It's separation of church & state." A piece of my heart almost died. Then he said "Alright, Obama hater." I no longer consider him a patriot, I really couldn't believe he didn't see anything wrong with this at all. Plus, this guy is a regular at his church, observes lent, etc.; a very active member of his church.

In situations like that, you kind of feel like you've stepped into an Invasion of the Body Snatchers type scenario. You just have to wonder, "Who are you and what have you done with the person who loved his country and cared about its future?"

Your friend obviously sold out and allowed himself to be bribed by Obama.

NateR
04-18-2009, 07:55 PM
You can keep your beliefs and not separate yourself from your religion while performing your governmental duties, as you stated.

What path is the concept of separation of church and state sending us down? I'm pretty sure that if the religion was something other than Christianity, Christians would believe that it was a great concept.

I'm assuming you mistyped that and meant to say that Christians would not think it was a great concept.

However, not all religions are the same. That's the mistake that atheists and non-believers make. These concepts of freedom and liberty only really existed under Christianity in the days of the Founding Fathers. Even today look at the state of human rights in Muslim and Hindu nations. Those two religions simply are not compatible with America's founding documents.

While I agree that there should be no state run religion. I don't want all Americans forced to be Catholics or Pentecostals or Baptists or even Presbyterians. People should be allowed to choose for themselves. But that's a far cry from this modern notion that government officials should leave their religion at the door when it comes to matters of state.

In fact, it's unfair to ask that of people. Our government officials need to be allowed to be true to their beliefs. If they believe that abortion is wrong solely because of their belief in GOD, then they need to vote according to that belief.

If a Congressman man claims to be a Christian on the campaign trail, then he really needs to act like a Christian when he gets into office and vote according to his Christian values. Otherwise he's just a liar and not trustworthy either way.

If the people don't like that he is going to lead the way GOD wants him to lead, then the people can vote him out of office in the next election. The system is already designed to correct itself in that way, so we shouldn't be arbitrarily forcing secular values onto our government officials. Let them lead according to their conscience, not some bizarre misinterpretation of the Constitution.

J.B.
04-18-2009, 07:56 PM
You can keep your beliefs and not separate yourself from your religion while performing your governmental duties, as you stated.

What path is the concept of separation of church and state sending us down? I'm pretty sure that if the religion was something other than Christianity, Christians would believe that it was a great concept.


First of all, the concept of separation of church and state is something that has been perverted over time and is modernly used by secular progressives to forward their own political agenda. It's inception was to prevent there from being a state created church, not to separate our government from it's Judeo Christian values.

As for the path our country is headed down; I said that the modern concept of separation of church and state is ONE of the things sending our nation down a scary path, not the only thing. Regardless, I would say that it's that kind of secular progressive ideology that is trying to altar the very moral fiber of our country. That is scary.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 07:59 PM
In situations like that, you kind of feel like you've stepped into an Invasion of the Body Snatchers type scenario. You just have to wonder, "Who are you and what have you done with the person who loved his country and cared about its future?"

Your friend obviously sold out and allowed himself to be bribed by Obama.


How did he sell out? I see a man who still loves his country and his religion.

If a Muslim became president and gave a speech in a mosque, would you want the symbols of the Muslim faith covered?

NateR
04-18-2009, 08:14 PM
How did he sell out? I see a man who still loves his country and his religion.

If a Muslim became president and gave a speech in a mosque, would you want the symbols of the Muslim faith covered?

NOBODY who loves this country would want to see everything it was founded upon dismantled. Anyone who wants capitalism replaced with socialism is not a patriot. Anyone who is more interested in fairness over liberty, does not love America.

It's like saying, "I love watching the UFC, but just wish it wasn't so violent. And why does there have to be a winner and a loser? Why can't we redesign the system so that everyone is a winner?"

Do you understand how silly it would be for someone to claim to love an organization, yet oppose the very principles it is founded upon?

J.B.
04-18-2009, 08:19 PM
NOBODY who loves this country would want to see everything it was founded upon dismantled. Anyone who wants capitalism replaced with socialism is not a patriot. Anyone who is more interested in fairness over liberty, does not love America.

It's like saying, "I love watching the UFC, but just wish it wasn't so violent. And why does there have to be a winner and a loser? Why can't we redesign the system so that everyone is a winner?"

Do you understand how silly it would be for someone to claim to love an organization, yet oppose the very principles it is founded upon?


Good analogy, but you know they are going to argue that they are not changing the fundamentals, just changing the rules. :laugh:

ufcfan2
04-18-2009, 08:55 PM
Can't we all just get along.


My views:
I love my country no matter how imperfect it is. I don't need to believe in god,be a christian,buddahist,scientologist,or mormon to prove it. I have no problems with people believing in god,just don't push it on me and I won't push back.. I have no issues with the phrase god on money or in pledge of alligeance. I'd rather our politicians leave religion out of their policy foreign and domestic,as I believe u can achieve a common goal w/o the use of religion. I have no problems with America being considered a 'christian nation',though I'm not sure who decided it should be when we are a melting pot of all religions,ethnic groups and supposed to treat all as one. I believe Jesus existed,but not his divinity(just don't buy the whole walk on water, water to whine stuff).
They have the 'new testement' why cant the Koran have a new version and leave all the killing of infedels out would do wonders imo. I believe Britney Spears is misunderstood and a victim of her peers(managers,etc.). I believe all pappurazzi should be run over when gettin the chance ;)
Okay Im just babbling on now :) I think its time to go play some mind altering music and games:happydancing:

rockdawg21
04-18-2009, 10:09 PM
In situations like that, you kind of feel like you've stepped into an Invasion of the Body Snatchers type scenario. You just have to wonder, "Who are you and what have you done with the person who loved his country and cared about its future?"

Your friend obviously sold out and allowed himself to be bribed by Obama.
You know what's even worse Nate? I failed to mention that he was in the Air Force for a long time. He used to never speak his mind, and he really doesn't. Anytime I question Obama's policies, all he has to say is, "I think he's doing fine, you're just an Obama hater." He's one of those people who I think shouldn't vote, or rather, shouldn't be allowed to vote, because he hasn't taken the time to actively view the candidates' positions and policies.

rearnakedchoke
04-18-2009, 11:29 PM
It's like saying, "I love watching the UFC, but just wish it wasn't so violent.

but then don't tell people they can come to this country and say they have freedom of religion .... say to them, you can come to this country and practice your religion, but realize we are going to only recognize Christianity and run our State with Christian values ..

then that is fine, i could care less, but people are not being told that when they come here ...

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:35 PM
I'm assuming you mistyped that and meant to say that Christians would not think it was a great concept.

No mistake on my part, if a Muslim was president, I think that Christians would think the concept of separation of church and state was a good thing.

However, not all religions are the same. That's the mistake that atheists and non-believers make.

No atheists or non-believers who I know make these mistakes. You are making a general statement that doesn't hold up. Do you really think that atheists and non-believers aren't capable of differentiating between religions?

These concepts of freedom and liberty only really existed under Christianity in the days of the Founding Fathers. Even today look at the state of human rights in Muslim and Hindu nations. Those two religions simply are not compatible with America's founding documents.

Look at how the Bush administration and his Christian beliefs took away human rights by allowing torture and suspending habeas corpus. That isn't compatible with America's founding documents either.



...

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:39 PM
NOBODY who loves this country would want to see everything it was founded upon dismantled. Anyone who wants capitalism replaced with socialism is not a patriot. Anyone who is more interested in fairness over liberty, does not love America.

It's like saying, "I love watching the UFC, but just wish it wasn't so violent. And why does there have to be a winner and a loser? Why can't we redesign the system so that everyone is a winner?"

Do you understand how silly it would be for someone to claim to love an organization, yet oppose the very principles it is founded upon?


Nice dodge of the question. How is covering up all signage and symbols of a university opposing the principles our country was founded on? Did you not read that they did so to keep this speech consistent with the with other policy speeches?

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:45 PM
NOBODY who loves this country would want to see everything it was founded upon dismantled. Anyone who wants capitalism replaced with socialism is not a patriot. Anyone who is more interested in fairness over liberty, does not love America.

Did you question the prior administration when it endorsed and started socialist programs? I don't see anyone wishing everything this country was founded on dismantled.

It's like saying, "I love watching the UFC, but just wish it wasn't so violent. And why does there have to be a winner and a loser? Why can't we redesign the system so that everyone is a winner?"

Do you understand how silly it would be for someone to claim to love an organization, yet oppose the very principles it is founded upon?

What principles are being opposed in your opinion?

...

atomdanger
04-18-2009, 11:48 PM
How did he sell out? I see a man who still loves his country and his religion.

If a Muslim became president and gave a speech in a mosque, would you want the symbols of the Muslim faith covered?


I would find it extremely disrespectful and would NEVER go into some place that wasn't my own and ask people to cover up signs / symbols of their religion.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:49 PM
You know what's even worse Nate? I failed to mention that he was in the Air Force for a long time. He used to never speak his mind, and he really doesn't. Anytime I question Obama's policies, all he has to say is, "I think he's doing fine, you're just an Obama hater." He's one of those people who I think shouldn't vote, or rather, shouldn't be allowed to vote, because he hasn't taken the time to actively view the candidates' positions and policies.

So, you get to determine who gets to vote because your friends views don't match your own? How do you know he hasn't taken his time to view the positions and policies? Is it because he dares go against what you wish? I can't believe that you would wish that a veteran who has served his country be denied the ability to vote in the country that he so proudly served. That saddens me.

atomdanger
04-18-2009, 11:51 PM
Do you understand how silly it would be for someone to claim to love an organization, yet oppose the very principles it is founded upon?

Like a KKK member saying they don't like the racist part,
or a Muslim saying he loves jews.

and its odd, because I've come across stuff like this before,
It drives me up a wall, if you're a part of something, and claim to love it,
then you've got to agree with its major ideals at least.

I've talked to "Christians" who don't think anybody is going to hell,
or who bend certain rules or pick apart certain things in the bible sort of creating their own hybrid Christian religion to fit their own lifestyle.

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:51 PM
I would find it extremely disrespectful and would NEVER go into some place that wasn't my own and ask people to cover up signs / symbols of their religion.

It wasn't only religious things that were covered up, and the reasoning behind it I can see. I think directing your ire towards the Georgetown people who allowed this to occur would be of more benefit, after all, they allowed it. For me, it is a non-issue.

atomdanger
04-18-2009, 11:54 PM
It wasn't only religious things that were covered up, and the reasoning behind it I can see.
I think directing your ire towards the Georgetown people who allowed this to occur would be of more benefit, after all, they allowed it. For me, it is a non-issue.

What else was covered?

I didn't see anything in the article about covering other things up.
and what reasoning behind it do you see?

Buzzard
04-18-2009, 11:57 PM
Like a KKK member saying they don't like the racist part,
or a Muslim saying he loves jews.

and its odd, because I've come across stuff like this before,
It drives me up a wall, if you're a part of something, and claim to love it,
then you've got to agree with its major ideals at least.

I've talked to "Christians" who don't think anybody is going to hell,
or who bend certain rules or pick apart certain things in the bible sort of creating their own hybrid Christian religion to fit their own lifestyle.

Aren't Christians who have sex outside of marriage bending the rules to make it fit into their lifestyle? Everyone seems to have their own version of what rules are applicable to them. Not a slam on Christians, because I feel all people do what they feel needs to be done, knowing that sometimes it's not the right thing to do. Atheists, non-believers and other religions included, even including myself.

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 12:02 AM
What else was covered?

I didn't see anything in the article about covering other things up.
and what reasoning behind it do you see?

Julie Bataille from the university's press office e-mailed me that the White House had asked that all university signage and symbols behind the stage in Gaston Hall be covered.

I don't know specifically what other stuff was covered up, as it wasn't pertinent to the story.

The reasoning being that,
"The White House wanted a simple backdrop of flags and pipe and drape for the speech, consistent with what they've done for other policy speeches," she wrote.

Quote from Julie Bataille.

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:33 AM
No atheists or non-believers who I know make these mistakes. You are making a general statement that doesn't hold up. Do you really think that atheists and non-believers aren't capable of differentiating between religions?

In my experience, yes.

Look at how the Bush administration and his Christian beliefs took away human rights by allowing torture and suspending habeas corpus. That isn't compatible with America's founding documents either.

It depends on your definition of torture. I'm not sure if I would consider it torture if it didn't cause permanent physical damage. Also Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War as well and that was against American citizens not terrorists.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:39 AM
I don't expect the U.S. government to be run by Christians. I have no problem if it is, as long as they keep their religion separate from their governmental duties.
If you are a Christian...you apply it to everything you do.

The Founders wanted Christians, they just didnt want any one denomination of Christianity.

Remember, one of your Presidents said you couldnt effectively be an American without being Christian.

We've had this disscussion before havent we. Of course you dont care, you dont recognise what the constitution really promotes in the first place. How blunt do you want me to be

If you have the wrong defintion of what an American is, you'll get a wrong criteria for what the American Government should be. You appear to have both. To be American, it is essential strictly speaking, to be Christain...therefore there is no need for the Church and State to join. The same people in the Church, are already in the Government. They dont need Christians to stand over them and guide them...because they already ARE christians.

Dont blame me for the truth, its so not my fault :sad:

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:40 AM
Did you question the prior administration when it endorsed and started socialist programs? I don't see anyone wishing everything this country was founded on dismantled.

You obviously don't know anything about the Progressive movement. I don't agree with socialism whether it comes from Republicans or Democrats.

What principles are being opposed in your opinion?

A capitalist economy that awards success, not failure. Also the basic concept of freedom. People seem to be willing to trade that in for safety and fairness.

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:42 AM
Nice dodge of the question. How is covering up all signage and symbols of a university opposing the principles our country was founded on? Did you not read that they did so to keep this speech consistent with the with other policy speeches?

Actually I was talking about rockdawg21's "friend" not Obama, so try to keep my comments in their proper context.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:43 AM
In my experience, yes.



It depends on your definition of torture. I'm not sure if I would consider it torture if it didn't cause permanent physical damage. Also Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War as well and that was against American citizens not terrorists.
The South effectively lost the right to call themselves citizens. They effectively were criminals for going against America, and that essentially branded them Terrorists.

They might have been American citizens, and they might be re-accepted post the war

but during the war...they were Criminals until they broke free and claimed their independance...and that only happens if the break away movement is successful. They were not.

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:50 AM
The South effectively lost the right to call themselves citizens. They effectively were criminals for going against America, and that essentially branded them Terrorists.

They might have been American citizens, and they might be re-accepted post the war

but during the war...they were Criminals until they broke free and claimed their independance...and that only happens if the break away movement is successful. They were not.

Well, that's how it could have been handled, however Lincoln made it very clear, when the South surrendered, that they were still Americans and all was forgiven.

However, during the war, he suspended their civil rights simply because he wanted to win the war.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:53 AM
Well, that's how it could have been handled, however Lincoln made it very clear, when the South surrendered, that they were still Americans and all was forgiven.

However, during the war, he suspended their civil rights simply because he wanted to win the war.
thats because he forgave them, when they surrendered it was like they admitted they were wrong.

well when a Criminal or terrorist does that, and pays their dues, they are allowed back to be a citizen

and...of course he wanted to win.

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:56 AM
thats because he forgave them, when they surrendered it was like they admitted they were wrong.

well when a Criminal or terrorist does that, and pays their dues, they are allowed back to be a citizen

and...of course he wanted to win.

The difference is that the terrorists captured in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. were never American citizens to begin with.

And that's exactly why habeas corpus MUST be suspended for suspected terrorists today, because we want to prevent another 9/11.

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:58 AM
In my experience, yes.

So every atheist and non-religious person whom you have met were incapable of differentiating between different religions? Wow, that's amazing or you are stretching the truth.


It depends on your definition of torture. I'm not sure if I would consider it torture if it didn't cause permanent physical damage. Also Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War as well and that was against American citizens not terrorists.

Suspected terrorists. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing comes to mind.

Well, whether you consider it torture or not is not the question.

Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.


From this link. http://digg.com/d1iDv2

So, if the U.S. considered it torture and convicted someone for this act, isn't the same act today torture in the eyes of our legal system?

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 07:00 AM
Remember, one of your Presidents said you couldnt effectively be an American without being Christian.


Can you show me the direct quote which you attribute to this president?

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 07:03 AM
You obviously don't know anything about the Progressive movement. I don't agree with socialism whether it comes from Republicans or Democrats.


And you obviously love to keep making general assumptions which have no basis in truth.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 07:08 AM
The difference is that the terrorists captured in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. were never American citizens to begin with.

And that's exactly why habeas corpus MUST be suspended for suspected terrorists today, because we want to prevent another 9/11.
well...its different for people who arent citizens to begin.

Torture is a difficult subject. Personally I dont mind that governments use it, because they use it on law breakers, and its the law that gives them their rights. IF they forfit the law, why should the law defend them?

I believe that the penal system is TOO humane in many ways. Prisoners must be kept alive, but they only deserve those basic rights. They deserve to be fed and given medical care if they need it. They do NOT deserve to be kept in centrally heating, they do NOT deserve sunday lunches, They do NOT deserve television, they do NOT deserve X-Box or computers.

They are bloody criminals...They get free television...I have to pay for a liscece. They get X-Box which I cant afford, they get central heating, I pay for my own accomodation and it doesnt have heating.

If the State requires information from them, and they wont give it, the State has its RIGHTS also. Charged with the protection of law abiding citizens, the state should not think twice about violating rights that criminals are no longer entitled to.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 07:10 AM
Can you show me the direct quote which you attribute to this president?
Nathan posted it in this thread

He said that one president said you couldnt consider yourself a patriot without being Christian....look back a few pages. I think he was paraphrasing the President...but i've seen him post THE quote before...if you ask him nicely perhaps he'll provide you with even more then just the one quote. :)

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 07:15 AM
Nathan posted it in this thread

He said that one president said you couldnt consider yourself a patriot without being Christian....look back a few pages. I think he was paraphrasing the President...but i've seen him post THE quote before...if you ask him nicely perhaps he'll provide you with even more then just the one quote. :)

He never directly quoted it. He attributed a quote to him without ever actually posting any information as to where he got this quote. Unless I missed it. If that is the case, then I stand corrected.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 07:19 AM
He never directly quoted it. He attributed a quote to him without ever actually posting any information as to where he got this quote. Unless I missed it. If that is the case, then I stand corrected.
he has posted the direct quote before.

Ask him for it. I'm sure he'll write it down for you.

btw...waterboarding doesnt kill anyone. Its hardly a war crime it doesnt leave any marks, and is no more dangerous then ducking. :blink:

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 07:23 AM
well...its different for people who arent citizens to begin.

Torture is a difficult subject. Personally I dont mind that governments use it, because they use it on law breakers, and its the law that gives them their rights. IF they forfit the law, why should the law defend them?

I would gather that you would care if it were you or your family suspected of a wrong and were tortured just because they could. Being a suspect does not necessarily mean you are guilty.

I believe that the penal system is TOO humane in many ways. Prisoners must be kept alive, but they only deserve those basic rights. They deserve to be fed and given medical care if they need it. They do NOT deserve to be kept in centrally heating, they do NOT deserve sunday lunches, They do NOT deserve television, they do NOT deserve X-Box or computers.

I don't like the multitude of benefits prisoners get, but I won't go as far as saying they should be tortured. You have quite an evil side about you.

They are bloody criminals...They get free television...I have to pay for a liscece. They get X-Box which I cant afford, they get central heating, I pay for my own accomodation and it doesnt have heating.

Perhaps you should move somewhere where there is heat.

If the State requires information from them, and they wont give it, the State has its RIGHTS also. Charged with the protection of law abiding citizens, the state should not think twice about violating rights that criminals are no longer entitled to.

Do you think the state should torture suspected criminals? If it turns out that they tortured an innocent person, then what?

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 07:27 AM
he has posted the direct quote before.

Ask him for it. I'm sure he'll write it down for you.

btw...waterboarding doesnt kill anyone. Its hardly a war crime it doesnt leave any marks, and is no more dangerous then ducking. :blink:

Did you read where the U.S. tried and convicted someone for the war crime of waterboarding in the link and quote from the article I posted? There are many ways in which someone could physically and mentally hurt you quite badly without leaving marks. If you think only leaving marks makes a war crime, then you really have no concept of right and wrong.

NateR
04-19-2009, 07:35 AM
He never directly quoted it. He attributed a quote to him without ever actually posting any information as to where he got this quote. Unless I missed it. If that is the case, then I stand corrected.

George Washington's Farewell Address to the nation, 1796
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

atomdanger
04-19-2009, 07:40 AM
well...its different for people who arent citizens to begin.

Torture is a difficult subject. Personally I dont mind that governments use it, because they use it on law breakers, and its the law that gives them their rights. IF they forfit the law, why should the law defend them?

I believe that the penal system is TOO humane in many ways. Prisoners must be kept alive, but they only deserve those basic rights. They deserve to be fed and given medical care if they need it. They do NOT deserve to be kept in centrally heating, they do NOT deserve sunday lunches, They do NOT deserve television, they do NOT deserve X-Box or computers.

They are bloody criminals...They get free television...I have to pay for a liscece. They get X-Box which I cant afford, they get central heating, I pay for my own accomodation and it doesnt have heating.

If the State requires information from them, and they wont give it, the State has its RIGHTS also. Charged with the protection of law abiding citizens, the state should not think twice about violating rights that criminals are no longer entitled to.

Wrong.
They were torturing people who hadn't been convicted of anything.
So....
Oh... and what prison gives free television? In Prison here you (inmate) pay for cable, and for your tv.
They also do not get computers here.

but heat? Come on.... People make mistakes,
if we treat people like animals when they are in prison,
they certainly won't come out and do anything good.
That is what we SHOULD want for people who have made MISTAKES

atomdanger
04-19-2009, 07:40 AM
haha sorry, as the resident felon I feel the need to stick up for the bad guys.
Its easy to look on the outside in, Prison is very very far from humane.

NateR
04-19-2009, 07:45 AM
So every atheist and non-religious person whom you have met were incapable of differentiating between different religions? Wow, that's amazing or you are stretching the truth.

Every atheists I've known just dismiss all religions equally. If they regard one religion more highly than another, then they've never admitted it to me.

Suspected terrorists. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing comes to mind.


Enemy combatants. :)

The rules are different during warfare. If we gave Nazi and Japanese POW's the same rights as American citizens, then we never would have won WW2.

Anyways, do you think we should convict the pilots who dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with war crimes? Or what about President Truman who ordered the use of the atomic bombs?

Those two bombs incinerated over 220,000 Japanese civilians. Kind of makes dunking the heads of enemy combatants in a little bit of water seem tame by comparison.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 01:11 PM
Do you think the state should torture suspected criminals? If it turns out that they tortured an innocent person, then what?
then they better be able to give good compsensation.

It would mean your Government would have to be a little more sure on its facts, a little tighter with its dealings...then they would make fewer mistakes

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Every atheists I've known just dismiss all religions equally. If they regard one religion more highly than another, then they've never admitted it to me.



Enemy combatants. :)

The rules are different during warfare. If we gave Nazi and Japanese POW's the same rights as American citizens, then we never would have won WW2.

Anyways, do you think we should convict the pilots who dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with war crimes? Or what about President Truman who ordered the use of the atomic bombs?

Those two bombs incinerated over 220,000 Japanese civilians. Kind of makes dunking the heads of enemy combatants in a little bit of water seem tame by comparison.
you make a good point.

The United States wouldnt have tried that guy for warcrimes if he'd used waterboarding against anyone other then THERE citizens. Its not about waterboarding...its about their citizens

As for the the Atom bomb...welll...it would be the Japanese who would press for war crimes...but they dare not...the rest of the world supported the United States...they stand alone...and the post-modern Japanese dont agree with their predecessors...so they probably understand the American response

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 01:16 PM
Wrong.
They were torturing people who hadn't been convicted of anything.
So....
Oh... and what prison gives free television? In Prison here you (inmate) pay for cable, and for your tv.
They also do not get computers here.

but heat? Come on.... People make mistakes,
if we treat people like animals when they are in prison,
they certainly won't come out and do anything good.
That is what we SHOULD want for people who have made MISTAKES
I was talking about England and how it deals with Prisoners.

I have family who work in the prison system :ninja: (well with young offenders)

Waterboarding wont leave permanent marks nor health problems...it might be uncomfortable though...but its no worse then ducking :laugh: Its almost not really torture. When you think of Torture...you think of equipment like The Rack, or suspension of some kind....you dont think of ducking someone.

you can relax because you know they cant kill you, or else they dont get your information...whereas with the rack...they can leave you with shattered limbs whether they get the information or not. THAT is Torture...and to my best knowledge your Government dont use it.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 01:21 PM
George Washington's Farewell Address to the nation, 1796
:) So....George Washingto, wouldnt think of Buzzard or infact any heathen, as being able to be American (after all, a Patriot is just another name for an American in this example, perhaps used when Americans go militant also)

rockdawg21
04-19-2009, 02:22 PM
So, you get to determine who gets to vote because your friends views don't match your own? How do you know he hasn't taken his time to view the positions and policies? Is it because he dares go against what you wish? I can't believe that you would wish that a veteran who has served his country be denied the ability to vote in the country that he so proudly served. That saddens me.
You overlooked what I'd typed, I questioned Obama's positions on policies and my friend didn't even KNOW Obama's stance on policies. Anytime something is questioned to him, he can't defend the policies, because he doesn't know Obama's policies. That's an uneducated voter. People who are uneducated as to the policies of the candidates shouldn't voted or even be allowed to vote. In this case, he just bought into the media and Obama's charisma.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 02:33 PM
You overlooked what I'd typed, I questioned Obama's positions on policies and my friend didn't even KNOW Obama's stance on policies. Anytime something is questioned to him, he can't defend the policies, because he doesn't know Obama's policies. That's an uneducated voter. People who are uneducated as to the policies of the candidates shouldn't voted or even be allowed to vote. In this case, he just bought into the media and Obama's charisma.
I dont think Obama knows what his policies are. I think he's making them up as he goes along...because when he was asked about things, after being ellected, but before taking Office...he didnt seem to know. He blagged it well...but he didnt seem to know.

Thats his inexperience showing. I so think he makes it up as he goes along. Which is fine if the Nation stays at peace...but if another terrorist attack were to happen...or another war needed to be fought...WTF would he do then?

Thank GOD he wasnt ellected back eight odd years ago...and lets pray that GOD doesnt allow anymore acts of that nature to happen, especially not now. The United States is fighting two unending wars. Both England and the United States are withdrawing from one...and I still think its a bit early...hopefully, GOD will strengthen the soverignty of Iraq to be able to function without Allied Support....but...She, re-born, just like Israel, is surrounded by Lions who would like nothing more then to pounce.

Then there is Afghanistan, a completely Just war, but one in which due to terrain, we just never seem to actually make much headway. We gain land, we loooose land, and its a never ending game of gridlocked strategy, where almost trench warfare is back in style on the front. Its still two enemy forces hiding behind rocks and sitting in ravines smashing each other with small arms fire.

Iran has gone silent. Maybe they too have bought into the mystique of Obama. I hope thats the reason, and not that they are planning something. Syria has fallen Silent, but she still secretly sponcers Terror groups in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. North Korea keep launching test rockets...heck even the African Pirates think its alright to hold American boats hostage, despite the danger of snipers...

...and still the American and With it, Western World, economy hangs dangerously close to collapse.

Who would take the Obama Risk in such a political and financial climate...only the Americans :unsure-1: (or those who voted him in, at any rate)

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:05 PM
George Washington's Farewell Address to the nation, 1796

Thanks for posting that NateR.

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.

To political prosperity

In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

I will say that he does appear to support the blending of politics and religion, in order to develop a moral base for creating the conditions for a proper political arena. He does not state that one cannot be patriotic if one is not religious. He states that there may be individuals whose morality isn't guided by religion, but in the sense of government, that is not the case. Religion is required to develop the moral base for foundations of law.

rockdawg21
04-19-2009, 06:14 PM
I dont think Obama knows what his policies are. I think he's making them up as he goes along...because when he was asked about things, after being ellected, but before taking Office...he didnt seem to know. He blagged it well...but he didnt seem to know.
EXACTLY!!! :happy0159: :applause:

The only thing is, I haven't found an Obama supporter yet who seems to know this! The guy changes his mind on a lot of things. He says one thing, then as he gets elected, does something else. Seriously, why do people think this is actually possible?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc

LOL, for good measure, this video is funny too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv1EKBsPedo&feature=related

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:20 PM
You overlooked what I'd typed, I questioned Obama's positions on policies and my friend didn't even KNOW Obama's stance on policies. Anytime something is questioned to him, he can't defend the policies, because he doesn't know Obama's policies. That's an uneducated voter. People who are uneducated as to the policies of the candidates shouldn't voted or even be allowed to vote. In this case, he just bought into the media and Obama's charisma.

I didn't overlook what you typed. Again, you wish to deny a veteran who has served his country the right to vote. What policies did you question him on? Did you know the ins and outs of every policy for your candidate? What type of test would you require people be given in order to gain the right to vote? Would basic spelling and grammar skills be required? If so, over half of the country would be denied.

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:23 PM
Thanks for posting that NateR.



I will say that he does appear to support the blending of politics and religion, in order to develop a moral base for creating the conditions for a proper political arena. He does not state that one cannot be patriotic if one is not religious. He states that there may be individuals whose morality isn't guided by religion, but in the sense of government, that is not the case. Religion is required to develop the moral base for foundations of law.
at least it barrs heathen from the Government :laugh:

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:27 PM
Every atheists I've known just dismiss all religions equally. If they regard one religion more highly than another, then they've never admitted it to me.



Enemy combatants. :)

The rules are different during warfare. If we gave Nazi and Japanese POW's the same rights as American citizens, then we never would have won WW2.

Anyways, do you think we should convict the pilots who dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with war crimes? Or what about President Truman who ordered the use of the atomic bombs?

Those two bombs incinerated over 220,000 Japanese civilians. Kind of makes dunking the heads of enemy combatants in a little bit of water seem tame by comparison.

How can you base the outcome of WW2 solely on the rights given to POW's? I would bet that many veterans are right now turning over in their graves at that comment. That is a horrible slap in the face to all veterans of that war.

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:29 PM
:) So....George Washingto, wouldnt think of Buzzard or infact any heathen, as being able to be American (after all, a Patriot is just another name for an American in this example, perhaps used when Americans go militant also)

If I give you a dollar, will you go buy a clue?

Buzzard
04-19-2009, 06:32 PM
at least it barrs heathen from the Government :laugh:

Really? What did they teach you in school?

rockdawg21
04-19-2009, 06:35 PM
I didn't overlook what you typed. Again, you wish to deny a veteran who has served his country the right to vote. What policies did you question him on? Did you know the ins and outs of every policy for your candidate? What type of test would you require people be given in order to gain the right to vote? Would basic spelling and grammar skills be required? If so, over half of the country would be denied.
lol, you're still overlooking it. I think it's great he's served the country, but to vote blindly is not how voting should be done. For God's sakes, at least watch 1 debate and make a decision upon that.

I don't have to go into detail on that or explain that to you. The point being that I questioned simple policies and Obama and McCain's stances on basic issues and all he really had to say was that I'm just an Obama hater.

Basic spelling and grammar? Gimme a break, that has nothing to do with this conversation. Well, maybe if the test were English only, lol. As for a test, there's really no way to do that. I'm simply voicing my opinion that there should be a way to do things, but there really isn't anything that can be done about that. Which is why America is great, because we have the RIGHT TO VOTE! The only thing, maybe, would be a simple 10-point questionnaire that asks a question, then choose the appropriate candidate for each issue. I guarantee most voters would fail that (failing, meaning less than 60%).

NateR
04-19-2009, 06:39 PM
How can you base the outcome of WW2 solely on the rights given to POW's? I would bet that many veterans are right now turning over in their graves at that comment. That is a horrible slap in the face to all veterans of that war.

:rolleyes:

No. As a veteran, I understand that you don't treat POW's as "innocent until proven guilty" if you have any intention of winning a war.

Vizion
04-19-2009, 06:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc

LOL, for good measure, this video is funny too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv1EKBsPedo&feature=relatedWe are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO f-ng screwed. :scared0011: :scared0011: :scared0011: :scared0011: :scared0011: :scared0011:

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:43 PM
If I give you a dollar, will you go buy a clue?
Dollars are two a pound my precious :laugh:

If Barack Obama can lead the most powerful nation on the planet with enough dollars in his stimula package to buy as many clues as he want...and still not be sure of his own policies...

Why would I want a Dollar anyway...I have THREE pinned to the Flag on my wall :happydancing:

Tyburn
04-19-2009, 06:45 PM
Really? What did they teach you in school?
More about America then they seemed to have taught you, thats for sure. :happydancing:

rockdawg21
04-22-2009, 05:48 PM
So where did Buzzard go? Hopefully, he buzzed off.

Tyburn
04-22-2009, 05:51 PM
he quit :happydancing:

Buzzard
04-22-2009, 07:36 PM
So where did Buzzard go? Hopefully, he buzzed off.

Here I am to shatter your hopes.:wink:

You don't like being challenged, do you?

Crisco
04-22-2009, 08:04 PM
Here I am to shatter your hopes.:wink:

You don't like being challenged, do you?

Liberals are so witty :)

Tyburn
04-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Liberals are so witty :)
:laugh: :laugh:

NateR
04-22-2009, 08:30 PM
Here I am to shatter your hopes.:wink:

Just like President Obama. :ninja:

Crisco
04-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Just like President Obama. :ninja:

But the conservatives are genius!

Crisco
04-22-2009, 08:42 PM
You know whats great about being a liberal?

You never have to know where you stand... the media always tells you what to feel and when to feel it. It's AWESOME.

Miss Foxy
04-22-2009, 08:49 PM
You know whats great about being a liberal?

You never have to know where you stand... the media always tells you what to feel and when to feel it. It's AWESOME.
Really now?

Buzzard
04-22-2009, 08:58 PM
You know whats great about being a liberal?

You never have to know where you stand... the media always tells you what to feel and when to feel it. It's AWESOME.

You seem to fit into your mold quite well.:ninja:

Crisco
04-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Really now?

Depending of course on how liberal you actually are :wink:

I'm actually more of a moderate. I truly believe the constitution should govern this country.

I don't feel that religious law should be implemented no matter what the religion.

As a Christian the last thing I want is anyone to be forced to follow a Christian life style. It defeats the purpose of becoming saved.

I'm against gay marriage for many reasons not just religious and I feel our government is very corrupt is every single aspect.

Crisco
04-22-2009, 08:59 PM
You seem to fit into your mold quite well.:ninja:

There goes that wit again :)

Buzzard
04-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Just like President Obama. :ninja:

At least I was able to have hopes again. Under Bush, all I could see was our downward spiral. Obama has a tough job trying to undo the damage from the past administration. I hope he succeeds.

Buzzard
04-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Depending of course on how liberal you actually are :wink:

I'm actually more of a moderate. I truly believe the constitution should govern this country.

I don't feel that religious law should be implemented no matter what the religion.

As a Christian the last thing I want is anyone to be forced to follow a Christian life style. It defeats the purpose of becoming saved.

I'm against gay marriage for many reasons not just religious and I feel our government is very corrupt is every single aspect.


I agree with you on some points. I bet you didn't see that happening any time soon.:blink:

Crisco
04-22-2009, 09:05 PM
I agree with you on some points. I bet you didn't see that happening any time soon.:blink:

I did actually.

My views are pretty common.

I think everyone deserves freedom to choose their own lot in life. It just doesn't mean we can throw away our responsibilities to the future generations.

Even our small decisions now ripple into huge waves of the future.

Tyburn
04-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Depending of course on how liberal you actually are :wink:

I'm actually more of a moderate. I truly believe the constitution should govern this country.

I don't feel that religious law should be implemented no matter what the religion.

As a Christian the last thing I want is anyone to be forced to follow a Christian life style. It defeats the purpose of becoming saved.

I'm against gay marriage for many reasons not just religious and I feel our government is very corrupt is every single aspect.
I'm so gutted that I cant meet you on my U.S Tour anymore :cry:

rockdawg21
04-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Here I am to shatter your hopes.:wink:

You don't like being challenged, do you?
Welcome back :happy0159:

The only challenges presented by a liberal is how to get them out of office and how to prevent the media propoganda.

Crisco
04-22-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm so gutted that I cant meet you on my U.S Tour anymore :cry:

Well how close to the east coast are you getting Dave?