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Chris F
04-10-2009, 03:21 AM
Warren's 'backsliding' on marriage damages church
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 4/9/2009 7:00:00 AM

A Washington, DC, pastor and outspoken opponent of same-sex "marriage" says California mega-church pastor Rick Warren has done "tremendous damage" by apologizing for his support last fall of California's marriage protection amendment.


Rick Warren said Monday on CNN's Larry King Live that he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay marriage activist," and made a point to inform the program's host that he apologized to his homosexual friends for comments he made in October to his church in support of Proposition 8 in California.

Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr., with the High Impact Leadership Coalition says he was very disappointed with Warren's statements on CNN.

"This man who's been called the next Billy Graham, who I really respect with all my heart and love what he's doing in Africa, is falling into a trap that is emblematic of the problem that the entire church is facing in this generation," Jackson states. "And that is that we love the applause of men more than we love the work of God and the gospel. Jesus...told us that we are to honor God first, and that we are not to fear men but we're to fear God."

Jackson argues that Warren was "aiding and abetting a deception around what kind of stance the Bible calls Christians to take" by telling Larry King that opposing the recent Iowa Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage was "not his agenda."

"He is the author of The Purpose Driven Life book," Jackson notes, "and therefore people are going to think, 'Well, this is not on my mission -- it's not on my purpose. I don't have to stand for truth.'

"Therefore, his defection -- in terms of his stance on this issue -- [and] his backsliding on this issue, becomes of tremendous damage to the strength of the church in this position."

Warren told King on Monday that he "never once even gave an endorsement" during the Prop. 8 campaign. However, in late October -- just weeks before the November 4 election -- the pastor told his congregation: "Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8." (Read a complete transcript of those comments)


Pastor Warren has not yet responded to a request from OneNewsNow for an interview.

Chris F
04-10-2009, 03:44 AM
Rick Warren disavows support for Prop. 8
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 4/8/2009 7:00:00 AM

California mega-church pastor and author of The Purpose Driven Life Rick Warren says he apologized to his homosexual friends for making comments in support of California's Proposition 8, and now claims he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the marriage amendment.

Monday night on CNN's Larry King Live, Pastor Rick Warren apologized for his support of Prop. 8, California's voter-approved marriage protection amendment, saying he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist."

"During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going," Warren told the CNN audience on Monday. "The week before the -- the vote, somebody in my church said, 'Pastor Rick, what -- what do you think about this?' And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is -- really should be defined, that that definition should be -- say between a man and a woman."

However, just two weeks before the November 4 Prop. 8 vote, Pastor Warren issued a clear endorsement of the marriage amendment while speaking to church members. "We support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8," he said.

The following is a complete transcript of Warren's comments just weeks before the Prop. 8 election:

"The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.

"Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear.

"This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat-out asked both of them: what is your definition of marriage? And they both said the same thing -- it is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.

"Now here's an interesting thing. There are about two percent of Americans [who] are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.

"This is not even just a Christian issue -- it's a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love, and procreation.

"So I urge you to support Proposition 8, and pass that word on. I'm going to be sending out a note to pastors on what I believe about this. But everybody knows what I believe about it. They heard me at the Civil Forum when I asked both Obama and McCain on their views."

During his CNN interview on Monday, Warren expressed regret for backing Prop. 8. "There were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends -- the leaders that I knew -- and actually apologized to them. That never got out," he admitted.

Additionally, Pastor Warren said he did not want to comment on or criticize the Iowa Supreme Court's decision last week to legalize same-sex "marriage" because it was "not his agenda."



Story continues below ...



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Bryan Fischer with the Idaho Values Alliance says Warren is abdicating his biblical role as a pastor. "For Pastor Warren to say that shoring up marriage is not something that's on his agenda is just something that's hard to believe for somebody who believes the Bible is our rule for faith and practice," Fischer notes.

Dr. Jim Garlow, the senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in the San Diego suburb of La Mesa, helped spearhead the Prop. 8 effort in California. Garlow admits he is confused and troubled by Pastor Warren's decision to apologize for supporting Prop. 8.

"Historically when institutions and individuals back away from convictional biblical truth, it is driven primarily by one single factor -- and that is the respectability of other people. In other words, much more caring about what other people think about them than what God thinks about them," he concludes.

Pastor Warren did not respond to a request from OneNewsNow for an interview.

Vizion
04-10-2009, 03:49 AM
Jackson states. "And that is that we love the applause of men more than we love the work of God and the gospel. Jesus...told us that we are to honor God first, and that we are not to fear men but we're to fear God."

Pastor Warren has not yet responded to a request from OneNewsNow for an interview.
Sad, but Rick Warren has always been a fence sitter in my book, always peddling a fast food version of Christianity that never paralled the work of Billy Graham.

So sad, but the Bible warns of false teachers like Rick Warren in the last days.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

:sad:

Chris F
04-11-2009, 02:01 AM
Sad, but Rick Warren has always been a fence sitter in my book, always peddling a fast food version of Christianity that never paralled the work of Billy Graham.

So sad, but the Bible warns of false teachers like Rick Warren in the last days.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

:sad:

What is even more sad is how many people follow him. :cry:

NateR
04-11-2009, 02:16 AM
We just did Warren's 40 Days of Community in my church and it was one of the least fulfilling Bible studies I think I've ever been a part of. I really just went for the free food. :laugh:

I never got into the 40 Days of Purpose thing either. I just saw him taking too many liberties with his interpretations of the Bible. Plus, the fact that he's trying to preach Christian doctrine from Bible translations such as The Message, is really just toeing the line of heresy.

Chris F
04-11-2009, 02:31 AM
We just did Warren's 40 Days of Community in my church and it was one of the least fulfilling Bible studies I think I've ever been a part of. I really just went for the free food. :laugh:

I never got into the 40 Days of Purpose thing either. I just saw him taking too many liberties with his interpretations of the Bible. Plus, the fact that he's trying to preach Christian doctrine from Bible translations such as The Message, is really just toeing the line of heresy.

"toeing the line"? :laugh: He is in real deep. He is the king of the apostate church.

NateR
04-11-2009, 05:22 AM
"toeing the line"? :laugh: He is in real deep. He is the king of the apostate church.

It's possible. I read a book a while back about the New Age teachings that were embedded into his Purpose Driven Life book. Every time I listen to him preach, his messages always seems so empty. Kind of like going to a restaurant craving steak and potatoes, but only being fed unsweetened whipped cream.

Joel Osteen is another evangelist who seems to be bordering on heretical (I've only listened to one of his sermons, so I can't pass judgement on him). But at least Osteen stands his ground when proclaiming homosexuality a sin.

cubsfan47
04-11-2009, 01:28 PM
"Fast food approach to Christianity"....I like that as a way of describing a lot of religious trends.

Locally two large Assembly Of God congregations decided to rename themselves and remake themselves into, what is in my opinion, more "sinner friendly" churches. It is a disturbing trend. Is this an example of what Timothy wrote about as "people having their ears tickled"? (sorry but I can't remember the exact citation.)

Preach
04-11-2009, 03:37 PM
What is really scarey is that Church's today are catering more to the congregation then they are to God. They are trying to become politically correct. The problem is the Church shouldn't be following the standard but rather setting the standard. There is no gray area in Christianity. It's all black and white. Jesus often said you either in the light or in the darkness. You can't be both you have to choose your side.
Many today have the form of godliness the Bible spoke of but are truly denying the power thereof. We as Christians need to draw a line in the sand and stand for what's right. We must come out from among them and be seperate.
The thing that really bother's me about the Rick Warren's of today is that they truly hurt the apperance of the church. We have a problem in the fact that people put soo much of their faith in the messanger not in the message. It's as if when they fall they grab hold of everyone around them and pull them down too. Confidence in man will always leave you empty.

Chris F
04-12-2009, 12:11 AM
"Fast food approach to Christianity"....I like that as a way of describing a lot of religious trends.

Locally two large Assembly Of God congregations decided to rename themselves and remake themselves into, what is in my opinion, more "sinner friendly" churches. It is a disturbing trend. Is this an example of what Timothy wrote about as "people having their ears tickled"? (sorry but I can't remember the exact citation.)

That is to true. I was a minster fo rthe AOG and they have told their people to try to change names to make them more appealing. This is a trend in ALL denominations and frankly really stupid. What should draw them is the truth of the gospel not a give away or a softer name.

CAVEMAN
04-13-2009, 04:14 PM
Sad, but Rick Warren has always been a fence sitter in my book, always peddling a fast food version of Christianity that never paralled the work of Billy Graham.

So sad, but the Bible warns of false teachers like Rick Warren in the last days.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

:sad:

Your right, he is lukewarm at best and as Pastor he should stand for biblical truth. But I guess I really should not be surprised with this kind of thing from Pastors of Mega Churches. Seems to be the satus quo!

Maglorius
04-13-2009, 05:08 PM
Your right, he is lukewarm at best and as Pastor he should stand for biblical truth. But I guess I really should not be surprised with this kind of thing from Pastors of Mega Churches. Seems to be the satus quo!

That's sad that Rick Warren would go back on what he should support, but not all mega church pastors are falling away. Guys like Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, John Piper are preaching the truth about God without worrying of offending anyone. These guys would be bucking the trend of other mega church pastors.

Chris F
04-13-2009, 05:50 PM
That's sad that Rick Warren would go back on what he should support, but not all mega church pastors are falling away. Guys like Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, John Piper are preaching the truth about God without worrying of offending anyone. These guys would be bucking the trend of other mega church pastors.

All three of those guy preach the Word of Faith greed gospel which is flat out heresy. SO they would not know the truth of Gods word if it bit them in the hinny.

Maglorius
04-13-2009, 06:18 PM
All three of those guy preach the Word of Faith greed gospel which is flat out heresy. SO they would not know the truth of Gods word if it bit them in the hinny.


I don't know where you got that idea but, none of these guys teach the word of faith. Have you even listened to any of their teachings. They have nothing in common with guys like Joel Osteen, TD Jakes or the likes on these guys. I urge you to actually listen to these guys teaching and you will be surprised.

Chris F
04-13-2009, 06:22 PM
I don't know where you got that idea but, none of these guys teach the word of faith. Have you even listened to any of their teachings. They have nothing in common with guys like Joel Osteen, TD Jakes or the likes on these guys. I urge you to actually listen to these guys teaching and you will be surprised.

I apologize I misread the names you listed. John Piper is a very good minister. However the other guys you listed are a little to seeker sensititve for me. They are a lot better then Osteen and Warren but they still a little to reserved for my taste.

Maglorius
04-13-2009, 06:46 PM
I apologize I misread the names you listed. John Piper is a very good minister. However the other guys you listed are a little to seeker sensititve for me. They are a lot better then Osteen and Warren but they still a little to reserved for my taste.


No problem. I am a little surprised you would think Driscoll or Chandler are seeker sensitive. I don't know if you have actually listened to these guys but they are not at all seeker sensitive.

KevinD
04-14-2009, 03:20 PM
What is really scarey is that Church's today are catering more to the congregation then they are to God. They are trying to become politically correct. The problem is the Church shouldn't be following the standard but rather setting the standard. There is no gray area in Christianity. It's all black and white. Jesus often said you either in the light or in the darkness. You can't be both you have to choose your side.
Many today have the form of godliness the Bible spoke of but are truly denying the power thereof. We as Christians need to draw a line in the sand and stand for what's right. We must come out from among them and be seperate.
The thing that really bother's me about the Rick Warren's of today is that they truly hurt the apperance of the church. We have a problem in the fact that people put soo much of their faith in the messanger not in the message. It's as if when they fall they grab hold of everyone around them and pull them down too. Confidence in man will always leave you empty.


That is really well said and worth repeating.

CAVEMAN
04-14-2009, 04:39 PM
My problem with most of the mega church pastors is what they are winning their people to! Are they winning them to Jesus or are they winning them to worldly entertainment and "feel good"/empty messages?

Matthew Chapter 7: 13,14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Miss Foxy
04-14-2009, 05:25 PM
I personally watch Joel Osteen. I stay glued to the tv and seem to understand him. I have a bad attention span guys and I get so distracted with anything, but I can honestly say I pay attention to him...:mellow: