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Chris F
04-08-2009, 01:21 AM
Obama appoints open homosexual to faith-based office

Jim Brown and Jody Brown - OneNewsNow - 4/7/2009 8:00:00 AM

The head of a conservative activist group says President Obama's appointment of a leading homosexual activist to his faith-based council is an ominous sign that he may enforce a "pro-homosexuality orthodoxy" on religious groups receiving federal funds, which is itself a form of bigotry.

Barack Obama has appointed outspoken homosexual activist Harry Knox to the White House Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. Knox, who is the director of the Human Rights Campaign's (HRC) Religion and Faith program, will serve a one-year term on the 25-member Council.

Two years ago during an appearance on MSNBC, Knox argued that scientific evidence supports the notion that certain people are born homosexuals. "What's clear from our experience and from science is that being gay or lesbian is an immutable, unchangeable gift from God -- one for which I'm very grateful," he said. According to the HRC website, Knox is a former licensed pastor of a United Methodist Church in Georgia, and was denied ordination because of his sexual orientation.

Last month, Knox was critical of Pope Benedict's statement that condom usage increases HIV infections. That stance, said Knox, "is hurting people in the name of Jesus." He has also referred to "lesbian and gay" ministerial candidates as "gifted ministers."

HRC cites Knox as "instrumental in creating a national network for 22 progressive state clergy coalitions" across the U.S. But Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, says the HRC staff member is at the forefront of a movement that seeks to rewrite the Bible to support homosexuality.

"Harry Knox is part of an organization which is fundamentally bigoted against Christians and promotes the exclusion of Christians from various fora," he contends. "For example, Human Rights Campaign used its influence to kick me off a diversity panel that I was supposed to be part of on dealing with faith and controversial issues, including homosexuality."

While the HRC staffer claims he "will support the president in living up to his promise that government has no place in funding bigotry against any group of people," LaBarbera says Knox will be "using his influence to keep Christians out of government-funded programs."

Obama established his faith-based office by executive order on February 5, 2009. That office is headed up by Joshua Dubois (see related story).

Dungy says no

Meanwhile, The Associated Press is reporting that former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy has declined an invitation to serve on an advisory council to the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.

Dungy, an evangelical Christian, supported efforts in Indiana to protect traditional marriage in 2007, prompting criticism from liberal groups last week when the invitation was made public. National Public Radio quotes author Sarah Posner, who says Obama's needs to "balance out" the make-up of the council instead of appointing "another evangelical who is opposed to gay marriage" -- a reference to Dungy. To accomplish that, she recommends the president appoint individuals with a different faith perspective that supports same-sex marriage and abortion. Posner defines such individuals as "progressive."


A White House spokesman says Dungy cited scheduling conflicts in declining to serve on the council.

Moose
04-08-2009, 01:25 AM
Politics Thread!

Chris F
04-08-2009, 01:40 AM
Since it was half politics half religious I questioned weather to put it in politics. :)

NateR
04-08-2009, 03:20 AM
I think it's becoming very clear that Obama is waging a war against Christianity in America.

Vizion
04-08-2009, 03:51 AM
I think it's becoming very clear that Obama is waging a war against Christianity in America.
And do you wonder why more people than ever before sensed something deeply sinister about this man from the get-go? :ninja:

BTW, watch that video I posted about back conservatives for more insight into Obama.

Hughes_GOAT
04-08-2009, 04:24 AM
I think it's becoming very clear that Obama is waging a war against Christianity in America.

well that was obvious from jump :laugh:

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 04:44 AM
"...a gift from God" :scared0015:

NOT!

I think GOD was very CLEAR about homosexuality.

NateR
04-08-2009, 04:58 AM
argued that scientific evidence supports the notion that certain people are born homosexuals. "What's clear from our experience and from science is that being gay or lesbian is an immutable, unchangeable gift from God

This is just a sickening distortion of the truth. There is absolutely ZERO reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are born that way. However, in typical liberal fashion, when you have no facts to support your claim, then lie through your teeth and hope that the audience is stupid enough to believe you.

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 06:11 AM
This is just a sickening distortion of the truth. There is absolutely ZERO reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are born that way. However, in typical liberal fashion, when you have no facts to support your claim, then lie through your teeth and hope that the audience is stupid enough to believe you.

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

Actually, if you read and do some research, you will find that there is some reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that they are born that way. It may take some reading to find the evidence, but it is out there for those who are willing to take the time.

I would post some more links as I have found numerous, but haven't had the time in the past few minutes to read through the plethora of them that I have found, and don't wish to provide information that I haven't verified or actually read through. I've been burned before because of this, and don't wish to provide false information if possible.

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 06:13 AM
And do you wonder why more people than ever before sensed something deeply sinister about this man from the get-go? :ninja:

BTW, watch that video I posted about back conservatives for more insight into Obama.


I watched the video as much as I could before it made me ill. Yeah, he's a real great person to listen to......NOT! It was interesting though, so I'll give you credit for that, though I would like the time back if at all possible.

NateR
04-08-2009, 07:20 AM
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

Actually, if you read and do some research, you will find that there is some reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that they are born that way. It may take some reading to find the evidence, but it is out there for those who are willing to take the time.

I would post some more links as I have found numerous, but haven't had the time in the past few minutes to read through the plethora of them that I have found, and don't wish to provide information that I haven't verified or actually read through. I've been burned before because of this, and don't wish to provide false information if possible.

That's just a lot of theories and guesswork. No real evidence.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 07:28 AM
This is just a sickening distortion of the truth. There is absolutely ZERO reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are born that way. However, in typical liberal fashion, when you have no facts to support your claim, then lie through your teeth and hope that the audience is stupid enough to believe you.
we actually watched a video in sociology class about the case of a botched circumcision at a young age which destroyed the young males genitalia, so they decided to attempt to transform him into a female based on saying the person you are is based on how you are raised...this led to many scientists doing experiments on the human brain, and once guy(Dr. Diamond) found that in the brains of males, the hypothalamus is slightly larger...They also spliced human brains of homosexuals and found that it was smaller than those of straight males...this wasn't done on just one or two brains either, it was compiled through hundreds of experiments, and the same results came on other animals as well....I still think they have control over being gay or not, but I am just trying to say there is some evidence out there, I'm not saying this evidence is set it stone, but I would say it is creditable to an extent, they did show the images of the spliced section of the hypothalamus, and the difference in size is pretty noticeable

timmyja
04-08-2009, 11:46 AM
:wacko: I highly doubt there will ever be any scientific evidence in our lifetimes that will support such a claim, but I know damn well nobody has ever been born saying things like "Look at thoth panth!" or "Wowwww you guyth.. thoth thingth are enormouth!"

Moose
04-08-2009, 01:25 PM
This is just a sickening distortion of the truth. There is absolutely ZERO reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are born that way. However, in typical liberal fashion, when you have no facts to support your claim, then lie through your teeth and hope that the audience is stupid enough to believe you.

Or, in the typical conservative fashion, you mistrust what you don't know and call gays who are telling us that they were born gay liars. That's great Nate, bringing us together a little more everyday. :rolleyes:

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 02:06 PM
Homosexuals can't be religious?

County Mike
04-08-2009, 03:54 PM
Personally, I think most of them are born that way. I've known young kids who showed homosexual traits. Sure enough, they grew up to realize they were gay. To me, showing signs at such a young age is at least SOME evidence that they were born that way.

But as was said before: Being gay doesn't mean they have to act on their feelings. I think it would suck to be in that position though (gay and not wanting to sin by doing what feels natural)

Crisco
04-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Yea Ive known a lot of dudes that seem to have been gay from the start.

I think your stuck with the attraction no matter what you do.

You don't need to act on it your feelings though... I feel bad though being born that way really sucks if you try to live the Christian way... I guess you have to make a personal choice and decide which you want more.

NateR
04-08-2009, 04:39 PM
we actually watched a video in sociology class about the case of a botched circumcision at a young age which destroyed the young males genitalia, so they decided to attempt to transform him into a female based on saying the person you are is based on how you are raised...this led to many scientists doing experiments on the human brain, and once guy(Dr. Diamond) found that in the brains of males, the hypothalamus is slightly larger...They also spliced human brains of homosexuals and found that it was smaller than those of straight males...this wasn't done on just one or two brains either, it was compiled through hundreds of experiments, and the same results came on other animals as well....I still think they have control over being gay or not, but I am just trying to say there is some evidence out there, I'm not saying this evidence is set it stone, but I would say it is creditable to an extent, they did show the images of the spliced section of the hypothalamus, and the difference in size is pretty noticeable

Again, can they prove that that difference is genetic or a product of the person's environment?

NateR
04-08-2009, 04:42 PM
Or, in the typical conservative fashion, you mistrust what you don't know and call gays who are telling us that they were born gay liars. That's great Nate, bringing us together a little more everyday. :rolleyes:

Actually, I understand true science well enough recognize when they have no real evidence and are just using the pseudo-scientific tactic known as an "argument of authority." In other words, they can't prove their claim, but they hope that their credentials and/or status within the scientific community will get people to believe them.

I'm not calling people who claim to be born gay liars, I'm just saying that there is no way that even they can know that. Most people's memories don't go back that far.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:44 PM
Again, can they prove that that difference is genetic or a product of the person's environment?
The only theory they really have to prove it is gentic, because in the case of the early baby sexchange due to a botched circumcision..the now girl was less than a year old and raised as a female, they treated her as one and gave her all the things a normal girl would have, even throughout like the late elementary school age, she was unhappy and kept trying to tell her mother that she didnt feel like a normal girl, they started giving her estrogen pills right around the time of puberty, but nothing changed...This lasted well into her teenage years, the whole time very unhappy and starting to rebel against her female image...Finally around the time she was 15, her mother finally told her the truth because of how depressed she was, when she found out, she later turned herself back into a male through another sex change, but due to the screwed up childhood, he later killed himself

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Personally, I think most of them are born that way. I've known young kids who showed homosexual traits. Sure enough, they grew up to realize they were gay. To me, showing signs at such a young age is at least SOME evidence that they were born that way.

But as was said before: Being gay doesn't mean they have to act on their feelings. I think it would suck to be in that position though (gay and not wanting to sin by doing what feels natural)
yeah, knew a dude who every halloween would dress up like a chick .. without fail ... didn't even have sisters, had a couple of brothers ... brothers didn't end up gay, but this guy was :fiery:

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Actually, I understand true science well enough recognize when they have no real evidence and are just using the pseudo-scientific tactic known as an "argument of authority." In other words, they can't prove their claim, but they hope that their credentials and/or status within the scientific community will get people to believe them..
this is true, but in the case of this story I just told you, the scientist who recommended the sex change on the basis that you are a product of how you are raised, that man was a highly respected figure in the science community....do to his rank, no one questioned his authority, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon despite the fact that the sex change was unsuccessful(mainly because he only published the good, which was only about 5% of the child's actual life)...The doctor who argued otherwise and studied the hypothalamus, was not well known in the community, and it took him years and years of displaying his findings for really anyone to take notice.....I agree with you that some scientists use their authority to say something without factual evidence, but just remember that goes for both sides of the spectrum

Miss Foxy
04-08-2009, 04:50 PM
this is true, but in the case of this story I just told you, the scientist who recommended the sex change on the basis that you are a product of how you are raised, that man was a highly respected figure in the science community....do to his rank, no one questioned his authority, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon despite the fact that the sex change was unsuccessful(mainly because he only published the good, which was only about 5% of the child's actual life)...The doctor who argued otherwise and studied the hypothalamus, was not well known in the community, and it took him years and years of displaying his findings for really anyone to take notice.....I agree with you that some scientists use their authority to say something without factual evidence, but just remember that goes for both sides of the spectrum
Ok am I totally lame today or what? Ok so this person was originally born a male, but was forced to be raised as a female??

Crisco
04-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Ok am I totally lame today or what? Ok so this person was originally born a male, but was forced to be raised as a female??

Yes. They screwed up the snippin the tip and then they raised him like a girl.

NateR
04-08-2009, 04:54 PM
yeah, knew a dude who every halloween would dress up like a chick .. without fail ... didn't even have sisters, had a couple of brothers ... brothers didn't end up gay, but this guy was :fiery:

I've known guys who dress up like girls for Halloween but didn't end up gay. That's a pretty weak argument for claiming that he was "born gay."

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:55 PM
Ok am I totally lame today or what? Ok so this person was originally born a male, but was forced to be raised as a female??He and his twin brother were born as males, they both had circumcisions within like the first 6 months of their life, but this ones circumcision was botched and basically destroyed his penis, in order to try to support their sociological belief, the doctor decided to just give him female parts and raise him as a female, as I have said already, it obviously had its major issues

Miss Foxy
04-08-2009, 04:56 PM
Yes. They screwed up the snippin the tip and then they raised him like a girl.
So duh he was a boy and his body and mind knew it.I don't get how raising him as a product of his environment would matter? Very poor decision on the medical staff and family to force a male into a female.. Awful and what a tragedy....:sad:

NateR
04-08-2009, 04:56 PM
.I agree with you that some scientists use their authority to say something without factual evidence, but just remember that goes for both sides of the spectrum

Of course it does, which is why we need to be educated and very selective about who's opinions we regard as "truth." Some people are just so intent on proving that homosexuals are born gay, that they'll post links to an internet article written by someone they've never even met and try to use that as empirical scientific evidence.

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm torn on the whole "born" vs. "choice".

How do we explain a person who is born a boy or girl but exhibits the "opposite" sex from the young age of a child before they've even gone through puberty or understand what "gay" is? How do we explain when a child is born one sex but literally has the "physical" attributes of the opposite sex? I know there are medical terms for this (being born with opposite organs), but I can't think of them right now.

On the other hand, I think it's simply "easier" for those in society who are awkward around the opposite sex to choose to be with the same sex in every way.

If there is something to some gays being born that way, especially if they are trying to live a Godly life in spite of their feelings, my heart breaks for them. For the other group, I see it as a total "choice" they've made against what God tells us is right.

But, either way, I agree with Crisco, you have to choose what means more to you, this temporary earthly life or your soul.

rockdawg21
04-08-2009, 05:03 PM
He appointed a homosexual? That's gay.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 05:04 PM
He appointed a homosexual? That's gay.

:laugh:

NateR
04-08-2009, 05:19 PM
I'm torn on the whole "born" vs. "choice".


I've heard good philosophical arguments on both sides of that issue, but very little hard scientific evidence to prove one side or the other.

My point is that it doesn't matter. Some people are born with the "alcoholism gene" does that mean it's okay for them to waste their lives away in a bar and drive under the influence? Some people are born with schizophrenia, does that means that they should be proud of their "alternative lifestyle" and embrace their delusions? Probably not, since that's not fair to the people who are forced to take care of them.

Other people are even born predisposed to have cancer, does that mean they should embrace their cancer and be proud of it? And if you accept them, then you MUST accept their cancer as part of them? I would hope not.

People are born with all kinds of genetic defects and neurological disorders, it makes sense that homosexuality would just be one of those.

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 05:29 PM
The only theory they really have to prove it is gentic, because in the case of the early baby sexchange due to a botched circumcision..the now girl was less than a year old and raised as a female, they treated her as one and gave her all the things a normal girl would have, even throughout like the late elementary school age, she was unhappy and kept trying to tell her mother that she didnt feel like a normal girl, they started giving her estrogen pills right around the time of puberty, but nothing changed...This lasted well into her teenage years, the whole time very unhappy and starting to rebel against her female image...Finally around the time she was 15, her mother finally told her the truth because of how depressed she was, when she found out, she later turned herself back into a male through another sex change, but due to the screwed up childhood, he later killed himself

I think I saw this story on one of the news shows like 20/20. In this particular case, that doctor, to me, who told the parents that it would be best to just change the boy and give him female genetalia and raise him as a girl was a total qwack. I think he saw his chance to do some "research" and used this poor child as a guinea pig with ultimately tragic results for the child.

The only way I see environment playing a part in a child growing up to be gay is what we see happening now. Our children being "taught" in school and in society by those with the "gay" agenda who want everyone to believe that this IS normal just an alternative lifestyle. You see it with the books they are bringing in to schools, the shows/movies showing same gender "partners" in bed, songs like "I Kissed a Girl..." and now the states are saying with "laws" basically "there's nothing wrong with this" again usurping God's law with man's. :sad:

Even if some people are "born" with something inside them that predisposes them to be gay, it still is not normal.

For me, if God had made it clear that there would be those born in such a way and it was not a sin for those "born" this way to live that life, I'd say so be it because God says it is so. But, God clearly states in the Bible that this is sinful. God made man, then he made woman to be with man.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 05:39 PM
I think I saw this story on one of the news shows like 20/20. In this particular case, that doctor, to me, who told the parents that it would be best to just change the boy and give him female genetalia and raise him as a girl was a total qwack. I think he saw his chance to do some "research" and used this poor child as a guinea pig with ultimately tragic results for the child..
absolutely, but the thing is, he was selective in what he published, he cheated the science community into thinking it was successful because all he printed was the positives which were few and far between, he refused to tell anybody what all the negatives were, during the period of late childhood when the child was having extreme difficulties with her image, he didn't publish anything at all, this lack of details just led the science community to believe everything was going good until the man's story finally came out many years later

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 05:42 PM
Of course it does, which is why we need to be educated and very selective about who's opinions we regard as "truth." Some people are just so intent on proving that homosexuals are born gay, that they'll post links to an internet article written by someone they've never even met and try to use that as empirical scientific evidence.I agree completely, but what I'm saying is this doctor provided extensive studies on the size of the hypothalamus. His research was focused around whether someone has it ingrained in them that they are male or female, as a side study he also looked into homosexuals and people of straight sexual orientation, and he noticed significant differences in the hypothalamus.....I'm not trying to argue that homosexuality is ok, because its not imo, and I'm not trying to say for a fact that it is born into someone, all I am doing is presenting some research to help add to the debate

NateR
04-08-2009, 05:47 PM
I've known young kids who showed homosexual traits.

But what do you define as "homosexual traits?" That seems to be a very subjective term.

NateR
04-08-2009, 05:49 PM
I agree completely, but what I'm saying is this doctor provided extensive studies on the size of the hypothalamus. His research was focused around whether someone has it ingrained in them that they are male or female, as a side study he also looked into homosexuals and people of straight sexual orientation, and he noticed significant differences in the hypothalamus.....I'm not trying to argue that homosexuality is ok, because its not imo, and I'm not trying to say for a fact that it is born into someone, all I am doing is presenting some research to help add to the debate

With our current understanding of the human body, we don't really know of the size of the hypothalamus is a genetically inherited trait or a product of upbringing.

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 05:52 PM
I've heard good philosophical arguments on both sides of that issue, but very little hard scientific evidence to prove one side or the other.

My point is that it doesn't matter. Some people are born with the "alcoholism gene" does that mean it's okay for them to waste their lives away in a bar and drive under the influence? Some people are born with schizophrenia, does that means that they should be proud of their "alternative lifestyle" and embrace their delusions? Probably not, since that's not fair to the people who are forced to take care of them.

Other people are even born predisposed to have cancer, does that mean they should embrace their cancer and be proud of it? And if you accept them, then you MUST accept their cancer as part of them? I would hope not.

People are born with all kinds of genetic defects and neurological disorders, it makes sense that homosexuality would just be one of those.

I agree with you Nate. People born with all of these terrible things and/or predisposed to certain diseases have a hard road to follow. And, of course, we shouldn't embrace their choice to live sinfully against God's word.

I (and I speak solely for myself no one else) don't know why some people are born with such burdens and others are not. God tells us there are things we are not going to understand, and by that, I take it to mean He doesn't want us to understand or else it would be so.

My heart goes out to anyone born with some awful condition/disease, or due to some misfortune in life, ends up struggling with a physical or mental handicap. I don't know if there IS such a thing as being born gay. It doesn't really matter 'cause in the end you have to choose which path you're going to walk.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 05:52 PM
With our current understanding of the human body, we don't really know of the size of the hypothalamus is a genetically inherited trait or a product of upbringing.thats very true, and it will be almost impossible to tell unless new technology comes about, in order to find these differences it took years of splicing and searching on the human brain...chances are no one is willing to or should sacrifice their child for the sake of science, that would be just disgusting...all I'm saying with this is, its at least something to consider when discussing this topic

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 06:00 PM
That's just a lot of theories and guesswork. No real evidence.

No, you just are discounting the evidence presented. If you had actually read through the link, you would have seen the evidence and how some of the conclusions were made.

Do you hold your religion to the same standard? Just a lot of theories and guesswork in it, no hard evidence yet you accept it as fact.

Actually, I understand true science well enough recognize when they have no real evidence and are just using the pseudo-scientific tactic known as an "argument of authority." In other words, they can't prove their claim, but they hope that their credentials and/or status within the scientific community will get people to believe them.

I'm not calling people who claim to be born gay liars, I'm just saying that there is no way that even they can know that. Most people's memories don't go back that far.

I don't think you do understand true science well enough. If you held your religious beliefs to the same standard as you hold this, you would probably come to the same conclusions of the non-believers. Yet, you don't hold your religious to the same standards. I find that to be a bit hypocritical.

NateR
04-08-2009, 06:01 PM
Yet, you don't hold your religious to the same standards. I find that to be a bit hypocritical.

That's an assumption made on your part and it is NOT a correct one.

If you want to put your faith in some random person on the internet, just because they claim to be a scientist, then that's your business. However, that's not what I believe to be the stuff of true intelligence.

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 06:05 PM
I've known guys who dress up like girls for Halloween but didn't end up gay. That's a pretty weak argument for claiming that he was "born gay."
i didn't say he turned gay because he dressed like a girl, i am saying he was gay and felt the need to dress up like a girl, over and over and over ... and i am not going to say it is "scientific proof" that people are born gay ...

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 06:09 PM
But what do you define as "homosexual traits?" That seems to be a very subjective term.
dropping the soap in the showers after gym is a pretty gay trait ... playing with dolls (GI Joe isn't a doll, but i never had one), asking for an easy bake oven, when it was time to wrestle, you always want to be adrian adonis ... those are some gay traits .......

County Mike
04-08-2009, 06:10 PM
But what do you define as "homosexual traits?" That seems to be a very subjective term.

Girlish voice
girlish mannerisms
girlish physical features (face, posture, etc.)

At such a young age, raised by hetero parents, it seems hard to argue that he just decided to be that way.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 06:11 PM
dropping the soap in the showers after gym is a pretty gay trait ... playing with dolls (GI Joe isn't a doll, but i never had one), asking for an easy bake oven, when it was time to wrestle, you always want to be adrian adonis ... those are some gay traits .......

Don't forget liking the penis

County Mike
04-08-2009, 06:11 PM
dropping the soap in the showers after gym is a pretty gay trait ... playing with dolls (GI Joe isn't a doll, but i never had one), asking for an easy bake oven, when it was time to wrestle, you always want to be adrian adonis ... those are some gay traits .......

LOL at Adrian Adonis

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 06:11 PM
Of course it does, which is why we need to be educated and very selective about who's opinions we regard as "truth." Some people are just so intent on proving that homosexuals are born gay, that they'll post links to an internet article written by someone they've never even met and try to use that as empirical scientific evidence.

I posted the links to give you the evidence, yet you disregard it because it goes against what you believe. I doubt that you even read anything beyond the first paragraph or two.

How did you decide that the writings of the folks of 2k+ years ago who wrote the bible were credible? They had very limited knowledge of the world and science, yet you still believe them that everything that they wrote in the book is true. You never met them did you? Again, you are being either hypocritical or inconsistent with how you determine what is and isn't truth and fact.

County Mike
04-08-2009, 06:12 PM
Don't forget liking the penis

I LOLd.

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 06:14 PM
Other people are even born predisposed to have cancer, does that mean they should embrace their cancer and be proud of it? And if you accept them, then you MUST accept their cancer as part of them? I would hope not.


Are you saying that if a loved one had cancer, you wouldn't accept them? If you don't accept that cancer is a part of them, you shun them like a leper? Wow, you haven't learned much from your good book.

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 06:18 PM
Are you saying that if a loved one had cancer, you wouldn't accept them? If you don't accept that cancer is a part of them, you shun them like a leper? Wow, you haven't learned much from your good book.
are you serious? i think he means, you should embrace the fact that you have it and not get help for it ... saying "oh well, i was born with it, nothing i can do" .. there is having a good argument and then just being ridiculous ....

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 06:21 PM
Are you saying that if a loved one had cancer, you wouldn't accept them? If you don't accept that cancer is a part of them, you shun them like a leper? Wow, you haven't learned much from your good book.I think he is saying, if you got cancer would you try to fight it or just sit back and let it destroy you

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 06:25 PM
But what do you define as "homosexual traits?" That seems to be a very subjective term.


I have two female cousins who are gay. Both of them were tomboys as kids. Both of their families strong (and I mean strong) Catholics, brought up in church, etc... These two were born and brought up in the 50's, 60's and 70's when all of this was still big-time (at least publicly) in the "closet".

I'm sure it was very difficult for their families (mom and dad) to accept this, and I'm not saying they agree with their kids' choices or lifestyles, but I do know they love them. They haven't disowned them.

My lil' sis had a friend she met in school, his name was Todd. He died of HIV/AIDS. Todd would come every once in a while to one of our family functions. One of his last visits, he was obviously sick, I'll never forget how his little hand shook due to the disease that had taken over his body and would soon take his life. :sad:

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend his service, but my twin went to support my lil' sis. She said the pastor read a letter to the congregation that Todd had written. In it he told how he had regret for the choices he had made, and that he had made his peace with God asking for forgiveness.

I don't agree with the choices my cousins have made or that young Todd made that ultimately took his life.

I don't understand what made them choose this lifestyle.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 06:25 PM
Are you saying that if a loved one had cancer, you wouldn't accept them? If you don't accept that cancer is a part of them, you shun them like a leper? Wow, you haven't learned much from your good book.


Your taking jabs that shouldn't be taken.

What he was saying was you don't "love cancer" you don't act like it is a "gift"from God that you have it.

You don't have a choice in cancer you usually die but whether or knock you poke a dude is completely up to you.

We all get it buzzard your the cool guy that doesn't believe in God and wants to show us all how stupid we are for putting our faith in a 2000 yr old book. We don't think Gays have the right idea and we don't like our government forming laws to say their life style is ok.

Yea again we get it you disagree with us but hey you think your science is right and we think our creator is right that is something we are going to always disagree on until the end.

I'm sure everyone here has already said a prayer for you, I know I have. Yea again we get it you don't need them but you appreciate them.

Take care bro and you better pray errmm I mean wish? that your right.

God be with you even though you don't know it.

NateR
04-08-2009, 06:41 PM
dropping the soap in the showers after gym is a pretty gay trait ... playing with dolls (GI Joe isn't a doll, but i never had one), asking for an easy bake oven, when it was time to wrestle, you always want to be adrian adonis ... those are some gay traits .......

I've dropped the soap in the shower after working out, but I was by myself (do you even realize how slippery wet soap is?) does that make me gay?

I never played with Barbies or those kinds of dolls, but I liked stuffed animals all the way up until I was in high school and I still collect action figures today. Never cared about the Easy Bake Oven, and never cared about wrestling. So, I guess I pass your test. :laugh:

Girlish voice
girlish mannerisms
girlish physical features (face, posture, etc.)

At such a young age, raised by hetero parents, it seems hard to argue that he just decided to be that way.

I can understand some of that, but I've known "girly" guys who were practically womanizers. I've also known some really masculine, tough guys who were as gay you could be. We had one of those hairy, leatherclad gays living in our barracks in the Army. He would scatter porn magazines around his room to try to convince people he was straight (and to keep from getting kicked out of the Army), but he was definitely gay. We had another sergeant in the Army who exhibited zero feminine traits and wasn't overly masculine either; but when he got out of the Army he was spotted several times walking around Austin, TX with his boyfriend.

Anyways, these are pretty subjective "traits" and unless you can come up with a scientific study that links more than 100 people who exhibit these traits with homosexual behavior, then you're really just talking about individuals, not the human race in general. So, just knowing 1 or 2 or 20 or 30 kids who exhibited these traits and ultimately turned gay, is not enough. However, if you did know over 100 kids in your area that exhibited these traits and all became homosexuals, then I'd be more suspect of the public school curriculum in your area. :blink: :laugh:

County Mike
04-08-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm not saying it proves that gays are born that way. I'm just saying, that's why I personally BELIEVE they're born that way. I suppose some people may also DECIDE to be gay as well. There's no 100% proof either way so I'll just believe that both are possible.

Miss Foxy
04-08-2009, 06:47 PM
I posted the links to give you the evidence, yet you disregard it because it goes against what you believe. I doubt that you even read anything beyond the first paragraph or two.

How did you decide that the writings of the folks of 2k+ years ago who wrote the bible were credible? They had very limited knowledge of the world and science, yet you still believe them that everything that they wrote in the book is true. You never met them did you? Again, you are being either hypocritical or inconsistent with how you determine what is and isn't truth and fact.
Buzzard regardless of the "facts" or "scientific data" must of us still choose to "Walk by faith, not by sight."
With all due respect your entitled to believe what you want, however please understand that no one here is trying to be mean and cruel to gays. Most of us just want to stand up for what is morally right even if its the minority.

NateR
04-08-2009, 06:53 PM
The choice thing is a different matter entirely. Having homosexual desires (I think Dave referred to it as SSA - same sex attraction) is a completely different thing than actually acting upon those desires. Having the urges is not a choice, but acting upon the urges and deciding to follow that as a lifestyle are.

Another example, if a married man suddenly finds himself attracted to another woman, then he has a choice to make. Does he put his marriage and loyalty to his wife above his sexual urges or does he act on the urge? If he just acts upon his urges and lets his physical desires determine his every move, then how is he any better than an animal?

When two people get married, they are expected to put aside their desires for others for the sake of loyalty to their spouse. It's the same with Christianity, if you want to become a Christian, then you have to put aside your natural self and strive for the purity that GOD requires.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 07:08 PM
The choice thing is a different matter entirely. Having homosexual desires (I think Dave referred to it as SSA - same sex attraction) is a completely different thing than actually acting upon those desires. Having the urges is not a choice, but acting upon the urges and deciding to follow that as a lifestyle are.

Another example, if a married man suddenly finds himself attracted to another woman, then he has a choice to make. Does he put his marriage and loyalty to his wife above his sexual urges or does he act on the urge? If he just acts upon his urges and lets his physical desires determine his every move, then how is he any better than an animal?

When two people get married, they are expected to put aside their desires for others for the sake of loyalty to their spouse. It's the same with Christianity, if you want to become a Christian, then you have to put aside your natural self and strive for the purity that GOD requires.


I think that perhaps is a widely held belief. The actual homosexual urge is from birth, the act of homosexuality is completely different.

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 07:13 PM
are you serious? i think he means, you should embrace the fact that you have it and not get help for it ... saying "oh well, i was born with it, nothing i can do" .. there is having a good argument and then just being ridiculous ....

Darn it RNC, I wanted to use my new word on Buzzard I just learned from watching "Bolt". I'm gonna do it anyway. :laugh:

Buzzard.....don't be ridonculous! :tongue0011:


I love that word! :happydancing:

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 07:15 PM
The choice thing is a different matter entirely. Having homosexual desires (I think Dave referred to it as SSA - same sex attraction) is a completely different thing than actually acting upon those desires. Having the urges is not a choice, but acting upon the urges and deciding to follow that as a lifestyle are.

Another example, if a married man suddenly finds himself attracted to another woman, then he has a choice to make. Does he put his marriage and loyalty to his wife above his sexual urges or does he act on the urge? If he just acts upon his urges and lets his physical desires determine his every move, then how is he any better than an animal?

When two people get married, they are expected to put aside their desires for others for the sake of loyalty to their spouse. It's the same with Christianity, if you want to become a Christian, then you have to put aside your natural self and strive for the purity that GOD requires.

Word! :ninja:

(all of it!)

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 08:13 PM
Would anyone accept that a church could say no to allowing gays to marry, but if they did so the church would lose its tax-exemption status?

Crisco
04-08-2009, 08:17 PM
Would anyone accept that a church could say no to allowing gays to marry, but if they did so the church would lose its tax-exemption status?

IF a law is passed stating that churches must marry gays and then the church decides not to an loses its status I 100% agree with that.

The church broke the law and should have to deal with it. It's hard to deal with and that is why the goal is to not let this pass into law.

It should be unconstitutional for the government to demand that churches. You can best believe that the Mosques will not get harrased at all to follow this law.

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 08:26 PM
IF a law is passed stating that churches must marry gays and then the church decides not to an loses its status I 100% agree with that.

The church broke the law and should have to deal with it. It's hard to deal with and that is why the goal is to not let this pass into law.

It should be unconstitutional for the government to demand that churches. You can best believe that the Mosques will not get harrased at all to follow this law.

I believe that what is good for the church, is good for the mosque. I would think that they too have to follow the law.

Why would you not be happy with allowing churches to not marry gays but lose their tax-exempt status? Is it also about the money too?

I feel that it should be unconstitutional to deny gays the same chance of misery in marriage that heterosexuals are allowed.:wink:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 08:36 PM
I believe that what is good for the church, is good for the mosque. I would think that they too have to follow the law.

Why would you not be happy with allowing churches to not marry gays but lose their tax-exempt status? Is it also about the money too?

I feel that it should be unconstitutional to deny gays the same chance of misery in marriage that heterosexuals are allowed.:wink:

I said I was fine with that. If a church doesn't want to follow the law is should lose its benefits. Do I think it is right? hell no... but it's legal.

The muslims will blow themselves up here or there and the law will be taken back.

Forcing a group to perform something they view as morally wrong is tyranical. Religious institutions should not be forced to perform ceremonies for people not of their faith bottom line. It's unfair and ludacris that such an idea exists. I wouldn't go to a mosque and ask to married to a christian woman so why the F do the gays need to go to a Christian church to make a mockery of everything we believe?

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:41 PM
Obama appoints open homosexual to faith-based office

Jim Brown and Jody Brown - OneNewsNow - 4/7/2009 8:00:00 AM

The head of a conservative activist group says President Obama's appointment of a leading homosexual activist to his faith-based council is an ominous sign that he may enforce a "pro-homosexuality orthodoxy" on religious groups receiving federal funds, which is itself a form of bigotry.

Barack Obama has appointed outspoken homosexual activist Harry Knox to the White House Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. Knox, who is the director of the Human Rights Campaign's (HRC) Religion and Faith program, will serve a one-year term on the 25-member Council.

Two years ago during an appearance on MSNBC, Knox argued that scientific evidence supports the notion that certain people are born homosexuals. "What's clear from our experience and from science is that being gay or lesbian is an immutable, unchangeable gift from God -- one for which I'm very grateful," he said. According to the HRC website, Knox is a former licensed pastor of a United Methodist Church in Georgia, and was denied ordination because of his sexual orientation.

Last month, Knox was critical of Pope Benedict's statement that condom usage increases HIV infections. That stance, said Knox, "is hurting people in the name of Jesus." He has also referred to "lesbian and gay" ministerial candidates as "gifted ministers."

HRC cites Knox as "instrumental in creating a national network for 22 progressive state clergy coalitions" across the U.S. But Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, says the HRC staff member is at the forefront of a movement that seeks to rewrite the Bible to support homosexuality.

"Harry Knox is part of an organization which is fundamentally bigoted against Christians and promotes the exclusion of Christians from various fora," he contends. "For example, Human Rights Campaign used its influence to kick me off a diversity panel that I was supposed to be part of on dealing with faith and controversial issues, including homosexuality."

While the HRC staffer claims he "will support the president in living up to his promise that government has no place in funding bigotry against any group of people," LaBarbera says Knox will be "using his influence to keep Christians out of government-funded programs."

Obama established his faith-based office by executive order on February 5, 2009. That office is headed up by Joshua Dubois (see related story).

Dungy says no

Meanwhile, The Associated Press is reporting that former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy has declined an invitation to serve on an advisory council to the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.

Dungy, an evangelical Christian, supported efforts in Indiana to protect traditional marriage in 2007, prompting criticism from liberal groups last week when the invitation was made public. National Public Radio quotes author Sarah Posner, who says Obama's needs to "balance out" the make-up of the council instead of appointing "another evangelical who is opposed to gay marriage" -- a reference to Dungy. To accomplish that, she recommends the president appoint individuals with a different faith perspective that supports same-sex marriage and abortion. Posner defines such individuals as "progressive."


A White House spokesman says Dungy cited scheduling conflicts in declining to serve on the council.
I need to know a bit more about the guy involved.

I would ask why re-addressing the ballence means you have to appoint a pro-homosexual as Director?

I need to know if the guy is a Homosexual, and more importantly if he advocates the practise of it. If he doesnt advocate the practise but suggests celebacy, then I dont have much of a problem with his appointment.

IF on the other hand, he practises, and advocates practising aswell...then yeah its dangerous...I say that because homosexuals in the workplace tend to use each other for resources and stuff...in England its known as "The Pink Pound" that is to say the amount of money that always stays in the Homosexual circle...A Homosexual for example who perhaps only eats at a resturant opperated by another Homosexual, he has a homosexual gardener, his church has a homosexual priest, if he books a holiday...he goes to a homosexual travel agents...it sounds strange, and its not advertized to the outside world, but what gays tend to do really well is NETWORK

Why is this dangerous? because if he's incharge of funds...guess which projects he's going to give his money to :laugh:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:44 PM
This is just a sickening distortion of the truth. There is absolutely ZERO reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are born that way. However, in typical liberal fashion, when you have no facts to support your claim, then lie through your teeth and hope that the audience is stupid enough to believe you.
there is no evidence either way. That has to be said also. :ninja:

There is no evidence its a mental illness, no evidence its genetic, no evidence its a conditioned response.

We actually dont really know what causes it :unsure-1:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:45 PM
:wacko: I highly doubt there will ever be any scientific evidence in our lifetimes that will support such a claim, but I know damn well nobody has ever been born saying things like "Look at thoth panth!" or "Wowwww you guyth.. thoth thingth are enormouth!"
:laugh: is that an attempt at a written camp lisp :laugh:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:46 PM
I think it would suck to be in that position though (gay and not wanting to sin by doing what feels natural)
:cry: it does :unsure-1:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:48 PM
I've known guys who dress up like girls for Halloween but didn't end up gay. That's a pretty weak argument for claiming that he was "born gay."
:blink: Gays dont usually dress up as Women...men that do that are usually Transvestite :unsure:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 08:49 PM
:laugh: is that an attempt at a written camp lisp :laugh:

yea it was terrible

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm torn on the whole "born" vs. "choice".

How do we explain a person who is born a boy or girl but exhibits the "opposite" sex from the young age of a child before they've even gone through puberty or understand what "gay" is? How do we explain when a child is born one sex but literally has the "physical" attributes of the opposite sex? I know there are medical terms for this (being born with opposite organs), but I can't think of them right now.

On the other hand, I think it's simply "easier" for those in society who are awkward around the opposite sex to choose to be with the same sex in every way.

If there is something to some gays being born that way, especially if they are trying to live a Godly life in spite of their feelings, my heart breaks for them. For the other group, I see it as a total "choice" they've made against what God tells us is right.

But, either way, I agree with Crisco, you have to choose what means more to you, this temporary earthly life or your soul.
The way I see it its a moot point

It doesnt matter if your born with it, or its happened due to nurture, or you are ill.

I am reasonably certain without the direct healing of GOD you cant change your feelings...but you cant practise by accident. I mean...hetrosexuals are born with an attraction to the opposite sex...that doesnt mean that they should just run around promiscuiously does it???

You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:54 PM
I find that to be a bit hypocritical.
theres a suprise :rolleyes: :laugh:

County Mike
04-08-2009, 08:54 PM
I mean...hetrosexuals are born with an attraction to the opposite sex...that doesnt mean that they should just run around promiscuiously does it???

You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.

Bollocks!

Crisco
04-08-2009, 08:54 PM
The way I see it its a moot point

It doesnt matter if your born with it, or its happened due to nurture, or you are ill.

I am reasonably certain without the direct healing of GOD you cant change your feelings...but you cant practise by accident. I mean...hetrosexuals are born with an attraction to the opposite sex...that doesnt mean that they should just run around promiscuiously does it???

You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.


It's called booze....




















jk

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Wow, you haven't learned much from your good book.
not sure your qualified to be lecturing a Christian about GODs scriptures neither :rolleyes:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 08:59 PM
The choice thing is a different matter entirely. Having homosexual desires (I think Dave referred to it as SSA - same sex attraction) is a completely different thing than actually acting upon those desires. Having the urges is not a choice, but acting upon the urges and deciding to follow that as a lifestyle are.

:w00t: Proof that the Great Nathan Rosario really does read my posts after all :)

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 09:01 PM
I said I was fine with that. If a church doesn't want to follow the law is should lose its benefits. Do I think it is right? hell no... but it's legal.

The muslims will blow themselves up here or there and the law will be taken back.

Forcing a group to perform something they view as morally wrong is tyranical. Religious institutions should not be forced to perform ceremonies for people not of their faith bottom line. It's unfair and ludacris that such an idea exists. I wouldn't go to a mosque and ask to married to a christian woman so why the F do the gays need to go to a Christian church to make a mockery of everything we believe?

Are you okay then with gays getting married out of the church in non-religious ceremonies?

I haven't really heard of any gay people trying to get married in churches that weren't part of their faith. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it at this moment.

BTW, I'm definitely not trying to appear cool by taking the stance that I have. I appreciate that you feel I am cool :cool: for it and wouldn't want to deny you the right to offer prayers in my name. Could you also pray that I get some winning lotto numbers while you are at it?:biggrin:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:03 PM
Bollocks!
:huh: is this a word association game.... :ninja: :laugh:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:04 PM
It's called booze....




















jknot unless you can accidently drink alcohol without knowing it. :tongue0011:

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:05 PM
I am reasonably certain without the direct healing of GOD you cant change your feelings...but you cant practise by accident. I mean...hetrosexuals are born with an attraction to the opposite sex...that doesnt mean that they should just run around promiscuiously does it???

You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.http://selectroclash.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/booze.jpg

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:06 PM
not unless you can accidently drink alcohol without knowing it. :tongue0011:
if you have enough of it, you can keep drinking even more of it without knowing it:laugh: which could cause you to have sex without fully knowing it:tongue0011:

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:06 PM
The way I see it its a moot point

It doesnt matter if your born with it, or its happened due to nurture, or you are ill.

I am reasonably certain without the direct healing of GOD you cant change your feelings...but you cant practise by accident. I mean...hetrosexuals are born with an attraction to the opposite sex...that doesnt mean that they should just run around promiscuiously does it???

You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.BS!!!!it's called college dave, where have you been:ninja:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 09:07 PM
Are you okay then with gays getting married out of the church in non-religious ceremonies?

I haven't really heard of any gay people trying to get married in churches that weren't part of their faith. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it at this moment.

BTW, I'm definitely not trying to appear cool by taking the stance that I have. I appreciate that you feel I am cool :cool: for it and wouldn't want to deny you the right to offer prayers in my name. Could you also pray that I get some winning lotto numbers while you are at it?:biggrin:

I'm fine with civil unions. A marriage is between a man and woman. There is not a single major church that recognizes gay marriage so there is no way for a gay couple to marry in a church of their faith.

IF you are even attempting to marry a person of the same sex it is really difficult to call yourself a christian.

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:08 PM
if you have enough of it, you can keep drinking even more of it without knowing it:laugh: which could cause you to have sex without fully knowing it:tongue0011:
:mellow: but if you have enough of it....wouldnt you stop drinking :blink:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:08 PM
BS!!!!it's called college dave, where have you been:ninja:
:ashamed: ohhhh I went to University...and at that time in my life...I used to... drink alcohol

County Mike
04-08-2009, 09:08 PM
I accidentally the whole thing!

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:09 PM
:mellow: but if you have enough of it....wouldnt you stop drinking :blink:
if you know your limits, yes....but I'm in college, I think I can count the people with limits on 1 hand

County Mike
04-08-2009, 09:10 PM
I are wnet to collage too. Don't remumber much drikning though.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:10 PM
:ashamed: ohhhh I went to University...and at that time in my life...I used to... drink alcohol
I would never think of doing such a thing:ninja: :Whistle:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 09:15 PM
The Brits and booze just go together.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:17 PM
I are wnet to collage too. Don't remumber much drikning though.what seems to be the probrem occifer.......take me drunk, I'm home

County Mike
04-08-2009, 09:18 PM
The Brits and booze just go together.

If I was British I'd turn to drinking too.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 09:21 PM
If I was British I'd turn to drinking too.

Good point.

God save the queen!

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 09:21 PM
If I was British I'd turn to drinking too.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

County Mike
04-08-2009, 09:23 PM
"God shave the queen"?


How hairy is she?

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:24 PM
God save the queen!
:happydancing: finally something we can aggree on :laugh:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 09:24 PM
"God shave the queen"?


How hairy is she?
:angry:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 09:26 PM
:angry:

according to ali G she isn't hairy at all...


respek!

Moose
04-08-2009, 09:48 PM
I'm not calling people who claim to be born gay liars, I'm just saying that there is no way that even they can know that. Most people's memories don't go back that far.

You wouldn't do that. You'd just call them perverts and sexual deviants, right?

Hughes_GOAT
04-08-2009, 10:00 PM
You cant accidently have sex with anyone, no matter who you are, and where your attraction lies. Its a choice.

well this one time i was.....

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 10:04 PM
well this one time i was.....
I already know about the gay who apparently pulled you at a bus stop or something...wasnt it...I forget now :mellow:

:laugh:

Buzzard
04-08-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm fine with civil unions. A marriage is between a man and woman. There is not a single major church that recognizes gay marriage so there is no way for a gay couple to marry in a church of their faith.

IF you are even attempting to marry a person of the same sex it is really difficult to call yourself a christian.

It's only by your definition that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Why is really difficult to call yourself a christian if you choose to marry a person of the same sex? Is it because you choose to sin? Do you choose to sin? Do you consider yourself a christian if you do choose to sin? Why the difference?

Do you think those that have civil unions should have the exact same benefits as those who are allowed to be traditionally married?

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 10:06 PM
It's only by your definition that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Nope. Its not his defintion.

Its GODs definition :cool:

Do you have me on ignore or are you just being rude :mellow:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 10:14 PM
It's only by your definition that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Why is really difficult to call yourself a christian if you choose to marry a person of the same sex? Is it because you choose to sin? Do you choose to sin? Do you consider yourself a christian if you do choose to sin? Why the difference?

Do you think those that have civil unions should have the exact same benefits as those who are allowed to be traditionally married?

Sure give them every benefit there is. I don't want it called marriage.

I consider myself a Christian for many reasons.

IF you are, Christian marriage is a SACRED institution before God.

Leviticus 18:22 (New King James Version)
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

You cannot be a Christian and try and marry a person of the same sex. When dealing with marriage sins are amplified because of how sacred Marriage is. If you where a true Christian you would not be practicing homosexuality to begin with yes we all slip up but to live in an open affront to God and expect to be saved is crazy.

Believing in God is not enough we have to strive to be Christ like.

Hughes_GOAT
04-08-2009, 10:19 PM
I already know about the gay who apparently pulled you at a bus stop or something...wasnt it...I forget now :mellow:

:laugh:

different story and yes, gays, like straight women, proposition me a lot :laugh:

NateR
04-08-2009, 10:22 PM
It's only by your definition that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Why is really difficult to call yourself a christian if you choose to marry a person of the same sex? Is it because you choose to sin? Do you choose to sin? Do you consider yourself a christian if you do choose to sin? Why the difference?

Do you think those that have civil unions should have the exact same benefits as those who are allowed to be traditionally married?

It's very clear that you know very little about Christianity. The way it works is that we are all born sinful and corrupt. No one is any better than the next person and no one is able to do anything good enough to earn GOD's love. However, despite the fact that we're not worthy, GOD gives His love freely to everyone, including homosexuals. HOWEVER, if we choose to follow Him, then we must first acknowledge our sin and repent of it. Repent means to stop doing bad deeds, turn around and actively work to do good deeds. How do we determine what GOD considers bad and what He considers good? The Bible. He laid it out in His Teachings (the Torah) and homosexuality is very clearly identified as sin, thus bad and against GOD's will for anyone's life.

Is a gay man going to go to Hell for for having sex with another man? No. He's going to go to Hell for the pride he displays in refusing to admit that his actions are sinful.

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Believing in God is not enough we have to strive to be Christ like.

its enough for Salvation


The point is. Salvation is the START of a journey...not its conclusion :)

NateR
04-08-2009, 10:28 PM
its enough for Salvation


The point is. Salvation is the START of a journey...not its conclusion :)

Well, even Satan and all of his demons believe in Jesus Christ and they are not saved. Obviously there is more to it than just belief. A willingness to submit would be another critical step.

Crisco
04-08-2009, 10:29 PM
its enough for Salvation


The point is. Salvation is the START of a journey...not its conclusion :)

Salvation is the belief in Christ and the follow of his teachings.. The devil believes in Jesus but that doesn't mean he is saved David.

Hughes_GOAT
04-08-2009, 10:30 PM
A willingness to submit would be another critical step.

so they have to tap?

Crisco
04-08-2009, 10:30 PM
Well, even Satan and all of his demons believe in Jesus Christ and they are not saved. Obviously there is more to it than just belief. A willingness to submit would be another critical step.

Beat me to it :wink:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 10:31 PM
so they have to tap?

Jesus didn't tap but we have too :laugh:

Bonnie
04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
different story and yes, gays, like straight women, proposition me a lot :laugh:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You poor thing! I don't know how you show yourself in public without being harassed or molested all the time. :rolleyes:

Crisco
04-08-2009, 11:12 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You poor thing! I don't know how you show yourself in public without being harassed or molested all the time. :rolleyes:

You get use to it.

Hughes_GOAT
04-08-2009, 11:24 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You poor thing! I don't know how you show yourself in public without being harassed or molested all the time. :rolleyes:

it's a curse i tell ya....

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 11:51 PM
Well, even Satan and all of his demons believe in Jesus Christ and they are not saved. Obviously there is more to it than just belief. A willingness to submit would be another critical step.
Satan and his demons are not Human. They dont Believe in Him. They simply recognise him for who he is. There is a difference. BIG Difference. Belief is about Trusting in Christ...believeing that he died for your sins...does Lucifer believe that??? about himself in relation to Christ???? No. Lucifer has no Faith in Christ. What he does have is the ability to recognise him. Thats probably because Lucifer is a created being aswell. He knows who Christ is...but to say that the demons "believe in Jesus Christ" is very poor language, especially when we are dealing with salvation.

How can thye believe in Him, when that believf is centred on the Crucifixition...where Jesus died for fallen Man...NOT Satan.

Nathan...Lucifer iis never forgiven.

Are you saying something OTHER then a simple faith/belief...saves?? THAT would mean that Salvation is based on a work...on something YOU do.

LIES

ALL you have to do is Believe. GODs Spirit does the rest. What GODs Spirit does is what Saves...and GOD doesnt extend that offer to Satan.

Havent you heard of the deathbed conversion?? Where is the time to follow Christs commandments then?? No...you follow his commandments because he inspires you with Love, and then you WANT to follow his Commandments...but you are already Saved by that point.

Really...I expected more then a work-based theology from you, considering how much you chide the Roman Catholics for it :laugh:

Tyburn
04-08-2009, 11:54 PM
Salvation is the belief in Christ and the follow of his teachings.. The devil believes in Jesus but that doesn't mean he is saved David.
The following of his teachings...involves Work...it involves Salvation in YOUR hands.

Salvation is NOT based on anything you do other then to accept the FREE gift...that is why it is a FREE gift.

DONT confuse the fact that Saved people automatically begin to change after conversion...with THEM changing. Thats false...what you see is GOD changing them. :)

This offer isnt open to Host...so what they think of Christ is a mute point to this conversation :mellow:

KENTUCKYREDBONE
04-09-2009, 12:37 AM
I do believe most of this Countries religion teach against the sin of a Homosexual lifestyle! Being Christlike and a practicing homo sexual does NOT go together!

Hughes_GOAT
04-09-2009, 01:47 AM
has anyone had a metaphysical or devine type experience in their lives? i have and i don't even go to church or read the Bible regularly. if it wasn't for those experiences, i wouldn't believe. i'm not sure if God is Jehovah or Allah or whoever....but i do know something is out there and it is more powerful than us and it can interfere with us when it so chooses.:scared0015:

Buzzard
04-09-2009, 02:11 AM
Sure give them every benefit there is. I don't want it called marriage.

If you are willing to give them every benefit as marriage, isn't it marriage just by a different name then?

JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.



I consider myself a Christian for many reasons.

IF you are, Christian marriage is a SACRED institution before God.

Leviticus 18:22 (New King James Version)
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

I remember reading before joining that Leviticus doesn't apply any more. Does it still, and if it does, why can you wear clothes of different textiles and eat shellfish? Sorry I don't have the exact scripture to quote, but you are probably familiar with it.

You cannot be a Christian and try and marry a person of the same sex. When dealing with marriage sins are amplified because of how sacred Marriage is. If you where a true Christian you would not be practicing homosexuality to begin with yes we all slip up but to live in an open affront to God and expect to be saved is crazy.

Why are sins amplified if it involves marriage? Does that mean that every sin is amplified, or just ones that people pick and choose from? Wouldn't a true Christian also not deliberately sin? Why is it ok to deliberately sin one way and be a true Christian but not another way?

Believing in God is not enough we have to strive to be Christ like.

I don't see how people who deliberately sin can say that they strive to be Christ-like, all the while trying to deny others of things because of a different sin.



Thanks for the responses.

Crisco
04-09-2009, 05:46 AM
Thanks for the responses.

Some good points made too tired to address them all

But I will say that the reason why sin is amplified with marriage is because it is sacred institution. IF God decries that sex with the same sex is wrong do you think he would condone that abomination to enter into a sacred bond?

Tyburn
04-09-2009, 12:58 PM
has anyone had a metaphysical or devine type experience in their lives? i have and i don't even go to church or read the Bible regularly. if it wasn't for those experiences, i wouldn't believe. i'm not sure if God is Jehovah or Allah or whoever....but i do know something is out there and it is more powerful than us and it can interfere with us when it so chooses.:scared0015:
:unsure-1: not really. Its different for people who are brought up Christian...because they dont really have a moment of conversion. They dont have a "before" time.

I dont think ive always been a Christian...but I've never believed in nothing because ive been bought up in Christianity...so I dont have that "before" and I dont really have a moment, other then one that I choose in retrospect, to represent the day I changed...the day I converted...do you follow :huh:

Hughes_GOAT
04-10-2009, 01:58 AM
:unsure-1: not really. Its different for people who are brought up Christian...because they dont really have a moment of conversion. They dont have a "before" time.

I dont think ive always been a Christian...but I've never believed in nothing because ive been bought up in Christianity...so I dont have that "before" and I dont really have a moment, other then one that I choose in retrospect, to represent the day I changed...the day I converted...do you follow :huh:

yeah i know what you mean. it was more for people who were on the fence or flat out didn't believe but now they do, even if it's not a belief in the main religions. just that they know there is a higher power that made all this crap possible.