PDA

View Full Version : Michael Jordan FINALLY in the HOF


rockdawg21
04-06-2009, 05:56 PM
Jeeze, it's about time the legend was inducted. Other inductees include John Stockton, David Robinson, Jerry Sloan, and C. Vivian Stringer.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9422822/Jordan,-Robinson,-Stockton-among-5-elected-to-Hall?MSNHPHMA

Crisco
04-06-2009, 05:57 PM
Guess they wanted to make sure he was really retired lol

J.B.
04-06-2009, 09:13 PM
Guess they wanted to make sure he was really retired lol

:laugh:

Actually, this was the first season that he became eligible to be inducted.

Jordan was the best the game has ever seen, hands down.

Crisco
04-06-2009, 09:25 PM
:laugh:

Actually, this was the first season that he became eligible to be inducted.

Jordan was the best the game has ever seen, hands down.

1+

Llamafighter
04-06-2009, 09:56 PM
No doubt he was going to be inducted!

matthughesfan21
04-06-2009, 10:06 PM
I miss watching him play, those were the days....Lebron is the next closest thing right now, so I'll settle for that(but he will never be MJ) as a Chicago sports fan, I don't think I really need to explain my feelings on his airness

Crisco
04-06-2009, 10:21 PM
I miss watching him play, those were the days....Lebron is the next closest thing right now, so I'll settle for that(but he will never be MJ) as a Chicago sports fan, I don't think I really need to explain my feelings on his airness

James has the talent but he is a douche

Jonlion
04-06-2009, 10:55 PM
:laugh:

Actually, this was the first season that he became eligible to be inducted.

Jordan was the best the game has ever seen, hands down.


I used to really enjoy watching Basketball but mainly saw Jordan's later years but he was still beyond belief, great man and great athelete.

I used to love the players, the glove Andy Payton at the Sonics, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajawon, Clyde the Gilde Drexler, Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Karl the postman Malone! And when Garnett just arrived on the scene, Jason Kidd and a young Bryant.

I really liked Basketball in them days but just don't enjoy it as much anymore.

logrus
04-06-2009, 10:56 PM
I think Kobe is more Jordan like then Labron.

J.B.
04-07-2009, 12:51 AM
I think Kobe is more Jordan like then Labron.

I think Lebron James has more raw talent than Kobe, and at his young age his potential for improvement is huge. However, when it comes to Jordan, one thing that Michael did better than anybody else was make the teammates around him better players. That is a leadership quality that comes over time, and as of right now Kobe has more of that then Lebron does.

Chuck
04-07-2009, 02:43 AM
I used to really enjoy watching Basketball but mainly saw Jordan's later years but he was still beyond belief, great man and great athelete.

I used to love the players, the glove Andy Payton at the Sonics, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajawon, Clyde the Gilde Drexler, Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Karl the postman Malone! And when Garnett just arrived on the scene, Jason Kidd and a young Bryant.

I really liked Basketball in them days but just don't enjoy it as much anymore.

Gary Payton :wink:

Not bad for a Brit though!! :)

Oh yeah.... and Karl was the Mailman :D

matthughesfan21
04-07-2009, 02:49 AM
I think Lebron James has more raw talent than Kobe, and at his young age his potential for improvement is huge. However, when it comes to Jordan, one thing that Michael did better than anybody else was make the teammates around him better players. That is a leadership quality that comes over time, and as of right now Kobe has more of that then Lebron does.
just curious how you would say Kobe has more of that than Lebron...Lebron has taken a team full of role players to the best record in the NBA this season

matthughesfan21
04-07-2009, 02:49 AM
James has the talent but he is a douche
I disagree with this, how is he a douch? I mean he is no MJ, but I have never really seen anything that negative come from him

Chuck
04-07-2009, 03:03 AM
I disagree with this, how is he a douch? I mean he is no MJ, but I have never really seen anything that negative come from him

I'm with you on this one brother... I'm not the biggest NBA fan in the world but I haven't really seen any negative press surrounding LeBron.

J.B.
04-07-2009, 03:07 AM
just curious how you would say Kobe has more of that than Lebron...Lebron has taken a team full of role players to the best record in the NBA this season

It's plain and simple.

Kobe has 3 championship rings, that means more than anything in the NBA, and the Lakers would not have won them without Kobe. Sure, they had Shaq in his prime, but Kobe made that team what it was. Lebron plays on a team in the Eastern Conference, the competition is not nearly as good as it is in the West. When Lebron finally takes his career to the next level and wins a championship I think he has the potential to explode as hands down the best player in the NBA. Until then, he is still just another superstar.

rockdawg21
04-07-2009, 03:08 AM
I don't understand how anybody could think of Lebron James as a "douche". He's a hard worker, doesn't fight with the refs, get in trouble off court, etc. He's a model of what NBA superstars should be.

Plus, he led the U.S. "Redeem Team" to a gold medal this summer. :happydancing:

J.B.
04-07-2009, 03:11 AM
Oh yeah.... and Karl was the Mailman :D

The Mailman who never managed to deliver the goods...

You can't blame Malone though...lots of great players got denied championship rings because of the Jordan Era. :laugh:

matthughesfan21
04-07-2009, 03:20 AM
It's plain and simple.

Kobe has 3 championship rings, that means more than anything in the NBA, and the Lakers would not have won them without Kobe. Sure, they had Shaq in his prime, but Kobe made that team what it was. Lebron plays on a team in the Eastern Conference, the competition is not nearly as good as it is in the West. When Lebron finally takes his career to the next level and wins a championship I think he has the potential to explode as hands down the best player in the NBA. Until then, he is still just another superstar.its all well and good to throw out the 3 championships, but lebron hasn't been in the league nearly as long as kobe...and Kobe had a much better team around him than Lebron, hell MJ didn't win a championship until he got good players around him as well. Don't discredit lebron because he had to start his career with a bunch of second to third rate players...Just compare these two names for me Shaquille O'Neal/Zydrunas Ilgauskas....nuff said

matthughesfan21
04-07-2009, 03:23 AM
I don't understand how anybody could think of Lebron James as a "douche". He's a hard worker, doesn't fight with the refs, get in trouble off court, etc. He's a model of what NBA superstars should be.

Plus, he led the U.S. "Redeem Team" to a gold medal this summer. :happydancing:
its because he's different...He doesn't fight people in the stands and he doesn't have gang ties...He's the oddball in this era of the nba...I think his tenacity and will to win are the highest I've seen since MJ...I wouldn't say its as high as MJ because I don't think that is humanly possible:laugh:

Chuck
04-07-2009, 03:26 AM
...Just compare these two names for me Shaquille O'Neal/Zydrunas Ilgauskas....nuff said
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Admit it JB.... that was funny!!

J.B.
04-07-2009, 08:10 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Admit it JB.... that was funny!!

:wink: Funny as it may be, he is still wrong on so many levels.

First level... I am not discrediting Lebron. Not at all. In fact, I said he has much more raw talent then Kobe. It's the on-court leadership quality that I said Kobe has the edge on. That comes with winning championships. How long it takes you to do it has NOTHING to do with it. Kobe helped lead a Lakers team to a Championship after only 4 seasons. It took Jordan 7 years. I could see Lebron doing it here in the next couple years. They are both in the same league, but I still think Kobe has that little extra under his belt compared to James in that category for right now.

I also never said that Jordan and Kobe had crappy teams around them when they won championships, but the point is JORDAN AND KOBE MADE THEIR TEAMMATES BETTER PLAYERS. Instead of trying to compare Shaquille O'neal to Zydrunas Ilgauskas, why not look at the fact that the Cavs have had some pretty decent people on their roster since James entered the league.
Ilgauskas is actually a 2 time all star, and they also had players like Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Drew Gooden. James led them to the finals, and they lost. Ben Wallace came in last season, and they made it to the Semi-finals, but they could not stop Boston.

Winning 65 games is great, but it dont mean crap if you fail in the playoffs. Ask my Phoenix Suns that. Still, Lebron IS awesome, and he could very well keep getting betting and better, only time will tell. This league is FULL of good competition right now, and it's no easy road for anybody.

Llamafighter
04-07-2009, 01:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lgAZqhHVGQ
I forget how freaking good Jordan was...

rockdawg21
04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
Nice highlight vid

Jonlion
04-07-2009, 02:17 PM
Gary Payton :wink:

Not bad for a Brit though!! :)

Oh yeah.... and Karl was the Mailman :D


Damm damm and damm!

I knew he was the mailman because he always delivered but i went all english and called him the postman! Does not have the same ring!

And yes!!!!! Gary Payton, not andy, the Glove, really liked him!

Jonlion
04-07-2009, 02:19 PM
The Mailman who never managed to deliver the goods...

You can't blame Malone though...lots of great players got denied championship rings because of the Jordan Era. :laugh:


He was a great payer wasn't he though!

The thing you say is that really Jordan made Scottie Pippen better than perhaps he was, he made Rodman a superstar he never really was! The Bulls and Jordan cost a lot of good players some silverwear!

Chuck
04-07-2009, 02:28 PM
:wink: Funny as it may be, he is still wrong on so many levels.

First level... I am not discrediting Lebron. Not at all. In fact, I said he has much more raw talent then Kobe. It's the on-court leadership quality that I said Kobe has the edge on. That comes with winning championships. How long it takes you to do it has NOTHING to do with it. Kobe helped lead a Lakers team to a Championship after only 4 seasons. It took Jordan 7 years. I could see Lebron doing it here in the next couple years. They are both in the same league, but I still think Kobe has that little extra under his belt compared to James in that category for right now.

I also never said that Jordan and Kobe had crappy teams around them when they won championships, but the point is JORDAN AND KOBE MADE THEIR TEAMMATES BETTER PLAYERS. Instead of trying to compare Shaquille O'neal to Zydrunas Ilgauskas, why not look at the fact that the Cavs have had some pretty decent people on their roster since James entered the league.
Ilgauskas is actually a 2 time all star, and they also had players like Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Drew Gooden. James led them to the finals, and they lost. Ben Wallace came in last season, and they made it to the Semi-finals, but they could not stop Boston.

Winning 65 games is great, but it dont mean crap if you fail in the playoffs. Ask my Phoenix Suns that. Still, Lebron IS awesome, and he could very well keep getting betting and better, only time will tell. This league is FULL of good competition right now, and it's no easy road for anybody.

I agree and disagree but I'm running late for meetings... I'll post later tonight!

Either way...

Jordan Rules... we can agree on that!!

Chuck
04-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Damm damm and damm!

I knew he was the mailman because he always delivered but i went all english and called him the postman! Does not have the same ring!

And yes!!!!! Gary Payton, not andy, the Glove, really liked him!

I was a big GP fan as well... being that I lived in Seattle of course :D

Gary, Shawn Kemp the Reign Man, Mason, Kendell Gill, The X man... we had some talent for a few years that's for sure.

Dumb question... Do you get to watch NBA games live?

Jonlion
04-07-2009, 03:43 PM
I was a big GP fan as well... being that I lived in Seattle of course :D

Gary, Shawn Kemp the Reign Man, Mason, Kendell Gill, The X man... we had some talent for a few years that's for sure.

Dumb question... Do you get to watch NBA games live?

Right about the time of these players you and i have mentioned, (loved Shawn kemp by the way, Vin Baker!, Poor old Hill stuck at Detroit Pistons)

We used to get coverage of NBA on Channel 4 like a mainstream channel, used to be late but used to give highlights and also biopics, you know highlight reels of players who'd they would focus in on, one such week was Payton and got him ripping balls of the great MJ! It was great to see!

I mean i remember watching a couple of All star games, just when Tim Duncan and Garnett were Rookies.

For some reason it went and i havent checked but im sure we only get quick quick highlights of the games now.

Our Skysports (your ESPN i guess) gives brilliant coverage to NFL but it seems NBA isnt deemed as popular.

I guess lack of coverage and that i stopped playing when i left school meant i have sadly lost interest.

Saw the Knicks play at Madison Square, i hope that when im out in America i can make as many american sports games as is possible.

I really think if you get the right place, its a great way to see a certain culture. At the Garden,we were just lumped in with all the other tourists so wasn't all that great.

J.B.
04-07-2009, 04:17 PM
He was a great payer wasn't he though!

The thing you say is that really Jordan made Scottie Pippen better than perhaps he was, he made Rodman a superstar he never really was! The Bulls and Jordan cost a lot of good players some silverwear!

Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman were both great players who were hall of fame caliber even without Michael Jordan. Heck, Rodman is arguably one of the best defensive players ever. However, it's a lot of the other supporting crew that the Bulls had that largely fed of the energy brought by those guys. That is what makes a great team. That is what makes a dynasty.

Jordan had a style and confidence that has been unrivaled in the NBA, and when he was in the zone his teammates got pumped up and more focused too. Guys like Paxson, Kerr, Harper, Armstrong, Longley, Cartwright, and Horace Grant. Jordan made okay players look good, and the good players look great, while leading ALL of them to legendary status.

rockdawg21
04-07-2009, 04:44 PM
Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman were both great players who were hall of fame caliber even without Michael Jordan. Heck, Rodman is arguably one of the best defensive players ever. However, it's a lot of the other supporting crew that the Bulls had that largely fed of the energy brought by those guys. That is what makes a great team. That is what makes a dynasty.

Jordan had a style and confidence that has been unrivaled in the NBA, and when he was in the zone his teammates got pumped up and more focused too. Guys like Paxson, Kerr, Harper, Armstrong, Longley, Cartwright, and Horace Grant. Jordan made okay players look good, and the good players look great, while leading ALL of them to legendary status.
It's true, Jordan had a great supporting cast with some great defensive men (Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, etc.) and some great offensive scoring threats (Scottie Pippen, Steve Kerr - one of the highs 3-pt. % shooters ever).

matthughesfan21
04-07-2009, 05:57 PM
:wink: Funny as it may be, he is still wrong on so many levels.

First level... I am not discrediting Lebron. Not at all. In fact, I said he has much more raw talent then Kobe. It's the on-court leadership quality that I said Kobe has the edge on. That comes with winning championships. How long it takes you to do it has NOTHING to do with it. Kobe helped lead a Lakers team to a Championship after only 4 seasons. It took Jordan 7 years. I could see Lebron doing it here in the next couple years. They are both in the same league, but I still think Kobe has that little extra under his belt compared to James in that category for right now.

I also never said that Jordan and Kobe had crappy teams around them when they won championships, but the point is JORDAN AND KOBE MADE THEIR TEAMMATES BETTER PLAYERS. Instead of trying to compare Shaquille O'neal to Zydrunas Ilgauskas, why not look at the fact that the Cavs have had some pretty decent people on their roster since James entered the league.
Ilgauskas is actually a 2 time all star, and they also had players like Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Drew Gooden. James led them to the finals, and they lost. Ben Wallace came in last season, and they made it to the Semi-finals, but they could not stop Boston.

Winning 65 games is great, but it dont mean crap if you fail in the playoffs. Ask my Phoenix Suns that. Still, Lebron IS awesome, and he could very well keep getting betting and better, only time will tell. This league is FULL of good competition right now, and it's no easy road for anybody.you don't think Lebron is making his teammates better...Do you think that Ilgauskas' all-star appearances were at least partially possible because of Lebron being on his team, it really helps a big man look good when you have lebron taking up all the attention...Lebron plain and simple makes his teammates better as well, he may not have won a championship yet, but to even make it to a championship with a below average roster(http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html)

compare that to the teams Kobe has played with that won championships, the level of talent across the board is higher...I'm not discrediting Kobe, but it just seemed like you were saying lebron doesn't make the players around him better, which imo is complete BS

Jonlion
04-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman were both great players who were hall of fame caliber even without Michael Jordan. Heck, Rodman is arguably one of the best defensive players ever. However, it's a lot of the other supporting crew that the Bulls had that largely fed of the energy brought by those guys. That is what makes a great team. That is what makes a dynasty.

Jordan had a style and confidence that has been unrivaled in the NBA, and when he was in the zone his teammates got pumped up and more focused too. Guys like Paxson, Kerr, Harper, Armstrong, Longley, Cartwright, and Horace Grant. Jordan made okay players look good, and the good players look great, while leading ALL of them to legendary status.


Yeah i didnt mean that Pippen or Rodman for that matter weren't world class but Jordan enhanced their game, but i guess in fairness, they also helped him.

I cannot compete with you on knowledge of this! See i was under the impression that Jordan and Pippen were greats and that whilst a great rebound expert, after Jordan left Rodman's game was never as good.

I may well be wrong!

J.B.
04-07-2009, 06:55 PM
you don't think Lebron is making his teammates better...Do you think that Ilgauskas' all-star appearances were at least partially possible because of Lebron being on his team, it really helps a big man look good when you have lebron taking up all the attention...Lebron plain and simple makes his teammates better as well, he may not have won a championship yet, but to even make it to a championship with a below average roster(http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html)

compare that to the teams Kobe has played with that won championships, the level of talent across the board is higher...I'm not discrediting Kobe, but it just seemed like you were saying lebron doesn't make the players around him better, which imo is complete BS

I never once said that Lebron did not make his teammates better. I just said that he does not have the same credibility in that department as Kobe does at this point in time, and neither one of them are Jordan.

The Cavaliers roster is not and has not been below average for quite some time, and if you really care that I much I will break it down against the Lakers squad with Shaq, but it's kinda silly. Regardless, It don't really work both ways in the NBA. You are either winning championships or you are not. You cannot make it to the finals, lose, and then blame it on sub-par talent. Again, I am not discrediting LeBron by any means. I will say it a third time, I think he has more raw talent than Kobe.

The whole reason this came up was because of a comparison between Kobe and LeBron against MJ. The truth is, nobody is like MJ and nobody will ever be like him. During Jordan's prime, there was no competition for him. He dominated everyone. The game of basketball has not channged, yet the competition is so much tighter today then it was during Jordan's era. There is some great talent in the league today, and some great potential, besides just LeBron and Kobe.

J.B.
04-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Yeah i didnt mean that Pippen or Rodman for that matter weren't world class but Jordan enhanced their game, but i guess in fairness, they also helped him.

I cannot compete with you on knowledge of this! See i was under the impression that Jordan and Pippen were greats and that whilst a great rebound expert, after Jordan left Rodman's game was never as good.

I may well be wrong!

Oh, I hear ya bro, don't sweat it! I love talking basketball, especially in April. :laugh:

Jordan definitely enhanced their games. Thats why he was the greatest. :)

As for Rodman, he was already getting old when he came to the Bulls, and he was not as good in his later years with the Lakers or the Mavericks, but that is pretty much any old player. Still, he was awesome with the pistons and spurs before he came to the Bulls, and he was a 7 time all defense first team player and 7 time rebounding champion. Plus a bunch of other odd stats that are just crazy. Also, Phil Jackson seriously said that Rodman was the hardest working athlete he ever coached.

Jonlion
04-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Oh, I hear ya bro, don't sweat it! I love talking basketball, especially in April. :laugh:

Jordan definitely enhanced their games. Thats why he was the greatest. :)

As for Rodman, he was already getting old when he came to the Bulls, and he was not as good in his later years with the Lakers or the Mavericks, but that is pretty much any old player. Still, he was awesome with the pistons and spurs before he came to the Bulls, and he was a 7 time all defense first team player and 7 time rebounding champion. Plus a bunch of other odd stats that are just crazy. Also, Phil Jackson seriously said that Rodman was the hardest working athlete he ever coached.


Ah i see, i only really saw him with the Bulls and then the subsequent slide but how could anyone better them years with the Bulls!

Wasn't aware of how good Rodman was before that, just knew he was a colourful character.

I certainly miss them guys, my favourite teams were always Houston, San Antonio, and the Sonics.

i miss playing basketball, was never very good but enjoyed playing it!

rearnakedchoke
04-07-2009, 10:38 PM
jordan definitely made the guys around him better .... i also like stockton, dude had some serious passing skills .... i don't think malone gets his type numbers or HOF without him ... also, there are only certain guys that can dominate the game ... i think jordan, lebron, shaq and duncan are guys like that ... kobe is good, but he hasn't proven that he can make the guys around him better like these others have ...

J.B.
04-08-2009, 03:03 AM
kobe is good, but he hasn't proven that he can make the guys around him better like these others have ...

Wrong :)

Chuck
04-08-2009, 04:14 AM
:wink: Funny as it may be, he is still wrong on so many levels.

1. I am not discrediting Lebron. Not at all. In fact, I said he has much more raw talent then Kobe.

2. It's the on-court leadership quality that I said Kobe has the edge on.

3.That comes with winning championships. How long it takes you to do it has NOTHING to do with it.

4. why not look at the fact that the Cavs have had some pretty decent people on their roster since James entered the league.

5. Winning 65 games is great, but it dont mean crap if you fail in the playoffs.

6. Lebron IS awesome, and he could very well keep getting betting and better, only time will tell.

1. I get that from you JB and I respect that. In all of our talks/debates about sports, boxing, Super Bowl etc you have always been respectful and you always bring up intelligent points. So I guess I just wanted to say thanks for being somebody who can have a good discussion and not just post abunch of bias crap. Derek is another guy that I love talking sports with on here btw :wink:

2. Obviously you aren't including off the court incidents or Kobe wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as LeBron. As far as on the court.. I disagree. When you talk Kobe you hear things like selfish, ball hog, prima donna etc.. I don't think he makes the people around him better at all. I think most people who get traded from the Lakers are relived to be away from him. Now I will give you this much.. I haven't followed him in about 2 years so it's certainly possible he's grown up and matured... but the Kobe I remember was a lot of things.... but a leader wasn't one of them .

3. I think Championships are a horrible litmus test on greatness. If we go by that then obviously Steve Kerr is a much, much better player then Stockton. Big Ben would be better then Marino etc... Championships are important no doubt but they can't be the determining factor in my opinion. IF how long it takes to win them means nothing then we can't even use that as criteria until both players are retired.

4. "decent" maybe... but nobody, absolutely nobody even close to Shaq, Pippen, Rodman or Fisher.

5. Failing in the playoffs is exactly what the Lakers and Kobe have done every single year since Shaq left. How many rings has he won without Shaq?

6. I do think LeBron is awesome and he is the only player I see or have seen that has a chance at becoming as great or nearly as great as MJ.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:27 AM
1. I get that from you JB and I respect that. In all of our talks/debates about sports, boxing, Super Bowl etc you have always been respectful and you always bring up intelligent points. So I guess I just wanted to say thanks for being somebody who can have a good discussion and not just post abunch of bias crap. Derek is another guy that I love talking sports with on here btw :wink:

2. Obviously you aren't including off the court incidents or Kobe wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as LeBron. As far as on the court.. I disagree. When you talk Kobe you hear things like selfish, ball hog, prima donna etc.. I don't think he makes the people around him better at all. I think most people who get traded from the Lakers are relived to be away from him. Now I will give you this much.. I haven't followed him in about 2 years so it's certainly possible he's grown up and matured... but the Kobe I remember was a lot of things.... but a leader wasn't one of them .

3. I think Championships are a horrible litmus test on greatness. If we go by that then obviously Steve Kerr is a much, much better player then Stockton. Big Ben would be better then Marino etc... Championships are important no doubt but they can't be the determining factor in my opinion. IF how long it takes to win them means nothing then we can't even use that as criteria until both players are retired.

4. "decent" maybe... but nobody, absolutely nobody even close to Shaq, Pippen, Rodman or Fisher.

5. Failing in the playoffs is exactly what the Lakers and Kobe have done every single year since Shaq left. How many rings has he won without Shaq?

6. I do think LeBron is awesome and he is the only player I see or have seen that has a chance at becoming as great or nearly as great as MJ.I agree on most of your points, Kobe has become a much better passer though, I believe he is averaging about 5 APG this season, but lebron is averaging about 7, Lebron has always been a better passer than Kobe, but Bryant is starting to show he cares more about the team concept than he used to, but imo its still not on the level as Lebron

Chuck
04-08-2009, 04:40 AM
I agree on most of your points, Kobe has become a much better passer though, I believe he is averaging about 5 APG this season, but lebron is averaging about 7, Lebron has always been a better passer than Kobe, but Bryant is starting to show he cares more about the team concept than he used to, but imo its still not on the level as Lebron

Well you better agree with me ya jackass!! Not only did I compliment you but I was supporting your opinion of LeBron!!!

:tongue0011: :tongue0011:

J.B.
04-08-2009, 05:05 AM
1. I get that from you JB and I respect that. In all of our talks/debates about sports, boxing, Super Bowl etc you have always been respectful and you always bring up intelligent points. So I guess I just wanted to say thanks for being somebody who can have a good discussion and not just post abunch of bias crap. Derek is another guy that I love talking sports with on here btw :wink:

2. Obviously you aren't including off the court incidents or Kobe wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as LeBron. As far as on the court.. I disagree. When you talk Kobe you hear things like selfish, ball hog, prima donna etc.. I don't think he makes the people around him better at all. I think most people who get traded from the Lakers are relived to be away from him. Now I will give you this much.. I haven't followed him in about 2 years so it's certainly possible he's grown up and matured... but the Kobe I remember was a lot of things.... but a leader wasn't one of them .

3. I think Championships are a horrible litmus test on greatness. If we go by that then obviously Steve Kerr is a much, much better player then Stockton. Big Ben would be better then Marino etc... Championships are important no doubt but they can't be the determining factor in my opinion. IF how long it takes to win them means nothing then we can't even use that as criteria until both players are retired.

4. "decent" maybe... but nobody, absolutely nobody even close to Shaq, Pippen, Rodman or Fisher.

5. Failing in the playoffs is exactly what the Lakers and Kobe have done every single year since Shaq left. How many rings has he won without Shaq?

6. I do think LeBron is awesome and he is the only player I see or have seen that has a chance at becoming as great or nearly as great as MJ.

1. I love talking sports with Derek too, he is great, even though he is a Cubs fan. :wink:

2. You are right. I am not talking about off the court stuff, because that has nothing to do with my point. As for Kobe being labeled a "ball hog" or "prima donna", that is just haters hating. They said the same crap about Jordan, and they say it about LeBron from time to time too. Sometimes you need to be a ball hog in the NBA. Thats just how it is. Having won multiple championships and being the top player in the league gives you INSTANT respect. Kobe Bryant has that edge simply because of how good he is and what he has accomplished. I don't doubt that LeBron can surpass Kobe, by all accounts he definitely SHOULD. However, for today, Kobe is still the man. Ya know, Jordan scorned his teammates when they did not play well, and then they got with the program and started winning championships. Kobe has done the same, but gotten flack for it. Here is an article from ESPN you should like. It basically says that people think Kobe is the better player, but LeBron is a better leader. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Roundtable-KobeLeBron


3. Championships ARE the litmus test in the NBA. We are not talking football, that is different. Basketball is much easier to win a championship than football, and teams can succeed with only 1 or 2 star players, although that is happening less and less nowadays. Sure, there are tons of great players who did not win championships in the NBA, but that was called the "Jordan Era". Thats why MJ is better than anybody else. I understand your logic, but when we think of great teams and dynasties in the NBA their success is always attributed almost solely to 1 or 2, maybe 3 STAR players. Of course Basketball IS a team sport, but their are many skill levels in between riding the bench and being on billboards. It's not a black and white issue. Sure, Steve Kerr was a great 3 point shooter, but he was NEVER a successful team leader or major star. John Stockton would have gotten his rings, but Jordan said NO. Steve Kerr needed Jordan. See where I am going?
Also, for the record, Steve Kerr sucks as a general manager and I don't think I can forgive him for ruining the Phoenix Suns.

4. You may be right in the sense that nobody on the Cavs matches up in skill level to those individual stars, but it's a moot point. The league has changed a lot in the last 10 years, even the last 5. The level of competition in the Western Conference is CRAZY, and in the post Jordan era we are seeing that dynasties can't be built as easily. On any given night, almost any team can win. So any team that is consistently making the playoffs and even going as deep as the finals has to have a GOOD roster.

5. You are exactly right. The Lakers have failed to win a Championship since Shaq left. Still, last time I checked, winning three championships is still more than winning zero championships, which is what LeBron has won.

6. At the Forward position, James is not ever going to be able to achieve the status that Jordan did. This is total speculation at this point, but I can see that the older he gets, the less prolific his scoring is going to be, and as the competition gets fiercer LeBron will not be as much of a threat unless he gets into system with 2 major stars, with at least one being a point guard. If I had to pick a favorite "young" player right now, I would pick Dwayne Wade, but that's just me. :)

Damn, I type a lot...:frantics:

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 05:10 AM
Well you better agree with me ya jackass!! Not only did I compliment you but I was supporting your opinion of LeBron!!!

:tongue0011: :tongue0011:I think its obvious here who I prefer of the two, but I don't have a problem with Kobe, he is a spectacular player, I just personally would rather have Lebron on my team

J.B.
04-08-2009, 05:19 AM
I think its obvious here who I prefer of the two, but I don't have a problem with Kobe, he is a spectacular player, I just personally would rather have Lebron on my team

If I am rebuilding a team, then yes I take James too.

If I am one player away from winning a championship, I take Kobe.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 05:43 AM
If I am rebuilding a team, then yes I take James too.

If I am one player away from winning a championship, I take Kobe.
If you got a good enough team where you are only 1 player away from winning a championship, I don't think it means sh*t who you pick, you get either, chances are you are bringing home the trophy:laugh:

J.B.
04-08-2009, 05:58 AM
If you got a good enough team where you are only 1 player away from winning a championship, I don't think it means sh*t who you pick, you get either, chances are you are bringing home the trophy:laugh:

Well, that depends on what your budget and your current roster looks like. Most cases, the guard goes first, but I agree with you. :)

My point was more that LeBron is younger, and you could easily build a team around him.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 06:17 AM
Well, that depends on what your budget and your current roster looks like. Most cases, the guard goes first, but I agree with you. :)

My point was more that LeBron is younger, and you could easily build a team around him.first of all, if you have a tight budget, you can't afford either one, they are the two best players in the league and you would have to pay them accordingly...second of all, Lebron is pretty versatile, he can handle the ball pretty well, once he gets the ball at the top of the key and he decides he is going to drive to the basket, you are gonna stop him, and if you do, he is going to the line most likely

J.B.
04-08-2009, 06:49 AM
first of all, if you have a tight budget, you can't afford either one, they are the two best players in the league and you would have to pay them accordingly...second of all, Lebron is pretty versatile, he can handle the ball pretty well, once he gets the ball at the top of the key and he decides he is going to drive to the basket, you are gonna stop him, and if you do, he is going to the line most likely

Look, I agree with you bro. I get the feeling you are not fully reading my posts.

However, I never said "if you have a tight budget".

I said; "that depends on what your current budget and roster looks like". There is a difference there.

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 06:56 AM
Look, I agree with you bro. I get the feeling you are not fully reading my posts.

However, I never said "if you have a tight budget".

I said; "that depends on what your current budget and roster looks like". There is a difference there.oh I'm fully reading your posts...when it comes to sports, I'll read it all, I'm just molding certain parts to better compliment what I want to say:ninja: :laugh:

J.B.
04-08-2009, 07:54 AM
oh I'm fully reading your posts...when it comes to sports, I'll read it all, I'm just molding certain parts to better compliment what I want to say:ninja: :laugh:

Then you would fit right into the politics threads too! :)

Seriously though, like I said to Chuck, I do love talking sports with you. We agree on some stuff but we always have an intelligent and respectful discussion.

I feel like sometimes the "sports" section is kind of the forgotten section on this forum so I like to flex my muscles in here :laugh:

timmyja
04-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Man, I forgot all about Horace Grant until this thread! That dude had some SICK goggles!

rearnakedchoke
04-08-2009, 02:05 PM
Wrong :)
we'll see this year ... he has a championship calibre team .. he just doesn't have shaq to fall back on ... he can't lead a team when the going gets tough ...

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:27 PM
Then you would fit right into the politics threads too! :)

Seriously though, like I said to Chuck, I do love talking sports with you. We agree on some stuff but we always have an intelligent and respectful discussion.

I feel like sometimes the "sports" section is kind of the forgotten section on this forum so I like to flex my muscles in here :laugh:
difference is, I actually give a rat's arse about sports

matthughesfan21
04-08-2009, 04:28 PM
Then you would fit right into the politics threads too! :)

Seriously though, like I said to Chuck, I do love talking sports with you. We agree on some stuff but we always have an intelligent and respectful discussion.

I feel like sometimes the "sports" section is kind of the forgotten section on this forum so I like to flex my muscles in here :laugh:HERE HERE....if this section got more posting in it, I probably wouldn't need to post anywhere else

cheachea
04-11-2009, 11:44 PM
I got to say I really miss the Jordan years of the NBA.

J.B.
04-12-2009, 06:56 AM
I got to say I really miss the Jordan years of the NBA.

I agree...:)