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View Full Version : Nelson Mandela died tonight


Tyburn
12-05-2013, 09:45 PM
:sad: Its really sad :cry:

rearnakedchoke
12-06-2013, 01:22 PM
yes .. very sad ...

Tyburn
12-06-2013, 06:38 PM
South African President Jacob Zuma said "the nation has lost its greatest son", adding: "He is now resting. He is now at peace." "Our people have lost a father," said Mr Zuma.

"Although we knew this day was going to come, nothing can diminish our sense of a profound and enduring loss.

"His tireless struggle for freedom earned him the respect of the world. His humility, passion and humanity, earned him their love."

UK Prime Minister David Cameron, speaking outside Downing Street, said: "Tonight one of the brightest lights of our world has gone out.

"Nelson Mandela was not just a hero of our time, but a hero of all time.
"Through his dignity, through his triumph, (he) inspired millions."

"He achieved more than can be expected of any man - and today he's gone home," said President Obama.

"We've lost one of the most influential, courageous and profoundly good human beings that any of us will share time with on this earth."

"He no longer belongs to us - he belongs to the ages."

The Queen said she was "deeply saddened" by Nelson Mandela's death, saying he "worked tirelessly for the good of his country, and his legacy is the peaceful South Africa we see today".

South Africa's archbishop emeritus Desmond Tutu said South Africa was "drowned by grief".

"He was a unifier from the moment he walked out of prison," he said.


Former Irish president Mary Robinson "As we mourn the passing of this extraordinary man, and young people around the world feel a particular sense of loss, we can honour him best by giving of ourselves to others."

French President Francois Hollande added: "Nelson Mandela's message will not disappear. It will continue to inspire fighters for freedom, and to give confidence to peoples in the defence of just causes and universal rights."

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said: "He spent much of his life standing against the injustice of apartheid.

"When that fight was won, he inspired us again by his capacity to forgive and reconcile his country.

"While the world may never see another Nelson Mandela, he has inspired countless men and women throughout the world to live more courageous and honest lives."

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond described him as a "towering statesman" whose influence "transcended ideology, race and creed".

UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon said: "Only because of such a great man like Nelson Mandela is it possible that particular people in Africa and elsewhere are able to enjoy freedom and human dignity."We have to learn the wisdom and determinations and commitment of Mr Mandela to make this world better for all."

US Secretary of State John Kerry said: "Now that his long walk has ended, the example he set for all humanity lives on. He will be remembered as a pioneer for peace."

A joint message from President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, and President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, said: "We mourn the death of one of the greatest political figures of our times.

"Nelson Mandela represents the fight against racism, political violence and intolerance. Only a person with his profound humanity, moral integrity and authority and clear vision for the future of his country, could have achieved this."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he was the "father of his people", adding: "He will be remembered as the father of new South Africa and as an outstanding moral leader."

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "Nelson Mandela's shining example and his political legacy of non-violence and the condemnation of all forms of racism will continue to inspire people around the world for many years to come.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described Mr Mandela as "one of the greatest politicians in modern times", saying the former South African leader was a man who never betrayed his convictions.

"Mandela, having gone through the most difficult ordeals, was committed to the end of his days to the ideals of humanism and justice," Mr Putin was quoted as saying in a statement

County Mike
12-06-2013, 06:39 PM
Nelson Mandela was the leader of Spear of the Nation [MK], the terrorist wing of the ANC. MK murdered countless people and advocated mass genocide of all white people in Africa. MK also slaughtered members of South African tribes who had gained independence or were in the process of gaining independence under the Apartheid plan.

MK was armed by the Soviet Union and trained by Cubans. When Mandela was arrested, he had a massive stockpile of landmines, hand grenades, and explosives. Joe Slovo, a Jewish man from Lithuania took command of MK when Mandela went to prison for numerous murders. Slovo later became head of the South African Communist Party.

While Mandela was in prison, his wife Winnie Mandela ordered followers to carry out numerous gruesome killings of black people she deemed to be “race traitors.” Many of the victims were women or teenage boys. They were killed by being burned alive with a gasoline soaked tire around their neck.

I'm not so upset with his passing.

flo
12-07-2013, 12:40 AM
Nelson Mandela was the leader of Spear of the Nation [MK], the terrorist wing of the ANC. MK murdered countless people and advocated mass genocide of all white people in Africa. MK also slaughtered members of South African tribes who had gained independence or were in the process of gaining independence under the Apartheid plan.

MK was armed by the Soviet Union and trained by Cubans. When Mandela was arrested, he had a massive stockpile of landmines, hand grenades, and explosives. Joe Slovo, a Jewish man from Lithuania took command of MK when Mandela went to prison for numerous murders. Slovo later became head of the South African Communist Party.

While Mandela was in prison, his wife Winnie Mandela ordered followers to carry out numerous gruesome killings of black people she deemed to be “race traitors.” Many of the victims were women or teenage boys. They were killed by being burned alive with a gasoline soaked tire around their neck.

I'm not so upset with his passing.

But, but Mike...that's not PC.

Greg Gutfeld is the only talking head I've heard that has even hinted at the gross double standard in the over-wrought reactions to Mandela's passing. Of course, no one is mentioning the state of SA now...

Your points are 100% accurate. I'm not so upset either.

Bonnie
12-07-2013, 03:02 AM
Nelson Mandela was the leader of Spear of the Nation [MK], the terrorist wing of the ANC. MK murdered countless people and advocated mass genocide of all white people in Africa. MK also slaughtered members of South African tribes who had gained independence or were in the process of gaining independence under the Apartheid plan.

MK was armed by the Soviet Union and trained by Cubans. When Mandela was arrested, he had a massive stockpile of landmines, hand grenades, and explosives. Joe Slovo, a Jewish man from Lithuania took command of MK when Mandela went to prison for numerous murders. Slovo later became head of the South African Communist Party.

While Mandela was in prison, his wife Winnie Mandela ordered followers to carry out numerous gruesome killings of black people she deemed to be “race traitors.” Many of the victims were women or teenage boys. They were killed by being burned alive with a gasoline soaked tire around their neck.

I'm not so upset with his passing.

But, but Mike...that's not PC.

Greg Gutfeld is the only talking head I've heard that has even hinted at the gross double standard in the over-wrought reactions to Mandela's passing. Of course, no one is mentioning the state of SA now...

Your points are 100% accurate. I'm not so upset either.

Wow, I didn't know any of that about Mandela. I remember hearing things about Winnie Mandela after his release, and that he divorced her, I believe, for things she had done while he was in prison, but didn't know a lot about it.

They've been talking about how he brought the country together, I haven't heard any of this stuff mentioned.

County Mike
12-07-2013, 03:20 AM
When he was released from prison, he started talking about peace and harmony and media labeled him as a humanitarian. They chose to ignore what he did in the fight against the white population of south Africa.

Maybe he became a better person after prison, but he's not the peaceful saint the media makes him out to be.

Tyburn
12-07-2013, 02:33 PM
Nelson Mandela was the leader of Spear of the Nation [MK], the terrorist wing of the ANC. MK murdered countless people and advocated mass genocide of all white people in Africa. MK also slaughtered members of South African tribes who had gained independence or were in the process of gaining independence under the Apartheid plan.

MK was armed by the Soviet Union and trained by Cubans. When Mandela was arrested, he had a massive stockpile of landmines, hand grenades, and explosives. Joe Slovo, a Jewish man from Lithuania took command of MK when Mandela went to prison for numerous murders. Slovo later became head of the South African Communist Party.

While Mandela was in prison, his wife Winnie Mandela ordered followers to carry out numerous gruesome killings of black people she deemed to be “race traitors.” Many of the victims were women or teenage boys. They were killed by being burned alive with a gasoline soaked tire around their neck.

I'm not so upset with his passing.

He wasnt leader for very long before he was imprisoned...and I suppose it boils down to whether you believe there are causes worth fighting, physically for...I believe that when Americans do it, the tendancy is to call them patriots...no?

I mean you hear a lot about the Government coming to get your guns...so burry them...so you presumably can dig them up and use them.

Are you trying to tell me if your Government decided to move against you...you would just peacefully protest?

Is one really a terrorist..if they are fighting a corrupt Government in the first place??

Its a tricky deffinition...easy, very easy to define if the Government wins...but not so easy to define, if the leader of the rebellion, becomes the President of the Government...and decides to work WITH the Government once in power.

Is it just because the ANC won, that he is praised so much...maybe so...you know what they say...History is written by the Victors...like him or not...he won his cause, prevented a civil war, and then stopped internal retribution when he was given the legal right to carry it out. Only someone who was such a leader would be able to do that...the IRA failed when they became a political authority.

I personally think he fought for change, not for the sake of fighting, and once the change happened, he had no longer any need to fight. I think he didnt carry out retribution because he had a command over the paramilitary wing, and because he maybe regarded what was done to his creed, as something comitted during a time of war...and in war times...killings on both sides happen.

I hasten to add...I'm not sure he would have looked at himself in the same way as all the politicians that are applauding him would

County Mike
12-07-2013, 07:57 PM
It's not the fact that he killed for his cause. It's the fact of who and how he killed. He promoted the idea of killing "every white person in South Africa". He killed other blacks who he felt sided with the white leaders. He killed people publically by putting a gas-filled tire around their neck and lighting it on fire.

I have no problem with someone fighting against a corrupt government. If he stuck to fighting and killing the enemy, I'd have no problem calling him a hero. However, he was a terrorist.

NateR
12-07-2013, 09:56 PM
...I believe that when Americans do it, the tendancy is to call them patriots...no?

Yeah, yeah, we've heard that argument A LOT since 9/11 and it's just as ridiculous now as it was back then. It's meant to manipulate people who are ignorant of world history and only those who are ignorant of world history will fall for it.

When our Founding Fathers led the revolution against the British, they weren't attacking civilians in an effort to spread terror throughout the land. The British were the ones doing that. Which is why we were rebelling against them.

Using your logic, Dave, you'd think that we Americans would hail Timothy McVeigh as a patriot for the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, but he was executed in 2001 for killing 168 people and wounding over 650 others. His accomplice, Terry Nichols, received a life sentence for the terrorist attack. Never once did the word "patriot" come up to describe those two men.

So, you would really have to be a moron to believe "when Americans do it, the tendancy is to call them patriots…no?"

Tyburn
12-08-2013, 05:36 PM
It's not the fact that he killed for his cause. It's the fact of who and how he killed. He promoted the idea of killing "every white person in South Africa". He killed other blacks who he felt sided with the white leaders. He killed people publically by putting a gas-filled tire around their neck and lighting it on fire.

I have no problem with someone fighting against a corrupt government. If he stuck to fighting and killing the enemy, I'd have no problem calling him a hero. However, he was a terrorist.

If that was the case...how do you explain what he did after release from prison.

Someone who seriously believes that does not run for democratic ellection in a minority backing...and win...AND work with White people for the following decade whilst in office.

I think its true to say that he probably issued orders to kill people before he went into Prison. I doubt, he, personally, killed anyone. People at the top never get dirt on their own hands.

Wholistically he must have done more good then ill...do you write him off completely because he was involved in Killings, or ordered killings, of specific ethnicities, against the rulling elite of his time...and say because he did that, you cant possibly think highly of him for Uniting a Nation.

Do you apply the same harsh logic to George Washington? Someone who probably did a very similar role? How do you think the British Government viewed him? I suspect they viewed him as a Terrorist, an inciter of violence against a legitmate authority, leader of an armed rebellion, a Traitor to the rulling elite...

The difference is that had the British Government caught him...like the South African Government caught Nelson Mandela...George Washington would not have sat Twenty Seven Years in Pruison....which is another reason I doubt just how personally involved Mandela was...I mean...if he was as bad as you make out...surely they would have killed him...its what you do with successful Terrorists...as in, those who have carried out successful attacks...especially back in the years just after the second world war!

Tyburn
12-08-2013, 05:48 PM
When our Founding Fathers led the revolution against the British, they weren't attacking civilians in an effort to spread terror throughout the land. The British were the ones doing that. Which is why we were rebelling against them.



That depends on who you ask in 1776 doesnt it.

If you asked anyone from England, they would have told you quite clearly, that the Master can not rebel against the servant. England had legitamate rule, and with that, they can rule exactly as they see fit, after all, the very ground that those collonies were based on was soverign British Soil. It belonged to England. It was a posession of Imperialism.

...and the reason that you were trying to free yourself was not through arbitary attacks by British Authorities...after all...the British Authorities wouldnt have attacked THEIR OWN POPULAS...unless of course, the Collonies had decided that they were going to trade with a nation we were at war with.

I quite suspect that if the US Federal Government, found the State Government of Hawaii was doing arms deals with Bin Ladens associates...that they may well not treat the Hawaiian very kindly.

That was the situation of the British Government...their own Collonies, doing deals with their sworne enemies...and they crying, when the King decided that perhaps they should pay more taxes, and not have representation in Whitehall....is it any wonder the British treated you so bad...? WTH would they treat an insubordinate and treacherous group of individuals with anything but contempt???

But...like with Nelson Mandela...The Militia actually won...and thus they get to write their victory version of events. Mandela and Washington have a lot in common...which is why your level of hypocrasy is stunning.

Personally...I see they both did some naughty things...but they both did great good. I am not prepared to cast one into Hell and free the other...I am also not really going to cast them both into Hell, when they had their visions, they did what needed to be done to bring that vision to reality, and then they both left lasting legacies of peacful triumph.

There are VERY few people like Washington and Mandela in History. Both were prepared to risk it all for their vision. People are all talk these days.

rearnakedchoke
12-10-2013, 07:33 PM
go look at the laws at the time of apartheid ... education laws ... blacks were only allowed to be taught certain subjects

"There is no place for [the Bantu] in the European community above the level of certain forms of labour ... What is the use of teaching the Bantu child mathematics when it cannot use it in practice?"

segregation laws ... and this was not that long ago ... not everyone can do what gandhi did ...

go read some of pw bothas quotes of the time of the mentality of the south african govt ...

Tyburn
12-10-2013, 07:40 PM
I think the Funeral/Memorial things have started now havent they...some kind of wake for the public has been and gone, a certain length of lying in State, and then a small funeral at the weekend.

I know a few black south africans...and they dont seem to harbour any hate for the man, despite some of the American objections on this forum that Nelson was involved in killing blacks and whites.