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Play The Man
09-26-2013, 08:59 PM
"First of all, if you've got health insurance, you like your doctor, you like your plan - you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you."
President Barack Obama
7/16/2009
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT NEW JERSEY RALLY FOR GOVERNOR JON CORZINE

Yesterday (less than a week before Obamacare kicks in), I received a letter from my doctor that he is closing his practice and changing to a VIP practice model. If I want to keep my doctor I have to pay a $1,650 per year subscription fee; otherwise, I have to find a new doctor. In addition, beginning this year our insurance plan was closed and we were folded into another insurance company. Obama is such a liar. Our press is so dishonest and corrupt that they don't print stories contrary to the party line. I'm livid.

CAVEMAN1
09-26-2013, 09:20 PM
This whole thing IS and WILL be a complete disaster. I'm currently on my wife's health insurance because it is much better than what my employer currently provides. My wife just received a letter from her employer that effective January 1, any employee with a spouse on his/her insurance will have to pay an extra $50.00 per paycheck.:angry: This very thing was warned about over a year ago. Employers will eventually provide for the employees ONLY and spouses/children will have to go somewhere else.

That totally sux about your doc. I'm hearing similar stories from others. Like everything the government creates.......the devil is in the details. Sure you can keep your doctor, but it may not be affordable. And wasn't this called the affordable care act?

Bonnie
09-27-2013, 12:52 AM
Will Obamacare be the thing that finally makes people realize the golden idol they've been worshipping for five years is not GOD?

NateR
09-27-2013, 01:29 AM
You also gotta love how all of our Congressmen who voted this trainwreck into law only did so after they made sure they would be exempt from it.

Bonnie
09-27-2013, 04:05 AM
You also gotta love how all of our Congressmen who voted this trainwreck into law only did so after they made sure they would be exempt from it.

As usual they pass crap law for we the people, but they end up exempted. We know we're paying for theirs, we just don't know if we're going to be able to afford ours. What's wrong with this picture?! :angry:

TexasRN
09-27-2013, 09:53 AM
A lot of doctors are having to go to this practice model in order to survive. We will see more and more doctors making difficult choices and we'll end up with a shortage in just a few years.



~Amy

County Mike
09-27-2013, 01:55 PM
Worst President Ever.


Are you ready for the revolution? I'd like to think I am, but in reality, I'm probably not. I need to stockpile more.

rearnakedchoke
09-27-2013, 03:55 PM
A lot of doctors are having to go to this practice model in order to survive. We will see more and more doctors making difficult choices and we'll end up with a shortage in just a few years.



~Amy

i am not going to pretend to be an expert at this obamacare business, but i doubt a lot of doctors will be needing to go to that model "to survive" ... the problem is the medical world has been colluding for years in keeping prices high on their work and now they are just going to try whatever they can to keep their profit margins high ... sure, they have the right to do that, but i don't think they are gonna get much sympathy when they can now only afford one summer house instead of two ...

TexasRN
09-28-2013, 01:12 PM
i am not going to pretend to be an expert at this obamacare business, but i doubt a lot of doctors will be needing to go to that model "to survive" ... the problem is the medical world has been colluding for years in keeping prices high on their work and now they are just going to try whatever they can to keep their profit margins high ... sure, they have the right to do that, but i don't think they are gonna get much sympathy when they can now only afford one summer house instead of two ...

Since I work in an office and know how it works I can tell you that the amount charged by the docs for services has WAY more to do with the insurance companies than with the docs trying to make money. Yes, the docs want to live well but let's face it....they worked hard to get where they are and a lot of them have heavy school loan debt. We have to have some sort of insurance reform but Obamacare is not the way to go. It's going to drive prices higher, starting next month. This isn't about doctors trying to fleece their patients.


~Amy

Neezar
09-28-2013, 02:56 PM
Since I work in an office and know how it works I can tell you that the amount charged by the docs for services has WAY more to do with the insurance companies than with the docs trying to make money. Yes, the docs want to live well but let's face it....they worked hard to get where they are and a lot of them have heavy school loan debt. We have to have some sort of insurance reform but Obamacare is not the way to go. It's going to drive prices higher, starting next month. This isn't about doctors trying to fleece their patients.


~Amy

Exactly. You have to be highly motivated to accomplish that. And when you take away the money factor then what will push the people to want to be doctors. Eventually, they will have to dumb down the program and lower the standards. Making it cheaper and easier to be a doctor will be the only way to entice people to want to do it.

Then the rich here can travel to another country for a good doctor the way that rich Canadians now travel here for the best care.

NateR
09-28-2013, 11:28 PM
Here's an interesting article about the student loan debt that most doctors end up with:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/the-hidden-costs-of-medical-student-debt/?_r=0

A key quote for those people thinking that doctors are only concerned about affording their second summer home:
For almost three generations, debt has been a nearly inescapable part of becoming a doctor. Over 80 percent of each medical student class will graduate in debt; and while that percentage has remained unchanged for 25 years, the increase in the total amount owed has leapfrogged over all other economic reality checks, like inflation and the consumer price index. According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, which has been trying to address the problem for nearly a decade, young doctors who graduated from medical school last year had an average debt of $158,000, or $2.3 billion for the group as a whole. Almost a third of students owed more than $200,000, a number that will only increase with the addition of interest over payback periods of 25 to 30 years.

So it takes them 25-30 years to pay back all of their student loan debt under the current system. If doctors are going to start getting reduced wages because of Obamacare, then they could be looking at being buried in student loan debt for their entire life. So, what's the incentive to becoming a doctor under this new plan? The medical profession would essentially become a new form of slavery.

rearnakedchoke
09-30-2013, 07:39 PM
Here's an interesting article about the student loan debt that most doctors end up with:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/the-hidden-costs-of-medical-student-debt/?_r=0

A key quote for those people thinking that doctors are only concerned about affording their second summer home:


So it takes them 25-30 years to pay back all of their student loan debt under the current system. If doctors are going to start getting reduced wages because of Obamacare, then they could be looking at being buried in student loan debt for their entire life. So, what's the incentive to becoming a doctor under this new plan? The medical profession would essentially become a new form of slavery.

doctors aren't the only people coming out of college with loans .. and like anything else, no one is forcing them to become doctors ... like i said, years of colluding to make the price of medical treatments high is the problem (as it was pointed out, this is also the problem of the insurance companies) ... people need insurance to drive, so they have to pay the price for whatever is out there .. people need medical treatment, same thing ...

NateR
09-30-2013, 10:17 PM
doctors aren't the only people coming out of college with loans .. and like anything else, no one is forcing them to become doctors ... like i said, years of colluding to make the price of medical treatments high is the problem (as it was pointed out, this is also the problem of the insurance companies) ... people need insurance to drive, so they have to pay the price for whatever is out there .. people need medical treatment, same thing ...

That's exactly my point. No one is forced to become a doctor. However, if a person can only look forward to a lifetime buried under crushing debt with no way out, then what is the incentive to become a doctor?

Yes, people need car insurance to drive in the US, however that's very different compared to what's being required of us here.

For one, I only need to buy enough car insurance to cover damage that I do to someone else's car. That's state minimum coverage. I am not required to buy insurance that covers damage to my car or my own body, in the case of an accident where I am at fault.

Secondly, I only need to purchase car insurance if I want to drive a car. If I decide to walk to work or ride a bike, then I never need to buy insurance.

Obamacare is essentially taxing people just for the privilege of being alive. The penalty for not purchasing health insurance was described as a tax by Obamacare's defenders, which means it's a tax. So the two laws are not even comparable.

The entire point of this law was to fix the problem of skyrocketing healthcare costs and the fact that most people can't afford health insurance. So their solution is to force those same people, who couldn't afford health insurance before, to buy health insurance at a significantly increased cost or face IRS fines and/or jail time? That's simply immoral and you would really have to be an idiot to defend it.

That's like telling a single-mother, who is struggling to keep food on the table, "Oh, we know that you are having trouble affording groceries with your salary, so what's we're going to do is double the price of food and then mandate exactly what food we decide you should be buying for your children. And if you don't buy the food we tell you to buy, at the increased price, then we're going to take your kids away and throw you in prison."

CAVEMAN1
10-03-2013, 03:09 PM
That's exactly my point. No one is forced to become a doctor. However, if a person can only look forward to a lifetime buried under crushing debt with no way out, then what is the incentive to become a doctor?

Yes, people need car insurance to drive in the US, however that's very different compared to what's being required of us here.

For one, I only need to buy enough car insurance to cover damage that I do to someone else's car. That's state minimum coverage. I am not required to buy insurance that covers damage to my car or my own body, in the case of an accident where I am at fault.

Secondly, I only need to purchase car insurance if I want to drive a car. If I decide to walk to work or ride a bike, then I never need to buy insurance.

Obamacare is essentially taxing people just for the privilege of being alive. The penalty for not purchasing health insurance was described as a tax by Obamacare's defenders, which means it's a tax. So the two laws are not even comparable.

The entire point of this law was to fix the problem of skyrocketing healthcare costs and the fact that most people can't afford health insurance. So their solution is to force those same people, who couldn't afford health insurance before, to buy health insurance at a significantly increased cost or face IRS fines and/or jail time? That's simply immoral and you would really have to be an idiot to defend it.

That's like telling a single-mother, who is struggling to keep food on the table, "Oh, we know that you are having trouble affording groceries with your salary, so what's we're going to do is double the price of food and then mandate exactly what food we decide you should be buying for your children. And if you don't buy the food we tell you to buy, at the increased price, then we're going to take your kids away and throw you in prison."

Bingo! And not only do we the taxpayers get to pay for other peoples insurance, but we have to try and afford ours. Another example of the government robbing Peter to pay Paul..........eventually, Peter is going to run out of money! Then what?

County Mike
10-03-2013, 03:24 PM
Check out the facebook page Healthcare.gov. TONS of people complaining about the website to sign up for Obamacare being full of errors.

Then, the people who finally do get through to sign up are finding out that the premiums are super high and deductibles are super high. The site won't offer estimates unless you sign in and give all your info first. Nothing but a giant scam.

rearnakedchoke
10-03-2013, 03:45 PM
That's exactly my point. No one is forced to become a doctor. However, if a person can only look forward to a lifetime buried under crushing debt with no way out, then what is the incentive to become a doctor?

Yes, people need car insurance to drive in the US, however that's very different compared to what's being required of us here.

For one, I only need to buy enough car insurance to cover damage that I do to someone else's car. That's state minimum coverage. I am not required to buy insurance that covers damage to my car or my own body, in the case of an accident where I am at fault.

Secondly, I only need to purchase car insurance if I want to drive a car. If I decide to walk to work or ride a bike, then I never need to buy insurance.

Obamacare is essentially taxing people just for the privilege of being alive. The penalty for not purchasing health insurance was described as a tax by Obamacare's defenders, which means it's a tax. So the two laws are not even comparable.

The entire point of this law was to fix the problem of skyrocketing healthcare costs and the fact that most people can't afford health insurance. So their solution is to force those same people, who couldn't afford health insurance before, to buy health insurance at a significantly increased cost or face IRS fines and/or jail time? That's simply immoral and you would really have to be an idiot to defend it.

That's like telling a single-mother, who is struggling to keep food on the table, "Oh, we know that you are having trouble affording groceries with your salary, so what's we're going to do is double the price of food and then mandate exactly what food we decide you should be buying for your children. And if you don't buy the food we tell you to buy, at the increased price, then we're going to take your kids away and throw you in prison."

the thing is, is that a very small percentage of the country (you can take any country for that matter) is going to go their whole life never needing medical care .. so most people will need to go ... relying on your employer for insurance is not good enough ... imo, not only is the ACA to make healthcare more affordable for all americans, but it is also going to make Americans healthier, and arguably make the US stronger! ... if you don't have coverage, you will put things off, but with insurance, you will get things checked out, make sure you are healthy ... this will in turn make the population healthier and will probably make people less reliant on other programs ... if you look at a list of countries with the best universal healthcare in the world, and a list with the healthiest countries, i am sure you will find a good chunk in the top 10 of each list are common ...

obama is looking long term at the health of all americans ... in the long run, this will be a benefit to the US

rearnakedchoke
10-03-2013, 03:46 PM
Check out the facebook page Healthcare.gov. TONS of people complaining about the website to sign up for Obamacare being full of errors.

Then, the people who finally do get through to sign up are finding out that the premiums are super high and deductibles are super high. The site won't offer estimates unless you sign in and give all your info first. Nothing but a giant scam.

its a new system ..... gonna have some glitches and some growing pains ....

VCURamFan
10-03-2013, 03:47 PM
Here's something "fun":

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/10/quite_a_coincidence.html#.Uk10l5gSgeU.facebookGues s what the new Obamacare 1-800 National Hotline spells out? Weasel Zippers (http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/02/obamacare-national-hotline-1-800-fck-you/) first figured out what 1-800-318-2596 spells.

That is, 1-800-3(F) 8(U) 2(C) 5(K) 9(Y) 6(O)

Here is the clueless Kathleen Sebelius giving out the number.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gx_nu5WDYR8

rearnakedchoke
10-03-2013, 03:48 PM
Here's something "fun":




LOL

County Mike
10-03-2013, 04:59 PM
its a new system ..... gonna have some glitches and some growing pains ....
Sure, the system itself but people are complaining about the high cost of the "affordable" health care plan. Problem is, they don't get to know how much it will cost until after they've begun the signup procedure and already entered their info.

Here's something "fun":

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/10/quite_a_coincidence.html#.Uk10l5gSgeU.facebook



Funny, except they didn't account for the 1 (which has no letters, so maybe that's why.)

NateR
10-04-2013, 12:11 AM
if you look at a list of countries with the best universal healthcare in the world, and a list with the healthiest countries, i am sure you will find a good chunk in the top 10 of each list are common ...

I'm about 200% positive that you just made that up. Unless you can post some hard data from multiple, reliable sources, I'm going to have to call BS on your entire post.

As for the remark that Obamacare is going to make Americans stronger... :rolleyes: .... I'm just amazed at the lengths you are willing to go to try to rationalize everything Obama does. Especially since you have nothing at stake in this debate. You're a Canadian, why are you so personally invested in an American President?

Your freedoms aren't be eroded, your economy is not being decimated, Obama is not trying to take money out of your pocket to fund programs you find immoral. To you, Obama is just some celebrity that you have a 'boy crush' on, so you have absolutely zero credibility in this debate.

flo
10-04-2013, 06:08 AM
obama is looking long term at the health of all americans

Bull. He's only interested in his so-called "legacy".

He will get his legacy. It will be as the worst president in history.

rearnakedchoke
10-04-2013, 01:58 PM
I'm about 200% positive that you just made that up. Unless you can post some hard data from multiple, reliable sources, I'm going to have to call BS on your entire post.

As for the remark that Obamacare is going to make Americans stronger... :rolleyes: .... I'm just amazed at the lengths you are willing to go to try to rationalize everything Obama does. Especially since you have nothing at stake in this debate. You're a Canadian, why are you so personally invested in an American President?

Your freedoms aren't be eroded, your economy is not being decimated, Obama is not trying to take money out of your pocket to fund programs you find immoral. To you, Obama is just some celebrity that you have a 'boy crush' on, so you have absolutely zero credibility in this debate.

i didn't know you had to have a stake in something to be able to debate .... i am more of a unbiased bystander ... do i think everything obama has done has been a good decision? nope ... do i think the ACA could be improved? sure, just like anything ... but i don't think he is doing it to purposely to bring the US down ... i don't think he is trying to destroy america, i think he genuinely feels the ACA is a needed step in the evolution of the USA ..

VCURamFan
10-04-2013, 02:18 PM
Not much to add, just this:

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/601613_10153300696355338_1906956594_n.jpg

NateR
10-04-2013, 09:19 PM
Yeah, the media spin doctors are working overtime to blame all of this on the Republicans. Unfortunately, people are buying it. I'm not saying that Republicans are blameless, but the Democrats and Obama himself deserve an equal, if not greater, amount of the blame for this mess.

Bonnie
10-07-2013, 10:22 AM
Yeah, the media spin doctors are working overtime to blame all of this on the Republicans. Unfortunately, people are buying it. I'm not saying that Republicans are blameless, but the Democrats and Obama himself deserve an equal, if not greater, amount of the blame for this mess.

I totally agree, Nate. You're right, Republicans aren't blameless, but by no means should they get all the blame. Congress just had a five week break, and the President has been vacationing and "campaigning" everywhere these last several months, they all knew this was coming up, as well as the debt ceiling, but none of them thought it was important enough to put off their breaks and vacations and stay in Washington to work things out. It's all political one upmanship. The President and Harry Reid and the Dems are happy for this shut-down to go on as long as possible, they are deliberately causing as much disruption as possible so people will blame Republicans. One of Obama's high ranking WH people admitted as much to the Washington Post, saying, "We're winning!" It's all about Obama getting his way and winning at any cost and screw everybody else.

The other day they were showing where people were being asked which they preferred, "Obamacare" or the "Affordable Care Act"? Every one of them with the exception of one said, the Affordable Care Act because it was more affordable; the last guy, who was Black, said he preferred Obamacare. None of them knew that Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act are one and the same. Now we know how Obama gets away with all the lies he tells and how he got elected twice!

County Mike
10-07-2013, 02:03 PM
Now we know how Obama gets away with all the lies he tells and how he got elected twice!

Obama is our president because America is full of idiots. Green Day was right.

rearnakedchoke
10-07-2013, 02:27 PM
I'm about 200% positive that you just made that up. Unless you can post some hard data from multiple, reliable sources, I'm going to have to call BS on your entire post.
As for the remark that Obamacare is going to make Americans stronger... :rolleyes: .... I'm just amazed at the lengths you are willing to go to try to rationalize everything Obama does. Especially since you have nothing at stake in this debate. You're a Canadian, why are you so personally invested in an American President?

Your freedoms aren't be eroded, your economy is not being decimated, Obama is not trying to take money out of your pocket to fund programs you find immoral. To you, Obama is just some celebrity that you have a 'boy crush' on, so you have absolutely zero credibility in this debate.

http://images.businessweek.com/bloomberg/pdfs/WORLDS_HEALTHIEST_COUNTRIES.pdf

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1


let me guess ... these sources are not reliable enough ... look at the evidence ... the US has the best technology in the world when it comes to healthcare.. what good is it if only the rich can afford it ...

County Mike
10-07-2013, 05:05 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/bloomberg/pdfs/WORLDS_HEALTHIEST_COUNTRIES.pdf

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1


let me guess ... these sources are not reliable enough ... look at the evidence ... the US has the best technology in the world when it comes to healthcare.. what good is it if only the rich can afford it ...

The problem is, people are finding out that Obama's healthcare plan is NOT affordable. If you're on facebook, go to HealthCare.org's page and read the comments. A family of four, making less than $40,000 per year has to pay $800/month for their "affordable" coverage. It's a giant SCAM. It's not National Health Care the way most countries have it. It's not something that is paid for by our taxes. It's just a BS bill forcing people to buy something whether they want it or not and the prices are outrageous.

Play The Man
10-07-2013, 06:51 PM
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24248486/obamacares-winners-and-losers-bay-area

Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama.

Yet, like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance, they were floored last week when they opened their bills: Their policies were being replaced with pricier plans that conform to all the requirements of the new health care law.

Vinson, of San Jose, will pay $1,800 more a year for an individual policy, while Waschura, of Portola Valley, will cough up almost $10,000 more for insurance for his family of four.

"I was laughing at Boehner -- until the mail came today,"
Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.
"I really don't like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family's pocket each year, that's otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy."

Both Vinson and Waschura have adjusted gross incomes greater than four times the federal poverty level -- the cutoff for a tax credit. And while both said they anticipated their rates would go up, they didn't realize they would rise so much.

"Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

Play The Man
10-07-2013, 06:56 PM
Across North Carolina, thousands of people have been shocked in recent weeks to find out their health insurance plans will be canceled at the end of the year – and premiums for comparable coverage could increase sharply.

One of them is George Schwab of Charlotte, who pays $228 a month for his family’s $10,000 deductible plan from Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina.

In a Sept. 23 letter, Blue Cross notified him that his current plan doesn’t meet benefit requirements outlined in the Affordable Care Act and suggested a comparable plan for $1,208 a month – $980 more than he now pays.

“I’m 62 and retired,” Schwab said. “This creates a tremendous financial burden for our family.

“The President told the American people numerous times that… ‘If you like your coverage, you can keep it,’” Schwab said. “How can we keep it if it has been eliminated? How can we keep it if the premium has been increased 430 percent in one year?”

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/06/4365331/insurance-premium-increases-shock.html#.UlF-CiRwqSo#storylink=cpy

:angry:

Bonnie
10-07-2013, 11:21 PM
Obama is our president because America is full of idiots. Green Day was right.

I thought that's what I said. :laugh:

NateR
10-08-2013, 02:01 AM
http://images.businessweek.com/bloomberg/pdfs/WORLDS_HEALTHIEST_COUNTRIES.pdf

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1


let me guess ... these sources are not reliable enough ... look at the evidence ... the US has the best technology in the world when it comes to healthcare.. what good is it if only the rich can afford it ...

Well, the first link just goes to a table of "The World's Healthiest Countries" according to Bloomberg, but the criteria used to determine their results have more to do with lifestyle choices (smoking, obesity, activity level, etc.) and average income, not availability or quality of healthcare.

For the second link, I'm not sure if you actually read the article itself, but the results of those studies are very much in question.

If you click on the link in article you posted, then you will see a detailed explanation of why the results of the World Health Report 2000 ranking are based on outdated and incomplete data. But just in case you didn't see it (or didn't even bother to read your own "evidence"), here is the link that questions the validity of the WHO study:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html

If you read the article, you will see that even WHO representatives would not consider their own ranking to be current.

I understand that you made up your earlier comments and then had to scramble to find anything at all to support your claim, so as to not appear to be talking out of the side of your neck; but you need to be a little more thorough and it helps if you actually read the articles that you post as "evidence". :wink:

rearnakedchoke
10-08-2013, 03:44 PM
like i said, the sources aren't reliable right ... sure, whatver you say ... in the end, your country is working on a new health care system, and in the end, should make for a healthier country ... in fact, the system in the US will probably end up being better than most ... civilians having to pay for their health insurance will kinda force them into a healthier lifestyle .. insurance companies will charge lower premiums to those leading a healthier lifestyle, just like they do for drivers who are better drivers ...

TexasRN
10-09-2013, 02:00 PM
:angry:


This exact thing happened to my husband. I'm adding him to my healthcare plan this month so he'll have coveraage but he is young, healthy, and had savings just for medical expenses should they occur. No need for him to have some extensive health care plan. We wanted some coverage in place for catastrophic events only. Then BCBS of NC sent him the same letter. It'll be cheaper for hubby to go on my insurance and then we'll add the twins when they are born. My employer based insurance is extremely good but pricey. It's crazy that it'll be cheaper to buy better insurance that was already offered by my employer when Obamacare said the exact opposite would happen.


~Amy

VCURamFan
10-09-2013, 04:03 PM
This exact thing happened to my husband. I'm adding him to my healthcare plan this month so he'll have coveraage but he is young, healthy, and had savings just for medical expenses should they occur. No need for him to have some extensive health care plan. We wanted some coverage in place for catastrophic events only. Then BCBS of NC sent him the same letter. It'll be cheaper for hubby to go on my insurance and then we'll add the twins when they are born. My employer based insurance is extremely good but pricey. It's crazy that it'll be cheaper to buy better insurance that was already offered by my employer when Obamacare said the exact opposite would happen.


~Amy
Markel just sent out a notification to us about this: To ensure compliance with The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Health Care Reform”), Markel is required to provide all employees with the attached notice of coverage options available through the Health Insurance Marketplace (the “Marketplace,” also referred to as the “Exchange”). The purpose of the notice is to inform employees of the existence of the Marketplace, describe the services of the Marketplace and provide contact information about the Marketplace.


Since Markel offers full-time employees with an employer-sponsored plan that meets both the minimum value and affordability guidelines of Health Care Reform, Markel employees are not eligible to receive a premium tax credit through the Marketplace.
I wanted to make sure I understood it right, so e-mailed my dad (who also works here at Markel): So this basically means that we don’t have to switch over, right?
His response: From Markel’s perspective it means that

Markel has done their legally required duty in notifying you that there is such a thing as an Exchange where you could buy your insurance and possibly save money there.

They’ve done their legally required duty in notifying you that the plans they do/will offer will qualify with the new laws, and what is the cost of the lowest priced option is among those plans (employee only), so you could compare that to whatever the Exchange has to offer.

And they’ve done their legally required duty in notifying you that, because the plans they offer meet the requirements, you would not qualify for a tax credit if you buy your insurance through the Exchange.

And yes, from our perspective it means that we don’t have to change, and likely we’d be crazy to buy our insurance from the government. (That would be interesting … would government health insurance pay for your treatment if you were declared legally insane for buying health insurance from the government … ?)

:happy0198: Have I mentioned I love my dad? :happy0198:

NateR
10-09-2013, 10:54 PM
like i said, the sources aren't reliable right ... sure, whatver you say ...

I didn't say that the first link you provided wasn't reliable, I just pointed out that it wasn't really relevant to the point you were trying to make.

As for the second one, it's an article about a 13-year-old study done by the World Health Organization that the WHO itself doesn't even stand behind. So, why should you or I take any of it as fact?

It's pretty clear that you simply got caught talking out of your ass and had to scramble to find something to support your comment. So you found a couple of links that looked promising and, instead of actually studying the information they gave to see if they really did support your point, you posted them and your plan was to try to make me appear unreasonable and closed-minded because I would rather critically examine the information, instead of taking it at face value.

It seems that you never learned how to debate outside of the internet, because your reasoning skills haven't really matured beyond grade-school level thinking.

rearnakedchoke
10-10-2013, 02:54 PM
I didn't say that the first link you provided wasn't reliable, I just pointed out that it wasn't really relevant to the point you were trying to make.

As for the second one, it's an article about a 13-year-old study done by the World Health Organization that the WHO itself doesn't even stand behind. So, why should you or I take any of it as fact?

It's pretty clear that you simply got caught talking out of your ass and had to scramble to find something to support your comment. So you found a couple of links that looked promising and, instead of actually studying the information they gave to see if they really did support your point, you posted them and your plan was to try to make me appear unreasonable and closed-minded because I would rather critically examine the information, instead of taking it at face value.

It seems that you never learned how to debate outside of the internet, because your reasoning skills haven't really matured beyond grade-school level thinking.

LOL

i stand behind my statement that i made ... look at a list of the healthiest countries in the world and there is a correlation on what type of system they have in place with regards to healthcare ... call it what you want, talking out of my ass or whatever ... if the current system in the US was working, they would be near the top of the list .. i am not saying that ACA is the perfect solution, but a solution is needed ... i think now that people are accountable for their health with regards to paying for insurance, most of them will start to take better care to keep premiums low .. it will take time, because people have bad habits ... but it will happen .. and i think the system will also improve over time ... and in time, it will perhaps be a better than most system .. but we won't know until its been in place for a while ... but until then, i guess i am just talking out my ass!

Neezar
10-10-2013, 09:11 PM
This is a disaster.

Neezar
10-10-2013, 09:11 PM
Markel just sent out a notification to us about this:
To ensure compliance with The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Health Care Reform”), Markel is required to provide all employees with the attached notice of coverage options available through the Health Insurance Marketplace (the “Marketplace,” also referred to as the “Exchange”). The purpose of the notice is to inform employees of the existence of the Marketplace, describe the services of the Marketplace and provide contact information about the Marketplace.


Since Markel offers full-time employees with an employer-sponsored plan that meets both the minimum value and affordability guidelines of Health Care Reform, Markel employees are not eligible to receive a premium tax credit through the Marketplace.

I wanted to make sure I understood it right, so e-mailed my dad (who also works here at Markel):
So this basically means that we don’t have to switch over, right?

His response:
From Markel’s perspective it means that
Markel has done their legally required duty in notifying you that there is such a thing as an Exchange where you could buy your insurance and possibly save money there.

They’ve done their legally required duty in notifying you that the plans they do/will offer will qualify with the new laws, and what is the cost of the lowest priced option is among those plans (employee only), so you could compare that to whatever the Exchange has to offer.

And they’ve done their legally required duty in notifying you that, because the plans they offer meet the requirements, you would not qualify for a tax credit if you buy your insurance through the Exchange.
And yes, from our perspective it means that we don’t have to change, and likely we’d be crazy to buy our insurance from the government. (That would be interesting … would government health insurance pay for your treatment if you were declared legally insane for buying health insurance from the government … ?)


:happy0198: Have I mentioned I love my dad? :happy0198:

I think I love him, too. :laugh:

NateR
10-11-2013, 03:13 AM
... but until then, i guess i am just talking out my ass!

Well, for now, we can both agree on that. :tongue0011:

Bonnie
10-11-2013, 04:22 AM
This is a disaster.

Should we notify FEMA? :Whistle:

:laugh:

flo
10-13-2013, 02:28 AM
I think I love him, too. :laugh:

Thirded!

:happydancing:

Bonnie
10-24-2013, 03:10 AM
Now that the Prez got his clear continuing resolution and extension on the debt ceiling, looks like some Dems up for re-election are now willing to vote to delay the mandate and penalty so Obamacare can be "tweeked". :rolleyes:

The bad thing is, all those people, maybe as many as 16 million, whose insurance companies have dropped them, or are dropping them, because of Obamacare, they would have insurance up to Dec. 31, but on January 1, they would be uninsured if there is nothing there to cover them. What was the purpose of Obamacare? :Whistle:

Now he's wanting to move on to immigration. We know what that means, amnesty for votes. :angry:

Chuck
10-25-2013, 03:16 AM
BCBS dropped 300,000 people in Florida this week. Remember the part about not losing your insurance?

Oh and WalMart where my wife works no longer covers spouses. Like Home Depot and so many other companies. Unreal.

flo
10-25-2013, 03:31 AM
BCBS dropped 300,000 people in Florida this week. Remember the part about not losing your insurance?

Oh and WalMart where my wife works no longer covers spouses. Like Home Depot and so many other companies. Unreal.
Well, he *said* he was going to fundamentally transform the United States (all 57 of them!) We just never DREAMED that this was what he meant. :angry:

Bonnie
10-29-2013, 08:41 AM
BCBS dropped 300,000 people in Florida this week. Remember the part about not losing your insurance?

Oh and WalMart where my wife works no longer covers spouses. Like Home Depot and so many other companies. Unreal.

The White House KNEW in 2010 that millions of people would be losing their current health plans due to the requirements of Obamacare and now the proof has been uncovered! There is no doubt that President Obama lied repeatedly to the American people about being able to keep their own health plan if they were happy with it.

Here are two articles about it. I agree with Marc Thiessen (first article) who believes it was an "intended" consequence that people would lose their health plans so that they would be forced into the Obamacare exchanges. It makes sense when you read the 2nd article that describes the grandfathered clause that was supposed to allow people to keep their own health plans, that is until HHS wrote regulations they knew would nullify the clause causing millions to lose their health plans and be forced into Obamacare.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/29/white-house-knew-as-early-as-2010-millions-would-lose-health-plans-under/

White House knew as early as 2010 millions would lose health plans under ObamaCare

Published October 29, 2013

Conservative commentator Marc Thiessen accused President Obama of a “bold-faced lie” Monday after Fox News confirmed the White House knew as early as 2010 that over 10 million people would lose their current doctor under ObamaCare.

Megyn Kelly reported Monday on “The Kelly File” that an IRS regulation pushed by the Department of Health and Human Services in 2010 estimated that millions would be unable to keep their health insurance plan under the Affordable Care Act.

Thiessen told Kelly he believes the Obama administration intended for people to lose their current health insurance, despite Obama’s repeated claims that “if you like your plan, you can keep it.”

“The smoking gun is there in your hand," he said, referring to Kelly’s copy of the IRS form. "Look, they knew."

He claimed the administration needs these Americans to move into the ObamaCare exchanges to subsidize the law for those who cannot afford health insurance.

However, Thiessen said the White House did not prepare for the issues with the law’s website, which are creating a situation where not only will Americans get dumped from their health insurance plan, they will be unable to buy a new one.

“What the unanticipated consequence of this they’re pushing all these millions of people out of the health care that they liked into ObamaCare, except the people can’t get into ObamaCare,” he said.


http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/10/28/obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance

Obama Admin. Knew Millions Could Not Keep Their Health Insurance

By: NBC News Investigators

President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”

None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

“This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn’t keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn’t make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.

The White House does not dispute that many in the individual market will lose their current coverage, but argues they will be offered better coverage in its place, and that many will get tax subsidies that would offset any increased costs. “One of the main goals of the law is to ensure that people have insurance they can rely on – that doesn’t discriminate or charge more based on pre-existing conditions. The consumers who are getting notices are in plans that do not provide all these protections – but in the vast majority of cases, those same insurers will automatically shift their enrollees to a plan that provides new consumer protections and, for nearly half of individual market enrollees, discounts through premium tax credits,” said White House spokesperson Jessica Santillo.

County Mike
10-29-2013, 11:46 AM
and the crap keeps rolling downhill onto the people.

The Worst President Ever keeps getting even worse.

Bonnie
11-15-2013, 09:19 PM
I think karma might be finally catching up with this President.

NateR
11-16-2013, 04:17 AM
It's all starting to fall apart for the President:

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-meet-insurers-friday-obamacare-fix-152740210--sector.html

House passes Republican health bill with 39 Democratic votes

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In the most significant legislative rebuke to President Barack Obama's healthcare overhaul, 39 members of his Democratic Party voted for a Republican bill in the House of Representatives on Friday aimed at undermining his signature domestic policy.

If anyone wants to sign a petition to delay the individual mandate, then click this link:
http://aclj.org/obamacare/delay-mandate-face-litigation

flo
11-16-2013, 05:56 AM
and the crap keeps rolling downhill onto the people.

The Worst President Ever keeps getting even worse.

Yup. That's it in a nutshell.

TexasRN
11-16-2013, 11:10 AM
What's really bad is that my local news outlets are reporting that changing the plans to make this happen will drive costs up even higher. No matter what happens, Americans get screwed again.


~Amy

Neezar
11-16-2013, 01:35 PM
Our insurance premiums went up. A lot. And our deductibles went up. Our major medical deductible is now.....

$12,000.00


:scared0015:


wth

NateR
11-16-2013, 03:30 PM
Our insurance premiums went up. A lot. And our deductibles went up. Our major medical deductible is now.....

$12,000.00


:scared0015:


wth

With a deductible that high, there's almost no point in even having insurance.

Bonnie
11-16-2013, 06:33 PM
It's all starting to fall apart for the President:

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-meet-insurers-friday-obamacare-fix-152740210--sector.html


What's really bad is that my local news outlets are reporting that changing the plans to make this happen will drive costs up even higher. No matter what happens, Americans get screwed again.

~Amy

I don't think the Upton bill is going anywhere; Harry Reid won't allow it to be voted on once it gets to the Senate so it's basically DOA.

As to the President coming out Thursday with his "fix", that was all political to try to hold down the number of Dems who were thinking about voting, "Yes", to the Upton bill the next day. Also, now he'll be able to go out (and I'm sure he'll do this!) and blame the big bad insurance industry if people fail to get their insurance plans back. He doesn't really care if people get their plans back because he wants them forced into these exchanges, he just wants to look like he cares. He's the master of illusion..."Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

I really think the only way Obamacare will die or be defeated is if it ultimately gets unfunded by young people refusing to pay for it, or by Americans using their vote in 2014 and 2016.

Bonnie
11-16-2013, 08:00 PM
Our insurance premiums went up. A lot. And our deductibles went up. Our major medical deductible is now.....

$12,000.00

:scared0015:

wth

With a deductible that high, there's almost no point in even having insurance.

It's like one ginormous Ponzi scheme, the only difference is the investors, us, are being FORCED to participate whether we want to or not. :angry:

MattHughesRocks
11-23-2013, 04:17 AM
I haven't really read this thread ( I think) and I haven't posted in here before
(I think) but just stumbled upon it (I think) and had to post BECAUSE..........drum roll please...........I had to pay more to keep my doctor because he wasn't on the plan I have had for the past few years ( because "they" changed it). He was on the more expensive plan, something like twice the price, but I didn't want the HASSLE of starting new so I bought in.
So I do my thing before the dead line...weeks go by and I get a letter in the mail " sorry, your doctor isn't in this new plan you just picked anymore and are paying more for but we are in negotiations so just keep your fingers crossed and we can get him back" blah blah blah...WTF?

I'm pissed!!!

TexasRN
11-23-2013, 01:26 PM
I think I read recently that a lot of docs are opting out of the ACA plans because their reimbursement is only about 60% of what they get from medicare, which is already lower than the usual reimbursement.

So what happens is that insurance companies negotiate with doctors the cost of everything from bandaids to chemo. Each insurance company gets their own deal and some insurance companies pay better than others. These companies can even say they won't pay for one medication but will pay for another so the docs have to prescribe what the insurance company wants based on what pharmaceutical company they have a negotiated contract with. The medication may not be the most effective or the cheapest out there but it's what the insurance company will let you have. I have a real problem with the insurance companies having that much control over our health care. That's where I want health care reform to concentrate, not on forcing people to buy sucky insurance plans. There is so much corruption with the insurance companies and NO ONE seems to be looking at that. Everyone wants to blame doctors for expensive health care costs but really, it's the insurance companies and other issues like it that drive the costs up.


~Amy

MattHughesRocks
11-23-2013, 02:46 PM
:angry::sad::angry::cry::angry:

This blows!