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VCURamFan
07-14-2013, 03:49 AM
I know nothing about this trial. What are y'all's reactions to this?

MattHughesRocks
07-14-2013, 04:12 AM
I didn't watch much but I am a little surprised about the verdict yet not surprised because I think it ended up a race thing and that's sad.
I see my white friends agreeing and my black friends disagreeing yet all say it wasn't based on race. I guess all my friends are racist :sad:

flo
07-14-2013, 05:29 AM
If you look at the law and the prosecution's case, this was the just verdict. Kudos to the jury for not being intimidated by the "protestors" at the courthouse.

This incident was willfully misrepresented by the media, the Florida Republicans brought the case for political purposes and the politicians in DC made it racially divisive by their behavior and comments (Obama, Bobby Rush, Federica Wilson, etc.).

This event was a tragedy for the Martin family and the Zimmerman family. The race-baiters got their arrest, trial and verdict. Time for them to accept it and move on.

Play The Man
07-14-2013, 06:23 AM
If you look at the law and the prosecution's case, this was the just verdict. Kudos to the jury for not being intimidated by the "protestors" at the courthouse.

This incident was willfully misrepresented by the media, the Florida Republicans brought the case for political purposes and the politicians in DC made it racially divisive by their behavior and comments (Obama, Bobby Rush, Federica Wilson, etc.).

This event was a tragedy for the Martin family and the Zimmerman family. The race-baiters got their arrest, trial and verdict. Time for them to accept it and move on.

I agree. I followed the case closely. The prosecutions case was pathetically weak. The defense "flipped" many of the witnesses to make statements supportive of Zimmerman's story.

flo
07-14-2013, 06:39 AM
I agree. I followed the case closely. The prosecutions case was pathetically weak. The defense "flipped" many of the witnesses to make statements supportive of Zimmerman's story.

Plus it was just recently revealed that the prosecution withheld information (pictures, in this case) from the defense; a whistle-blower from Corey's office was concerned and finally got them to the defense a few weeks ago (too late for them to use in the trial). Zimmerman's attorneys wanted sanctions against the prosecution for abusing discovery but the Judge said she'd consider after the conclusion of the trial.

Oh, and the whistleblower? Corey fired him yesterday.

That's just one example of a corrupt and biased FL State's Attorney's Office.
Link here. (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-07-13/story/state-attorney-angela-corey-fires-information-technology-director-who)

rearnakedchoke
07-14-2013, 12:40 PM
imo the jurors did a good job ... I think if the prosecution focused on manslaughter and not murder 2, George would be sitting in prison right now ... they tried to get the big charge and didn't focus on manslaughter at all .. justice served?? maybe ... but it still leaves a lot of questions out there ...

NateR
07-14-2013, 10:16 PM
I'm just glad that the trial is over with, now the news networks can actually get back to reporting on important stuff. We've still never gotten to the bottom of the Benghazi attack, or the IRS abuse scandal, or the fact that Obama is sending American taxpayer dollars to support Muslim terrorist groups in Egypt. Also, Obamacare seems to be completely imploding, so we need to get back to work on repealing that nonsensical law.

However, listening to the news commentators during the Zimmerman trial, you start to wonder if all news organizations just assume that African-Americans are like untamed animals. Everybody seemed to be worried that there would be massive riots across the country if Zimmerman was found not guilty, as if blacks are ignorant children that need to be placated at every opportunity. I think most African-Americans should be insulted by the way our media has handled this entire case.

County Mike
07-15-2013, 03:24 PM
Not Guilty was the correct verdict. Whether you agree with him getting out of his car and following Trayvon or not, it wasn't against the law. The only time a law was broken in the entire scenario was when Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and beat him up.

You can accuse George Zimmerman of bad judgement but not of breaking any laws. He only used his gun when he felt his life was in danger, and rightfully so.

rearnakedchoke
07-15-2013, 03:58 PM
Not Guilty was the correct verdict. Whether you agree with him getting out of his car and following Trayvon or not, it wasn't against the law. The only time a law was broken in the entire scenario was when Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and beat him up.

You can accuse George Zimmerman of bad judgement but not of breaking any laws. He only used his gun when he felt his life was in danger, and rightfully so.

i agree that the verdict was the correct one, but imo it gives precidence now for people to do what GZ did ... all you have to do is leave as litttle evidence as possible and make sure you kill the other person ... then it becomes easy to follow the evidence ..

it goes to the case of raul rodriguez ... imo, its very similar, except he was video taping the whole thing .. and then he got 30-40 years in prison

i think zimmerman knew he could do this, get away with it .. i think being charged actually was a surprise to him ... i think the prosecution were made up of terrible lawyers who tried to get the big charge instead of going to reasonable chargers .. in the end, the jury had no choice but to acquit

NateR
07-15-2013, 04:28 PM
i think zimmerman knew he could do this, get away with it .. i think being charged actually was a surprise to him ...

I don't think that's the right way to phrase it, because you're making it sound like Zimmerman went into the situation with the intent of committing a crime.

A better way to state it would be to say that Zimmerman knew he didn't to anything wrong, but was surprised to actually be charged with a crime for defending himself.

Anytime, someone is in the process of committing a crime and they get killed while the victim is trying to stop that crime, then it should never be considered anything more than manslaughter. Murder was always the wrong charge to file.

County Mike
07-15-2013, 06:23 PM
i think the prosecution were made up of terrible lawyers who tried to get the big charge instead of going to reasonable chargers .. in the end, the jury had no choice but to acquit

Manslaughter was an option given to the jury. I thought the prosecution lawyers did a good job with what they had. The problem is, it's hard to convict an innocent man. They definitely tried, but all the evidence backed up Zimmerman's story. As for giving someone else the option to start trouble and then finish it with a gun, that would be incredibly risky. All you need is one witness to say the shooter started the fight. In this case, nobody could say that and the evidence pointed to Trayvon being the instigator of the fight.

rearnakedchoke
07-15-2013, 09:17 PM
I don't think that's the right way to phrase it, because you're making it sound like Zimmerman went into the situation with the intent of committing a crime.

A better way to state it would be to say that Zimmerman knew he didn't to anything wrong, but was surprised to actually be charged with a crime for defending himself.

Anytime, someone is in the process of committing a crime and they get killed while the victim is trying to stop that crime, then it should never be considered anything more than manslaughter. Murder was always the wrong charge to file.

I wouldn't let Zimmerman off that easy ... he had seen this before and was mad and didn't want this person to get away .. that is why he followed him .... he said to the dispatcher that these guys always get away with this stuff ... when the dispatcher asked him if he was still following trayvon, he said yes, and was told he didn t have to do that ... so imo, he seemed like he was out to pick this fight, because he knew he had a gun ...

rearnakedchoke
07-15-2013, 09:21 PM
Manslaughter was an option given to the jury. I thought the prosecution lawyers did a good job with what they had. The problem is, it's hard to convict an innocent man. They definitely tried, but all the evidence backed up Zimmerman's story. As for giving someone else the option to start trouble and then finish it with a gun, that would be incredibly risky. All you need is one witness to say the shooter started the fight. In this case, nobody could say that and the evidence pointed to Trayvon being the instigator of the fight.

I think manslaughter was a good option to go for, but I don't think the prosecution wanted that, they wanted murder and they were never going to get that imo ... I think if they had the ms charge with an option for criminal negligence etc, they probably woulda have gotten Zimmerman on something like that .. I think the jury believed he should have gotten something, but when presented poorly with murder, ms and nothing, the only reasonable option was acquittal ...

Chuck
07-15-2013, 09:23 PM
If you look at the law and the prosecution's case, this was the just verdict. Kudos to the jury for not being intimidated by the "protestors" at the courthouse.

This incident was willfully misrepresented by the media, the Florida Republicans brought the case for political purposes and the politicians in DC made it racially divisive by their behavior and comments (Obama, Bobby Rush, Federica Wilson, etc.).

This event was a tragedy for the Martin family and the Zimmerman family. The race-baiters got their arrest, trial and verdict. Time for them to accept it and move on.

The Florida Republicans (I is one!) did what??? :scared0015:

Bonnie
07-16-2013, 08:16 AM
Plus it was just recently revealed that the prosecution withheld information (pictures, in this case) from the defense; a whistle-blower from Corey's office was concerned and finally got them to the defense a few weeks ago (too late for them to use in the trial). Zimmerman's attorneys wanted sanctions against the prosecution for abusing discovery but the Judge said she'd consider after the conclusion of the trial.

Oh, and the whistleblower? Corey fired him yesterday.

That's just one example of a corrupt and biased FL State's Attorney's Office.
Link here. (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-07-13/story/state-attorney-angela-corey-fires-information-technology-director-who)

Angela Corey should be the one Eric Holder and the Justice Dept. should be investigating for violating George Zimmerman's civil rights. She's been indicted now for falsifying the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to Zimmerman being charged with 2nd degree murder. Hopefully she'll be disbarred and spend some time in jail for what she's done.

Also, NBC is in big trouble for editing that 911 call to make it sound like George Zimmerman was a racist who shot and killed a black child. The media has played their part in all the race baiting that has been going on from the very beginning.

Now you've got the race baiters wanting to make this a federal civil rights case even going so far as to compare this case to cases like Emmett Till and James Byrd Jr. They have no shame.

Not Guilty was the correct verdict. Whether you agree with him getting out of his car and following Trayvon or not, it wasn't against the law. The only time a law was broken in the entire scenario was when Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and beat him up.

You can accuse George Zimmerman of bad judgement but not of breaking any laws. He only used his gun when he felt his life was in danger, and rightfully so.

Apparently a lot of people don't understand what the law is, they think he broke the law when he got out of his car, but he didn't. Both of them can be accused of bad judgement that night--if only George Zimmerman had stayed in his car and waited for police; likewise, if only Trayvon Martin had just gone on to his dad's gf's house instead of making the decisions he did.

I applaud the jurors for following the law and not letting emotion guide their verdict.

flo
07-16-2013, 10:57 PM
The Florida Republicans (I is one!) did what??? :scared0015:

I know how you feel, Chuck, I'm also a Republican. I'll quote a friend of mine who put it best:

This Florida v Zimmerman trial would not exist without intervention by Florida Republicans: Governor Scott(R), Attorney General Bondi (R), and Special Prosecutor Corey (R).

Chuck
07-17-2013, 02:12 AM
I know how you feel, Chuck, I'm also a Republican. I'll quote a friend of mine who put it best:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that explains it... Rick Scott isn't a Republican. I mean he may have an R after his name but TRUST me, he's no Republican. ;)

flo
07-17-2013, 06:45 AM
Like Charlie Crist, eh Chuck? Even though it's off-topic, I'd like to know your thoughts about Marco Rubio now that he's part of the "Gang of 8" with this immigration bill.

Anyway, here is a very short but interesting article from a FL atty. about the trial.

The Embarrassment of the George Zimmerman Verdict (http://criminaldefenseblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-embarrassment-of-george-zimmerman.html)

rearnakedchoke
07-17-2013, 03:09 PM
I know how you feel, Chuck, I'm also a Republican. I'll quote a friend of mine who put it best:

i am lost .. sorry .. what does this mean?

twinsmama
07-17-2013, 04:03 PM
i agree that the verdict was the correct one, but imo it gives precidence now for people to do what GZ did ... all you have to do is leave as litttle evidence as possible and make sure you kill the other person ... then it becomes easy to follow the evidence ..

it goes to the case of raul rodriguez ... imo, its very similar, except he was video taping the whole thing .. and then he got 30-40 years in prison

i think zimmerman knew he could do this, get away with it .. i think being charged actually was a surprise to him ... i think the prosecution were made up of terrible lawyers who tried to get the big charge instead of going to reasonable chargers .. in the end, the jury had no choice but to acquit

I know I could kill someone who is beating me up and get away with it too. (although get away with it sounds like you are doing something illegal and not getting in trouble so i will say "justified to do it") i would be surprised and outraged if i was arrested too. In my opinion he should never have been arrested.

I've heard so many things that people say are facts about this case that are things they want to be facts:laugh:

In Florida there is a stand your ground law. I know it isn't in most states but since it happened here I will tell you what I know about Florida. We have a stand your ground law that means you no longer have to retreat if you feel threatened. You can protect yourself. Also to get a concealed weapons permit you must do a class that tells you all the right and wrong ways to carry and when to use your weapon. You can not act like a cop. Which some people are saying he did. My feeling is following the guy wasn't acting like a cop. You can not pull a gun unless you are in fear for your life. From what I understand he didn't pull it before he was getting whooped.

I never knew I had so many racist friends until this happened.

What would you guys do if you had someone walking through a neighborhood close to houses. Assume the guys wearing a hoodie so you can't tell anything about his features/age. Would you call the police? Follow him? For the ones that would follow what would you do if he/she turned on you and started beating you up? If you knew there was a home invasion in your neighborhood prior to seeing this above mentioned suspicious person would you feel differently? Home invasion meaning there were people home?

Me and my husband have had this talk many times since this happened.

rearnakedchoke
07-17-2013, 04:11 PM
I know I could kill someone who is beating me up and get away with it too. (although get away with it sounds like you are doing something illegal and not getting in trouble so i will say "justified to do it") i would be surprised and outraged if i was arrested too. In my opinion he should never have been arrested.

I've heard so many things that people say are facts about this case that are things they want to be facts:laugh:

In Florida there is a stand your ground law. I know it isn't in most states but since it happened here I will tell you what I know about Florida. We have a stand your ground law that means you no longer have to retreat if you feel threatened. You can protect yourself. Also to get a concealed weapons permit you must do a class that tells you all the right and wrong ways to carry and when to use your weapon. You can not act like a cop. Which some people are saying he did. My feeling is following the guy wasn't acting like a cop. You can not pull a gun unless you are in fear for your life. From what I understand he didn't pull it before he was getting whooped.

I never knew I had so many racist friends until this happened.

What would you guys do if you had someone walking through a neighborhood close to houses. Assume the guys wearing a hoodie so you can't tell anything about his features/age. Would you call the police? Follow him? For the ones that would follow what would you do if he/she turned on you and started beating you up? If you knew there was a home invasion in your neighborhood prior to seeing this above mentioned suspicious person would you feel differently? Home invasion meaning there were people home?

Me and my husband have had this talk many times since this happened.

this is why i didn't buy gz's story of how things happened .. there was a video evidence of him being asked if he knew about florida stand your ground laws/self defense etc ... he said he didn't know and his teacher stated that this was of particular interest among the group and they spent a lot of time on it ... gz was changing the story to make himself look innocent ... also the fact that he lied about his $$ situation to get his original bail revoked gave a pretty good idea of his credibility ... like i said in another post, best way to claim self defence is make sure there are no witnesses ... something raul rodriguez didn't do well ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57462584-504083/raul-rodriguez-texas-man-gets-40-years-in-prison-for-fatally-shooting-neighbor-after-claiming-stand-your-ground-defense/

seems to me if your latino and kill a white person, you get 40 years ... if you are latino and you kill a black kid, you go free ... but hey, i am just an ignorant canadian who knows nothing about gun laws in the US

twinsmama
07-17-2013, 04:11 PM
I think manslaughter was a good option to go for, but I don't think the prosecution wanted that, they wanted murder and they were never going to get that imo ... I think if they had the ms charge with an option for criminal negligence etc, they probably woulda have gotten Zimmerman on something like that .. I think the jury believed he should have gotten something, but when presented poorly with murder, ms and nothing, the only reasonable option was acquittal ...

what makes you think it was manslaughter? i mean obviously someone died but what exactly makes you think he did something wrong?

rearnakedchoke
07-17-2013, 04:14 PM
what makes you think it was manslaughter? i mean obviously someone died but what exactly makes you think he did something wrong?

i think he was trying to be a cop .. he knew he had a gun .. sure he didn't know what the other guy was carrying, but he knew he had a gun ready with a bullet in the chamber and more in the clip ready to go ... (i know, nothing more useless than a gun that aint loaded) ... he could have called the cops like he did and that was it ... sure, bad judgement isn't illegal, but he followed the kid ... i think that is wrong .. ain't his job ... he was told he didn't have to follow him and based on his credibility, i think he altered the story to save his hide and it worked ...

twinsmama
07-17-2013, 04:20 PM
this is why i didn't buy gz's story of how things happened .. there was a video evidence of him being asked if he knew about florida stand your ground laws/self defense etc ... he said he didn't know and his teacher stated that this was of particular interest among the group and they spent a lot of time on it ... gz was changing the story to make himself look innocent ... also the fact that he lied about his $$ situation to get his original bail revoked gave a pretty good idea of his credibility ... like i said in another post, best way to claim self defence is make sure there are no witnesses ... something raul rodriguez didn't do well ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57462584-504083/raul-rodriguez-texas-man-gets-40-years-in-prison-for-fatally-shooting-neighbor-after-claiming-stand-your-ground-defense/

seems to me if your latino and kill a white person, you get 40 years ... if you are latino and you kill a black kid, you go free ... but hey, i am just an ignorant canadian who knows nothing about gun laws in the US


i wasn't watching enough to know he lied. lying to the law enforcement in my mind should have some punishment. there is something about the guy that i don't like.

the law is in place to make sure someone protecting themself isn't convicted of murder. on the flip side i'm sure there are people that use it to their advantage. even if the boy lived we still wouldn't know what really happened.

i won't respond to the last statement because it is stupid.

rearnakedchoke
07-17-2013, 04:24 PM
i wasn't watching enough to know he lied. lying to the law enforcement in my mind should have some punishment. there is something about the guy that i don't like.

the law is in place to make sure someone protecting themself isn't convicted of murder. on the flip side i'm sure there are people that use it to their advantage. even if the boy lived we still wouldn't know what really happened.

i won't respond to the last statement because it is stupid.

well the punishment was that his bail was revoked and set at a higher $$ level ... as for the other lie, it wasn't under oath and he was within his rights not to take the stand .... imo, i think the prosecution did a terrible job of putting his interview with hannity as evidence ... i don't know what they were thinking ... here we are giving GZ a chance to take the stand, tell his story and not get cross examined ... now i have to do some research and see if the prosecution or defense let that it ... LOL

twinsmama
07-17-2013, 04:27 PM
i think he was trying to be a cop .. he knew he had a gun .. sure he didn't know what the other guy was carrying, but he knew he had a gun ready with a bullet in the chamber and more in the clip ready to go ... (i know, nothing more useless than a gun that aint loaded) ... he could have called the cops like he did and that was it ... sure, bad judgement isn't illegal, but he followed the kid ... i think that is wrong .. ain't his job ... he was told he didn't have to follow him and based on his credibility, i think he altered the story to save his hide and it worked ...

if he had pulled the gun before the kid starting hitting him maybe i would agree but since he didn't pull it until after he got injured i'd think he wasn't as trigger happy as people are making it seem.

County Mike
07-17-2013, 04:51 PM
Regardless of what he knew, he never broke a law. If Trayvon just went home instead of attacking him, nothing would have happened. The only law breaker in this scenario was Trayvon. End of story.

flo
07-17-2013, 06:57 PM
Regardless of what he knew, he never broke a law. If Trayvon just went home instead of attacking him, nothing would have happened. The only law breaker in this scenario was Trayvon. End of story.

Exactly.

flo
07-17-2013, 07:11 PM
i am lost .. sorry .. what does this mean?

I know you're just trolling to stir things up but I'll bite.

The republicans in FL brought this case for political reasons, the police had investigated and decided there weren't grounds to bring a charge against Z. He was defending himself. That's why a jury found him not guilty.

We republicans don't like it when "our side" make very consequential decisions based on political pressure rather than letting the justice system work. This whole FUBAR mess right now (DoJ making noise about a fed case against Z even though the FBI investigation said there were NO grounds for such, the new DoJ site to give "tips" about Z so they can pursue a civil rights case, the CBC comments this morning, stoking the fires of racial hatred and dismissing our treasured justice system, etc) is thanks so them, the media, our embarrassment of a president and the usual race-baiters who make a living off the subject.

Quit stoking the fire. The case you linked to has nothing in common with the Z case with the exception of using self-defense. People can cherry pick cases all they want, this was NOT ABOUT RACE.

rearnakedchoke
07-17-2013, 07:37 PM
I know you're just trolling to stir things up but I'll bite.

The republicans in FL brought this case for political reasons, the police had investigated and decided there weren't grounds to bring a charge against Z. He was defending himself. That's why a jury found him not guilty.

We republicans don't like it when "our side" make very consequential decisions based on political pressure rather than letting the justice system work. This whole FUBAR mess right now (DoJ making noise about a fed case against Z even though the FBI investigation said there were NO grounds for such, the new DoJ site to give "tips" about Z so they can pursue a civil rights case, the CBC comments this morning, stoking the fires of racial hatred and dismissing our treasured justice system, etc) is thanks so them, the media, our embarrassment of a president and the usual race-baiters who make a living off the subject.

Quit stoking the fire. The case you linked to has nothing in common with the Z case with the exception of using self-defense. People can cherry pick cases all they want, this was NOT ABOUT RACE.

yes .. i honestly didn't know the republicans in fla made this case happen .. i thought it was pressure from everywhere ... but i don't get how you are equating the republicans with the defense ..

as for the other case, it is very similar imo ... raul rodriguez called the police for a disturbance and wanted the police to break up the party ... he brought a gun and when he felt threatened he brandished hit, stood his ground and the others backed off ... one of the others did something to him, grabbed him or whatever (its on tape) and he shot him .. the others rushed in and got shot as well ... he was standing his ground in his opinion, and he is in jail for 40 years

Bonnie
07-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Like Charlie Crist, eh Chuck? Even though it's off-topic, I'd like to know your thoughts about Marco Rubio now that he's part of the "Gang of 8" with this immigration bill.

Anyway, here is a very short but interesting article from a FL atty. about the trial.

The Embarrassment of the George Zimmerman Verdict (http://criminaldefenseblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-embarrassment-of-george-zimmerman.html)

Spot on article! Thanks for sharing that with us, Cathy. :)

Bonnie
07-17-2013, 07:53 PM
Regardless of what he knew, he never broke a law. If Trayvon just went home instead of attacking him, nothing would have happened. The only law breaker in this scenario was Trayvon. End of story.

....this was NOT ABOUT RACE.

The truth and the truth.

twinsmama
07-17-2013, 08:57 PM
yes .. i honestly didn't know the republicans in fla made this case happen .. i thought it was pressure from everywhere ... but i don't get how you are equating the republicans with the defense ..

as for the other case, it is very similar imo ... raul rodriguez called the police for a disturbance and wanted the police to break up the party ... he brought a gun and when he felt threatened he brandished hit, stood his ground and the others backed off ... one of the others did something to him, grabbed him or whatever (its on tape) and he shot him .. the others rushed in and got shot as well ... he was standing his ground in his opinion, and he is in jail for 40 years

not sure if that happened in florida or not but i will assume that happened in florida....his problem.....don't pull a gun to intimidate someone, pull it to kill them because you are scared for your life.

Bonnie
07-17-2013, 09:40 PM
yes .. i honestly didn't know the republicans in fla made this case happen .. i thought it was pressure from everywhere ... but i don't get how you are equating the republicans with the defense ..

as for the other case, it is very similar imo ... raul rodriguez called the police for a disturbance and wanted the police to break up the party ... he brought a gun and when he felt threatened he brandished hit, stood his ground and the others backed off ... one of the others did something to him, grabbed him or whatever (its on tape) and he shot him .. the others rushed in and got shot as well ... he was standing his ground in his opinion, and he is in jail for 40 years

Rodriguez's defense was similar to that used by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.

Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law is known as the Castle Doctrine. It was revised in 2007 to expand the right to use deadly force. The new version allows people to defend themselves in their homes, workplaces or vehicles. The law also says that a person using force cannot provoke the attacker or be involved in criminal activity at the time[/B].

RNC, these two cases are not the same. If you watch the video that Rodriguez made, to make sure he had "proof" that he was in the right to stand his ground, it is clear he was provoking the situation which the law in Texas states you cannot do. He keeps telling the 911 operator, "I'm going to have to defend myself, I'm going to have to defend myself..." He even brings up he's standing his ground. All conveniently video-taped by him while he's talking on the phone with the 911 operator so that he has that conversation as recorded proof also. He obviously thought out using the stand your ground defense before he ever went over there which is only cemented by his videotape of the whole thing. He thought he would be exonerated by his video but it only proved his intent and guilt.

I think if we had video of the incident between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin we would see things play out as George Zimmerman said they happened. Also, it said in the article you linked (I posted/bolded above) that Zimmerman was using the stand your ground law in his defense, from what I understand, that is not correct, his defense lawyer Mr. O'Mara said they did not rely on that provision in the courtroom because Mr. Zimmerman had no option to retreat. However, I did read where it was included in the jury instructions; it's kind of confusing! lol From what I understand if Zimmerman had claimed stand your ground, he would not now be able to be sued civilly by Trayvon's family, but since he didn't, if they so choose they can sue him for wrongful death.

Rodriguez had the opportunity to avoid continuing/escalating the confrontation by walking away/retreating before using force. His neighbor told him to leave, but he refused. I believe Trayvon Martin decided he was going to confront George Zimmerman, and then he hit him in the nose to quickly gain advantage, and when Zimmerman went down, he got on top of him. Zimmerman couldn't retreat.

Bonnie
07-17-2013, 09:48 PM
not sure if that happened in florida or not but i will assume that happened in florida....his problem.....don't pull a gun to intimidate someone, pull it to kill them because you are scared for your life.

It was in Texas.

Bonnie
07-17-2013, 10:28 PM
Attorney General Eric Holder made stand your ground the topic in his speech yesterday at a NAACP convention and Stevie Wonder announced he would boycott Florida and other states that have stand your ground laws.

Here's an interesting article about who has benefited most in Florida using "stand your ground":

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/

Blacks benefit from Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law at disproportionate rate

10:02 PM 07/16/2013 - Patrick Howley, Investigative Reporter

African Americans benefit from Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state’s population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing “Stand Your Ground” would help African Americans.

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state’s total “Stand Your Ground” claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Nonetheless, prominent African Americans including Holder and “Ebony and Ivory” singer Stevie Wonder, who has vowed not to perform in the Sunshine State until the law is revoked, have made “Stand Your Ground” a central part of the Trayvon Martin controversy.

Holder, who was pressured by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and other progressive groups to open a civil rights case against acquitted neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in the 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Martin, criticized Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law in a speech Tuesday before the NAACP.

The law was not invoked by Zimmerman’s defense team but was included in instructions to the jury.

“We must confront the underlying attitudes, the mistaken beliefs and the unfortunate stereotypes that serve too often as the basis for police action and private judgments. Separate and apart from the case that has drawn the nation’s attention, it’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhood,” Holder said to applause in his speech before the NAACP Tuesday.

“These laws try to fix something that was never broken. There has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if — and the ‘if’ is important — if no safe retreat is available. But we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common-sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely. By allowing and perhaps encouraging violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety,” Holder said.

“The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent. It is our collective obligation; we must stand OUR ground to ensure — (cheers, applause, music) — we must stand our ground to ensure that our laws reduce violence, and take a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they prevent,” Holder said.

But approximately one third of Florida “Stand Your Ground” claims in fatal cases have been made by black defendants, and they have used the defense successfully 55 percent of the time, at the same rate as the population at large and at a higher rate than white defendants, according to a Daily Caller analysis of a database maintained by the Tampa Bay Times. Additionally, the majority of victims in Florida “Stand Your Ground” cases have been white.

African Americans used “Stand Your Ground” defenses at nearly twice the rate of their presence in the Florida population, which was listed at 16.6 percent in 2012

One hundred thirty three people in the state of Florida have used a “Stand Your Ground” defense. Of these claims, 73 were considered “justified” (55 percent), while 39 resulted in criminal convictions and 21 cases are still pending.

Forty four African Americans in the state of Florida have claimed a “Stand Your Ground” defense. Of these claims, 24 were considered “justified” (55 percent), while 11 resulted in convictions and nine cases are still pending.

Of the 76 white people who have used the defense, 40 were considered “justified” (less than 53 percent), while 25 were convicted and 11 cases are still pending.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/#ixzz2ZLObMkLG

flo
07-17-2013, 11:42 PM
Thank you, Bonnie.

Chuck
07-18-2013, 08:46 PM
Attorney General Eric Holder made stand your ground the topic in his speech yesterday at a NAACP convention and Stevie Wonder announced he would boycott Florida and other states that have stand your ground laws.

Here's an interesting article about who has benefited most in Florida using "stand your ground":

Interesting but absolutely useless in this discussion.

You realize that things like facts and the truth have no place in a race based discussion whipped into a frenzy by a greedy irresponsible media right???

Neezar
07-18-2013, 09:09 PM
If someone was following me through a neighborhood at night, I would turn around and try to whip the shyte out of them, too.

Zimmerman should have taken his ass whoopin' like a man and left the gun out of it.

After voicing his displeasure with these guys(criminals/burglars" in his mind) always getting away, Zimmerman got out of his car with a GUN and followed someone he admits to thinking is a criminal. Geez. You can't get any more intent than that.

Prosecution did a shoddy job, imo.

ps how can you chase someone and be "standing your ground"? lol

rearnakedchoke
07-18-2013, 09:16 PM
If someone was following me through a neighborhood at night, I would turn around and try to whip the shyte out of them, too.

Zimmerman should have taken his ass whoopin' like a man and left the gun out of it.

After voicing his displeasure with these guys(criminals/burglars" in his mind) always getting away, Zimmerman got out of his car with a GUN and followed someone he admits to thinking is a criminal. Geez. You can't get any more intent than that.

Prosecution did a shoddy job, imo.

ps how can you chase someone and be "standing your ground"? lol

Thank you!!!

its easy to stand your ground when you are a wanna be tough guy and know you are packing heat!

Neezar
07-18-2013, 09:49 PM
I don't think that's the right way to phrase it, because you're making it sound like Zimmerman went into the situation with the intent of committing a crime.



What do think Zimmerman's intent was?


A better way to state it would be to say that Zimmerman knew he didn't to anything wrong, but was surprised to actually be charged with a crime for defending himself.



How can you chase someone down and then shoot them because they are beating your ass and call that self defense?


Anytime, someone is in the process of committing a crime and they get killed while the victim is trying to stop that crime, then it should never be considered anything more than manslaughter. Murder was always the wrong charge to file.

Who exactly was committing a crime?

Neezar
07-18-2013, 09:51 PM
Not Guilty was the correct verdict. Whether you agree with him getting out of his car and following Trayvon or not, it wasn't against the law. The only time a law was broken in the entire scenario was when Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and beat him up.

You can accuse George Zimmerman of bad judgement but not of breaking any laws. He only used his gun when he felt his life was in danger, and rightfully so.

Zimmerman chased him down.

Was Martin not acting in self defense because Zimmerman was attempting to detain (a criminal charge of false imprisonment) him?

Neezar
07-18-2013, 09:57 PM
I think if we had video of the incident between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin we would see things play out as George Zimmerman said they happened. Also, it said in the article you linked (I posted/bolded above) that Zimmerman was using the stand your ground law in his defense, from what I understand, that is not correct, his defense lawyer Mr. O'Mara said they did not rely on that provision in the courtroom because Mr. Zimmerman had no option to retreat. However, I did read where it was included in the jury instructions; it's kind of confusing! lol From what I understand if Zimmerman had claimed stand your ground, he would not now be able to be sued civilly by Trayvon's family, but since he didn't, if they so choose they can sue him for wrongful death.

Rodriguez had the opportunity to avoid continuing/escalating the confrontation by walking away/ (And Zimmerman couldn't have stayed in his car? lol) retreating before using force. His neighbor told him to leave, but he refused. I believe Trayvon Martin decided he was going to confront George Zimmerman, and then he hit him in the nose to quickly gain advantage, and when Zimmerman went down, he got on top of him. Zimmerman couldn't retreat.

Again, how do you chase someone down and then say you had no option to retreat? lol

Chasing someone down is FORCING a confrontation.

Bonnie
07-18-2013, 11:10 PM
Zimmerman chased him down.

Was Martin not acting in self defense because Zimmerman was attempting to detain (a criminal charge of false imprisonment) him?

There was no evidence presented that Zimmerman chased him down or was trying to detain him...where are you getting that from?

One of the alternate jurors said that they had the phone records of Rachel Jeantel, Trayvon's girl friend who testified for the state, which shows the time of their calls when this started, etc., and she testified that Trayvon said he was near his father's fiancé's which is at the opposite end of the "T" of the sidewalk where the confrontation started so how does he end up back at the "T" where George Zimmerman is if he didn't backtrack to confront Zimmerman? If Zimmerman "chased" him to where he told Rachel he was, why wasn't the confrontation at that spot? The only thing that makes sense is that Trayvon decided to go back.

The prosecutors (both of them) kept painting a picture of a scared child; if he was so scared, why didn't he walk on to his father's fiancé's apt since he was so close to it, why go back if he's so scared of this person? The prosecutors repeatedly called Trayvon a "child" using the word wanting the jurors to see him as this very young, small, defenseless scared child, if that's the case, what is this "child" doing walking all by himself to the store and back in the pitch black? And it was very very dark at night behind those apts they said. So which is he, the little child they painted him to be or the adult teenager who decided he was bigger than the other guy and could take him?

People keep acting like Zimmerman did something wrong or illegal by getting out of his car, that by doing so he deserved the beating he was getting and he should have just taken it like a "man"; but that same thinking can be used when it comes to Trayvon and his bad judgement, not that anyone would dare say that out loud! IMO, they both made bad judgement calls that led to this avoidable tragedy.

The prosecutors wanted to make their case all about "emotion" because they had no case. As much as these jurors might have wanted to give Trayvon's parents someone to pay for their son's life, they followed the law, they did their job, a job they didn't ask for.

Neezar
07-19-2013, 03:20 AM
There was no evidence presented that Zimmerman chased him down or was trying to detain him...where are you getting that from?

A witness stated she saw two men running about 10 feet apart just before the incident. If Martin was chasing Zimmerman don't you think he would have told that?


One of the alternate jurors said that they had the phone records of Rachel Jeantel, Trayvon's girl friend who testified for the state, which shows the time of their calls when this started, etc., and she testified that Trayvon said he was near his father's fiancé's which is at the opposite end of the "T" of the sidewalk where the confrontation started so how does he end up back at the "T" where George Zimmerman is if he didn't backtrack to confront Zimmerman? If Zimmerman "chased" him to where he told Rachel he was, why wasn't the confrontation at that spot? The only thing that makes sense is that Trayvon decided to go back.

"Near" to Martin could have meant in the neighborhood, couldn't it? :unsure-1: I mean did he say he was right at the front door? The girlfriend heard the beginning of that confrontation, didn't she? Did she mention Martin running before the scuffle? If not then Martin was lying about where he was or Zimmerman confronted him in front of his father's fiancé's place.


The prosecutors (both of them) kept painting a picture of a scared child; if he was so scared, why didn't he walk on to his father's fiancé's apt since he was so close to it, why go back if he's so scared of this person? The prosecutors repeatedly called Trayvon a "child" using the word wanting the jurors to see him as this very young, small, defenseless scared child, if that's the case, what is this "child" doing walking all by himself to the store and back in the pitch black? And it was very very dark at night behind those apts they said. So which is he, the little child they painted him to be or the adult teenager who decided he was bigger than the other guy and could take him?

What kind of person, child, or man he was didn't concern me in this so I will leave that be.

People keep acting like Zimmerman did something wrong or illegal by getting out of his car, that by doing so he deserved the beating he was getting and he should have just taken it like a "man"; but that same thinking can be used when it comes to Trayvon and his bad judgement, not that anyone would dare say that out loud! IMO, they both made bad judgement calls that led to this avoidable tragedy.

And which bad judgment call did Martin make?

The prosecutors wanted to make their case all about "emotion" because they had no case. As much as these jurors might have wanted to give Trayvon's parent's someone to pay for their son's life, they followed the law, they did their job, a job they didn't ask for.

To me, considering.......

- Zimmerman voices his disgust that they always get away.

- Zimmerman plainly states the boy is running away.

- Zimmerman gets out to pursue Martin.

- Zimmerman has a gun.

- Dispatcher wanted Zimmerman to meet police at the mailboxes and he tells them to call when they get there and he will tell them where he is. That clearly shows he doesn't intend on staying at the car.

-Zimmerman originally said he was getting out of his car to look at a street sign and was walking back to his car. It was no where near his car.

.....I believe Zimmerman kept looking after he hung up with 911. Located Martin, that is when girlfriend heard the beginning of the confrontation, Martin ran. I think Zimmerman chased him and caught him or Martin decided to turn and fight. Then when Zimmerman was losing he got scared and shot the kid.

Of course, I can't prove it. But to me, all the circumstantial evidence points to a forced or at the very least a provoked confrontation with Zimmerman being the clear aggressor.

flo
07-19-2013, 05:04 AM
To me, considering.......

Of course, I can't prove it. But to me, all the circumstantial evidence points to a forced or at the very least a provoked confrontation with Zimmerman being the clear aggressor.

A jury, who heard all the evidence and examined it in detail, disagrees.

The bad judgement call Trayvon Martin made was to attack George Zimmerman and beat him.

If thugs had been breaking into my neighborhood and terrorizing people, I'd be disgusted that they always get away as well. Wouldn't you, Denise? He was a neighborhood watchperson, he has a right to have a gun. He had a right to defend himself against a beating.

When he was originally interviewed and the police said they had a video of the incident to gauge his reaction, they testified that Zimmerman said "Thank God, I was hoping somebody would videotape it". He was also very upset when the police told him that Martin died.

Why would the prosecution withhold discovery evidence from the defense? Particularly the pictures of Zimmerman's wounds? That's very troubling. Read Prof. Dershowitz (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/07/angela_corey_vs_alan_dershowitz.html) re: State's Atty. Corey.

flo
07-19-2013, 05:09 AM
If someone was following me through a neighborhood at night, I would turn around and try to whip the shyte out of them, too.

Zimmerman should have taken his ass whoopin' like a man and left the gun out of it.

After voicing his displeasure with these guys(criminals/burglars" in his mind) always getting away, Zimmerman got out of his car with a GUN and followed someone he admits to thinking is a criminal. Geez. You can't get any more intent than that.

Prosecution did a shoddy job, imo.

ps how can you chase someone and be "standing your ground"? lol

"Standing your ground" was not an issue with either side in this trial. It was self defense. What testimony said he was chasing Martin?

Zimmerman said that Martin saw his gun and was reaching for it. If this is true, he had a right to defend himself.

If someone was beating me and they reached for my gun, I'd use it to protect myself. Ditto for my friends and loved ones if they are attacked.

This whole thing is a tragedy for both families. The jury couldn't surmise or base their judgement on sympathy or "what if" or "maybe". They could only consider the law. It's terrible what this case is doing to the country, it is dividing people in ways I haven't seen for a long time. It's sad that the children murdered in Chicago and all over the country don't get the same concern. It's sickening to see it made into a racial issue when it-clearly-is-not. I pray that the whole thing will just end.

Bonnie
07-19-2013, 06:00 AM
A witness stated she saw two men running about 10 feet apart just before the incident. If Martin was chasing Zimmerman don't you think he would have told that?

I'm going by where they were at the "T" of the sidewalk and where they ended up right near there, where Trayvon was shot. I believe Zimmerman told the 911 operator he lost sight of the guy. He said he walked up the sidewalk to the front of the apts to see the address and was walking back when Trayvon appeared in front of him there at the "T". Everything seems to back what Zimmerman told the police. The police even lied and told Zimmerman they had video from a nearby camera that had caught the whole incident to see how he would react, but the detective testified Zimmerman was relieved to hear they had video that would prove/back up what he was telling them happened.

"Near" to Martin could have meant in the neighborhood, couldn't it? I mean did he say he was right at the front door? The girlfriend heard the beginning of that confrontation, didn't she? Did she mention Martin running before the scuffle? If not then Martin was lying about where he was or Zimmerman confronted him in front of his father's fiancé's place.

I believe Trayvon told Rachel he was almost there to the apt. They showed a layout of the apartments and sidewalk where the confrontation took place and where the fiancé's apt is in distance from there, it wasn't far from where this took place, I believe right down the sidewalk in the opposite direction of the "T".

What kind of person, child, or man he was didn't concern me in this so I will leave that be.

I only brought that up because if Trayvon did backtrack to confront Zimmerman (which is what I believe happened) it does not fit with someone who is scared of the guy who he thinks is following him. Logically, you'd think if he is scared, he would have run the rest of the way to the nearby apartment and tell someone that a guy was following him. In the trial, the defense had a board showing the actual times of the calls and they showed a 4 minute gap between calls where Trayvon had plenty of time to get safely to the apartment. Mr. O'Mara actually had the jury/courtroom be silent for 4 minutes to effectively show how long 4 minutes is. They couldn't tell the jury what Trayvon was doing in those 4 minutes when he could have gone home, but they know for sure he didn't go home.

And which bad judgment call did Martin make?

I believe they showed in the trial he had plenty of time to get safely home, but for whatever reason he chose not to go home, that was the first bad decision. The second was confronting Zimmerman, and the third, fatal decision was physically attacking Zimmerman. From the evidence of Zimmerman's injuries, and the eyewitness who described who he saw on the bottom by what they were wearing, I do believe Trayvon was the aggressor in the physical attack.

To me, considering.......

- Zimmerman voices his disgust that they always get away.

There'd been a bunch of burglaries in that gated community and it was young black men committing them. They even said one had been arrested, but he was later released (not sure on bond or what), this was before the incident with Trayvon. Knowing what was going on at the time, I believe that gives what he said some context, don't you. And he didn't say it as the prosecutors portrayed it to the jury, angry and with ill will; even the 911 operator testified to that.

- Zimmerman plainly states the boy is running away.

Yes, but he later said, not really running, but more of a skip. The prosecutor actually skipped in the courtroom, he just looked silly.

- Zimmerman gets out to pursue Martin.

I know "follow" can be pursue, or stalk, or chase, but I just don't think Zimmerman was doing any of those, I think he simply wanted to see where this person was going, if he was up to something. Again, I think it comes back to what was happening in the community with all the burglaries.

- Zimmerman has a gun.

Yes, he is carrying a gun legally, apparently he carried it with/on him most of the time except when at work. Did this make him feel safe to get out of his vehicle, in the dark and the rain, probably

- Dispatcher wanted Zimmerman to meet police at the mailboxes and he tells them to call when they get there and he will tell them where he is. That clearly shows he doesn't intend on staying at the car.

He didn't have to stay in his car. I think that's why he walked down the sidewalk to the front of the apartments to see the address so he could tell them where he was at. I'm not sure where the mailboxes were, if they were back near the clubhouse area where he first sees Trayvon(?).

-Zimmerman originally said he was getting out of his car to look at a street sign and was walking back to his car. It was no where near his car.

Yes, I think he told them there wasn't a street sign there where he was. As I said above, I think that's why he said he walked up the sidewalk to the front of the apartments where it was lighted to see the address on the building. He said he was walking back to his car from there when Trayvon confronted him at the "T".

.....I believe Zimmerman kept looking after he hung up with 911. Located Martin, that is when girlfriend heard the beginning of the confrontation, Martin ran. I think Zimmerman chased him and caught him or Martin decided to turn and fight. Then when Zimmerman was losing he got scared and shot the kid.

Of course, I can't prove it. But to me, all the circumstantial evidence points to a forced or at the very least a provoked confrontation with Zimmerman being the clear aggressor.

The GF was a "hear" witness as to what Trayvon told her, but I'm skeptical of some of what she tried to say she heard, but I do think she is important as far as establishing "time" like when the call ends, plus they are able to look at the phone records to establish times.

I believe the facts...Zimmerman's injuries, the guy who came out of his apartment and testified who he saw on the bottom, the person yelling for help, the forensics--the fact we know the hoodie was away from Trayvon's body because of the powder tattooing on his chest which backs up Zimmerman's claim Trayvon was leaning over him at the time he shot him...I believe these things point to Zimmerman telling the truth. Not to mention the lead detective who investigated, the one who said he tried to trip Zimmerman up to see if he was lying--remember I told you he lied and told Zimmerman there was video of the incident?--he even came to the conclusion that Zimmerman was telling the truth.

There's a reason the police and original prosecutor refused to arrest and charge him. And the FBI investigated and found no evidence that race was a factor in the shooting.

I wish these two had never laid eyes on each other that night. :sad:

Bonnie
07-19-2013, 06:13 AM
Interesting but absolutely useless in this discussion.

You realize that things like facts and the truth have no place in a race based discussion whipped into a frenzy by a greedy irresponsible media right???

Yeah, facts and truth, they don't want those pesky things getting in the way of their agenda!

flo
07-19-2013, 06:44 AM
Interesting but absolutely useless in this discussion.

You realize that things like facts and the truth have no place in a race based discussion whipped into a frenzy by a greedy irresponsible media right???

Heh, right. :duh:


I wish these two had never laid eyes on each other that night. :sad:

I wish that too, Bonnie. One family wouldn't be grief-stricken over their dead child and another family wouldn't be in fear of their lives and future in this country.

County Mike
07-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Zimmerman didn't CHASE Trayvon. He merely followed to watch where he went. At one point, he lost track of Trayvon, had no idea where he was. Trayvon could have easily just gone home at that point. He was no longer being followed. Instead, he chose to go back and confront Zimmerman. That's why it was self defense for Zimmerman. He did not start the fight.

Neezar
07-20-2013, 03:33 AM
A woman said she saw two men running 10 feet apart. Then later changed her testimony to maybe it was just one man running. The 10 feet apart is a pretty good detail. lol. I don't know why she changed her story.

I'm sure that Martin was beating Zimmerman up. And technically by law he was covered in shooting the kid under self defense.

However, I still believe Zimmerman was the aggressor and Martin was fighting out of self defense to begin with.

Bonnie
07-20-2013, 05:07 PM
A woman said she saw two men running 10 feet apart. Then later changed her testimony to maybe it was just one man running. The 10 feet apart is a pretty good detail. lol. I don't know why she changed her story.

I'm sure that Martin was beating Zimmerman up. And technically by law he was covered in shooting the kid under self defense.

However, I still believe Zimmerman was the aggressor and Martin was fighting out of self defense to begin with.

How are you defining "aggressor"? A lot of people are saying he was the aggressor because he got out of his car, I don't agree with that. Neither of them had broken any laws or done anything illegal until the first punch was thrown, and Zimmerman is the one with the broken nose. The only mark on Trayvon is the bullet wound. Zimmerman could have used his gun a lot sooner than he did, but he didn't do that. If he was the aggressor I would have expected the shot to come sooner.

Two things you haven't commented on, 1) both Mike and I hit on the fact both of them tell the people they are on the phone with that they've lost sight of the other one, and 2) those 4 minutes Trayvon had to get safely home. They've lost sight of each other and Trayvon has the time to get safely home. Why didn't he go home! How do you get around that?!

Neezar
07-21-2013, 03:48 PM
How are you defining "aggressor"? A lot of people are saying he was the aggressor because he got out of his car, I don't agree with that. Neither of them had broken any laws or done anything illegal until the first punch was thrown, and Zimmerman is the one with the broken nose. The only mark on Trayvon is the bullet wound. Zimmerman could have used his gun a lot sooner than he did, but he didn't do that. If he was the aggressor I would have expected the shot to come sooner.

He didn't just get of his car. He gave chase. He admits that on the 911 call. Dispatch tells him not to so he stops. However, he had given exact address to clubhouse. Tells them to go left of clubhouse past mailboxes and there is his truck. (Pretty exact directions, why look for street name?) Dispatch suggests meeting police at the mailboxes. He at first agrees and then tells her to have them call him and he will let them know where he is. (He has no intention of giving up the pursuit, imo.) He has already expressed outrage that they always get away. And upset that he 'lost him' on the phone. I call him the aggressor because I believe he continued to pursue Martin. (and probably tried to detain him)

Two things you haven't commented on, 1) both Mike and I hit on the fact both of them tell the people they are on the phone with that they've lost sight of the other one, and 2) those 4 minutes Trayvon had to get safely home. They've lost sight of each other and Trayvon has the time to get safely home. Why didn't he go home! How do you get around that?!

He told his girlfriend that he was going to try to lose the guy following him. I'm not sure I would want to lead someone following me to my front door.

Yeah, and about those 4 mins. What was Zimmerman doing? Did it take him 4 mins to look for a street sign and start back to his car? He has given them exact directions to his truck. Why not just meet them there?

Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him until 1 min before 911 calls about a fight. She says he was at his father's place, heard the initial confrontation of them meeting up last time. I believe Zimmerman found him there, Martin ran (hence the woman who saw the running of two people 10 feet apart "then later maybe only one, lol" guy ), Zimmerman caught him and then proceeded to get his ass beat.

I believe he shot Martin in self defense but I think he got himself in that position to start with.

Neighborhood watch people are not supposed to follow/pursue. It's in the handbook. lol

I believe this was vigilante justice. However in this case the kid was doing nothing wrong.

Neezar
07-21-2013, 04:17 PM
btw, in an interview the police chief (the one on Zimmerman's side that lost his job) stated that Zimmerman had "lost" Martin and was on his way back to his car when he was attacked.

Really? Nothing about looking for a street sign there. And again, what about the time lapse. What was Zimmerman doing?

Bonnie
07-21-2013, 10:59 PM
Unfortunately we don't have video with audio so we can all see and hear exactly what took place. Even if we did have it, people would still spin it to suit there own purpose/agenda.

VCURamFan
07-21-2013, 11:19 PM
Romany Malco Pens ‘Message to Trayvon Sympathizers’

http://eurweb.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/romany-malco.jpg

From EurWeb.com:
Romany Malco, who reprises his role as Zeke in the recently wrapped “Think Like a Man, Too,” weighed into the Trayvon Martin topic from a different angle. In a blog on The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/romany-malco/a-message-to-trayvon-mart_b_3612231.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular), the actor pointed out the role of mainstream news, pop culture and economics in this story steamrolling over more prevalent black on black shooting crimes that are largely uncovered by the press.

He wrote:
I haven’t touched on the Trayvon Martin issue because race matters in this country are the paralysis of the American people. To constructively discuss Trayvon would require empathy, introspection and an understanding of America’s social and economic history. This is why the open forums we have seen thus far seem to fuel more ignorance and bias than reasonable debate.

To be brutally honest, the only reason people are even aware of Trayvon Martin is because it became a topic within mainstream news and pop culture. Meaning: News directors saw it as a profitable, sensational story. Hundreds of blacks die annually in South Side Chicago without even a blurb. Trayvon isn’t in the mainstream news for any reason other than ratings and profit. The news coverage on the Zimmerman case almost implies that the killing of this young black man is somehow an anomaly and I resent that.

In this country, if it isn’t streamlined through mainstream media and pop culture, it doesn’t seem to warrant national debate. Our “government” continues to wreak havoc on our civil liberties and there is little to no protest from the black community because of media diversion tactics that keep such pertinent issues out of mainstream media. But if Jay-Z or Rihanna were to make mention of it, we’d suddenly be jolted out of our sugar comas and protesting on freeways.

My point being, people are up in arms about Trayvon based on regurgitated pundits and manipulated facts aired to elicit emotion while fueling America’s anger and division. That’s how you boost ratings. No different from Piers Morgan’s desperate rant over gun control when he knew his ratings were in the dumps. And from where I stand, anyone who still relies on corporate-owned media pundits to support an argument isn’t equipped to offer worthwhile solutions.

People are using Trayvon Martin’s death as an excuse to project their own deep-seated issues with racism and will not be capable of intelligent, empathetic debate until they’ve cooled down and afforded themselves an education.

Addressing Trayvon without first addressing the absence of critical thinking in our schools, the lack of introspection, the reasons for our low tolerance and our country’s skewed value system does nothing more than create a sounding board for the ignorant. So rather than facilitate more racism outcry, I’d like to address young black people specifically.

I believe we lost that trial for Trayvon long before he was killed. Trayvon was doomed the moment ignorance became synonymous with young black America . We lost that case by using media outlets (music, movies, social media, etc.) as vehicles to perpetuate the same negative images and social issues that destroyed the black community in the first place. When we went on record glorifying violent crime and when we voted for a president we never thought to hold accountable. When we signed on to do reality shows that fed into the media’s stereotypes of black men, we ingrained an image of Trayvon Martin so overwhelming that who he actually may have been didn’t matter anymore.

Don’t you find it peculiar that the same media outlets who have worked so diligently to galvanize the negative stigmas of black men in America are now airing open debates on improving the image of black males in American media? Do you honestly think CNN is using their competitive time slots for philanthropy?

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” – Rahm Emanuel

If we really wanted to ensure Trayvon Martin’s killing was not in vain, we’d stop perpetuating negative images that are now synonymous with black men in America. We’d stop rapping about selling drugs and killing niggas. The next time we saw a man beating a woman, we’d call for help or break it up, but one thing we would not do is stand by with our cellphones out — yelling WORLDSTAR! Instead of rewarding kids for memorization, we’d reward them for independent and critical thinking.

We’d spend less time subconsciously repeating lyrics about death and murder and more time understanding why we are so willing to twerk to songs that bemean women and boast of having things we cannot afford. We’d set examples of self-love for our youth by honoring our own hair, skin and eye color. We’d stop spending money on designer gear that we should be spending on our physical and psychological health. We’d seek information outside the corporate owned-media that manipulates us. We’d stop letting television babysit our kids and we’d quit regurgitating pundits we haven’t come up with on our own.

Education, introspection, self-love and excellence are the only ways to overcome the wrath of ignorance. So before going back to popping molly and getting Turnt Up, I urge you to consider the implications of your actions. Your child’s life may depend on it.

flo
07-21-2013, 11:44 PM
Amen to that, Ben, thanks for posting it. I think that's something with which we can all agree.

Chuck
07-22-2013, 02:17 AM
He told his girlfriend that he was going to try to lose the guy following him. I'm not sure I would want to lead someone following me to my front door.

Yeah, and about those 4 mins. What was Zimmerman doing? Did it take him 4 mins to look for a street sign and start back to his car? He has given them exact directions to his truck. Why not just meet them there?

Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him until 1 min before 911 calls about a fight. She says he was at his father's place, heard the initial confrontation of them meeting up last time. I believe Zimmerman found him there, Martin ran (hence the woman who saw the running of two people 10 feet apart "then later maybe only one, lol" guy ), Zimmerman caught him and then proceeded to get his ass beat.

I believe he shot Martin in self defense but I think he got himself in that position to start with.

Neighborhood watch people are not supposed to follow/pursue. It's in the handbook. lol

I believe this was vigilante justice. However in this case the kid was doing nothing wrong.

So in the absence of fact just insert theory or assumptions? Or worse yet despite the presence of facts insert it anyway?

So let me get this straight... Zimmerman found Martin, Martin ran and Zimmerman caught him??? :huh: Seriously? Um... have you seen the two people in question here??? So a fat out of shape Zimmerman chased and actually CAUGHT Martin????

Ok... sure... again NO evidence shows that but we've already established that things like truth, facts and evidence mean nothing to those with an agenda. So... Zimmerman catches him... what then? Martin has ZERO injuries besides the gunshot... Zimmerman has Zero marks on his hands/knuckles to indicate he ever struck Martin, even once.


I believe he shot Martin in self defense but I think he got himself in that position to start with.

Unless the position you're referring to is laying on the ground and waiting for Martin to slam his head into a sidewalk then no, he didn't.

Neighborhood watch people are not supposed to follow/pursue. It's in the handbook. lol
I know facts don't matter but Zimmerman wasn't "on duty" that night and wasn't acting as part of the neighborhood watch. So while technically he was part of it he wasn't on that night.

I believe he shot Martin in self defense.....I believe this was vigilante justice.

Which is it? Can't be both.

However in this case the kid was doing nothing wrong.
Other than starting the physical altercation by sucker punching Zimmerman in the nose, getting on top of him, raining down punches and ultimately slamming his head into a sidewalk multiple times right??? :huh:

Bonnie
07-22-2013, 04:08 AM
:sign0011: Romany Malco

Thanks for posting that, Ben.

Neezar
07-22-2013, 06:24 PM
So in the absence of fact just insert theory or assumptions? Or worse yet despite the presence of facts insert it anyway?

So let me get this straight... Zimmerman found Martin, Martin ran and Zimmerman caught him??? :huh: Seriously? Um... have you seen the two people in question here??? So a fat out of shape Zimmerman chased and actually CAUGHT Martin????

Ok... sure... again NO evidence shows that but we've already established that things like truth, facts and evidence mean nothing to those with an agenda. So... Zimmerman catches him... what then? Martin has ZERO injuries besides the gunshot... Zimmerman has Zero marks on his hands/knuckles to indicate he ever struck Martin, even once.




Unless the position you're referring to is laying on the ground and waiting for Martin to slam his head into a sidewalk then no, he didn't.


I know facts don't matter but Zimmerman wasn't "on duty" that night and wasn't acting as part of the neighborhood watch. So while technically he was part of it he wasn't on that night.

So then he really had no reason to be following a suspicious looking kid into an apartment complex that he had NO business being at.

ps He may have not been on duty but he was definitely playing the role.


Which is it? Can't be both.


Other than starting the physical altercation by sucker punching Zimmerman in the nose,

Is this an example of facts you speak of? That's Zimmerman's tale. Just not sure I believe it.

getting on top of him, raining down punches and ultimately slamming his head into a sidewalk multiple times right??? :huh:

No matter how you look at it Zimmerman went into that complex after that kid. He was captain of neighborhood watch so he knew better than to do that. He had to have a purpose for being in there. If it wasn't to confront the kid, then what?

What may have started out as vigilante justice became a case of having to defend himself. Hence, the self defense and vigilante justice both. :laugh: So suck it, Chuck!

Neezar
07-22-2013, 06:29 PM
So let me get this straight... Zimmerman found Martin, Martin ran and Zimmerman caught him??? :huh: Seriously? Um... have you seen the two people in question here??? So a fat out of shape Zimmerman chased and actually CAUGHT Martin????


http://cbsmiami.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-in-cuffs-sanford-pd-video-image.jpg?w=300

Yeah, look at his fat ass. :laugh:

Neezar
07-22-2013, 06:58 PM
George Zimmerman Rescues Family From Overturned Truck

George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer (http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19735432&ref=http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432&h=rAQESjJlP&s=1#) SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.
By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.
Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after speaking with the deputy, police said.
It's the first known sighting of Zimmerman since he left the courtroom following his acquittal last week on murder charges for the death of Martin. Zimmerman, 29, shot and killed Martin, 17, in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012. The jury determined that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.

flo
07-22-2013, 08:13 PM
So now he's wrong to aid car crash victims?

He's neither a saint nor a devil. He's just a guy who was trying to protect his neighborhood and defended himself from an undeserved beating.

Both Z & M could have done things differently. But it happened the way it did and the jury has spoken.

Chuck
07-22-2013, 08:26 PM
No matter how you look at it Zimmerman went into that complex after that kid. He was captain of neighborhood watch so he knew better than to do that. He had to have a purpose for being in there. If it wasn't to confront the kid, then what?

What may have started out as vigilante justice became a case of having to defend himself. Hence, the self defense and vigilante justice both. :laugh: So suck it, Chuck!

You my dear are simply a Traybot.

Poor thing, don't worry, there IS a cure... it's called TRUTH!!!!

You should check it out. :wink:

VCURamFan
07-22-2013, 08:29 PM
http://cbsmiami.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-in-cuffs-sanford-pd-video-image.jpg?w=300

Yeah, look at his fat ass. :laugh:
As someone who did not follow this case at all, the before & after pictures of him were really disingenuous. You could tell his attorneys coached him to fatten up & grow his hair out so he'd look "respectable" and "decent" as opposed to that "thug kid". Makes it harder to trust someone's story when they're clearly spinning things from the moment you look at them.

Chuck
07-22-2013, 09:19 PM
As someone who did not follow this case at all, the before & after pictures of him were really disingenuous. You could tell his attorneys coached him to fatten up & grow his hair out so he'd look "respectable" and "decent" as opposed to that "thug kid". Makes it harder to trust someone's story when they're clearly spinning things from the moment you look at them.

Yeah that's horrible.... it's a good thing the media or his attorney's didn't do that with any of those photos of Martin right?



http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh272/atomicsedu/TrayvonMartin.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/atomicsedu/media/TrayvonMartin.jpg.html)

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z414/dvlfn4lf/00u0u_YJmZJtf0ql_600x450_zps8c015f4b.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/dvlfn4lf/media/00u0u_YJmZJtf0ql_600x450_zps8c015f4b.jpg.html)

I meant this IS the Trayvon we've seen all over the news, internet and in the court case right?

Neezar
07-22-2013, 09:36 PM
So now he's wrong to aid car crash victims?

He's neither a saint nor a devil. He's just a guy who was trying to protect his neighborhood and defended himself from an undeserved beating.

Both Z & M could have done things differently. But it happened the way it did and the jury has spoken.

:blink: How did you get that from my post? wth?

Neezar
07-22-2013, 09:42 PM
As someone who did not follow this case at all, the before & after pictures of him were really disingenuous. You could tell his attorneys coached him to fatten up & grow his hair out so he'd look "respectable" and "decent" as opposed to that "thug kid". Makes it harder to trust someone's story when they're clearly spinning things from the moment you look at them.

Zimmerman's keys was found on the ground 50ft from where the shooting took place.

Both voice experts said it was Martin's voice yelling 'stop' and 'help' in the beginning of the 911 call. One said the later was Zimmerman. One said the later could have been Zimmerman. (I wished the judge would have let them testify.)

Zimmerman was training in MMA three times a week. In less than a minute decides he can't get up or defend himself. But he can reach into his pants and pull his gun.

I still believe that Zimmerman tried to detain the boy and the boy punched him.

And when Zimmerman apologized to the family he said he didn't know how old Martin was. He said he thought he was closer to his own age. Really? In the 911 call he told the dispatcher that he was in his teens. And also called him a kid.

Neezar
07-22-2013, 10:06 PM
Like I said, I can't disagree with the jury finding him 'not guilty' with what they were given.

However, one of the jurors has said that they wished they had had something to charge him with for his bad decisions.

VCURamFan
07-22-2013, 11:44 PM
Yeah that's horrible.... it's a good thing the media or his attorney's didn't do that with any of those photos of Martin right?



http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh272/atomicsedu/TrayvonMartin.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/atomicsedu/media/TrayvonMartin.jpg.html)

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z414/dvlfn4lf/00u0u_YJmZJtf0ql_600x450_zps8c015f4b.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/dvlfn4lf/media/00u0u_YJmZJtf0ql_600x450_zps8c015f4b.jpg.html)

I meant this IS the Trayvon we've seen all over the news, internet and in the court case right?
No, I hear ya, Chuck. We only ever saw that black-and-white hoodie pic of Trayvon. The difference between the various pics of Trayvon is very small when compared to the before/afters of George.

flo
07-23-2013, 12:15 AM
As someone who did not follow this case at all, the before & after pictures of him were really disingenuous. You could tell his attorneys coached him to fatten up & grow his hair out so he'd look "respectable" and "decent" as opposed to that "thug kid". Makes it harder to trust someone's story when they're clearly spinning things from the moment you look at them.

The police disagree with you, the detective who interviewed Z said he believed he was telling the truth unless he was a pathological liar.

Actually, his family said he put on all the weight from being in home detention and not getting out to exercise. But maybe they were lying although why on earth they would about such a thing as his weight is beyond me.

Your argument about making him look "respectable" and "decent" as opposed to that "thug kid" holds no water since from day one the pictures released of M were basically his 12-year-old pictures. The AP is still using them.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/trayvonmartin1_zps0d9ffd24.jpg

The prosecution withheld discovery pictures from the defense of M smoking weed and brandishing a gun.

flo
07-23-2013, 12:18 AM
:blink: How did you get that from my post? wth?

By your caption with the grinning-face emoticon "He's a saint!"

Was I wrong to infer sarcasm from that?

flo
07-23-2013, 12:32 AM
Well, one thing I'm thankful for is this thread has brought a lot of needed traffic to the MHF!

:)

VCURamFan
07-23-2013, 01:05 AM
Well, one thing I'm thankful for is this thread has brought a lot of needed traffic to the MHF!

:)
Haha, yeah, just needed me to toss out a social hand grenade & then scurry for cover! :laugh:

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:07 AM
By your caption with the grinning-face emoticon "He's a saint!"

Was I wrong to infer sarcasm from that?

I saw the article. Thought to myself "Now he's a saint!" and laughed. I switched over and posted it here. I find humor in a lot of things others might not find funny. :unsure:

But it being something against Zimmerman or implying that he did wrong by that never crossed my mind.

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:31 AM
The police disagree with you, the detective who interviewed Z said he believed he was telling the truth unless he was a pathological liar.


Where are you getting that? I thought the initial cops and the lead investigator that night, Chris Serino, wanted to charge Zimmerman. The prosecutor (who did not respond to the crime scene or the police dept) denied their request. The police chief was Zimmerman's big backer.

btw, Did you know that Zimmerman's dad is a retired judge? And there is pics of Zimmerman walking around the police dept unattended before. Just like he was at home there. He was no stranger to these guys.

Zimmerman was also charged before with resisting arrest and battery of a cop. Those charges were dropped.

He has also been accused of domestic violence. Nothing came of that but a protection order from a judge.

There were also reports that people from that community had complained to the police dept and to the neighborhood watch about Zimmerman being too aggressive and one man complained that he (Z) followed him home once. (Although, surely if this were true the prosecution would have brought that out.)

flo
07-23-2013, 02:31 AM
I saw the article. Thought to myself "Now he's a saint!" and laughed. I switched over and posted it here. I find humor in a lot of things others might not find funny. :unsure:

But it being something against Zimmerman or implying that he did wrong by that never crossed my mind.

I apologize, Neez. I'm too accustomed to political snark on other sites. :ashamed:

That's the problem with "discussing" on the laptop, it's tough to get a sense of the feelings attached to a comment.

flo
07-23-2013, 02:35 AM
Where are you getting that? I thought the initial cops and the lead investigator that night, Chris Serino, wanted to charge Zimmerman. The prosecutor (who did not respond to the crime scene or the police dept) denied their request. The police chief was Zimmerman's big backer.

btw, Did you know that Zimmerman's dad is a retired judge? And there is pics of Zimmerman walking around the police dept unattended before. Just like he was at home there. He was no stranger to these guys.

Zimmerman was also charged before with resisting arrest and battery of a cop. Those charges were dropped.

He has also been accused of domestic violence. Nothing came of that but a protection order from a judge.

There were also reports that people from that community had complained to the police dept and to the neighborhood watch about Zimmerman being too aggressive and one man complained that he (Z) followed him home once. (Although, surely if this were true the prosecution would have brought that out.)

Neez, I am "getting that" from the same place all my comments are from - trial testimony.

Officer Chris Serino was a prosecution witness but may have helped the defense when he described how Zimmerman, purposely tricked into thinking there was video of the clash, said he had been hoping someone taped it.

“He’s either telling the truth or he’s a pathological liar,” Serino said.

He then added under further questioning that he believed Zimmerman.


link (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19306124-the-zimmerman-trial-halftime-highlights?lite)

The rest of your comments about Z had nothing to do with the trial. Ditto M's pot smoking, gun-brandishing photos, fighting, trouble at school and thefts.

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:40 AM
I apologize, Neez. I'm too accustomed to political snark on other sites. :ashamed:

That's the problem with "discussing" on the laptop, it's tough to get a sense of the feelings attached to a comment.

No need to apologize. :) Most people on here think I'm pissed or at the very least very passionate when I debate something. I try not to get too worked up over this stuff. And definitely not to take it personally. That is why I posted that article and the saint comment. I really needed a laugh out of something in all this. lol

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:48 AM
Neez, I am "getting that" from the same place all my comments are from - trial testimony.



link (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19306124-the-zimmerman-trial-halftime-highlights?lite)

The rest of your comments about Z had nothing to do with the trial. Ditto M's pot smoking, gun-brandishing photos, fighting, trouble at school and thefts.

I agree that pot smoking, teenage pic with gun, etc has nothing to do with trial.
Now Martin's fighting history? Yes, I would think a jury needed to hear that. That could be important to Martin's character in ref to violence. I think Zimmerman's past where it pertains to violence is relevant also.
I would definitely think it would be important if indeed some of the neighbors had filed a complaint against Zimmerman. It wasn't part of the trial but I think it should have been.

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:56 AM
Officer Chris Serino was a prosecution witness but may have helped the defense when he described how Zimmerman, purposely tricked into thinking there was video of the clash, said he had been hoping someone taped it.

“He’s either telling the truth or he’s a pathological liar,” Serino said.

He then added under further questioning that he believed Zimmerman.



SANFORD -- Despite public claims that there wasn’t enough probable cause to make a criminal case in the Trayvon Martin killing, early in the investigation the Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney’s office, the special prosecutor in the case told The Miami Herald on Tuesday.

A Sanford Police incident report shows the case was categorized as “homicide/negligent manslaughter.”

The state attorney’s office held off pending further review, The Miami Herald has learned.

The Miami Gardens high school junior was killed Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer. The 28-year-old insurance underwriter (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#) and college student was never charged, triggering a nationwide crusade on the dead teen’s behalf.

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said: “I don’t know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.’ The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream.”
A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#storylink=cpy


Another twist in the Trayvon Martin case: The chief homicide investigator probing the teenager's shooting wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter, but was overruled, sources tell ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3OVAdkpnzi). Investigator Chris Serino filed an affidavit on the night of the shooting saying he was not convinced by Zimmerman's claims of self-defense, but the state attorney's office decided there was not enough evidence to make an arrest, the sources say.


I guess cops can change their minds, too.

Neezar
07-23-2013, 02:58 AM
That is why in my initial posts I said I believed the prosecution did a shoddy job. But even if all of this came out in the trial, the jury still could find him 'not guilty' because he was getting beaten up at the time.

Bonnie
07-23-2013, 02:59 AM
If Trayvon Martin had been killed in Chicago where young black men are being killed daily, he would have remained nameless and faceless to the rest of the country, the world. Ask yourselves why the media isn't bothering with those killings/deaths. Where is the outrage? Where are the "No Justice, No Peace" hypocrites?!

Why did the media create "white" George Zimmerman; why did they post old pictures of a 12-yr. old Trayvon Martin and an overweight Zimmerman; why did the state prosecutor Angela Corey leave out very important facts when she went before the judge to get that arrest warrant for 2nd degree murder against Zimmerman (btw she's now been indicted); why didn't she turn over to the defense those not-so-innocent pictures they found on Trayvon Martin's cell phone.

Truth and facts are important, something the media and others play fast and loose with to suit their own purpose and agenda as they have in this case regarding both Martin and Zimmerman.

Neezar
07-23-2013, 11:08 AM
If Trayvon Martin had been killed in Chicago where young black men are being killed daily, he would have remained nameless and faceless to the rest of the country, the world. Ask yourselves why the media isn't bothering with those killings/deaths. Where is the outrage? Where are the "No Justice, No Peace" hypocrites?!

Why did the media create "white" George Zimmerman; why did they post old pictures of a 12-yr. old Trayvon Martin and an overweight Zimmerman; why did the state prosecutor Angela Corey leave out very important facts when she went before the judge to get that arrest warrant for 2nd degree murder against Zimmerman (btw she's now been indicted); why didn't she turn over to the defense those not-so-innocent pictures they found on Trayvon Martin's cell phone.

Truth and facts are important, something the media and others play fast and loose with to suit their own purpose and agenda as they have in this case regarding both Martin and Zimmerman.

That's true.

And regardless of what happened that night, I feel sorry for Zimmerman. I can't imagine where he will go and how he will ever live in peace. :sad:

VCURamFan
07-23-2013, 11:12 AM
I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7662917376/h8DB4D7C0/

flo
07-23-2013, 01:11 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7662917376/h8DB4D7C0/

LMAO!!! Perfect!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:



I'll never forget the look on his face when they announced the OJ verdict...

rearnakedchoke
07-23-2013, 01:39 PM
So now he's wrong to aid car crash victims?

He's neither a saint nor a devil. He's just a guy who was trying to protect his neighborhood and defended himself from an undeserved beating.

Both Z & M could have done things differently. But it happened the way it did and the jury has spoken.

let me ask you ... i know its all hypothetical .. but if things had turned out differently that night, and trayvon ended up shooting zimmerman with his own gun, what do you think would have happened to trayvon .. i think he would have been put on trial as an adult and be in jail ... we will never know, but that is what i think ...

i think this sets a bad precidence for the future .. it ok to act like a tough guy, start a fight and then shoot someone in self defense ..

VCURamFan
07-23-2013, 02:55 PM
let me ask you ... i know its all hypothetical .. but if things had turned out differently that night, and trayvon ended up shooting zimmerman with his own gun, what do you think would have happened to trayvon .. i think he would have been put on trial as an adult and be in jail ... we will never know, but that is what i think ...

i think this sets a bad precidence for the future .. it ok to act like a tough guy, start a fight and then shoot someone in self defense ..
Well yes, but because that's the law, not because of the latent racism you're implying (or alluding?).

Actually, thinking about the situation, if they had gotten in the altercation & Martin ended up shooting Zimmerman, it presumably would have been with Zimmerman's own gun, which would have made it really easy for him to make the case it was self-defense. Zimmerman wouldn't have been able to tell his side of the story (I was trying to keep an eye on him & protect my community), and Martin could say "This guy was tailing me, the cops told him to stop but he didn't, he got out of the car & came after me, I saw his gun & was afraid for my life so I fought back & used his own gun to keep him from killing me."

I think we'd be in pretty much the same situation.

rearnakedchoke
07-23-2013, 06:55 PM
Well yes, but because that's the law, not because of the latent racism you're implying (or alluding?).

Actually, thinking about the situation, if they had gotten in the altercation & Martin ended up shooting Zimmerman, it presumably would have been with Zimmerman's own gun, which would have made it really easy for him to make the case it was self-defense. Zimmerman wouldn't have been able to tell his side of the story (I was trying to keep an eye on him & protect my community), and Martin could say "This guy was tailing me, the cops told him to stop but he didn't, he got out of the car & came after me, I saw his gun & was afraid for my life so I fought back & used his own gun to keep him from killing me."

I think we'd be in pretty much the same situation.

imo i don't think we'd be in pretty much the same situation ... right or wrong, it would be easier to paint a more incriminating picture of a 17 year old walking in the rain with a hoodie ... who's been caught for smoking weed in the past etc .. i mean, what else would he be doing at that time of night in the rain ...

VCURamFan
07-23-2013, 08:12 PM
imo i don't think we'd be in pretty much the same situation ... right or wrong, it would be easier to paint a more incriminating picture of a 17 year old walking in the rain with a hoodie ... who's been caught for smoking weed in the past etc .. i mean, what else would he be doing at that time of night in the rain ...
Yeah, but we'd still be split straight down the same race lines. Except that the cries of guilty/not guilty would just jump sides of the aisle.

rearnakedchoke
07-23-2013, 08:35 PM
Yeah, but we'd still be split straight down the same race lines. Except that the cries of guilty/not guilty would just jump sides of the aisle.

good call ben ... always have a good take on things ... no bs, straight talk ... i like that ..

Bonnie
07-23-2013, 08:50 PM
LMAO!!! Perfect!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I'll never forget the look on his face when they announced the OJ verdict...

I won't either. I felt like he must have come to the conclusion at some point in the trial that his friend had done these horrific killings.

Bonnie
07-23-2013, 09:08 PM
Well yes, but because that's the law, not because of the latent racism you're implying (or alluding?).

Actually, thinking about the situation, if they had gotten in the altercation & Martin ended up shooting Zimmerman, it presumably would have been with Zimmerman's own gun, which would have made it really easy for him to make the case it was self-defense. Zimmerman wouldn't have been able to tell his side of the story (I was trying to keep an eye on him & protect my community), and Martin could say "This guy was tailing me, the cops told him to stop but he didn't, he got out of the car & came after me, I saw his gun & was afraid for my life so I fought back & used his own gun to keep him from killing me."

I think we'd be in pretty much the same situation.

If Trayvon had ended up killing Zimmerman, and told the cops he was defending himself, it would have ended there, I truly believe that. The same people who want to keep going after Zimmerman now would be saying the same thing, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, and they'd say Trayvon was perfectly justified in defending himself. It would have never seen the light of day in the media, I doubt we would have ever known anything about it.

Chuck
07-25-2013, 09:45 PM
let me ask you ... i know its all hypothetical .. but if things had turned out differently that night, and trayvon ended up shooting zimmerman with his own gun, what do you think would have happened to trayvon .. i think he would have been put on trial as an adult and be in jail ... we will never know, but that is what i think ...

i think this sets a bad precidence for the future .. it ok to act like a tough guy, start a fight and then shoot someone in self defense ..

There isn't any evidence to support that claim. The evidence actually contradicts what you're saying here.

Neezar
07-27-2013, 04:04 AM
:rolleyes:

Neezar
07-27-2013, 04:05 AM
Why is this thread in the politics section? :unsure-1:

VCURamFan
07-27-2013, 05:19 AM
Why is this thread in the politics section? :unsure-1:
Because this was a political subject from the get-go. I'm not trying to say that people here are making their decisions based political party, but the main-stream media & general public have split quite nicely down party-lines.

rearnakedchoke
09-10-2013, 06:13 PM
There isn't any evidence to support that claim. The evidence actually contradicts what you're saying here.

well, seems like the tough guy act came up again .. this time threatening his wife and father in law with a gun ... since it is domestic, i don't know why the wife was able to not press charges ... thought they had to charge in the instance ...

VCURamFan
09-10-2013, 07:23 PM
well, seems like the tough guy act came up again .. this time threatening his wife and father in law with a gun ... since it is domestic, i don't know why the wife was able to not press charges ... thought they had to charge in the instance ...
It's not domestic violence because she's separated from him & had changed her address, meaning that was no longer her domicile & therefore it can't be domestic violence. Also, she later admitted that she never saw a gun & the police on the scene said he didn't have a gun on him & that no gun was found at the house, either.

That being said, there was pushing & shoving, but that's (unfortunately) to be expected from many a divorce situation & isn't unique to Zimmerman.

Bonnie
09-11-2013, 12:47 AM
It's not domestic violence because she's separated from him & had changed her address, meaning that was no longer her domicile & therefore it can't be domestic violence. Also, she later admitted that she never saw a gun & the police on the scene said he didn't have a gun on him & that no gun was found at the house, either.

That being said, there was pushing & shoving, but that's (unfortunately) to be expected from many a divorce situation & isn't unique to Zimmerman.

I think the shoving was between Zimmerman and his father-in-law. Supposedly the wife and her father showed up at the house and weren't supposed to be there. Also, on the 911 tape they were playing, you hear her father tell her that there is a woman in the house. This might be a case of jealous vindictiveness on the wife's part. The police are supposed to be looking at her damaged iPad to see if there is any video showing what happened.

You'd think this woman would have learned her lesson about lying after she lied to the court about their finances.

Neezar
10-31-2013, 02:47 PM
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/50bcf76ceab8ea5934000017-650-870/george-zimmerman.jpg




http://raymondpronk.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/george_zimmerman.jpg

Nice healing skills on the nose. You can barely see the swelling by the time he gets to the police station. :laugh:

Neezar
10-31-2013, 02:50 PM
I shall save someone some time.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc91/pmtts/thread_resurrection.gif
lol

Neezar
11-21-2013, 12:27 AM
http://cashcowcouple.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/shocking-news-2.jpg


George Zimmerman charged with felony after allegedly pointing gun at girlfriend

(CNN) -- George Zimmerman was charged Monday with felony aggravated assault after allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend, according to Dennis Lemma, chief deputy with the Seminole County, Florida, Sheriff's Office.

Zimmerman, who was acquitted earlier this year of murdering teenager Trayvon Martin, was arrested after the incident at the home of Samantha Scheibe, Lemma said. He also was charged with two misdemeanors -- domestic violence battery and criminal mischief -- in connection with the same incident, Lemma said.

Zimmerman is being held in jail without bail and will make his first appearance in front of a judge Tuesday at 1:30 p.m. ET.
Differing 911 calls
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.e/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif

(http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/justice/florida-george-zimmerman-arrest/#)



http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/131118162640-zimmerman-1118-story-body.jpg
Deputy: Zimmerman barricaded door


According to a police report on the incident, Scheibe said that after an argument Zimmerman broke a table with a shotgun then pointed it at her "for a minute."
Scheibe called 911 at 12:30 E.T., Lemma said.

On a 911 call recording released by police, a woman can be heard telling authorities: "He's inside my house breaking all my (things) because I asked him to leave."

The woman then says to someone at the house, "I'm doing this again? You just broke my glass table. You just broke my sunglasses and you put your gun in my freaking face and told me to get the (expletive) out."

A man is heard telling her to calm down, but then she tells the dispatcher that the man just pushed her out of the house and locked the door.
On a separate 911 call, a man calls to report that his girlfriend was "for lack of a better term, going crazy on me" and throwing his things out. The caller says the woman is outside with police.

When asked why he is calling, the man says, "I just want everyone to know the truth."

He says he never pulled a firearm and that it is in a bag, locked. He claims she was the one who broke the table.

When deputies arrived at the house, Scheibe gave them a key. When they pushed open the door -- which was blocked by several small pieces of furniture -- they found Zimmerman, who was sitting and unarmed, Lemma said. He was passive and cooperative, Lemma said.

The sheriff's office was seeking a search warrant to look for two guns deputies believed were inside the home, he said. According to the police report, Zimmerman had locked up the guns before police arrived.

Bonnie
11-21-2013, 01:35 AM
Something is obviously not right with this guy. Acquitted of murder just a few months ago and now this...seriously. :wacko:

TexasRN
11-21-2013, 12:17 PM
Yeah, he's gone off the deep end. He needs serious counseling. He also needs to stop dating around. I doubt he is divorced yet and with all of his other drama in life he needs to concentrate on his own sanity and issues before bringing someone else into his life. What a mess. I bet he doesn't even see the role he plays in the craziness that goes on in his life. Somehow people like that never think THEY are the problem.


~Amy

rearnakedchoke
11-21-2013, 12:59 PM
dude must think he is untouchable now ... or he always did ... psychopath or sociopath, take your pick!

Bonnie
11-21-2013, 06:18 PM
Yeah, he's gone off the deep end. He needs serious counseling. He also needs to stop dating around. I doubt he is divorced yet and with all of his other drama in life he needs to concentrate on his own sanity and issues before bringing someone else into his life. What a mess. I bet he doesn't even see the role he plays in the craziness that goes on in his life. Somehow people like that never think THEY are the problem.


~Amy

I agree with your thoughts, Amy. I think all this is a great big **WARNING** sign. Hope he gets help before something else tragic happens. :unsure:

County Mike
11-21-2013, 06:27 PM
He may be making some bad decisions now, but I still think he was justified in shooting Trayvon.

rearnakedchoke
11-21-2013, 07:02 PM
He may be making some bad decisions now, but I still think he was justified in shooting Trayvon.

yeah true .. the first shootings are always justified ... its the ones afterward that should be taken for what they are worth ...

County Mike
11-21-2013, 07:51 PM
There's a lot being said now that the girlfriend lied about it. She used specific language while on the 911 call to make it seem like he was threatening her. In reality, he was trying to break up with her. First she lied about being pregnant but when that didn't work she pulled this stunt.

We'll see what the truth is but dude is seriously finding himself in bad situations. Not sure if put himself in them or not.

MattHughesRocks
11-21-2013, 08:55 PM
I think this guy bit off more then he could chew ( that's why he ended up with injuries himself) when he was hunting down that black kid and bottom line, he shot him unnecessarily and the kid died.
Since he's been out of jail I think he's living with the demons of his mistakes and he's doomed to live the rest of his life just as he's living right now until he makes things right.
And seriously, what a stupid girl for getting hooked up with that fat mess at this time in his life :blink: He has got to be one of the most unattractive men on the planet right now and I mean by his life and his looks :laugh:

TexasRN
11-22-2013, 10:23 AM
He may be making some bad decisions now, but I still think he was justified in shooting Trayvon.

I agree with this. I think he has some sort of PTSD and needs to get away from everything and settle into some counselling or he'll end up in prison.


~Amy

Neezar
11-22-2013, 12:24 PM
I think this guy bit off more then he could chew ( that's why he ended up with injuries himself) when he was hunting down that black kid and bottom line, he shot him unnecessarily and the kid died.
Since he's been out of jail I think he's living with the demons of his mistakes and he's doomed to live the rest of his life just as he's living right now until he makes things right.
And seriously, what a stupid girl for getting hooked up with that fat mess at this time in his life :blink: He has got to be one of the most unattractive men on the planet right now and I mean by his life and his looks :laugh:

:laugh: Michelle, I love how you just cut to the core.

rearnakedchoke
11-22-2013, 01:39 PM
I agree with this. I think he has some sort of PTSD and needs to get away from everything and settle into some counselling or he'll end up in prison.


~Amy

the more and more that comes out, to me it sounds like what a lot of people thought .. he went looking to get into an altercation just so he could be a tough guy and shoot someone ... but he'll get his .. hope he does sometime just so he can get a little jail house justice!

County Mike
11-22-2013, 01:51 PM
I'm not so sure about that. If he was looking for trouble, wouldn't he have had his gun already out of the holster? Why keep it in the holster until he's on the ground being pounded if he was hoping to shoot the kid? Sounds to me like he was tired of people stealing from his neighborhood and wanted to make sure this one got caught, so he followed. The kid didn't like being followed and jumped him.

The pressure of the trial, death threats, etc. may have made him a little crazy since then, but I still don't think he went looking for trouble in the Trayvon case.

rearnakedchoke
11-22-2013, 02:04 PM
I'm not so sure about that. If he was looking for trouble, wouldn't he have had his gun already out of the holster? Why keep it in the holster until he's on the ground being pounded if he was hoping to shoot the kid? Sounds to me like he was tired of people stealing from his neighborhood and wanted to make sure this one got caught, so he followed. The kid didn't like being followed and jumped him.

The pressure of the trial, death threats, etc. may have made him a little crazy since then, but I still don't think he went looking for trouble in the Trayvon case.

well because he knew he couldn't just walk around with his gun in his hand and get away with it ... he did the right thing and didn't leave any witnesses as to why the altercation started ... dude's a nut job and he'll get what he deserves ...

TexasRN
11-22-2013, 02:46 PM
There's a lot being said now that the girlfriend lied about it. She used specific language while on the 911 call to make it seem like he was threatening her. In reality, he was trying to break up with her. First she lied about being pregnant but when that didn't work she pulled this stunt.

We'll see what the truth is but dude is seriously finding himself in bad situations. Not sure if put himself in them or not.

Sounds like his daddy never taught him how to spot "crazy eyes." I've had long conversations with my son about staying away from the whack job women out there.


~Amy

MattHughesRocks
11-22-2013, 03:02 PM
I don't have time for fluff. I'm busy!

:laugh: Michelle, I love how you just cut to the core.

VCURamFan
11-22-2013, 05:44 PM
Sounds like his daddy never taught him how to spot "crazy eyes." I've had long conversations with my son about staying away from the whack job women out there.


~Amy
You are an awesome mother! :happydancing:

County Mike
12-09-2013, 11:46 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/09/justice/george-zimmerman-girlfriend/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Now she says he didn't threaten her. The police "misinterpreted" what she was saying. He's not bad, people are just out to get him.

TexasRN
12-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Yep, crazy women will ruin your life. Georgie poo needs to just stop dating for a long while and get his life together. Any woman who would date him right now is up to no good anyway.


~Amy

flo
12-12-2013, 12:33 AM
Yep, crazy women will ruin your life. Georgie poo needs to just stop dating for a long while and get his life together. Any woman who would date him right now is up to no good anyway.


~Amy


Agree 100%.

County Mike
12-12-2013, 02:11 AM
Also agreed.

Crazy women! Great in bed but they'll ruin your life.

MattHughesRocks
12-12-2013, 03:53 AM
Same can be said for men.


Also agreed.

Crazy women! Great in bed but they'll ruin your life.

rearnakedchoke
02-16-2014, 01:21 AM
at least they got it somewhat right in the "loud music" case ... this time looks like the tough guy is gonna do some time in the can ... he may not have to listen to loud music in the pen, so he is gonna have to settle for some whispers in his ear while he is getting some jailhouse love!